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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Grand Entrance. Sir Keir Starmer’s electoral challenges

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  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    nichomar said:

    ABZ said:

    Quick though: although the formal lockdown started on Monday 23rd, the pubs / clubs / theatres were all shut from the Saturday - it's not the same as a lockdown but as far as I'm aware, in Spain / Italy, such measures only started when the formal lockdown began (in Spain) and a couple of days after the lockdown in Italy. I wonder if that, informal but pretty directed social distancing, will have an effect upon the shape of our epidemic (for example, slightly shifting down the maximum number of cases / deaths)? Then of course there is the clear fall in transport usage for the week before the lockdown as well...

    A lot of events were starting to be cancelled but no idea about theaters and cinemas. Did many pubs or restaurants close in UK before they had to?
    They shut the Saturday / Sunday before the lockdown began in general. And most events were already cancelled by that point - and the transport usage was already substantially down the week before the lockdown started.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,259
    kle4 said:

    Email from EasyJet this morning telling me 'It's time to book your next holiday'.

    I'll pass for the moment.

    I went onto the Ryanair site to other day to see if they had cancelled my flight to NL for the Mayday weekend. They were advertising cheap trips to Malta the previous week...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    kinabalu said:

    Oh please let Labour double down on 'progressive metropolitans' - I'd really love to see them crack the glass floor of 150 MPs...

    No, that's the new "base", is what I mean. The heartlands are Hampstead not Hartlepool. But it's only a foundation. We must attract plenty of other voters too in order to win a general election. Twas always thus. And Starmer should be able to do it IMO.
    Indeed, like the US Democrats Labour's core vote is now largely young middle class graduates and ethnic minority voters living in inner cities and university towns.

    The white working class in old industrial areas are moving Tory just as in the US they have gone Republican.

    The swing voters are middle aged, middle income largely suburban voters in both the US and here
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    Not to say perfect form but otherwise yes. Plus some other bits and bobs.

    Plus a two minute 40 secs (for some reason) plank.

    How that bloke did a plank for eight hours god only knows.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
    OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
    Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that.
    The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
    Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it.
    I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
    The bigger story is that there is a very knowledgeable doctor available but because he is a "YOON" Mrs Sturgeon has picked this far less suitable candidate - who also turns out can't follow advice.

    The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.

    Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.
    I keep hearing this expression "yoon". What does it mean?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    edited April 2020

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
    OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
    Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that.
    The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
    Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it.
    I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
    My reference was to a post about going out and buying newspapers. Any newspapers.
    But the newspaper headline you posted was people flouting the rules, hence my reply being on that topic.
    PS: you should not be going out to purchase a newspaper unless you are doing essential shopping and buy at same time. Rules are very clear.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    I did 30 😉
    Bah
    How are you for pull ups? My target is to be able to do 15 with perfect form by end of lockdown. Currently on 9.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Dura_Ace said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    Sunday cycling with my club. 68km. Normalised average power 177W.

    Bloody hell. I do 20km and think I'm Eddie Mercyx.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Stocky said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
    OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
    Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that.
    The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
    Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it.
    I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
    The bigger story is that there is a very knowledgeable doctor available but because he is a "YOON" Mrs Sturgeon has picked this far less suitable candidate - who also turns out can't follow advice.

    The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.

    Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.
    I keep hearing this expression "yoon". What does it mean?
    Unionist.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    One thing in Starmer's favour, he's killed stone dead the recurring pb.com fantasy of a Government of National Unity.

    Maybe the threads will finally have to come round to addressing PR....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    @AlastairMeeks

    Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.

    The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.

    Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
    Class is never in the past, it just evolves.
    I disagree. The language of it has not shifted more than a few iotas in decades, when if it is simply a matter of evolution it's now so different its barely recognizable. Class warriors might as well be talking about a different world to the one we actually live in, which actually prevents addressing any issues of class that do still exist. The younger ones still talk about the same things as the older ones, as angry as if they were there at the time - miners, and Thatcher.
    I agree that we do have attitudes to class that are fossilised on both left and right. The language and possibilities of recognising how class has changed are where Labour can get ahead of the Tories.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kle4 said:

    Stocky said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
    OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
    Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that.
    The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
    Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it.
    I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
    The bigger story is that there is a very knowledgeable doctor available but because he is a "YOON" Mrs Sturgeon has picked this far less suitable candidate - who also turns out can't follow advice.

    The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.

    Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.
    I keep hearing this expression "yoon". What does it mean?
    Unionist.
    Thanks. Now I feel silly.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    @AlastairMeeks

    Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.

    The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.

    Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
    Class is never in the past, it just evolves. Clearly the heyday of unionized heavy industry has gone, but even in the Seventies that was a force for improving own terms and conditions rather than ideological, apart from a few short stewards.

    The new working class is decentralized, and non-unionised, in a much wider range of service industries. They are also increasingly educated, female and multi-ethnic. Nationalisation of these industries is not the way to improve terms and conditions in the way it was for the miners and railway men of the postwar period.

    Society changes, but it is not impossible for the Labour party to appeal simultaneously to urban hipsters and the new working class. Adapting the welfare state to a more fluid, freelancing society is potentially a winner. It is those at the moment most appreciating a safety net, and its absence, whether ZHC barmaid, self employed hairdresser or freelance management consultant.
    The paradox for Labour is that measures to promote economic equality are best supported in societies that feel themselves to be one people. Whereas Labour's social policies - i.e. turbocharged identity politics - are almost perfectly designed to ensure atomization and fragmentation, thus defeating its economic message. It should really choose one or the other, but will instead soldier on with both, and end up falling between two stools.
    I disagree. Brexitism is the most turbocharged identity politics of my lifetime. A free society is one at ease with diversity, and that is the future.
    Blair went centre-left on society and centrist on the economy, Corbyn went far-left on both society and the economy. I think the results speak for themselves.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
    OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
    Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that.
    The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
    Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it.
    I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
    The bigger story is that there is a very knowledgeable doctor available but because he is a "YOON" Mrs Sturgeon has picked this far less suitable candidate - who also turns out can't follow advice.

    The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.

    Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.
    Harry I know she is Sturgeon's buddy but why would you pick someone other than the CMO regardless, she may be crap but she is in the job, why pick some random doctor.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    @AlastairMeeks

    Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.

    The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.

    Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
    Class is never in the past, it just evolves. Clearly the heyday of unionized heavy industry has gone, but even in the Seventies that was a force for improving own terms and conditions rather than ideological, apart from a few short stewards.

    The new working class is decentralized, and non-unionised, in a much wider range of service industries. They are also increasingly educated, female and multi-ethnic. Nationalisation of these industries is not the way to improve terms and conditions in the way it was for the miners and railway men of the postwar period.

    Society changes, but it is not impossible for the Labour party to appeal simultaneously to urban hipsters and the new working class. Adapting the welfare state to a more fluid, freelancing society is potentially a winner. It is those at the moment most appreciating a safety net, and its absence, whether ZHC barmaid, self employed hairdresser or freelance management consultant.
    The paradox for Labour is that measures to promote economic equality are best supported in societies that feel themselves to be one people. Whereas Labour's social policies - i.e. turbocharged identity politics - are almost perfectly designed to ensure atomization and fragmentation, thus defeating its economic message. It should really choose one or the other, but will instead soldier on with both, and end up falling between two stools.
    I disagree. Brexitism is the most turbocharged identity politics of my lifetime. A free society is one at ease with diversity, and that is the future.
    Blair went centre-left on society and centrist on the economy, Corbyn went far-left on both society and the economy. I think the results speak for themselves.
    And Johnson went centre-left on the economy...
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Oh Nandy
    You weren't even close to Long-Bailey
    And miles behind Starmer, oh Nandy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    I think Labour has to make some decent progress against the SNP to neutralise the fear among the English that a Labour-SNP Coalition would see the Scottish Nationalists tyrannize England. This makes the 2021 Holyrood elections really quite important. If Labour were to contrive to successfully force the SNP out of government it would make a huge difference.

    Doesn't look likely at the moment though.

    Not ever does it look likely, they are useless to the core.
    If Labour repeated the 27% they got at the 2017 general election in Scotland and the Tories repeated the 25% they got at the 2019 general election in Scotland at Holyrood next year, then there would be a Unionist majority as Holyrood uses PR and Sturgeon would face the fate of May in 2017, in office but not in power
    If your granny had bollox perhaps she would be your grandfather. Far more likely to happen than your fantasy.
    Thought you were in Scotland, not Norfolk!
    I reckon HYFUD came via Norfolk and both US and UK mixed. He must be a banjo player for sure.
  • Just listened to Keir Starmer's debut interview on Marr and I was impressed with his maturity of response and really a whole change of tone away from Corbyn and his toxic cabal

    If we are at a new dawn for labour, where all Corbyn's toxicity is purged, and Starmer continues to reflect that in the choice of his cabinet then labour are back and Boris will have an opposition to deal with

    Maybe we can breath a sigh of relief that Corbyn is finally gone
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    DavidL said:

    Lol. Sums up exactly what I was trying to say far more succinctly. If they could only drop the care for the poor hypocrisy.

    I think we must try to persuade working class communities that they ought to be voting for both economically re-distributive policies AND progressive social policies. It's a package deal. If they want the first but not the second, that is their choice and they must look elsewhere. IMO there will be enough people who DO want both parts of the Labour offer to win an election. And if not, OK, so be it. Our time will come. And when it does it will be worth something because it will be a genuine mandate to transform.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    I did 30 😉
    Bah
    How are you for pull ups? My target is to be able to do 15 with perfect form by end of lockdown. Currently on 9.
    I`m on 9 too - pullups palms facing each other. I have a pull-up bar at home. I used to be able to do 12/13, but had a very bad skiing accident a year ago which left me with a neck injury and nerve damage. I`m recovered now (except for some nerve damage) but not quite up to full power yet.

    7 if pull ups palms facing away.

    Pull-ups in combination with press ups give an excellent home workout.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    Sunday cycling with my club. 68km. Normalised average power 177W.

    Bloody hell. I do 20km and think I'm Eddie Mercyx.
    Remco Evenpoel did a 20km ITT in 24 minutes at the Tour of Algarve. So there's your target.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh please let Labour double down on 'progressive metropolitans' - I'd really love to see them crack the glass floor of 150 MPs...

    No, that's the new "base", is what I mean. The heartlands are Hampstead not Hartlepool. But it's only a foundation. We must attract plenty of other voters too in order to win a general election. Twas always thus. And Starmer should be able to do it IMO.
    Indeed, like the US Democrats Labour's core vote is now largely young middle class graduates and ethnic minority voters living in inner cities and university towns.

    The white working class in old industrial areas are moving Tory just as in the US they have gone Republican.

    The swing voters are middle aged, middle income largely suburban voters in both the US and here
    That is only a case of the lesser of two evils. If Labour even made minimal improvement they would leave the fibbing Tories in a heartbeat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Endillion said:

    Oh Nandy
    You weren't even close to Long-Bailey
    And miles behind Starmer, oh Nandy.

    She was closer to RLB than I thought she'd be. Probably did enough to not be totally humiliated, even though it was not a great result.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Awb682 said:

    Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?

    Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.

    I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.

    They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
    Burgon wasn’t trounced. He came third.
    Second wasn't it, but on 17%?
    Second on the first and second ballots, third overall because he wasn’t transfer-friendly.

    https://labour.org.uk/people/leadership-elections-hub-2020/leadership-elections-2020-results/
    Ah, I see.

    Interesting that the Butlerites weren't keen on Burgon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    kinabalu said:

    The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.

    Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.

    There's no such thing as ANY demographic generalization. We are all unique. But WWC is no worse than any other - e.g. "Metro Liberals".

    The Tories at GE19 were about working class aspiration? That's a stretch! Most of those voters went blue due to (i) Get Brexit Done and (ii) Disliking Corbyn and (iii) Liking "Boris". This 3rd factor being underestimated IMO.
    Disliking Corbyn -- yes although it would be interesting to know what they were told about him.
    Liking Boris -- yes; Boris is charismatic and engaging.

    Policy should not be underestimated. Boris promised an end to austerity.

    Boris promised to get tough on crime; tough on the causes of crime largely by recruiting 20,000 new coppers.

    Boris promised not just the £350 million Brexit dividend for the NHS but 50 new hospitals and 30,000 new nurses.

    Boris promised to train and upskill workers for new jobs and technology.

    Boris promised to extend broadband to all parts of the country with government broadband infrastructure (although unlike Labour's offer, this was probably more a free gift to business than the end-user).

    Boris promised new railways in the North and Midlands.

    And so on and so forth. Boris won on policy, and on a platform inspired by Labour's near-miss in 2017 and counter to Cameron's and May's governments.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    edited April 2020
    kle4 said:

    Gone rogue is an interesting way of putting it

    Seemed a nice way of describing voting Tory. I like to keep things polite on the Sabbath.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
    OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
    Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that.
    The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
    Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it.
    I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
    The bigger story is that there is a very knowledgeable doctor available but because he is a "YOON" Mrs Sturgeon has picked this far less suitable candidate - who also turns out can't follow advice.

    The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.

    Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.
    Harry I know she is Sturgeon's buddy but why would you pick someone other than the CMO regardless, she may be crap but she is in the job, why pick some random doctor.

    Seems daft that Holyrood isnt using this expert at Aberdeen Uni.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8084557/PROFESSOR-HUGH-PENNINGTON-explains-Covid-19-spreads.html

    but not surprising

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1262843/nicola-sturgeon-news-snp-scotland-coronavirus-hugh-pennington-coronavirus-uk-death-cases

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/338766/top-scientists-accuses-snp-of-using-own-project-fear-over-nhs/
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The Community of Madrid has registered in the last 24 hours the least number of new daily cases in a week (1,335). In addition, in relative terms the increase in positives has been below 4%, which is the smallest increase since the end of February when the count began.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Endillion said:

    Oh Nandy
    You weren't even close to Long-Bailey
    And miles behind Starmer, oh Nandy.

    She came and she gave without taking...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited April 2020
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    I did 30 😉
    Bah
    20 diamonds, 33 regular now
    I can't do a proper pull up though
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    @Scott_xP - PM for you
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited April 2020
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    I did 30 😉
    Bah
    How are you for pull ups? My target is to be able to do 15 with perfect form by end of lockdown. Currently on 9.
    I`m on 9 too - pullups palms facing each other. I have a pull-up bar at home. I used to be able to do 12/13, but had a very bad skiing accident a year ago which left me with a neck injury and nerve damage. I`m recovered now (except for some nerve damage) but not quite up to full power yet.

    7 if pull ups palms facing away.

    Pull-ups in combination with press ups give an excellent home workout.
    It sounds like you’re making good progress! Keep us updated in #PBHomeWorkoutClub

    I only have a flat bar unfortunately so can only do palms facing outwards.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
    OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
    Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that.
    The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
    Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it.
    I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
    The bigger story is that there is a very knowledgeable doctor available but because he is a "YOON" Mrs Sturgeon has picked this far less suitable candidate - who also turns out can't follow advice.

    The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.

    Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.
    Harry I know she is Sturgeon's buddy but why would you pick someone other than the CMO regardless, she may be crap but she is in the job, why pick some random doctor.

    Seems daft that Holyrood isnt using this expert at Aberdeen Uni.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8084557/PROFESSOR-HUGH-PENNINGTON-explains-Covid-19-spreads.html

    but not surprising

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1262843/nicola-sturgeon-news-snp-scotland-coronavirus-hugh-pennington-coronavirus-uk-death-cases

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/338766/top-scientists-accuses-snp-of-using-own-project-fear-over-nhs/
    Maybe because he is not the CMO, he is a bacteriologist not a virologist and he is in his 80's.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    Sunday cycling with my club. 68km. Normalised average power 177W.

    Bloody hell. I do 20km and think I'm Eddie Mercyx.
    Remco Evenpoel did a 20km ITT in 24 minutes at the Tour of Algarve. So there's your target.
    LOL I'm using the under armour app and I am just a tadge off that (ie 50%...).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    One thing in Starmer's favour, he's killed stone dead the recurring pb.com fantasy of a Government of National Unity.

    Maybe the threads will finally have to come round to addressing PR....

    AV, surely?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814
    TGOHF666 said:
    She should go. No excuses for the CMOs not to practice what they preach in the current circumstances. I say that if it were any of the medical team advising the UK Government too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Awb682 said:

    Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?

    Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.

    I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.

    They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
    Burgon wasn’t trounced. He came third.
    Second wasn't it, but on 17%?
    Second on the first and second ballots, third overall because he wasn’t transfer-friendly.

    https://labour.org.uk/people/leadership-elections-hub-2020/leadership-elections-2020-results/
    Ah, I see.

    Interesting that the Butlerites weren't keen on Burgon.
    How can I put this?

    If they had considered Burgon a credible candidate, would they have voted for Butler in the first place?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    TGOHF666 said:
    Well, that's quite extraordinary, but surely in real N Korea, she'd have been executed by now?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited April 2020
    TGOHF666 said:
    She should resign - no ifs no buts
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    TGOHF666 said:
    She should have been sacked for sure but as Sturgeon's buddy it was guaranteed not to happen. SNP are turning into the Tory party.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    TGOHF666 said:
    She should go. No excuses for the CMOs not to practice what they preach in the current circumstances. I say that if it were any of the medical team advising the UK Government too.
    She should do a Jackson.

    But she won’t.

    That will however be pretty damaging for Sturgeon when she could really do without it.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    TGOHF666 said:
    She should resign - no ifs no buts
    It is good that she has not. It is going to cause La Sturgeon a lot of trouble
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting read in the New Yorker, raising the question of whether the level of exposure to the virus affects the severity of the disease:

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/06/how-does-the-coronavirus-behave-inside-a-patient
  • malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    She should have been sacked for sure but as Sturgeon's buddy it was guaranteed not to happen. SNP are turning into the Tory party.
    Can you imagine if it had been her English counterpart. He would be fired instantly
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Lol. Sums up exactly what I was trying to say far more succinctly. If they could only drop the care for the poor hypocrisy.

    I think we must try to persuade working class communities that they ought to be voting for both economically re-distributive policies AND progressive social policies. It's a package deal. If they want the first but not the second, that is their choice and they must look elsewhere. IMO there will be enough people who DO want both parts of the Labour offer to win an election. And if not, OK, so be it. Our time will come. And when it does it will be worth something because it will be a genuine mandate to transform.
    Very few people want both parts of that offer - it was just tried a few months ago, with catalclysmic results. Your only hope is slow demographic change overcoming our deep national antipathy to such a programme. By which point sensible people will have sold up and moved to a friendlier jurisdiction :smile:
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    Why would we have to tighten lockdown further when hospitals are generally under-capacity?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227

    I love broadsheets. But have you seen what broadsheet circulation is like these days?

    I know. And therein lies the risk. Keir probably will need to tell a few jokes and clown around a bit at some point but there's no rush with the election so far away.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    Hancock and the government need to explain what is wrong with exercising (or indeed sunbathing) outdoors rather than rely on "because I say so". Almost everyone has got the social distancing message, and that you can go out for exercise. What confuses the public is that having gone out and stood 2m apart, Hancock is worried they might lie down, kick a ball or otherwise enjoy themselves.

    Regulations need to be clear, as does their rationale. We need science, not puritanism, and it needs to be clearly explained.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814

    TGOHF666 said:
    She should resign - no ifs no buts
    It is good that she has not. It is going to cause La Sturgeon a lot of trouble
    I can’t see how she’ll be able to ride it out beyond the end of the day.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I thought he said it would be banned if people didn’t abide by the rules.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    I did 30 😉
    Bah
    How are you for pull ups? My target is to be able to do 15 with perfect form by end of lockdown. Currently on 9.
    I`m on 9 too - pullups palms facing each other. I have a pull-up bar at home. I used to be able to do 12/13, but had a very bad skiing accident a year ago which left me with a neck injury and nerve damage. I`m recovered now (except for some nerve damage) but not quite up to full power yet.

    7 if pull ups palms facing away.

    Pull-ups in combination with press ups give an excellent home workout.
    It sounds like you’re making good progress! Keep us updated in #PBHomeWorkoutClub

    I only have a flat bar unfortunately so can only do palms facing outwards.
    Well, if you`re doing 9 of them well done. Pull ups are hard. Many men (maybe most?) would struggle to do 1.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    edited April 2020
    Stocky said:

    Good post, except for the bit about Michael McIntyre being amusing and entertaining.

    No, I don't see it either. "Britain's best loved" though apparently. That is what the stats say. But not a patch on James Corden for me.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Good post, except for the bit about Michael McIntyre being amusing and entertaining.

    No, I don't see it either. "Britain's best loved" though, apparently. That is what the stats say. But not a patch on James Corden for me.
    You are deliberately winding me up, methinks.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    As TwistedFireStopper pointed out further down thread, there is a world of difference between three months of isolation in your nice, roomy detatched or semi-detached house with garden and living in a one bed flat/bedsit/squalid houseshare with no garden at all.

    Six or seven years ago, I had just bought my first flat, a fairly nondescript one bedroom shoebox in East London. After a big night out I ended up bringing a few people back to mine to carry on the party.

    I was amazed when one girl asked me how many people lived in the flat. She simply couldn't believe I had the whole place to myself. No partner, no flatmate, no-one living on the sofa bed in the lounge? Nope.

    She showed me a picture of where she lived. She shared - shared - a bedroom about half the size of mine with her partner. The only communal room in the house was the tiny kitchen, as the living room was used as another bedroom.

    That is the reality of a lot of people's living situations in London. Staying indoors ain't gonna cut it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited April 2020
    kle4 said:

    Stocky said:

    kle4 said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    Does 40 with less than perfect form get me to parity?
    Really - in one go?
    Yes, but as I said many I doubt would pass muster as 'proper'.

    Started trying to some press ups in the new year, starting out just 10 in one go. 3 months later and it's a wibbly 40, I don't know how people do them, I really don't.

    Exercise sucks.
    Try burpees.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU8QYVW0gDU

    Hated more than any other exercise except running.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    nichomar said:

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I thought he said it would be banned if people didn’t abide by the rules.
    I don't see why if some people are doing X, you would ban Y?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Just watching the Starmer interview. I missed Hancock's interview, are they all really denying that herd immunity is what is happening, whether we like it or not?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    edited April 2020
    Foxy said:



    The paradox for Labour is that measures to promote economic equality are best supported in societies that feel themselves to be one people. Whereas Labour's social policies - i.e. turbocharged identity politics - are almost perfectly designed to ensure atomization and fragmentation, thus defeating its economic message. It should really choose one or the other, but will instead soldier on with both, and end up falling between two stools.

    I disagree. Brexitism is the most turbocharged identity politics of my lifetime. A free society is one at ease with diversity, and that is the future.
    It's an irregular verb - I express solidarity with vulnerable groups, you practice identity politics, he's a racist. The basic mistake - and here I agree with BluestBlue - is to treat individuals primarily as part of a group, instead of as individuals. That doesn't exclude a recognition that many people are in groups who are dicriminated against and it's perfectly acceptable to seek to end that, but not fall into the trap of thinking of anyone as just avatars of their communities.

    But I agree with Foxy about the future. It's already unusual for people to express routine prejudice about people who they know. When i was young, "Guess who's coming to dinner", a film about a white family who feel queasy about the daughter marrying a black brain surgeon, was a sensation, because everyone recognised the perceived dilemma. Nowdays, it just seems weird.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    On topic, here's my article about Starmer for Labour List:

    https://labourlist.org/2020/04/what-should-keir-starmer-do-next/
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    She should have been sacked for sure but as Sturgeon's buddy it was guaranteed not to happen. SNP are turning into the Tory party.
    It's a moronic thing to do. But firing her now isn't helpful in terms of the pandemic response. Fire her later would be my suggestion.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    I'm beginning to worry now. In the days of the Black Death, people used to walk round in bird masks on the assumption it would frighten away the miasma which led to infection.

    Nuisance masks will only give a false feeling of confidence. The experts know this. Either mask up effectively or don't do it at all. "Oh but it will cut off the sneezes."

    Will it? Or will you take off the mask instinctively? Even if you collect the mess on the inside of the mask, you'll need to take it off, effectively contaminating your hands and spreading it on everything you touch unless you've been taught the proper procedures.

    Did the HSE die in vain?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    rkrkrk said:

    nichomar said:

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I thought he said it would be banned if people didn’t abide by the rules.
    I don't see why if some people are doing X, you would ban Y?
    Possibly because some people are using x as an excuse to do y.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227

    Very few people want both parts of that offer - it was just tried a few months ago, with catalclysmic results. Your only hope is slow demographic change overcoming our deep national antipathy to such a programme. By which point sensible people will have sold up and moved to a friendlier jurisdiction :smile:

    You're reading too much into Dec 12th. Brexit and Corbyn will not be factors next time. We can win from the Left.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    It is all good fun and games and no doubt the CMO will fall on her sword before the day is out but honestly, who bloody cares? This is not going to bring down Sturgeon or shatter the SNP. It is just the old, old story that the rules only apply to other people.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited April 2020
    tlg86 said:

    Just watching the Starmer interview. I missed Hancock's interview, are they all really denying that herd immunity is what is happening, whether we like it or not?

    They have to deny it, due to the bad perception it (wrongly) has due to an idiotic and mischief-making media. The key is to pursue it whilst simultaneously denying it.

    Herd immunity is the only game in town (as Luckyguy said earlier), at least until a vaccine is found (which we shouldn`t bank on).
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814
    rkrkrk said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    She should have been sacked for sure but as Sturgeon's buddy it was guaranteed not to happen. SNP are turning into the Tory party.
    It's a moronic thing to do. But firing her now isn't helpful in terms of the pandemic response. Fire her later would be my suggestion.
    Isn’t she undermining the efforts of the pandemic response by virtue of being the one controlling the lockdown advice? Sorry, I think the position is untenable.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    nichomar said:

    rkrkrk said:

    nichomar said:

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I thought he said it would be banned if people didn’t abide by the rules.
    I don't see why if some people are doing X, you would ban Y?
    Possibly because some people are using x as an excuse to do y.
    If we ban exercise outdoors, why would that stop them sunbathing?
    They obviously don't care about the rules anyway..
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    kyf_100 said:

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    As TwistedFireStopper pointed out further down thread, there is a world of difference between three months of isolation in your nice, roomy detatched or semi-detached house with garden and living in a one bed flat/bedsit/squalid houseshare with no garden at all.

    Six or seven years ago, I had just bought my first flat, a fairly nondescript one bedroom shoebox in East London. After a big night out I ended up bringing a few people back to mine to carry on the party.

    I was amazed when one girl asked me how many people lived in the flat. She simply couldn't believe I had the whole place to myself. No partner, no flatmate, no-one living on the sofa bed in the lounge? Nope.

    She showed me a picture of where she lived. She shared - shared - a bedroom about half the size of mine with her partner. The only communal room in the house was the tiny kitchen, as the living room was used as another bedroom.

    That is the reality of a lot of people's living situations in London. Staying indoors ain't gonna cut it.
    Not just London, either. Distant relation makes her living converting old houses in the North etc to make what once were called bedsits and are now, I understand, described as bijou residences.
    I don't think, though, that hers are that multi-occupied, apart from partners.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kyf_100 said:

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    As TwistedFireStopper pointed out further down thread, there is a world of difference between three months of isolation in your nice, roomy detatched or semi-detached house with garden and living in a one bed flat/bedsit/squalid houseshare with no garden at all.

    Six or seven years ago, I had just bought my first flat, a fairly nondescript one bedroom shoebox in East London. After a big night out I ended up bringing a few people back to mine to carry on the party.

    I was amazed when one girl asked me how many people lived in the flat. She simply couldn't believe I had the whole place to myself. No partner, no flatmate, no-one living on the sofa bed in the lounge? Nope.

    She showed me a picture of where she lived. She shared - shared - a bedroom about half the size of mine with her partner. The only communal room in the house was the tiny kitchen, as the living room was used as another bedroom.

    That is the reality of a lot of people's living situations in London. Staying indoors ain't gonna cut it.
    Can someone come up up with a rationing scheme that would give safe fair access to open spaces in large urban environments?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:

    Just watching the Starmer interview. I missed Hancock's interview, are they all really denying that herd immunity is what is happening, whether we like it or not?

    They have to deny it, due to the bad perception it (wrongly) has due to an idiotic and mischief-making media. The key is to pursue it whilst simultaneously denying it.

    Herd immunity is the only game in town (as Luckyguy said earlier), at least until a vaccine is found (which we shouldn`t bank on).
    So already a mistake from Starmer. An obvious opportunity for him is to say "the government is pursuing a herd immunity strategy, and they are sacrificing factory workers etc. and protecting bankers, lawyers etc."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Trying to get to the 40 pushups that was in the challenge last week. Started at 22 now up to 34.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    nichomar said:

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    I thought he said it would be banned if people didn’t abide by the rules.
    He did.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814

    It is all good fun and games and no doubt the CMO will fall on her sword before the day is out but honestly, who bloody cares? This is not going to bring down Sturgeon or shatter the SNP. It is just the old, old story that the rules only apply to other people.
    I choose not to see it through the SNP/Sturgeon prism and more through the “whatever government of whatever colour she’s advising it’s a bloody silly thing to do and she can’t remain in her job” prism. Honestly couldn’t give two hoots about how it impacts on the SNP. At this time we need public figures to follow the advice to the letter. If they don’t, they need to fall on their sword. We are in a crisis here and we need those in charge to lead by example. Be that cabinet ministers, advisors or whatever.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    kyf_100 said:

    I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.

    As TwistedFireStopper pointed out further down thread, there is a world of difference between three months of isolation in your nice, roomy detatched or semi-detached house with garden and living in a one bed flat/bedsit/squalid houseshare with no garden at all.

    Six or seven years ago, I had just bought my first flat, a fairly nondescript one bedroom shoebox in East London. After a big night out I ended up bringing a few people back to mine to carry on the party.

    I was amazed when one girl asked me how many people lived in the flat. She simply couldn't believe I had the whole place to myself. No partner, no flatmate, no-one living on the sofa bed in the lounge? Nope.

    She showed me a picture of where she lived. She shared - shared - a bedroom about half the size of mine with her partner. The only communal room in the house was the tiny kitchen, as the living room was used as another bedroom.

    That is the reality of a lot of people's living situations in London. Staying indoors ain't gonna cut it.
    Not just London, either. Distant relation makes her living converting old houses in the North etc to make what once were called bedsits and are now, I understand, described as bijou residences.
    I don't think, though, that hers are that multi-occupied, apart from partners.
    This regular column is a treasure trove of such properties.

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/topic/london-rental-opportunity-of-the-week

    Some people actually live in places like this in normal times. Never mind during lockdown.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    if you drove somewhere to exercise, saw no one and drove home again, what moral code have you transgressed? Or have you contaminated the air with your miasma?

    On that basis, shopping must be banned too..
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    CD13 said:

    I'm beginning to worry now. In the days of the Black Death, people used to walk round in bird masks on the assumption it would frighten away the miasma which led to infection.

    Nuisance masks will only give a false feeling of confidence. The experts know this. Either mask up effectively or don't do it at all. "Oh but it will cut off the sneezes."

    Will it? Or will you take off the mask instinctively? Even if you collect the mess on the inside of the mask, you'll need to take it off, effectively contaminating your hands and spreading it on everything you touch unless you've been taught the proper procedures.

    Did the HSE die in vain?

    https://medium.com/@Cancerwarrior/covid-19-why-we-should-all-wear-masks-there-is-new-scientific-rationale-280e08ceee71
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    tlg86 said:

    Just watching the Starmer interview. I missed Hancock's interview, are they all really denying that herd immunity is what is happening, whether we like it or not?

    It's subtle. Herd immunity is the only way out, whether by vaccine or acquired infection. But it can't be admitted to as a policy goal because it sets up the argument 'why should we suffer to protect the old and vulnerable?'.
    Btw I think the chances of a vaccine arriving within 18 months are not better than 50:50, so the politicians should be softening us up to accept that restrictions will only be lifted when around three-quarters of us have had the infection.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    Very few people want both parts of that offer - it was just tried a few months ago, with catalclysmic results. Your only hope is slow demographic change overcoming our deep national antipathy to such a programme. By which point sensible people will have sold up and moved to a friendlier jurisdiction :smile:

    You're reading too much into Dec 12th. Brexit and Corbyn will not be factors next time. We can win from the Left.
    Maybe, but look at the US. The demographics there are vastly more favourable for your programme, and yet Bernie Sanders continues to get his clock cleaned again and again. CV-19 is a wild card for the entire world, but on the fundamentals a clever Tory Party should be able to exclude Kinabalu Labour (TM) from power for another couple of decades.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Good post, except for the bit about Michael McIntyre being amusing and entertaining.

    No, I don't see it either. "Britain's best loved" though apparently. That is what the stats say. But not a patch on James Corden for me.
    Just a reminder for those who have missed it: One Man Two Guvnors available on youtube for a few more days - then it's Jane Eyre.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/ntdiscovertheatre
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Coincidentally company I work for is making 91% less revenue than this time last year.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227

    Disliking Corbyn -- yes although it would be interesting to know what they were told about him.
    Liking Boris -- yes; Boris is charismatic and engaging.

    Policy should not be underestimated. Boris promised an end to austerity.

    Boris promised to get tough on crime; tough on the causes of crime largely by recruiting 20,000 new coppers.

    Boris promised not just the £350 million Brexit dividend for the NHS but 50 new hospitals and 30,000 new nurses.

    Boris promised to train and upskill workers for new jobs and technology.

    Boris promised to extend broadband to all parts of the country with government broadband infrastructure (although unlike Labour's offer, this was probably more a free gift to business than the end-user).

    Boris promised new railways in the North and Midlands.

    And so on and so forth. Boris won on policy, and on a platform inspired by Labour's near-miss in 2017 and counter to Cameron's and May's governments.

    Yes, the 'winning the argument' ... argument. Let's not forget that.

    All blown away by corona now, I guess.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    geoffw said:

    tlg86 said:

    Just watching the Starmer interview. I missed Hancock's interview, are they all really denying that herd immunity is what is happening, whether we like it or not?

    It's subtle. Herd immunity is the only way out, whether by vaccine or acquired infection. But it can't be admitted to as a policy goal because it sets up the argument 'why should we suffer to protect the old and vulnerable?'.
    Btw I think the chances of a vaccine arriving within 18 months are not better than 50:50, so the politicians should be softening us up to accept that restrictions will only be lifted when around three-quarters of us have had the infection.
    I guess the other reason for keeping quiet about it is that people might think "oh, well why are we bothering with this lockdown (to protect the NHS is the answer)."

    If Starmer is going along with that to help the government, then fair play to him.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?

    The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    NYTimes:

    As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.

    The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.

    But not Finland.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Stocky said:

    Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?

    Sunday cycling with my club. 68km. Normalised average power 177W.

    Bloody hell. I do 20km and think I'm Eddie Mercyx.
    Remco Evenpoel did a 20km ITT in 24 minutes at the Tour of Algarve. So there's your target.
    I don’t think I could have done that in my first car...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    NYTimes:

    As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.

    The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.

    But not Finland.

    How long until the Finns are called selfish bastards when hey decide not to give away their stockpiles? It's going to be so predictable that those who prepared best for any crisis will get shat on from the greatest height by those who didn't.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    edited April 2020
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited April 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Very few people want both parts of that offer - it was just tried a few months ago, with catalclysmic results. Your only hope is slow demographic change overcoming our deep national antipathy to such a programme. By which point sensible people will have sold up and moved to a friendlier jurisdiction :smile:

    You're reading too much into Dec 12th. Brexit and Corbyn will not be factors next time. We can win from the Left.
    Starmer will not get a majority from the socialist left, he might be able to form a government with the LDs on a social democratic platform but Ed Davey as the likely LD permanent leader would trim any push too far to the left from Labour.

    That would especially be the case as it would be LD gains from the Tories in wealthy southern Remain seats like Cities of London and Westminster, Esher and Walton and Wokingham and Cheltenham that would enable such a government to be formed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Solitary Fitness - You Don't Need a Fancy Gym or Expensive Gear to be as Fit as Me https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ALU7E2Q/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_kNBIEb0Z07HXG

    The guy is a nutter, but this is a surprisingly good book for those wanting fitness in a confined space and no equipment.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited April 2020
    Mr Borough,

    "From a practical and societal point of view, surgical or self-made masks, if handled properly, will at worst not hurt and may at best, help"

    Unfortunately, the phrase "if handled properly" is the issue. I'm well aware of the nature of droplets. The HSL in Buxton have done an awful lot of work on the advantages of correct RPE worn properly, but those last two words are key. The HSE website has plenty of advice.

    Perhaps we saw too much bad practice when I worked for HSE, and it made me cynical. hence my obsession with air-fed respirators when you're dealing with dangerous particles/droplets. They are expensive, but having spent a fortune already why stint at this for health workers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    kinabalu said:

    Very few people want both parts of that offer - it was just tried a few months ago, with catalclysmic results. Your only hope is slow demographic change overcoming our deep national antipathy to such a programme. By which point sensible people will have sold up and moved to a friendlier jurisdiction :smile:

    You're reading too much into Dec 12th. Brexit and Corbyn will not be factors next time. We can win from the Left.
    Maybe, but look at the US. The demographics there are vastly more favourable for your programme, and yet Bernie Sanders continues to get his clock cleaned again and again. CV-19 is a wild card for the entire world, but on the fundamentals a clever Tory Party should be able to exclude Kinabalu Labour (TM) from power for another couple of decades.
    Clever Tory Party. Surely an oxymoron.

    Devious, cunning, perhaps.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,259
    egg said:

    Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?

    The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.

    The government has its hands tied. It certainly doesn't have a database with all of us on. Each Department will have a database of its own customers with only the data it needs.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    MaxPB said:

    NYTimes:

    As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.

    The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.

    But not Finland.

    How long until the Finns are called selfish bastards when hey decide not to give away their stockpiles? It's going to be so predictable that those who prepared best for any crisis will get shat on from the greatest height by those who didn't.
    According to Anthony Beevor in his book on Stalingrad some German units had quartermasters that had started to ration their food even before the Russians surrounded them as they remembered what had happened in the previous winter. After they became trapped all the food was moved into central stores and so those who had already been on short rations due to prudent QMs were left worse prepared than they would otherwise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    NYTimes:

    As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.

    The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.

    But not Finland.

    Though others cannot win. This is France:

    https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1245668047223959555?s=19
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227

    Maybe, but look at the US. The demographics there are vastly more favourable for your programme, and yet Bernie Sanders continues to get his clock cleaned again and again. CV-19 is a wild card for the entire world, but on the fundamentals a clever Tory Party should be able to exclude Kinabalu Labour (TM) from power for another couple of decades.

    The US really is a mystery. But as it happens I am confident of a big swing to the Dems in November. Bernie? Well, he has made the weather there in many ways so I don't know about "getting his clock cleaned". If Trump wins again that will cause me to re-examine some of my beliefs, in particular my big one which is that people are on the whole more benign than malign and although irrational are not irredeemably stupid. Not that I'm comparing Trump and the Republicans to Johnson and the Conservatives, I must stress.
This discussion has been closed.