This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
Thank you. That's very helpful.
There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.
Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.
He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.
Some wounds wont heal..
Of course now that we have Got Brexit Done, that consideration is obsolete. Hunt is head and shoulders above anyone on the Government front bench, not that that is a very high bar.
My wife has just been sent home from her day shift at Winchester Hospital, too many nurses not enough patients
Wow. I've heard some rumours to that effect around where I live. There are allegedly 200 cases in total in Devon and I heard that A&E has been empty because people don't want to go near hospitals ...
Yesterday my daughter reported 170+ empty beds at Bournemouth hospital
Doctors in GP surgeries in parts of London (doing phone consultations only) are sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
Thank you. That's very helpful.
There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.
Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.
He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.
Some wounds wont heal..
You seem like the obsessive here.
I've seen no evidence that Hunt would have
Well obviously you haven't seen evidence. He wasn't PM or in office. What kind of an argument is that?
So your assertion that he would have avoided a lockdown if PM is a whimsical dream based on prejudice ?
No it was based on listening to his advice and speeches during the early stages.
Quite how you have dragged Brexit into this (what the fuck is Brexit) beats me but then you really do seem, as someone mentioned, an obsessive.
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
Crikey.
Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?
I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.
Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.
I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
The original British version is much more tightly scripted and, in my opinion, better acted.
Of course it was. It had Ian Richardson in it. Compared to Ian Richardson Kevin Spacey is Chris Martin to Donald Bradman.
Indeed. I'd actually forgotten Hunt was a remainer. Is that true? Was he?
Hunt made no bones in 2019 about the fact that he'd voted Remain in 2016: his summary of his failed 2019 leadership campaign was "'My remain vote was a hurdle we couldn't overcome'"
Like May, though, he repeatedly spent the intervening 3 years accepting in public the nonsensical "sunny uplands" inventions of the lunatic UKIP Lite gang who took over the Tory party.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Yesterday I saw a comment on social media: "as we were taking exercise in the park I was horrified to see groups of people sitting around."
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
Crikey.
Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?
I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.
Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.
I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
The original British version is much more tightly scripted and, in my opinion, better acted.
Of course it was. It had Ian Richardson in it. Compared to Ian Richardson Kevin Spacey is Chris Martin to Donald Bradman.
You might say that...
You might very well say that...
Edit - for those who do not know who Chris Martin was, here is a short video showcasing his batting prowess:
“ I suggest that means talking more about transport and less about trans rights, more about housing and hospitals and less about Hamas. ”
This is of course utterly correct. However Labour appear to have a group of 160 odd MPs who are incapable/ unwilling to talk about topics far from these strands of thought. Sir Keith needs to bring back a few MPs from the cold -Mrs Balls etc and perhaps dip into the Lords for some front benchers - and hide the Sultanas, Butlers and Abbotts in a locked cupboard.
If he puts the Sultanas in a cupboard, will it lead to sour grapes?
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
No. But Raab is First Secretary of State and is the nominated successor. The PM traditionally leaves advice for the Monarch on who to appoint if they die suddenly, going back to at least the Second World War.
Crikey.
Thank you. Not clear cut by any means then?
I hope Boris recovers, obviously. I certainly don't wish this hideous virus on any political opponent.
About as obscure as it possibly can be. Classic British fudge, forsooth.
Bear in mind that in our system of government technically there is no Prime Minister. There is a Minister nominated by the Sovereign to chair the cabinet. So in the absence of the nominated minister, the Sovereign nominates another one.
I love it!! We are a quite amazing nation. I guess we get away with it except in a severe crisis. So I hope this one isn't tested.
I've started re-watching the wonderful House of Cards (despite KS) and of course Frank Underwood's great play for office was to secure the Vice Presidency.
The original British version is much more tightly scripted and, in my opinion, better acted.
Of course it was. It had Ian Richardson in it. Compared to Ian Richardson Kevin Spacey is Chris Martin to Donald Bradman.
The man has already proved he is a fecking arse! Calling things which haven't yet happened "gross errors and mistakes". Obviously he knows what is being discussed at Cobra meetings. Supporting the Prime Minister in one sentence and cutting his legs away in the next. He can feck himself!
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
Thank you. That's very helpful.
There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.
Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.
He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.
Some wounds wont heal..
You seem like the obsessive here.
I've seen no evidence that Hunt would have
Well obviously you haven't seen evidence. He wasn't PM or in office. What kind of an argument is that?
So your assertion that he would have avoided a lockdown if PM is a whimsical dream based on prejudice ?
No it was based on listening to his advice and speeches during the early stages.
Yet he was Health secretary until about 8 months ago - why didn't he get the NHS ready for such an event by reforming it ?
This is going to sound distasteful and I don't mean it to. However, picking up something Mike wrote that Johnson 'could go for whatever reason' ... If he did succumb to this horrible virus, who would be next PM? I'm asking from a betting point of view.
Is there a) an automatic new PM from the current line up or b) a new leadership election?
(Johnson 'still has a cough and a high temperature' - today's Sunday Times.)
Dominic Raab would be appointed PM, then there would be a leadership election.
It depends a little on whether the betting companies would regard Raab as PM (which in law he would be) or acting PM (which in practice he might be).
This is however ample reason to wish Mr Johnson a speedy and complete recovery...
Exactly the same process as if a PM had a heart attack or car accident etc in normal times. The process remains unchanged.
That doesn't answer the question.
The point about whether the betting companies would honour it is interesting.
By the way, why would Dominic Raab automatically be made PM? Is that on Boris' fiat? Do we have a constitutional Deputy PM in the same way that the US has a VP?
I understood that the process was that the Cabinet would agree amongst themselves. It is a matter for the Executive and the Queen. The Parliamentary role (securing confidence via a vote on the Queens Speech - a bit confused now by the FTPA which has god knows what impact) comes later.
Thank you. That's very helpful.
There is this thing that Raab has been made “designated survivor”. So not withstanding the above I think it should be assumed it would be him. I guess this explains why he has been doing the daily briefings on a periodic basis in Johnson’s absence.
Although so has Michael Gove and I've heard chuntering on the press wires that a number of people think he'd be a better PM in this crisis.
Someone mentioned Matt Hancock. I can't stand him personally and nor can a lot of people I know. Something about his face and voice that oozes insincerity on every level.
Gove is a useless arsehole, he could not run a bath. Hancock would only be marginally better.
As you may know, in my opinion the standout Conservative politician in this crisis has been Jeremy Hunt.
He'd have handled this 1000x better and I don't believe we'd now be in lockdown.
Of course Hunt would have been better - because REMAINER.
Some wounds wont heal..
You seem like the obsessive here.
I've seen no evidence that Hunt would have
Well obviously you haven't seen evidence. He wasn't PM or in office. What kind of an argument is that?
So your assertion that he would have avoided a lockdown if PM is a whimsical dream based on prejudice ?
No it was based on listening to his advice and speeches during the early stages.
Quite how you have dragged Brexit into this (what the fuck is Brexit) beats me but then you really do seem, as someone mentioned, an obsessive.
On the other hand you do seem to be a bit on the paranoid side. Although a slightly confused one. IMO, of course. A full body wash every time a delivery is made to your house? But still happy to step outside with only a face mask for protection. Get a grip of yourself.
As I see it there are two possibilities for the government.
Either people remember the delay and arguable incompetence around testing and ventilators and register this at the ballot box four years hence, or they treat it as part of the fog of war and deem they did a good job on the whole.
Knowing peoples' usual retention of political issues I would plump for the latter.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Well quite. This business is rubbish enough without pointlessly harassing people who are doing no harm and quietly having a moment’s respite.
It will be hard for people living in inner city social housing not to develop Grenfell like anger at being told to stay in by posh, Rich, white people with big gardens in the country. Could be trouble ahead.
When Chris Witty comes on the tv telling people to stay at home, I have noticed the broadcast is introduced by a man who sounds black. I was thinking that the message was being delivered by what night seem an out of touch elite, maybe this was done to make it more inclusive.
I could be wrong about the voice over actors ethnicity mind you
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
The man has already proved he is a fecking arse! Calling things which haven't yet happened "gross errors and mistakes". Obviously he knows what is being discussed at Cobra meetings. Supporting the Prime Minister in one sentence and cutting his legs away in the next. He can feck himself!
Called for a National Vaccination programme though. Must have spotted something that nobody else has publicly called for. Might be congratulating himself for raising it - possibly saved the country already. As long as the Govt listens to him.
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Well quite. This business is rubbish enough without pointlessly harassing people who are doing no harm and quietly having a moment’s respite.
It will be hard for people living in inner city social housing not to develop Grenfell like anger at being told to stay in by posh, Rich, white people with big gardens in the country. Could be trouble ahead.
When Chris Witty comes on the tv telling people to stay at home, I have noticed the broadcast is introduced by a man who sounds black. I was thinking that the message was being delivered by what night seem an out of touch elite, maybe this was done to make it more inclusive.
I could be wrong about the voice over actors ethnicity mind you
The man has already proved he is a fecking arse! Calling things which haven't yet happened "gross errors and mistakes". Obviously he knows what is being discussed at Cobra meetings. Supporting the Prime Minister in one sentence and cutting his legs away in the next. He can feck himself!
1. I doubt he has attended a COBR meeting yet 2. It makes sense to plan ahead for when a vaccine is available. 3. It’s his job to criticise when they think things are going adrift. It’s his job.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Well quite. This business is rubbish enough without pointlessly harassing people who are doing no harm and quietly having a moment’s respite.
It will be hard for people living in inner city social housing not to develop Grenfell like anger at being told to stay in by posh, Rich, white people with big gardens in the country. Could be trouble ahead.
When Chris Witty comes on the tv telling people to stay at home, I have noticed the broadcast is introduced by a man who sounds black. I was thinking that the message was being delivered by what night seem an out of touch elite, maybe this was done to make it more inclusive.
I could be wrong about the voice over actors ethnicity mind you
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I reckon you can improve on the sequencing. Doesn’t sound to me like a critical path.
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Well quite. This business is rubbish enough without pointlessly harassing people who are doing no harm and quietly having a moment’s respite.
Sure, I've got a big garden, but most people don't. People would go stir crazy if they could not step outside.
Is Chris Witty back at work yet, by the way? There’ve been updates on Hancock and Johnson, but haven’t heard anything from him. And did Vallance go down with it as well?
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Well quite. This business is rubbish enough without pointlessly harassing people who are doing no harm and quietly having a moment’s respite.
It will be hard for people living in inner city social housing not to develop Grenfell like anger at being told to stay in by posh, Rich, white people with big gardens in the country. Could be trouble ahead.
When Chris Witty comes on the tv telling people to stay at home, I have noticed the broadcast is introduced by a man who sounds black. I was thinking that the message was being delivered by what night seem an out of touch elite, maybe this was done to make it more inclusive.
I could be wrong about the voice over actors ethnicity mind you
Apart from his lack of communication skills, it perhaps isn't ideal that the message comes from a man who caught the virus while not socially distancing.
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I reckon you can improve on the sequencing. Doesn’t sound to me like a critical path.
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
Been out for a 10k timed to arrive when the pizza got in.
It's fascinating to see how middle England/middle Britain has changed since even the Blair years. Places like Swindon, Milton Keynes, and the marginals you mentioned still remain in play for both parties. But, the path to a Labour government no longer runs through North Kent, or small to medium-sized towns in the Midlands. And the former coalfields continue to swing away from Labour.
Conversely, plenty of urban constituencies where the Conservatives were challenging strongly throughout 2001 - 15 are now completely out of reach; and some that were safe, like Chingford or Kensington are now hanging on a thread.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Well quite. This business is rubbish enough without pointlessly harassing people who are doing no harm and quietly having a moment’s respite.
It will be hard for people living in inner city social housing not to develop Grenfell like anger at being told to stay in by posh, Rich, white people with big gardens in the country. Could be trouble ahead.
When Chris Witty comes on the tv telling people to stay at home, I have noticed the broadcast is introduced by a man who sounds black. I was thinking that the message was being delivered by what night seem an out of touch elite, maybe this was done to make it more inclusive.
I could be wrong about the voice over actors ethnicity mind you
Apart from his lack of communication skills, it perhaps isn't ideal that the message comes from a man who caught the virus while not socially distancing.
I'm sure we could go round the entire Peak District edge and Cheshire picking out a dozen seats with this interplay, seeing slightly less trendy post-industrial small places moving blue (Penistone & Stockbridge) and more trendy ones moving red (Staffs Moorlands would be a big ask for Labour, but I'd guess would trend red over time).
And the point is, everywhere has a commutable rural edge where this mix will.exist and which to some extent is seeing a flight from towns.
I wonder if we aren't still guilty of thinking in BC (Before Corona) mode?
If (for example) the NHS were to adopt a buy-British policy in future, that would mean lots of manufacturing jobs coming back. Where will those jobs go? Who will the workers vote for?
Is Chris Witty back at work yet, by the way? There’ve been updates on Hancock and Johnson, but haven’t heard anything from him. And did Vallance go down with it as well?
Labour have comprehensively won the battle with the Lib Dems for urban progressives. There is not a single Lib Dem-held seat in Labour’s first 250 targets. And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.
Whilst this is true, the Lib Dems are still very much of the equation...
...Labour can probably form a government so long as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems tally a combined 320 seats or so.
Would Labour ever consider doing a deal with the Lib Dems? Would the two parties benefit from giving the other a free run in seats such as:
For Labour (LD votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Kensington (9,162) Watford (4,890) Chipping Barnet (4,720) Warrington South (3,722) Truro and Falmouth (2,589) Southport (2,352) Wycombe (2,329) High Peak (2,160) Burnley (2,149) Rushcliffe (1,957) Bury South (1,913) North West Durham (1,687) Gedling (1,600) Chingford and Woodford Green (1,482) Delyn (1,481)
There are a further 16 seats where the Lib Dem vote was more than the Tory majority.
For the Lib Dems (Labour votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Wimbledon (11,915) Cities of London and Westminster (7,671) Finchley and Golders Green (6,785) Carshalton and Wallington (5,452) South Cambridgeshire (4,899) Cheadle (4,515) Hitchin and Harpenden (3,064) Cheltenham (1,940) Winchester (1,738) Guildford (1,178) Hazel Grove (1,085) Lewes (749) Esher and Walton (95)
These are the only 13 seats that the Labour vote was more than the Tory majority. However, there are other seats (Chelsea and Fulham, Eastbourne, St Ives, Wokingham, Woking and South East Cambridgeshire) where the majority was fewer than 1,000 votes more than the Labour vote.
Obviously this would be a big deal for Labour. But given that it is difficult to see Labour winning an outright majority at the next election, why not do a deal that might be deny the Tories a majority?
What are the chances that Labour might back PR (by STV)?
Not impossible. It becomes the rational choice when Labour decides that there can never be a Labour majority FPTP but can be a centre left majority in terms of total votes.
Is Chris Witty back at work yet, by the way? There’ve been updates on Hancock and Johnson, but haven’t heard anything from him. And did Vallance go down with it as well?
Labour have comprehensively won the battle with the Lib Dems for urban progressives. There is not a single Lib Dem-held seat in Labour’s first 250 targets. And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.
Whilst this is true, the Lib Dems are still very much of the equation...
...Labour can probably form a government so long as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems tally a combined 320 seats or so.
Would Labour ever consider doing a deal with the Lib Dems? Would the two parties benefit from giving the other a free run in seats such as:
For Labour (LD votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Kensington (9,162) Watford (4,890) Chipping Barnet (4,720) Warrington South (3,722) Truro and Falmouth (2,589) Southport (2,352) Wycombe (2,329) High Peak (2,160) Burnley (2,149) Rushcliffe (1,957) Bury South (1,913) North West Durham (1,687) Gedling (1,600) Chingford and Woodford Green (1,482) Delyn (1,481)
There are a further 16 seats where the Lib Dem vote was more than the Tory majority.
For the Lib Dems (Labour votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Wimbledon (11,915) Cities of London and Westminster (7,671) Finchley and Golders Green (6,785) Carshalton and Wallington (5,452) South Cambridgeshire (4,899) Cheadle (4,515) Hitchin and Harpenden (3,064) Cheltenham (1,940) Winchester (1,738) Guildford (1,178) Hazel Grove (1,085) Lewes (749) Esher and Walton (95)
These are the only 13 seats that the Labour vote was more than the Tory majority. However, there are other seats (Chelsea and Fulham, Eastbourne, St Ives, Wokingham, Woking and South East Cambridgeshire) where the majority was fewer than 1,000 votes more than the Labour vote.
Obviously this would be a big deal for Labour. But given that it is difficult to see Labour winning an outright majority at the next election, why not do a deal that might be deny the Tories a majority?
What are the chances that Labour might back PR (by STV)?
Not impossible. It becomes the rational choice when Labour decides that there can never be a Labour majority FPTP but can be a centre left majority in terms of total votes.
Picking a voting system based on how it benefits your own party is inevitable I suppose, but it is not a good look.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Crazy
Crazy to go out yes. If you let one out everyone will go out. Some people are just too stupid to realise how dangerous this thing is. Take the advice Stay home stay safe.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
Labour have comprehensively won the battle with the Lib Dems for urban progressives. There is not a single Lib Dem-held seat in Labour’s first 250 targets. And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.
Whilst this is true, the Lib Dems are still very much of the equation...
...Labour can probably form a government so long as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems tally a combined 320 seats or so.
Would Labour ever consider doing a deal with the Lib Dems? Would the two parties benefit from giving the other a free run in seats such as:
For Labour (LD votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Kensington (9,162) Watford (4,890) Chipping Barnet (4,720) Warrington South (3,722) Truro and Falmouth (2,589) Southport (2,352) Wycombe (2,329) High Peak (2,160) Burnley (2,149) Rushcliffe (1,957) Bury South (1,913) North West Durham (1,687) Gedling (1,600) Chingford and Woodford Green (1,482) Delyn (1,481)
There are a further 16 seats where the Lib Dem vote was more than the Tory majority.
For the Lib Dems (Labour votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Wimbledon (11,915) Cities of London and Westminster (7,671) Finchley and Golders Green (6,785) Carshalton and Wallington (5,452) South Cambridgeshire (4,899) Cheadle (4,515) Hitchin and Harpenden (3,064) Cheltenham (1,940) Winchester (1,738) Guildford (1,178) Hazel Grove (1,085) Lewes (749) Esher and Walton (95)
These are the only 13 seats that the Labour vote was more than the Tory majority. However, there are other seats (Chelsea and Fulham, Eastbourne, St Ives, Wokingham, Woking and South East Cambridgeshire) where the majority was fewer than 1,000 votes more than the Labour vote.
Obviously this would be a big deal for Labour. But given that it is difficult to see Labour winning an outright majority at the next election, why not do a deal that might be deny the Tories a majority?
What are the chances that Labour might back PR (by STV)?
Not impossible. It becomes the rational choice when Labour decides that there can never be a Labour majority FPTP but can be a centre left majority in terms of total votes.
Picking a voting system based on how it benefits your own party is inevitable I suppose, but it is not a good look.
It’s how the 1867, 1885, 1918 and 1948 reforms went through.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Crazy
Crazy to go out yes. If you let one out everyone will go out. Some people are just too stupid to realise how dangerous this thing is. Take the advice Stay home stay safe.
Of course if everyone behaved responsibly there would be no problem with people driving off to remote locations to exercise safely.
But anyone with two brain cells to rub together should be able to see how much harder that would make it to deal with the selfish morons who aren't responsible.
So responsible people are being penalised because of the actions of irresponsible morons. That's hardly anything new.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
If everyone living in central London took govt advice literally and only went for walks (no driving to destinations) in the close proximity of their homes the streets would be packed.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
The problem is not yesterday’s sunbathers socially distancing say 40 in a park, that becomes 140 the next day because ‘they got away with it so we can as well’ It then grows to groups taking a few cans etc etc. that’s why the police are acting like they are, give an inch and people will take a mile.
Is Chris Witty back at work yet, by the way? There’ve been updates on Hancock and Johnson, but haven’t heard anything from him. And did Vallance go down with it as well?
No word on Cummings either.
How are you?
OK, back at work now. Mrs Foxy a bit flat and post viral.
Indeed, am rather enjoying the lockdown. It's like a Seventies Sunday, nothing to do but gardening. Compared to running the gauntlet again on Monday, quite pleasant. Life seems more precious than ever.
And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.
There is the point made yesterday, I’m afraid I forget by whom, that the LD’s do better under ‘moderate’ Labour leaders because wavering Tory voters perceive less risk of letting in a Corbyn-type by default.
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I reckon you can improve on the sequencing. Doesn’t sound to me like a critical path.
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
Been out for a 10k timed to arrive when the pizza got in.
And there was me, thinking it a moment of quiet reflection about not having bought that flamethrower to dispose of the pizza box....
I'm sure we could go round the entire Peak District edge and Cheshire picking out a dozen seats with this interplay, seeing slightly less trendy post-industrial small places moving blue (Penistone & Stockbridge) and more trendy ones moving red (Staffs Moorlands would be a big ask for Labour, but I'd guess would trend red over time).
And the point is, everywhere has a commutable rural edge where this mix will.exist and which to some extent is seeing a flight from towns.
I wonder if we aren't still guilty of thinking in BC (Before Corona) mode?
If (for example) the NHS were to adopt a buy-British policy in future, that would mean lots of manufacturing jobs coming back. Where will those jobs go? Who will the workers vote for?
Historically the party that is streets ahead in the game of becoming a different party while keeping the old name is the Conservatives. No-one else comes close. Expect it to happen again post-virus. It's quite possible that while Labour is having internal rows with its anti Semites, Trots, Hamas huggers, shroud wavers, bogus human rights supporters, dinosaur teachers and benefits junkies, silencing the excellent people within is ranks, the Tories will be reinventing themselves as Heseltine centrists with a populist rhetoric.
Labour have comprehensively won the battle with the Lib Dems for urban progressives. There is not a single Lib Dem-held seat in Labour’s first 250 targets. And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.
Whilst this is true, the Lib Dems are still very much of the equation...
...Labour can probably form a government so long as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems tally a combined 320 seats or so.
Would Labour ever consider doing a deal with the Lib Dems? Would the two parties benefit from giving the other a free run in seats such as:
For Labour (LD votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Kensington (9,162) Watford (4,890) Chipping Barnet (4,720) Warrington South (3,722) Truro and Falmouth (2,589) Southport (2,352) Wycombe (2,329) High Peak (2,160) Burnley (2,149) Rushcliffe (1,957) Bury South (1,913) North West Durham (1,687) Gedling (1,600) Chingford and Woodford Green (1,482) Delyn (1,481)
There are a further 16 seats where the Lib Dem vote was more than the Tory majority.
For the Lib Dems (Labour votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Wimbledon (11,915) Cities of London and Westminster (7,671) Finchley and Golders Green (6,785) Carshalton and Wallington (5,452) South Cambridgeshire (4,899) Cheadle (4,515) Hitchin and Harpenden (3,064) Cheltenham (1,940) Winchester (1,738) Guildford (1,178) Hazel Grove (1,085) Lewes (749) Esher and Walton (95)
These are the only 13 seats that the Labour vote was more than the Tory majority. However, there are other seats (Chelsea and Fulham, Eastbourne, St Ives, Wokingham, Woking and South East Cambridgeshire) where the majority was fewer than 1,000 votes more than the Labour vote.
Obviously this would be a big deal for Labour. But given that it is difficult to see Labour winning an outright majority at the next election, why not do a deal that might be deny the Tories a majority?
What are the chances that Labour might back PR (by STV)?
They always do that when they need Liberal or Lib Dem votes. So the chances are probably quite good.
And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.
There is the point made yesterday, I’m afraid I forget by whom, that the LD’s do better under ‘moderate’ Labour leaders because wavering Tory voters perceive less risk of letting in a Corbyn-type by default.
Also more congenial relations between LD, Lab and Greens make tactical voting easier.
Mr. Nichomar, not only that, social distancing requires everyone to be sensible. If one person in a hundred is a moron, that affect the others even though they're not doing anything wrong themselves.
Not always easy, though. Local shop has narrow aisles and sometimes it's literally impossible to stay six feet away from people all the time. But food isn't exactly optional.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
The next month [or two] are going to be very difficult for the UK. Italy and Spain are probably at or a little beyond the peak - both countries are expecting lockdown to continue in full force until May with only gradual lifting afterwards. With the UK 2/3 weeks behind there is little prospect of loosening until the end of May. It's all very well for SKS to talk about the post-virus plan but I'm unclear anyone appreciates just how far off that will be if the screws are loosened too soon or too much. If the threads on here are in any way typical of the general mood in the UK [thankfully probably not] the country could be heading for a worse outcome.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
It’s the rhetoric vs reality gap. The daily press conferences are an error, should be twice a week. There is a perverse incentive to announce things rather than deliver things.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Trouble is, people are creatures of habit. The Govt. COULD say go out in your car, but find a spot to park it at least 50 yards from another. But these folk would all still go to the one spot they know, cheek by jowl in the car park with everyone else. Thinking THEY were the ones entitled to carry on doing exactly what they did before.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Fair point but Brockwell Park is the local open space for an urban population. People are not driving 100 miles to this London Borough of Lambeth beauty spot.
Good article from Alastair. I also believe a Starmer-led Labour party - especially in a post-crisis world - is far less likely to terrify potential Tory to LD switchers. And every seat the LDs can take from the Tories makes Labour’s task that little less daunting.
Labour have comprehensively won the battle with the Lib Dems for urban progressives. There is not a single Lib Dem-held seat in Labour’s first 250 targets. And if the Lib Dems were not going to make advances against Labour led by a leader tainted by accusations of anti-Semitism and half-heartedness on Brexit, they probably never will.
Whilst this is true, the Lib Dems are still very much of the equation...
...Labour can probably form a government so long as Labour, the SNP and the Lib Dems tally a combined 320 seats or so.
Would Labour ever consider doing a deal with the Lib Dems? Would the two parties benefit from giving the other a free run in seats such as:
For Labour (LD votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Kensington (9,162) Watford (4,890) Chipping Barnet (4,720) Warrington South (3,722) Truro and Falmouth (2,589) Southport (2,352) Wycombe (2,329) High Peak (2,160) Burnley (2,149) Rushcliffe (1,957) Bury South (1,913) North West Durham (1,687) Gedling (1,600) Chingford and Woodford Green (1,482) Delyn (1,481)
There are a further 16 seats where the Lib Dem vote was more than the Tory majority.
For the Lib Dems (Labour votes in excess of the Tory majority):
Wimbledon (11,915) Cities of London and Westminster (7,671) Finchley and Golders Green (6,785) Carshalton and Wallington (5,452) South Cambridgeshire (4,899) Cheadle (4,515) Hitchin and Harpenden (3,064) Cheltenham (1,940) Winchester (1,738) Guildford (1,178) Hazel Grove (1,085) Lewes (749) Esher and Walton (95)
These are the only 13 seats that the Labour vote was more than the Tory majority. However, there are other seats (Chelsea and Fulham, Eastbourne, St Ives, Wokingham, Woking and South East Cambridgeshire) where the majority was fewer than 1,000 votes more than the Labour vote.
Obviously this would be a big deal for Labour. But given that it is difficult to see Labour winning an outright majority at the next election, why not do a deal that might be deny the Tories a majority?
What are the chances that Labour might back PR (by STV)?
They always do that when they need Liberal or Lib Dem votes. So the chances are probably quite good.
As long as you remember the betrayal to follow when they do win.
Edit: Also predicting how people will vote on the basis a changed electoral system ignores the fact that many voters will change their votes because of it.
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I reckon you can improve on the sequencing. Doesn’t sound to me like a critical path.
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
Been out for a 10k timed to arrive when the pizza got in.
And there was me, thinking it a moment of quiet reflection about not having bought that flamethrower to dispose of the pizza box....
Personally, I won't touch takeaway, as the risk is from aerosol and droplet spread in the kitchen. I am not eating anything myself not cooked by ourselves or in sealed packing and kept for several days.
While viral antigen can be detected, live virus expires fairly quickly on packaging.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Fair point but Brockwell Park is the local open space for an urban population. People are not driving 100 miles to this London Borough of Lambeth beauty spot.
The same principle applies.
Stay at home unless you comply with the 4 reasons for leaving home.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
It’s the rhetoric vs reality gap. The daily press conferences are an error, should be twice a week. There is a perverse incentive to announce things rather than deliver things.
Fair point.. but the problem is that the media would go nuts without its daily update.. how else do they fill their schedules/newpapers
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Trouble is, people are creatures of habit. The Govt. COULD say go out in your car, but find a spot to park it at least 50 yards from another. But these folk would all still go to the one spot they know, cheek by jowl in the car park with everyone else. Thinking THEY were the ones entitled to carry on doing exactly what they did before.
A consequence perhaps of a policy of encouraging a high proportion of visitors into a tiny proportion of space. There are vast swathes of rural UK, including in national parks, that are practically or even absolutely empty more or less all of the time.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
It’s the rhetoric vs reality gap. The daily press conferences are an error, should be twice a week. There is a perverse incentive to announce things rather than deliver things.
I agree, a simple press release on numbers each day and press conference a couple of times per week is plenty.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
It’s the rhetoric vs reality gap. The daily press conferences are an error, should be twice a week. There is a perverse incentive to announce things rather than deliver things.
Fair point.. but the problem is that the media would go nuts without its daily update.. how else do they fill their schedules/newpapers
Who cares. Governments primarily job is not to feed the media.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
It’s the rhetoric vs reality gap. The daily press conferences are an error, should be twice a week. There is a perverse incentive to announce things rather than deliver things.
I agree, a simple press release on numbers each day and press conference a couple of times per week is plenty.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Trouble is, people are creatures of habit. The Govt. COULD say go out in your car, but find a spot to park it at least 50 yards from another. But these folk would all still go to the one spot they know, cheek by jowl in the car park with everyone else. Thinking THEY were the ones entitled to carry on doing exactly what they did before.
A consequence perhaps of a policy of encouraging a high proportion of visitors into a tiny proportion of space. There are vast swathes of rural UK, including in national parks, that are practically or even absolutely empty more or less all of the time.
Really? Dartmoor is better than most because we are that much further from megacities. Lakes, peak and Snowdonia are horrific all the time by the look of it.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
It’s the rhetoric vs reality gap. The daily press conferences are an error, should be twice a week. There is a perverse incentive to announce things rather than deliver things.
Fair point.. but the problem is that the media would go nuts without its daily update.. how else do they fill their schedules/newpapers
Who cares. Governments primarily job is not to feed the media.
So the government should focus on fighting the crisis or feeding the press? If you really need to, on the off days let the monarchy, the opposition or the nations have a go. Send Charles out, he should be immune.
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I reckon you can improve on the sequencing. Doesn’t sound to me like a critical path.
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
Been out for a 10k timed to arrive when the pizza got in.
And there was me, thinking it a moment of quiet reflection about not having bought that flamethrower to dispose of the pizza box....
Personally, I won't touch takeaway, as the risk is from aerosol and droplet spread in the kitchen. I am not eating anything myself not cooked by ourselves or in sealed packing and kept for several days.
While viral antigen can be detected, live virus expires fairly quickly on packaging.
I suspect that when we get the post mortem on this event, we will discover that aerosol and droplet spread accounted for 90%+ of infections and that there was actually a minimal risk from packaging. Not that I'm taking any chances, mind.
Communal singing might prove to have been a real horror. The theatre. Football chants. Bellowing on your horse at Cheltenham. Things where masks make a huge difference.
Here in SE Spain the Police are already in place with motorway and other roadblocks to prevent people heading here for the Easter break to second homes. There is a massive operation going on with lots of publicity about it. Again - reading many of the comments on here suggests many of you have no real idea of the scale of the problem you have. Our cities are at least as high rise as yours with few places for people to exercise, etc. Yet all I read is 'but, but, but, exception, exception, exception. Simply unreal.
Families who live in flats should be allowed to sit in the sun in the park. Done right it harms no-one and makes social isolation more effective long-term.
I have a colleague with two young children in a flat. It would be ridiculous for the police to move them along, let them have a picnic and a little play.
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes. You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Maybe, if they stayed in their cars. But they don´t, do they? They stop at petrol stations, need toilets, get out to stretch their legs, to eat their picnics etc etc.
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I reckon you can improve on the sequencing. Doesn’t sound to me like a critical path.
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
Been out for a 10k timed to arrive when the pizza got in.
And there was me, thinking it a moment of quiet reflection about not having bought that flamethrower to dispose of the pizza box....
Personally, I won't touch takeaway, as the risk is from aerosol and droplet spread in the kitchen. I am not eating anything myself not cooked by ourselves or in sealed packing and kept for several days.
While viral antigen can be detected, live virus expires fairly quickly on packaging.
There are risks with that.
I had a corn cobette diet for several days when I accidentally desfrosted an entire bag of them in the hall Quarantine Trolley, rather than putting them in the Plague Drawer in the freezer.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Trouble is, people are creatures of habit. The Govt. COULD say go out in your car, but find a spot to park it at least 50 yards from another. But these folk would all still go to the one spot they know, cheek by jowl in the car park with everyone else. Thinking THEY were the ones entitled to carry on doing exactly what they did before.
A consequence perhaps of a policy of encouraging a high proportion of visitors into a tiny proportion of space. There are vast swathes of rural UK, including in national parks, that are practically or even absolutely empty more or less all of the time.
Dartmoor could cope with vast numbers taking sensible exercise. But I can see how that becomes a problem when half a million decide to go to Greenwich for an afternoon stroll. I was there on a lovely sunny day in early summer a couple of years ago. The numbers were immense, without any pressures from a public going stir crazy after lock-down.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Trouble is, people are creatures of habit. The Govt. COULD say go out in your car, but find a spot to park it at least 50 yards from another. But these folk would all still go to the one spot they know, cheek by jowl in the car park with everyone else. Thinking THEY were the ones entitled to carry on doing exactly what they did before.
A consequence perhaps of a policy of encouraging a high proportion of visitors into a tiny proportion of space. There are vast swathes of rural UK, including in national parks, that are practically or even absolutely empty more or less all of the time.
Really? Dartmoor is better than most because we are that much further from megacities. Lakes, peak and Snowdonia are horrific all the time by the look of it.
Appearances are extremely deceptive, and are usually of the same few places. Try nearly all of Lincolnshire nearly all the time, the entire area covered by the Southern Upland Way, most of Northumberland, even much of Sussex once you are off road, North Norfolk away from the coast........I could go on
Marr on. Let's see what Starmer says / does. Did a lengthy Zoom quiz last night with my Laboir friends, several of us former Labour with the others enquiring as to our availability. Starmer's challenge will be in places like my former branch, where every councillor is now independent and the MP Tory with a large turnout of former Labour voters going Tory last December.
The BLPs solution? Posting Covid19 conspiracy articles by "Socialist Appeal" and opining that voters shpuldnt be afraid of Marx and should be gently educated on the subject. Marx is really popular apparently as witnessed by the big Marxist gathering in (now has a Tory MP) Sedgefield.
If Starmer clearly states that such lunacy is a scurge that must be surgically removed then I might be interested. If he wants to pander to them, he'll be useless
Here in SE Spain the Police are already in place with motorway and other roadblocks to prevent people heading here for the Easter break to second homes. There is a massive operation going on with lots of publicity about it. Again - reading many of the comments on here suggests many of you have no real idea of the scale of the problem you have. Our cities are at least as high rise as yours with few places for people to exercise, etc. Yet all I read is 'but, but, but, exception, exception, exception. Simply unreal.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Families who live in flats should be allowed to sit in the sun in the park. Done right it harms no-one and makes social isolation more effective long-term.
I have a colleague with two young children in a flat. It would be ridiculous for the police to move them along, let them have a picnic and a little play.
Quite right. And FWIW, the term 'exercise' is the relevant one. There is no reason why 'exercise' should not embrace mental, spiritual and awareness forms of exercise just as much as physical.
Good article from Alastair. I also believe a Starmer-led Labour party - especially in a post-crisis world - is far less likely to terrify potential Tory to LD switchers. And every seat the LDs can take from the Tories makes Labour’s task that little less daunting.
I think you are absolutely right. I also believe Johnson's 80 seat majority possibly serves to deceive.
I know many voters here in the Vale of Glamorgan who are not normally of the Conservative faith, disliked Johnson's cavalier approach to everything and found Alun Cairn's behaviour over the Ross England affair to be contemptible. Despite all those issues, when inside the polling booth they couldn't bring themselves to vote in any way that might might allow Corbyn and a disgraced Labour Party near 10 Downing Street.
If Boris gets the response to Covid-19 right he is unassailable whoever leads the opposition. If he gets Coronavirus wrong, or still gets everything right but fortune and statistics don't fall his way, the path to 10 Downing Street could be a lot less bumpy for Starmer than it looks at present.
For Starmer nay-sayers, Laura Kuenssberg's report on Starmer's victory on yesterday's BBC News will cheer you up. She is clearly not a fan.
What Alastair’s excellent piece highlights is that Labour’s pretensions to represent the working class is nothing more than a dinner party fantasy. They in fact represent the largely public sector professional class who are protected from the economic consequences of their policies by the largesse of the state. Starmer seems to me to be the perfect leader for such a party.
So Labour will continue to thrive in University towns, in places with a large number of urban professionals including the towns they commute from. I see the breaking of the red wall as a process, not an event. Traditional Labour seats find that they have increasingly less and less in common with this middle class bureaucracy and it’s obsessions and I suspect more of them will drift away. I don’t think that Starmer is the person to stop this process.
Of course if the Tories are thought to have mis-handled the economic carnage about to descend upon us none of this will matter. We live in volatile and slightly frightening times where conventional analysis has a deckchair on the Titanic feel to it.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Trouble is, people are creatures of habit. The Govt. COULD say go out in your car, but find a spot to park it at least 50 yards from another. But these folk would all still go to the one spot they know, cheek by jowl in the car park with everyone else. Thinking THEY were the ones entitled to carry on doing exactly what they did before.
A consequence perhaps of a policy of encouraging a high proportion of visitors into a tiny proportion of space. There are vast swathes of rural UK, including in national parks, that are practically or even absolutely empty more or less all of the time.
Really? Dartmoor is better than most because we are that much further from megacities. Lakes, peak and Snowdonia are horrific all the time by the look of it.
Cannock Chase is hardly far from large conurbations - Stoke, Stafford, Birmingham - yet it seems practically deserted. Even though people are parking on the verges to dodge the closure of all the car parks, there aren’t many cars.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
Trouble is, people are creatures of habit. The Govt. COULD say go out in your car, but find a spot to park it at least 50 yards from another. But these folk would all still go to the one spot they know, cheek by jowl in the car park with everyone else. Thinking THEY were the ones entitled to carry on doing exactly what they did before.
A consequence perhaps of a policy of encouraging a high proportion of visitors into a tiny proportion of space. There are vast swathes of rural UK, including in national parks, that are practically or even absolutely empty more or less all of the time.
Really? Dartmoor is better than most because we are that much further from megacities. Lakes, peak and Snowdonia are horrific all the time by the look of it.
The issue, in most cases, seems to be the point of initial access/car parks rather than places of exercise themselves. Although it’s easy to take pictures of packed car parks and conclude/imply, often wrongly, that they correlate to lots of people closely grouped. Which of course they don’t with people arriving or departing minutes or hours apart.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
I don't see how people can effectively live in those places in a pandemic, when theoretically you can't share a lift with someone. There is no way to police "it's my turn" for someone waiting to get to the 20th floor. Are they supposed to go out once a week and lug their shopping up twenty flights of stairs, whilst hoping they don't meet anybody else doing the same? Poor sods, it must be utterly wretched.
To minimise the time folks are having to go through this is why we have to enforce the lock-down.
Not really surprising following the media onslaught last week but I also think those losing income without receiving immediate cash from HMG will be unhappy
It’s the rhetoric vs reality gap. The daily press conferences are an error, should be twice a week. There is a perverse incentive to announce things rather than deliver things.
Fair point.. but the problem is that the media would go nuts without its daily update.. how else do they fill their schedules/newpapers
Who cares. Governments primarily job is not to feed the media.
So the government should focus on fighting the crisis or feeding the press? If you really need to, on the off days let the monarchy, the opposition or the nations have a go. Send Charles out, he should be immune.
But on the other hand, for most of this crisis, far reaching decisions have been being taken on an almost daily basis. And the Govt naturally don’t want to fuel accusations of coverups that could undermine public confidence. So feeding the media and giving them column inches is probably seen as quite important.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I suspect Staffordshire Constabulary are quite measured. South Wales Police on the other hand are working directly from the Stasi playbook. That said I do have some sympathy with the old bill. Government have tried to be lenient with freedom of movement, which has led to some people believing a late '80s style rave on parkland is acceptable.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
Incidentally I got Hancock / Jenrick letter today saying how to register for the services being laid on for the clinically extremely vulnerable while I do my three months shielding. I had registered already following a prompt by text last week but obviously not everyone has a mobile phone (or the government may not have their up to date number) hence the letter. Registration was pretty hassle free and someone from people I know it seems the food parcels are starting to be delivered now, also supermarkets are prioritising delivery slots for those on the shielding list.
Just wanted to say Hancock signed off the letter in massive, primary school handwriting as just "Matt". It was actually rather endearing!
There are some problems with coherency across this scheme, in that the list of conditions for "vulnerable" in the Regulations is very different from those to register as vulnerable on the Govt website to go in "the list".
The definitions of the different "rings" of vulberable are not clear.
eg Diabetes (and they do not distinguish between Type I, Type II and various complications) is not in the list of conditions on the website registration, but is in the list in the Regulations.
Since supermarkets etc are using the Govt list as their source document for who qualifies, that will exclude a lot of people from the schemes.
Personally I had my Morrisons order booked before the lockdown announcement cancelled "because we can't fulfil your order" a couple of hours after the email saying "it is on its way", followed by a failure to deliver.
As a Type I D I won't now be risking a physical visit to a big supermarket, as being unwise and having been advised to isolate as far as poss. for 3 months way before the lockdown, so I have switched to Plan B which is quiet times at local utility shops and freezer, plus friends if required.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
I agree. One effect of the virus may be to make hipster flats in old mills less fashionable. Suburbia the new Clerkenwell? Perhaps with the effect that @AlastairMeeks points out that Starmer needs.
Though the terraced streets in Humberstone and Clarendon Park that I pass through on the way to work and back do seem to be observing the regulations well.
Morning everyone. Been thinking about social isolation in my family's terms. We've got a small garden and live in a small town with easily accessible walks. Easy to walk for an hour without having to get within 2m of anyone, We do it daily. Goods can be ordered on line, paid for by credit card and left on the doorstep 5m from the road. We have the technology and similarly minded and equipped friends and can (and do) interact virtually. Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either. Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult. Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
The hope must be that the moment the top of the spike is reached, the NHS can largely return to providing cancer treatment, routine ops etc. and have the regional Nightingale Hospitals manage the recuperation of the CV-19 sufferers. That will be a big source of relief to many families.
Morning everyone. Been thinking about social isolation in my family's terms. We've got a small garden and live in a small town with easily accessible walks. Easy to walk for an hour without having to get within 2m of anyone, We do it daily. Goods can be ordered on line, paid for by credit card and left on the doorstep 5m from the road. We have the technology and similarly minded and equipped friends and can (and do) interact virtually. Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either. Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult. Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
And yet Hancock has just threatened to take away exercise as an excuse to leave home as well.
I really wonder if he understands what that might mean.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
I would suggest that the relaxation should be by local authority rather than nationally. It is likely that the cities will need to be locked down longer than rural areas. Obviously not a total relaxation either, but perhaps a reopening of businesses and shops, with social distancing.
We should all pay more attention to 1. supermarkets and 2. home deliveries. With regard to the latter, this bugger virus can live on surfaces for one to three days and some suggest even longer.
There's no Government information whatsoever on this. In our stampede to tell other people to stop enjoying fresh air we are inviting coronavirus into our homes. Thus not saving lives.
For the record, I have a decontamination room. In there I keep my outdoor clothing and disinfectant. Everything that comes into my house has to first be sprayed and wiped with anti-bacterials. Then I change out of the protective gear and go and wash.
I might still get the bloody thing but I'm not going to take lectures from an inept and incompetent Gov't about my use of fresh air whilst wearing my mask.
It sounds like you're taking every precaution. Last night's pizza takeout (Options are limited now for us) I washed my hands, took the pizza out the box without touching it then put it into the oven. Had a shower, slid the pizza off the oven tray onto the plate, disposed of box, washed hands again then ate.
I reckon you can improve on the sequencing. Doesn’t sound to me like a critical path.
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
Been out for a 10k timed to arrive when the pizza got in.
And there was me, thinking it a moment of quiet reflection about not having bought that flamethrower to dispose of the pizza box....
Personally, I won't touch takeaway, as the risk is from aerosol and droplet spread in the kitchen. I am not eating anything myself not cooked by ourselves or in sealed packing and kept for several days.
While viral antigen can be detected, live virus expires fairly quickly on packaging.
I suspect that when we get the post mortem on this event, we will discover that aerosol and droplet spread accounted for 90%+ of infections and that there was actually a minimal risk from packaging. Not that I'm taking any chances, mind.
Communal singing might prove to have been a real horror. The theatre. Football chants. Bellowing on your horse at Cheltenham. Things where masks make a huge difference.
I think that is to some extent true, as the risk would be correlated with number of contacts on that spot as well as with eg if the person touching the viral deposit then picks their nose. However I suspect that things like machine keypads and screens would be higher risk as having more people touching them.
Personally I have been carrying a microfibre cloth damp with surgical spirit in a plastic bag in my pocket for several weeks now for such occasions, and a little bottle of the same.
Quickly discovered that it takes the "how to cook" instructions off various food items :-) .
Comments
Quite how you have dragged Brexit into this (what the fuck is Brexit) beats me but then you really do seem, as someone mentioned, an obsessive.
Like May, though, he repeatedly spent the intervening 3 years accepting in public the nonsensical "sunny uplands" inventions of the lunatic UKIP Lite gang who took over the Tory party.
Edit - for those who do not know who Chris Martin was, here is a short video showcasing his batting prowess:
https://youtu.be/H7wD14oJiPA
https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1246616492701102080?s=19
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/03/inflexibility-lumbering-nhs-country-has-had-shut/
Either people remember the delay and arguable incompetence around testing and ventilators and register this at the ballot box four years hence, or they treat it as part of the fog of war and deem they did a good job on the whole.
Knowing peoples' usual retention of political issues I would plump for the latter.
When Chris Witty comes on the tv telling people to stay at home, I have noticed the broadcast is introduced by a man who sounds black. I was thinking that the message was being delivered by what night seem an out of touch elite, maybe this was done to make it more inclusive.
I could be wrong about the voice over actors ethnicity mind you
2. It makes sense to plan ahead for when a vaccine is available.
3. It’s his job to criticise when they think things are going adrift. It’s his job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Strong
What was the point of the shower? Just an opportune moment for your daily wash?
It's fascinating to see how middle England/middle Britain has changed since even the Blair years. Places like Swindon, Milton Keynes, and the marginals you mentioned still remain in play for both parties. But, the path to a Labour government no longer runs through North Kent, or small to medium-sized towns in the Midlands. And the former coalfields continue to swing away from Labour.
Conversely, plenty of urban constituencies where the Conservatives were challenging strongly throughout 2001 - 15 are now completely out of reach; and some that were safe, like Chingford or Kensington are now hanging on a thread.
If (for example) the NHS were to adopt a buy-British policy in future, that would mean lots of manufacturing jobs coming back. Where will those jobs go? Who will the workers vote for?
Stay home stay safe.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
But anyone with two brain cells to rub together should be able to see how much harder that would make it to deal with the selfish morons who aren't responsible.
So responsible people are being penalised because of the actions of irresponsible morons. That's hardly anything new.
Indeed, am rather enjoying the lockdown. It's like a Seventies Sunday, nothing to do but gardening. Compared to running the gauntlet again on Monday, quite pleasant. Life seems more precious than ever.
There is the point made yesterday, I’m afraid I forget by whom, that the LD’s do better under ‘moderate’ Labour leaders because wavering Tory voters perceive less risk of letting in a Corbyn-type by default.
Not always easy, though. Local shop has narrow aisles and sometimes it's literally impossible to stay six feet away from people all the time. But food isn't exactly optional.
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Edit: Also predicting how people will vote on the basis a changed electoral system ignores the fact that many voters will change their votes because of it.
While viral antigen can be detected, live virus expires fairly quickly on packaging.
Stay at home unless you comply with the 4 reasons for leaving home.
Communal singing might prove to have been a real horror. The theatre. Football chants. Bellowing on your horse at Cheltenham. Things where masks make a huge difference.
I have a colleague with two young children in a flat. It would be ridiculous for the police to move them along, let them have a picnic and a little play.
I had a corn cobette diet for several days when I accidentally desfrosted an entire bag of them in the hall Quarantine Trolley, rather than putting them in the Plague Drawer in the freezer.
The BLPs solution? Posting Covid19 conspiracy articles by "Socialist Appeal" and opining that voters shpuldnt be afraid of Marx and should be gently educated on the subject. Marx is really popular apparently as witnessed by the big Marxist gathering in (now has a Tory MP) Sedgefield.
If Starmer clearly states that such lunacy is a scurge that must be surgically removed then I might be interested. If he wants to pander to them, he'll be useless
There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic.
My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that.
When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
I know many voters here in the Vale of Glamorgan who are not normally of the Conservative faith, disliked Johnson's cavalier approach to everything and found Alun Cairn's behaviour over the Ross England affair to be contemptible. Despite all those issues, when inside the polling booth they couldn't bring themselves to vote in any way that might might allow Corbyn and a disgraced Labour Party near 10 Downing Street.
If Boris gets the response to Covid-19 right he is unassailable whoever leads the opposition. If he gets Coronavirus wrong, or still gets everything right but fortune and statistics don't fall his way, the path to 10 Downing Street could be a lot less bumpy for Starmer than it looks at present.
For Starmer nay-sayers, Laura Kuenssberg's report on Starmer's victory on yesterday's BBC News will cheer you up. She is clearly not a fan.
So Labour will continue to thrive in University towns, in places with a large number of urban professionals including the towns they commute from. I see the breaking of the red wall as a process, not an event. Traditional Labour seats find that they have increasingly less and less in common with this middle class bureaucracy and it’s obsessions and I suspect more of them will drift away. I don’t think that Starmer is the person to stop this process.
Of course if the Tories are thought to have mis-handled the economic carnage about to descend upon us none of this will matter. We live in volatile and slightly frightening times where conventional analysis has a deckchair on the Titanic feel to it.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
To minimise the time folks are having to go through this is why we have to enforce the lock-down.
https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1246709113469505536?s=20
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
Very good article from the Spanish socialist PM striking exactly the right note. And I speak as a lifelong Tory!
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The definitions of the different "rings" of vulberable are not clear.
eg Diabetes (and they do not distinguish between Type I, Type II and various complications) is not in the list of conditions on the website registration, but is in the list in the Regulations.
Since supermarkets etc are using the Govt list as their source document for who qualifies, that will exclude a lot of people from the schemes.
Personally I had my Morrisons order booked before the lockdown announcement cancelled "because we can't fulfil your order" a couple of hours after the email saying "it is on its way", followed by a failure to deliver.
As a Type I D I won't now be risking a physical visit to a big supermarket, as being unwise and having been advised to isolate as far as poss. for 3 months way before the lockdown, so I have switched to Plan B which is quiet times at local utility shops and freezer, plus friends if required.
Some people will not be able to do that.
You wonder how much the virus has taken it out of him.
Though the terraced streets in Humberstone and Clarendon Park that I pass through on the way to work and back do seem to be observing the regulations well.
Son has a garden and indeed he and his family had a BBQ in it yesterday, just for them. However, his family includes two teenage children for who electronic contact is just not the same as physical and they're NOT HAPPY. There aren't, by any means the same options for walks for them, either.
Eldest granddaughter lives with her boyfriend in a modernised terrace house in a northern industrial city. Thirty+, recently moved there, friends all over the place, but most within weekend driving distance. If they can't go to the park for a walk, exercise is a problem. Both socialising and working from home are becoming more difficult.
Son-in-law has a busy job in a warehouse supplying some bits of PPE. So, day by day, he's busy. But he's a widower who comes home to an empty house, and although he now has a lady-friend, he can't see her because she lives in a different house, with an elderly, at risk, mother.
I could go on; we're coping and as I say we're all technologically reasonably to very literate. But I can understand, and sympathise with, people who 'break curfew'. Can imagine, for example, eldest granddaughter and partner going out and having a BBQ on the beach. What harm would that do?
I really wonder if he understands what that might mean.
Personally I have been carrying a microfibre cloth damp with surgical spirit in a plastic bag in my pocket for several weeks now for such occasions, and a little bottle of the same.
Quickly discovered that it takes the "how to cook" instructions off various food items :-) .
The WHO website has some good practical guidance.