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  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    edited March 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Is there anything wrong with people over 70 getting in a car, driving around (with the windows closed) for a short time to have a change of scenery, and then returning to their home?

    Clearly not, assuming it is not a shared car. People including commentators seem to have watched too many movies where the virus is airborne and more contagious.

    It is spreading through contact with eyes, nose or mouth, or someone coughing sneezing within a metre of you.

    The chance of catching it on a journey you describe or walking a dog through an empty field seems miniscule.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    alex_ said:

    What is the scientific basis for saying people can't go for walks?

    I don't think that is being said. But to avoid conflicting advice, a simple message of "stay indoors" would be preferred over "stay indoors unless you live in an area with a population density of less than Y and can be sure you won't come into contact with a plague bearer". You have to hope people use a bit of common sense.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    What is the scientific basis for saying people can't go for walks?

    You will come into contact with people, you will cough on the pavement, gates, cars etc.
    Although even if most of those really represent material risks of spreading the virus, only the first should apply to somebody self isolating for their own safety (ie. over 70s) as opposed to risk of transmission to others.

    And I repeat my question - if people live with 70 year olds are they forced to self isolate with them? What percentage of the working population lives with elderly relatives?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    The mind boggles as to why a 74 year old Italian would travel to the Central African Republic, one of the most dangerous countries in the world.

    "1st case in the Central African Republic: a 74-year-old Italian who had recently been in Milan [source]"

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Nowt as strange as folk.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
    Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

    The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

    I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

    You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.
    It will kill some people. Literally.

    What happens to smokers?
    They're already committed to killing themselves
    But they might start smoking inside rather than outside. Massively increasing the risk to others. If only due to increased risks of fire in flats.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Andy_JS said:

    The mind boggles as to why a 74 year old Italian would travel to the Central African Republic, one of the most dangerous countries in the world.

    "1st case in the Central African Republic: a 74-year-old Italian who had recently been in Milan [source]"

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Perhaps he lives there and was in Italy visiting firends and family.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    What is the scientific basis for saying people can't go for walks?

    You will come into contact with people, you will cough on the pavement, gates, cars etc.
    Although even if most of those really represent material risks of spreading the virus, only the first should apply to somebody self isolating for their own safety (ie. over 70s) as opposed to risk of transmission to others.

    And I repeat my question - if people live with 70 year olds are they forced to self isolate with them? What percentage of the working population lives with elderly relatives?

    No one is forced to do anything. It's all about reducing the rate of infection, so even if only half of over 70s take the advice and are isolated, that will be a significant improvement over the baseline.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51898604

    I mean really? Pogba earning £15m a year and delivering nothing for it this year wants others to donate £27,000 to raise his profile during coronavirus. Just give the money (and more) yourself.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Gabs3 said:

    Over 50s number is shocking:

    twitter.com/pbump/status/1238908474219782145

    But they are shit scared of Mexicans coming over the border, Islamist terrorists, sanders becoming president....
    https://twitter.com/pbump/status/1238908641257889795?s=19
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    rkrkrk said:

    I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
    Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

    The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

    I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

    You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.
    Here in Spain they are arresting people and dishing out large fines for those who stay at home means go out for a bike ride or a walk.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51898604

    I mean really? Pogba earning £15m a year and delivering nothing for it this year wants others to donate £27,000 to raise his profile during coronavirus. Just give the money (and more) yourself.

    What a dick....compare to rookie NBA player Zion Williamson, who will paid for all the wages of staff that work at the arena.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    That advice seems aimed at potential carriers (eg. symptomatic or returning from abroad). Not to 70 years olds isolating to protect themselves from others.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Castleford vs St Helens Rugby League live on Sky Sports 1 now... with Chris Kamara!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    alex_ said:

    That advice seems aimed at potential carriers (eg. symptomatic or returning from abroad). Not to 70 years olds isolating to protect themselves from others.
    The more you complicate the message the less likely people will follow it.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    alex_ said:

    Does anyone living with elderly relatives have to go into quarantine with them?

    That's a very good question, and one issue that I don't recall being raised anywhere so far. Many older people, especially in South Asian communities, live in multi-generational households: will their children and grandchildren all have to self-isolate as a group for the duration? There'll also be meaningful numbers of pensioner couples in which one half is 70-plus and the other is a little younger. Not such a problem if they're both retired, rather more complicated if the younger partner is still in work.
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    This seniors quarantine will be advisory only, I presume.

    Yes, I should think so. Surely parliament would not pass a law making it illegal for them to leave their homes?
    Probably not, or not just yet anyway - although it'll confront a very tricky situation if too many older people refuse to comply.

    If reports of the contents of the emergency Bills are to be believed, they will contain powers for the police and armed forces to forcibly detain infected persons. An offence of breaking quarantine may also be included, to be held in reserve in case the Government needs to command all bar essential workers to stay home during the peak of the outbreak. We shall have to wait and see.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861

    Just 31 new cases in Japan today after a spike yesterday, puts the average back on the steady 50 per day track. However anecdotally the testing sounds extremely shitty, people with all the symptoms getting denied tests...

    Edmund. You may already have done this but I wonder if you could describe in general terms and also individually to yourself how life is operating now in Japan. For instance shopping, accessing health care, individuals who don't or can't work from home, how people are getting about etc ...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604

    alex_ said:

    That advice seems aimed at potential carriers (eg. symptomatic or returning from abroad). Not to 70 years olds isolating to protect themselves from others.
    The more you complicate the message the less likely people will follow it.
    The more draconian the message the less likely people will follow it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Beginning to wonder if every Government action or piece of advice is being seen as a go ahead for the Devil's advocate.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?

    They can't really, but if you just say the government advises you not to, it doesn't have the same impact. The government has advised people to stop smoking and cut down on the sugary treats and the booze, and it takes a long time (and normally a trip to hospital with something) for people to consider doing it.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    That advice seems aimed at potential carriers (eg. symptomatic or returning from abroad). Not to 70 years olds isolating to protect themselves from others.
    The more you complicate the message the less likely people will follow it.
    But the more people cannot understand the rationale the less they will be prepared to buy into it. It's easy enough for people living in relatively spacious living conditions, perhaps with gardens etc. Not for people living in poky 1-bed/studio or overcrowded flats with little access to fresh air. Coronavirus isn't the only killer out there*.

    *O/T but I understand that this is a problem for doctors triaging people with temperatures. Young children have temperatures all the time, and often for illnesses a hell of a lot more dangerous to them than the virus.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Cyclefree said:

    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?

    Plague carriers will be marked with indelible ink. The social stigma will be enough to keep them inside. ;)
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    alex_ said:

    Does anyone living with elderly relatives have to go into quarantine with them?

    That's a very good question, and one issue that I don't recall being raised anywhere so far. Many older people, especially in South Asian communities, live in multi-generational households: will their children and grandchildren all have to self-isolate as a group for the duration? There'll also be meaningful numbers of pensioner couples in which one half is 70-plus and the other is a little younger. Not such a problem if they're both retired, rather more complicated if the younger partner is still in work.
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    This seniors quarantine will be advisory only, I presume.

    Yes, I should think so. Surely parliament would not pass a law making it illegal for them to leave their homes?
    Probably not, or not just yet anyway - although it'll confront a very tricky situation if too many older people refuse to comply.

    If reports of the contents of the emergency Bills are to be believed, they will contain powers for the police and armed forces to forcibly detain infected persons. An offence of breaking quarantine may also be included, to be held in reserve in case the Government needs to command all bar essential workers to stay home during the peak of the outbreak. We shall have to wait and see.
    "Forcibly detain infected persons" - how will the police know if the individual is infected? Caution him/her subject to testing? If they prove to be positive then any legal proceding would surely be dodgy because the person had no reason to believe they were infected at the time of the arrest. The whole thing would be a farce.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    edited March 2020
    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!

    All the U3a events are for 60+-er's.

  • eristdoof said:

    Just 31 new cases in Japan today after a spike yesterday, puts the average back on the steady 50 per day track. However anecdotally the testing sounds extremely shitty, people with all the symptoms getting denied tests...

    Can you tell me why the total number of Japanese cases dropped dramatically (ie negative number of new cases) two days ago?
    Presumably a bunch of people from the cruise ships being summarily delared closed cases.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Stocky said:

    alex_ said:

    Does anyone living with elderly relatives have to go into quarantine with them?

    That's a very good question, and one issue that I don't recall being raised anywhere so far. Many older people, especially in South Asian communities, live in multi-generational households: will their children and grandchildren all have to self-isolate as a group for the duration? There'll also be meaningful numbers of pensioner couples in which one half is 70-plus and the other is a little younger. Not such a problem if they're both retired, rather more complicated if the younger partner is still in work.
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    This seniors quarantine will be advisory only, I presume.

    Yes, I should think so. Surely parliament would not pass a law making it illegal for them to leave their homes?
    Probably not, or not just yet anyway - although it'll confront a very tricky situation if too many older people refuse to comply.

    If reports of the contents of the emergency Bills are to be believed, they will contain powers for the police and armed forces to forcibly detain infected persons. An offence of breaking quarantine may also be included, to be held in reserve in case the Government needs to command all bar essential workers to stay home during the peak of the outbreak. We shall have to wait and see.
    "Forcibly detain infected persons" - how will the police know if the individual is infected? Caution him/her subject to testing? If they prove to be positive then any legal proceding would surely be dodgy because the person had no reason to believe they were infected at the time of the arrest. The whole thing would be a farce.
    It is to stop twats like the idiot we brought back from China, who decided he wasn't getting the food he liked and so demanded he be let out and taken back.

    There will be people who decide they don't want to stay in a hospital with a load of other infected people, believing they will get it worse or that they are definitely now better and can't miss another episode of Westworld as they are falling too far behind.

    A number of years ago my father was in hospital after suffering a heart attack and the guy next to him was told his condition was so serious he wasn't allowed to leave the ward under any circumstances. He ran off to McDonalds.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited March 2020
    isam said:

    Castleford vs St Helens Rugby League live on Sky Sports 1 now... with Chris Kamara!

    Up North. I wonder if we are seeing that the "outrage" all over twitter at the Govt's approach is massively centred on London and the South? Compare with people complaining that the National League football went ahead yesterday.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    This is very good, very balanced and clear explanation. Actually having some bloke on who knows what they are talking about rather than reading out a letter signed by MSc maths student and lab techs...

    Sir Mark Walport, the UK government's former chief scientific adviser, explains the government’s response to COVID-19 and says ‘herd immunity’ is not the aim.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzvOwF48z4s

    Excellent! I guess the usual suspects will be "What does he know? A guy on twitter says..."

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited March 2020
    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Shouldn't b be appended with "knowing you have a 5% chance of dying" for the more vulnerable?

    For the rest of us, we should carry on and get it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    edited March 2020

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    Youre aware of the risks and the choices, with your mindset it may well be best to do as much as you can this week as the risk only increases in future weeks and you may not be able to do most of that by April anyway.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1239214816860016640?s=21

    ~2500 tests, another 200 positive. 20% day on day increase.

    We seem to be following German numbers more than Italy or Spain.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    felix said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
    Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

    The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

    I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

    You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.
    Here in Spain they are arresting people and dishing out large fines for those who stay at home means go out for a bike ride or a walk.
    That'll be interesting if they try that over here. Policemen dishing out on-the-spot fines of a weeks' pension to dotty old octogenarian dears with mild cognitive impairment tottering back from the corner shop will not go down at all well.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Stocky said:



    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).

    a) for me, no question. Exercise, fresh air, etc. are all good, but a couple of months without it won't kill me. The virus can. And so can the other high-risk people who'd be wandering around without the restriction.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    alex_ said:

    That advice seems aimed at potential carriers (eg. symptomatic or returning from abroad). Not to 70 years olds isolating to protect themselves from others.
    That's to follow.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Truthfully. I have mild asthma, which is why I'm missing the gym. Don't know who else has just used the equipment, even if I disinfect handles etc on the equipment.
    We're very doubtful about the pub lunch, too. We don't know who else will be in the pub, obviously. However, we know who'll be at the smaller U3a meetings.
    So will probably go to those, although the groups might set up an internet...... Skype or something....link for next month. We have the technology.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    felix said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
    Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

    The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

    I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

    You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.
    Here in Spain they are arresting people and dishing out large fines for those who stay at home means go out for a bike ride or a walk.
    That'll be interesting if they try that over here. Policemen dishing out on-the-spot fines of a weeks' pension to dotty old octogenarian dears with mild cognitive impairment tottering back from the corner shop will not go down at all well.
    I heard on the radio that in Italy people are being arrested for leaving their houses to walk their dog. I don`t think that we in Britain would stand for this.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Truthfully. I have mild asthma, which is why I'm missing the gym. Don't know who else has just used the equipment, even if I disinfect handles etc on the equipment.
    We're very doubtful about the pub lunch, too. We don't know who else will be in the pub, obviously. However, we know who'll be at the smaller U3a meetings.
    So will probably go to those, although the groups might set up an internet...... Skype or something....link for next month. We have the technology.
    WhatsApp is also good for group chats, if you all have it.
  • I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!

    All the U3a events are for 60+-er's.

    I get it, my mum is 75 (and has a twin brother) - she is out and about everyday and maintains a great social life. She had a very busy working life, so finds it impossible to really relax.

    My uncle travels for months on end, and has already been in touch to say he has no intention of returning to the UK unless forced to, he feels he is at much less risk of contracting illness in a hot climate. He's not in Europe, so I can't say I blame him.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    alex_ said:

    <

    It will kill some people. Literally.

    What happens to smokers?

    They open a window. It's legal to smoke in your own home. Admittedly you're killing yourself anyway, but you're not killing anyone else.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    Trump is the latter day Private Walker from Dad's Army.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited March 2020

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!

    All the U3a events are for 60+-er's.

    I think the complete opposite of what those people might be thinking. Most of the over 70s I know have a more active life than the younger people I know.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    I imagine if he did buy the vaccine company, he would brand the vaccine after himself.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    So, when will the vulnerable and old actually be allowed out again?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
    Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

    The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

    I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

    You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.
    Here in Spain they are arresting people and dishing out large fines for those who stay at home means go out for a bike ride or a walk.
    That'll be interesting if they try that over here. Policemen dishing out on-the-spot fines of a weeks' pension to dotty old octogenarian dears with mild cognitive impairment tottering back from the corner shop will not go down at all well.
    I heard on the radio that in Italy people are being arrested for leaving their houses to walk their dog. I don`t think that we in Britain would stand for this.
    It all depends how bad it gets. But that is what lockdown means - there are plenty in the UK asking why we aren't following Italy and the Europeans already. Now you have the answer.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Stocky said:



    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).

    a) for me, no question. Exercise, fresh air, etc. are all good, but a couple of months without it won't kill me. The virus can. And so can the other high-risk people who'd be wandering around without the restriction.
    Living in a one room flat with limited fresh air, as a smoker, for 4 months? Some might decide that such a life isn't worth living. Bear in mind that many may feel that they are living on borrowed time anyway, and don't want to waste what could be a fairly large proportion of their remaining life. At the height of summer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

    It is difficult now to really be able to make comparisons as the testing regime is changing away from community tracing and the numbers of tests is quite different.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited March 2020

    alex_ said:

    <

    It will kill some people. Literally.

    What happens to smokers?

    They open a window. It's legal to smoke in your own home. Admittedly you're killing yourself anyway, but you're not killing anyone else.
    You are if you start a fire. And "open a window" isn't actually available to many people in large tower blocks.
  • The panic is bubbling underneath. It’s going to feel like a very odd country in a couple of months time.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    felix said:

    Stocky said:

    felix said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I may be missing something but self isolation =/= staying at home?
    Presumably going out for a long walk in nature is totally fine.

    The existing advice for the seven days' worth of self isolation for suspected cases is entitled "Stay at home" and explicitly states that "You cannot go for a walk."

    I assume this means that elderly and medically vulnerable self-isolators will also be trapped inside (unless they live in houses with enclosed back gardens, which will allow them to get outdoors without coming into contact or close to any other people.)

    You can therefore appreciate why the Government is stalling for as long as possible. It is a Draconian measure.
    Here in Spain they are arresting people and dishing out large fines for those who stay at home means go out for a bike ride or a walk.
    That'll be interesting if they try that over here. Policemen dishing out on-the-spot fines of a weeks' pension to dotty old octogenarian dears with mild cognitive impairment tottering back from the corner shop will not go down at all well.
    I heard on the radio that in Italy people are being arrested for leaving their houses to walk their dog. I don`t think that we in Britain would stand for this.
    It all depends how bad it gets. But that is what lockdown means - there are plenty in the UK asking why we aren't following Italy and the Europeans already. Now you have the answer.
    You mean, because we wouldn`t stand for it? I`m amazed that Italians are standing for it - maybe they are not and the current government over there is doomed.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

    Someone suggested yesterday's jump in numbers was likely due to a one off factor to do with testing resources.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    <

    It will kill some people. Literally.

    What happens to smokers?

    They open a window. It's legal to smoke in your own home. Admittedly you're killing yourself anyway, but you're not killing anyone else.
    You are if you start a fire.
    Its a filthy habit but smokers have smoked indoors for centuries and not simply started a fire every time they do.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    alex_ said:

    Stocky said:



    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).

    a) for me, no question. Exercise, fresh air, etc. are all good, but a couple of months without it won't kill me. The virus can. And so can the other high-risk people who'd be wandering around without the restriction.
    Living in a one room flat with limited fresh air, as a smoker, for 4 months? Some might decide that such a life isn't worth living. Bear in mind that many may feel that they are living on borrowed time anyway, and don't want to waste what could be a fairly large proportion of their remaining life. At the height of summer.
    Then they can go outside for a cigarette?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    FPT

    My only criticism of Johnson so far is his 'I have to level with you...' statement which I felt was unnecessary classic political Dom. Dom apparently has an interest in epidemiology according to the FT, so he is an expert!

    The Financial Times is wrong. Someone searched Dominic Cummings's blog for the string "epidemiology" and found the quote "I am particularly interested in public health and the field of epidemiology", but in actual fact that wasn't written by him but by a brain-dumper commenter called Frances.

    I stand corrected. Fake news from the FT, who would have thought it?

    I suspect in his own mind Dom is an expert epidemiologist anyway.
    If it was Boris / Big Dom in charge during WWII, the Nazi's wouldn't have needed a propaganda machine, they could have just relied on all those whose hatred of those two overrides everything to do their job for them.
    Which would be a good reason for removing them to be replaced by a figure enjoying much greater public confidence - similar to Chamberlain making way for Churchill in May 1940.
    I can't think of anyone who could take on that role from the current Tory party. My understanding is Hunt is not well liked by the medical fraternity who need to be on board.

    Maybe from recent history, Cameron quickly elevated to the Lords?
    I had thought of Hunt or Theresa May.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    I imagine if he did buy the vaccine company, he would brand the vaccine after himself.

    There may be some debate over here as to whether the PM's strategy is the right one, however any decision is evidence based. In the US there is no strategy, they are hostage to the whim of a crazy man.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

    We've stopped testing people...unless they go to hospitals....so the overall number figure is pointless....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    RobD said:

    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Truthfully. I have mild asthma, which is why I'm missing the gym. Don't know who else has just used the equipment, even if I disinfect handles etc on the equipment.
    We're very doubtful about the pub lunch, too. We don't know who else will be in the pub, obviously. However, we know who'll be at the smaller U3a meetings.
    So will probably go to those, although the groups might set up an internet...... Skype or something....link for next month. We have the technology.
    WhatsApp is also good for group chats, if you all have it.
    Good thought, thanks. Use it for family discussions.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited March 2020

    twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1239214816860016640?s=21

    ~2500 tests, another 200 positive. 20% day on day increase.

    We seem to be following German numbers more than Italy or Spain.
    "As of 9am on 15 March"

    Even if you take 1372 as the final figure for today, there is a five-fold increase in 7 days in the UK, a rate of 25% (not 20%) and that means doubling every 3 days.

    And another thing: in terms of deaths the UK has 3 times as meany deaths than Germany from a quarter of the known positive cases.
  • coronapop2coronapop2 Posts: 16
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    The UK stats today aren't actually THAT bad.

    A tiny glimmer of hope?

    I’ve heard multiple anecdotes now of no longer testing. Stay at home for fourteen days.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited March 2020
    It's estimated that around 200 people die every day from smoking-related illnesses in the UK.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    eristdoof said:

    twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1239214816860016640?s=21

    ~2500 tests, another 200 positive. 20% day on day increase.

    We seem to be following German numbers more than Italy or Spain.
    "As of 9am on 15 March"

    Even if you take 1372 as the final figure for today, there is a five-fold increase in 7 days in the UK, a rate of 25% (not 20%) and that means doubling every 3 days.
    The data is always from 9am. 20% is the increase day on day from yesterday.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    The new self-isolation rules for new coughs - does that apply if you have a new cold with a sore throat but no coughing and no fever?
  • One would hope that there's a special circle of hell reserved for people who do things like this:

    LOS ANGELES - U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers assigned to Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), International Mail Facility (IMF), intercepted a package containing suspected counterfeit COVID-19 test kits arriving from the United Kingdom.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!

    All the U3a events are for 60+-er's.

    Seriously, cancel all of them.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    eadric said:

    The UK stats today aren't actually THAT bad.

    A tiny glimmer of hope?

    We are not testing...unless at hospital...

    Sadly, the spike in numbers are those in hospital I guess who are showing extreme symptoms....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!

    All the U3a events are for 60+-er's.

    I get it, my mum is 75 (and has a twin brother) - she is out and about everyday and maintains a great social life. She had a very busy working life, so finds it impossible to really relax.

    My uncle travels for months on end, and has already been in touch to say he has no intention of returning to the UK unless forced to, he feels he is at much less risk of contracting illness in a hot climate. He's not in Europe, so I can't say I blame him.
    I think your uncle is right. It was suggested to us that we go to family in Thailand for three months, but that option is closed off now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Incidentally, what's the current official advice on visiting parents/grandparents?

    I've had a quick look but from what I could see then, providing there's no fever/cough it's still deemed ok.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    RobD said:

    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Truthfully. I have mild asthma, which is why I'm missing the gym. Don't know who else has just used the equipment, even if I disinfect handles etc on the equipment.
    We're very doubtful about the pub lunch, too. We don't know who else will be in the pub, obviously. However, we know who'll be at the smaller U3a meetings.
    So will probably go to those, although the groups might set up an internet...... Skype or something....link for next month. We have the technology.
    WhatsApp is also good for group chats, if you all have it.
    There's a blog on the internet that is good for group chats.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    The UK stats today aren't actually THAT bad.

    A tiny glimmer of hope?

    We are not testing...unless at hospital...

    Sadly, the spike in numbers are those in hospital I guess who are showing extreme symptoms....
    I am actually surprised it is that low a percentage of the overall tests if it is only those in hospital displaying the symptoms.

    Unless, the egg-heads weren't 100% truthful and there is also random sampling going on in the community (but they don't want the public overloading 111 demanding they are very important and thus must have a test).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Truthfully. I have mild asthma, which is why I'm missing the gym. Don't know who else has just used the equipment, even if I disinfect handles etc on the equipment.
    We're very doubtful about the pub lunch, too. We don't know who else will be in the pub, obviously. However, we know who'll be at the smaller U3a meetings.
    So will probably go to those, although the groups might set up an internet...... Skype or something....link for next month. We have the technology.
    WhatsApp is also good for group chats, if you all have it.
    There's a blog on the internet that is good for group chats.
    Hmmm, not sure what you mean.

    :D
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    edited March 2020
    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Truthfully. I have mild asthma, which is why I'm missing the gym. Don't know who else has just used the equipment, even if I disinfect handles etc on the equipment.
    We're very doubtful about the pub lunch, too. We don't know who else will be in the pub, obviously. However, we know who'll be at the smaller U3a meetings.
    So will probably go to those, although the groups might set up an internet...... Skype or something....link for next month. We have the technology.
    WhatsApp is also good for group chats, if you all have it.
    There's a blog on the internet that is good for group chats.
    Reference please.
    LOL, if you weren't thinking of this!!!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tyson said:

    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

    We've stopped testing people...unless they go to hospitals....so the overall number figure is pointless....
    Still carried out over 2,500 tests in a day....which is in line with what we've been doing.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Presumably twice a day walk around the garden is the solution for over 70s facing quarantine
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    Presumably twice a day walk around the garden is the solution for over 70s facing quarantine

    Assuming they have a garden...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Pizza with pineapple still not selling well.

    https://twitter.com/bianco222/status/1238830341630107660
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!

    All the U3a events are for 60+-er's.


    Cancel all of them...for you and your wife....you are not only placing yourselves at risk, but you may end up taking a hospital place that could save the life of someone else.....

    You are really and completely irresponsible if any of you two do any of those.....if you cannot think of yourselves, think of other people
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    HYUFD said:

    Presumably twice a day walk around the garden is the solution for over 70s facing quarantine

    There's that too. Our (very small) lawn needs cutting and de-mossing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    tyson said:

    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

    We've stopped testing people...unless they go to hospitals....so the overall number figure is pointless....
    Still carried out over 2,500 tests in a day....which is in line with what we've been doing.

    There is definitely something not quite right here. 2500 tests and only a small % positive. If you were only testing those admitted to hospital with symptoms, it surely would be a much bigger %. I guess it could be still some of the community testing still coming through from 4 days ago, or they are actually still random sampling across the community but not telling people that because they will demand a test.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,227
    Cyclefree said:

    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?

    I don't think it will be. Or if it is, it will be in name only. In essence I see this as formalizing via government advice what is already common sense. If you are at high risk (of death or severe illness from the virus) hunker down to minimize your chances of infection both for your sake and in the national interest - since the number one priority is to stop the NHS falling over.

    It won't be enforced by the police or by anybody else. No problem, because it won't need to be. Most people will follow the "instructions" because they will be scared of serious illness and death and/or they will feel a sense of duty to stay well and out of overstretched hospitals at this time of national crisis.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    dr_spyn said:

    Pizza with pineapple still not selling well.

    twitter.com/bianco222/status/1238830341630107660

    I can't believe any store even dares to sell that in Italy !!!
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    The UK stats today aren't actually THAT bad.

    A tiny glimmer of hope?

    We are not testing...unless at hospital...

    Sadly, the spike in numbers are those in hospital I guess who are showing extreme symptoms....
    They release the number of tests, and there is no sign of any decline so these are at least a like for like measure, although clearly there will be a large multiple of cases not formally diagnosed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited March 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Presumably twice a day walk around the garden is the solution for over 70s facing quarantine

    Assuming they have a garden...
    Yep, to state the obvious it's going to be a lot tougher for people living in small flats. 4 months is a long time to expect someone to be confined to two or three rooms in a tower block.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?

    I don't think it will be. Or if it is, it will be in name only. In essence I see this as formalizing via government advice what is already common sense. If you are at high risk (of death or severe illness from the virus) hunker down to minimize your chances of infection both for your sake and in the national interest - since the number one priority is to stop the NHS falling over.

    It won't be enforced by the police or by anybody else. No problem, because it won't need to be. Most people will follow the "instructions" because they will be scared of serious illness and death and/or they will feel a sense of duty to stay well and out of overstretched hospitals at this time of national crisis.
    I think some of the nuttier elements on twitter will want to see oldies locked up for breaking the rules, cos they voted Brexit and Tory.....
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    eristdoof said:

    twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1239214816860016640?s=21

    ~2500 tests, another 200 positive. 20% day on day increase.

    We seem to be following German numbers more than Italy or Spain.
    "As of 9am on 15 March"

    Even if you take 1372 as the final figure for today, there is a five-fold increase in 7 days in the UK, a rate of 25% (not 20%) and that means doubling every 3 days.
    The data is always from 9am. 20% is the increase day on day from yesterday.
    OK fair enough for the UK figures, other countries update ther figures multiple times in the day. But using exactly the same source as you yesterday was an increase of 48.86% in the UK.

    As I have tried to point out multiple times, using just 1 days figures for count data is totally unreliable. The variance is just too large.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    The new self-isolation rules for new coughs - does that apply if you have a new cold with a sore throat but no coughing and no fever?

    Sounds like you've got none out of two:

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1239159410250764289?s=20
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    HYUFD said:

    Presumably twice a day walk around the garden is the solution for over 70s facing quarantine

    Assuming they have a garden...
    True....I feel sorry for those in multi story flats with shared hallways, and lots of families around.....they are placing themselves at risk going out.....

    I think for most over 70's- if they can get out of their own independent access and take some fresh air and stay away from other people- go for it.....but stay away from any public confined space like a shop.....


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?

    Plague carriers will be marked with indelible ink. The social stigma will be enough to keep them inside. ;)
    Or sew a star onto their clothes.....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    tyson said:

    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

    We've stopped testing people...unless they go to hospitals....so the overall number figure is pointless....
    Still carried out over 2,500 tests in a day....which is in line with what we've been doing.

    There is definitely something not quite right here. 2500 tests and only a small % positive. If you were only testing those admitted to hospital with symptoms, it surely would be a much bigger %. I guess it could be still some of the community testing still coming through from 4 days ago, or they are actually still random sampling across the community but not telling people that because they will demand a test.
    They are testing medical staff
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    Stocky said:

    I read this as advice if one HAS coronavirus symptoms.

    I'm one of the oldest people who post here. I get the impression that some of these 40/50 yr olds think people like my wife and I don't have much of a life

    Our diary for next week ought to be
    Monday. Me Gym. Wife Chiropody (can't reach our toenails easily.) Then she should be going to a lace-making Group and I go to the chiropodist.
    Tuesday she's booked at Weight Watchers (don't know why, she looks good to me, but there you are)
    I'm going to a U3a Group meeting.
    Wednesday's gym for me, then go and meet a group of friends for coffee. In the afternoon, there's another, big, U3a meeting.
    Thursday we're booked to go to a pub lunch with U3a friends and in the afternoon I've got a WEA meeting.
    Friday I've two U3a groups.

    Admittedly it's quite a busy week, but I can't cope without getting about.
    I don't know which, apart from the gym, I'm going to cancel. If any!


    So, assuming you feel in good health, answer this truthfully:

    Would you a) rather be confined to your house or b) go out and about and take the risk of catching the virus.

    I suspect that you - like the vast majority - will say b).
    Truthfully. I have mild asthma, which is why I'm missing the gym. Don't know who else has just used the equipment, even if I disinfect handles etc on the equipment.
    We're very doubtful about the pub lunch, too. We don't know who else will be in the pub, obviously. However, we know who'll be at the smaller U3a meetings.
    So will probably go to those, although the groups might set up an internet...... Skype or something....link for next month. We have the technology.
    WhatsApp is also good for group chats, if you all have it.
    There's a blog on the internet that is good for group chats.
    Reference please.
    LOL, if you weren't thinking of this!!!
    ;)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?

    I don't think it will be. Or if it is, it will be in name only. In essence I see this as formalizing via government advice what is already common sense. If you are at high risk (of death or severe illness from the virus) hunker down to minimize your chances of infection both for your sake and in the national interest - since the number one priority is to stop the NHS falling over.

    It won't be enforced by the police or by anybody else. No problem, because it won't need to be. Most people will follow the "instructions" because they will be scared of serious illness and death and/or they will feel a sense of duty to stay well and out of overstretched hospitals at this time of national crisis.
    I think some of the nuttier elements on twitter will want to see oldies locked up for breaking the rules, cos they voted Brexit and Tory.....
    Well, I didn't. Nor did most of my U3a friends.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    If the quarantine is compulsory, how on earth can it be enforced? What are the police going to do? Arrest 72 year olds? And do what with them?

    I don't think it will be. Or if it is, it will be in name only. In essence I see this as formalizing via government advice what is already common sense. If you are at high risk (of death or severe illness from the virus) hunker down to minimize your chances of infection both for your sake and in the national interest - since the number one priority is to stop the NHS falling over.

    It won't be enforced by the police or by anybody else. No problem, because it won't need to be. Most people will follow the "instructions" because they will be scared of serious illness and death and/or they will feel a sense of duty to stay well and out of overstretched hospitals at this time of national crisis.
    That is the British way.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Presumably twice a day walk around the garden is the solution for over 70s facing quarantine

    Assuming they have a garden...
    Yep, to state the obvious it's going to be a lot tougher for people living in small flats. 4 months is a long time to expect someone to be confined to two or three rooms in a tower block.

    tyson said:

    232 new cases vs 342 yesterday, definitely (so far) slower than Italy....14 additional deaths which is a jump from 10 yesterday.

    We've stopped testing people...unless they go to hospitals....so the overall number figure is pointless....
    Still carried out over 2,500 tests in a day....which is in line with what we've been doing.

    There is definitely something not quite right here. 2500 tests and only a small % positive. If you were only testing those admitted to hospital with symptoms, it surely would be a much bigger %. I guess it could be still some of the community testing still coming through from 4 days ago, or they are actually still random sampling across the community but not telling people that because they will demand a test.

    Yes...there is a lag...I know someone from work who is waiting for his result from last week....
    But on testing...I don't think we are now comparing apples with pyjamas
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    maaarsh said:

    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    The UK stats today aren't actually THAT bad.

    A tiny glimmer of hope?

    We are not testing...unless at hospital...

    Sadly, the spike in numbers are those in hospital I guess who are showing extreme symptoms....
    They release the number of tests, and there is no sign of any decline so these are at least a like for like measure, although clearly there will be a large multiple of cases not formally diagnosed.
    But if the tests are now focused on serious cases in hospital you would expect a higher % of positives. So it is not a like for like measure.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Incidentally, what's the current official advice on visiting parents/grandparents?

    I've had a quick look but from what I could see then, providing there's no fever/cough it's still deemed ok.

    Yes - until the call goes out to self-isolate I see no reason why people shouldn't go about their business essentially as normal.

    As has been much discussed here and elsewhere recently, quarantine for older people and the medically vulnerable is going to be something of an ordeal, and a lengthy one at that. There is no point in prolonging that situation (e.g. by self-isolating immediately) unnecessarily. Some people will do that anyway because they're very frightened, but for those who aren't they might as well keep calm and carry on until instructed otherwise.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Presumably twice a day walk around the garden is the solution for over 70s facing quarantine

    Assuming they have a garden...
    Yep, to state the obvious it's going to be a lot tougher for people living in small flats. 4 months is a long time to expect someone to be confined to two or three rooms in a tower block.
    And we dont know 4 months is going to be enough. If we are good at suppressing the virus it may push it back into the winter season which would then mean we are looking at self isolation for most of the next year if not all of it.

    For that kind of timescale, we should be careful about making the self isolation too strict, as the damage to society could end up being greater than it would be to do nothing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    The reality is that the number of reported positive cases now don't really matter. We know 10,000+ have it, and people are now dying in increasing numbers.

    Obviously the important numbers for the eggheads is how many people are now requiring hospital treatment for it.

    Us on here looking at this data in the same way as opinion polls, now tells us very little. At the moment it does seem like it is more the Germany trajectory than Italy, but couple of weeks and the horror stories will start.
This discussion has been closed.