politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Compulsory house arrest for the 70+group risks causing seconda

First!

CarlottaVance said:

First!

Into lockdown ?

eadric said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JohnLilburne said:

another_richard said:

Scott_xP said:

Jonathan said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/rogermosey/status/1239143671431299073

Do we want them to do the work or prepare for press conferences?

That's the point. They need to do both.

The greatest strategy in the World is going to fail if they don't bring the public with them, and right now they are fucking that up.

Your evidence for that is ?

Let me guess ...

... a tweet.

Everyone is now clamouring for stronger measures. A few days ago the response would have been "fuck that, it's just like getting a cold". They're playing games with our heads. Personally I'd like a last parkrun on Saturday before the ban hammer comes down.

Before the lockdown I am doing two things whilst I still can
1. Eat, drink and be merry
2. Running 5k a day in the gym to start the day

If you are big into working out, probably worth ordering some kit you can continue to do things at home. Kettlebell is very good.

Yes, I need that advice! thankyou. I really miss the gym, it kept me sane and healthy

Anything else I could order in?

I would have a look round YouTube, there are loads of home / garden workouts. See which you think you can do and order whatever kit they use, but normally its not much more than couple of dumb-bells, a mat and a kettle-bell.

You can really have a hard HIIT style workout with just body-weight exercises. I like the kettlebell you can then combine the HIIT body-weight stuff with some explosive weight-lifting motions.

eadric said:

Thanks for the advice FPT on gym replacement kit for the home...

For anyone with time on their hands (i.e. all of us), this is well worth a watch:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09qjl7d/the-truth-about-15-getting-fit

eadric said:

Thanks for the advice FPT on gym replacement kit for the home...

An innovative fitness solution:

https://twitter.com/gautamtrivedi_/status/1239180501665099776?s=21

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If the peak is going to be May-June, then the likely 0ver-70s home stay would probably be April-July if its 4 months - so they should be careful they don't get stampeded into going too early with over 70s coming out again at the time of peak infection.

My mother in law was here today. She is in her early 80s and has enough underlying health problems to be obviously vulnerable. She had been at her church which she loves but recognises that may be the last time for quite some time.

We will do shopping for her and she will no doubt continue to speak to her grandchildren by phone every day but it is going to be a very lonely life. Her much missed husband died a few years ago of Alzheimer's. The love and care she gave him was remarkable but she could not possibly have coped without teams of carers who came to lift him out of his bed in the morning and then hoisted him back in at night. As Mike says there are many, many people like this and I really do not know how they can possibly be isolated. Those who do this work going from one vulnerable person to the next are an obvious hazard.

The only solution I can think of is that many of those who are being helped to be at home will need to be in a centralised location with dedicated staff who remain on site, effectively a sealed community. I have few ideas about where we are going to find such facilities but empty hotels may be a possibility.

justin124 said:

Who would enforce such a measure? Are shops going to refuse to admit people who appear to be 70 plus? Many 70 year olds carry their years very lightly and would be mistaken for 60 year olds.The opposite is also sometimes true..Only when people approach 80 can we be entirely confident that they have reached 70.

You would hope that over 70s would get the message that this is life threatening if you get it so they won't be venturing out.

Its like asking who enforced everybody getting in a bomb shelter in WWII....

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

Don't blame me. Upthread I have been quite complimentary to Boris, explaining if Corbyn had been in charge we would all be under house arrest by now.

Mexicanpete said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

Don't blame me. Upthread I have been quite complimentary to Boris, explaining if Corbyn had been in charge we would all be under house arrest by now.

I wasn't. I am more infuriated by sections of the media pumping out and amplifying misleading information.

Social distancing should include social media.

OT: self-isolation for any age group is going to be a horrific scenario for people experiencing domestic abuse.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

If the apostrophe police didn’t catch you first.

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

Who would enforce such a measure? Are shops going to refuse to admit people who appear to be 70 plus? Many 70 year olds carry their years very lightly and would be mistaken for 60 year olds.The opposite is also sometimes true..Only when people approach 80 can we be entirely confident that they have reached 70.

You would hope that over 70s would get the message that this is life threatening if you get it so they won't be venturing out.

Its like asking who enforced everybody getting in a bomb shelter in WWII....

Fair enough - though not everybody went to the bomb shelters . The real point is that to a very large extent such a system would have to rely on voluntary compliance.

Correct. We thankfully aren't China and people won't be welded into their own homes. I am hoping that 99% of oldies stick to it (and that the government puts in place systems to ensure they are ok).

If people are willing to take that risk, well that's on them. But they are not only putting themselves in danger, they are endangering all of us, because the more strain on the system, the more who will die.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

Don't blame me. Upthread I have been quite complimentary to Boris, explaining if Corbyn had been in charge we would all be under house arrest by now.

I wasn't. I am more infuriated by sections of the media pumping out and amplifying misleading information.

I also think that 24 hour network news has a role in ramping up the fear factor. If on the 7 am bulletin some moronic reporter looking for an angle can say a supermarket has already reported selling a fourpack of toilet rolls and they are not expecting a delivery ffor 48 hours, the shelves will be empty by 1pm giving rise to an even bigger story.

If you live with a 70 year old are you going to have to go into quarantine as well?

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

Which would be a good reason for removing them to be replaced by a figure enjoying much greater public confidence - similar to Chamberlain making way for Churchill in May 1940.

I can't think of anyone who could take on that role from the current Tory party. My understanding is Hunt is not well liked by the medical fraternity who need to be on board.

Maybe from recent history, Cameron quickly elevated to the Lords?

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

Don't blame me. Upthread I have been quite complimentary to Boris, explaining if Corbyn had been in charge we would all be under house arrest by now.

I wasn't. I am more infuriated by sections of the media pumping out and amplifying misleading information.

I also think that 24 hour network news has a role in ramping up the fear factor. If on the 7 am bulletin some moronic reporter looking for an angle can say a supermarket has already reported selling a fourpack of toilet rolls and they are not expecting a delivery ffor 48 hours, the shelves will be empty by 1pm giving rise to an even bigger story.

Rather than looking for outrage "clicks, they could and should be educating the public and in doing so saving lives.

Absolutely.

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

Who would enforce such a measure? Are shops going to refuse to admit people who appear to be 70 plus? Many 70 year olds carry their years very lightly and would be mistaken for 60 year olds.The opposite is also sometimes true..Only when people approach 80 can we be entirely confident that they have reached 70.

You would hope that over 70s would get the message that this is life threatening if you get it so they won't be venturing out.

Its like asking who enforced everybody getting in a bomb shelter in WWII....

Fair enough - though not everybody went to the bomb shelters . The real point is that to a very large extent such a system would have to rely on voluntary compliance.

Quite. It will be voluntary, not compulsory.

The theory is good. You relieve the NHS of the vast majority of the additional virus demands on it, while protecting the health of the most vulnerable.  And you have minimal economic impact.  And when most of the younger population have had the disease, and the oldies are released, the epidemic probably won't take off again.

The practice will be patchy but if only 75% of oldies follow it, it will have a beneficial effect. The 25% who don't follow the advice will generally be fit and healthy (or have dogs).

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

Which would be a good reason for removing them to be replaced by a figure enjoying much greater public confidence - similar to Chamberlain making way for Churchill in May 1940.

I can't think of anyone who could take on that role from the current Tory party. My understanding is Hunt is not well liked by the medical fraternity who need to be on board.

Maybe from recent history, Cameron quickly elevated to the Lords?

Cameron isn't exactly known for wanting to work too hard.

Lazy maybe, to non-Tories like me he still retains a certain gravitas nonetheless, Brexit notwithstanding.

That new upthread that Germany is closing its borders is now in the Guardian.

Is there anything wrong with people over 70 getting in a car, driving around (with the windows closed) for a short time to have a change of scenery, and then returning to their home?

CarlottaVance said:

Really?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1239198573016817665?s=20

They have tons of test kits, now, but very limited lab capacity to process them.

https://twitter.com/mmurraypolitics/status/1239174708081328129

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

Who would enforce such a measure? Are shops going to refuse to admit people who appear to be 70 plus? Many 70 year olds carry their years very lightly and would be mistaken for 60 year olds.The opposite is also sometimes true..Only when people approach 80 can we be entirely confident that they have reached 70.

You would hope that over 70s would get the message that this is life threatening if you get it so they won't be venturing out.

Its like asking who enforced everybody getting in a bomb shelter in WWII....

Fair enough - though not everybody went to the bomb shelters . The real point is that to a very large extent such a system would have to rely on voluntary compliance.

Correct. We thankfully aren't China and people won't be welded into their own homes. I am hoping that 99% of oldies stick to it (and that the government puts in place systems to ensure they are ok).

If people are willing to take that risk, well that's on them. But they are not only putting themselves in danger, they are endangering all of us, because the more strain on the system, the more who will die.

My concern is that there's a fairly lengthy list of older people who may find complete quarantine impossible to stick to:

* Anyone who can't order online shopping (because the system is totally overloaded, or they're computer illiterate) and doesn't have local friends or family willing and able to fetch and carry for them. Unless the Government has a comprehensive system for bailing them out then it'll be impossible for them to avoid going out
* Dog owners: the temptation for them to take Rover walkies is going to be immense. If they're flat-dwellers who keep a little terrier about the place then they're virtually certain to do it. The obvious solution in that case is for the police or army to confiscate the dogs and shoot them, but this would be sub-optimal in PR terms
* Those with spouses or even more ancient parents in care homes, who won't be able to bear not going to visit them for months

There'll also be a significant number of families with pre-school children where working parents are totally reliant on Granny as a babysitter and can't afford to do without her. The pressure on them to violate self-isolation will be enormous, and the problem will get an order of magnitude greater if schools and nurseries close, which is one of the major reasons why the Government appears determined to avoid that for as long as possible.

One can only hope that the boffins have allowed for this sort of behaviour in their modelling, or else the rate of disease transmission may be much higher than the authorities are banking on.

Black_Rook said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

Who would enforce such a measure? Are shops going to refuse to admit people who appear to be 70 plus? Many 70 year olds carry their years very lightly and would be mistaken for 60 year olds.The opposite is also sometimes true..Only when people approach 80 can we be entirely confident that they have reached 70.

You would hope that over 70s would get the message that this is life threatening if you get it so they won't be venturing out.

Its like asking who enforced everybody getting in a bomb shelter in WWII....

Fair enough - though not everybody went to the bomb shelters . The real point is that to a very large extent such a system would have to rely on voluntary compliance.

Correct. We thankfully aren't China and people won't be welded into their own homes. I am hoping that 99% of oldies stick to it (and that the government puts in place systems to ensure they are ok).

If people are willing to take that risk, well that's on them. But they are not only putting themselves in danger, they are endangering all of us, because the more strain on the system, the more who will die.

My concern is that there's a fairly lengthy list of older people who may find complete quarantine impossible to stick to:

* Anyone who can't order online shopping (because the system is totally overloaded, or they're computer illiterate) and doesn't have local friends or family willing and able to fetch and carry for them. Unless the Government has a comprehensive system for bailing them out then it'll be impossible for them to avoid going out
* Dog owners: the temptation for them to take Rover walkies is going to be immense. If they're flat-dwellers who keep a little terrier about the place then they're virtually certain to do it. The obvious solution in that case is for the police or army to confiscate the dogs and shoot them, but this would run be sub-optimal in PR terms
* Those with spouses or even more ancient parents in care homes, who won't be able to bear not going to visit them for months

There'll also be a significant number of families with pre-school children where working parents are totally reliant on Granny as a babysitter and can't afford to do without her. The pressure on them to violate self-isolation will be enormous, and the problem will get an order of magnitude greater if schools and nurseries close, which is one of the major reasons why the Government appears determined to avoid that for as long as possible.

One can only hope that the boffins have allowed for this sort of behaviour in their modelling, or else the rate of disease transmission may be much higher than the authorities are banking on.

I think they are all valid concerns.

Things like food, I really hope that the government will contact all oldies and ask can you cope and if not we will organize it for you.

Just 31 new cases in Japan today after a spike yesterday, puts the average back on the steady 50 per day track. However anecdotally the testing sounds extremely shitty, people with all the symptoms getting denied tests...

There has been some discussion attributed to the government of bring back recently retired doctors and nurses to help with treating patients in the epidemic. However some of these could be over 70. Also some MPs are over the age of 70 including the current Father of the House. I wonder if there could be some exemptions to the quarantine for those who are working?

This is very good, very balanced and clear explanation. Actually having some bloke on who knows what they are talking about rather than reading out a letter signed by MSc maths student and lab techs...

Sir Mark Walport, the UK government's former chief scientific adviser, explains the government’s response to COVID-19 and says ‘herd immunity’ is not the aim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvOwF48z4s

Over 50s number is shocking:

https://twitter.com/pbump/status/1238908474219782145

nichomar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

Is there anything wrong with people over 70 getting in a car, driving around (with the windows closed) for a short time to have a change of scenery, and then returning to their home?

I think one concern I would have is anybody who has come and rung your doorbell, touched the door handle, coughed on your car. So you pop out and end up touching all those things.

Also, I think you have to break habits. If you are used to popping out in the car and you usually pop into the shop, it is very hard to not instinctively do that.

You just have to have dedicated pensioner only hours in the supermarket. Ensure hand gel and disposable plastic gloves available. They could also bring out reserved stocks of bog rolls, masks and hand sanitizer. As an aside Spain has allowed hairdressers and dry cleaners to stay open as the are essential to some people, particularly older females who have their hair done once a week.

I am not sure getting my hair done is top of the list of my priorities at the moment.

rkrkrk said:

I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.

Black_Rook said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

Who would enforce such a measure? Are shops going to refuse to admit people who appear to be 70 plus? Many 70 year olds carry their years very lightly and would be mistaken for 60 year olds.The opposite is also sometimes true..Only when people approach 80 can we be entirely confident that they have reached 70.

You would hope that over 70s would get the message that this is life threatening if you get it so they won't be venturing out.

Its like asking who enforced everybody getting in a bomb shelter in WWII....

Fair enough - though not everybody went to the bomb shelters . The real point is that to a very large extent such a system would have to rely on voluntary compliance.

Correct. We thankfully aren't China and people won't be welded into their own homes. I am hoping that 99% of oldies stick to it (and that the government puts in place systems to ensure they are ok).

If people are willing to take that risk, well that's on them. But they are not only putting themselves in danger, they are endangering all of us, because the more strain on the system, the more who will die.

My concern is that there's a fairly lengthy list of older people who may find complete quarantine impossible to stick to:

* Anyone who can't order online shopping (because the system is totally overloaded, or they're computer illiterate) and doesn't have local friends or family willing and able to fetch and carry for them. Unless the Government has a comprehensive system for bailing them out then it'll be impossible for them to avoid going out
* Dog owners: the temptation for them to take Rover walkies is going to be immense. If they're flat-dwellers who keep a little terrier about the place then they're virtually certain to do it. The obvious solution in that case is for the police or army to confiscate the dogs and shoot them, but this would be sub-optimal in PR terms
* Those with spouses or even more ancient parents in care homes, who won't be able to bear not going to visit them for months

There'll also be a significant number of families with pre-school children where working parents are totally reliant on Granny as a babysitter and can't afford to do without her. The pressure on them to violate self-isolation will be enormous, and the problem will get an order of magnitude greater if schools and nurseries close, which is one of the major reasons why the Government appears determined to avoid that for as long as possible.

One can only hope that the boffins have allowed for this sort of behaviour in their modelling, or else the rate of disease transmission may be much higher than the authorities are banking on.

fox327 said:

There has been some discussion attributed to the government of bring back recently retired doctors and nurses to help with treating patients in the epidemic. However some of these could be over 70. Also some MPs are over the age of 70 including the current Father of the House. I wonder if there could be some exemptions to the quarantine for those who are working?

Does anyone living with elderly relatives have to go into quarantine with them? And how do people get food?

ClippP said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mexicanpete said:

Henrietta00 said:

FPT

Mexicanpete said:

My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?
I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.

If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.

You cannot expect people to support a project, and those who front it, if they do not believe in them.

The Conservative leaders threw away any claim to authority and leadership when they resorted to lies, manipulation and general skulduggery to make a power grab.

Churchill was, I think, essentially honest, though perhaps sometimes mistaken.

Boris has nothing to do with "the project". It is the CMO / CSO who have crafted this plan and those in the media and blue check marks on twitter pushing misinformation well know this.

Black_Rook said:

rkrkrk said:

I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.

It will kill some people. Literally.

What happens to smokers?

FrancisUrquhart said:

nichomar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

Is there anything wrong with people over 70 getting in a car, driving around (with the windows closed) for a short time to have a change of scenery, and then returning to their home?

I think one concern I would have is anybody who has come and rung your doorbell, touched the door handle, coughed on your car. So you pop out and end up touching all those things.

Also, I think you have to break habits. If you are used to popping out in the car and you usually pop into the shop, it is very hard to not instinctively do that.

You just have to have dedicated pensioner only hours in the supermarket. Ensure hand gel and disposable plastic gloves available. They could also bring out reserved stocks of bog rolls, masks and hand sanitizer. As an aside Spain has allowed hairdressers and dry cleaners to stay open as the are essential to some people, particularly older females who have their hair done once a week.

I am not sure getting my hair done is top of the list of my priorities at the moment.

It wouldn’t be mine as I don’t have much and it all might drop out soon anyway but the 75+ ladies do seem to go religiously each week.

kinabalu said:

This seniors quarantine will be advisory only, I presume.

No I don't think it will be. They can't enforce it 100%, but if you tell somebody it is advisory, people always find small reasons to break it and consider themselves much fitter and healthier than most 70 year olds and thus don't apply to them.

See the Italian 2 day attempt at "self-certifying" reasons to travel around.

nichomar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

nichomar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

Is there anything wrong with people over 70 getting in a car, driving around (with the windows closed) for a short time to have a change of scenery, and then returning to their home?

I think one concern I would have is anybody who has come and rung your doorbell, touched the door handle, coughed on your car. So you pop out and end up touching all those things.

Also, I think you have to break habits. If you are used to popping out in the car and you usually pop into the shop, it is very hard to not instinctively do that.

You just have to have dedicated pensioner only hours in the supermarket. Ensure hand gel and disposable plastic gloves available. They could also bring out reserved stocks of bog rolls, masks and hand sanitizer. As an aside Spain has allowed hairdressers and dry cleaners to stay open as the are essential to some people, particularly older females who have their hair done once a week.

I am not sure getting my hair done is top of the list of my priorities at the moment.

It wouldn’t be mine as I don’t have much and it all might drop out soon anyway but the 75+ ladies do seem to go religiously each week.

I am not over 70, but I won't be getting my hair cut for the next 6 months....think I will go for the Tom Hanks look in Cast Away.

nichomar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

nichomar said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

Is there anything wrong with people over 70 getting in a car, driving around (with the windows closed) for a short time to have a change of scenery, and then returning to their home?

I think one concern I would have is anybody who has come and rung your doorbell, touched the door handle, coughed on your car. So you pop out and end up touching all those things.

Also, I think you have to break habits. If you are used to popping out in the car and you usually pop into the shop, it is very hard to not instinctively do that.

You just have to have dedicated pensioner only hours in the supermarket. Ensure hand gel and disposable plastic gloves available. They could also bring out reserved stocks of bog rolls, masks and hand sanitizer. As an aside Spain has allowed hairdressers and dry cleaners to stay open as the are essential to some people, particularly older females who have their hair done once a week.

I am not sure getting my hair done is top of the list of my priorities at the moment.

It wouldn’t be mine as I don’t have much and it all might drop out soon anyway but the 75+ ladies do seem to go religiously each week.

Part cosmetic and part social interaction and feel good factor.

It is a very good activity to point out how hard self isolation could be as removing the activity generates far more hardship than just not having your hair done.

"'Panic and fear are as contagious as this virus. And they'll kill even more people': A powerful plea from KAROL SIKORA, one of Britain's most distinguished doctors"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8113349/KAROL-SIKORA-Panic-fear-contagious-virus-theyll-kill-people.html

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

Is there anything wrong with people over 70 getting in a car, driving around (with the windows closed) for a short time to have a change of scenery, and then returning to their home?

I think one concern I would have is anybody who has come and rung your doorbell, touched the door handle, coughed on your car. So you pop out and end up touching all those things.

Also, I think you have to break habits. If you are used to popping out in the car and you usually pop into the shop, it is very hard to not instinctively do that.

I'm already in lock down. The only thing that can get into my apartment is the post. I leave it for 48 hours before touching it.

On the other hand, if I'm going to catch it, it would be better to catch it now while the hospitals can cope. Then when I recover I can go out.

kinabalu said:

This seniors quarantine will be advisory only, I presume.

Yes, I should think so. Surely parliament would not pass a law making it illegal for them to leave their homes?

Austria bans gatherings of more than just FIVE people !!!

Gallowgate said:

https://twitter.com/anshelpfeffer/status/1239202296715755521?s=21

That's excellent news!

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/mmurraypolitics/status/1239174708081328129

If 60% of GOP think we are past the worst of this markets could have a long when to fall still when they realise what has happened and is going to happen.

Black_Rook said:

rkrkrk said:

I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.

On my morning dog walk I have already noticed that most of the elderly dog owners seem to have disappeared.

alex_ said:

What is the scientific basis for saying people can't go for walks?

You will come into contact with people, you will cough on the pavement, gates, cars etc.

You might say but I live 10 miles from the nearest person and will never come into contact with anybody, but the problem is as soon as you start coming up with caveats people always decide they are exempt e.g People will say, well, I live in a village, there are only 50 people, so I probably won't come into contact with anybody....hi Fred, not seen you for ages, cough cough...

It is why the initial advice in Italy over stand 1m away is nonsense.

Urgent efforts to repatriate 30,000 British tourists from ski resorts in France are under way amid warnings of “widespread failures” in the travel sector in the face of the coronavirus pandemic.

French mountain resorts closed at midnight on Saturday, hours after tens of thousands of skiers had landed for their annual holiday in the snow.

Leading ski and summer activity holiday company Neilson has called for the government to step in with “emergency measures”.

There were reports of chaos and confusion across the Alps with one source saying local police had taken the French government’s message into their own hands and were going round hotels and restaurants telling marooned Britons to go home immediately.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/coronavirus-chaos-as-30000-british-tourists-told-to-leave-french-ski-resorts