‘Nobody sensible claims this would be a difficult situation for the government.’
Starmer talking much more fluently than in yesterday’s press conference. Calm, but with a touch of passion, and much more on top of things than Hancock.
Also saying all the right things.
Sorry, @DavidL, but he’s coming across pretty well here.
He does not have the charisma and fluency of Boris. He must work on that!
No, he must not!
I wonder though if he’s going a bit far in writing the government nearly a blank cheque by saying he will support ‘whatever action is necessary.’ Particularly on lockdown being tightened.
Notable he takes the Big-G line on the police.
His big mistake will be if he goes anywhere near a Government of National Unity. I much prefer the support now and call out later if they cock it up approach!
I dont think a GNU is in the interests of either side, so I doubt it's in the offing. Theres inevitability going to be or have been cock ups, the opposition will call that out. ( more likely than a cock up is just not dealing with things as well as hoped, which is not necessarily avoidable). And government is in emergency mode for several months unlikely to act any differently if others are involved so no benefit to bringing them on board more than already done.
Agree. The best long term prospect is to look like a very responsible non-opportunist opposition. I think Starmer will be quite good at that.
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Lol. Sums up exactly what I was trying to say far more succinctly. If they could only drop the care for the poor hypocrisy.
As well as for the workers with their knighted "great socialist" leader, bunch of chancers and have always been out for themselves.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
Completely off topic: my culture tip for today is the free stream (available today until 10.30pm) of Verdi’s Macbeth from 2014 starring Anna Netrebko and Željko Lučić. It got magnificent reviews at the time, should be a real treat:
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
A man with a loaf in British politics would be a lovely change.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
It sounds essential to me. VisitBritain were compiling a list of essential tourism and heritage jobs - things that needed to be done over this period to protect stately homes and historic sites and whatnot. That sounds pretty essential, and you'd be alone. Get the Bishop to write you a letter on headed paper, and take it with you when you go, and you'll be fine.
If the Bishop says it's OK, then you have to hope Plod aren't going to be bashing the Bishop....
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?
I have not yet seen a really convincing account of how a party formed and molded by the extreme left, so that no-one else got a look in, so rapidly voted for a non-extremist.
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?
I have not yet seen a really convincing account of how a party formed and molded by the extreme left, so that no-one else got a look in, so rapidly voted for a non-extremist.
Starmer isn’t a centrist (or at least, if he is he’s hid it well). But perhaps just as Miliband’s narrow defeat shocked Labour into self-indulgence, perhaps Corbyn’s brutal pounding has shocked them back into understanding politics really is all about power.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Half baked more like
But Malc, you think that of every politician bar Clarke and Salmond.
Panic buying recommendation: fans. As soon as it’s properly hot there will be a run on these from home workers and there is no way that Chinese manufacturing and supply chains will cope.
I don't know if any of you have ever been in a tower block. It's grim, and I only visit them fleetingly. There is a 23 storey block in Leicester called Goscote House that is scheduled for demolition. The council have given us a free run to use it for training until it goes. It's an amazing venue, and we were making good use of it until the pandemic. My point is this... On my first visit a few months ago, after we'd spent a couple of hours running hose up and down the stairs, we sat in a flat on the top floor contemplating life. It was a bedsit, literally a combined lounge/bedroom with ensuite bathroom and what we call an ensuite kitchen. You won't be swinging any cats in there. The windows only open an inch and there isn't a balcony. It was unremittingly bleak. I actually felt disgust that we made people live like that. When we're in our nice gardens this afternoon, having a beer and a bbq, wondering where we're going to source plants now that B&Q are shut, raise a glass to the ones stuck in that high-rise.
Yes, I’m very fortunate in that I have a nice house and a garden that are amply big enough to give me space and occupy my mind. I’ve been chopping wood up for the stove and getting some of my books off the shelves. Plus I have my own research to work on.
If I had two small children and no garden whether the police like it or not I would drive to the Chase to give them some exercise.
I presume though that your organ is sadly neglected, and in need of a bit of pumping to keep in good order...
Always!
On a serious note, however, if an organ reservoir is not regularly inflated it can damage the leathers. Then, when you do inflate them, they crack and cause £20,000 worth of damage.
I have been wondering if I will be able to claim going to a church to do routine maintenance of the organ could be considered a ‘reasonable excuse.’ After all, it is part of my job and I can’t do it remotely. In the next week or so I will have to discuss it with the relevant clergy and make a decision.
It sounds essential to me. VisitBritain were compiling a list of essential tourism and heritage jobs - things that needed to be done over this period to protect stately homes and historic sites and whatnot. That sounds pretty essential, and you'd be alone. Get the Bishop to write you a letter on headed paper, and take it with you when you go, and you'll be fine.
If the Bishop says it's OK, then you have to hope Plod aren't going to be bashing the Bishop....
I'm sure they would not want to imperil their immortal soul by doing so.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
My Spanish is pretty poor, but am I right in thinking that says of c.131,000 cases just 38,000 have recovered, compared to 12,400 deaths?
Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Half baked more like
He's going to have to learn to roll with the punches if he wants to prove himself.
If the Gov't is going to crack down on sunbathing it should present a clear Airport policy
People allowed back
i) Only British nationals & foreign national essential key workers allowed to return (Thinking @Foxy colleagues here - NHS Doctors/nurses) ii) 14 days enforced quarantine for returners, particularly from hotspots. iii) Airfreight can continue
The paperwork for the returners of non British nationals needs should come from a hospital or some such.
I think Labour has to make some decent progress against the SNP to neutralise the fear among the English that a Labour-SNP Coalition would see the Scottish Nationalists tyrannize England. This makes the 2021 Holyrood elections really quite important. If Labour were to contrive to successfully force the SNP out of government it would make a huge difference.
Doesn't look likely at the moment though.
Not ever does it look likely, they are useless to the core.
Another drop in deaths just announced in Spain. Weekend figures can be unreliable, though, so we’ll need a few more days of numbers before we can be confident of a trend.
And on a gnother GNU, it isn’t on the cards until there’s a proper, toxic, majority-threatening split between lockdownsists and herd immunisers, and it’s not clear that it would do Labour any good at all to come down on the lockdown side rather than let the Tories fight it out. This isn’t Brexit; don’t fight the last war.
'In New Zealand, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said in a televised address that "going hard and going early" seemed to be working - before adding: "While compliance has been generally strong, there are still some I would charitably describe as idiots." New Zealand has had 1,039 confirmed cases of the virus, and one death.'
Good. If we have a sensible leader of the opposition we all benefit. If Starmer can convince me that a Labour government would enact sensible centre-left policies without going full Venezuela then I might have to look twice at what they offer. As someone else said if we can get to a point where a Labour government is not a frightening prospect it would be a nice change from the insanity of Corbynism.
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?
I have not yet seen a really convincing account of how a party formed and molded by the extreme left, so that no-one else got a look in, so rapidly voted for a non-extremist.
Starmer isn’t a centrist (or at least, if he is he’s hid it well). But perhaps just as Miliband’s narrow defeat shocked Labour into self-indulgence, perhaps Corbyn’s brutal pounding has shocked them back into understanding politics really is all about power.
I can see that's a possible explanation but SFAICS those who backed Jezza into his position as leader are in fact the sort of left who much prefer protest to power, like Jezza himself. Why and how the rapidity of the change?
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
Oh please let Labour double down on 'progressive metropolitans' - I'd really love to see them crack the glass floor of 150 MPs...
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?
I have not yet seen a really convincing account of how a party formed and molded by the extreme left, so that no-one else got a look in, so rapidly voted for a non-extremist.
As I have said on here a few times, much of the Corbyn vote was - bizarre as it may sound - personal. A lot of Labour members liked him and for that reason were, shamefully, prepared to overlook all the baggage and the poison that came with him.
Blimey, that’s hurling Corbyn under a bus with a vengeance.
‘It’s not about vindicating policies.’
I have to say - that was impressive. I will wait for more details on policies and personnel (which he quite rightly wouldn’t discuss) but if he runs the party along the principles he’s outlined I can easily imagine voting for this guy.
I would prefer your first statement more if your metaphor was in fact a reality!
Hugely impressed by Keir Starmers first media outing .
What a breath of fresh air .
I agree. He's excellent. I didn't vote for him but I am happy to see him in the job. I think he'll do great. Nice contrast to Boris Johnson too. The "dull" moniker is nonsense and only demonstrates how people have become coarsened by the steady diet of dumbed down populist messaging in recent times. In truth there is nothing wrong with calm and studied, elegantly expressed political argument which seeks neither to amuse nor entertain. From now on let's leave all the fluff to "Boris" and Michael McIntyre and the like. Inform, educate, persuade - this is what Starmer is all about. He is broadsheet not tabloid. Or to put it another way he treats the public like adults. The calculation being that if you treat them like adults they will behave like adults at the next election and vote Labour. It's a risk, obviously, but IMO it's a risk worth taking.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
My Spanish is pretty poor, but am I right in thinking that says of c.131,000 cases just 38,000 have recovered, compared to 12,400 deaths?
Yes effectively about 5000 new cases, 600+ deaths And 3800 more recovered.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
Gosh - the numbers are falling really rapidly in Spain - much more so than Italy as a whole. In a sense it looks more like Lombardy than Italy as a whole.
I wonder if that means that Spain has had a shorter but sharper epidemic than Italy on average. They will (I'd guess) end up with similar number of fatalities but perhaps over a shorter time span. Alternatively, perhaps Italy just had so many cases (like Wuhan) that were under the radar??
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?
I have not yet seen a really convincing account of how a party formed and molded by the extreme left, so that no-one else got a look in, so rapidly voted for a non-extremist.
As I have said on here a few times, much of the Corbyn vote was - bizarre as it may sound - personal. A lot of Labour members liked him and for that reason were, shamefully, prepared to overlook all the baggage and the poison that came with him.
Equally much of the anti- Corbyn vote was personal too.
Panic buying recommendation: fans. As soon as it’s properly hot there will be a run on these from home workers and there is no way that Chinese manufacturing and supply chains will cope.
Not a problem. My punkawallah will be at least 2m away at all times. Although I might consider lengthening his rope a little....
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?
I have not yet seen a really convincing account of how a party formed and molded by the extreme left, so that no-one else got a look in, so rapidly voted for a non-extremist.
Starmer isn’t a centrist (or at least, if he is he’s hid it well). But perhaps just as Miliband’s narrow defeat shocked Labour into self-indulgence, perhaps Corbyn’s brutal pounding has shocked them back into understanding politics really is all about power.
I can see that's a possible explanation but SFAICS those who backed Jezza into his position as leader are in fact the sort of left who much prefer protest to power, like Jezza himself. Why and how the rapidity of the change?
All political parties oscillate between self indulgence and the pursuit of power from time to time. The Tories had a bit of a period of that in the late 90s-early 2000s. What was curious about the Labour timing was that it wasn’t after an initial election defeat (I.e in 2010) but actually after 5 years out of power - hence prolonging a Tory government for over a decade.
For the past 40 years Labour have largely bounced between electorally appealing figures and comfort blankets. Jezza was the ultimate comfort blanket to the left - he didn’t give us much comfort though.
Hugely impressed by Keir Starmers first media outing .
What a breath of fresh air .
I agree. He's excellent. I didn't vote for him but I am happy to see him in the job. I think he'll do great. Nice contrast to Boris Johnson too. The "dull" moniker is nonsense and only demonstrates how people have become coarsened by the steady diet of dumbed down populist messaging in recent times. In truth there is nothing wrong with calm and studied, elegantly expressed political argument which seeks neither to amuse nor entertain. From now on let's leave all of that to "Boris" and Michael McIntyre and the like. Inform, educate, persuade - this is what Starmer is all about. He is broadsheet not tabloid. Or to put it another way he treats the public like adults. The calculation being that if you treat them like adults they will behave like adults at the next election and vote Labour. It's a risk, obviously, but IMO it's a risk worth taking.
I love broadsheets. But have you seen what broadsheet circulation is like these days?
Another drop in deaths just announced in Spain. Weekend figures can be unreliable, though, so we’ll need a few more days of numbers before we can be confident of a trend.
Weekend death stats seem to have been relatively reliable, it’s the Monday and Tuesday figures that are confused by weekends.
At least, that is how it has looked, based on the assumption that the real progression is relatively smooth, whichever direction it is headed in,
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Half baked more like
But Malc, you think that of every politician bar Clarke and Salmond.
Those of us repelled by Corbynism have already left. It's certainly interesting seeing the most bonkers cases announcing their departure, though a lot more need to go to make it a party I could associate myself with again.
Has The Jezziah self isolated or was he removed?
I have not yet seen a really convincing account of how a party formed and molded by the extreme left, so that no-one else got a look in, so rapidly voted for a non-extremist.
Starmer isn’t a centrist (or at least, if he is he’s hid it well). But perhaps just as Miliband’s narrow defeat shocked Labour into self-indulgence, perhaps Corbyn’s brutal pounding has shocked them back into understanding politics really is all about power.
I can see that's a possible explanation but SFAICS those who backed Jezza into his position as leader are in fact the sort of left who much prefer protest to power, like Jezza himself. Why and how the rapidity of the change?
Four election defeats in a row can wake up many a dreamer. The hard core of 70s protest activists is pretty small, and many of the newer converts to that style may have deep down believed they would win even as they talked a good game about purity and the Jezziah, and they are discovering themselves to be a lot more pragmatic than they realised.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
My Spanish is pretty poor, but am I right in thinking that says of c.131,000 cases just 38,000 have recovered, compared to 12,400 deaths?
Yes effectively about 5000 new cases, 600+ deaths And 3800 more recovered.
So one in four diagnosed cases that have so far been resolved, ended in death?
Obviously, many others will have been very mild, or asymptomatic, but that’s a stunning statistic.
If someone can prove I have misunderstood, I would be grateful.
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Half baked more like
But Malc, you think that of every politician bar Clarke and Salmond.
Hugely impressed by Keir Starmers first media outing .
What a breath of fresh air .
I agree. He's excellent. I didn't vote for him but I am happy to see him in the job. I think he'll do great. Nice contrast to Boris Johnson too. The "dull" moniker is nonsense and only demonstrates how people have become coarsened by the steady diet of dumbed down populist messaging in recent times. In truth there is nothing wrong with calm and studied, elegantly expressed political argument which seeks neither to amuse nor entertain. From now on let's leave all the fluff to "Boris" and Michael McIntyre and the like. Inform, educate, persuade - this is what Starmer is all about. He is broadsheet not tabloid. Or to put it another way he treats the public like adults. The calculation being that if you treat them like adults they will behave like adults at the next election and vote Labour. It's a risk, obviously, but IMO it's a risk worth taking.
Good post, except for the bit about Michael McIntyre being amusing and entertaining.
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Half baked more like
But Malc, you think that of every politician bar Clarke and Salmond.
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
He's not immediately offputting to a lot of people like Corbyn was because of his background, and he looks and sounds solid and dependable. Corbyn found Labour's floor, so Starmer need do little to be better, and while he may well show himself in time to not be that great, he clearly has parliamentary and political skills that Corbyn did not have.
I think Labour has to make some decent progress against the SNP to neutralise the fear among the English that a Labour-SNP Coalition would see the Scottish Nationalists tyrannize England. This makes the 2021 Holyrood elections really quite important. If Labour were to contrive to successfully force the SNP out of government it would make a huge difference.
Doesn't look likely at the moment though.
Not ever does it look likely, they are useless to the core.
If Labour repeated the 27% they got at the 2017 general election in Scotland and the Tories repeated the 25% they got at the 2019 general election in Scotland at Holyrood next year, then there would be a Unionist majority as Holyrood uses PR and Sturgeon would face the fate of May in 2017, in office but not in power
Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that. The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
Hugely impressed by Keir Starmers first media outing .
What a breath of fresh air .
I agree. He's excellent. I didn't vote for him but I am happy to see him in the job. I think he'll do great. Nice contrast to Boris Johnson too. The "dull" moniker is nonsense and only demonstrates how people have become coarsened by the steady diet of dumbed down populist messaging in recent times. In truth there is nothing wrong with calm and studied, elegantly expressed political argument which seeks neither to amuse nor entertain. From now on let's leave all of that to "Boris" and Michael McIntyre and the like. Inform, educate, persuade - this is what Starmer is all about. He is broadsheet not tabloid. Or to put it another way he treats the public like adults. The calculation being that if you treat them like adults they will behave like adults at the next election and vote Labour. It's a risk, obviously, but IMO it's a risk worth taking.
I love broadsheets. But have you seen what broadsheet circulation is like these days?
Nipping down to the local corner shop to get the broadsheets - is that within Govt. guidlelines? Or if only as part of your daily exercise?
I suspect the editors will have something to say on the matter.....
Oh please let Labour double down on 'progressive metropolitans' - I'd really love to see them crack the glass floor of 150 MPs...
No, that's the new "base", is what I mean. The heartlands are Hampstead not Hartlepool. But it's only a foundation. We must attract plenty of other voters too in order to win a general election. Twas always thus. And Starmer should be able to do it IMO.
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
Burgon wasn’t trounced. He came third.
I’ll take it. It’s clear he didn’t come close and that’s what matters.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.
Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
Class is never in the past, it just evolves. Clearly the heyday of unionized heavy industry has gone, but even in the Seventies that was a force for improving own terms and conditions rather than ideological, apart from a few short stewards.
The new working class is decentralized, and non-unionised, in a much wider range of service industries. They are also increasingly educated, female and multi-ethnic. Nationalisation of these industries is not the way to improve terms and conditions in the way it was for the miners and railway men of the postwar period.
Society changes, but it is not impossible for the Labour party to appeal simultaneously to urban hipsters and the new working class. Adapting the welfare state to a more fluid, freelancing society is potentially a winner. It is those at the moment most appreciating a safety net, and its absence, whether ZHC barmaid, self employed hairdresser or freelance management consultant.
Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?
Does 40 with less than perfect form get me to parity?
Really - in one go?
Yes, but as I said many I doubt would pass muster as 'proper'.
Started trying to some press ups in the new year, starting out just 10 in one go. 3 months later and it's a wibbly 40, I don't know how people do them, I really don't.
What Starmer just did on Marr was really what we should expect from a competent, savvy leader of the opposition at a time like this. But because we have lacked one for so long it seemed extraordinary and new. Great, isn’t it?
It's like when I had a good, freshly baked loaf the other day. No frills, not some luxury dessert, but it was so good in its simple pleasure that it really struck me
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
Half baked more like
But Malc, you think that of every politician bar Clarke and Salmond.
Surely Salmond can be struck off that list?
Och, you'll rue the day.....
What kind of numpty is Pete, slagging off the innocent, best politician the UK has ever seen.
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
Burgon wasn’t trounced. He came third.
I’ll take it. It’s clear he didn’t come close and that’s what matters.
Butler finishing fifth and last was probably more important than Burgon doing so. The only slight failure was Murray losing to him.
Quick though: although the formal lockdown started on Monday 23rd, the pubs / clubs / theatres were all shut from the Saturday - it's not the same as a lockdown but as far as I'm aware, in Spain / Italy, such measures only started when the formal lockdown began (in Spain) and a couple of days after the lockdown in Italy. I wonder if that, informal but pretty directed social distancing, will have an effect upon the shape of our epidemic (for example, slightly shifting down the maximum number of cases / deaths)? Then of course there is the clear fall in transport usage for the week before the lockdown as well...
I liked Giles Dilnot’s comment that the people who seem appalled to see a few people scattered around a park on a lovely spring day are probably not living in an inner London high rise
Absolutely!
And this fascist attack on people driving to the countryside. Why the fuck shouldn't they? If they are in their own cars and in a remote area they are not virus vectors. We are totally ridiculous sometimes.
You can even hear on social media an argument that they might crash their cars on the way and divert A&E staff. I mean really. Is that our level of argument now?
Agree. It's a true scandal in the making and unnecessary. I am lucky. I live in an area where there are a million places to exercise and sunbathe (good weather for it about 2 days a year) where the chances of finding another person is almost nil and the prospect of a lurking copper is zero.
What on earth are urban people in rooms and flats supposed to do? What are parks for? It's bonkers.
By way of token gesture our local authority has locked the gates of the cemetery. But its walls are two feet high.
You are both ignoring the fury from locals who are strictly following stay at home only to see outsiders drive into their communities in a selfish desire to get on with their lives
Here in North Wales the police are enforcing the regulations with the total support of our communities and indeed some are to be prosecuted in the magistates courts under the Welsh government legislation on covid 19
And this is one piece of Welsh labour legislation that sees widescale support
Not surprising reaction from you.
You must be careful Big G. Oldies who are doing ok or who are past it telling the young who might live in very restricted circumstances how to protect them is not an especially good look.
The not a good look is your unpleasant response and talking of the young, a five year old died yesterday
Why can't everyone stay indoors and keep me safe.
I am doing just that Topping
Delighted to hear that Malc.
Out of beer and my delivery seems to be taking forever, was reduced to one can of Brewdog 0.5% yesterday. It is a nightmare.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
"The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead."
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
Spot on. As Luckyguy says herd immunity is the "only game in town". It became a hot potato due to media coverage. Starmer is just cashing in on the stupidity.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.
Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
Class is never in the past, it just evolves.
I disagree. The language of it has not shifted more than a few iotas in decades, when if it is simply a matter of evolution it's now so different its barely recognizable. Class warriors might as well be talking about a different world to the one we actually live in, which actually prevents addressing any issues of class that do still exist. The younger ones still talk about the same things as the older ones, as angry as if they were there at the time - miners, and Thatcher.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
My Spanish is pretty poor, but am I right in thinking that says of c.131,000 cases just 38,000 have recovered, compared to 12,400 deaths?
Yes effectively about 5000 new cases, 600+ deaths And 3800 more recovered.
So one in four diagnosed cases that have so far been resolved, ended in death?
Obviously, many others will have been very mild, or asymptomatic, but that’s a stunning statistic.
If someone can prove I have misunderstood, I would be grateful.
Deaths represent 9.4% of total cases identified. Resolved means got better so at the moment recovery rate is about 23% so far
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.
Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
Class is never in the past, it just evolves. Clearly the heyday of unionized heavy industry has gone, but even in the Seventies that was a force for improving own terms and conditions rather than ideological, apart from a few short stewards.
The new working class is decentralized, and non-unionised, in a much wider range of service industries. They are also increasingly educated, female and multi-ethnic. Nationalisation of these industries is not the way to improve terms and conditions in the way it was for the miners and railway men of the postwar period.
Society changes, but it is not impossible for the Labour party to appeal simultaneously to urban hipsters and the new working class. Adapting the welfare state to a more fluid, freelancing society is potentially a winner. It is those at the moment most appreciating a safety net, and its absence, whether ZHC barmaid, self employed hairdresser or freelance management consultant.
The paradox for Labour is that measures to promote economic equality are best supported in societies that feel themselves to be one people. Whereas Labour's social policies - i.e. turbocharged identity politics - are almost perfectly designed to ensure atomization and fragmentation, thus defeating its economic message. It should really choose one or the other, but will instead soldier on with both, and end up falling between two stools.
Starmer on Marr now, says he will work constructively with the government and receive Privy Council briefings but says the government should not have originally pursued herd immunity and was slow on rolling out testing
benefit of hindsight..
Pursuing herd immunity is still the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. Is Starmer's policy to lock down until there is a vaccine in sufficient quantity that the whole country can get it? Stupid man.
There is still an element of unreality about this. The choices are a permanent lock down and economic ruin, a vaccine or herd immunity. There are no other easy options. We can only hope that Bill Gates comes through on the vaccine.
I think we are already heading towards a significant proportion of the population having been infected, and if there is a plateau for a month or so I can imagine it could rise to a quarter of the populaton - perhaps more like half in Inner London. That would make it appreciably easier to control further outbreaks, particularly if the virus does become less easily transmissible in the Summer.
Agreed. The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead. But ultimately unless we get a vaccine that is the ball park, even if it takes several years and multiple waves. Suggesting it was a mistake or a policy error simply shows a reluctance to face that reality.
But I think there are big practical differences between acquiring a significant degree of herd immunity during two or three smaller waves, rather than a single big one, which seemed to be the original plan:
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
"The reason herd immunity became a hot potato was because it came with a tariff of 500k dead."
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.
Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
There's no such thing as ANY demographic generalization. We are all unique. But WWC is no worse than any other - e.g. "Metro Liberals".
The Tories at GE19 were about working class aspiration? That's a stretch! Most of those voters went blue due to (i) Get Brexit Done and (ii) Disliking Corbyn and (iii) Liking "Boris". This 3rd factor being underestimated IMO.
No evenly spread for sure; but it seems that , taken as a whole, the NHS is operating under capacity. The next two weeks could challenge this though.
The key to the lockdown - indeed the rationale for it - is stopping the NHS from "falling over", while at the same time there being sufficient infections so as to maximise immunity in the population.
If the NHS in under-utilised then the strict appliance of lockdown regulations by the police starts to look unreasonable.
I think the government realise all this but are trying to walk a fine line.
I would suggest that the relaxation should be by local authority rather than nationally. It is likely that the cities will need to be locked down longer than rural areas. Obviously not a total relaxation either, but perhaps a reopening of businesses and shops, with social distancing.
I live within the city of Newcastle, but I can see Northumberland from my window. In such a case, how would that work? I don’t think it would.
Because you are an exceptionally reasonable, rational individual.
I wonder about Sheffield and the Peaks, though.
Will @TSE be able to stand the temptation? If I recall correctly, he even lives in a stolen bit of Derbyshire.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
My Spanish is pretty poor, but am I right in thinking that says of c.131,000 cases just 38,000 have recovered, compared to 12,400 deaths?
Yes effectively about 5000 new cases, 600+ deaths And 3800 more recovered.
So one in four diagnosed cases that have so far been resolved, ended in death?
Obviously, many others will have been very mild, or asymptomatic, but that’s a stunning statistic.
If someone can prove I have misunderstood, I would be grateful.
Deaths represent 9.4% of total cases identified. Resolved means got better so at the moment recovery rate is about 23% so far
That’s what I meant. You are only about three times as likely to have recovered fully after what? Three weeks as to have died.
Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that. The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it. I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
Twenty press ups this morning with perfect form - can anyone beat that?
Does 40 with less than perfect form get me to parity?
Really - in one go?
Yes, but as I said many I doubt would pass muster as 'proper'.
Started trying to some press ups in the new year, starting out just 10 in one go. 3 months later and it's a wibbly 40, I don't know how people do them, I really don't.
Exercise sucks.
Exercise sucks, but I`m really missing the gym. Gives me such a self-esteem boost though.
Actualización de los datos de coronavirus en España, según el Ministerio de Sanidad: Son ya 130.759 los casos y los fallecidos ascienden a 12.418. Aumentan también los recuperados: 38.080. Los contagiados que han requerido inreso hospitalario en UCI son 6.861
Gosh - the numbers are falling really rapidly in Spain - much more so than Italy as a whole. In a sense it looks more like Lombardy than Italy as a whole.
I wonder if that means that Spain has had a shorter but sharper epidemic than Italy on average. They will (I'd guess) end up with similar number of fatalities but perhaps over a shorter time span. Alternatively, perhaps Italy just had so many cases (like Wuhan) that were under the radar??
I think yesterday was the first day that we recorded more deaths than Italy.
Why is anyone expecting Starmer to be any better than previous Labour leaders?
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
I think some of it is a sense of relief after 5 years of an absolute nightmare. To be fair most people would look good against Corbyn. Except perhaps RLB and Burgon. So very glad they were trounced.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
Burgon wasn’t trounced. He came third.
Second wasn't it, but on 17%?
Second on the first and second ballots, third overall because he wasn’t transfer-friendly.
I think Labour has to make some decent progress against the SNP to neutralise the fear among the English that a Labour-SNP Coalition would see the Scottish Nationalists tyrannize England. This makes the 2021 Holyrood elections really quite important. If Labour were to contrive to successfully force the SNP out of government it would make a huge difference.
Doesn't look likely at the moment though.
Not ever does it look likely, they are useless to the core.
If Labour repeated the 27% they got at the 2017 general election in Scotland and the Tories repeated the 25% they got at the 2019 general election in Scotland at Holyrood next year, then there would be a Unionist majority as Holyrood uses PR and Sturgeon would face the fate of May in 2017, in office but not in power
If your granny had bollox perhaps she would be your grandfather. Far more likely to happen than your fantasy.
Quick though: although the formal lockdown started on Monday 23rd, the pubs / clubs / theatres were all shut from the Saturday - it's not the same as a lockdown but as far as I'm aware, in Spain / Italy, such measures only started when the formal lockdown began (in Spain) and a couple of days after the lockdown in Italy. I wonder if that, informal but pretty directed social distancing, will have an effect upon the shape of our epidemic (for example, slightly shifting down the maximum number of cases / deaths)? Then of course there is the clear fall in transport usage for the week before the lockdown as well...
A lot of events were starting to be cancelled but no idea about theaters and cinemas. Did many pubs or restaurants close in UK before they had to?
Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that. The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it. I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
My reference was to a post about going out and buying newspapers. Any newspapers.
Don't newspapers transmit the virus. Really, I mean, not virtually, and someone has to either go out and buy the thing, or someone else has to deliver it.
OKC, visiting your holiday home , especially when you are on radio and TV hourly saying DO NOT GO OUT, is hardly essential journey. For the CMO to be doing it is mind boggling and the thick halfwitted numpty should have been job hunting by now. Good pal of Sturgeon's so we can be sure we will hear plenty feeble excuses why she just had to take her whole family there, stay overnight , beach walks etc.
Malc, I don't quite know why you're dragging me into this. I think she's a very foolish lady dog too, setting a bad example and all that. The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
Given you used the picture of her flaunting the rules may perhaps explain why I posted my opinion that she was a complete arse about it. I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
The bigger story is that there is a very knowledgeable doctor available but because he is a "YOON" Mrs Sturgeon has picked this far less suitable candidate - who also turns out can't follow advice.
The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.
Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.
I think Labour has to make some decent progress against the SNP to neutralise the fear among the English that a Labour-SNP Coalition would see the Scottish Nationalists tyrannize England. This makes the 2021 Holyrood elections really quite important. If Labour were to contrive to successfully force the SNP out of government it would make a huge difference.
Doesn't look likely at the moment though.
Not ever does it look likely, they are useless to the core.
If Labour repeated the 27% they got at the 2017 general election in Scotland and the Tories repeated the 25% they got at the 2019 general election in Scotland at Holyrood next year, then there would be a Unionist majority as Holyrood uses PR and Sturgeon would face the fate of May in 2017, in office but not in power
If your granny had bollox perhaps she would be your grandfather. Far more likely to happen than your fantasy.
Yes. Of course every vote is welcome but we (Labour) should not bust a gut trying to win back the WWC if the WWC have gone rogue. Because if we do that we will lose our new base which is now more important - progressive metropolitans.
The key is to accept that there is no such thing as a WWC. The definition that some Labour activists have of "working class" and the definition of people who would be labelled as such are completely different.
Class war, class action, it's all the past. The Tories won these voters by talking about aspiration and offering them a better future. Labour can win these votes - as Blair's Labour did - by doing the same.
Class is never in the past, it just evolves. Clearly the heyday of unionized heavy industry has gone, but even in the Seventies that was a force for improving own terms and conditions rather than ideological, apart from a few short stewards.
The new working class is decentralized, and non-unionised, in a much wider range of service industries. They are also increasingly educated, female and multi-ethnic. Nationalisation of these industries is not the way to improve terms and conditions in the way it was for the miners and railway men of the postwar period.
Society changes, but it is not impossible for the Labour party to appeal simultaneously to urban hipsters and the new working class. Adapting the welfare state to a more fluid, freelancing society is potentially a winner. It is those at the moment most appreciating a safety net, and its absence, whether ZHC barmaid, self employed hairdresser or freelance management consultant.
The paradox for Labour is that measures to promote economic equality are best supported in societies that feel themselves to be one people. Whereas Labour's social policies - i.e. turbocharged identity politics - are almost perfectly designed to ensure atomization and fragmentation, thus defeating its economic message. It should really choose one or the other, but will instead soldier on with both, and end up falling between two stools.
I disagree. Brexitism is the most turbocharged identity politics of my lifetime. A free society is one at ease with diversity, and that is the future.
Comments
Keir Starmer, the freshly baked loaf of british politics?
https://www.metopera.org/user-information/nightly-met-opera-streams/
(Recommended wine pairing: a full-bodied red, perhaps a mature Châteauneuf du Pape)
People allowed back
i) Only British nationals & foreign national essential key workers allowed to return (Thinking @Foxy colleagues here - NHS Doctors/nurses)
ii) 14 days enforced quarantine for returners, particularly from hotspots.
iii) Airfreight can continue
The paperwork for the returners of non British nationals needs should come from a hospital or some such.
'In New Zealand, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said in a televised address that "going hard and going early" seemed to be working - before adding: "While compliance has been generally strong, there are still some I would charitably describe as idiots." New Zealand has had 1,039 confirmed cases of the virus, and one death.'
We missed our chance to take the same approach.
Good. If we have a sensible leader of the opposition we all benefit. If Starmer can convince me that a Labour government would enact sensible centre-left policies without going full Venezuela then I might have to look twice at what they offer. As someone else said if we can get to a point where a Labour government is not a frightening prospect it would be a nice change from the insanity of Corbynism.
And 3800 more recovered.
I wonder if that means that Spain has had a shorter but sharper epidemic than Italy on average. They will (I'd guess) end up with similar number of fatalities but perhaps over a shorter time span. Alternatively, perhaps Italy just had so many cases (like Wuhan) that were under the radar??
Labour have been unfit for purpose for as long as I can remember.
For the past 40 years Labour have largely bounced between electorally appealing figures and comfort blankets. Jezza was the ultimate comfort blanket to the left - he didn’t give us much comfort though.
At least, that is how it has looked, based on the assumption that the real progression is relatively smooth, whichever direction it is headed in,
Obviously, many others will have been very mild, or asymptomatic, but that’s a stunning statistic.
If someone can prove I have misunderstood, I would be grateful.
They have a long way to go yet, we’re 4 years out from the next election but it’s a welcome change to actually see a grown up in charge.
The point I was making up-thread is that 'isolation' in castle or detached house is a great deal easier that the sort of place some people have in which to live. The sort of place TFS described earlier today, and which is all some people can afford.
I suspect the editors will have something to say on the matter.....
(1) During one big wave there would be a tendency to overshoot the percentage needed for herd immunity. That's why there was talk of up to 80% possibly being infected, rather than 60%, which would be roughly the percentage needed for herd immunity.
(2) Conversely, if we got up to - say - 40% in two smaller waves, even though that wouldn't be enough for herd immunity in normal life, it might make it possible for much milder social distancing to suppress further outbreaks in the medium term.
(3) A larger proportion could be given medical care during several small waves rather than one big one.
(4) In subsequent waves here would be time for better arrangements to be made for those who need to be isolated. I'm sure a lot of elderly and vulnerable people are still having to go to the shops now, because they have no alternative.
(5) In subsequent waves we should have much better information about the spread of the virus and hopefully about more effective treatments.
The new working class is decentralized, and non-unionised, in a much wider range of service industries. They are also increasingly educated, female and multi-ethnic. Nationalisation of these industries is not the way to improve terms and conditions in the way it was for the miners and railway men of the postwar period.
Society changes, but it is not impossible for the Labour party to appeal simultaneously to urban hipsters and the new working class. Adapting the welfare state to a more fluid, freelancing society is potentially a winner. It is those at the moment most appreciating a safety net, and its absence, whether ZHC barmaid, self employed hairdresser or freelance management consultant.
Started trying to some press ups in the new year, starting out just 10 in one go. 3 months later and it's a wibbly 40, I don't know how people do them, I really don't.
Exercise sucks.
The model used indicated it came with a tariff of 500k dead. That might not have been the reality.
Swedish modellers take a different view:
https://unherd.com/2020/03/all-eyes-on-the-swedish-coronavirus-experiment/
I'll pass for the moment.
I mean, forget the political cost - I’d find it impossible to look myself in the mirror ever again if I’d made that call and got it wrong.
The Tories at GE19 were about working class aspiration? That's a stretch! Most of those voters went blue due to (i) Get Brexit Done and (ii) Disliking Corbyn and (iii) Liking "Boris". This 3rd factor being underestimated IMO.
I wonder about Sheffield and the Peaks, though.
Will @TSE be able to stand the temptation? If I recall correctly, he even lives in a stolen bit of Derbyshire.
I thought the whole point of the site was to reply to people's posts and give their opinions but perhaps I have got it wrong. I did not say anything personal about you I merely added my opinion on the story you posted, so hard to see why you think I am "dragging you into it".
https://labour.org.uk/people/leadership-elections-hub-2020/leadership-elections-2020-results/
I`ve always admired the hedonistic tendency in you DuraAce. Sadly missing these days.
The government and operation of the SNP government in a microcosm.
Usually its just croynism and corruption - but this decision could have more serious outcomes.