I just don't know what to say about the idiot behaviour on display. It was like yesterday the footage of big queues of people waiting to get refunds for their lift passes in Italy. What is more important, you health or 200 euro you spent on a lift pass (and the fact you are there in the first place suggests that amount of money is peanuts to you).
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
I think those that get infected generate antibodies which makes them immune.
Follow the Chief Medical Officer is my advice, CMO says no hand shaking now so that is a no.
So the virus mutated in the last few days?? A week ago it could not be transmitted by handshaking, but now it can?
Got it. Good advice. You should perhaps tell Public Health England about this mutation, tho.
If 1 person in the world had the virus should we all stop shaking hands? No If 90% of the world have the virus should we all stop shaking hands? Yes Somewhere in between there is therefore a cross over point.
It is not exact or known but the job of the CMO to decide where it is. Ill take their advice gladly and with thanks for the difficult job they are doing.
There's not just raw percentages but also context. Would you handshake...
Someone just back from holiday in a high-risk area? (Additional risk to you)
Someone elderly, a smoker, or with chronic ill-health? (Additional risk to them)
Someone who has a lot of contact with high-risk groups? (Additional risk to those people if you spread it to your contact; also a greater risk to you if your contact might have have acquired it from them)
Someone who shakes an awful lot of hands? (Again, higher risk to you, but also to the people your contact will shake hands with in the near future if you turn out to have infected them)
Someone mission-critical or business-critical? (Additional risk to your mission/business if one of you infects the other)
So to a certain extent we have to use guidance to assess our own risks. But certain groups might get different guidance (MPs live in a fairly close network with top decision-makers and advisers, one might think they'd be told to cut down on the hand-shaking sooner than the rest of us). Moreover if handshakes are not strictly necessary, do their benefits really outweigh risks for any of us at this time? That might at least reduce the threshold at which "stop handshaking" becomes worthwhile advice, to a lower level than more harsh actions like "remain at home where possible".
Really? I mean we have a criminal justice system that is creaking under a mountain of historic sex cases, one even involving a former FM. The man is dead for goodness sake. What a waste of time.
No desire to discover who actually bombed the plane?
I've no doubt at all that the Libyans were involved and that the accused were active members of the Libyan secret service at the time. Their exact role is frankly less important now. Others may have been involved as well but that does not make Libya innocent.
Iranian revenge for the Yanks shooting down Flight 655 five months earlier.
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
I think those that get infected generate antibodies which makes them immune.
Haven't there been cases of people getting it twice? But perhaps that was another strain or something.
HOw about the number of people who are a bit smug about having an empire behind closed doors, but aren't about to admit that to a smart8rse researcher like you?
Lol @ the figures for Belgium. How the hell can anyone in their right mind be proud of what Leopold did in Africa.
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
I think those that get infected generate antibodies which makes them immune.
Haven't there been cases of people getting it twice? But perhaps that was another strain or something.
No, there are no properly documented cases of re-infection.
Has anyone seen any "official" data about corona virus links with smoking and/ or air pollution?
Or vaping?
Can't find it now but IanB2 linked or referred to a belief in China that the skew to males in deaths is entirely explained by relatively heavier smoking by Chinese men. Doubt anyone has had time to boil it down to official stats though.
PS Me: if MERS is from Saudi Arabia, that kinda screws the theory that coronaviruses don't like the heat
Everyone: Yeah man, but it's a dry heat.
It’s on CNN, the analysis interview with the renowned epidemiologist
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
I think those that get infected generate antibodies which makes them immune.
Haven't there been cases of people getting it twice? But perhaps that was another strain or something.
No, there are no properly documented cases of re-infection.
Thanks. It was more fake news no doubt!
If the body is able to create antibodies, surely that makes a vaccine much easier?
Really? I mean we have a criminal justice system that is creaking under a mountain of historic sex cases, one even involving a former FM. The man is dead for goodness sake. What a waste of time.
No desire to discover who actually bombed the plane?
I've no doubt at all that the Libyans were involved and that the accused were active members of the Libyan secret service at the time. Their exact role is frankly less important now. Others may have been involved as well but that does not make Libya innocent.
Without going all conspiracy nut I found the key evidence pretty flimsy. A highly, highly unreliable eye witness and the supposedly damning circuit board not matching.
I don't rule out them being involved but the supposed delivery of the bomb seems utterly convoluted, especially when there was a know terror cell in Germany making bombs of exactly the type that was used.
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
I think those that get infected generate antibodies which makes them immune.
Haven't there been cases of people getting it twice? But perhaps that was another strain or something.
There were some doubts about those reports expressed by i.a. @Foxy several days ago iirc.
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
You misunderstand herd immunity.
People who are positive for the virus and then properly recover are immune to being reinfected, in the sense that, if the virus gets back into the body, the immune system will attack it straight away and they will neither get symptoms nor pass it on. Once around 80% of the the population are immune (beacuse they were positive) then the spread of the disease drops dramatically (80% is not a magic number 90% is much better than 80%). The net result is that if you are still negative then the chances of getting the virus in the next month are much reduced.
HOw about the number of people who are a bit smug about having an empire behind closed doors, but aren't about to admit that to a smart8rse researcher like you?
Lol @ the figures for Belgium. How the hell can anyone in their right mind be proud of what Leopold did in Africa.
Or France in Vietnam ?
Made our retreat from Empire look the height of woke humanitarianism.
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
I think those that get infected generate antibodies which makes them immune.
Haven't there been cases of people getting it twice? But perhaps that was another strain or something.
No, there are no properly documented cases of re-infection.
Thanks. It was more fake news no doubt!
If the body is able to create antibodies, surely that makes a vaccine much easier?
Again it is a misunderstanding rather than fake news.
With most viral infections you can get a relapse. You think you have recovered but you have not totally recovered. The virus strikes back and you have a relapse. It is the same infection making you ill twice, not catching the virus twice.
Aside from triage, the policy wrt age should be that older people self isolate as far as possible, and no particular exhortation be addressed to those born after about 1960 other than hand-washing. The more herd immunity they build up with their functioning immune systems the better for everyone.
Is there any herd immunity? I thought no one was immune from it.
I think those that get infected generate antibodies which makes them immune.
Haven't there been cases of people getting it twice? But perhaps that was another strain or something.
No, there are no properly documented cases of re-infection.
Thanks. It was more fake news no doubt!
If the body is able to create antibodies, surely that makes a vaccine much easier?
Yes, but a vaccine has to get the body to produce the right antibodies which will fully neutralise the virus. There is, for example, a phenomenon called ADE which can actually make things worse... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement
Follow the Chief Medical Officer is my advice, CMO says no hand shaking now so that is a no.
So the virus mutated in the last few days?? A week ago it could not be transmitted by handshaking, but now it can?
Got it. Good advice. You should perhaps tell Public Health England about this mutation, tho.
If 1 person in the world had the virus should we all stop shaking hands? No If 90% of the world have the virus should we all stop shaking hands? Yes Somewhere in between there is therefore a cross over point.
It is not exact or known but the job of the CMO to decide where it is. Ill take their advice gladly and with thanks for the difficult job they are doing.
There's not just raw percentages but also context. Would you handshake...
Someone just back from holiday in a high-risk area? (Additional risk to you)
Someone elderly, a smoker, or with chronic ill-health? (Additional risk to them)
Someone who has a lot of contact with high-risk groups? (Additional risk to those people if you spread it to your contact; also a greater risk to you if your contact might have have acquired it from them)
Someone who shakes an awful lot of hands? (Again, higher risk to you, but also to the people your contact will shake hands with in the near future if you turn out to have infected them)
Someone mission-critical or business-critical? (Additional risk to your mission/business if one of you infects the other)
So to a certain extent we have to use guidance to assess our own risks. But certain groups might get different guidance (MPs live in a fairly close network with top decision-makers and advisers, one might think they'd be told to cut down on the hand-shaking sooner than the rest of us). Moreover if handshakes are not strictly necessary, do their benefits really outweigh risks for any of us at this time? That might at least reduce the threshold at which "stop handshaking" becomes worthwhile advice, to a lower level than more harsh actions like "remain at home where possible".
All good points and questions. Obviously hand shaking is not mandatory and has little benefit beyond maintaining social norms. Its up to us to do is what is right for us and for some that will mean additional precautions. But the stop handshake message should be driven by the CMO rather than twitter.
"Cancel everything now" is the advice. Hopefully Hancock will go at least some of the way down that path at 7pm tonight.
Highly irresponsible of Liverpool to continue with a normal game against Atletico Madrid tonight in the existing circumstances. Don't know how many Madrid fans will be arriving but sounds really dumb to me. At the very least it should be behind closed doors
I disagree. 1-0 down after the away leg which wasn't behind closed doors, entirely appropriate to have the home crowd for the second leg.
As Bill Shankly said: "Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."
Sadly I think Liverpool's decision probably was taken on the basis of what worked best for them as a football club. Let's see how it looks if and when they start tracking infection on Merseyside to football fans from Madrid.
After that budget, what do the Tories stand for and believe in? It does seem as if the left - if not Labour - has won the economic argument completely.
I'm not sure how much of this is left/right. In capitalism you invest into things that deliver a return on investment. All the vast billions to be thrown at infrastructure will provide a return in the short term as it gives people jobs and in the long term as it boosts economic output.
Where politicians got lost for a decade was in thinking that investment was the same as subsidy. It is not. For a decade we had people moaning about lack if stuff and the crumbling nature of what we had, yet every time someone suggested spending the right said "who will pay for it" and the left said "blame greedy elites".
This was a *good* budget. Short term relief for disruption. Medium term heavy investment to make the economy stronger. Longer term return to growth. Is anyone really arguing against money for road / rail / broadband / schools / hospitals because borrowing? Its borrowed in Sterling. Which we've just made almost free to borrow and we print. Spend now. Invest now. Benefit later.
Yep, fair comment. With full employment, though, who does all the extra building?
We are a long way from full employment in the sense of the 1950s and 1960s - many in work are underemployed.
HOw about the number of people who are a bit smug about having an empire behind closed doors, but aren't about to admit that to a smart8rse researcher like you?
Lol @ the figures for Belgium. How the hell can anyone in their right mind be proud of what Leopold did in Africa.
Or France in Vietnam ?
Made our retreat from Empire look the height of woke humanitarianism.
People like the smell of their own farts. The British Empire was actually the biggest fart of all so why not look at the British figures first, before pointing fingers at others.
Comments
Someone just back from holiday in a high-risk area? (Additional risk to you)
Someone elderly, a smoker, or with chronic ill-health? (Additional risk to them)
Someone who has a lot of contact with high-risk groups? (Additional risk to those people if you spread it to your contact; also a greater risk to you if your contact might have have acquired it from them)
Someone who shakes an awful lot of hands? (Again, higher risk to you, but also to the people your contact will shake hands with in the near future if you turn out to have infected them)
Someone mission-critical or business-critical? (Additional risk to your mission/business if one of you infects the other)
So to a certain extent we have to use guidance to assess our own risks. But certain groups might get different guidance (MPs live in a fairly close network with top decision-makers and advisers, one might think they'd be told to cut down on the hand-shaking sooner than the rest of us). Moreover if handshakes are not strictly necessary, do their benefits really outweigh risks for any of us at this time? That might at least reduce the threshold at which "stop handshaking" becomes worthwhile advice, to a lower level than more harsh actions like "remain at home where possible".
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1237756660606787585?s=20
If the body is able to create antibodies, surely that makes a vaccine much easier?
I don't rule out them being involved but the supposed delivery of the bomb seems utterly convoluted, especially when there was a know terror cell in Germany making bombs of exactly the type that was used.
People who are positive for the virus and then properly recover are immune to being reinfected, in the sense that, if the virus gets back into the body, the immune system will attack it straight away and they will neither get symptoms nor pass it on. Once around 80% of the the population are immune (beacuse they were positive) then the spread of the disease drops dramatically (80% is not a magic number 90% is much better than 80%). The net result is that if you are still negative then the chances of getting the virus in the next month are much reduced.
Made our retreat from Empire look the height of woke humanitarianism.
With most viral infections you can get a relapse. You think you have recovered but you have not totally recovered. The virus strikes back and you have a relapse. It is the same infection making you ill twice, not catching the virus twice.
There is, for example, a phenomenon called ADE which can actually make things worse...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement