Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Would be easier to go one stage further and do a French style no-driving.
There isn’t much point in special measures for London if every Londoner runs for Euston and Waterloo the minute it’s announced, Italian style.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
3 things. 1. I think the Government and BJ are getting much better I would go as far as to say the PM was very good today. 2 Why is our death rate still so high compared to others at 4%? Germany incredibly low but even compared to France the USA and many others we are very high I dont really know why.
3 We seem to think 20000 deaths is a good outcome. That is 6 times more than China and our population is far smaller. Expectation management or grim reality?
I wouldn't use China as a benchmark in this at all.
i) You really can't believe their numbers
ii) They used measures that I think Western Liberal countries will not undertake.
I am very sceptical about the number of cases being reported in China,.
Being the cause of this outbreak has been a major blow to their international presitge and I believe the figures are being massaged to save face and tell the world how brilliant they have been at sorting it out.
Did any other country try to conceal the virus in the first place and silence doctors and journalists that reported it?
The World Health Organisation seem to believe them. They had one fresh case declared today.
But it is clear no other western government does.
Really? When did they say that? Restrictions are slowly being relaxed across China. You cannot hide that many deaths, if they were still happening.
I am not suggesting they still have 10,000 of cases and running the crematoriums 24/7 any more. I think they definitely have suppressed it. But I doubt it is 1 case. They have now moved to the phase of shoring up the leadership with massive propaganda. They can't allow it to be that cases jump to say 100 or 200 in a day (even if they have a handle on it). South Korea with only a fraction of the population are still bumping along at 90-100 a day.
The WHO aren't going to pick a fight with them over minor fiddling of figures (which in a country the size of China is nearly impossible to confirm) when really they are trying to convince the world to follow somewhere between this and South Korea approach.
Also, my point was more about the total cases / deaths. Western government models are all result in far worse outcomes and this is coming from a point of already knowing about this and trying to suppress it. China let this thing run wild for 3 months.
Finally, the original model the UK government used was based solely on Chinese data, when they got the Italian data, they immediately doubled the hospitalization rate.
3 things. 1. I think the Government and BJ are getting much better I would go as far as to say the PM was very good today. 2 Why is our death rate still so high compared to others at 4%? Germany incredibly low but even compared to France the USA and many others we are very high I dont really know why.
3 We seem to think 20000 deaths is a good outcome. That is 6 times more than China and our population is far smaller. Expectation management or grim reality?
I wouldn't use China as a benchmark in this at all.
i) You really can't believe their numbers
ii) They used measures that I think Western Liberal countries will not undertake.
I am very sceptical about the number of cases being reported in China,.
Being the cause of this outbreak has been a major blow to their international presitge and I believe the figures are being massaged to save face and tell the world how brilliant they have been at sorting it out.
Did any other country try to conceal the virus in the first place and silence doctors and journalists that reported it?
The World Health Organisation seem to believe them. They had one fresh case declared today.
But it is clear no other western government does.
I cannot reconcile the UK, and other countries, belief in an iceberg of asymptomatic cases with what has happened in China. It took about 2 months from the first case to the start of serious action by the Chinese government. Did they really do such a great job of contact tracing that they suppressed the outbreak to basically nothing so quickly? China is a vast country with a huge population, with a lot of movement around their New Year, and yet there was apparently nothing like the spread in China that has been seen outside of China.
I'm not claiming any particular insight, or alleging anything underhand, but I do find the difference between inside and outside China very puzzling.
It appears now to go back to start of November (at least). That is when documents leaked government documents now state the first identified case.
So 3 months of totally unrestricted transmission in a densely packed city of 11 million people.
Yeah I was referring to that mid November start. It seems to me that you would have to pull off essentially perfect contact tracing, and as that article says so far they have found 266 cases from last year. It seems quite remarkable to me. Maybe China's mass surveillance infrastructure is so broad and effective that it has given them a real edge?
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
It's very depressing....and suggests that the lockdown will be more about stopping Londoners leaving...and quarantining the city
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
3 things. 1. I think the Government and BJ are getting much better I would go as far as to say the PM was very good today. 2 Why is our death rate still so high compared to others at 4%? Germany incredibly low but even compared to France the USA and many others we are very high I dont really know why.
3 We seem to think 20000 deaths is a good outcome. That is 6 times more than China and our population is far smaller. Expectation management or grim reality?
I wouldn't use China as a benchmark in this at all.
i) You really can't believe their numbers
ii) They used measures that I think Western Liberal countries will not undertake.
I am very sceptical about the number of cases being reported in China,.
Being the cause of this outbreak has been a major blow to their international presitge and I believe the figures are being massaged to save face and tell the world how brilliant they have been at sorting it out.
Did any other country try to conceal the virus in the first place and silence doctors and journalists that reported it?
The World Health Organisation seem to believe them. They had one fresh case declared today.
But it is clear no other western government does.
I cannot reconcile the UK, and other countries, belief in an iceberg of asymptomatic cases with what has happened in China. It took about 2 months from the first case to the start of serious action by the Chinese government. Did they really do such a great job of contact tracing that they suppressed the outbreak to basically nothing so quickly? China is a vast country with a huge population, with a lot of movement around their New Year, and yet there was apparently nothing like the spread in China that has been seen outside of China.
I'm not claiming any particular insight, or alleging anything underhand, but I do find the difference between inside and outside China very puzzling.
It appears now to go back to start of November (at least). That is when documents leaked government documents now state the first identified case.
So 3 months of totally unrestricted transmission in a densely packed city of 11 million people.
Yeah I was referring to that mid November start. It seems to me that you would have to pull off essentially perfect contact tracing, and as that article says so far they have found 266 cases from last year. It seems quite remarkable to me. Maybe China's mass surveillance infrastructure is so broad and effective that it has given them a real edge?
Even if that really is patient zero, with the way the virus is, 1 case in mid November, more than likely means to be start of November when they contracted it.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
HYUFD always is keen to deploy the army, he suggested if the upstart scots declared udi
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
3 things. 1. I think the Government and BJ are getting much better I would go as far as to say the PM was very good today. 2 Why is our death rate still so high compared to others at 4%? Germany incredibly low but even compared to France the USA and many others we are very high I dont really know why.
3 We seem to think 20000 deaths is a good outcome. That is 6 times more than China and our population is far smaller. Expectation management or grim reality?
I wouldn't use China as a benchmark in this at all.
i) You really can't believe their numbers
ii) They used measures that I think Western Liberal countries will not undertake.
I am very sceptical about the number of cases being reported in China,.
Being the cause of this outbreak has been a major blow to their international presitge and I believe the figures are being massaged to save face and tell the world how brilliant they have been at sorting it out.
Did any other country try to conceal the virus in the first place and silence doctors and journalists that reported it?
The World Health Organisation seem to believe them. They had one fresh case declared today.
But it is clear no other western government does.
Really? When did they say that? Restrictions are slowly being relaxed across China. You cannot hide that many deaths, if they were still happening.
I am not suggesting they still have 10,000 of cases and running the crematoriums 24/7 any more. I think they definitely have suppressed it. But I doubt it is 1 case. They have now moved to the phase of shoring up the leadership with massive propaganda. They can't allow it to be that cases jump to say 100 or 200 in a day (even if they have a handle on it).
Also, my point was more about the total cases / deaths. Western government models are all result in far worse outcomes and this is coming from a point of already knowing about this and trying to suppress it. China let this thing run wild for 3 months.
Finally, the original model the UK government used was based solely on Chinese data, when they got the Italian data, they immediately doubled the hospitalization rate.
The interesting question to me about China is what the slope of growth of new infections is going forward.
Restrictions are not being removed all at once, and presumably they are going to have massively more testing than previously.
So, will it be doubling every 3 days, every 5 days, 10 days or 20 days?
If they are able to slow the transmission rate so that doubling happens (say) every 20 days, then the it makes an enormous difference to how manageable this is.
Assume, for example, that the underlying (real) new daily infections number is 20. If doubling is every three days, then three months later China will be seeing 20 * 2^30 cases a day (I think). Or rather, the whole population will have it.
On the other hand, if it's every 20 days, then it's 20 * 2^4.5. Which is a massively smaller number - 450 cases a day.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Didn't you watch Good Omens? They set the M25 on fire...
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
We should be grateful you never got them sent to Scotland, then.
Why is this? Italy, France and Spain are worse off than us at the moment.
Uk BoE is offering to do unlimited QE. Has tanked the currency.
I don't want to score points...but now being in the Euro is the place to be.... All that fucking bollocky fucking little English nationalism...all of us guilty-but when something like this comes along, what use is it?
You're ignorant. Having our own currency is the the place to be you muppet, the fact we are able and willing to do whatever QE that suits us is our choice as a sovereign nation with a sovereign currency.
The building is on fire and economies trapped within the dithering BoE are going to struggle far more than independent nations setting their own policies - just like last time!
Just like last time....???
What are you talking about....there is no last time....
The run on the pound today exposes our weaknesses....I'm as guilty as anyone because I never thought the Euro was a good idea....but now I do get REALLY get the big picture stuff...
Global capitalism will go for the weak points first...and sadly, when the NHS in London shortly collapses, the pound will go with it....strength in numbers...
No the run on the pound today demonstrates our strength. It is our strength in being able to print our own currency via QE when we need to do so to support the economy that is sending the pound down.
And by last time I mean the last crisis, the financial crisis. The Bank of England then too was able to promptly initiate QE while the dithering ECB (sorry wrote dithering BoE last time) took ages to grasp the seriousness of the problem and even then failed to find a policy that could work across the whole of Europe.
You're for some unknown reason viewing the pound going down as a bad thing. Its the natural consequence of a good thing right now - it is acting as a stabiliser!
I hope you are right.....it makes our FTSE cheaper, and may keep our pension funds afloat....but I am seriously worried
There's good reason to be worried, the whole world is worried, which is why our BoE are acting. The markets are reacting to our Central Banks swift action - don't interpret that as a bad thing.
If we were locked inside a burning building unable to act then this would be worse. Basically consider our own independent Central Bank as our own form of social distancing at the minute - its not nice, but it works!
How do we know it's not the start of a loss of confidence in sterling leading to hyperinflation?
3 things. 1. I think the Government and BJ are getting much better I would go as far as to say the PM was very good today. 2 Why is our death rate still so high compared to others at 4%? Germany incredibly low but even compared to France the USA and many others we are very high I dont really know why.
3 We seem to think 20000 deaths is a good outcome. That is 6 times more than China and our population is far smaller. Expectation management or grim reality?
I wouldn't use China as a benchmark in this at all.
i) You really can't believe their numbers
ii) They used measures that I think Western Liberal countries will not undertake.
I am very sceptical about the number of cases being reported in China,.
Being the cause of this outbreak has been a major blow to their international presitge and I believe the figures are being massaged to save face and tell the world how brilliant they have been at sorting it out.
Did any other country try to conceal the virus in the first place and silence doctors and journalists that reported it?
The World Health Organisation seem to believe them. They had one fresh case declared today.
But it is clear no other western government does.
Really? When did they say that? Restrictions are slowly being relaxed across China. You cannot hide that many deaths, if they were still happening.
I am not suggesting they still have 10,000 of cases and running the crematoriums 24/7 any more. I think they definitely have suppressed it. But I doubt it is 1 case. They have now moved to the phase of shoring up the leadership with massive propaganda. They can't allow it to be that cases jump to say 100 or 200 in a day (even if they have a handle on it).
Also, my point was more about the total cases / deaths. Western government models are all result in far worse outcomes and this is coming from a point of already knowing about this and trying to suppress it. China let this thing run wild for 3 months.
Finally, the original model the UK government used was based solely on Chinese data, when they got the Italian data, they immediately doubled the hospitalization rate.
The interesting question to me about China is what the slope of growth of new infections is going forward.
Restrictions are not being removed all at once, and presumably they are going to have massively more testing than previously.
So, will it be doubling every 3 days, every 5 days, 10 days or 20 days?
If they are able to slow the transmission rate so that doubling happens (say) every 20 days, then the it makes an enormous difference to how manageable this is.
Assume, for example, that the underlying (real) new daily infections number is 20. If doubling is every three days, then three months later China will be seeing 20 * 2^30 cases a day (I think). Or rather, the whole population will have it.
On the other hand, if it's every 20 days, then it's 20 * 2^4.5. Which is a massively smaller number - 450 cases a day.
Well we know they are going to aggressively test and make use of tech to force those who came into contact with those found to be positive into isolation for a period time.
Despite all the talk of closing the temporary isolation units, they are also still building capacity and appear convinced it will come back.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Why is this? Italy, France and Spain are worse off than us at the moment.
Uk BoE is offering to do unlimited QE. Has tanked the currency.
I don't want to score points...but now being in the Euro is the place to be.... All that fucking bollocky fucking little English nationalism...all of us guilty-but when something like this comes along, what use is it?
You're ignorant. Having our own currency is the the place to be you muppet, the fact we are able and willing to do whatever QE that suits us is our choice as a sovereign nation with a sovereign currency.
The building is on fire and economies trapped within the dithering BoE are going to struggle far more than independent nations setting their own policies - just like last time!
Just like last time....???
What are you talking about....there is no last time....
The run on the pound today exposes our weaknesses....I'm as guilty as anyone because I never thought the Euro was a good idea....but now I do get REALLY get the big picture stuff...
Global capitalism will go for the weak points first...and sadly, when the NHS in London shortly collapses, the pound will go with it....strength in numbers...
No the run on the pound today demonstrates our strength. It is our strength in being able to print our own currency via QE when we need to do so to support the economy that is sending the pound down.
And by last time I mean the last crisis, the financial crisis. The Bank of England then too was able to promptly initiate QE while the dithering ECB (sorry wrote dithering BoE last time) took ages to grasp the seriousness of the problem and even then failed to find a policy that could work across the whole of Europe.
You're for some unknown reason viewing the pound going down as a bad thing. Its the natural consequence of a good thing right now - it is acting as a stabiliser!
I hope you are right.....it makes our FTSE cheaper, and may keep our pension funds afloat....but I am seriously worried
There's good reason to be worried, the whole world is worried, which is why our BoE are acting. The markets are reacting to our Central Banks swift action - don't interpret that as a bad thing.
If we were locked inside a burning building unable to act then this would be worse. Basically consider our own independent Central Bank as our own form of social distancing at the minute - its not nice, but it works!
How do we know it's not the start of a loss of confidence in sterling leading to hyperinflation?
Because it would tank far more than that - an order of magnitude more - if that was the case.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
It's very depressing....and suggests that the lockdown will be more about stopping Londoners leaving...and quarantining the city
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Both these comments are not contributing to the debate
Why is this? Italy, France and Spain are worse off than us at the moment.
Uk BoE is offering to do unlimited QE. Has tanked the currency.
I don't want to score points...but now being in the Euro is the place to be.... All that fucking bollocky fucking little English nationalism...all of us guilty-but when something like this comes along, what use is it?
You're ignorant. Having our own currency is the the place to be you muppet, the fact we are able and willing to do whatever QE that suits us is our choice as a sovereign nation with a sovereign currency.
The building is on fire and economies trapped within the dithering BoE are going to struggle far more than independent nations setting their own policies - just like last time!
Just like last time....???
What are you talking about....there is no last time....
The run on the pound today exposes our weaknesses....I'm as guilty as anyone because I never thought the Euro was a good idea....but now I do get REALLY get the big picture stuff...
Global capitalism will go for the weak points first...and sadly, when the NHS in London shortly collapses, the pound will go with it....strength in numbers...
No the run on the pound today demonstrates our strength. It is our strength in being able to print our own currency via QE when we need to do so to support the economy that is sending the pound down.
And by last time I mean the last crisis, the financial crisis. The Bank of England then too was able to promptly initiate QE while the dithering ECB (sorry wrote dithering BoE last time) took ages to grasp the seriousness of the problem and even then failed to find a policy that could work across the whole of Europe.
You're for some unknown reason viewing the pound going down as a bad thing. Its the natural consequence of a good thing right now - it is acting as a stabiliser!
I hope you are right.....it makes our FTSE cheaper, and may keep our pension funds afloat....but I am seriously worried
There's good reason to be worried, the whole world is worried, which is why our BoE are acting. The markets are reacting to our Central Banks swift action - don't interpret that as a bad thing.
If we were locked inside a burning building unable to act then this would be worse. Basically consider our own independent Central Bank as our own form of social distancing at the minute - its not nice, but it works!
How do we know it's not the start of a loss of confidence in sterling leading to hyperinflation?
The ECB is implicitly backing similar orders of magnitude of spending in the Eurozone, so why would only we get hyperinflation?
I think the bigger issue, simply, is that when times get tough, investors repatriate funds, and that will tend to send the US Dollar, the Euro and the Swiss Franc higher. Nothing more sinister than that.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Your policies are going to throw so many on the dole your systems are going to fail and they will be left with no money. For the first time ever since I left college I know more unemployed people than I do employed. I dont think you realise the scale of what is going on. Ok only anecdote but if 6 of my 10 friends have been laid off this week and that is repeated amongst paye.....you have huge problems
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Well, discounting the setup of the string arrays, it was 5 lines of PHP....
I've been using Python since 2003, but have recently had to start using PHP. It's not been a pleasant experience, though the Laravel framework is nice. Also, is there a definitive answer on whether it's worth learning Kotlin for Android apps? It's supposed to have lots of advantages over Java, but it just looks horrible.
1. Do not shout at posters for being useless 2. Do not pretend that Remainers for hating the EU 3. Do not accuse Trots for being useless 4. Do not shout at Trots for small-mindedness 5. Do not deny that RCS for being brain dead 6. Do not shout at Remainers for being brain dead 7. Do not swear at python for hating the EU 8. Do not swear at Trots for being useless 9. Do not shout at Radiohead for being stupid 10. Do not hug python for hating the EU
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
Just got back from a pub (not a social gathering, pre-scheduled and critical meeting that will enable me to now work from home). The guy I was meeting and I sat in a corner well away from others working on my Laptop to make plans but I was surprised how busy the pub was. Quiet apparently for a Tuesday (I'd never been there before) but still plenty of people there and the pool table was always occupied. On the other hand every group of people there were quite distant from all the others, there was no general mingling.
Glad not to need to go to a pub now for the foreseeable future but that meeting was in the diary for a fortnight and I couldn't cancel it and rescheduling to a coffee shop would probable have been less socially distant.
Why didn’t you just ring this bloke up? Were you collecting something?
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Didn't you watch Good Omens? They set the M25 on fire...
1. Do not shout at posters for being useless 2. Do not pretend that Remainers for hating the EU 3. Do not accuse Trots for being useless 4. Do not shout at Trots for small-mindedness 5. Do not deny that RCS for being brain dead 6. Do not shout at Remainers for being brain dead 7. Do not swear at python for hating the EU 8. Do not swear at Trots for being useless 9. Do not shout at Radiohead for being stupid 10. Do not hug python for hating the EU
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
If an enforced lockdown is needed during the peak of the virus to reduce the death rate so be it.
You called yourself a libertarian earlier, if we had a libertarian government there would be no business bailouts, no statutory sick pay, no non contributory unemployment benefit, no healthcare beyond that paid for by private insurance and no state enforced suspension of evictions and people would literally starve if they could not get to a food bank with enough stock
1. Do not shout at posters for being useless 2. Do not pretend that Remainers for hating the EU 3. Do not accuse Trots for being useless 4. Do not shout at Trots for small-mindedness 5. Do not deny that RCS for being brain dead 6. Do not shout at Remainers for being brain dead 7. Do not swear at python for hating the EU 8. Do not swear at Trots for being useless 9. Do not shout at Radiohead for being stupid 10. Do not hug python for hating the EU
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Your policies are going to throw so many on the dole your systems are going to fail and they will be left with no money. For the first time ever since I left college I know more unemployed people than I do employed. I dont think you realise the scale of what is going on. Ok only anecdote but if 6 of my 10 friends have been laid off this week and that is repeated amongst paye.....you have huge problems
Just got back from a pub (not a social gathering, pre-scheduled and critical meeting that will enable me to now work from home). The guy I was meeting and I sat in a corner well away from others working on my Laptop to make plans but I was surprised how busy the pub was. Quiet apparently for a Tuesday (I'd never been there before) but still plenty of people there and the pool table was always occupied. On the other hand every group of people there were quite distant from all the others, there was no general mingling.
Glad not to need to go to a pub now for the foreseeable future but that meeting was in the diary for a fortnight and I couldn't cancel it and rescheduling to a coffee shop would probable have been less socially distant.
Why didn’t you just ring this bloke up? Were you collecting something?
No we were drafting a document together and really needed face to face discussion. Its done now but couldn't have done it the same way from home and it was time sensitive. I don't see how its any different than going to an office for 2 hours then going back home, just without the office.
Nobody else there though was working, everyone else there (whom I steered clear of) were clearly just socialising.
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Well, discounting the setup of the string arrays, it was 5 lines of PHP....
I've been using Python since 2003, but have recently had to start using PHP. It's not been a pleasant experience, though the Laravel framework is nice. Also, is there a definitive answer on whether it's worth learning Kotlin for Android apps? It's supposed to have lots of advantages over Java, but it just looks horrible.
TBH, I do not worry about any of them. I class them all as "Just Another Programming Language". Once you know the equivalents, they all work the same way.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Your policies are going to throw so many on the dole your systems are going to fail and they will be left with no money. For the first time ever since I left college I know more unemployed people than I do employed. I dont think you realise the scale of what is going on. Ok only anecdote but if 6 of my 10 friends have been laid off this week and that is repeated amongst paye.....you have huge problems
Are you arguing with yourself again?
no with HYUFD and his we will just send the army in if they don't comply because the tory policies helped everyone stuff he keeps propagandising
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Well, discounting the setup of the string arrays, it was 5 lines of PHP....
I've been using Python since 2003, but have recently had to start using PHP. It's not been a pleasant experience, though the Laravel framework is nice. Also, is there a definitive answer on whether it's worth learning Kotlin for Android apps? It's supposed to have lots of advantages over Java, but it just looks horrible.
TBH, I do not worry about any of them. I class them all as "Just Another Programming Language". Once you know the equivalents, they all work the same way.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
Just got back from a pub (not a social gathering, pre-scheduled and critical meeting that will enable me to now work from home). The guy I was meeting and I sat in a corner well away from others working on my Laptop to make plans but I was surprised how busy the pub was. Quiet apparently for a Tuesday (I'd never been there before) but still plenty of people there and the pool table was always occupied. On the other hand every group of people there were quite distant from all the others, there was no general mingling.
Glad not to need to go to a pub now for the foreseeable future but that meeting was in the diary for a fortnight and I couldn't cancel it and rescheduling to a coffee shop would probable have been less socially distant.
Why didn’t you just ring this bloke up? Were you collecting something?
No we were drafting a document together and really needed face to face discussion. Its done now but couldn't have done it the same way from home and it was time sensitive. I don't see how its any different than going to an office for 2 hours then going back home, just without the office.
Nobody else there though was working, everyone else there (whom I steered clear of) were clearly just socialising.
Fair enough. Hope the 100% WFH in future works out for you. You get used to after a while although I miss my one day a week in town!
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Well, discounting the setup of the string arrays, it was 5 lines of PHP....
I've been using Python since 2003, but have recently had to start using PHP. It's not been a pleasant experience, though the Laravel framework is nice. Also, is there a definitive answer on whether it's worth learning Kotlin for Android apps? It's supposed to have lots of advantages over Java, but it just looks horrible.
TBH, I do not worry about any of them. I class them all as "Just Another Programming Language". Once you know the equivalents, they all work the same way.
Jessica Potter (@DrJessPotter) is a respiratory specialist doctor working in London and a member of EveryDoctor, an organization that campaigns for the working rights of doctors.
It was a bit of an anti-Tory rant to be honest
You might have to get used to that for a bit.
Have you read it? It was "under-funded, under-paid, under-appreciated" staff. Could have been written any time, any place. Just her standard rant with a bit of coronavirus added on.
I'm really irritated with people trying to make political points at this stage
It was too political. But we as a society need to face up to some brutal choices about our decisions. This pandemic will force that upon us.
We can't offer universal health care on our current (old) tax take. It's impossible. We have a health care system that is hollowed out as a consequence. Public health in particular has been hollowed out.
But but but it gets a budget increase each year. Yes not enough, not enough by a long long way. This message will be brutally clear over the next few weeks and months. Get used to it.
Oh, I agree with that. We need to decide what we want as a society and then decide how we are going to pay for it. At the moment we look at the money first and then allocate it.
But that's a very different discussion to that article.
Yes collectively we have sown the wind.
That article will be repeated by millions of others.
Jessica Potter (@DrJessPotter) is a respiratory specialist doctor working in London and a member of EveryDoctor, an organization that campaigns for the working rights of doctors.
It was a bit of an anti-Tory rant to be honest
You might have to get used to that for a bit.
Have you read it? It was "under-funded, under-paid, under-appreciated" staff. Could have been written any time, any place. Just her standard rant with a bit of coronavirus added on.
I'm really irritated with people trying to make political points at this stage
It was too political. But we as a society need to face up to some brutal choices about our decisions. This pandemic will force that upon us.
We can't offer universal health care on our current (old) tax take. It's impossible. We have a health care system that is hollowed out as a consequence. Public health in particular has been hollowed out.
But but but it gets a budget increase each year. Yes not enough, not enough by a long long way. This message will be brutally clear over the next few weeks and months. Get used to it.
I don't think I ever encounter someone who will tell me how much expenditure on the NHS would satisfy them. All I am clear about is that when there is a Tory government it is never enough. What would be enough? It would be useful to know, either as an amount of money at current value or as a % of GDP/GNP. At least you would then know what sort of society the critics are aiming at.
It isn't that hard. The Nuffield Trust and the Health Foundation publish studies each year looking at the need of the population and what is required.
Due to an ageing society with increasing multimorbidity, the growth in need has gone up by more than the growth in expenditure. Therefore the service gets run down. Match growth in need to growth in expenditure and the service will keep up. Increase expenditure versus need and it will get better.
If you do that for long enough then you are talking a serious dent in % GDP. So you then need to talk about your priorities as a society. Most of the time that means spending more on the NHS to the public. Fine, do it then but increases taxes too. I say that as a Conservative voter. The end.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people is not thevway forward
If HYUFD ends a sentence “so be it” then the sentence proposes something bonkers or impossible - such as, from last year, “...if the tankers have to round the Cape of Good Hope to avoid the Straits of Hormuz, so be it”.
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Well, discounting the setup of the string arrays, it was 5 lines of PHP....
I've been using Python since 2003, but have recently had to start using PHP. It's not been a pleasant experience, though the Laravel framework is nice. Also, is there a definitive answer on whether it's worth learning Kotlin for Android apps? It's supposed to have lots of advantages over Java, but it just looks horrible.
TBH, I do not worry about any of them. I class them all as "Just Another Programming Language". Once you know the equivalents, they all work the same way.
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Well, discounting the setup of the string arrays, it was 5 lines of PHP....
I've been using Python since 2003, but have recently had to start using PHP. It's not been a pleasant experience, though the Laravel framework is nice. Also, is there a definitive answer on whether it's worth learning Kotlin for Android apps? It's supposed to have lots of advantages over Java, but it just looks horrible.
TBH, I do not worry about any of them. I class them all as "Just Another Programming Language". Once you know the equivalents, they all work the same way.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Your policies are going to throw so many on the dole your systems are going to fail and they will be left with no money. For the first time ever since I left college I know more unemployed people than I do employed. I dont think you realise the scale of what is going on. Ok only anecdote but if 6 of my 10 friends have been laid off this week and that is repeated amongst paye.....you have huge problems
Hence why Universal Credit is being easier to get immediately without having to go into the JobCentre or wait for it.
Jessica Potter (@DrJessPotter) is a respiratory specialist doctor working in London and a member of EveryDoctor, an organization that campaigns for the working rights of doctors.
It was a bit of an anti-Tory rant to be honest
You might have to get used to that for a bit.
Have you read it? It was "under-funded, under-paid, under-appreciated" staff. Could have been written any time, any place. Just her standard rant with a bit of coronavirus added on.
I'm really irritated with people trying to make political points at this stage
It was too political. But we as a society need to face up to some brutal choices about our decisions. This pandemic will force that upon us.
We can't offer universal health care on our current (old) tax take. It's impossible. We have a health care system that is hollowed out as a consequence. Public health in particular has been hollowed out.
But but but it gets a budget increase each year. Yes not enough, not enough by a long long way. This message will be brutally clear over the next few weeks and months. Get used to it.
Oh, I agree with that. We need to decide what we want as a society and then decide how we are going to pay for it. At the moment we look at the money first and then allocate it.
But that's a very different discussion to that article.
Yes collectively we have sown the wind.
That article will be repeated by millions of others.
Jessica Potter (@DrJessPotter) is a respiratory specialist doctor working in London and a member of EveryDoctor, an organization that campaigns for the working rights of doctors.
It was a bit of an anti-Tory rant to be honest
You might have to get used to that for a bit.
Have you read it? It was "under-funded, under-paid, under-appreciated" staff. Could have been written any time, any place. Just her standard rant with a bit of coronavirus added on.
I'm really irritated with people trying to make political points at this stage
It was too political. But we as a society need to face up to some brutal choices about our decisions. This pandemic will force that upon us.
We can't offer universal health care on our current (old) tax take. It's impossible. We have a health care system that is hollowed out as a consequence. Public health in particular has been hollowed out.
But but but it gets a budget increase each year. Yes not enough, not enough by a long long way. This message will be brutally clear over the next few weeks and months. Get used to it.
I don't think I ever encounter someone who will tell me how much expenditure on the NHS would satisfy them. All I am clear about is that when there is a Tory government it is never enough. What would be enough? It would be useful to know, either as an amount of money at current value or as a % of GDP/GNP. At least you would then know what sort of society the critics are aiming at.
It isn't that hard. The Nuffield Trust and the Health Foundation publish studies each year looking at the need of the population and what is required.
Due to an ageing society with increasing multimorbidity, the growth in need has gone up by more than the growth in expenditure. Therefore the service gets run down. Match growth in need to growth in expenditure and the service will keep up. Increase expenditure versus need and it will get better.
If you do that for long enough then you are talking a serious dent in % GDP. So you then need to talk about your priorities as a society. Most of the time that means spending more on the NHS to the public. Fine, do it then but increases taxes too. I say that as a Conservative voter. The end.
Are we any longer capable of having a sensible discussion of what we require, too many special interest groups, too many ready to cry murder if things aren't as funded as they would like
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
You can do that in about four lines in Python, and it'd be a whole bunch more readable.
Well, discounting the setup of the string arrays, it was 5 lines of PHP....
I've been using Python since 2003, but have recently had to start using PHP. It's not been a pleasant experience, though the Laravel framework is nice. Also, is there a definitive answer on whether it's worth learning Kotlin for Android apps? It's supposed to have lots of advantages over Java, but it just looks horrible.
TBH, I do not worry about any of them. I class them all as "Just Another Programming Language". Once you know the equivalents, they all work the same way.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
As a catastophiser...my views are this could possibly bring down the governance of world capitalism....
I think we (UK) are especially vulnerable outside a mainstream currency....but this is about picking up the crumbs.....
And, quite possibly, the likes of Cummings and Johnson are sitting around tables, drinking a glass of red wine, and listening to the likes of me telling them that...
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
Well at least it makes a change from BROTH.
I just had an email from a US restaurant advertising their “immune boosting bone broth” for home delivery.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Your policies are going to throw so many on the dole your systems are going to fail and they will be left with no money. For the first time ever since I left college I know more unemployed people than I do employed. I dont think you realise the scale of what is going on. Ok only anecdote but if 6 of my 10 friends have been laid off this week and that is repeated amongst paye.....you have huge problems
Hence why Universal Credit is being easier to get immediately without having to go into the JobCentre or wait for it.
ah yes the joy of universal credit where suddenly your home is too big or costs more than the number for your area.....have you ever applied for it? I unfortunately have had due to my age two periods of unemployement in the last 10 years
first one I got sanctioned for not looking for work just after they signed off my four interview claim forms for expenses for the last week because apparently I didn't use the right app for job searching
Then 2 years ago when I applied then got a letter stating that I have been declined because I didnt turn up for the initial interview which apparently they tried to text me the date of but the text didnt go so they gave up. I checked the phone number they had the correct one.
As a catastophiser...my views are this could possibly bring down the governance of world capitalism....
I think we (UK) are especially vulnerable outside a mainstream currency....but this is about picking up the crumbs.....
And, quite possibly, the likes of Cummings and Johnson are sitting around tables, drinking a glass of red wine, and listening to the likes of me telling them that...
New York has jumped by 1,334 cases today to 3,040 cases in total according to Worldometer.
Think about that - New York state, population c. 20m, has more cases than the UK.
No wonder they are now fitting out a building as a new hospital
The overall numbers are meaningless.....the real numbers are those who require critical and intensive therapies......those are the ones that will govern whether our health system can manage...and if our health system fails...it's going to be horrible with a huge capital H
People have panic bought black olives, it's madness! Managed to scavenge a few from Waitrose early on today after no luck in Tesco, Sainsbury, and Aldi. The olive bread is saved!
This started long before Brexit.... the 6502 was a radical design. Almost a RISC processor back in the day when everyone was trying to design fully orthogonal instruction sets
The Z80 was merely a re-tread of the rather pedestrian 8080
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
Well at least it makes a change from BROTH.
I just had an email from a US restaurant advertising their “immune boosting bone broth” for home delivery.
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
I get that you won’t listen to a random poster on the internet, but go and speak to ex-military you know (especially those who served in NI). It might prove necessary but it takes VERY careful consideration. And it can easily go wrong quickly.
HYUFD threatens the army at the Scots and now Londoners but he has no thought as to the likely outcome. Antagonising people more than is necessary is not the way forward
Well at least it makes a change from BROTH.
One of our products is broth, sales have gone through the roof. Do I owe HYFUD a commission?
Does anyone know what "London Lockdown" is likely to really mean. Is it likely for instance to prohibit drivers from entering and/or leaving the Capital? ... That really would be draconian and ultra-depressing.
Such things do ultimately require consent. 100,000 met coppers can’t control 7m Londoners otherwise. I’m guessing compulsory closure of pubs etc, and maybe control of main stations? Basically reduce the reasons to leave the house and make it an arse to leave London.
With the army in support of course they can, in France and Belgium police now checking valid reasons for being outside eg exercise, to buy food and with permits required for key workers
Be extremely careful when considering putting the army on the streets in those circumstances. Their training is completely different from that of the police*. I hope we can all agree they would not have firearms, but it’s still putting an infantryman in an impossible position. Also it’s a numbers game - it can LOOK like the police and army are controlling the streets. But it only works with public consent (assuming no one is arguing we arm them and start shooting).
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
We are facing the biggest national emergency since the second world war, if the army have to support the police to maintain order and lockdown if required then so be it.
The police should be left yo do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a lsst resort must be added too
yes everyone should stay at home and starve while waiting for eviction after the crisis like good little boys and girls
Your policies are going to throw so many on the dole your systems are going to fail and they will be left with no money. For the first time ever since I left college I know more unemployed people than I do employed. I dont think you realise the scale of what is going on. Ok only anecdote but if 6 of my 10 friends have been laid off this week and that is repeated amongst paye.....you have huge problems
Hence why Universal Credit is being easier to get immediately without having to go into the JobCentre or wait for it.
ah yes the joy of universal credit where suddenly your home is too big or costs more than the number for your area.....have you ever applied for it? I unfortunately have had due to my age two periods of unemployement in the last 10 years
first one I got sanctioned for not looking for work just after they signed off my four interview claim forms for expenses for the last week because apparently I didn't use the right app for job searching
Then 2 years ago when I applied then got a letter stating that I have been declined because I didnt turn up for the initial interview which apparently they tried to text me the date of but the text didnt go so they gave up. I checked the phone number they had the correct one.
That dwp system yes?
You might also add for @Philip_Thompson's education that you don't get UC immediately, you get it 5 weeks after applying.
Comments
There isn’t much point in special measures for London if every Londoner runs for Euston and Waterloo the minute it’s announced, Italian style.
The WHO aren't going to pick a fight with them over minor fiddling of figures (which in a country the size of China is nearly impossible to confirm) when really they are trying to convince the world to follow somewhere between this and South Korea approach.
Also, my point was more about the total cases / deaths. Western government models are all result in far worse outcomes and this is coming from a point of already knowing about this and trying to suppress it. China let this thing run wild for 3 months.
Finally, the original model the UK government used was based solely on Chinese data, when they got the Italian data, they immediately doubled the hospitalization rate.
*Thats why they only fill in for static guarding roles for the police usually, to free up the Met.
The police should be left to do it initially but if some still will not comply the army as a last resort must be added too
Restrictions are not being removed all at once, and presumably they are going to have massively more testing than previously.
So, will it be doubling every 3 days, every 5 days, 10 days or 20 days?
If they are able to slow the transmission rate so that doubling happens (say) every 20 days, then the it makes an enormous difference to how manageable this is.
Assume, for example, that the underlying (real) new daily infections number is 20. If doubling is every three days, then three months later China will be seeing 20 * 2^30 cases a day (I think). Or rather, the whole population will have it.
On the other hand, if it's every 20 days, then it's 20 * 2^4.5. Which is a massively smaller number - 450 cases a day.
Hmm. Nothing, anywhere.
Obviously I am late on this one.
Still, I did take delivery of a couple of dozen bottles of wine this morning.
Despite all the talk of closing the temporary isolation units, they are also still building capacity and appear convinced it will come back.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/london-coronavirus-government-plan-travel-social-distancing-a4391091.html
I think the bigger issue, simply, is that when times get tough, investors repatriate funds, and that will tend to send the US Dollar, the Euro and the Swiss Franc higher. Nothing more sinister than that.
If you want to go for one-line-program silliness I would suggest you take a course in Perl which is unmatched at such things
I did in C, but messed up the garbage collection, and now it's taking 12gb of system memory.
You called yourself a libertarian earlier, if we had a libertarian government there would be no business bailouts, no statutory sick pay, no non contributory unemployment benefit, no healthcare beyond that paid for by private insurance and no state enforced suspension of evictions and people would literally starve if they could not get to a food bank with enough stock
Nobody else there though was working, everyone else there (whom I steered clear of) were clearly just socialising.
Cameron (or Osborne) up for election in less than 6 weeks.
Think about that - New York state, population c. 20m, has more cases than the UK.
Edit: Though my first love was Z80 assembler :-)
That article will be repeated by millions of others. It isn't that hard. The Nuffield Trust and the Health Foundation publish studies each year looking at the need of the population and what is required.
Due to an ageing society with increasing multimorbidity, the growth in need has gone up by more than the growth in expenditure. Therefore the service gets run down. Match growth in need to growth in expenditure and the service will keep up. Increase expenditure versus need and it will get better.
If you do that for long enough then you are talking a serious dent in % GDP. So you then need to talk about your priorities as a society. Most of the time that means spending more on the NHS to the public. Fine, do it then but increases taxes too. I say that as a Conservative voter.
The end.
No. 6502 all the way!!!!!!
35% top rate income tax, but you're on your own after 70. Or 40% and we'll look after you for life.
Lots of people will choose to save, which will dramatically lower the burden on the NHS.
HYUFD would make IDS blush.
He was Head of our Dept at Queens.
BTW - How is your dad? Holding up OK?
Fight!
I think we (UK) are especially vulnerable outside a mainstream currency....but this is about picking up the crumbs.....
And, quite possibly, the likes of Cummings and Johnson are sitting around tables, drinking a glass of red wine, and listening to the likes of me telling them that...
There are believed to be over 55 thousand infected in the UK overall.
Though the total number in New York is also likely to be way higher.
first one I got sanctioned for not looking for work just after they signed off my four interview claim forms for expenses for the last week because apparently I didn't use the right app for job searching
Then 2 years ago when I applied then got a letter stating that I have been declined because I didnt turn up for the initial interview which apparently they tried to text me the date of but the text didnt go so they gave up. I checked the phone number they had the correct one.
That dwp system yes?
Since NY began testing they have ran at over 70% of tests being positive.
They've really only found the tip of the iceberg when it comes to cases.
Yesterday's data
The Z80 was merely a re-tread of the rather pedestrian 8080
The US pay for their tests...we've been testing front line health workers and the worried well......
That said New York is going to be miserable....and London not great
Dad's stable and in good hands. Only patient on his ward... 3 nurses looking after him. My Mum says no wonder his blood pressure has gone up...