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  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Excellent tweet from JM
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    And btw, BUPA care homes are not yet closed to family visitors.
    At least not the one I went to this afternoon.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Spanish police use megaphones to warn people to stay indoors or face arrest and £25 000 fines or jail

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8114189/Spanish-police-use-megaphones-tell-people-stay-indoors-face-25-000-fines.html

    That'll be you if you wander out onto that lawn.
    Not if it is your lawn and others who use it are trespassing
    I thought it was a communal lawn?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    alex_ said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    I reckon BA will be nationalised.
    There's a good chance I would have thought. Question is whether BA or IAG.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    I reckon BA will be nationalised.
    And quite possibly the rest of the rail franchises.
    Back to pre Thatcher privatisations then and more of Corbyn's manifesto of nationalisations comes in by the back door
    The Tories have already implemented Michael Foot's policy on the EU. They may now get a chance to implement the rest of his manifesto.

    We will establish a significant public stake in electronics, pharmaceuticals, health equipment and building materials; and also in other important sectors, as required in the national interest.

    http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml
    Well... I guess that unilateral nuclear disarmament would save a decent slice of our remaining resources.
  • HYUFD said:

    Spanish police use megaphones to warn people to stay indoors or face arrest and £25 000 fines or jail

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8114189/Spanish-police-use-megaphones-tell-people-stay-indoors-face-25-000-fines.html

    That'll be you if you wander out onto that lawn.
    That made me giggle
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 660
    alex_ said:

    JM1 said:

    alex_ said:

    tyson said:

    The death rate suggests we are about 10 days behind Italy....Italy closed shop a week last Saturday......so Wednesday or Thursday next week will be our point

    How long ago was it that we were reading horrific stories out of Northern Italy about the hospitals overloaded, young and old alike presenting unable to cope any further etc etc. Was it really only about a week ago? The reporting out of UK hospitals hasn't been anything like on the same level (yet). In fact, unless I've missed it, we've been hearing hardly anything about conditions in hospitals (other than a few people nicking handgel)

    The Govt experts are saying they expect the peak in six weeks time. And they are hoping the peak will be containable within NHS capacity. That doesn't compute with everything collapsing in a few days.

    Which suggests we are in a far better position than raw numbers suggest?
    I suspect Italy had a far larger number of undiagnosed cases than we have. After 40000 tests, Italy had 7000 cases, whilst we have a much smaller number (which will of course rise rapidly). We clearly have many undiagnosed cases (many, based on what was reported from Iceland may be completely asymptomatic) but it might be that we can control the epidemic a little better in terms of timing than Italy / Spain. Let's certainly hope so...
    Well yes - but it means looking to Italy/Spain to indicate when things might really start getting restrictive in this country may not be very reliable.

    There was clearly a problem in Italy as we saw with the number of imported cases this is also the case with USA.

    The UK death rate is rising as we are now starting to test some of the sick patients in our hospitals who previously we had ignored. The virus is being transmitted within our hospitals. Numbers not terrible today. We are testing a lot more people and not finding the numbers they have in Europe. We can still bring this under control.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Had to muck out 4 horses today !
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Andy_JS said:

    It could be that the north/south cultural differences in such an easily transmissible disease are playing a major role so far.

    It certainly looks like that. I don't think it's "racist" to say so, (especially since we're talking about Europeans).
    Southern Europeans often seem to have no concept of personal space.
    That's one way of looking at it ; they regard northern europeans as frosty and detached.
    Yes, the Swedish reaction to the metre apart advice was ... why would we want to stand that close to anyone ?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    The Roaring 20's followed the most miserable period before.......

    In a couple of years time...life will have changed and most probably for the better...it's just the journey getting there
  • eristdoof said:

    Charles said:

    Twitter wilfully misunderstanding the facts.

    "Exclusive rights" to a technology does not mean "won't let anyone else have it"
    But it could. The insistance that German CureVac employees move to the USA to work there should be a big red flag, if the plan were for it to be an internaltional project.
    Once some of it becomes physically available, questions may arise like "who gets how much of it, at what point in time, and at what cost?".

    Our government might not be inclined to instinctively trust the Orange One who has been screeching " 'murica first" for the last couple of years.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The question I have about these numbers, is I think they should be a stock and flow model.

    +25 in intensive care actually means that 277 new patients moved into intensive care (on the assumption that all of the deaths exited intensive care).

    Are the "total in intensive care" also counted in "total hospitalised" or not?

    I assume they are counted in current infected, but the deceased are not.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze, flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure, and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    That`s the spirit!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze, flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure, and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    Sounds like you now back the government's approach then.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited March 2020

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    Total healed ? This seems a very important figure to me. The deaths are at a horribly high, but roughly static level, but the number of new intensive care cases seems to be coming down. Maybe the infrastructure and treatment is beginning to cope better.
    The cabinet member for welfare didn't report the healed figure for Lombardia.
    I can't edit it anymore. For deaths, hospitalized and IC it is the "current total in ". So the net increase compared to yesterday.
    So only +25 net increase compared to yesterday is probably also due to the high number of deaths freeing spots in IC

    Now daily conferences for national update on..
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The quote “We all die, just a question of when” just came to mind... can anyone name the film it’s from?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The lockdown doesn't seem to be being hugely effective? Or is it?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,557
    eadric said:

    Sky's Europe correspondent reporting from Lille has said that this evening Germany will close the border with France as well as Austria and Switzerland

    He said this is a seminal moment for Germany and France as their borders close

    And how easy will it be for it to be re-opened and when

    Freedom of Movement could be gone forever. Or for a very very long time, if this virus pans out as pessimists predict.

    The irony of this coming after the Brexit vote is quite intense.


    Could this be the time to ask for the sorts of membership terms that would have won Cameron then referendum if offered at the time?

    Or anyone for EFTA?

    Brexit at this moment is looking like a little local difficulty. Will Boris use this to say: This is not the moment for boat rocking, let's learn from this and reach a sensible compromise with our friends of Europe?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited March 2020
    Italy

    Currently infected: 20.603 (+2.853 net gain compared to yesterday)
    Including Intensive care: 1.672 (+154 net increase)
    Deaths: 1.809 (+368)
    Healed: 2.335 (+369)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up

    We all have to do our bit now....I'm not claiming cancellation fees on bookings...

    I'm paying our cleaner a 50% retainer for however long.....

    We need to support QE for businesses across the board.....
    Paying our cleaner her full whack still. She can't afford the drop. Don't know how she will survive if others cut her wages. Her aged mother has aggressive dementia, and she and her sister have to take in turns to look after her.

    Some people had shitty lives - and then virus this took another dump on them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    Fenster said:

    Some of the more fearful and fatalistic comments on here are, I think, way over the top. The virus is serious but why should Old King Cole be told to cancel all his weekly appointments? If he and his wife are well they should continue as normal.

    I was over the rugby club until 3am yesterday morning, there must've been 250 people over there. The Scots came down from Jed Thistle, the great Gary Armstrong was with them (he told us Doddie Weir, sadly, is not in great condition), two games of rugby were played, the Scots boys played the bagpipes and we all got very pissed, including all the old boys.

    I took my boy to Ramp World in Cardiff yesterday and it was as packed as ever, I went to Tescos this morning and apart from a pasta shortage it was fine... and I've just been over the local pub for Sunday dinner where it was as jam-packed as it always is. The wife and me will go to work and the kids will go to school in the morning, as usual.

    Most people don't live by the fear and hysteria-culture of Twitter or social media and just get the feck on with it. And will die with fewer regrets.

    I do not share your sentiments but good post - because it expresses well a point of view that is under-represented on here.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    alex_ said:

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The lockdown doesn't seem to be being hugely effective? Or is it?
    It doesn't seem clear yet. There were 200 new intensive care cases a day earlier in the week, though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    A person who I had coffee with last Thursday has been confirmed as having the virus. The latest advice seems to be that I don’t self isolate unless I develop symptoms. I don’t have any at the moment.

    I think the reality is that many of us are going to come into contact with carriers frequently. We either completely cut ourselves off or carry on until there are symptoms.

    It’s a bit troubling though.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    alex_ said:

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The lockdown doesn't seem to be being hugely effective? Or is it?
    It takes a fair amount of time for people to die once infected - so I guess we need to wait a bit longer yet.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Another depressing thought for everyone - how many local authorities are likely to be in big trouble over this? If for nothing else those that have taken on all those 'risky' property investments in recent years. The ones that own the airports? etc etc

    Or, to be morbid, will it be compensated by reduced demand for social care?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Charles said:

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The question I have about these numbers, is I think they should be a stock and flow model.

    +25 in intensive care actually means that 277 new patients moved into intensive care (on the assumption that all of the deaths exited intensive care).

    Are the "total in intensive care" also counted in "total hospitalised" or not?

    I assume they are counted in current infected, but the deceased are not.
    I think a fair few of the deaths would be outside ICU.

    757 in ICU with it is a fairly low number, probably less than 10% of Italian ICU capacity. I interpret this to mean that while ICU is getting overloaded in parts of Lombardia, much of the country is relatively unscathed. Hence containment ala Wuhan is still viable.
  • eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze, flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure, and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    Now I really like that post
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    isam said:

    The quote “We all die, just a question of when” just came to mind... can anyone name the film it’s from?

    Bambi?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze, flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure, and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    Yes. I'm glad you have got there.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    alex_ said:

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The lockdown doesn't seem to be being hugely effective? Or is it?
    How many of the cases noted above were infected before the lockdown started 6 days ago?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze, flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure, and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    The world population is up over 16m since January. Even on a worse case scenario this virus won’t even make a dent
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    DavidL said:

    A person who I had coffee with last Thursday has been confirmed as having the virus. The latest advice seems to be that I don’t self isolate unless I develop symptoms. I don’t have any at the moment.

    I think the reality is that many of us are going to come into contact with carriers frequently. We either completely cut ourselves off or carry on until there are symptoms.

    It’s a bit troubling though.

    According to the BBC you are covered by the previously issued advice:

    Anyone who has travelled to an affected area, or who has been in close contact with an infected person, had already been asked to self-isolate for 14 days.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    eadric said:

    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    The Roaring 20's followed the most miserable period before.......

    In a couple of years time...life will have changed and most probably for the better...it's just the journey getting there
    That's actually quite a good example. The Gatsby Era came a few years after the Spanish flu and the Somme.

    We're going to have a tough time, for quite a while, but it won't be forever.

    And now I must go do some work, because life DOES go on.
    We are booked into the hotel where Fitzgerald was inspired to write Tender is the Night for my missus’ 40th in June. Looks like a non runner now
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Spanish police use megaphones to warn people to stay indoors or face arrest and £25 000 fines or jail

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8114189/Spanish-police-use-megaphones-tell-people-stay-indoors-face-25-000-fines.html

    That'll be you if you wander out onto that lawn.
    Not if it is your lawn and others who use it are trespassing
    If you were in Trump's America you would be allowed to shoot them!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020

    Italy

    Currently infected: 20.603 (+2.853 net gain compared to yesterday)
    Deaths: 1.809 (+368 net increase)
    Healed: 2.335 (+369)
    Intensive care: 1.672 (+154 net increase)

    These figures are different. That looks like a more worrying rise in deaths and more static rises in intensive care cases, but also a rapidly increasing number of healed.


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    The quote “We all die, just a question of when” just came to mind... can anyone name the film it’s from?

    Bambi?
    If we were in a noisy bar I’d probably say ‘yeah!’
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    isam said:

    The quote “We all die, just a question of when” just came to mind... can anyone name the film it’s from?

    Braveheart?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    edited March 2020

    Sounds like Corbyn won the argument!

    Totally.

    And it's a great pity Labour are not in because this is going to be a golden (and perhaps never to be repeated) opportunity for the State - that's us - to buy up whole swathes of commercial assets from a distressed private sector at knockdown prices. Privatize the losses, socialize the gains.

    As it is, the Tories will no doubt go for a bail-out without taking ownership approach. Socialize the losses, privatize the gains.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up

    We all have to do our bit now....I'm not claiming cancellation fees on bookings...

    I'm paying our cleaner a 50% retainer for however long.....

    We need to support QE for businesses across the board.....
    Paying our cleaner her full whack still. She can't afford the drop. Don't know how she will survive if others cut her wages. Her aged mother has aggressive dementia, and she and her sister have to take in turns to look after her.

    Some people had shitty lives - and then virus this took another dump on them.
    I did try and offer mine the full amount for staying away....she completely refused...and she really reluctantly took 50% for staying away....I've only had her for four months
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    DavidL said:

    A person who I had coffee with last Thursday has been confirmed as having the virus. The latest advice seems to be that I don’t self isolate unless I develop symptoms. I don’t have any at the moment.

    I think the reality is that many of us are going to come into contact with carriers frequently. We either completely cut ourselves off or carry on until there are symptoms.

    It’s a bit troubling though.

    I posted something earlier suggesting that current NHS guidance is based on presumption that carriers do not pass on the virus until they become symptomatic. Which tallies with your interpretation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Italy

    Currently infected: 20.603 (+2.853 net gain compared to yesterday)
    Deaths: 1.809 (+368 net increase)
    Healed: 2.335 (+369)
    Intensive care: 1.672 (+154 net increase)

    These figures are different. That looks like a more worrying rise in deaths and more static intensive care cases, but also a rapidly increasing number of healed.

    The difference between Lombardia and other regions. Lombardia is 13 million people as I recall.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze, flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure, and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    Indeed. But that rather nice gastropub might not be there in 6 months time.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    Italy

    Currently infected: 20.603 (+2.853 net gain compared to yesterday)
    Deaths: 1.809 (+368 net increase)
    Healed: 2.335 (+369)
    Intensive care: 1.672 (+154 net increase)

    These figures are different. That looks like a more worrying rise in deaths and more static intensive care cases, but also a rapidly increasing number of healed.

    The difference between Lombardia and other regions. Lombardia is 13 million people as I recall.
    Yes, sorry I didn't see that Andrea put up different figures for Italy. So the figures for Lombardy itself are not as bad as they could be, once again.

  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 660

    alex_ said:

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The lockdown doesn't seem to be being hugely effective? Or is it?
    How many of the cases noted above were infected before the lockdown started 6 days ago?
    Wont know until the end of next week it is about 2 weeks for results to start
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    isam said:

    isam said:

    The quote “We all die, just a question of when” just came to mind... can anyone name the film it’s from?

    Bambi?
    If we were in a noisy bar I’d probably say ‘yeah!’
    Rambo
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Two Finnish men meet in a bar, they haven't seen each other in over 30 years, but used to be best friends. One raises his beer and says 'cheers'.

    The other responds, 'are we here to drink, or to talk?'


    I just posted that because anyone who knows someone from Finland.....
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Sounds like Corbyn won the argument!

    Totally.

    And it's a great pity Labour are not in because this is going to be a golden (and perhaps never to be repeated) opportunity for the State - that's us - to buy up whole swathes of commercial assets from a distressed private sector at knockdown prices. Privatize the losses, socialize the gains.

    As it is, the Tories will no doubt go for a bail-out without taking ownership approach. Socialize the losses, privatize the gains.
    Good post - though would you mind using s`s and laying off the z`s?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    edited March 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Sounds like Corbyn won the argument!

    Totally.

    And it's a great pity Labour are not in because this is going to be a golden (and perhaps never to be repeated) opportunity for the State - that's us - to buy up whole swathes of commercial assets from a distressed private sector at knockdown prices. Privatize the losses, socialize the gains.

    As it is, the Tories will no doubt go for a bail-out without taking ownership approach. Socialize the losses, privatize the gains.
    Government borrowing is going to go through the roof. What with all these privatisations, bailing the banks out, underwriting Lloyds names and buying Covid-19 pharmaceuticals from the Trump organisation.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    edited March 2020
    tyson said:

    Two Finnish men meet in a bar, they haven't seen each other in over 30 years, but used to be best friends. One raises his beer and says 'cheers'.

    The other responds, 'are we here to drink, or to talk?'


    I just posted that because anyone who knows someone from Finland.....

    I've seen the Italian figures....."Non parlo di piu di Corona...non leggo di piu...basta...."

    I want to lighten the mood
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    Uh, these figures for Italy are very different to Andrea's. Unfortunately

    Yes, as Foxy was saying these are the nationwide figures, rather than the Lombardy ones. On the one hand the Lombardy situation seems not to be changing too much, but where are the other cases ? That's the concerning bit for me.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    eadric said:

    Uh, these figures for Italy are very different to Andrea's. Unfortunately

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1239237647031242752?s=20

    These are gross figures. Others are net.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Italy

    Currently infected: 20.603 (+2.853 net gain compared to yesterday)
    Deaths: 1.809 (+368 net increase)
    Healed: 2.335 (+369)
    Intensive care: 1.672 (+154 net increase)

    These figures are different. That looks like a more worrying rise in deaths and more static intensive care cases, but also a rapidly increasing number of healed.

    The difference between Lombardia and other regions. Lombardia is 13 million people as I recall.
    Yes, sorry I didn't see that Andrea put up different figures for Italy. So the figures for Lombardy itself are not as bad as they could be, once again.
    Yes, I made the same mistake until Andea put up the second figure. 757 in ICU would still be a fraction of ICU beds in Lombardia though, perhaps 50% of baseline. Probably well over 100% in certain hotspots.

    I think the Italians seem to be making a fair go at containing it.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    SAS (Swedish BA) is laying off 90% of its staff

    Just saw that. 10,000 jobs gone, in a moment.

    10,000 families, losing a breadwinner...

    So sad.
    Will be the same for restaurant, cafe, pub, hotel, bar, nightclub, hairdressers, shop staff etc, unless only temporary until Covid 19 cleared up
    I had a Covid epiphany the other day. A positive one, for a change.

    I was having lunch with my daughter in a very nice gastropub, ruefully wondering when we'd be able to do this again, if ever....

    And then I realised, of course we will do this again, we are humans, it's what we do. Coronavirus is not going to kill us all. Even if it kills 5% of us (extreme worst case scenario) 95% will be OK.

    And even if they find no vaccine and even if antivirals don't work and even if corona comes back every winter to take out the oldies, we will adapt. It will just become the new normal, and we will eventually accept a much higher level of risk as we travel, eat, booze, flirt, and go about our business, because if we don't accept this, life will simply cease.

    We will endure, and some time in the future we will be happy again.
    Yes but unless you're religious, which I am not, then there is only one consciousness of yourself. So 'we' may endure as a species and, for some of us there may be comfort that our progeny will.

    But if I get this and die from it that's it. Snuffed out. The consciousness that is 'I', the knowledge and awareness of continuity will be extinguished.

    I've spent much of my life in dangerous places and I've used up about 99 lives, let alone 9.

    I just don't particularly want to go right now from a really nasty form of viral pneumonia.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Charles said:

    News from Lombardy

    Currently infected: 13.272 (+1582 compared to yesterday)
    Total deaths: 1218 (+252)
    Total hospitalized: 4898 (+602)
    Total in intensive care: 757 (+25)

    The question I have about these numbers, is I think they should be a stock and flow model.

    +25 in intensive care actually means that 277 new patients moved into intensive care (on the assumption that all of the deaths exited intensive care).

    Are the "total in intensive care" also counted in "total hospitalised" or not?

    I assume they are counted in current infected, but the deceased are not.
    I can't edit it now anymore

    But yes, it is the net increased compared to day before. So the number of newly infected and new IC patients is actually higher as the deaths are deducted.

    Those in IC are counted also in the total currently infected.

    These are the maps and charts by health authorities

    http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Compulsory house arrest for the over 70s, never thought I would see that in England.
    Will people have to carry ID to prove your age ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    edited March 2020

    Now I really like that post

    You LIKE a post that postulates the virus "coming back every winter to take out the oldies"?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    edited March 2020

    eadric said:

    Uh, these figures for Italy are very different to Andrea's. Unfortunately

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1239237647031242752?s=20

    These are gross figures. Others are net.

    Sadly, Andrea's figures were just for Lombardy....why is Lombardy a problem for us...possibly because of Bergamo and Ryanair....

    And your joke is in particularly bad taste
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    kinabalu said:

    Sounds like Corbyn won the argument!

    Totally.

    And it's a great pity Labour are not in because this is going to be a golden (and perhaps never to be repeated) opportunity for the State - that's us - to buy up whole swathes of commercial assets from a distressed private sector at knockdown prices. Privatize the losses, socialize the gains.

    As it is, the Tories will no doubt go for a bail-out without taking ownership approach. Socialize the losses, privatize the gains.
    "privatize the gains." but reprivatising at well under the market price.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    algarkirk said:

    Could this be the time to ask for the sorts of membership terms that would have won Cameron then referendum if offered at the time?

    Or anyone for EFTA?

    Brexit at this moment is looking like a little local difficulty. Will Boris use this to say: This is not the moment for boat rocking, let's learn from this and reach a sensible compromise with our friends of Europe?

    I've been in favour of us joining EFTA for a long time, but frankly it all seems so trivial now that an extension or even cancellation wouldn't bother me. It would be like arguing with the neighbour's about their Leylandii hedge when your own house is on fire.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    glw said:

    algarkirk said:

    Could this be the time to ask for the sorts of membership terms that would have won Cameron then referendum if offered at the time?

    Or anyone for EFTA?

    Brexit at this moment is looking like a little local difficulty. Will Boris use this to say: This is not the moment for boat rocking, let's learn from this and reach a sensible compromise with our friends of Europe?

    I've been in favour of us joining EFTA for a long time, but frankly it all seems so trivial now that an extension or even cancellation wouldn't bother me. It would be like arguing with the neighbour's about their Leylandii hedge when your own house is on fire.
    ... and theirs is too! :disappointed:
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Scott_xP said:
    Because they are busy doing the job?
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    Fenster said:

    tyson said:

    Fenster said:

    eadric said:

    Fenster said:

    Some of the more fearful and fatalistic comments on here are, I think, way over the top. The virus is serious but why should Old King Cole be told to cancel all his weekly appointments? If he and his wife are well they should continue as normal.

    I was over the rugby club until 3am yesterday morning, there must've been 250 people over there. The Scots came down from Jed Thistle, the great Gary Armstrong was with them (he told us Doddie Weir, sadly, is not in great condition), two games of rugby were played, the Scots boys played the bagpipes and we all got very pissed, including all the old boys.

    I took my boy to Ramp World in Cardiff yesterday and it was as packed as ever, I went to Tescos this morning and apart from a pasta shortage it was fine... and I've just been over the local pub for Sunday dinner where it was as jam-packed as it always is. The wife and me will go to work and the kids will go to school in the morning, as usual.

    Most people don't live by the fear and hysteria-culture of Twitter or social media and just get the feck on with it. And will die with fewer regrets.

    This is how EXACTLY people initially reacted in Italy. with a shrug and a MEH and off they toddled to the café for an espresso with their friends.

    Then the deaths came, and the horror stories, and the young people getting ill, and the crematoria working 24/7 to burn the bodies.

    Now the Italians do NOT behave like you.
    I would suggest that it is you who is in a very small minority, not me.

    I might be wrong and I might die but I'm not going to worry myself stupid until it happens, just like all the other people going about their daily business aren't.
    All my Italian friends and family have contacted us to stay at home.....Why do you think they have done that?
    My kids are going to school in the morning with 750 other kids. I'll go to work tomorrow and come into contact with 100 people. What's the point of me staying at home when I'll likely catch it through the kids anyway.
    And that's the way the government kickstart their 'herd immunity' (sorry, 'flattening the curve') project.
  • kinabalu said:

    Now I really like that post

    You LIKE a post that postulates the virus "coming back every winter to take out the oldies"?
    Nonsense post
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    tlg86 said:
    We need something like we had during the Falklands War from Ian McDonald - simple, clear, unvarnished facts, every day.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Are the Italian case numbers the actual case numbers or just the cases requiring hospitalisation ?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    ukpaul said:

    Fenster said:

    tyson said:

    Fenster said:

    eadric said:

    Fenster said:

    Some of the more fearful and fatalistic comments on here are, I think, way over the top. The virus is serious but why should Old King Cole be told to cancel all his weekly appointments? If he and his wife are well they should continue as normal.

    I was over the rugby club until 3am yesterday morning, there must've been 250 people over there. The Scots came down from Jed Thistle, the great Gary Armstrong was with them (he told us Doddie Weir, sadly, is not in great condition), two games of rugby were played, the Scots boys played the bagpipes and we all got very pissed, including all the old boys.

    I took my boy to Ramp World in Cardiff yesterday and it was as packed as ever, I went to Tescos this morning and apart from a pasta shortage it was fine... and I've just been over the local pub for Sunday dinner where it was as jam-packed as it always is. The wife and me will go to work and the kids will go to school in the morning, as usual.

    Most people don't live by the fear and hysteria-culture of Twitter or social media and just get the feck on with it. And will die with fewer regrets.

    This is how EXACTLY people initially reacted in Italy. with a shrug and a MEH and off they toddled to the café for an espresso with their friends.

    Then the deaths came, and the horror stories, and the young people getting ill, and the crematoria working 24/7 to burn the bodies.

    Now the Italians do NOT behave like you.
    I would suggest that it is you who is in a very small minority, not me.

    I might be wrong and I might die but I'm not going to worry myself stupid until it happens, just like all the other people going about their daily business aren't.
    All my Italian friends and family have contacted us to stay at home.....Why do you think they have done that?
    My kids are going to school in the morning with 750 other kids. I'll go to work tomorrow and come into contact with 100 people. What's the point of me staying at home when I'll likely catch it through the kids anyway.
    And that's the way the government kickstart their 'herd immunity' (sorry, 'flattening the curve') project.
    Seeing the Italian data makes this theory madness sadly....once your health system cannot cope the fatality rate rockets and perfectly treatable people start to die in large numbers
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    tlg86 said:

    Because they are busy doing the job?

    Informing the public is their job
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003

    We need something like we had during the Falklands War from Ian McDonald - simple, clear, unvarnished facts, every day.

    Exactly
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Because they are busy doing the job?

    Informing the public is part of their job
    Fixed that for you.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    eadric said:

    Uh, these figures for Italy are very different to Andrea's. Unfortunately

    Yes, as Foxy was saying these are the nationwide figures, rather than the Lombardy ones. On the one hand the Lombardy situation seems not to be changing too much, but where are the other cases ? That's the concerning bit for me.
    North Italians who escaped to the rest of the country last Sunday?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited March 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    I am sure the Prime Minister has nothing else to do every day
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited March 2020
    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    Uh, these figures for Italy are very different to Andrea's. Unfortunately

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1239237647031242752?s=20

    These are gross figures. Others are net.

    Sadly, Andrea's figures were just for Lombardy....why is Lombardy a problem for us...possibly because of Bergamo and Ryanair....

    Bergamo province is dramatically hit. They have 3.416 currently infected people.

    A few days ago there were reports of 40 coffins lying in the church of the hospital because mortuary chambers were already full and crematory services couldn't cope with the daily requests


    Regional cabinet member for welfare says Lombardy now have 1200 ICU beds overall.
    Doctors from Venezuela, Cuba and China are expected to come in the days to help.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Scott_xP said:
    I am sure thev rime Minister has nothing else to do every day
    It doesn't have to be Boris though does it. Downing Street must have a press officer or two.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    tlg86 said:
    We need something like we had during the Falklands War from Ian McDonald - simple, clear, unvarnished facts, every day.
    He was absolutely AWFUL. His deathknell announcements every evening were universally recognised as a public relations disaster. Which is why he was subsequently removed from the role and a memo went around Whitehall never ever to repeat the same mistake again.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    tyson said:

    ukpaul said:

    Fenster said:

    tyson said:

    Fenster said:

    eadric said:

    Fenster said:

    Some of the more fearful and fatalistic comments on here are, I think, way over the top. The virus is serious but why should Old King Cole be told to cancel all his weekly appointments? If he and his wife are well they should continue as normal.

    I was over the rugby club until 3am yesterday morning, there must've been 250 people over there. The Scots came down from Jed Thistle, the great Gary Armstrong was with them (he told us Doddie Weir, sadly, is not in great condition), two games of rugby were played, the Scots boys played the bagpipes and we all got very pissed, including all the old boys.

    I took my boy to Ramp World in Cardiff yesterday and it was as packed as ever, I went to Tescos this morning and apart from a pasta shortage it was fine... and I've just been over the local pub for Sunday dinner where it was as jam-packed as it always is. The wife and me will go to work and the kids will go to school in the morning, as usual.

    Most people don't live by the fear and hysteria-culture of Twitter or social media and just get the feck on with it. And will die with fewer regrets.

    This is how EXACTLY people initially reacted in Italy. with a shrug and a MEH and off they toddled to the café for an espresso with their friends.

    Then the deaths came, and the horror stories, and the young people getting ill, and the crematoria working 24/7 to burn the bodies.

    Now the Italians do NOT behave like you.
    I would suggest that it is you who is in a very small minority, not me.

    I might be wrong and I might die but I'm not going to worry myself stupid until it happens, just like all the other people going about their daily business aren't.
    All my Italian friends and family have contacted us to stay at home.....Why do you think they have done that?
    My kids are going to school in the morning with 750 other kids. I'll go to work tomorrow and come into contact with 100 people. What's the point of me staying at home when I'll likely catch it through the kids anyway.
    And that's the way the government kickstart their 'herd immunity' (sorry, 'flattening the curve') project.
    Seeing the Italian data makes this theory madness sadly....once your health system cannot cope the fatality rate rockets and perfectly treatable people start to die in large numbers
    Delaying the peak is madness?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    A person who I had coffee with last Thursday has been confirmed as having the virus. The latest advice seems to be that I don’t self isolate unless I develop symptoms. I don’t have any at the moment.

    I think the reality is that many of us are going to come into contact with carriers frequently. We either completely cut ourselves off or carry on until there are symptoms.

    It’s a bit troubling though.

    According to the BBC you are covered by the previously issued advice:

    Anyone who has travelled to an affected area, or who has been in close contact with an infected person, had already been asked to self-isolate for 14 days.
    We had coffee not sex. I have a tricky court case tomorrow morning. I am genuinely unsure what to do. Trying to pass it on would be very difficult at this point.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Scott_xP said:
    If we do that here, the Government better have a plan as to how to provide cash to these businesses, or we will come out of this and find every pub has gone bust.
  • Scott_xP said:
    I am sure thev rime Minister has nothing else to do every day
    It doesn't have to be Boris though does it. Downing Street must have a press officer or two.
    Indeed but that is not what Jenny implied
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Scott_xP said:
    If we do that here, the Government better have a plan as to how to provide cash to these businesses, or we will come out of this and find every pub has gone bust.
    Also, close for two weeks? Try two months.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Scott_xP said:
    I am sure thev rime Minister has nothing else to do every day
    It doesn't have to be Boris though does it. Downing Street must have a press officer or two.
    I think there was a reason why a week or so ago the Govt wanted to go to weekly updating of numbers etc before they weren't forced to backtrack. Having to provide a running commentary on the basis of variable numbers probably isn't actually helpful. So they've gone for a compromise of providing the numbers, but without the running commentary.

    Remember that whilst these seem like big and scary increases from day to day, in the context of projection of 50-60% of the country getting infected they are a pindrop.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Do people want the government to breach all sorts of patient confidentiality protocols?

    And on the Falklands...

    https://tinyurl.com/sfguevo
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375
    Interesting that the mood on twitter has gone from "Boris Granny Killer" to "We can't ask old people to stay in doors" in about an hour.

    What did those people think is happening when everyone goes into lockdown?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    tlg86 said:
    We need something like we had during the Falklands War from Ian McDonald - simple, clear, unvarnished facts, every day.
    He was absolutely AWFUL. His deathknell announcements every evening were universally recognised as a public relations disaster. Which is why he was subsequently removed from the role and a memo went around Whitehall never ever to repeat the same mistake again.
    He was iconic. We loved him and I am sorry to note he died unhonoured. Why would announcements of the deaths of UK personnel not be "deathknell?"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    edited March 2020
    Stocky said:

    Good post - though would you mind using s`s and laying off the z`s?

    OK. I prefer the look of the z's - the zees rather - but you're right it's a bad habit. Especially for a person who is meant to be boycotting all things American until the Dem landslide in Nov.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Number of currently infected by Italian regions

    10.043 in Lombardia, 2.741 in Emilia-Romagna, 1.989 in Veneto, 1.087 nelle Marche, 1.030 in Piemonte, 763 in Toscana, 493 in Liguria, 396 nel Lazio, 296 in Campania, 316 in Friuli Venezia Giulia, 367 nella Provincia autonoma di Trento, 199 nella Provincia autonoma di Bolzano, 212 in Puglia, 179 in Sicilia, 139 in Umbria, 128 in Abruzzo, 66 in Calabria, 75 in Sardegna, 56 in Valle d’Aosta, 17 in Molise e 11 in Basilicata.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    A person who I had coffee with last Thursday has been confirmed as having the virus. The latest advice seems to be that I don’t self isolate unless I develop symptoms. I don’t have any at the moment.

    I think the reality is that many of us are going to come into contact with carriers frequently. We either completely cut ourselves off or carry on until there are symptoms.

    It’s a bit troubling though.

    According to the BBC you are covered by the previously issued advice:

    Anyone who has travelled to an affected area, or who has been in close contact with an infected person, had already been asked to self-isolate for 14 days.
    We had coffee not sex. I have a tricky court case tomorrow morning. I am genuinely unsure what to do. Trying to pass it on would be very difficult at this point.
    If you don't pass it on, you may end up passing something else on.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    Uh, these figures for Italy are very different to Andrea's. Unfortunately

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1239237647031242752?s=20

    These are gross figures. Others are net.

    Sadly, Andrea's figures were just for Lombardy....why is Lombardy a problem for us...possibly because of Bergamo and Ryanair....

    Bergamo province is dramatically hit. They have 3.416 currently infected people.

    A few days ago there were reports of 40 coffins lying in the church of the hospital because mortuary chambers were already full and crematory services couldn't cope with the daily requests


    Regional cabinet member for welfare says Lombardy now have 1200 ICU beds overall.
    Doctors from Venezuela, Cuba and China are expected to come in the days to help.

    There must be something special about Lombardy. We are not getting these reports from other parts of Italy, are we? So what is special about Lombardy?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If we do that here, the Government better have a plan as to how to provide cash to these businesses, or we will come out of this and find every pub has gone bust.
    Also, close for two weeks? Try two months.
    Four months.

    And then what? Reopen and it all kicks off again.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    tlg86 said:
    We need something like we had during the Falklands War from Ian McDonald - simple, clear, unvarnished facts, every day.
    It was so slow that I tended to doze off between sentences.
    Anyway, this is much bigger than humanity's incessant war making: But, like war, it appears to be another example of self harming.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    No bars open for St Patrick's Day.

    If that doesn't bring home the severity.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,375
    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Because they are busy doing the job?

    Informing the public is their job
    Running the country is their job. Informing the country of what is happening is *a job* for the government.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    tyson said:

    ukpaul said:

    Fenster said:

    tyson said:

    Fenster said:

    eadric said:

    Fenster said:

    Some of the more fearful and fatalistic comments on here are, I think, way over the top. The virus is serious but why should Old King Cole be told to cancel all his weekly appointments? If he and his wife are well they should continue as normal.

    I was over the rugby club until 3am yesterday morning, there must've been 250 people over there. The Scots came down from Jed Thistle, the great Gary Armstrong was with them (he told us Doddie Weir, sadly, is not in great condition), two games of rugby were played, the Scots boys played the bagpipes and we all got very pissed, including all the old boys.

    I took my boy to Ramp World in Cardiff yesterday and it was as packed as ever, I went to Tescos this morning and apart from a pasta shortage it was fine... and I've just been over the local pub for Sunday dinner where it was as jam-packed as it always is. The wife and me will go to work and the kids will go to school in the morning, as usual.

    Most people don't live by the fear and hysteria-culture of Twitter or social media and just get the feck on with it. And will die with fewer regrets.

    This is how EXACTLY people initially reacted in Italy. with a shrug and a MEH and off they toddled to the café for an espresso with their friends.

    Then the deaths came, and the horror stories, and the young people getting ill, and the crematoria working 24/7 to burn the bodies.

    Now the Italians do NOT behave like you.
    I would suggest that it is you who is in a very small minority, not me.

    I might be wrong and I might die but I'm not going to worry myself stupid until it happens, just like all the other people going about their daily business aren't.
    All my Italian friends and family have contacted us to stay at home.....Why do you think they have done that?
    My kids are going to school in the morning with 750 other kids. I'll go to work tomorrow and come into contact with 100 people. What's the point of me staying at home when I'll likely catch it through the kids anyway.
    And that's the way the government kickstart their 'herd immunity' (sorry, 'flattening the curve') project.
    Seeing the Italian data makes this theory madness sadly....once your health system cannot cope the fatality rate rockets and perfectly treatable people start to die in large numbers
    Sadly no approach is without risk. If you're going to turn the country into a prison then how long do you do it for and what happens if you finally let all the inmates out and the cycle of infection simply starts all over again?

    The vast scale of the poverty and immiseration caused by the attempt to fight this illness is going to cause more suffering, and probably more death, than the illness itself. It's just that it will unfold over a much longer period of time and people won't recognise Covid as the cause.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    @DavidL I'm in a similiar position - not exactly the same but not dissimiliar to you.
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