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  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,266
    FF43 said:

    I agree with this and also think public policy has to be allowed to work. The comment I would make is that science (hopefully) informs public policy, but doesn't decide it. That's a politician's job. While epidemiologists presumably would have a say on the potential effectiveness of a policy measure in terms of controlling the epidemic, they won't be making the trade-off of whether a measure with potential control benefits is worth the social or economic cost. Rightly that is Johnson's job. It's hard for the rest of us to comment on trade-off now because unlike Johnson we don't have half of the cost/benefit picture. In general it appears Johnson is reluctant to approve intrusive (but maybe effective?) measures.

    The other and maybe more important aspect of policy effectiveness is implementation. The (don't forget to use soap!) unwashed masses can definitely have an opinion on that. Policy as of now seems to (1) do a lot of washing of hands; (2) contact tracing of those with active COVID19 cases; (3) self-isolation in certain circumstances. Fine, that's the policy. That's what it is. Now, how well is that policy being promulgated, monitored and if necessary enforced? Not particularly well, from what I can see, bearing in mind we have reference countries in Asia that look to be implementing public policy with more rigour. Implementation is another responsibility of government, not scientists.
    Yes, the scientists will be presenting estimates (with uncertainties, probably quite large) on the effects of different things at different points. Presumably there's a fair bit of economic (not just health economics) input too. Clearly the best way to stop spread is complete, indefinite lockdown, but that also trashes the economy (and trashing the economy will kill people too, possibly many more). Ultimately it's the politicians' decision and responsibility, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're asking the scientists what they would do. If there's a clear scientific answer, they'll likely give it. If there's a real trade-off/uncertainty then it's the politicians' call.

    To take home working as an example, recommending it looks low cost, but an economic analysis might conclude that it's going to gut city-centre economies and transport-supporting businesses, even over a few weeks. So the epidemiologists can run some numbers (with high uncertainty) on what home working might do to cases at present and the economists look at how many businesses might go under, how many people made redundant etc. You can convert from that to a net effect on government revenue and think about how many other health interventions might have to be cut. It might give a clear cut answer where recommending or not recommending action is a no-brainer (as I suspect may be the case with our current levels of cases) or it may be a very difficult judgement call for a politician.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191
    Chameleon said:

    As much as I'd like to see some rounding off:

    https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

    Up until yesterday we'd only touched 4k 4 times (once in Feb, 6th, 7th, 8th March). Yesterday was over 5k with only partial Italian data. We're beyond 2.5k for today already.
    And once again the results are very dependent upon the level of available testing. At the weekends it seems to be less (not acceptable surely) which gives the indication of a pause. Its meaningless. We need to isolate those known to be at risk, investigating where they might be vigorously and reducing the risk of unknown carriers infecting us. So much to do.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    SNP MPs hate being called the "Scottish Nationalist Party" don't they? :grin:

    If they were smart they'd let it go.....but they won't so, Johnson keeps using it....
  • Ave_it said:

    Blackford always focussed on playing political games rather than showing true leadership

    Unfit to be in the Commons as is most of his SNP comrades

    I have no liking of Blackford but it was a fair question
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572

    Thank god he isn't in charge...just think about that for a moment, not just him but all the other total morons in the shadow cabinet and their loving of a good conspiracy theory to wish away certain uncomfortable truths.

    They would probably put it out to a members vote what course of action we should take spread out over 3 months.
    Meanwhile, the borders are open to all....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Just wondering during the war did we have politicians wasting their time wibbling over who was the more racist, more of a transphobe, more of a misogynist?

    At a guess, I'd say it was probably the nazis?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Iceland will be interesting to watch for mortality. They're all genetically similiar there.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    DavidL said:

    I read that as trains which made fractionally more sense. Trans...jeez.
    Trans issues may affect 0.00001% of the population in a physical way (it is nearer 0.01% and perhaps as much as 1%)*, but it seems to have a much larger percentage of posters on here obsessing about it. As for the gutter press.....

    * (about 5,000ish GenderCertificates have been issued for those who, presumably have gone all the way. If you count cross-dressing as a trans issue then it is estimated as 5% of the male population, possibly as high as 10%)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Probably not the best day to watch Red Dwarf’s episode Quarantine.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,133
    I am taking a small buy position on the FTSE on the basis that Rishi must have a pleasant surprise or two up his sleeve that the markets might like, and balancing my risk by taking a sell position of equivalent weight on the Dow.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If they were smart they'd let it go.....but they won't so, Johnson keeps using it....
    Indeed its really a pathetic thing to moan about. If every time an opposition MP said "Tory" the PM freaked out then every opposition MP would say it at every opportunity.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:
    HOw about the number of people who are a bit smug about having an empire behind closed doors, but aren't about to admit that to a smart8rse researcher like you?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    or the busty barmaid....
    Hello. My daughter, running her own restaurant/pub, would like to have a word.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,688
    edited March 2020
    It’s funny, you see the language used by critics of trans rights and it is eerily similar to that which was used by critics of gay rights a few decades ago.

    Won’t someone please think of the children.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    LOL LAB MPs pursuing their divisive race and gender agendas - BAU in Question Time!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IanB2 said:

    I am taking a small buy position on the FTSE on the basis that Rishi must have a pleasant surprise or two up his sleeve that the markets might like, and balancing my risk by taking a sell position of equivalent weight on the Dow.

    You hedge trader you! I hope you realise as a hedge trader you're the public enemy of the left now ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103
    geoffw said:

    Pete Wishart - what a great advertisement for the SNP!
    Gets what he deserved from Johnson.

    He is such a twat
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572

    In this woke pc times are we allowed to say such things? We might be facing a world pandemic of a killer disease, but it is still very important we remain totally woke, sign up to the trans-right pledge card and definitely don't say men can't compete in womens athletic events.
    Would it be woke to say we could supply a busty barman, with a fine set of moobs....?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    If they were smart they'd let it go.....but they won't so, Johnson keeps using it....
    Shows how stupid and juvenile Boris is, perhaps he should concentrate on his day job rather than trying to be a comedienne
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    It’s funny, you see the language used by critics of trans rights and it is eerily similar to that which was used by critics of gay rights a few decades ago.

    Won’t someone please think of the children.

    Looks completely different to me, depending upon what you mean by "trans rights"?

    If you mean people like women's rights activists including some notable names on this site the arguments look nothing like "please think of the children"
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    LOL Davey

    Still Layla will be leader soon - that will beat the opposition! :lol:

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852
    edited March 2020



    It does definitely smells like shenanigans, doesn't it? I made the initial application quite a while back, so why did this requirement only mysteriously surface days before the election?

    I'm now holding off voting waiting to see if any of the candidates will promise to fire everybody.

    I've been saying this for ages - why on earth would a cult which has taken control of all the levers of power in the party voluntarily give it up? The cult has rigged a swathe of candidate "selections" - why would the leadership be any different?

    Yes we have seen CLPs nominate non-cult candidates. But I know that the vast majority of party members haven't attended those. And a few polls suggesting the Tory Starmer will win - they have rubbished and attacked every poll and pollster. So its a simple narrative that the "silent majority" want to continue the blessed work of the twice elected leader.

    So of course RLB will be declared the winner. I have to assume that they will offer compromise with the deputy leader by declaring the Tory Rayner to be the winner whilst the NEC simultaneously takes away all of the deputy's powers and holds them directly instead.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    DavidL said:

    Ian Blackford is making a valid point but he could have done with not wasting a question on a rather silly gotcha.

    It's a setup to pointing out that statutory sickpay in Ireland is more than twice that of the UK. It's not really a question. Johnson didn't have a good (or relevant) response to that point.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538

    It’s funny, you see the language used by critics of trans rights and it is eerily similar to that which was used by critics of gay rights a few decades ago.

    Won’t someone please think of the children.

    Careful, it was concerns over gay rights that led to some people supporting rights for paedos.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,133

    Without the booze...
    BYOB
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Just got my car filled up with petrol as you should always do on budget day mornings. Given the price has been moving downward this seems an obvious choice for an increase.
  • Real class from the speaker

    What an improvement
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191
    Right. Expect the most left wing one nation budget that a Tory Chancellor has given since the 70's.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,109
    Ave_it said:

    LOL Davey

    Still Layla will be leader soon - that will beat the opposition! :lol:

    She won't

    https://www.libdemvoice.org/yougov-poll-on-lib-dem-leadership-ed-davey-is-a-country-mile-ahead-with-caveats-galore-63298.html
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    Real class from the speaker

    What an improvement

    "All yours Eleanor - good luck!"

    Such a refreshing change!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191
    Like his style and tone.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Just got my car filled up with petrol as you should always do on budget day mornings. Given the price has been moving downward this seems an obvious choice for an increase.

    A group called Fairfuel did a poll that showed fuel tax increases are about as popular as amnesties for paedophiles.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,569
    Chancellor up and speaking.

    Starts with the virus.
  • Looks completely different to me, depending upon what you mean by "trans rights"?

    If you mean people like women's rights activists including some notable names on this site the arguments look nothing like "please think of the children"
    Introducing kids to drag queens attracted a few adverse comments did it not?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352

    SNP MPs hate being called the "Scottish Nationalist Party" don't they? :grin:

    I notice you lot aren't too keen on being called nationalists either, proud patriots (of whichever country it happens to be today) that you are.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Looks completely different to me, depending upon what you mean by "trans rights"?

    If you mean people like women's rights activists including some notable names on this site the arguments look nothing like "please think of the children"
    The "trans people in women's changing rooms" chat is identical to "why Lesbians shouldn't be allowed in women's changing rooms" chat back in the day.

    It's word for word.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Introducing kids to drag queens attracted a few adverse comments did it not?
    Do you think Rishi will announce the cancellation of the Premier League season?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    Looks completely different to me, depending upon what you mean by "trans rights"?

    If you mean people like women's rights activists including some notable names on this site the arguments look nothing like "please think of the children"
    Never forget that often behind a trans-person there is a history of anguish, stigma and mental health issues and frequently alcoholism. They are people too and deserve treatment like everyone else.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Introducing kids to drag queens attracted a few adverse comments did it not?
    Yes there was some nonsense about that and I ridiculed those and said I'd be happy to have taken my own children to such an event.

    Most of the serious comments seem to be about the safety of women in women's only spaces, the effects of women in sport and other effects on women in general.

    I won't name names but certain women on this site have put some very thoughtful posts on here on this subject about their concerns and they surely shouldn't be lumped in with the "kids to drag queens" bullshit should they?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    significant but temporary impact on the UK economy.

    For a while, it will be tough.....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    Why am I nervous about this budget?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,133

    You hedge trader you! I hope you realise as a hedge trader you're the public enemy of the left now ;)
    As a LibDem, that’s nothing new.

    A fund manager once told me that I could make a good fund manager myself, and seemed somewhat disappointed that I didn’t take it as a compliment.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    Scott_xP said:
    Not needing a test doesn't rule out that he has had one....
  • Sunak impressive so far. Calm. Measured. Imagine McDonnell delivering a budget - "despite Covid now is the time to nationalise without compensation all of the pharmaceutical companies"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,569
    House listening in near silence so far.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    Release the dogs of war counter-cyclical buffer!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Never forget that often behind a trans-person there is a history of anguish, stigma and mental health issues and frequently alcoholism. They are people too and deserve treatment like everyone else.
    I 100% agree with you on that and I 100% stand by sensible trans rights and a medical approach to this matter.

    Extremists exist on both sides and are prats. The women raising concerns here are not nutters, nor are those wanting rights for trans people of either gender.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Important to keep income flowing even at a minimum level for those who are sick so Rishi's approach is correct.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,133

    Trans issues may affect 0.00001% of the population in a physical way (it is nearer 0.01% and perhaps as much as 1%)*, but it seems to have a much larger percentage of posters on here obsessing about it. As for the gutter press.....

    * (about 5,000ish GenderCertificates have been issued for those who, presumably have gone all the way. If you count cross-dressing as a trans issue then it is estimated as 5% of the male population, possibly as high as 10%)
    It’s been identified as the next hill for liberalism to capture. Those gunning for it have failed to notice that liberalism is in retreat around the world, and if they continue shooting for that hill they will find themselves surrounded.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    Universal credit and ESA significantly loosened - no need for job interviews
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,569

    Sunak impressive so far. Calm. Measured. Imagine McDonnell delivering a budget - "despite Covid now is the time to nationalise without compensation all of the pharmaceutical companies"

    Are we watching the next PM? Impressive so far.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    Gig economy workers given special measures.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    Not needing a test doesn't rule out that he has had one....

    I'd guess the chance they're telling the truth there at somewhere only marginally above zero. The key players are surely getting tested regularly, especially now testing capability has been ramped up.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    Reforms to benefits will be hard to reverse.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Are we watching the next PM? Impressive so far.
    My wallet hopes so!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,133
    If you close your eyes, doesn’t Rishi sound like a youthful Tony Blair?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    DavidL said:

    Like his style and tone.

    He's a lot better than he was in the GE. Measured, statemanlike.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191
    Brilliant move on refunding SSP.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    SMEs get a lifeline for statutory sick pay for 14 days - fully refundable by Government
  • Are we watching the next PM? Impressive so far.
    Very and only 39
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited March 2020
    Alistair said:

    The "trans people in women's changing rooms" chat is identical to "why Lesbians shouldn't be allowed in women's changing rooms" chat back in the day.

    It's word for word.
    That 'lesbians shouldn't be allowed in women's changing rooms' is a straw man if ever there was one. I never heard anyone express such an argument. Why? because lesbians are indistiguishable biologically from other women for a start.

    Trans people have penises in many cases, right?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191
    Jonathan said:

    Reforms to benefits will be hard to reverse.

    Good.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IanB2 said:

    If you close your eyes, doesn’t Rishi sound like a youthful Tony Blair?

    Although I liked Javid, he seems more confident and a better speaker than Javid was. He's certainly projecting being confident and on top of this.
  • HYUFD said:
    Might be interesting to complement that with a survey in the formerly colonised countries to explore their view on the matter.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited March 2020
    FPT
    Charles said:

    There is a group of smokers “irreconcilables” who are resistant to all anti-smoking messages. About 20% of smokers (4% of the adult population)

    I assume the concern is that if they see anti CV messages as anti-smoking they will ignore them all.
    Yes, this is my assumption too. Still, interesting that in Ireland "if you smoke, stop" is an integral part of their COVID-19 messaging (their COVID-19 website includes a call-to-action linking to their smoking cessation service) whereas in the UK it's been pretty much totally peripheral. Shows that experts applying their own judgement in the face of uncertainty can reach quite different conclusions. And doesn't necessarily mean either group has "got it wrong". My personal inclination is that there are both practical and ethical reasons to lean towards if you're the guys with the most complete evidence, best experts and therefore the best advice, be transparent and inform people what steps they can take to reduce their risks, rather than leaving them to inexpertly "judge their own risks" in a froth of misinformation and uncertainty. This doesn't apply just to smoking but a range of measures (behavioural, travel advice etc) where - while I do appreciate gvt are taking considered steps to manage information flow - us plebs are being given wishy-washier advice in situations where the gvt actually has a clearer idea than we do.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    Jonathan said:

    Reforms to benefits will be hard to reverse.

    They really won’t. This is a Conservative government with a huge majority.

    But, Universal Credit does take too long to both claim and pay so I expect that reform to stick.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076

    Is he talking about covid-19 or his Presidency?
    He's talking about that rather unpleasant smell that's just filled the room and VP Pence is trying to ignore.

    The skin around his eyes is a normal colour compared to his face which is noticeably more orange. As a "tan" in winter is a vanity choice, I find it odd that he chooses this look.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191

    Although I liked Javid, he seems more confident and a better speaker than Javid was. He's certainly projecting being confident and on top of this.
    Absolutely agree.

    Small Business rates abolished for the year!!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    Business rates abolished for cinemas, restaurants and music venues for one year
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    A billion here, a billion there soon enough you're talking real money....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Major business rates reform!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    All retail and hospitality businesses with rateable value below £51k also get 100% discount
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    edited March 2020
    That one year abolition of business rates for RV under £51k gets a big cheer
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    Blimey - 100% rates abolitions for those below threshhold. Thats a huge help to the high st.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Business rates abolished for cinemas, restaurants and music venues for one year

    Fantastic news!

    Hopefully its made permanent. Business rates should be abolished and replaced with something else.
  • Genuinely impressive stuff so far for SMEs and workers
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Are we watching the next PM? Impressive so far.
    Anybody can sound impressive when they are handing out taxpayer money to be financed by borrowing.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    A billion here, a billion there soon enough you're talking real money....

    The magic money tree is getting a damn good shake today. 2021-5 is going to be hard.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    He’s going really big on the High Street and small business here.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191
    Helicopter money now. The government thinks this is going to be really, really bad.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381

    Fantastic news!

    Hopefully its made permanent. Business rates should be abolished and replaced with something else.
    Sounds like he’s going to grasp that nettle in the autumn budget
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Alistair said:

    The "trans people in women's changing rooms" chat is identical to "why Lesbians shouldn't be allowed in women's changing rooms" chat back in the day.

    It's word for word.
    It’s a question of balancing rights between women and trans women

    Changing rooms are not particularly significant.

    Refuges matter.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    £30bn fiscal stimulus.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,191
    £30bn. Christ.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381
    £3k cash grant for small businesses even if they don’t pay rates
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    Jonathan said:

    The magic money tree is getting a damn good shake today. 2021-5 is going to be hard.
    Magic money forest.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    It’s funny, you see the language used by critics of trans rights and it is eerily similar to that which was used by critics of gay rights a few decades ago.

    Won’t someone please think of the children.

    No they aren’t.

    1. No-one sensible has - or should have - a problem with trans people having rights eg to transition and not to face discrimination etc.
    2. Given the lack of medical care and other support available to people with gender dysphoria, which undoubtedly causes them to suffer more and for longer than should be the case, this is an area which warrants additional investment.
    3. What people - mainly women - do have an issue with is the proposal to allow men to claim that they are women WITHOUT MORE - and in particular without any sort of medical diagnosis - thus allowing men to have access to women only spaces, which exist for a reason. This also impacts on all sorts of other women’s’ rights. Ignoring these is unjust and unfair.
    4. What women object to is having some men, some of whom claim to be trans, telling women what womanhood means and seeking to deny the realities of female experiences, as if womanhood is simply something that you can assert and has no objective reality.
    5. They also object to them shouting down and bullying women who ask that their views and experiences and concerns be listened to and taken into account. For centuries women have had men telling them how to behave, what they can or can’t do, what being a “lady” or “femininity” means. Now we’re being told what even being a woman means. No. just no. We have a voice and we want to be listened to too.
    6. The issue of what sort of medical treatment or care should be given to under-age children who claim to be suffering from gender dysphoria is a complex one, in which expert medical advice and a great deal of thought is needed, not least because the consequences of taking premature and irreversible action are so serious and long-lasting. There is some concern that some may be pushing for children to be allowed to make such decisions without such advice or thought, merely to prove some ideological point. If so, that is highly irresponsible and dangerous and careless of the best interests of the children concerned.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352
    In walking and chewing gum at the same time news, it seems that Govey can't do anything else while smirking self-satisfiedly. That doesn't leave him a lot of time for doing anything else.

    https://twitter.com/Alain_Tolhurst/status/1237700971553263619?s=20
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    DavidL said:

    Helicopter money now. The government thinks this is going to be really, really bad.

    £7 billion here....£18billion there....in total £30 billion......
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    Helicopter money now. The government thinks this is going to be really, really bad.

    The effect of this virus on the economy this year will ultimately be far greater than it will on morbidity this year.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,818
    Gap in the market for a party that believes in sound money and sensible management of the public finances.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,550
    edited March 2020
    Fire up the Quattro printing presses....

    McDonnell and Co must be sitting there thinking if only we won the election we could have done this, nationalized everything and nobody would complain.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,381

    Fantastic news!

    Hopefully its made permanent. Business rates should be abolished and replaced with something else.
    Sounds like he’s going to grasp that nettle in the autumn budget
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    Gap in the market for a party that believes in sound money and sensible management of the public finances.

    Sound money and sensible management of the public finances is what you do outside of emergencies.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    The effect of this virus on the economy this year will ultimately be far greater than it will on morbidity this year.
    Exactly the point that Trump is trying to make.
This discussion has been closed.