Labour are stupid. Without an alternative plan and the numbers to deliver if, this is all pointless. Boris will just go round the country ramping up hatred and division in his pretend GE campaign.
Jezza is never going to be able to become PM and bring about his Marxist revolution if he's not willing to risk an election.
I'm sure after a period of Zen-like reflection and kumbaya on his allotment over the weekend he'll have second thoughts.
Labour are stupid. Without an alternative plan and the numbers to deliver if, this is all pointless. Boris will just go round the country ramping up hatred and division in his pretend GE campaign.
Jezza is never going to be able to become PM and bring about his Marxist revolution if he's not willing to risk an election.
I'm sure after a period of Zen-like reflection and kumbaya on his allotment over the weekend he'll have second thoughts.
I have to say I was mightily confused this morning when on the radio there was a left wing Corbynite complaining that Dom Cummings was trying to rip up the system and rebuild it. Apparently doing such a thing was outrageous.
Labour are stupid. Without an alternative plan and the numbers to deliver if, this is all pointless. Boris will just go round the country ramping up hatred and division in his pretend GE campaign.
Jezza is never going to be able to become PM and bring about his Marxist revolution if he's not willing to risk an election.
I'm sure after a period of Zen-like reflection and kumbaya on his allotment over the weekend he'll have second thoughts.
I am not sure he is allowed independent thoughts - he is told what to do by those manipulating him for their own ends
So opposition stop a GE, Boris pulls deal, therefore no deal, no GE then what
You won't like hearing this, but the onus is on Boris to come up with a plan. He is our Prime Minister, and as frustrating as it is that the opposition won't remove him or let him remove himself (or rather remove his party) from power, while he is PM he has a duty to at least try to govern.
He cannot just squat there in a huff saying the opposition are a load of gits. No matter how right he could be, two wrongs don't make a right, we all learn that as children, and I am sure very few of us think pettily refusing to play because he is denied an election is a reasonable thing to do, even if we think an election should have been granted.
I am not sure the opposition can go bigly on Boris broken promise on Brexit...when they all have their own broken promises if they reject this GE opportunity.
Anyway, enough of this nonsense (as PP would say) and we've all forgotten the Thuringia Landtag election this weekend.
Latest polls show the ruling Linke with 28% and AfD on 24% with the CDU well down on 24%. As we all know, the CDU topped the poll in the last State election but it was a LInke/SPD/Green coalition which took over with a bare majority of 46 seats in the 91 seat Landtag.
The polls suggest the ruling coalition will lose its majority as the SPD is down on last time but it seems unlikely the CDU and AfD will join forces so the key may be whether the FDP will break into the Landtag as the polls have them very close to the 5% threshold (last time they only got 2.5%).
Just a quick word on Canada after Monday's election. Trudeau may not have kept his majority but his losses were fewer than many had expected because of the strong Liberal performance in Ontario. In 2015, the Liberals won 80 seats, the Conservatives 33 and the NDP 8 but this time the Liberals won 79, the Conservatives 36 and the NDP 6. For all the huge Conservative vote on the prairies Ontario and Quebec failed to match that and that's why Scheer failed.
Half of Trudeau's MPs are from Ontario with another 35 from Quebec and holding that firewall kept Trudeau in power.
That is strangely interesting, @stodge , thank you.
I am not sure the opposition can go bigly on Boris broken promise on Brexit...when they all have their own broken promises if they reject this GE opportunity.
there is no such word as 'bigly'
And if there is I want to steal it from you!
Edit: Ok, so turns out there is. I still want to snap up the copyright.
I am not sure the opposition can go bigly on Boris broken promise on Brexit...when they all have their own broken promises if they reject this GE opportunity.
So opposition stop a GE, Boris pulls deal, therefore no deal, no GE then what
You won't like hearing this, but the onus is on Boris to come up with a plan. He is our Prime Minister, and as frustrating as it is that the opposition won't remove him or let him remove himself (or rather remove his party) from power, while he is PM he has a duty to at least try to govern.
He cannot just squat there in a huff saying the opposition are a load of gits. No matter how right he could be, two wrongs don't make a right, we all learn that as children, and I am sure very few of us think pettily refusing to play because he is denied an election is a reasonable thing to do, even if we think an election should have been granted.
If he says he won't reactivate the WAIB despite having a majority for it and time for it, then he will have gone from leaving on 31 October "do or die" to blocking Brexit when it can be achieved in only a few weeks. That's not tenable.
If ever there was a good reason for the EU to offer a shorter date than 31 January, it would be seeing the Commons reject the option of a GE. If they reject that, and a referendum would take even longer, then it stands to reason the Commons is not really asking for time to do either of those things, so should be offered a shorter one.
It doesn't even cut of any option, since if the Commons changes its mind it can do another Benn Act to get an extension again even if it doesn't change PM.
So opposition stop a GE, Boris pulls deal, therefore no deal, no GE then what
You won't like hearing this, but the onus is on Boris to come up with a plan. He is our Prime Minister, and as frustrating as it is that the opposition won't remove him or let him remove himself (or rather remove his party) from power, while he is PM he has a duty to at least try to govern.
He cannot just squat there in a huff saying the opposition are a load of gits. No matter how right he could be, two wrongs don't make a right, we all learn that as children, and I am sure very few of us think pettily refusing to play because he is denied an election is a reasonable thing to do, even if we think an election should have been granted.
If he says he won't reactivate the WAIB despite having a majority for it and time for it, then he will have gone from leaving on 31 October "do or die" to blocking Brexit when it can be achieved in only a few weeks. That's not tenable.
And yet he's left no ambiguity about it. Could be lying, but that hardly bodes well on getting it passed, or he'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into consider his own damn bill.
I think the idea we'll get to first week of november, see if there's any dip in the polls for the Tories, and then the opposition will strike, make sense.
The simplest way out of this would be for Boris to put his deal to a referendum vote.
Works for me, but that's only a way out for Remain, let's not kid ourselves. Would be closer than Mays' deal though.
At least it ends it. If Boris' deal is as good as he says it is, he will win and it will have a bulletproof mandate. We can then pass it and have an election to choose between visions for what happens next.
Sky reporting Jeremy Corbyn is saying labour will only back a GE when no deal is off the table and Sky went onto to say that should happen when the EU rules tomorrow
So as ever with Brexit, Corbyn has not said no and to be honest, as I said earlier, why would he do that before hearing from the EU
And I expect this will now be the holding pattern and of course mps and I expect mps are likely to wake up to some very angry newspaper headlines tomorrom morning
To be honest I do not see how any of this damages Boris
I am not sure the opposition can go bigly on Boris broken promise on Brexit...when they all have their own broken promises if they reject this GE opportunity.
there is no such word as 'bigly'
And if there is I want to steal it from you!
You have to steal it from Trump first...
Yeah but he's outsmarted us. It is a word.
I guess we have to conclude that Trump is either lucky in a big way, wise, or god-given.
I'm really quite fucked-up on my conclusion here.
Trump has painted me into an intellectual corner that I can't honestely get out of.
For a man who has stated time after time that he wants an election, Corbyn is doing everything to appear frit of one
It's almost as if he's such a coward that he prefers to leave the Evil Tories in power than dare to face them in an election.
LIke I said earlier, interesting place Corbynism has brought us to!
Er... I think you meant to say "... leave the Evil Tories in office..."
They are certainly not in power.
You keep telling yourself that - is this is what the Corbyn Project promised? Labour being so unelectable that their only hope is to keep the Tories in charge so that Labour doesn't get beaten even more badly? I don't remember the Stupid Communist pushing that line in his leadership campaigns!
For a man who has stated time after time that he wants an election, Corbyn is doing everything to appear frit of one
It's almost as if he's such a coward that he prefers to leave the Evil Tories in power than dare to face them in an election.
LIke I said earlier, interesting place Corbynism has brought us to!
Let’s stop this bullshit you go for a GE if it’s in you’re interests At the moment only the Labour Party think it’s not in their interest so no matter how many keep calling out out coward etc they don’t need to agree and as such they are in a position to deny an election. Wait for events let him (Al) screw up it can’t get any worse they can sit it out to 2022
For a man who has stated time after time that he wants an election, Corbyn is doing everything to appear frit of one
It's almost as if he's such a coward that he prefers to leave the Evil Tories in power than dare to face them in an election.
LIke I said earlier, interesting place Corbynism has brought us to!
Let’s stop this bullshit you go for a GE if it’s in you’re interests At the moment only the Labour Party think it’s not in their interest so no matter how many keep calling out out coward etc they don’t need to agree and as such they are in a position to deny an election. Wait for events let him (Al) screw up it can’t get any worse they can sit it out to 2022
Sit it out to 2022?! Deliberately ensure a Tory Government for years to come? This is cowardice of epic, historic proportions. Never in the history of British politics has one party cowered before another like Corbynite Labour has before Boris' Conservatives!
Why doesn't Boris resign and VoNC whoever comes after him if he wants and election.
Why should he. He gets stronger as mps refuse to have a GE
Resigning is giving up and he will not give up
Not half an hour ago you appeared flummoxed about what Boris will do if he does not get to have his GE - so if it does indeed make him stronger, what will be do with that strength?
Just listened to Corbyn live on Sky saying to wait for the EU tomorrow but if they give an extension taking no deal off the table they will vote for the GE
Lewis Goodall just said that there is a really heated battle in labour and it is a bloodbath
Just listened to Corbyn live on Sky saying to wait for the EU tomorrow but if they give an extension taking no deal off the table they will vote for the GE
Lewis Goodall just said that there is a really heated battle in labour and it is a bloodbath
Why doesn't Boris resign and VoNC whoever comes after him if he wants and election.
Why should he. He gets stronger as mps refuse to have a GE
Resigning is giving up and he will not give up
Not half an hour ago you appeared flummoxed about what Boris will do if he does not get to have his GE - so if it does indeed make him stronger, what will be do with that strength?
Just listened to Corbyn live on Sky saying to wait for the EU tomorrow but if they give an extension taking no deal off the table they will vote for the GE
Lewis Goodall just said that there is a really heated battle in labour and it is a bloodbath
Looks like this is very fluid.
We have a united conservative party and broken opposition
Why doesn't Boris resign and VoNC whoever comes after him if he wants and election.
Why should he. He gets stronger as mps refuse to have a GE
Resigning is giving up and he will not give up
Not half an hour ago you appeared flummoxed about what Boris will do if he does not get to have his GE - so if it does indeed make him stronger, what will be do with that strength?
Just listened to Corbyn live on Sky saying to wait for the EU tomorrow but if they give an extension taking no deal off the table they will vote for the GE
Lewis Goodall just said that there is a really heated battle in labour and it is a bloodbath
Looks like this is very fluid.
We have a united conservative party and broken opposition
You really don't have a united Conservative party with two ex chancellors without the whip.
Just listened to Corbyn live on Sky saying to wait for the EU tomorrow but if they give an extension taking no deal off the table they will vote for the GE
Lewis Goodall just said that there is a really heated battle in labour and it is a bloodbath
Looks like this is very fluid.
We have a united conservative party and broken opposition
You really don't have a united Conservative party with two ex chancellors without the whip.
They have both chosen to take other career paths. So be it.
For a man who has stated time after time that he wants an election, Corbyn is doing everything to appear frit of one
It's almost as if he's such a coward that he prefers to leave the Evil Tories in power than dare to face them in an election.
LIke I said earlier, interesting place Corbynism has brought us to!
Let’s stop this bullshit you go for a GE if it’s in you’re interests At the moment only the Labour Party think it’s not in their interest so no matter how many keep calling out out coward etc they don’t need to agree and as such they are in a position to deny an election. Wait for events let him (Al) screw up it can’t get any worse they can sit it out to 2022
Sit it out to 2022?! Deliberately ensure a Tory Government for years to come? This is cowardice of epic, historic proportions. Never in the history of British politics has one party cowered before another like Corbynite Labour has before Boris' Conservatives!
All I was suggesting is labour best hope is the equivalent of WW 3 breaks out rather than give the buffoon what he wants. You really need to look at this from a range of perspectives not just your parties best prospects. I’ve posted that it in all parties, other than labour to have a quick GE but just because you want one does not justify why they don’t. Info I was invested in the Labour Party I would play the long game hope Johnson fucks up and replace the leader. My, not insignificant, investments which have no financial return are for another outcome but they have no obligation to give the GE you want when the hold all the cards
For a man who has stated time after time that he wants an election, Corbyn is doing everything to appear frit of one
It's almost as if he's such a coward that he prefers to leave the Evil Tories in power than dare to face them in an election.
LIke I said earlier, interesting place Corbynism has brought us to!
Let’s stop this bullshit you go for a GE if it’s in you’re interests At the moment only the Labour Party think it’s not in their interest so no matter how many keep calling out out coward etc they don’t need to agree and as such they are in a position to deny an election. Wait for events let him (Al) screw up it can’t get any worse they can sit it out to 2022
The moronic “coward” posts are boring. The whole point of the FTPA is precisely to give the sitting government the unfair advantage of choosing the timing of an election. Of course the Tories would avoid one were the roles reversed.
We need an election or we need the opposition to install a new Prime Minister. The continuation of Johnson's government in its present form is shockingly bad for good governance in this country.
At least if he won a majority he would be able to implement his policies and then be held accountable for them at the election afterwards.
Politics is not a game. The Opposition need to act with seriousness.
For a man who has stated time after time that he wants an election, Corbyn is doing everything to appear frit of one
It's almost as if he's such a coward that he prefers to leave the Evil Tories in power than dare to face them in an election.
LIke I said earlier, interesting place Corbynism has brought us to!
Let’s stop this bullshit you go for a GE if it’s in you’re interests At the moment only the Labour Party think it’s not in their interest so no matter how many keep calling out out coward etc they don’t need to agree and as such they are in a position to deny an election. Wait for events let him (Al) screw up it can’t get any worse they can sit it out to 2022
It does raise the question again as to why Corbyn went along with Theresa May's election plans in April 2017!
The FTPA was designed to fetter the discretion of Governments to time an election to their own advantage. Quite why people appear to think that it is incumbent on the opposition to assist this Government in overcoming such an impediment is beyond me. Politically and morally, take a negative view, sure, be my guest, but this is legislation passed by the LDs and Cons being used by Lab as it was meant to be used. Anyone who says that the Tories would not do the same in this situation is being wilfully obtuse. They had two years of majority government to repeal it if they didn’t like it - but didn’t.
Comments
I'm sure after a period of Zen-like reflection and kumbaya on his allotment over the weekend he'll have second thoughts.
LIke I said earlier, interesting place Corbynism has brought us to!
He cannot just squat there in a huff saying the opposition are a load of gits. No matter how right he could be, two wrongs don't make a right, we all learn that as children, and I am sure very few of us think pettily refusing to play because he is denied an election is a reasonable thing to do, even if we think an election should have been granted.
And if there is I want to steal it from you!
Edit: Ok, so turns out there is. I still want to snap up the copyright.
If they don’t use the FTPA .
I just know what’s going to happen with an election well into December . There’s bound to be some severe weather which will cause mayhem .
Even though the automatic further extension kicks in after November 15 th. He can say look we could have been out by then .
It also gives Macron something aswell.
It doesn't even cut of any option, since if the Commons changes its mind it can do another Benn Act to get an extension again even if it doesn't change PM.
I think the idea we'll get to first week of november, see if there's any dip in the polls for the Tories, and then the opposition will strike, make sense.
59% of Leavers in Scotland believe the breakup of the UK would be worth it to take back control via Brexit.
Just let that one settle in. Just think about that for a moment.
I'm going to dig in further:
https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/1709008-future-of-england-survey-reveals-public-attitudes-towards-brexit-and-the-union
You did this, Brexiters. You.
And fuck it, I'm emigrating.
So as ever with Brexit, Corbyn has not said no and to be honest, as I said earlier, why would he do that before hearing from the EU
And I expect this will now be the holding pattern and of course mps and I expect mps are likely to wake up to some very angry newspaper headlines tomorrom morning
To be honest I do not see how any of this damages Boris
They are certainly not in power.
I guess we have to conclude that Trump is either lucky in a big way, wise, or god-given.
I'm really quite fucked-up on my conclusion here.
Trump has painted me into an intellectual corner that I can't honestely get out of.
Weird!
Resigning is giving up and he will not give up
At the moment only the Labour Party think it’s not in their interest so no matter how many keep calling out out coward etc they don’t need to agree and as such they are in a position to deny an election. Wait for events let him (Al) screw up it can’t get any worse they can sit it out to 2022
Lewis Goodall just said that there is a really heated battle in labour and it is a bloodbath
LETWINED
The big number is made up by 'I see it as a risk but a risk worth tolerating to..'
Very different.
At least if he won a majority he would be able to implement his policies and then be held accountable for them at the election afterwards.
Politics is not a game. The Opposition need to act with seriousness.