And Alex, most Asian countries have avoided lockdown because of their approach. South Korea being a good example.
We're so flaming arrogant in this country. All that shit Hancock spouted the other day about how we are trying to find a vaccine and a cure. Er, because no other countries are already doing that of course?
We are a second-rate nation at best. Sorry. But true.
That’s a strange attitude to take
We are a middle-ranked power, certainly. That’s an objective fact. We’re probably towards the top end of that group because of legacy factors such as a seat on the UNSC. But the US, China etc are more powerful simply by virtue of size and wealth.
That doesn’t make us second rate. By almost any measure you care to mention we would be well ranked.
Very few people want both parts of that offer - it was just tried a few months ago, with catalclysmic results. Your only hope is slow demographic change overcoming our deep national antipathy to such a programme. By which point sensible people will have sold up and moved to a friendlier jurisdiction
You're reading too much into Dec 12th. Brexit and Corbyn will not be factors next time. We can win from the Left.
Maybe, but look at the US. The demographics there are vastly more favourable for your programme, and yet Bernie Sanders continues to get his clock cleaned again and again. CV-19 is a wild card for the entire world, but on the fundamentals a clever Tory Party should be able to exclude Kinabalu Labour (TM) from power for another couple of decades.
Clever Tory Party. Surely an oxymoron.
Devious, cunning, perhaps.
The way Boris and the Tories in October slipped Houdini-like out of the legal straitjacket devised for them by those who were supposedly the finest minds in the business is a textbook lesson that academic cleverness is an overrated quality in politics.
Coincidentally company I work for is making 91% less revenue than this time last year.
Came across someone who is doing very well out of this; teaches piano remotely, apparently. Zoom, Skype, FaceTime etc used to communicate with students in their own homes.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
People have complained the guidance isn’t clear. Any you want to make it more complex?
Stay at home unless essential. It really is that simple.
Both Jones and our own @NickPalmer miss the point imo. Avoiding civil war should go without saying. Personnel and policy are both important but only in the long term. Right now, Starmer needs to put in place teams both inside and outside Parliament that will enable Starmer and Labour generally to respond quickly, helpfully but also accurately to the rapidly changing Covid-19 situation and its economic and social consequences.
Well, if you`re doing 9 of them well done. Pull ups are hard. Many men (maybe most?) would struggle to do 1.
I did the All Arms Commando Course when I was 34 so I trained like a bastard in advance. When I arrived I could do 12 pull ups. When I "graduated" I had so many injuries I could do 2.
If it wasn’t for PB I wouldn’t have known about this.
It was okay. I thought the first half Was better than the second. It was at it best when I think they were improvising. “Hummus. No wonder you haven’t eaten it.” I’m a harsh critic.
Are there other company’s doing the same thing? Other sites the same? I have never seen a longer theatrical version of the play that goes wrong.
And Alex, most Asian countries have avoided lockdown because of their approach. South Korea being a good example.
We're so flaming arrogant in this country. All that shit Hancock spouted the other day about how we are trying to find a vaccine and a cure. Er, because no other countries are already doing that of course?
We are a second-rate nation at best. Sorry. But true.
That’s a strange attitude to take
We are a middle-ranked power, certainly. That’s an objective fact. We’re probably towards the top end of that group because of legacy factors such as a seat on the UNSC. But the US, China etc are more powerful simply by virtue of size and wealth.
That doesn’t make us second rate. By almost any measure you care to mention we would be well ranked.
If we are second rate can anyone name the ten or twenty countries that have more influence than us.
We are somewhere in the top ten, possibly top five. Yes we are clearly below the US and China but so is everyone else and by a long way - and however well we had done in the last 50 years we would still be in a different league to those two anyway so bemoaning we are not in their league is a bit weird.
Indeed. I'd actually forgotten Hunt was a remainer. Is that true? Was he?
Hunt made no bones in 2019 about the fact that he'd voted Remain in 2016: his summary of his failed 2019 leadership campaign was "'My remain vote was a hurdle we couldn't overcome'"
Like May, though, he repeatedly spent the intervening 3 years accepting in public the nonsensical "sunny uplands" inventions of the lunatic UKIP Lite gang who took over the Tory party.
I’m not sure that was true. He basically offered no change from May’s strategy. Boris - rightly or wrongly - saw a way to cut the Gordian knot. *That’s* why Boris won.
Maybe, but look at the US. The demographics there are vastly more favourable for your programme, and yet Bernie Sanders continues to get his clock cleaned again and again. CV-19 is a wild card for the entire world, but on the fundamentals a clever Tory Party should be able to exclude Kinabalu Labour (TM) from power for another couple of decades.
The US really is a mystery. But as it happens I am confident of a big swing to the Dems in November. Bernie? Well, he has made the weather there in many ways so I don't know about "getting his clock cleaned". If Trump wins again that will cause me to re-examine some of my beliefs, in particular my big one which is that people are on the whole more benign than malign and although irrational are not irredeemably stupid. Not that I'm comparing Trump and the Republicans to Johnson and the Conservatives, I must stress.
If Trump wins it will be because of the southern US states, the mountain and plain states and the rustbelt Midwest again, California, New York, the West Coast and the North East will still vote Democrat by a landslide again regardless.
Disparaging the provincial and 'flyover states' white working class who voted for Brexit, Boris and Trump as 'malign' and 'irredeemably stupid' will not help the liberal left win
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Would have been better spending 600m on mothballed manufacturing capacity and raw materials.
The man has already proved he is a fecking arse! Calling things which haven't yet happened "gross errors and mistakes". Obviously he knows what is being discussed at Cobra meetings. Supporting the Prime Minister in one sentence and cutting his legs away in the next. He can feck himself!
Called for a National Vaccination programme though. Must have spotted something that nobody else has publicly called for. Might be congratulating himself for raising it - possibly saved the country already. As long as the Govt listens to him.
I only heard in the radio that he wasn’t to build lots of new vaccination centres. Is there any more detail?
My initial reaction - having been involved with the sector - is WTF? You should deliver vaccinations through pharmacies and other locations. You don’t need a special building - just a private room, a trained nurse, and an IT system to deliver vaccines.
I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.
As TwistedFireStopper pointed out further down thread, there is a world of difference between three months of isolation in your nice, roomy detatched or semi-detached house with garden and living in a one bed flat/bedsit/squalid houseshare with no garden at all.
Six or seven years ago, I had just bought my first flat, a fairly nondescript one bedroom shoebox in East London. After a big night out I ended up bringing a few people back to mine to carry on the party.
I was amazed when one girl asked me how many people lived in the flat. She simply couldn't believe I had the whole place to myself. No partner, no flatmate, no-one living on the sofa bed in the lounge? Nope.
She showed me a picture of where she lived. She shared - shared - a bedroom about half the size of mine with her partner. The only communal room in the house was the tiny kitchen, as the living room was used as another bedroom.
That is the reality of a lot of people's living situations in London. Staying indoors ain't gonna cut it.
Added to the argument they are still socially distancing. Led there in a park, 30 metres from anyone, not closing 30 metres of anyone getting there. How technically is that murdering people as piers Morgan, Katie Hopkins and Matt Hancock keep yelling?
Contrast what Morgan, Hopkins, dews-bury and Hancock have said about this with people in tower blocks HAVING TO USE COMMUNAL LAUNDRY ROOMS those four amigos are SILENT about.
Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?
The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
The list has to be controlled by the LA who then deal with all aspects of safe guarding including arranging the food deliveries. Your dislike of all things the government does may be because you are not across the detail
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Given a reasonable service life then stock rotation means you can keep a huge reserve indefinitely, and stock rotation ought to be easier given a centralised regime like ours.
I think Starmer has got off to an awful start, doing a “Dunblane” over Coronavirus.
The big fear over Starmer was that he would try to have it all ways “supportive at time of national crisis” whilst scoring cheap points at governments expense, Blair style. That’s how he has defined himself as a -politician over the last five years, Blair/Brown ambition over genuine long held values.
To be specific, a lot of what he is saying today doesn’t match his “support at time of national crisis” rhetoric , nor make a huge deal of logic or scientific sense. Where the end game cannot be known because we don’t know where we will be in 2 4 8 16 32 64 weeks, he’s asking for the government to detail that end game. The Tory headbangers on PB and Tory media are right to be furious about this. In which case it’s dumb by team Starmer because most the nation still rightly rallying around the flag
The man has already proved he is a fecking arse! Calling things which haven't yet happened "gross errors and mistakes". Obviously he knows what is being discussed at Cobra meetings. Supporting the Prime Minister in one sentence and cutting his legs away in the next. He can feck himself!
Called for a National Vaccination programme though. Must have spotted something that nobody else has publicly called for. Might be congratulating himself for raising it - possibly saved the country already. As long as the Govt listens to him.
I only heard in the radio that he wasn’t to build lots of new vaccination centres. Is there any more detail?
My initial reaction - having been involved with the sector - is WTF? You should deliver vaccinations through pharmacies and other locations. You don’t need a special building - just a private room, a trained nurse, and an IT system to deliver vaccines.
Is point was that we should be ready to go when the vaccination is ready. I work in parallel not in series. We shouldn't add an additional wait to figure out how to distribute and administer a vaccine.
If Trump wins it will be because of the southern US states, the mountain and plain states and the rustbelt Midwest again, California, New York, the West Coast and the North East will still vote Democrat by a landslide again regardless.
Disparaging the provincial and 'flyover states' white working class who voted for Brexit, Boris and Trump as 'malign' and 'irredeemably stupid' will not help the liberal left win
My comment was specific to Trump. I'm not comparing support for him to that for Boris Johnson or Brexit. And, yes, if America elects him a 2nd time it will be IMO a malign and irredeemably stupid act. But I do not think they will.
Indeed. I'd actually forgotten Hunt was a remainer. Is that true? Was he?
Hunt made no bones in 2019 about the fact that he'd voted Remain in 2016: his summary of his failed 2019 leadership campaign was "'My remain vote was a hurdle we couldn't overcome'"
Like May, though, he repeatedly spent the intervening 3 years accepting in public the nonsensical "sunny uplands" inventions of the lunatic UKIP Lite gang who took over the Tory party.
I’m not sure that was true. He basically offered no change from May’s strategy. Boris - rightly or wrongly - saw a way to cut the Gordian knot. *That’s* why Boris won.
Boris won because, as @HYUFD posted continually, Boris led Labour in the polls and Theresa May had just almost handed Corbyn the keys to Downing Street.
She should have been sacked for sure but as Sturgeon's buddy it was guaranteed not to happen. SNP are turning into the Tory party.
Nicola is mad not to force her out. She will inevitably have to stand down anyway. Really don't understand the thinking - making it unnecessarily damaging. Be interesting to see if SNP maintain discipline on this.
The man has already proved he is a fecking arse! Calling things which haven't yet happened "gross errors and mistakes". Obviously he knows what is being discussed at Cobra meetings. Supporting the Prime Minister in one sentence and cutting his legs away in the next. He can feck himself!
Called for a National Vaccination programme though. Must have spotted something that nobody else has publicly called for. Might be congratulating himself for raising it - possibly saved the country already. As long as the Govt listens to him.
I only heard in the radio that he wasn’t to build lots of new vaccination centres. Is there any more detail?
My initial reaction - having been involved with the sector - is WTF? You should deliver vaccinations through pharmacies and other locations. You don’t need a special building - just a private room, a trained nurse, and an IT system to deliver vaccines.
Is point was that we should be ready to go when the vaccination is ready. I work in parallel not in series. We shouldn't add an additional wait to figure out how to distribute and administer a vaccine.
Sensible enough.
But we already have mechanisms for vaccinations, pharmacies, GP surgeries and schools. Why add a new step to the process that will inevitably go wrong and slow everything down?
Indeed. I'd actually forgotten Hunt was a remainer. Is that true? Was he?
Hunt made no bones in 2019 about the fact that he'd voted Remain in 2016: his summary of his failed 2019 leadership campaign was "'My remain vote was a hurdle we couldn't overcome'"
Like May, though, he repeatedly spent the intervening 3 years accepting in public the nonsensical "sunny uplands" inventions of the lunatic UKIP Lite gang who took over the Tory party.
I’m not sure that was true. He basically offered no change from May’s strategy. Boris - rightly or wrongly - saw a way to cut the Gordian knot. *That’s* why Boris won.
Boris won because, as @HYUFD posted continually, Boris led Labour in the polls and Theresa May had just almost handed Corbyn the keys to Downing Street.
Boris also killed off the Brexit Party, Hunt would not have done
I see Hancock saying exercising outdoors will be banned if we have to tighten again.
I thought he said it would be banned if people didn’t abide by the rules.
I don't see why if some people are doing X, you would ban Y?
Possibly because some people are using x as an excuse to do y.
If we ban exercise outdoors, why would that stop them sunbathing? They obviously don't care about the rules anyway..
And that is why certain measures will never be 100% effective. This is all mostly by consent, backed up by rules to be sure, but we cannot enforce it if most were unwilling. Those who want to flout will do so no matter what the rules are, and toughening guidance does not achieve 100%. Harsher punishments would no doubt have effect, but still not total as people don't think the will get caught, same as other crimes with harsh punishment.
One thing for certain in the new Labour era, we will be hearing the word 'forensic' a lot more. I expect even if Sir Keir is not as forensic as some expect that will be the messaging.
I also think Matt Hancock wrong to publicly criticise the footballers and insist they take a pay cut. It’s more nuanced than that where he has Phillip Green and mike Ashley taking tax payers money, and footballers pay cut deprives the government of income.
Fairer, braver would be for the government to be announcing increases in tax on the overpaid rich, not that it impacts the like of footballers or Green or Ashley, because they just sign contracts to pay themselves more to compensate for it, but still more sensible suggestion from a government than to publicly call for a pay cut.
The football union should say, the governments pay cut scheme deprives NHS of funds, pay us the same but anyone over xx a week will donate xx to nursing and social care charities.
If Trump wins it will be because of the southern US states, the mountain and plain states and the rustbelt Midwest again, California, New York, the West Coast and the North East will still vote Democrat by a landslide again regardless.
Disparaging the provincial and 'flyover states' white working class who voted for Brexit, Boris and Trump as 'malign' and 'irredeemably stupid' will not help the liberal left win
My comment was specific to Trump. I'm not comparing support for him to that for Boris Johnson or Brexit. And, yes, if America elects him a 2nd time it will be IMO a malign and irredeemably stupid act. But I do not think they will.
Trump's coalition is basically the same as that for Boris and Brexit though, just the US as an even more conservative country has a more extreme leader for it, ie big leads with the white working class, combined with narrow leads with the rich and there is the coalition for their majority even if most younger graduates and the big cities vote heavily against them.
I think it will be close in November but Trump certainly can win re election
Indeed. I'd actually forgotten Hunt was a remainer. Is that true? Was he?
Hunt made no bones in 2019 about the fact that he'd voted Remain in 2016: his summary of his failed 2019 leadership campaign was "'My remain vote was a hurdle we couldn't overcome'"
Like May, though, he repeatedly spent the intervening 3 years accepting in public the nonsensical "sunny uplands" inventions of the lunatic UKIP Lite gang who took over the Tory party.
I’m not sure that was true. He basically offered no change from May’s strategy. Boris - rightly or wrongly - saw a way to cut the Gordian knot. *That’s* why Boris won.
Boris offered a hope of something better.
He still does.
Starmer has to find that offering. Which, when we are patching up the economy after CV-19, is going to be a very tough niche to find.
And Alex, most Asian countries have avoided lockdown because of their approach. South Korea being a good example.
We're so flaming arrogant in this country. All that shit Hancock spouted the other day about how we are trying to find a vaccine and a cure. Er, because no other countries are already doing that of course?
We are a second-rate nation at best. Sorry. But true.
That’s a strange attitude to take
We are a middle-ranked power, certainly. That’s an objective fact. We’re probably towards the top end of that group because of legacy factors such as a seat on the UNSC. But the US, China etc are more powerful simply by virtue of size and wealth.
That doesn’t make us second rate. By almost any measure you care to mention we would be well ranked.
Well exactly. I have never understood those who suggest that since we are no longer a superpower, that means we are essentially entirely without power, or prestige. It's often people who claim to deride those who pine for an Imperial past as well, yet they seem to overdo the recognition those times are gone and assume everyone is distraught that we are not world beaters because not to be a superpower must mean irrelevance. Which is a bit of an insult to the many happy non super powers out there.
Those who are mentally stuck thinking we are a superpower and pine for an Imperial past I at least understand a bit more.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Thanks for asking that question, as I've been thinking that myself.
He's a much more effective advocate of rethinking some assumptions and measures being taken than many others. Though as noneoftheabove notes people have been asking that, and time will increase the number both asking and agreeing with it.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
I don't see how people can effectively live in those places in a pandemic, when theoretically you can't share a lift with someone. There is no way to police "it's my turn" for someone waiting to get to the 20th floor. Are they supposed to go out once a week and lug their shopping up twenty flights of stairs, whilst hoping they don't meet anybody else doing the same? Poor sods, it must be utterly wretched.
To minimise the time folks are having to go through this is why we have to enforce the lock-down.
According to friends living in the modern, posh tower blocks, they are having a big rethink on the joys of stacked living. Their balconies (when they have them) are often separated by a single glass panel from their neighbours. The sharing lift issue, is as you say, an issue.
Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?
The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
The list has to be controlled by the LA who then deal with all aspects of safe guarding including arranging the food deliveries. Your dislike of all things the government does may be because you are not across the detail
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
That’s very rude and Unnecessary government supportive of you, considering having the 4 page letter saying most vulnerable, then logging on the database, still no contact or recognition from a supermarket nearly two weeks later. Google it, hundreds of thousands in the same boat.
The government are obviously raiding closed hotels for their random not entirely helpful goody bag, what vulnerable people really need is the database to deliver a slot from one of their usual supermarkets. Look at what I have actually posted there, I am right in what has gone wrong, the old fashioned push not pull approach. too much control, not enough agile or innovation in the government machine.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
"The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead."
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
Swedish politicians are being very courageous. If they’re wrong, they’ll end up responsible for a huge amount of avoidable deaths.
I mean, forget the political cost - I’d find it impossible to look myself in the mirror ever again if I’d made that call and got it wrong.
Appreciate it doesn’t really reflect your point but I think to some extent Sweden might have safety in smaller numbers. All things being equal smaller countries have smaller numbers, so having bad outcomes doesn’t stand out so significantly. We are a big country getting regularly measured against the other big countries. If we apparently get it wrong it stands out.
One Month ago today was the first Covid19 death in the UK. Mike Smithson asked, how long it would be before the deaths no longer make front page news. Since then at least 4300 people have died from the disease.
Indeed. I'd actually forgotten Hunt was a remainer. Is that true? Was he?
Hunt made no bones in 2019 about the fact that he'd voted Remain in 2016: his summary of his failed 2019 leadership campaign was "'My remain vote was a hurdle we couldn't overcome'"
Like May, though, he repeatedly spent the intervening 3 years accepting in public the nonsensical "sunny uplands" inventions of the lunatic UKIP Lite gang who took over the Tory party.
I’m not sure that was true. He basically offered no change from May’s strategy. Boris - rightly or wrongly - saw a way to cut the Gordian knot. *That’s* why Boris won.
Boris offered a hope of something better.
He still does.
Starmer has to find that offering. Which, when we are patching up the economy after CV-19, is going to be a very tough niche to find.
Corbyn went from saying he’d deliver Brexit and denying the Tories a majority, to supporting a second referendum and getting a hiding.
His detractors refuse to give Boris any credit, so that’s the only variable from 2017-2019
Having a leader who put heart and soul into stopping Brexit won’t help Labour much. They need this virus to kill tens of thousands or hope for some civil disruption over the govts handling of it to make headway
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
Given that the pump for the organ is almost certainly electric - it would be an interesting project to wire it up to a home automation setup, so you could fire it up from your house, over the internet.
If you are moderately talented at home brew electronics, you could build the setup yourself from parts. There are plenty of kits out there. A friend setup a system to water his garden (via perforated house installed in the flower beds) - all he has to do is tap a button on app on his phone.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
"The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead."
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
Swedish politicians are being very courageous. If they’re wrong, they’ll end up responsible for a huge amount of avoidable deaths.
I mean, forget the political cost - I’d find it impossible to look myself in the mirror ever again if I’d made that call and got it wrong.
Appreciate it doesn’t really reflect your point but I think to some extent Sweden might have safety in smaller numbers. All things being equal smaller countries have smaller numbers, so having bad outcomes doesn’t stand out so significantly. We are a big country getting regularly measured against the other big countries. If we apparently get it wrong it stands out.
The 1200 deaths so far in Begluim might not stand out to us, but they sure do if you live in Belgium.
Interesting take in the Sundays on why some London streets are much quieter in their support of the NHS clapathon than others.
It's cuz they've all buggered off to their country retreats.....
It’s noticeable that the numbers in Kensington and Chelsea, which was leading the way in London early doors have completely stalled. Maybe they’re maxed out already!
I think Starmer has got off to an awful start, doing a “Dunblane” over Coronavirus.
The big fear over Starmer was that he would try to have it all ways “supportive at time of national crisis” whilst scoring cheap points at governments expense, Blair style. That’s how he has defined himself as a -politician over the last five years, Blair/Brown ambition over genuine long held values.
To be specific, a lot of what he is saying today doesn’t match his “support at time of national crisis” rhetoric , nor make a huge deal of logic or scientific sense. Where the end game cannot be known because we don’t know where we will be in 2 4 8 16 32 64 weeks, he’s asking for the government to detail that end game. The Tory headbangers on PB and Tory media are right to be furious about this. In which case it’s dumb by team Starmer because most the nation still rightly rallying around the flag
Like I said yesterday, taking these multiple thumpings really well...
Maybe, but look at the US. The demographics there are vastly more favourable for your programme, and yet Bernie Sanders continues to get his clock cleaned again and again. CV-19 is a wild card for the entire world, but on the fundamentals a clever Tory Party should be able to exclude Kinabalu Labour (TM) from power for another couple of decades.
The US really is a mystery. But as it happens I am confident of a big swing to the Dems in November. Bernie? Well, he has made the weather there in many ways so I don't know about "getting his clock cleaned". If Trump wins again that will cause me to re-examine some of my beliefs, in particular my big one which is that people are on the whole more benign than malign and although irrational are not irredeemably stupid. Not that I'm comparing Trump and the Republicans to Johnson and the Conservatives, I must stress.
If Trump wins it will be because of the southern US states, the mountain and plain states and the rustbelt Midwest again, California, New York, the West Coast and the North East will still vote Democrat by a landslide again regardless.
Disparaging the provincial and 'flyover states' white working class who voted for Brexit, Boris and Trump as 'malign' and 'irredeemably stupid' will not help the liberal left win
The WWC is constantly portrayed on this site as a homogenous mass. It isn’t. Sure some are stupid, but there are stupid people in all sections of society.
Many are very parochial and generally incurious about the world beyond their own horizons. It doesn’t make them stupid.
It does, unfortunately, make too many of them open to the simple, black and white arguments the Tories cynically trot out year after year (Foreigners = bad, for one example) that is enough to get them power when lined up with the hordes of Southern Shire Tories who probably couldn’t give a flying fuck about the WWC.
These arguments should be treated with disdain in a hugely complex world that is all shades of grey. But most people don’t want nuance, they want simple arguments that reinforce their prejudices.
Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?
Does 40 with less than perfect form get me to parity?
Really - in one go?
Yes, but as I said many I doubt would pass muster as 'proper'.
Started trying to some press ups in the new year, starting out just 10 in one go. 3 months later and it's a wibbly 40, I don't know how people do them, I really don't.
Exercise sucks.
Awesome! I really need to start again. I veb used to to pull ups at one point. That was a few waist sizes ago...
Progress and Labour First are set to jointly launch a new umbrella organisation called ‘Labour to Win’ as a response to Keir Starmer’s call for party unity.
The man has already proved he is a fecking arse! Calling things which haven't yet happened "gross errors and mistakes". Obviously he knows what is being discussed at Cobra meetings. Supporting the Prime Minister in one sentence and cutting his legs away in the next. He can feck himself!
Called for a National Vaccination programme though. Must have spotted something that nobody else has publicly called for. Might be congratulating himself for raising it - possibly saved the country already. As long as the Govt listens to him.
I only heard in the radio that he wasn’t to build lots of new vaccination centres. Is there any more detail?
My initial reaction - having been involved with the sector - is WTF? You should deliver vaccinations through pharmacies and other locations. You don’t need a special building - just a private room, a trained nurse, and an IT system to deliver vaccines.
Is point was that we should be ready to go when the vaccination is ready. I work in parallel not in series. We shouldn't add an additional wait to figure out how to distribute and administer a vaccine.
Sensible enough.
The NHS does pretty well at distributing vaccinations at the moment. There will, of course, be capacity issue. Mobile, and very temporary setups would seem the best way to go on this - lots of small sites.
Until the nature of the vaccine is more defined, planning might not be that useful - remember that even with a crazy short trails period for a vaccine we will have several months between selecting the vaccine for trials and mass delivery of the same.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
"The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead."
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
Swedish politicians are being very courageous. If they’re wrong, they’ll end up responsible for a huge amount of avoidable deaths.
I mean, forget the political cost - I’d find it impossible to look myself in the mirror ever again if I’d made that call and got it wrong.
Appreciate it doesn’t really reflect your point but I think to some extent Sweden might have safety in smaller numbers. All things being equal smaller countries have smaller numbers, so having bad outcomes doesn’t stand out so significantly. We are a big country getting regularly measured against the other big countries. If we apparently get it wrong it stands out.
The 1200 deaths so far in Begluim might not stand out to us, but they sure do if you live in Belgium.
Less than one-sixth of our population, more than a quarter of the number of deaths.
Progress and Labour First are set to jointly launch a new umbrella organisation called ‘Labour to Win’ as a response to Keir Starmer’s call for party unity.
I think Starmer has got off to an awful start, doing a “Dunblane” over Coronavirus.
The big fear over Starmer was that he would try to have it all ways “supportive at time of national crisis” whilst scoring cheap points at governments expense, Blair style. That’s how he has defined himself as a -politician over the last five years, Blair/Brown ambition over genuine long held values.
To be specific, a lot of what he is saying today doesn’t match his “support at time of national crisis” rhetoric , nor make a huge deal of logic or scientific sense. Where the end game cannot be known because we don’t know where we will be in 2 4 8 16 32 64 weeks, he’s asking for the government to detail that end game. The Tory headbangers on PB and Tory media are right to be furious about this. In which case it’s dumb by team Starmer because most the nation still rightly rallying around the flag
What we have at this moment is a series of options and possibilities - there is no amount of modelling or command economy "ordering" which will make things happen on a timetable or exactly as you want.
For example - the nature of the hoped for vaccine is not defined. Will it be a single shot? or multiple? what level of refrigeration will it require/tolerate? How will it react to vibration and jostling in transport? Until we have a vaccine entering final trials we won't have most of that defined.
Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?
The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
The list has to be controlled by the LA who then deal with all aspects of safe guarding including arranging the food deliveries. Your dislike of all things the government does may be because you are not across the detail
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
That’s very rude and Unnecessary government supportive of you, considering having the 4 page letter saying most vulnerable, then logging on the database, still no contact or recognition from a supermarket nearly two weeks later. Google it, hundreds of thousands in the same boat.
The government are obviously raiding closed hotels for their random not entirely helpful goody bag, what vulnerable people really need is the database to deliver a slot from one of their usual supermarkets. Look at what I have actually posted there, I am right in what has gone wrong, the old fashioned push not pull approach. too much control, not enough agile or innovation in the government machine.
Link to hundreds of thousands of the specific vulnerable not getting served please
The govenment are not adminstering the system, it is the LA's who have emergency phone lines to address the concerns you are making
I would suggest you direct anyone on the vulnerable list, or their family, to contact their LA urgently
China floods Facebook with undeclared coronavirus propaganda ads blaming Trump Chinese state media is flooding Facebook and Instagram with undisclosed political adverts whitewashing its role in the coronavirus pandemic and pinning blame on Donald Trump.
Three official news outlets – Xinhua, China Central Television and the Global Times – have targeted users across the world with promoted stories in English, Chinese and Arabic.
The ads, seen millions of times, extolled China’s efforts against Covid-19, downplayed its domestic outbreak, depicted Mr Trump as misguided and racist, and suggested that the virus might have originated in the US.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
Given that the pump for the organ is almost certainly electric - it would be an interesting project to wire it up to a home automation setup, so you could fire it up from your house, over the internet.
If you are moderately talented at home brew electronics, you could build the setup yourself from parts. There are plenty of kits out there. A friend setup a system to water his garden (via perforated house installed in the flower beds) - all he has to do is tap a button on app on his phone.
It is electric - pretty much all organ blowers are now, I’ve only ever played two that aren’t - but one was built in 1928, one in 1953 and one in 1965. I don’t think I would be comfortable having them running with nobody there to keep an eye on them.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
"The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead."
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
Swedish politicians are being very courageous. If they’re wrong, they’ll end up responsible for a huge amount of avoidable deaths.
I mean, forget the political cost - I’d find it impossible to look myself in the mirror ever again if I’d made that call and got it wrong.
Appreciate it doesn’t really reflect your point but I think to some extent Sweden might have safety in smaller numbers. All things being equal smaller countries have smaller numbers, so having bad outcomes doesn’t stand out so significantly. We are a big country getting regularly measured against the other big countries. If we apparently get it wrong it stands out.
The 1200 deaths so far in Begluim might not stand out to us, but they sure do if you live in Belgium.
China floods Facebook with undeclared coronavirus propaganda ads blaming Trump Chinese state media is flooding Facebook and Instagram with undisclosed political adverts whitewashing its role in the coronavirus pandemic and pinning blame on Donald Trump.
Three official news outlets – Xinhua, China Central Television and the Global Times – have targeted users across the world with promoted stories in English, Chinese and Arabic.
The ads, seen millions of times, extolled China’s efforts against Covid-19, downplayed its domestic outbreak, depicted Mr Trump as misguided and racist, and suggested that the virus might have originated in the US.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
Progress and Labour First are set to jointly launch a new umbrella organisation called ‘Labour to Win’ as a response to Keir Starmer’s call for party unity.
Interesting to read in the telegraph live page that the first random antibody survey has been completed, and they are processing the results. Those will be very interesting numbers to see.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
Which is so stupid. Any fool can realise that you want to turn over your stockpile faster than it goes out of date.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
I suppose for these things you will need to maintain a stockpile where stores are kept for a year or two, then sold to hospitals and replenished.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
Given that the pump for the organ is almost certainly electric - it would be an interesting project to wire it up to a home automation setup, so you could fire it up from your house, over the internet.
If you are moderately talented at home brew electronics, you could build the setup yourself from parts. There are plenty of kits out there. A friend setup a system to water his garden (via perforated house installed in the flower beds) - all he has to do is tap a button on app on his phone.
It is electric - pretty much all organ blowers are now, I’ve only ever played two that aren’t - but one was built in 1928, one in 1953 and one in 1965. I don’t think I would be comfortable having them running with nobody there to keep an eye on them.
Do what my garden watering friend did - he installed cameras as an extension of his home security system. One watching the solenoid valve for the water, a coupe watching the garden. So he can watch the operation of the system on his phone as well.
He was smart in that he installed the solenoid valve outside, just above a drain. Worst case is that it starts leaking massively - so that is taken care of.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
Which is so stupid. Any fool can realise that you want to turn over your stockpile faster than it goes out of date.
I think I just proved that right with my comment just after this.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
Amusing anecdote from my grandfather:
One day in the Western Desert he received a large delivery of tinned corned beef from army stores. The label on them said, ‘Use before December 1943.’ (This was in October 1942.)
But he noticed that there was a second label under this. So he peeled the top one off carefully and found the one below said: ‘Use before December 1937.’
He was a bit taken aback by that. Then he realised there was yet another label under there, so he peeled this next label off and found another label: ‘Use before December 1931.’
Well, the upshot of it was, the original use by date on the actual crates was 1919. It was First World War stock that had been in storage for 25 years as nobody could sell it and on a peacetime army establishment they had never needed to use it.
The punchline is:
Because it had been well made and carefully stored, it was fine to eat and got Ninth Armoured Brigade through the Second Battle of El Alamein.
I do not know what the chemicals are like in these filters. But I wonder whether we’re sometimes too quick to throw things away on those grounds.
Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?
The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
The list has to be controlled by the LA who then deal with all aspects of safe guarding including arranging the food deliveries. Your dislike of all things the government does may be because you are not across the detail
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
That’s very rude and Unnecessary government supportive of you, considering having the 4 page letter saying most vulnerable, then logging on the database, still no contact or recognition from a supermarket nearly two weeks later. Google it, hundreds of thousands in the same boat.
The government are obviously raiding closed hotels for their random not entirely helpful goody bag, what vulnerable people really need is the database to deliver a slot from one of their usual supermarkets. Look at what I have actually posted there, I am right in what has gone wrong, the old fashioned push not pull approach. too much control, not enough agile or innovation in the government machine.
Link to hundreds of thousands of the specific vulnerable not getting served please
The govenment are not adminstering the system, it is the LA's who have emergency phone lines to address the concerns you are making
I would suggest you direct anyone on the vulnerable list, or their family, to contact their LA urgently
For those who don’t know, and unaware, a 4 page scare you white as a sheet letter given to the most vulnerable, addressed from our local doctored surgery, to 1.5M wasn’t it? What it didn’t say was having identified you we have added you to the gov.uk database for priority supermarket delivery, you got to go to gov.uk add yourself, but unable to talk to anyone or be told this on the unhelpful help numbers, I walked into Sainsbury’s and was told this by the store manager. That was two weeks ago. Still no contact from any supermarket. Neighbours over 70 though not in receipt of you are most vulnerable letter are getting priority deliveries from Sainsbury’s, who they rarely on line shop from but are on Sainsbury’s own database having done it couple of times. A google shows loads of people in this same boat.
From my research the government clearly using push not pull of the information they are building. It all went to Sainsbury at first for some reason. They have not considered the digital divide that still exists will some oldies not hot on internet research and internet commerce, so those are the people suffering lack of eggs, more regular bread, etc unless they actually go out.
Sorry Big G but I am right on this one. But I am not specifically blaming ministers, the civil service mentality is still control minded, old fashioned, not agile or innovative enough in this situation, instinctively use push not pull. It’s the civil service the government need to implement everything.
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
I suppose for these things you will need to maintain a stockpile where stores are kept for a year or two, then sold to hospitals and replenished.
That's how any vaguely intelligent stockpile is run - the famous EEC grain and butter mountains were managed exactly thus.
Hell, standard warehousing software has features which records the sell buy dates of items as they are scanned in, and coordinates picking for sale so that you don't leave a can of beans on the shell for 25 years...
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
I suppose for these things you will need to maintain a stockpile where stores are kept for a year or two, then sold to hospitals and replenished.
That's how any vaguely intelligent stockpile is run - the famous EEC grain and butter mountains were managed exactly thus.
Hell, standard warehousing software has features which records the sell buy dates of items as they are scanned in, and coordinates picking for sale so that you don't leave a can of beans on the shell for 25 years...
Hmm.. I think I need a similar system for the mountains of pasta and gallons of UHT milk I have.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
Given that the pump for the organ is almost certainly electric - it would be an interesting project to wire it up to a home automation setup, so you could fire it up from your house, over the internet.
If you are moderately talented at home brew electronics, you could build the setup yourself from parts. There are plenty of kits out there. A friend setup a system to water his garden (via perforated house installed in the flower beds) - all he has to do is tap a button on app on his phone.
It is electric - pretty much all organ blowers are now, I’ve only ever played two that aren’t - but one was built in 1928, one in 1953 and one in 1965. I don’t think I would be comfortable having them running with nobody there to keep an eye on them.
Do what my garden watering friend did - he installed cameras as an extension of his home security system. One watching the solenoid valve for the water, a coupe watching the garden. So he can watch the operation of the system on his phone as well.
He was smart in that he installed the solenoid valve outside, just above a drain. Worst case is that it starts leaking massively - so that is taken care of.
Unfortunately, the worst case scenario with a blower is that it can catch fire and need extinguishing quickly if you don’t want half a million pounds’ worth of organ to be incinerated.
Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?
The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
The list has to be controlled by the LA who then deal with all aspects of safe guarding including arranging the food deliveries. Your dislike of all things the government does may be because you are not across the detail
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
That’s very rude and Unnecessary government supportive of you, considering having the 4 page letter saying most vulnerable, then logging on the database, still no contact or recognition from a supermarket nearly two weeks later. Google it, hundreds of thousands in the same boat.
The government are obviously raiding closed hotels for their random not entirely helpful goody bag, what vulnerable people really need is the database to deliver a slot from one of their usual supermarkets. Look at what I have actually posted there, I am right in what has gone wrong, the old fashioned push not pull approach. too much control, not enough agile or innovation in the government machine.
Link to hundreds of thousands of the specific vulnerable not getting served please
The govenment are not adminstering the system, it is the LA's who have emergency phone lines to address the concerns you are making
I would suggest you direct anyone on the vulnerable list, or their family, to contact their LA urgently
For those who don’t know, and unaware, a 4 page scare you white as a sheet letter given to the most vulnerable, addressed from our local doctored surgery, to 1.5M wasn’t it? What it didn’t say was having identified you we have added you to the gov.uk database for priority supermarket delivery, you got to go to gov.uk add yourself, but unable to talk to anyone or be told this on the unhelpful help numbers, I walked into Sainsbury’s and was told this by the store manager. That was two weeks ago. Still no contact from any supermarket. Neighbours over 70 though not in receipt of you are most vulnerable letter are getting priority deliveries from Sainsbury’s, who they rarely on line shop from but are on Sainsbury’s own database having done it couple of times. A google shows loads of people in this same boat.
From my research the government clearly using push not pull of the information they are building. It all went to Sainsbury at first for some reason. They have not considered the digital divide that still exists will some oldies not hot on internet research and internet commerce, so those are the people suffering lack of eggs, more regular bread, etc unless they actually go out.
Sorry Big G but I am right on this one. But I am not specifically blaming ministers, the civil service mentality is still control minded, old fashioned, not agile or innovative enough in this situation, instinctively use push not pull. It’s the civil service the government need to implement everything.
Asda have contacted several vulnerable people of my aquaintance with slots etc.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
"The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead."
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
Swedish politicians are being very courageous. If they’re wrong, they’ll end up responsible for a huge amount of avoidable deaths.
I mean, forget the political cost - I’d find it impossible to look myself in the mirror ever again if I’d made that call and got it wrong.
Appreciate it doesn’t really reflect your point but I think to some extent Sweden might have safety in smaller numbers. All things being equal smaller countries have smaller numbers, so having bad outcomes doesn’t stand out so significantly. We are a big country getting regularly measured against the other big countries. If we apparently get it wrong it stands out.
The 1200 deaths so far in Begluim might not stand out to us, but they sure do if you live in Belgium.
1447
Their death rate per million is almost exactly twice ours.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
Given that the pump for the organ is almost certainly electric - it would be an interesting project to wire it up to a home automation setup, so you could fire it up from your house, over the internet.
If you are moderately talented at home brew electronics, you could build the setup yourself from parts. There are plenty of kits out there. A friend setup a system to water his garden (via perforated house installed in the flower beds) - all he has to do is tap a button on app on his phone.
It is electric - pretty much all organ blowers are now, I’ve only ever played two that aren’t - but one was built in 1928, one in 1953 and one in 1965. I don’t think I would be comfortable having them running with nobody there to keep an eye on them.
Do what my garden watering friend did - he installed cameras as an extension of his home security system. One watching the solenoid valve for the water, a coupe watching the garden. So he can watch the operation of the system on his phone as well.
He was smart in that he installed the solenoid valve outside, just above a drain. Worst case is that it starts leaking massively - so that is taken care of.
Unfortunately, the worst case scenario with a blower is that it can catch fire and need extinguishing quickly if you don’t want half a million pounds’ worth of organ to be incinerated.
Add a Halon dump system to the setup. Might prove useful in suppressing poor organists, Bloefeld style.
Why on earth has that silly bint not resigned yet? I really don't want anyone that obtuse in charge of our medical efforts.
Come on, how long it take to get rid of the Finance Minister when he was caught grooming teenage boys? It was hardly instant.
Sturgeon has many strengths as a politician but her reaction to HR crises would embarrass John Major.
Giving Salmond an opportunity to stir the shit at the moment is something she may come to regret.
Yes, Salmond could end up being Boris to her May
Don’t be silly. Johnson is a depraved creepy sex pest who has made ridiculous promises he has no hope of keeping, makes continual political comebacks, wins huge numbers of seats in general elections due to the weakness...
As some nations scramble to find protective gear to fight the coronavirus pandemic, Finland is sitting on an enviable stockpile of personal protective equipment like surgical masks, putting it ahead of less-prepared Nordic neighbors.
The stockpile, considered one of Europe’s best and built up over years, includes not only medical supplies, but also oil, grains, agricultural tools and raw materials to make ammunition. Norway, Sweden and Denmark had also amassed large stockpiles of medical and military equipment, fuel and food during the Cold War era. Later, most all but abandoned those stockpiles.
Silly question, what is making the masks deteriorate so they go out of date? Is an out of date mask clearly better than nothing? Or has it got its own dangers?
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
Filters in all kinds of filtering breathing gear are disposable and have a life span. IN the case of the disposable masks they are built in. The "reusable" kit just have removable filters, which get thrown away after x usage.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
As was reported the other day, California had 21 million N95 masks in storage for an emergency supply. When they came to distribute them they found they were all out of date.
I suppose for these things you will need to maintain a stockpile where stores are kept for a year or two, then sold to hospitals and replenished.
That's how any vaguely intelligent stockpile is run - the famous EEC grain and butter mountains were managed exactly thus.
Hell, standard warehousing software has features which records the sell buy dates of items as they are scanned in, and coordinates picking for sale so that you don't leave a can of beans on the shell for 25 years...
Hmm.. I think I need a similar system for the mountains of pasta and gallons of UHT milk I have.
That is not a ridiculous thing to think of. A friend who is a bit of preppier, setup a larder in his house thus - the shelves are in front of a big door to the outside world (used to be another entrance to the kitchen). So after a shop, he loads *the back of the shelves* - so the oldest stuff is at the front. So he has a year of just about everything - tins, cleaning product etc. But nothing stays longer than a year.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
Given that the pump for the organ is almost certainly electric - it would be an interesting project to wire it up to a home automation setup, so you could fire it up from your house, over the internet.
If you are moderately talented at home brew electronics, you could build the setup yourself from parts. There are plenty of kits out there. A friend setup a system to water his garden (via perforated house installed in the flower beds) - all he has to do is tap a button on app on his phone.
It is electric - pretty much all organ blowers are now, I’ve only ever played two that aren’t - but one was built in 1928, one in 1953 and one in 1965. I don’t think I would be comfortable having them running with nobody there to keep an eye on them.
Do what my garden watering friend did - he installed cameras as an extension of his home security system. One watching the solenoid valve for the water, a coupe watching the garden. So he can watch the operation of the system on his phone as well.
He was smart in that he installed the solenoid valve outside, just above a drain. Worst case is that it starts leaking massively - so that is taken care of.
Unfortunately, the worst case scenario with a blower is that it can catch fire and need extinguishing quickly if you don’t want half a million pounds’ worth of organ to be incinerated.
Add a Halon dump system to the setup. Might prove useful in suppressing poor organists, Bloefeld style.
I’ve never had complaints about my organ.
The way I play large musical instruments, on the other hand...
He's a much more effective advocate of rethinking some assumptions and measures being taken than many others. Though as noneoftheabove notes people have been asking that, and time will increase the number both asking and agreeing with it.
My concern right now is that all of these decisions and effectively all the commentary upon the decisions are being made by people who are ideally placed to cope with an extended lockdown. They live in houses with reasonable amounts of garden, with at least some of their pastimes that lend themselves to isolation and are mentally in a place where the idea of not being able to leave your house for several weeks holds no great fear.
For millions of people living in cities in blocks of flats, tenements or terraced houses with little, or more likely no, garden, with limited space and where they are now locked up together 24 hours a day, an extended or even quite limited full lockdown is simply not practical. They will end up throwing either themselves or another member of the family off a top floor balcony.
With the best will in the world what is being asked of these people is not reasonable or sustainable.
Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?
The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
The list has to be controlled by the LA who then deal with all aspects of safe guarding including arranging the food deliveries. Your dislike of all things the government does may be because you are not across the detail
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
That’s very rude and Unnecessary government supportive of you, considering having the 4 page letter saying most vulnerable, then logging on the database, still no contact or recognition from a supermarket nearly two weeks later. Google it, hundreds of thousands in the same boat.
The government are obviously raiding closed hotels for their random not entirely helpful goody bag, what vulnerable people really need is the database to deliver a slot from one of their usual supermarkets. Look at what I have actually posted there, I am right in what has gone wrong, the old fashioned push not pull approach. too much control, not enough agile or innovation in the government machine.
Link to hundreds of thousands of the specific vulnerable not getting served please
The govenment are not adminstering the system, it is the LA's who have emergency phone lines to address the concerns you are making
I would suggest you direct anyone on the vulnerable list, or their family, to contact their LA urgently
For those who don’t know, and unaware, a 4 page scare you white as a sheet letter given to the most vulnerable, addressed from our local doctored surgery, to 1.5M wasn’t it? What it didn’t say was having identified you we have added you to the gov.uk database for priority supermarket delivery, you got to go to gov.uk add yourself, but unable to talk to anyone or be told this on the unhelpful help numbers, I walked into Sainsbury’s and was told this by the store manager. That was two weeks ago. Still no contact from any supermarket. Neighbours over 70 though not in receipt of you are most vulnerable letter are getting priority deliveries from Sainsbury’s, who they rarely on line shop from but are on Sainsbury’s own database having done it couple of times. A google shows loads of people in this same boat.
From my research the government clearly using push not pull of the information they are building. It all went to Sainsbury at first for some reason. They have not considered the digital divide that still exists will some oldies not hot on internet research and internet commerce, so those are the people suffering lack of eggs, more regular bread, etc unless they actually go out.
Sorry Big G but I am right on this one. But I am not specifically blaming ministers, the civil service mentality is still control minded, old fashioned, not agile or innovative enough in this situation, instinctively use push not pull. It’s the civil service the government need to implement everything.
Asda have contacted several vulnerable people of my aquaintance with slots etc.
And at the same time your anecdote doesn’t help those who aren’t being contacted by any supermarket, most probably because of a digital divide, they don’t have an online commercial presence.
Self isolating oldies still struggling to get supermarket delivery slot. My understanding, and correct me where I am wrong, the government have implemented this ass over tit. It seems to be push not pull. “Tesco reveal they have now received part of the governments vulnerable database and have identified some of the their regular customers from it”. Etc. When they created this most vulnerable database why didn’t they give it to the supermarkets say “here a link, identify your usual customers from it. And pull what you need. Wiggle on, there’s some exasperated customers out there” Why does it have to push not pull? Why did it have to all go to Sainsbury’s first till they couldn’t cope anymore?
The Achilles heel in all the mistakes the government has made seems to be wedded to control and lacking agility and innovation.
The list has to be controlled by the LA who then deal with all aspects of safe guarding including arranging the food deliveries. Your dislike of all things the government does may be because you are not across the detail
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
That’s very rude and Unnecessary government supportive of you, considering having the 4 page letter saying most vulnerable, then logging on the database, still no contact or recognition from a supermarket nearly two weeks later. Google it, hundreds of thousands in the same boat.
The government are obviously raiding closed hotels for their random not entirely helpful goody bag, what vulnerable people really need is the database to deliver a slot from one of their usual supermarkets. Look at what I have actually posted there, I am right in what has gone wrong, the old fashioned push not pull approach. too much control, not enough agile or innovation in the government machine.
Link to hundreds of thousands of the specific vulnerable not getting served please
The govenment are not adminstering the system, it is the LA's who have emergency phone lines to address the concerns you are making
I would suggest you direct anyone on the vulnerable list, or their family, to contact their LA urgently
For those who don’t know, and unaware, a 4 page scare you white as a sheet letter given to the most vulnerable, addressed from our local doctored surgery, to 1.5M wasn’t it? What it didn’t say was having identified you we have added you to the gov.uk database for priority supermarket delivery, you got to go to gov.uk add yourself, but unable to talk to anyone or be told this on the unhelpful help numbers, I walked into Sainsbury’s and was told this by the store manager. That was two weeks ago. Still no contact from any supermarket. Neighbours over 70 though not in receipt of you are most vulnerable letter are getting priority deliveries from Sainsbury’s, who they rarely on line shop from but are on Sainsbury’s own database having done it couple of times. A google shows loads of people in this same boat.
From my research the government clearly using push not pull of the information they are building. It all went to Sainsbury at first for some reason. They have not considered the digital divide that still exists will some oldies not hot on internet research and internet commerce, so those are the people suffering lack of eggs, more regular bread, etc unless they actually go out.
Sorry Big G but I am right on this one. But I am not specifically blaming ministers, the civil service mentality is still control minded, old fashioned, not agile or innovative enough in this situation, instinctively use push not pull. It’s the civil service the government need to implement everything.
Let us disagree.
I have proof positive the system is working and is only adminstered by the LAs here in Wales
It is not just food for the vulnerable but many other services are necessary including carers, nurses, volunteers who can pick up medicines, and of course the food
I have read many stories of how well the system is working but some will fall through the gaps.
My point is that you cannot blame eveverything on HMG doorstep, when in this case it is a delegated power and the remedy is through the LA
Comments
We are a middle-ranked power, certainly. That’s an objective fact. We’re probably towards the top end of that group because of legacy factors such as a seat on the UNSC. But the US, China etc are more powerful simply by virtue of size and wealth.
That doesn’t make us second rate. By almost any measure you care to mention we would be well ranked.
Stay at home unless essential. It really is that simple.
It was okay. I thought the first half Was better than the second. It was at it best when I think they were improvising. “Hummus. No wonder you haven’t eaten it.”
I’m a harsh critic.
Are there other company’s doing the same thing? Other sites the same? I have never seen a longer theatrical version of the play that goes wrong.
We are somewhere in the top ten, possibly top five. Yes we are clearly below the US and China but so is everyone else and by a long way - and however well we had done in the last 50 years we would still be in a different league to those two anyway so bemoaning we are not in their league is a bit weird.
He basically offered no change from May’s strategy. Boris - rightly or wrongly - saw a way to cut the Gordian knot. *That’s* why Boris won.
Disparaging the provincial and 'flyover states' white working class who voted for Brexit, Boris and Trump as 'malign' and 'irredeemably stupid' will not help the liberal left win
Just wondering if the suppliers but very cautious use by dates to 1) avoid litigation for occassional malfunction 2) sell on repeat as often as possible - which would be typical of most industries.
My initial reaction - having been involved with the sector - is WTF? You should deliver vaccinations through pharmacies and other locations. You don’t need a special building - just a private room, a trained nurse, and an IT system to deliver vaccines.
Contrast what Morgan, Hopkins, dews-bury and Hancock have said about this with people in tower blocks HAVING TO USE COMMUNAL LAUNDRY ROOMS those four amigos are SILENT about.
Eadric type rant over.
And I should know, as my son in laws father is under the scheme and it works very well across all departments and utilises the army of volunteers
The big fear over Starmer was that he would try to have it all ways “supportive at time of national crisis” whilst scoring cheap points at governments expense, Blair style. That’s how he has defined himself as a -politician over the last five years, Blair/Brown ambition over genuine long held values.
To be specific, a lot of what he is saying today doesn’t match his “support at time of national crisis” rhetoric , nor make a huge deal of logic or scientific sense. Where the end game cannot be known because we don’t know where we will be in 2 4 8 16 32 64 weeks, he’s asking for the government to detail that end game. The Tory headbangers on PB and Tory media are right to be furious about this. In which case it’s dumb by team Starmer because most the nation still rightly rallying around the flag
Sensible enough.
It's cuz they've all buggered off to their country retreats.....
Fairer, braver would be for the government to be announcing increases in tax on the overpaid rich, not that it impacts the like of footballers or Green or Ashley, because they just sign contracts to pay themselves more to compensate for it, but still more sensible suggestion from a government than to publicly call for a pay cut.
The football union should say, the governments pay cut scheme deprives NHS of funds, pay us the same but anyone over xx a week will donate xx to nursing and social care charities.
I think it will be close in November but Trump certainly can win re election
He still does.
Starmer has to find that offering. Which, when we are patching up the economy after CV-19, is going to be a very tough niche to find.
Those who are mentally stuck thinking we are a superpower and pine for an Imperial past I at least understand a bit more.
I think that will change if we get beyond a couple of months with no end in sight.
The government are obviously raiding closed hotels for their random not entirely helpful goody bag, what vulnerable people really need is the database to deliver a slot from one of their usual supermarkets.
Look at what I have actually posted there, I am right in what has gone wrong, the old fashioned push not pull approach. too much control, not enough agile or innovation in the government machine.
This is true for military kit as well - around the world.
His detractors refuse to give Boris any credit, so that’s the only variable from
2017-2019
Having a leader who put heart and soul into stopping Brexit won’t help Labour much. They need this virus to kill tens of thousands or hope for some civil disruption over the govts handling of it to make headway
If you are moderately talented at home brew electronics, you could build the setup yourself from parts. There are plenty of kits out there. A friend setup a system to water his garden (via perforated house installed in the flower beds) - all he has to do is tap a button on app on his phone.
Many are very parochial and generally incurious about the world beyond their own horizons. It doesn’t make them stupid.
It does, unfortunately, make too many of them open to the simple, black and white arguments the Tories cynically trot out year after year (Foreigners = bad, for one example) that is enough to get them power when lined up with the hordes of Southern Shire Tories who probably couldn’t give a flying fuck about the WWC.
These arguments should be treated with disdain in a hugely complex world that is all shades of grey. But most people don’t want nuance, they want simple arguments that reinforce their prejudices.
Sturgeon has many strengths as a politician but her reaction to HR crises would embarrass John Major.
https://labourlist.org/2020/04/progress-and-labour-first-launch-labour-to-win-umbrella-organisation/
Until the nature of the vaccine is more defined, planning might not be that useful - remember that even with a crazy short trails period for a vaccine we will have several months between selecting the vaccine for trials and mass delivery of the same.
For example - the nature of the hoped for vaccine is not defined. Will it be a single shot? or multiple? what level of refrigeration will it require/tolerate? How will it react to vibration and jostling in transport? Until we have a vaccine entering final trials we won't have most of that defined.
The govenment are not adminstering the system, it is the LA's who have emergency phone lines to address the concerns you are making
I would suggest you direct anyone on the vulnerable list, or their family, to contact their LA urgently
China floods Facebook with undeclared coronavirus propaganda ads blaming Trump
Chinese state media is flooding Facebook and Instagram with undisclosed political adverts whitewashing its role in the coronavirus pandemic and pinning blame on Donald Trump.
Three official news outlets – Xinhua, China Central Television and the Global Times – have targeted users across the world with promoted stories in English, Chinese and Arabic.
The ads, seen millions of times, extolled China’s efforts against Covid-19, downplayed its domestic outbreak, depicted Mr Trump as misguided and racist, and suggested that the virus might have originated in the US.
Death due to massive viral load ?
He was smart in that he installed the solenoid valve outside, just above a drain. Worst case is that it starts leaking massively - so that is taken care of.
One day in the Western Desert he received a large delivery of tinned corned beef from army stores. The label on them said, ‘Use before December 1943.’ (This was in October 1942.)
But he noticed that there was a second label under this. So he peeled the top one off carefully and found the one below said: ‘Use before December 1937.’
He was a bit taken aback by that. Then he realised there was yet another label under there, so he peeled this next label off and found another label: ‘Use before December 1931.’
Well, the upshot of it was, the original use by date on the actual crates was 1919. It was First World War stock that had been in storage for 25 years as nobody could sell it and on a peacetime army establishment they had never needed to use it.
The punchline is:
Because it had been well made and carefully stored, it was fine to eat and got Ninth Armoured Brigade through the Second Battle of El Alamein.
I do not know what the chemicals are like in these filters. But I wonder whether we’re sometimes too quick to throw things away on those grounds.
Neighbours over 70 though not in receipt of you are most vulnerable letter are getting priority deliveries from Sainsbury’s, who they rarely on line shop from but are on Sainsbury’s own database having done it couple of times. A google shows loads of people in this same boat.
From my research the government clearly using push not pull of the information they are building. It all went to Sainsbury at first for some reason. They have not considered the digital divide that still exists will some oldies not hot on internet research and internet commerce, so those are the people suffering lack of eggs, more regular bread, etc unless they actually go out.
Sorry Big G but I am right on this one. But I am not specifically blaming ministers, the civil service mentality is still control minded, old fashioned, not agile or innovative enough in this situation, instinctively use push not pull. It’s the civil service the government need to implement everything.
Hell, standard warehousing software has features which records the sell buy dates of items as they are scanned in, and coordinates picking for sale so that you don't leave a can of beans on the shell for 25 years...
...hang on a minute...
https://twitter.com/httweets/status/1246767018725871619?s=21
The way I play large musical instruments, on the other hand...
For millions of people living in cities in blocks of flats, tenements or terraced houses with little, or more likely no, garden, with limited space and where they are now locked up together 24 hours a day, an extended or even quite limited full lockdown is simply not practical. They will end up throwing either themselves or another member of the family off a top floor balcony.
With the best will in the world what is being asked of these people is not reasonable or sustainable.
I have proof positive the system is working and is only adminstered by the LAs here in Wales
It is not just food for the vulnerable but many other services are necessary including carers, nurses, volunteers who can pick up medicines, and of course the food
I have read many stories of how well the system is working but some will fall through the gaps.
My point is that you cannot blame eveverything on HMG doorstep, when in this case it is a delegated power and the remedy is through the LA