Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
The hope must be that the moment the top of the spike is reached, the NHS can largely return to providing cancer treatment, routine ops etc. and have the regional Nightingale Hospitals manage the recuperation of the CV-19 sufferers. That will be a big source of relief to many families.
The Nightingale Hospitals have been a triumph for pandemic management, but where the hell did all those beds come from?
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Crazy
I think we have a divergence from the spirit of the law and a literal interpretation of it.
The spirit of these regulation is to increase social distancing to control virus infection numbers to, ideally, a steady rate which keeps the NHS at, or slightly under, capacity. The aim is not to stop transmission entirely - what would be the point of lockdown?
Generally speaking, social distancing has increased massively. Unfortunately, and predictably, the spirit is being lost and strict adherence pursued by some in the police and many of the public. The public can be worse than the police. Sad to see.
I live in central London, in an area with significant social housing, including tower blocks.
The local parks are “busy”, but look closely and people are socially distancing, wearing masks, and generally being careful.
The moaners tend to be elderly and embittered types, people like Piers Morgan etc who thinks it appropriate to use the word “traitors” to describe people who dare to venture outdoors.
We should rather ask why out government completely fumbled February, and early March. Check out the damning article in Friday’s FT, or this mornings Sunday Times for details.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Morning everyone. Been thinking about social isolation in my family's terms. We've got a small garden and live in a small town with easily accessible walks. Easy to walk for an hour without having to get within 2m of anyone, We do it daily. Goods can be ordered on line, paid for by credit card and left on the doorstep 5m from the road. We have the technology and similarly minded and equipped friends and can (and do) interact virtually. Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either. Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult. Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
Barbecues on the beach really can't be allowed. People will not stay in distinct family groups for them even if most do.
I think Labour has to make some decent progress against the SNP to neutralise the fear among the English that a Labour-SNP Coalition would see the Scottish Nationalists tyrannize England. This makes the 2021 Holyrood elections really quite important. If Labour were to contrive to successfully force the SNP out of government it would make a huge difference.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
I would suggest that the relaxation should be by local authority rather than nationally. It is likely that the cities will need to be locked down longer than rural areas. Obviously not a total relaxation either, but perhaps a reopening of businesses and shops, with social distancing.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
It is not just touching the virus coated front pages, the red tops, in particular, have always been packed full of unhealthy material!
Morning everyone. Been thinking about social isolation in my family's terms. We've got a small garden and live in a small town with easily accessible walks. Easy to walk for an hour without having to get within 2m of anyone, We do it daily. Goods can be ordered on line, paid for by credit card and left on the doorstep 5m from the road. We have the technology and similarly minded and equipped friends and can (and do) interact virtually. Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either. Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult. Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
And yet Hancock has just threatened to take away exercise as an excuse to leave home as well.
I really wonder if he understands what that might mean.
We are not far from his constituency; our small town is typical of those there. I don't think there are any tower blocks in Bury, although there are some streets of terraced houses.
I think Labour has to make some decent progress against the SNP to neutralise the fear among the English that a Labour-SNP Coalition would see the Scottish Nationalists tyrannize England. This makes the 2021 Holyrood elections really quite important. If Labour were to contrive to successfully force the SNP out of government it would make a huge difference.
Doesn't look likely at the moment though.
Jackie Baillie being elected deputy leader looks from here like a real slap in the face to Richard Leonard. It also suggests Scottish Labour are serious about presenting themselves as moderate, responsible unionists again - a mantle Davison had taken from them.
But just 18,000 total votes doesn’t speak well of the party’s strength and vitality.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
The hope must be that the moment the top of the spike is reached, the NHS can largely return to providing cancer treatment, routine ops etc. and have the regional Nightingale Hospitals manage the recuperation of the CV-19 sufferers. That will be a big source of relief to many families.
Well yes, but the virus will still be here post lockdown. The key after the lockdown is eased (probably partially and possibly regionally) is to maintain the infection rate at a steady stream so as to avoid future spikes. Life after lockdown will be dominated by this finesse for - how long - months definitely, years maybe. Until we have herd immunity or a vaccine is found.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
I think that it very much varied with the people. My great aunt’s tower block was nice. Every landing was looked after, there were potted plants and flowers, the stairs were swept on a rota and her flat was well maintained. My gran’s tower block was not as nice and got worse over time. The lifts were disgusting and dangerous (I got beaten up in one when I was a kid) , the common areas were filthy and there was an increasing drug problem. That block has been demolished since she died but my great aunt’s is still in use.
I would agree that as a kid visiting either was not great. My aunts was quite close to a public park so we would go there. At my grans you stayed inside. Dundee has the multi song
I’ve got a hoose in the multi Right next to Jeanie McNulty I’ve got a hoose in the multi and I can look doon on you
We used to go to the Ferry But the bus fares got affy dear So now we sit on the veranda And look at the Ferry fae here.
What the song indicated was that life in a multi was a big step up from the slums with outside toilets most of the occupants had come from.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
Morning everyone. Been thinking about social isolation in my family's terms. We've got a small garden and live in a small town with easily accessible walks. Easy to walk for an hour without having to get within 2m of anyone, We do it daily. Goods can be ordered on line, paid for by credit card and left on the doorstep 5m from the road. We have the technology and similarly minded and equipped friends and can (and do) interact virtually. Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either. Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult. Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
And yet Hancock has just threatened to take away exercise as an excuse to leave home as well.
I really wonder if he understands what that might mean.
Morning everyone. Been thinking about social isolation in my family's terms. We've got a small garden and live in a small town with easily accessible walks. Easy to walk for an hour without having to get within 2m of anyone, We do it daily. Goods can be ordered on line, paid for by credit card and left on the doorstep 5m from the road. We have the technology and similarly minded and equipped friends and can (and do) interact virtually. Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either. Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult. Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
Thank you. That's very helpful.
There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.
Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.
He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
I doubt it. I think you listen too much, draw to many of the same conclusions as, EiT on how different realistic actions would have resulted in an ultimately different course. You overestimate the extent to which actions in South Korea/Japan etc could have been replicated here, and with same outcomes. And you assume that presumed Govt failings are a consequence of bad decision making as opposed to lack of capacity/availability. The end result would have still been lockdown (in this country as in most of Europe). And I think Hancock has greater confidence of NHS staff than he does (although that may be nonsense).
I think the lack of capacity/availability point rather than decisions is well made. Especially when the similarity in many places is looked at.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
Morning everyone. Been thinking about social isolation in my family's terms. We've got a small garden and live in a small town with easily accessible walks. Easy to walk for an hour without having to get within 2m of anyone, We do it daily. Goods can be ordered on line, paid for by credit card and left on the doorstep 5m from the road. We have the technology and similarly minded and equipped friends and can (and do) interact virtually. Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either. Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult. Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
Barbecues on the beach really can't be allowed. People will not stay in distinct family groups for them even if most do.
For me, there's no one here except me, the coffee, the paperwork and the garden, since mum passed away before Christmas. And a whole series of projects.
I'm impressed with an example of a "dine together" date done in their own kitchens over zoom by a couple.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
Maybe here in Wales we have so many national parks and open spaces, together with beaches, we are a natural mecca for those hoping for relief but that is dangerous and has to be stopped for the longer term good
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
It is rather simple.
The stricter now the shorter the lockdown
Not sure that’s true if the strict rules are seen as unfair, unreasonable or bias towards those with big gardens. You will find people lose faith and there be less adherence.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
The hope must be that the moment the top of the spike is reached, the NHS can largely return to providing cancer treatment, routine ops etc. and have the regional Nightingale Hospitals manage the recuperation of the CV-19 sufferers. That will be a big source of relief to many families.
I think the role of the Nightingale hospitals, post first wave, should be as isolation hospitals for cases. This would mean acute hospitals can be kept clean as far as possible.
This isn't an entirely new concept. St George's Hospital Tooting was originally built in 9 weeks as The Fountain Hospital, on this principle. There is nothing new under the sun.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
It is rather simple.
The stricter now the shorter the lockdown
On a visit to the chemists yesterday the good burghers of Llantwit Major were very well behaved, the few that were about.
I am not sure they have the hang of the metric system here in Wales, as the two metre distancing cordons looked more like 20 metres
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
"I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas."
That's probably true. Hamas supporters and trans people aren't very numerous and are very unlikely to vote Conservative, whereas people who use public transport, hospitals and houses are a large swathe of the electorate. But it raises two problems. It effectively means that Labour would admit that it has lost the culture war by default, leaving the LibDems as the main standard bearer for the left-wing position here.
And the second problem is, what exactly would they say on transport, housing and hospitals? Simply offering to throw more money at them is probably priced in - few people vote Labour expecting public spending restraint. If they come up with any good policy ideas, a politician as skilful and opportunistic as Boris will probably steal them. And if they don't, they obviously won't get anywhere.
So I think Labour may be reduced to what it was doing in the early 90's and what the Conservatives were doing a decade later - praying that the Government would screw up disastrously and that their politically talented and popular leader would somehow leave the scene.
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
He does not have the charisma and fluency of Boris. He must work on that!
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
Not sure where you are, but the CofE have cracked down even on Priests saying their Offices solo in church - I assume as a symbolic example, as the risks are minimal.
Personally, I would JFDI the organ maintenance.
I will be going down to my part-owned gym occasionally to check that the kit is secure, though the smaller stuff has all been lent out to members and the coach is doing a daily online Workout of the Day, bi-daily nutrition seminars and individual advice to keep the community together.
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
He does not have the charisma and fluency of Boris. He must work on that!
No, he must not!
I wonder though if he’s going a bit far in writing the government nearly a blank cheque by saying he will support ‘whatever action is necessary.’ Particularly on lockdown being tightened.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
It is rather simple.
The stricter now the shorter the lockdown
On a visit to the chemists yesterday the good burghers of Llantwit Major were very well behaved, the few that were about.
I am not sure they have the hang of the metric system here in Wales, as the two metre distancing cordons looked more like 20 metres
If you're in a reasonably low populated area then you might as well push the 2 metre rule out a bit.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
It sounds essential to me. VisitBritain were compiling a list of essential tourism and heritage jobs - things that needed to be done over this period to protect stately homes and historic sites and whatnot. That sounds pretty essential, and you'd be alone. Get the Bishop to write you a letter on headed paper, and take it with you when you go, and you'll be fine.
What Alastair’s excellent piece highlights is that Labour’s pretensions to represent the working class is nothing more than a dinner party fantasy. They in fact represent the largely public sector professional class who are protected from the economic consequences of their policies by the largesse of the state. Starmer seems to me to be the perfect leader for such a party.
So Labour will continue to thrive in University towns, in places with a large number of urban professionals including the towns they commute from. I see the breaking of the red wall as a process, not an event. Traditional Labour seats find that they have increasingly less and less in common with this middle class bureaucracy and it’s obsessions and I suspect more of them will drift away. I don’t think that Starmer is the person to stop this process.
Of course if the Tories are thought to have mis-handled the economic carnage about to descend upon us none of this will matter. We live in volatile and slightly frightening times where conventional analysis has a deckchair on the Titanic feel to it.
You say that David but my friends who are undoubtably white working class in the North East, who voted Tory in the last election, have nothing but praise for Keir so far.
That doesn’t mean they will vote for him, but it’s something.
Mr. Doethur, to be fair, it's a lot easier commenting than making decisions.
True. Any fool can criticise. Many of them do.
Corbyn for starters.
This guy in the last few minutes has looked a million times better than Corbyn. Calm, confident, poised, thoughtful, obviously intelligent. Everything poor old Jez was not.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
He does not have the charisma and fluency of Boris. He must work on that!
No, he must not!
I wonder though if he’s going a bit far in writing the government nearly a blank cheque by saying he will support ‘whatever action is necessary.’ Particularly on lockdown being tightened.
Notable he takes the Big-G line on the police.
His big mistake will be if he goes anywhere near a Government of National Unity. I much prefer the support now and call out later if they cock it up approach!
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
It is rather simple.
The stricter now the shorter the lockdown
On a visit to the chemists yesterday the good burghers of Llantwit Major were very well behaved, the few that were about.
I am not sure they have the hang of the metric system here in Wales, as the two metre distancing cordons looked more like 20 metres
If you're in a reasonably low populated area then you might as well push the 2 metre rule out a bit.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
I would suggest that the relaxation should be by local authority rather than nationally. It is likely that the cities will need to be locked down longer than rural areas. Obviously not a total relaxation either, but perhaps a reopening of businesses and shops, with social distancing.
I live within the city of Newcastle, but I can see Northumberland from my window. In such a case, how would that work? I don’t think it would.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Why can't everyone stay indoors and keep me safe.
I need a scan and possibly an operation but I fully accept that this is unlikely for many months, and do accept hospital is not somewhere I should be just now
However, this is not about me or my dear wife, but it is about all those families suffering deaths including 2 nurses with 3 children each, a 5 year old boy, and many others who are not dispossable like us oldies, who you seem to want to die to give you the freedom to do as you want
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
He does not have the charisma and fluency of Boris. He must work on that!
No, he must not!
I wonder though if he’s going a bit far in writing the government nearly a blank cheque by saying he will support ‘whatever action is necessary.’ Particularly on lockdown being tightened.
Notable he takes the Big-G line on the police.
His big mistake will be if he goes anywhere near a Government of National Unity. I much prefer the support now and call out later if they cock it up approach!
I would agree with that, but he doesn’t seem interested either. Remember, he has almost nothing in common with Johnson.
Edit: HOORAY, he gets it. He wants people in his cabinet who wants to win the election. He wants to leave old cliques and labels behind. And he wants to hammer the antisemitism in Labour, saying all the right things.
What’s even more impressive is so far he hasn’t resorted to cliché, which was a weakness of Blair and Cameron.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
Don’t know why you think that I would be upset. I am delighted that Labour have a leader with a brain and less of an anti western obsession. The government needs to be held to account and that means there needs to be a viable alternative. Labour’s self indulgent behaviour with Corbyn let down not just themselves but the country. I am glad that it is finally at an end.
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
He does not have the charisma and fluency of Boris. He must work on that!
No, he must not!
I wonder though if he’s going a bit far in writing the government nearly a blank cheque by saying he will support ‘whatever action is necessary.’ Particularly on lockdown being tightened.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Why can't everyone stay indoors and keep me safe.
I need a scan and possibly an operation but I fully accept that this is unlikely for many months, and do accept hospital is not somewhere I should be just now
However, this is not about me or my dear wife, but it is about all those families suffering deaths including 2 nurses with 3 children each, a 5 year old boy, and many others who are not dispossable like us oldies, who you seem to want to die to give you the freedom to do as you want
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Why can't everyone stay indoors and keep me safe.
I need a scan and possibly an operation but I fully accept that this is unlikely for many months, and do accept hospital is not somewhere I should be just now
However, this is not about me or my dear wife, but it is about all those families suffering deaths including 2 nurses with 3 children each, a 5 year old boy, and many others who are not dispossable like us oldies, who you seem to want to die to give you the freedom to do as you want
Blimey, that’s hurling Corbyn under a bus with a vengeance.
‘It’s not about vindicating policies.’
I have to say - that was impressive. I will wait for more details on policies and personnel (which he quite rightly wouldn’t discuss) but if he runs the party along the principles he’s outlined I can easily imagine voting for this guy.
What Alastair’s excellent piece highlights is that Labour’s pretensions to represent the working class is nothing more than a dinner party fantasy. They in fact represent the largely public sector professional class who are protected from the economic consequences of their policies by the largesse of the state. Starmer seems to me to be the perfect leader for such a party.
So Labour will continue to thrive in University towns, in places with a large number of urban professionals including the towns they commute from. I see the breaking of the red wall as a process, not an event. Traditional Labour seats find that they have increasingly less and less in common with this middle class bureaucracy and it’s obsessions and I suspect more of them will drift away. I don’t think that Starmer is the person to stop this process.
Of course if the Tories are thought to have mis-handled the economic carnage about to descend upon us none of this will matter. We live in volatile and slightly frightening times where conventional analysis has a deckchair on the Titanic feel to it.
You say that David but my friends who are undoubtably white working class in the North East, who voted Tory in the last election, have nothing but praise for Keir so far.
That doesn’t mean they will vote for him, but it’s something.
He’s a massive improvement on Corbyn. We can only hope that in a few months the party itself will be looking back at that period with some bewilderment and embarrassment.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Why can't everyone stay indoors and keep me safe.
I need a scan and possibly an operation but I fully accept that this is unlikely for many months, and do accept hospital is not somewhere I should be just now
However, this is not about me or my dear wife, but it is about all those families suffering deaths including 2 nurses with 3 children each, a 5 year old boy, and many others who are not dispossable like us oldies, who you seem to want to die to give you the freedom to do as you want
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
It sounds essential to me. VisitBritain were compiling a list of essential tourism and heritage jobs - things that needed to be done over this period to protect stately homes and historic sites and whatnot. That sounds pretty essential, and you'd be alone. Get the Bishop to write you a letter on headed paper, and take it with you when you go, and you'll be fine.
Well, all three of the churches concerned are within easy walking distance. Access might be more of a problem given I don’t have keys for one of them.
I agree with Alistair here, middle class Remain or soft Leave London or suburban or commuter belt seats like Chipping Barnet, Wycombe, Milton Keynes, Chingford and Woodford Green and Broxtowe are now easier targets for Labour than ex industrial strong Leave seats like Mansfield and Great Grimsby.
If Starmer matched the 96 seats Cameron gained in 2010 Labour would be on 298 seats, as Alistair says enough to form a government with the LDs and SNP even without a Labour majority and if Labour gained a few more seats from the SNP in Scotland and the LDs a few more seats from the Tories in the South then it would be enough for a Labour-LD coalition government as also happened in 2010.
In 1997 Blair did indeed gain 145 seats and won a big majority, if Starmer repeated that Labour would be on 347 seats with a clear majority (albeit still with fewer seats than the 418 Blair won in 1997).
However given the next election will be 14 years out of power for Labour not 18 years as 1997 was it will be closer to Cameron's election in the election cycle (and indeed Kinnock's narrow 1992 defeat when much pre election talk was also of a Labour LD deal before Major's surprise win) than Blair's.
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
He does not have the charisma and fluency of Boris. He must work on that!
No, he must not!
I wonder though if he’s going a bit far in writing the government nearly a blank cheque by saying he will support ‘whatever action is necessary.’ Particularly on lockdown being tightened.
Notable he takes the Big-G line on the police.
His big mistake will be if he goes anywhere near a Government of National Unity. I much prefer the support now and call out later if they cock it up approach!
I dont think a GNU is in the interests of either side, so I doubt it's in the offing. Theres inevitability going to be or have been cock ups, the opposition will call that out. ( more likely than a cock up is just not dealing with things as well as hoped, which is not necessarily avoidable). And government is in emergency mode for several months unlikely to act any differently if others are involved so no benefit to bringing them on board more than already done.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
It sounds essential to me. VisitBritain were compiling a list of essential tourism and heritage jobs - things that needed to be done over this period to protect stately homes and historic sites and whatnot. That sounds pretty essential, and you'd be alone. Get the Bishop to write you a letter on headed paper, and take it with you when you go, and you'll be fine.
We have a letter from our DIY livery yard owner for the horses. My other half's life has barely changed with the lockdown in particular though she did miss not being able to see her parents for her birthday.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
They are working from the Welsh labour governments legislation and have widescale support
It was notable last week when Hancock relaxed the freedom of movement message in England, that idiot Drakeford buttoned it down in Wales.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
It is rather simple.
The stricter now the shorter the lockdown
Not sure that’s true if the strict rules are seen as unfair, unreasonable or bias towards those with big gardens. You will find people lose faith and there be less adherence.
There is also the issue of what are actually effective measures against the disease, and its continued spread and/or what have minimal relative effect. It’s all very well Hancock “threatening” to ban exercise, but is that (or indeed people sunbathing) REALLY an issue? Or is it all people in supermarkets, or those left on the tube, or in warehouses or, yes, working, through necessity, in hospitals.
If 99% of transmission is generated through government mandated activity which will or cannot be cracked down upon - then what is the purpose to cracking down further on the 1% resulting from “non-essential” activity because of perceived public non-compliance. It will just piss people off and reduce overall national mental and physical health outcomes to create no serious benefit in combatting the specific problem. And ironically potentially increase civil disobedience and reverse some of the social distancing gains that have been achieved.
Pleased to see a reasonable and positive interview with Starmer. The quality of political opposition and debate will now hopefully improve after the depths of Corbynism. Hancock also appeared on top of things. The situation is dire, but the politics is getting better.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
Here's hoping they enjoy not self indulgently focusing on fringe issues and a culture of victimhood under someone proud of having a closed mind who cares more about receiving veneration for talking about helping people than actually helping them.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Why can't everyone stay indoors and keep me safe.
I need a scan and possibly an operation but I fully accept that this is unlikely for many months, and do accept hospital is not somewhere I should be just now
However, this is not about me or my dear wife, but it is about all those families suffering deaths including 2 nurses with 3 children each, a 5 year old boy, and many others who are not dispossable like us oldies, who you seem to want to die to give you the freedom to do as you want
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
Crikey.
Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?
I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.
Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
Not so much a technical deliberate fudge, as the consequence of an evolved unwritten constitution though. There are bits which rely on precedent from several centuries ago, other bits more recent. And not always guaranteed to to avoid an element of contradiction.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
It sounds essential to me. VisitBritain were compiling a list of essential tourism and heritage jobs - things that needed to be done over this period to protect stately homes and historic sites and whatnot. That sounds pretty essential, and you'd be alone. Get the Bishop to write you a letter on headed paper, and take it with you when you go, and you'll be fine.
Routine maintenance, just do it, even more so if it is part of your job. No letter required. Bishops are busy running scared at the moment. Reasonable excuse just means proper reason.
BTW no minister is going to get prosecuted for praying in his church, whatever the bishops say, especially as going to his church is one of the 'lawful excuses' in the statutory list.
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Hancock - without a leadership contest.
Hanpenis must already be assuming Johnson is a goner as he has obviously using the daily press conferences to start his not-a-leadership-campaign.
I thought him a lightweight in last summers race, but he has been a better Health Secretary than I expected, and is far better than the other politicians at the press conferences. He actually responds to questions intelligently rather than defaulting to evasion and bluster.
I don't think any Health Secretary has made it to PM since the NHS was created.
He just lies better than the other ones, still useless.
malcy, have you maybe tried sliding out the bottom of the bed? Cuz it seems neither side of the bed is the right one for you to get out of.....
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
It might be pointed out that the Govt have denied ever pursuing herd immunity. Herd immunity is, still, the inevitable end point in the absence of a vaccine
I dont know that her stance is all that great. Membership should probably begin doubt occasionally, even the religious have crises of faith, and the plain fact is parties do change over time. It can be significant and the idea their values will remain consistent is bollocks. It may be they remain committed enough to those principles that someone never feels tempted to leave, but there would he moments of doubt, or should be. Leaders in particular can shape a party massively, and at a point the party is no longer what it was .
Committing to never doubting membership is an open invitation to be ignored or taken advantage of as you're going nowhere.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Middle class 2019 Tory and SNP voting Remainers are probably an easier target for Starmer certainly than white working class 2019 Tory voting Leavers
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Lol. Sums up exactly what I was trying to say far more succinctly. If they could only drop the care for the poor hypocrisy.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Middle class 2019 Tory and SNP voting Remainers are probably an easier target for Starmer certainly than white working class 2019 Tory voting Leavers
Given the Tory tw&ts will all be unemployed raving socialists by that time you are half right. Once again on Scotland you are barking.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.
Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
Lets hope so but which labour is still to be determined
It’s clear he’s going to be left wing. Probably more so than Miliband.
But I would rather have an intelligent, competent socialist with a healthy dose of pragmatism than a doctrinaire nutter from either side.
Put it this way, that performance says he deserves to be taken seriously and treated with respect as a realistic political option. His policies and personnel may put me off, but I don’t think I would be panicking and stockpiling food if he became PM.
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Comments
The spirit of these regulation is to increase social distancing to control virus infection numbers to, ideally, a steady rate which keeps the NHS at, or slightly under, capacity. The aim is not to stop transmission entirely - what would be the point of lockdown?
Generally speaking, social distancing has increased massively. Unfortunately, and predictably, the spirit is being lost and strict adherence pursued by some in the police and many of the public. The public can be worse than the police. Sad to see.
The local parks are “busy”, but look closely and people are socially distancing, wearing masks, and generally being careful.
The moaners tend to be elderly and embittered types, people like Piers Morgan etc who thinks it appropriate to use the word “traitors” to describe people who dare to venture outdoors.
We should rather ask why out government completely fumbled February, and early March. Check out the damning article in Friday’s FT, or this mornings Sunday Times for details.
Doesn't look likely at the moment though.
But just 18,000 total votes doesn’t speak well of the party’s strength and vitality.
He is overdoing it, maybe understandably, but he needs to take it a bit easier for a while
I would agree that as a kid visiting either was not great. My aunts was quite close to a public park so we would go there. At my grans you stayed inside.
Dundee has the multi song
I’ve got a hoose in the multi
Right next to Jeanie McNulty
I’ve got a hoose in the multi and
I can look doon on you
We used to go to the Ferry
But the bus fares got affy dear
So now we sit on the veranda
And look at the Ferry fae here.
What the song indicated was that life in a multi was a big step up from the slums with outside toilets most of the occupants had come from.
I do agree with you that many people buck the system, so perhaps a big stick is required. If people could behave themselves it wouldn't be needed.
In response to a question on nurses pay he replies “everyone wants to help our nurses right now”. Ouch.
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
But I am sure there will be a Drive to use them as public spaces right now.
The stricter now the shorter the lockdown
I'm impressed with an example of a "dine together" date done in their own kitchens over zoom by a couple.
This isn't an entirely new concept. St George's Hospital Tooting was originally built in 9 weeks as The Fountain Hospital, on this principle. There is nothing new under the sun.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/MAB-Fountain/
I am not sure they have the hang of the metric system here in Wales, as the two metre distancing cordons looked more like 20 metres
‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
"I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas."
That's probably true. Hamas supporters and trans people aren't very numerous and are very unlikely to vote Conservative, whereas people who use public transport, hospitals and houses are a large swathe of the electorate. But it raises two problems. It effectively means that Labour would admit that it has lost the culture war by default, leaving the LibDems as the main standard bearer for the left-wing position here.
And the second problem is, what exactly would they say on transport, housing and hospitals? Simply offering to throw more money at them is probably priced in - few people vote Labour expecting public spending restraint. If they come up with any good policy ideas, a politician as skilful and opportunistic as Boris will probably steal them. And if they don't, they obviously won't get anywhere.
So I think Labour may be reduced to what it was doing in the early 90's and what the Conservatives were doing a decade later - praying that the Government would screw up disastrously and that their politically talented and popular leader would somehow leave the scene.
Personally, I would JFDI the organ maintenance.
I will be going down to my part-owned gym occasionally to check that the kit is secure, though the smaller stuff has all been lent out to members and the coach is doing a daily online Workout of the Day, bi-daily nutrition seminars and individual advice to keep the community together.
I wonder though if he’s going a bit far in writing the government nearly a blank cheque by saying he will support ‘whatever action is necessary.’ Particularly on lockdown being tightened.
Notable he takes the Big-G line on the police.
That doesn’t mean they will vote for him, but it’s something.
Corbyn for starters.
This guy in the last few minutes has looked a million times better than Corbyn. Calm, confident, poised, thoughtful, obviously intelligent. Everything poor old Jez was not.
However, this is not about me or my dear wife, but it is about all those families suffering deaths including 2 nurses with 3 children each, a 5 year old boy, and many others who are not dispossable like us oldies, who you seem to want to die to give you the freedom to do as you want
Edit: HOORAY, he gets it. He wants people in his cabinet who wants to win the election. He wants to leave old cliques and labels behind. And he wants to hammer the antisemitism in Labour, saying all the right things.
What’s even more impressive is so far he hasn’t resorted to cliché, which was a weakness of Blair and Cameron.
Does a late-night assignation in a car park with a dealer constitute "collecting medicine"?
Today is the last day for the current year ISA tax breaks.
‘It’s not about vindicating policies.’
I have to say - that was impressive. I will wait for more details on policies and personnel (which he quite rightly wouldn’t discuss) but if he runs the party along the principles he’s outlined I can easily imagine voting for this guy.
If Starmer matched the 96 seats Cameron gained in 2010 Labour would be on 298 seats, as Alistair says enough to form a government with the LDs and SNP even without a Labour majority and if Labour gained a few more seats from the SNP in Scotland and the LDs a few more seats from the Tories in the South then it would be enough for a Labour-LD coalition government as also happened in 2010.
In 1997 Blair did indeed gain 145 seats and won a big majority, if Starmer repeated that Labour would be on 347 seats with a clear majority (albeit still with fewer seats than the 418 Blair won in 1997).
However given the next election will be 14 years out of power for Labour not 18 years as 1997 was it will be closer to Cameron's election in the election cycle (and indeed Kinnock's narrow 1992 defeat when much pre election talk was also of a Labour LD deal before Major's surprise win) than Blair's.
What a breath of fresh air .
His last remark about not seeking vindication for Labour Party policy was a crushing put down of Corbyn & Corbynism.
Let's hope the far left are properly rooted out. A day in is too early to call things.
If 99% of transmission is generated through government mandated activity which will or cannot be cracked down upon - then what is the purpose to cracking down further on the 1% resulting from “non-essential” activity because of perceived public non-compliance. It will just piss people off and reduce overall national mental and physical health outcomes to create no serious benefit in combatting the specific problem. And ironically potentially increase civil disobedience and reverse some of the social distancing gains that have been achieved.
Hancock also appeared on top of things.
The situation is dire, but the politics is getting better.
He means CMO who told everyone to stay at home then went out to her second home herself.
BTW no minister is going to get prosecuted for praying in his church, whatever the bishops say, especially as going to his church is one of the 'lawful excuses' in the statutory list.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Committing to never doubting membership is an open invitation to be ignored or taken advantage of as you're going nowhere.
Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
But I would rather have an intelligent, competent socialist with a healthy dose of pragmatism than a doctrinaire nutter from either side.
Put it this way, that performance says he deserves to be taken seriously and treated with respect as a realistic political option. His policies and personnel may put me off, but I don’t think I would be panicking and stockpiling food if he became PM.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?