politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New study finds Brits struggling under the lockdown although 8
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In my somewhat of of date experience of buying Home Insurance and working from home, the touchstone seemed to be whether your work required people to come and visit you. Sometimes there was a de minimus factor stated, sometimes not.Alistair said:One issue with a mass movement to "work from home" is that many people's home insurance doesn't cover long term work from home.
Lots do but lots don't.
Friend of mine whose husband started to work from home for an international's company had to have an inspection as to whether the place was 'safe'. The inspector was, apparently, a woman, and my friend said she was hostile all the time 'that woman' was inspecting her home!0 -
Business savings appears an under mentioned aspect of this. Using our home wifi/heating/electricity costs money to employees although many will save on not commuting.NickPalmer said:
You're entitled to your view but it's a small minority at the moment - most people approve of the lockdown and if anything want it to be stricter.Luckyguy1983 said:
Doctors can't run the country. For the same reason that haberdashers or butchers can't run it. We end up with a country that is distorted to cater to a single aim. They will need to be told gently to either solve this and let us get back to normal, or just do one and let us get back to normal at some point very soon.
On deaths (cheery subject that it is), Ministers should also consider the unpleasant nature and frequent after-effects of the illness. I'm mildly higher risk as I'm 70. If there was merely a 5% risk of dying as I went about my business, i'd probably accept it. But a high probability of catching it and having a horrible illness, plus a 5% chance of dying, no thanks.
An interesting phenomenon that we're discussing in my job is that a significant proportion of the staff positively prefer working from home (no commuting, pleasant environment) and seem to be almost as effective in our (office) jobs. Most would like to be able to get out more in their free time, but we're drawing the conclusion that if and when things return to quasi-normality, we may switch from "you can work at home 1 day a week if you want to" (the current policy for most) to "we encourage you to work 1-2 days a week at home"). That facilitates hot-desking so there are savings to be had in office space as well as satisfaction for individuals.0 -
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:0 -
We had to turn down some home insurance as they wouldn't cover work from home where you brought equipment (I. E. Work Laptop) home.Pulpstar said:
My partner has been WFH since forever. On the home insurance front I've only ever seen 'running a business' from home as potentially affecting home insurance and on the comparison sites. You're not running a business from home if you're working from home.Alistair said:One issue with a mass movement to "work from home" is that many people's home insurance doesn't cover long term work from home.
Lots do but lots don't.0 -
The man is bonkers. I cannot imagine why he thinks they even want a policy of mass euthanasia.isam said:1 -
They'll be furious when their tenants can't afford the rent.DecrepiterJohnL said:
It fits my prejudices that the Telegraph is read by people owning and running businesses, who habitually vote Conservative, and who are losing money.Pulpstar said:The Telegraph really does seem the most desperate of anyone out there to end the lockdown.
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Those figures only work if you believe China's numbers of course...isam said:1 -
The book is fantastic and the advice timeless. I can thoroughly recommend it to any software engineer on here.Sandpit said:
Yep, it seems that the legacy systems have had a much longer legacy that a lot of people thought in the '90s. Glass had the foresight to see it.Alistair said:
Robert Glass wrote a book called "Facts and Fallacies of Software Engineering" around the turn of the millenium. In Fact 30 he pointed out that COBOL is a hardy perennial of a language and would be sticking around for years to come and that if you looked at job postings the number requesting COBOL had been increasing not decreasing.Sandpit said:
Father of a friend of mine is a COBOL programmer, still working into his 70s at over a grand a day.rottenborough said:
When I graduated in comp sci in mid 80s, COBOL was still being taught on the sister degree (Data Processing) and there were still jobs around asking for it. I'm guessing that continued into the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Isn’t that the computer equivalent of calling for Sumerian speakers?Jonathan said:https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/coronavirus-cobol-programmers-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
Calling COBOL programmers
Wish I'd gone down that route now, but we were all told it was a dead language 25 years ago!
Maybe I should change my lockdown PMP course for a COBOL course instead?
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Talking of outdated work, I remember hearing a year or two ago that medieval shoes (soft leather made to fit using historically authentic techniques) have a waiting lists of months if not years and cost a small fortune.0
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we are not even getting warm during the day yetkle4 said:
Indeed. The last 3 days in particular have been thr arrival of summer in the south west. Horribly hot at night.Theuniondivvie said:
Not weather?! Jeezo, that goes to show the weather variations in a small(ish) island. Centra! heating still burning up £s here.state_go_away said:If i was answering that survey I would say that i dont really support the level of lockdown, am more sad (rather than depressed) , having less sleep (although this may just be the hot weather) , food ok, financial worries ok (although pension taken a hammering and do worry for the country and people as a whole), booze ok ,argung (apart from on here!) ok
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Ha, I used to be a COBOL programmer. Felt like it was going nowhere - all the jobs getting offshored - and took a masters in town planning. Now moved on from that too. Maybe time to go back to COBOL if suddenly we're short of programmers! Though it's not exactly difficult.OldKingCole said:
Like Latin?Alistair said:
Robert Glass wrote a book called "Facts and Fallacies of Software Engineering" around the turn of the millenium. In Fact 30 he pointed out that COBOL is a hardy perennial of a language and would be sticking around for years to come and that if you looked at job postings the number requesting COBOL had been increasing not decreasing.Sandpit said:
Father of a friend of mine is a COBOL programmer, still working into his 70s at over a grand a day.rottenborough said:
When I graduated in comp sci in mid 80s, COBOL was still being taught on the sister degree (Data Processing) and there were still jobs around asking for it. I'm guessing that continued into the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Isn’t that the computer equivalent of calling for Sumerian speakers?Jonathan said:https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/coronavirus-cobol-programmers-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
Calling COBOL programmers
Wish I'd gone down that route now, but we were all told it was a dead language 25 years ago!1 -
I propose that the lockdown be extended to 1 year. For opinion column journalists of all stripes.Pulpstar said:The Telegraph really does seem the most desperate of anyone out there to end the lockdown.
This will protect the general public from them. Their progression to complete inanity will provide their papers with column inches....
All those who approve, say aye?1 -
Indeed WFH would intuitively (if you don't have home business risks) lower the risk to.the insurance company not increase it I'd have thought. I believe most risk occurs when a property is unoccupied.Pulpstar said:
My partner has been WFH since forever. On the home insurance front I've only ever seen 'running a business' from home as potentially affecting home insurance and on the comparison sites. You're not running a business from home if you're working from home.Alistair said:One issue with a mass movement to "work from home" is that many people's home insurance doesn't cover long term work from home.
Lots do but lots don't.0 -
How old are they, Malc? Our youngest (6) and oldest (31), both female, want to give Grannie a cuddle. The ones in the middle, not so much.malcolmg said:
Not a bad thing and if anybody ever said anything you can safely say you have no alternative. We have not seen our grandkids for months now apart from skype and it is not pleasant.OldKingCole said:
We could probably, but he wants to look after his Grannie.malcolmg said:
Not unless you can get someone else to do it for youOldKingCole said:Thinking about Robert Jenrick's 'faux pas', Grandson 1 drove 40 miles yesterday to bring us a supermarket order. Does it about every 10 days. He puts the shopping on the front doorstep, then comes round and stands outside a window and we chat.
Don't want to discourage him, but should we?
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Amazing. One thing I am sick and tired of at the moment is certainty.isam said:1 -
No one is perfect I guess.TGOHF666 said:Starmer needs his bumps felt.
https://twitter.com/sirbasilbrush/status/1248531501773398017?s=210 -
I did thumb through a friend's copy a few years ago.Alistair said:
The book is fantastic and the advice timeless. I can thoroughly recommend it to any software engineer on here.Sandpit said:
Yep, it seems that the legacy systems have had a much longer legacy that a lot of people thought in the '90s. Glass had the foresight to see it.Alistair said:
Robert Glass wrote a book called "Facts and Fallacies of Software Engineering" around the turn of the millenium. In Fact 30 he pointed out that COBOL is a hardy perennial of a language and would be sticking around for years to come and that if you looked at job postings the number requesting COBOL had been increasing not decreasing.Sandpit said:
Father of a friend of mine is a COBOL programmer, still working into his 70s at over a grand a day.rottenborough said:
When I graduated in comp sci in mid 80s, COBOL was still being taught on the sister degree (Data Processing) and there were still jobs around asking for it. I'm guessing that continued into the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Isn’t that the computer equivalent of calling for Sumerian speakers?Jonathan said:https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/coronavirus-cobol-programmers-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
Calling COBOL programmers
Wish I'd gone down that route now, but we were all told it was a dead language 25 years ago!
Maybe I should change my lockdown PMP course for a COBOL course instead?
20 quid for Kindle version, might as well read it again...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facts-Fallacies-Software-Engineering-Development/dp/0321117425/0 -
It certainly seems "Sir" Kier has picked just about the most remain-centric shadow cabinet he possibly can.TGOHF666 said:Starmer needs his bumps felt.
https://twitter.com/sirbasilbrush/status/1248531501773398017?s=21
Could it be that Starmer is planning to run a REJOIN manifesto in 2024?
You all know what I think about the Tories chances in 2024 but if Labour are mad enough to fight the election on REJOIN that's the one thing that could well see them lose...1 -
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/owner-edinburghs-bross-bagels-tells-shock-after-landlord-brands-her-request-get-rent-break-typical-jewish-behaviour-2534655Pulpstar said:
They'll be furious when their tenants can't afford the rent.DecrepiterJohnL said:
It fits my prejudices that the Telegraph is read by people owning and running businesses, who habitually vote Conservative, and who are losing money.Pulpstar said:The Telegraph really does seem the most desperate of anyone out there to end the lockdown.
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Good to see you on this morning Frank? Did you get medical advice about your breathlessness the other day?Frank_Booth said:
Amazing. One thing I am sick and tired of at the moment is certainty.isam said:0 -
At least some SNP MPs tend to palm off a lot of enquiries on to their MSP colleagues on the basis that most enquiries are for devolved matters.ydoethur said:
A lot of English MPs at least have office functions in London rather than their constituencies.malcolmg said:
Morning Ydoethur, have you been on the sherry. Why would Scottish staff working in MP's offices be any different from those elsewhere in the country. They have offices in their constituencies like everyone else, barking.ydoethur said:
Serious question. Are most SNP MPs’ staff in Scotland rather than London anyway?Philip_Thompson said:
It's entirely possible that the SNP have collectively decided that they won't claim these funds.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would not surprise me as the SNP MPs may well have been told to observe this strictly, whereas the Tories will not have. The SNP got in trouble previously by claiming that all their payrises (they argued against the payrises) would go to charity. No money has ever been recorded going to charity and it is an awkward question that keeps being asked. This time they will have been very much out to avoid a repeat, and unless they need the 10,000, good for them not taking it.Philip_Thompson said:
No source. Smells like bovine manure.malcolmg said:Surprise Surprise, as I said yesterday , Tories filling their boots.
THE BLACK SALTIRE#FBSI
·
11m
Hearing that none of the SNP Mps took the £10,000 offered to them for working at home. Jeremy Corbyn also refused.
The Only Tory not to take it was surprisingly Jacob Rees Mogg
Thank you to my source I am sure this will clarified shortly
If so they will already have been remote working and here will have been less need to adapt their processes.
This ten grand is to allow them to adapt that model so they can work remotely - e.g. pay for printing on private printers.
I was wondering if the SNP do it differently.1 -
Most house insurance policies allow you to do clerical work at home. They don't want you to setup a workshop on the standard policy.Pulpstar said:
My partner has been WFH since forever. On the home insurance front I've only ever seen 'running a business' from home as potentially affecting home insurance and on the comparison sites. You're not running a business from home if you're working from home.Alistair said:One issue with a mass movement to "work from home" is that many people's home insurance doesn't cover long term work from home.
Lots do but lots don't.1 -
Many junior staff find it more effective because the senior staff can't breathe on their shoulders every 10 seconds with minor or inane stuff.....kle4 said:
I've found senior people in particular have been to be more effective because they actually have time to do things personally not bothered by minor or innane stuff, so can more effectively lead their core staff.NickPalmer said:
You're entitled to your view but it's a small minority at the moment - most people approve of the lockdown and if anything want it to be stricter.Luckyguy1983 said:
Doctors can't run the country. For the same reason that haberdashers or butchers can't run it. We end up with a country that is distorted to cater to a single aim. They will need to be told gently to either solve this and let us get back to normal, or just do one and let us get back to normal at some point very soon.
On deaths (cheery subject that it is), Ministers should also consider the unpleasant nature and frequent after-effects of the illness. I'm mildly higher risk as I'm 70. If there was merely a 5% risk of dying as I went about my business, i'd probably accept it. But a high probability of catching it and having a horrible illness, plus a 5% chance of dying, no thanks.
An interesting phenomenon that we're discussing in my job is that a significant proportion of the staff positively prefer working from home (no commuting, pleasant environment) and seem to be almost as effective in our (office) jobs. Most would like to be able to get out more in their free time, but we're drawing the conclusion that if and when things return to quasi-normality, we may switch from "you can work at home 1 day a week if you want to" (the current policy for most) to "we encourage you to work 1-2 days a week at home"). That facilitates hot-desking so there are savings to be had in office space as well as satisfaction for individuals.
What's that saying about the tree of monkeys?2 -
If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=200 -
Thats a fair point actually, I was look at it a bit backward given many of the senior people are control freaks. Effectiveness may have been forced upon them not seized .Malmesbury said:
Many junior staff find it more effective because the senior staff can't breathe on their shoulders every 10 seconds with minor or inane stuff.....kle4 said:
I've found senior people in particular have been to be more effective because they actually have time to do things personally not bothered by minor or innane stuff, so can more effectively lead their core staff.NickPalmer said:
⁷Luckyguy1983 said:
Doctors can't run the country. For the same reason that haberdashers or butchers can't run it. We end up with a country that is distorted to cater to a single aim. They will need to be told gently to either solve this and let us get back to normal, or just do one and let us get back to normal at some point very soon.
You're entitled to your view but it's a small minority at the moment - most people approve of the lockdown and if anything want it to be stricter.
On deaths (cheery subject that it is), Ministers should also consider the unpleasant nature and frequent after-effects of the illness. I'm mildly higher risk as I'm 70. If there was merely a 5% risk of dying as I went about my business, i'd probably accept it. But a high probability of catching it and having a horrible illness, plus a 5% chance of dying, no thanks.
An interesting phenomenon that we're discussing in my job is that a significant proportion of the staff positively prefer working from home (no commuting, pleasant environment) and seem to be almost as effective in our (office) jobs. Most would like to be able to get out more in their free time, but we're drawing the conclusion that if and when things return to quasi-normality, we may switch from "you can work at home 1 day a week if you want to" (the current policy for most) to "we encourage you to work 1-2 days a week at home"). That facilitates hot-desking so there are savings to be had in office space as well as satisfaction for individuals.
What's that saying about the tree of monkeys?
And I dont actually know the saying about the tree of monkeys.0 -
Always leading Burgessian , the sheep will eventually follow their principled lead NOT. The southerners will be gorging at the public trough whilst our fine lads and lassies manage their affairs effectively and well under budget.Burgessian said:
Yep. MP I know of employs about 4 people doing casework - not all full-time. But if working from home all will presumably need parliament-approved laptops etc. if they are to continue providing a service. Anecdotally the enquiries from constituents have significantly increased. Very generous of all those SNP MPs to fund this extra expense out of their own pockets. Cough.JonathanD said:
The £10,000 is for the MPs office activities - ie staff costs. It will be needed so that case-workers in MPs office are able to set up to work from home and deal with constituency complaints / issues.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would not surprise me as the SNP MPs may well have been told to observe this strictly, whereas the Tories will not have. The SNP got in trouble previously by claiming that all their payrises (they argued against the payrises) would go to charity. No money has ever been recorded going to charity and it is an awkward question that keeps being asked. This time they will have been very much out to avoid a repeat, and unless they need the 10,000, good for them not taking it.Philip_Thompson said:
No source. Smells like bovine manure.malcolmg said:Surprise Surprise, as I said yesterday , Tories filling their boots.
THE BLACK SALTIRE#FBSI
·
11m
Hearing that none of the SNP Mps took the £10,000 offered to them for working at home. Jeremy Corbyn also refused.
The Only Tory not to take it was surprisingly Jacob Rees Mogg
Thank you to my source I am sure this will clarified shortly
If SNP MPs aren't planning on using the money then I guess they aren't planning on doing any work for their constituents during this period. Probably makes sense as most day to day matters are devolved to the Scottish parliament, so individuals in a Scottish constituency will be contacting their MSP first rather than MP.0 -
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:0 -
OKC, 9 and 15, both boys. Would be great for their Gran to get a cuddle at this point but impossible under the circumstances.OldKingCole said:
How old are they, Malc? Our youngest (6) and oldest (31), both female, want to give Grannie a cuddle. The ones in the middle, not so much.malcolmg said:
Not a bad thing and if anybody ever said anything you can safely say you have no alternative. We have not seen our grandkids for months now apart from skype and it is not pleasant.OldKingCole said:
We could probably, but he wants to look after his Grannie.malcolmg said:
Not unless you can get someone else to do it for youOldKingCole said:Thinking about Robert Jenrick's 'faux pas', Grandson 1 drove 40 miles yesterday to bring us a supermarket order. Does it about every 10 days. He puts the shopping on the front doorstep, then comes round and stands outside a window and we chat.
Don't want to discourage him, but should we?2 -
The C-Levels will be noticing the layers of management, who send emails and have meetings all day, don't actually contribute anything except getting in the way of those who do the work.kle4 said:
Thats a fair point actually, I was look at it a bit backward given many of the senior people are control freaks. Effectiveness may have been forced upon them not seized .Malmesbury said:
Many junior staff find it more effective because the senior staff can't breathe on their shoulders every 10 seconds with minor or inane stuff.....kle4 said:
I've found senior people in particular have been to be more effective because they actually have time to do things personally not bothered by minor or innane stuff, so can more effectively lead their core staff.NickPalmer said:
⁷Luckyguy1983 said:
Doctors can't run the country. For the same reason that haberdashers or butchers can't run it. We end up with a country that is distorted to cater to a single aim. They will need to be told gently to either solve this and let us get back to normal, or just do one and let us get back to normal at some point very soon.
You're entitled to your view but it's a small minority at the moment - most people approve of the lockdown and if anything want it to be stricter.
On deaths (cheery subject that it is), Ministers should also consider the unpleasant nature and frequent after-effects of the illness. I'm mildly higher risk as I'm 70. If there was merely a 5% risk of dying as I went about my business, i'd probably accept it. But a high probability of catching it and having a horrible illness, plus a 5% chance of dying, no thanks.
An interesting phenomenon that we're discussing in my job is that a significant proportion of the staff positively prefer working from home (no commuting, pleasant environment) and seem to be almost as effective in our (office) jobs. Most would like to be able to get out more in their free time, but we're drawing the conclusion that if and when things return to quasi-normality, we may switch from "you can work at home 1 day a week if you want to" (the current policy for most) to "we encourage you to work 1-2 days a week at home"). That facilitates hot-desking so there are savings to be had in office space as well as satisfaction for individuals.
What's that saying about the tree of monkeys?
And I dont actually know the saying about the tree of monkeys.0 -
I've recently had a video consultation with a GP using the NHSAttend facility. Worked fine. No need to actually attend. Saved everyone's time. But, obviously, only works if you don't need to be physically prodded.Cookie said:Artice in the Telegraph this morning by Fraser Nelson saying that 1) government surprised at how obedient Brits had been in obeying the lockdown, and that consequently the economy is suffering far more than expected, and as a result 2) models 150,000 deaths as a result of lockdown (that includes both deaths due to being poorer and deaths due to the NHS and individuals choosing to delay things like vaccinations, checking of lumps etc.
Must admit, there is a lump on the back of my head I keep meaning to get checked out but won't be doing under current circumstances!0 -
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:1 -
So, have we re-conquered France? If so, need to notify Windsor. The Queen will need to put the bit about the French domains back in her titles.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:0 -
That is totally wrongTheuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=200 -
He's a shadow minister only I thinkkle4 said:
No one is perfect I guess.TGOHF666 said:Starmer needs his bumps felt.
https://twitter.com/sirbasilbrush/status/1248531501773398017?s=210 -
Well you give us a video then to show us how it is done.malcolmg said:
That is totally wrongTheuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=201 -
On working locations. It's one thing to ask your people to work from home, it's another to say we're moving you to a disused warehouse in Milton Keynes. The people will all just leave.
I don't foresee a huge change in the working dynamic, if anything people are feeling very isolated at home and most of my colleagues are looking forwards to being back in office. Companies aren't going to see any large savings from this.1 -
Gordon b&^%$y Bennett! Glad golf isn't allowed at the moment; put anyone off their stroke!malcolmg said:
That is totally wrongTheuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=200 -
Thanks for asking. Not exactly breathlessness but discomfort breathing was the thing. My sinuses felt very blocked, chest was wheezy and I'd been stuck indoors for a week. Things improved afterwards and now feel better than I have for quite some time.GIN1138 said:
Good to see you on this morning Frank? Did you get medical advice about your breathlessness the other day?Frank_Booth said:
Amazing. One thing I am sick and tired of at the moment is certainty.isam said:1 -
Over the long term the only way to reduce avoidable deaths is by reducing births!rottenborough said:Fraser Nelson, in Telegraph:
"Work is being done to add it all up and produce a figure for “avoidable deaths” that could, in the long-term, be caused by lockdown. I’m told the early attempts have produced a figure of 150,000, far greater than those expected to die of Covid"
Seems Cabinet is split on the lockdown. Witty is very aware of indirect deaths.1 -
We should be aiming to be matching the best not be some also ran. 5th biggest economy, nuclear power, P5 member and all that...noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:0 -
The lockdown policy is a massive restriction of liberty. It can only be justified, and I think it is justified, because of the extreme emergency. But it does throw up anomalies.malcolmg said:
It was a case of whether he was breaking the rules of the lockdown re whether it was an essential journey or not. He is being safe virus wise.FF43 said:
I'm talking about what matters in terms of virus spread. I'm apparently mentally deranged in thinking that's about the only thing that matters right now. But hey!malcolmg said:
You are talking mince, you would be as well saying they are in unit terms connected to the space station. Pure bollox.FF43 said:
There is a point here about "households". In unit terms you are pretty much in a household with your grandson even though you are in separate dwellings, as he's getting your regular shopping. You are keeping your contact points one to one, which is the key to stopping an exponential spread. ( As well as maintaining good social distancing behaviour).OldKingCole said:Thinking about Robert Jenrick's 'faux pas', Grandson 1 drove 40 miles yesterday to bring us a supermarket order. Does it about every 10 days. He puts the shopping on the front doorstep, then comes round and stands outside a window and we chat.
Don't want to discourage him, but should we?
If they cannot get shopping any other way it is perfectly fine but they cannot be described as a unit unless you are mentally deranged.
If it was to save his starving grandparents I am sure it is perfectly acceptable, not so sure if it had been to just take over a box of chocolates.
I get the shopping for my mother who lives alone and doesn't see anyone from one week to the next now. I worry about this but know that if I spent some time with her, had a meal with her, it wouldn't have a material effect on the spread of the virus, and certainly not compared with if she moved in with us, which she could do under the policy. Maybe there's a case for people on their own to have a designated contact person, for company.0 -
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to Grayling. Like Horton, he’s one who doesn’t let facts interfere with his prejudices.isam said:
https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/the-great-myths-8-the-loss-of-ancient-learning/1 -
What I'm saying is that if someone thinks the peak of daily deaths is the point at which restrictions can be relaxed, then they are scientifically illiterate.fox327 said:
Some epidemiologists have been called mathematical biologists, but they are doctors not mathematicians. Just because a person is not an epidemiologist does not make them an idiot. The medical profession is not uniquely qualified to make judgements on ethical, social and economic issues or to balance them against medical priorities. If doctors take sole responsibility for deciding the response to this crisis they may regret it in the future.Chris said:
There seems to be a school of thought that as soon as the daily death toll passes its peak we can start to loosen restrictions. That just reflects complete scientific illiteracy.fox327 said:The doctors/epidemiologists advising the government have effectively ruled 1)
The doctors/epidemiologists advising the government have effectively ruled 1) out. The restrictions will continue until cases have been reduced to a very low level. The restrictions will then be slightly loosened until cases rise again when the restrictions will be reimposed. There will never be enough cases for herd immunity to be reached. The only other scenario the doctors will accept for restrictions to be lifted is if a vaccine is available that enables herd immunity to be reached. No doctor will admit this.IanB2 said:
https://edition.cnn.com/20,20/04/09/world/lockdown-lift-vaccine-coronavirus-lancet-intl/index.htmlRatters said:I'm trying but failing to see a way out of lockdown (or similar) anytime soon, without accepting a much higher death toll. This virus took 3-4 months to move from a single city in China to causing thousands of deaths daily across different continents, with most of the world on lockdown. Even if cases fall, as in Italy/Spain, the virus will still have a much stronger footing to restart in most countries than it did last time.
I can only see two sustainable ways out:
1) For restrictions to be loosened/tightened according to NHS capacity. That means we will have lots more deaths, but gradually build up herd immunity.
2) A vaccine, offering a relatively quick route to herd immunity, but we won't be seeing that until 2021 at the latest.
Of course, there are other potential outcomes, such as people don't get long-term immunity from having the virus (very bad); or it does give immunity and there are far more asymptomatic cases than we thought (very good).
From a personal perspective, my wife and I have broadly accepted that the lockdown is for the long-haul and so are planning accordingly with deliveries. Having a 3 week old baby means we're erring on the side of caution and avoiding physical shops as much as possible.
See Question Time last night when the epidemiologist was asked what was required for the lockdown to be lifted, and he did not answer the question. The doctors are running the country, and the elected politicians are taking orders from them. If this continues and no vaccine is found the lockdown could last more than 50 years.
Can't quite make out what your response has to do with that, or whether you agree or disagree.0 -
His face when the grasscutter went past was funny as well. We are pissing ourselves.Theuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=200 -
He is not the PM, will have been told to just stay in the house and take a paracetamol.GIN1138 said:
Good to see you on this morning Frank? Did you get medical advice about your breathlessness the other day?Frank_Booth said:
Amazing. One thing I am sick and tired of at the moment is certainty.isam said:1 -
From reading his comment, you'd almost think that for some reason Grayling has a massive axe to grind with Johnson and Cummings. I wonder what that might be?ydoethur said:
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to Grayling. Like Horton, he’s one who doesn’t let facts interfere with his prejudices.isam said:
https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/the-great-myths-8-the-loss-of-ancient-learning/1 -
I have it on good authority that Malc is a master of the Immodest Reptile.Alistair said:
Well you give us a video then to show us how it is done.malcolmg said:
That is totally wrongTheuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=200 -
Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=210 -
It's important to aim for the best, and note if we are not. But it's also important to note if we are not the worst, or are average.JonathanD said:
We should be aiming to be matching the best not be some also ran. 5th biggest economy, nuclear power, P5 member and all that...noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:0 -
To match the best you have to be willing to put the work in.JonathanD said:
We should be aiming to be matching the best not be some also ran. 5th biggest economy, nuclear power, P5 member and all that...noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:
Do the British people give any sign of being willing to do that ?1 -
By claiming £2,400 more per head than Tories.....malcolmg said:our fine lads and lassies manage their affairs effectively and well under budget.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mps-expenses-scandal/how-much-does-my-mp-claim/
Of course, doesn't stop them telling lies about it:
The tweet [by Campbeltown and Kintyre SNP branch] claims:
“The SNP Has 35 MPs in Westminster, their total travel and accommodation costs for the last 12 months is £79,852. The Scottish Conservatives have 13 MPs in Westminster, their total travel and accommodation costs are £250,427.”
Given the numbers of MPs in the claim and the date of the tweet, the year being referred to is presumably 2017/18. Looking at the parliamentary expenses figures for that year, the amounts quoted in the tweet are wildly inaccurate....
In 2017/18 the total travel and accommodation costs for the 35 SNP MPs came to £1.3 million, or £37,000 on average per MP.
In the same year the total travel and accommodation costs for the 13 Conservative MPs from Scotland came to around £389,000, or just under £30,000 on average per MP.
We cannot see any reasonable way in which the tweet could have come up with its figures.
https://fullfact.org/online/snp-conservative-mp-expenses/1 -
That is enforcement beyond what the law allows, I think.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
Unless the polizei are pretending than a 2m journey from aisle 1 to aisle 2 is a separate "non-essential journey", and I don't think even Vera Baird had her head that far in the clouds when she was a PCC.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVfZxQugvFcAlistair said:
Well you give us a video then to show us how it is done.malcolmg said:
That is totally wrongTheuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=200 -
Well Germany is richer than us and spend more on healthcare, not sure why we should expect to match them anymore than you would expect a poorer country to match us?JonathanD said:
We should be aiming to be matching the best not be some also ran. 5th biggest economy, nuclear power, P5 member and all that...noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:
Besides, each country is unique in its demographics, fitness, geography and social norms. Those may be accounting for as much or more variation as policy. As may randomness for reasons that will never be known.
0 -
What do you expect from one of the few SE cities dumb enough to have a Corbynite MP and the highest remain vote this side of Strasbourg ?williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
The cops are as full of virtue signalling left wing authoritarian bollocks as the citizens. Some of us have to live here.1 -
Well, I wonder too, given it was Cummings’ idea to let him have his own pseudo-university to play with. You would have thought he’d be grateful but apparently not.Sandpit said:
From reading his comment, you'd almost think that for some reason Grayling has a massive axe to grind with Johnson and Cummings. I wonder what that might be?ydoethur said:
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to Grayling. Like Horton, he’s one who doesn’t let facts interfere with his prejudices.isam said:
https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/the-great-myths-8-the-loss-of-ancient-learning/1 -
Just out of curiosity, would you agree to be infected with the virus, and to go into isolation until you were no longer infectious, and also to waive the right to medical treatment for the infection?Luckyguy1983 said:
Hard as it is to accept, herd immunity is still the only show in town.malcolmg said:
It did however confirm how our betters think of us, they do not normally admit to it. Our Lords and Masters think of us as disposable worker ants.Mysticrose said:
I think things might have been better if we'd never heard the phrase 'herd immunity.'Ratters said:
Exactly.fox327 said:
The doctors/epidemiologists advising the government have effectively ruled 1) out. The restrictions will continue until cases have been reduced to a very low level. The restrictions will then be slightly loosened until cases rise again when the restrictions will be reimposed. There will never be enough cases for herd immunity to be reached. The only other scenario the doctors will accept for restrictions to be lifted is if a vaccine is available that enables herd immunity to be reached. No doctor will admit this.
See Question Time last night when the epidemiologist was asked what was required for the lockdown to be lifted, and he did not answer the question. The doctors are running the country, and the elected politicians are taking orders from them. If this continues and no vaccine is found the lockdown could last more than 50 years.
If we rule out herd immunity as a strategy, which we seem to have,
Maybe steps like mass antibody testing and compulsory mask wearing (once enough are available) can bring us closer to something that resembles normality, but I've become quite pessimistic of late.
I agree re. your last paragraph. Mass antibody testing, carrying some sort of 'I've had the virus' ID and, yes, compulsory wearing of masks on public transport and inside public buildings.
It's a genuine question. If there were really large numbers of people who felt that way, they could make a genuine contribution to solving the problem.
1 -
Watch with envy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyI2m67wS8wAlistair said:
Well you give us a video then to show us how it is done.malcolmg said:
That is totally wrongTheuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=20
0 -
Bonkers. When is Patel going to get a grip?MattW said:
That is enforcement beyond what the law allows, I think.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=210 -
You can never run perfect experiments in political science, because so many factors are different, but it will make an interesting contrast to Blair's timidity over the EU. Blair was criticised for not using his landslide majorities to do more - such as join the Euro - and perhaps a Starmer campaign on Rejoin will show why that caution was justified.GIN1138 said:
It certainly seems "Sir" Kier has picked just about the most remain-centric shadow cabinet he possibly can.TGOHF666 said:Starmer needs his bumps felt.
https://twitter.com/sirbasilbrush/status/1248531501773398017?s=21
Could it be that Starmer is planning to run a REJOIN manifesto in 2024?
You all know what I think about the Tories chances in 2024 but if Labour are mad enough to fight the election on REJOIN that's the one thing that could well see them lose...0 -
"An opponent could respect us now? This shall not be!"HYUFD said:1 -
This makes me queasy. Who's to say what an "essential" item is? What's essential to one person is non-essential to others.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
The police are in no position to judge this.5 -
It is certainly a big worry for people with elderly parents etc. No easy solution but you cannot see your mother short of food whether it breaks rules or not, have to get your priorities right. As you say it should not be beyond them to ensure everyone has some contact person.FF43 said:
The lockdown policy is a massive restriction of liberty. It can only be justified, and I think it is justified, because of the extreme emergency. But it does throw up anomalies.malcolmg said:
It was a case of whether he was breaking the rules of the lockdown re whether it was an essential journey or not. He is being safe virus wise.FF43 said:
I'm talking about what matters in terms of virus spread. I'm apparently mentally deranged in thinking that's about the only thing that matters right now. But hey!malcolmg said:
You are talking mince, you would be as well saying they are in unit terms connected to the space station. Pure bollox.FF43 said:
There is a point here about "households". In unit terms you are pretty much in a household with your grandson even though you are in separate dwellings, as he's getting your regular shopping. You are keeping your contact points one to one, which is the key to stopping an exponential spread. ( As well as maintaining good social distancing behaviour).OldKingCole said:Thinking about Robert Jenrick's 'faux pas', Grandson 1 drove 40 miles yesterday to bring us a supermarket order. Does it about every 10 days. He puts the shopping on the front doorstep, then comes round and stands outside a window and we chat.
Don't want to discourage him, but should we?
If they cannot get shopping any other way it is perfectly fine but they cannot be described as a unit unless you are mentally deranged.
If it was to save his starving grandparents I am sure it is perfectly acceptable, not so sure if it had been to just take over a box of chocolates.
I get the shopping for my mother who lives alone and doesn't see anyone from one week to the next now. I worry about this but know that if I spent some time with her, had a meal with her, it wouldn't have a material effect on the spread of the virus, and certainly not compared with if she moved in with us, which she could do under the policy. Maybe there's a case for people on their own to have a designated contact person, for company.0 -
Shall we start off with the criminals and the lcd's ?Chris said:
Just out of curiosity, would you agree to be infected with the virus, and to go into isolation until you were no longer infectious, and also to waive the right to medical treatment for the infection?Luckyguy1983 said:
Hard as it is to accept, herd immunity is still the only show in town.malcolmg said:
It did however confirm how our betters think of us, they do not normally admit to it. Our Lords and Masters think of us as disposable worker ants.Mysticrose said:
I think things might have been better if we'd never heard the phrase 'herd immunity.'Ratters said:
Exactly.fox327 said:
The doctors/epidemiologists advising the government have effectively ruled 1) out. The restrictions will continue until cases have been reduced to a very low level. The restrictions will then be slightly loosened until cases rise again when the restrictions will be reimposed. There will never be enough cases for herd immunity to be reached. The only other scenario the doctors will accept for restrictions to be lifted is if a vaccine is available that enables herd immunity to be reached. No doctor will admit this.
See Question Time last night when the epidemiologist was asked what was required for the lockdown to be lifted, and he did not answer the question. The doctors are running the country, and the elected politicians are taking orders from them. If this continues and no vaccine is found the lockdown could last more than 50 years.
If we rule out herd immunity as a strategy, which we seem to have,
Maybe steps like mass antibody testing and compulsory mask wearing (once enough are available) can bring us closer to something that resembles normality, but I've become quite pessimistic of late.
I agree re. your last paragraph. Mass antibody testing, carrying some sort of 'I've had the virus' ID and, yes, compulsory wearing of masks on public transport and inside public buildings.
It's a genuine question. If there were really large numbers of people who felt that way, they could make a genuine contribution to solving the problem.0 -
Is the alarm bell to remind them to come up with some effective policies for government perhaps? Shouting about the problems no longer sufficient.HYUFD said:1 -
Labour under Starmer will fight the next general election on an align with the single market platform, only Jess Phillips of the leadership contenders was pushing rejoinGIN1138 said:
It certainly seems "Sir" Kier has picked just about the most remain-centric shadow cabinet he possibly can.TGOHF666 said:Starmer needs his bumps felt.
https://twitter.com/sirbasilbrush/status/1248531501773398017?s=21
Could it be that Starmer is planning to run a REJOIN manifesto in 2024?
You all know what I think about the Tories chances in 2024 but if Labour are mad enough to fight the election on REJOIN that's the one thing that could well see them lose...0 -
You are Priti Patel etc, etc.another_richard said:
To match the best you have to be willing to put the work in.JonathanD said:
We should be aiming to be matching the best not be some also ran. 5th biggest economy, nuclear power, P5 member and all that...noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:
Do the British people give any sign of being willing to do that ?0 -
The loons are syill.in the party .. they need expellingHYUFD said:1 -
It will be interesting to see if those opposed to the UK government start advocating for a health system more like Germany's - mostly insurance-based, and with only a third of the hospitals being public-sector.another_richard said:
To match the best you have to be willing to put the work in.JonathanD said:
We should be aiming to be matching the best not be some also ran. 5th biggest economy, nuclear power, P5 member and all that...noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:
Do the British people give any sign of being willing to do that ?1 -
It's curious they are still trying to enforce such a thing when it's been made clear already that is beyond what is required by the law. Do they not read the news?williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=210 -
People want the referendum enacted (we leave with a deal) and then move the hell on.LostPassword said:
You can never run perfect experiments in political science, because so many factors are different, but it will make an interesting contrast to Blair's timidity over the EU. Blair was criticised for not using his landslide majorities to do more - such as join the Euro - and perhaps a Starmer campaign on Rejoin will show why that caution was justified.GIN1138 said:
It certainly seems "Sir" Kier has picked just about the most remain-centric shadow cabinet he possibly can.TGOHF666 said:Starmer needs his bumps felt.
https://twitter.com/sirbasilbrush/status/1248531501773398017?s=21
Could it be that Starmer is planning to run a REJOIN manifesto in 2024?
You all know what I think about the Tories chances in 2024 but if Labour are mad enough to fight the election on REJOIN that's the one thing that could well see them lose...
If Labout wants to run a third Brexit election on REJOIN vs Move On then good luck to them...0 -
Id imagine there is much less for them to do at present. And something always needs to be done.kle4 said:
It's curious they are still trying to enforce such a thing when it's been made clear already that is beyond what is required by the law. Do they not read the news?williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=210 -
Not at all, did you not see Burgon's satisfied pride in his achievement of supporting some vague ideas? Job done.noneoftheabove said:
Is the alarm bell to remind them to come up with some effective policies for government perhaps? Shouting about the problems no longer sufficient.HYUFD said:1 -
If 'authorities' want to stop people buying certain items, then they should be cleared from the shelves. Trying to police supermarket trolleys is Orwellian.GIN1138 said:
This makes me queasy. Who's to say what an "essential" item is? What's essential to one person is non-essential to others.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
The police are in no position to judge this.1 -
The Old Bill are fucking loving this.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=210 -
Psst!
Don't tell anyone.
But when I went shopping for vegetables, fruit, and chips the other day...
I bought some cake too.
Shhh!
#rebel3 -
I'm currently trying to get back into software development by teaching myself Kotlin to write Android apps. I have a feeling that COBOL is probably a bit easier!Cookie said:
Ha, I used to be a COBOL programmer. Felt like it was going nowhere - all the jobs getting offshored - and took a masters in town planning. Now moved on from that too. Maybe time to go back to COBOL if suddenly we're short of programmers! Though it's not exactly difficult.OldKingCole said:
Like Latin?Alistair said:
Robert Glass wrote a book called "Facts and Fallacies of Software Engineering" around the turn of the millenium. In Fact 30 he pointed out that COBOL is a hardy perennial of a language and would be sticking around for years to come and that if you looked at job postings the number requesting COBOL had been increasing not decreasing.Sandpit said:
Father of a friend of mine is a COBOL programmer, still working into his 70s at over a grand a day.rottenborough said:
When I graduated in comp sci in mid 80s, COBOL was still being taught on the sister degree (Data Processing) and there were still jobs around asking for it. I'm guessing that continued into the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Isn’t that the computer equivalent of calling for Sumerian speakers?Jonathan said:https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/coronavirus-cobol-programmers-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
Calling COBOL programmers
Wish I'd gone down that route now, but we were all told it was a dead language 25 years ago!0 -
What is a non essential aisle.?kle4 said:
It's curious they are still trying to enforce such a thing when it's been made clear already that is beyond what is required by the law. Do they not read the news?williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=210 -
I dislike the 'fixed it for you' bollocks, but in this case..noneoftheabove said:
Id imagine there is much less for them to do at present. And someone always needs to be done.kle4 said:
It's curious they are still trying to enforce such a thing when it's been made clear already that is beyond what is required by the law. Do they not read the news?williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=211 -
My latest whups that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G88m2ihXDKUPulpstar said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVfZxQugvFcAlistair said:
Well you give us a video then to show us how it is done.malcolmg said:
That is totally wrongTheuniondivvie said:If you don't have a garden I'm sure this could be done in your sitting room. In fact probably better that you do it there.
https://twitter.com/joetracini/status/1248166916784623617?s=200 -
Ricky Gervais claimed in one of his videos that there had been a fight in Tescos in Hampstead.0
-
I think if the govt created a free month long Glastonbury type festival, where covid 19 was not treated by medics and entry/exit was impossible apart from the scheduled start and end, you would get 1m volunteers. Not sure the millionaire stars would be happy to play on those terms though.Chris said:
Just out of curiosity, would you agree to be infected with the virus, and to go into isolation until you were no longer infectious, and also to waive the right to medical treatment for the infection?Luckyguy1983 said:
Hard as it is to accept, herd immunity is still the only show in town.malcolmg said:
It did however confirm how our betters think of us, they do not normally admit to it. Our Lords and Masters think of us as disposable worker ants.Mysticrose said:
I think things might have been better if we'd never heard the phrase 'herd immunity.'Ratters said:
Exactly.fox327 said:
The doctors/epidemiologists advising the government have effectively ruled 1) out. The restrictions will continue until cases have been reduced to a very low level. The restrictions will then be slightly loosened until cases rise again when the restrictions will be reimposed. There will never be enough cases for herd immunity to be reached. The only other scenario the doctors will accept for restrictions to be lifted is if a vaccine is available that enables herd immunity to be reached. No doctor will admit this.
See Question Time last night when the epidemiologist was asked what was required for the lockdown to be lifted, and he did not answer the question. The doctors are running the country, and the elected politicians are taking orders from them. If this continues and no vaccine is found the lockdown could last more than 50 years.
If we rule out herd immunity as a strategy, which we seem to have,
Maybe steps like mass antibody testing and compulsory mask wearing (once enough are available) can bring us closer to something that resembles normality, but I've become quite pessimistic of late.
I agree re. your last paragraph. Mass antibody testing, carrying some sort of 'I've had the virus' ID and, yes, compulsory wearing of masks on public transport and inside public buildings.
It's a genuine question. If there were really large numbers of people who felt that way, they could make a genuine contribution to solving the problem.0 -
...and if such a thing exists, why haven't the supermarkets closed them?squareroot2 said:
What is a non essential aisle.?kle4 said:
It's curious they are still trying to enforce such a thing when it's been made clear already that is beyond what is required by the law. Do they not read the news?williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=211 -
I'm all for a strictly enforced lockdown, but this just seems silly. But then I suppose it is the job of the police to enforce laws, no matter how badly they are formulated.Sandpit said:
If 'authorities' want to stop people buying certain items, then they should be cleared from the shelves. Trying to police supermarket trolleys is Orwellian.GIN1138 said:
This makes me queasy. Who's to say what an "essential" item is? What's essential to one person is non-essential to others.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
The police are in no position to judge this.0 -
I would say the UK response to the coronavirus has been average to poor in European terms, which collectively has done better than the US but worse than East Asia.noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:
I would put the UK in a group of countries including France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and Netherlands. Another group of countries including Germany, most of Scandinavia, some of East and Central Europe and Ireland have done better.
0 -
Some of the police probably would like the items cleared from the shelves but government has not legislated for that, so I think the authorities are split on this to say the least. It is one area where there has definitely been confusion from the government, particularly in relation to guidance which understandably goes in stronger than the law in language, but which surprising numbers of people think is the law just because it uses the word 'must' and so on.Sandpit said:
If 'authorities' want to stop people buying certain items, then they should be cleared from the shelves. Trying to police supermarket trolleys is Orwellian.GIN1138 said:
This makes me queasy. Who's to say what an "essential" item is? What's essential to one person is non-essential to others.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
The police are in no position to judge this.
I'd be interested if any stores are voluntarily taking down 'non-essential' stock from their shelves to discourage non-essential trips.0 -
Great to hear. Rest up and get betterFrank_Booth said:
Thanks for asking. Not exactly breathlessness but discomfort breathing was the thing. My sinuses felt very blocked, chest was wheezy and I'd been stuck indoors for a week. Things improved afterwards and now feel better than I have for quite some time.GIN1138 said:
Good to see you on this morning Frank? Did you get medical advice about your breathlessness the other day?Frank_Booth said:
Amazing. One thing I am sick and tired of at the moment is certainty.isam said:
0 -
Mr. Sandpit, of course not.
There'll be cognitive dissonance towering higher than Babel. I strongly suspect those wishing we were more like Germany will never countenance our health system becoming more like Germany's because it would be deemed sacrilege against the NHS.1 -
It's ridiculous - you're allowed to shop for bread, butter, meat, milk, veg, but not digestive biscuits?squareroot2 said:
What is a non essential aisle.?kle4 said:
It's curious they are still trying to enforce such a thing when it's been made clear already that is beyond what is required by the law. Do they not read the news?williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
It is the home of Fen Poly, so what do you expect?
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Yes, but it's not their job to badly enforce those laws. Sometimes they are given unclear guidance from government on interpreting those laws, but they also seem to interpret them themselves (in fairness a lot of the time the government does not give guidance on its laws) and do it inconsistently. Which is something forgivable up to a point, but even when matters have been clarified they seem reluctant to change tack.FeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm all for a strictly enforced lockdown, but this just seems silly. But then I suppose it is the job of the police to enforce laws, no matter how badly they are formulated.Sandpit said:
If 'authorities' want to stop people buying certain items, then they should be cleared from the shelves. Trying to police supermarket trolleys is Orwellian.GIN1138 said:
This makes me queasy. Who's to say what an "essential" item is? What's essential to one person is non-essential to others.williamglenn said:Cambridge police patrolling the non-essential aisles.
https://twitter.com/cambridgecops/status/1248527425379713025?s=21
The police are in no position to judge this.
And no, complaining about such things is no awful police bashing. They do a lot of great work. But there is work they do that is not so great.0 -
Morning Malc. Sun shining in bonny Scotland I hope?malcolmg said:
He is not the PM, will have been told to just stay in the house and take a paracetamol.GIN1138 said:
Good to see you on this morning Frank? Did you get medical advice about your breathlessness the other day?Frank_Booth said:
Amazing. One thing I am sick and tired of at the moment is certainty.isam said:
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Yeah, give me 'PIC S9(6) COMP SYNC RIGHT' over 'int' any day!FeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm currently trying to get back into software development by teaching myself Kotlin to write Android apps. I have a feeling that COBOL is probably a bit easier!Cookie said:
Ha, I used to be a COBOL programmer. Felt like it was going nowhere - all the jobs getting offshored - and took a masters in town planning. Now moved on from that too. Maybe time to go back to COBOL if suddenly we're short of programmers! Though it's not exactly difficult.OldKingCole said:
Like Latin?Alistair said:
Robert Glass wrote a book called "Facts and Fallacies of Software Engineering" around the turn of the millenium. In Fact 30 he pointed out that COBOL is a hardy perennial of a language and would be sticking around for years to come and that if you looked at job postings the number requesting COBOL had been increasing not decreasing.Sandpit said:
Father of a friend of mine is a COBOL programmer, still working into his 70s at over a grand a day.rottenborough said:
When I graduated in comp sci in mid 80s, COBOL was still being taught on the sister degree (Data Processing) and there were still jobs around asking for it. I'm guessing that continued into the 90s.AlastairMeeks said:
Isn’t that the computer equivalent of calling for Sumerian speakers?Jonathan said:https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/coronavirus-cobol-programmers-new-jersey-trnd/index.html
Calling COBOL programmers
Wish I'd gone down that route now, but we were all told it was a dead language 25 years ago!
(Ex ICL-1900 COBOL programmer)
EDIT: My COBOL may be 40 years rusty tbf.2 -
Italy and Switzerland have the excuse that they were the first European countries to suffer major outbreaks. We were lucky in having at least 2 weeks advance notice but unfortunately squandered our advantage.FF43 said:
I would say the UK response to the coronavirus has been average to poor in European terms, which collectively has done better than the US but worse than East Asia.noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:
I would put the UK in a group of countries including France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and Netherlands. Another group of countries including Germany, most of Scandinavia, some of East and Central Europe and Ireland have done better.0 -
No - I'm thinking of a situation in which a real effort would be made to infect the volunteers. For example, inhaling a virus-laden aerosol for several hours. Though I'd be happy for all kinds of entertainment to be laid on for them after they do that.noneoftheabove said:
I think if the govt created a free month long Glastonbury type festival, where covid 19 was not treated by medics and entry/exit was impossible apart from the scheduled start and end, you would get 1m volunteers. Not sure the millionaire stars would be happy to play on those terms though.Chris said:
Just out of curiosity, would you agree to be infected with the virus, and to go into isolation until you were no longer infectious, and also to waive the right to medical treatment for the infection?Luckyguy1983 said:
Hard as it is to accept, herd immunity is still the only show in town.malcolmg said:
It did however confirm how our betters think of us, they do not normally admit to it. Our Lords and Masters think of us as disposable worker ants.Mysticrose said:
I think things might have been better if we'd never heard the phrase 'herd immunity.'Ratters said:
Exactly.fox327 said:
The doctors/epidemiologists advising the government have effectively ruled 1) out. The restrictions will continue until cases have been reduced to a very low level. The restrictions will then be slightly loosened until cases rise again when the restrictions will be reimposed. There will never be enough cases for herd immunity to be reached. The only other scenario the doctors will accept for restrictions to be lifted is if a vaccine is available that enables herd immunity to be reached. No doctor will admit this.
See Question Time last night when the epidemiologist was asked what was required for the lockdown to be lifted, and he did not answer the question. The doctors are running the country, and the elected politicians are taking orders from them. If this continues and no vaccine is found the lockdown could last more than 50 years.
If we rule out herd immunity as a strategy, which we seem to have,
Maybe steps like mass antibody testing and compulsory mask wearing (once enough are available) can bring us closer to something that resembles normality, but I've become quite pessimistic of late.
I agree re. your last paragraph. Mass antibody testing, carrying some sort of 'I've had the virus' ID and, yes, compulsory wearing of masks on public transport and inside public buildings.
It's a genuine question. If there were really large numbers of people who felt that way, they could make a genuine contribution to solving the problem.
The question is whether there would really be any volunteers for that kind of thing, or whether people are just extolling the merits of herd immunity on the assumption they're not going to catch the virus.0 -
Scandinavia, East & Central Europe have much lower population density and are less inter connected than UK, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium and Netherlands. The virus hasnt spread as much to rural areas in those countries either. Id imagine the former group also has better levels of fitness and lower levels of obesity.FF43 said:
I would say the UK response to the coronavirus has been average to poor in European terms, which collectively has done better than the US but worse than East Asia.noneoftheabove said:
Why is Germany the baseline rather than Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Switzerland, Denmark etc? All that shows is at least one country is doing better than us.JonathanD said:
A comparison between the UK death rates and Germany show that's not the case. However best to ascribe the UKs failure to political incompetence rather than active malice.BannedinnParis said:
So successfully, the policy has also been implemented across Europe.isam said:
I would put the UK in a group of countries including France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and Netherlands. Another group of countries including Germany, most of Scandinavia, some of East and Central Europe and Ireland have done better.
It seems much more likely to me the variations are primarily down to factors other than policy.3 -
There was an interesting paper a couple of days back.Foxy said:
Yes, the fatal part of Covid19 is the second phase, when the inflammatory "cytokine storm" gets out of control, and rather than fighting the virus becomes a problem in itself. This is the perceived cause of the lung damage, intravascular clotting, hypotension etc. The tricky bit is controlling it, without suppressing necessary host antiviral inflammation.rottenborough said:
I am no medic, but I do wonder whether some people's immune system overreacts?JohnLilburne said:
I suspect there has to be a genetic component as to why many people get such mild symptoms or none at all. It's not just down to age or co-morbidities: the Prince of Wales seems to have had it very mild, and he's over 70.Philip_Thompson said:
The disease does seem deadlier for ethnic minorities. Something about receptors being biologically different.
The molecular biology of these inflammatory cascades is quite complex, and many things influence them from underlying conditions to pharmaceuticals to gender. Women tend to have more reactive immune systems that nip it in the bud sooner is the theory.
Gives a touch of support for the use of Actemra (though, of course correlation/causation...)
Level of IL-6 predicts respiratory failure in hospitalized symptomatic COVID-19 patients
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.01.20047381v1
...Patients requiring mechanical ventilation 13/40 (32.5%) did not differ in age, comorbidities, radiological findings, respiratory rate or qSofa score. However, elevated interleukin-6 (IL-6) was strongly associated with the need for mechanical ventilation (p=1.2.10-5). In addition, the maximal IL-6 level (cutoff 80 pg/ml) for each patient during disease predicted respiratory failure with high accuracy (p=1.7.10-8, AUC=0.98). The risk of respiratory failure for patients with IL-6 levels of ≥ 80 pg/ml was 22 times higher compared to patients with lower IL-6 levels. In the current situation with overwhelmed intensive care units and overcrowded emergency rooms, correct triage of patients in need of intensive care is crucial. Our study shows that IL-6 is an effective marker that might be able to predict upcoming respiratory failure with high accuracy and help physicians correctly allocate patients at an early stage.
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