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The press are mightily complicit in keeping the news and images of millions (out of what, 64 million - so well over 3% of the population) starving on the streets.CarlottaVance said:
I think we can add 'Prorogation Derangement Syndrome' to 'Brexit Derangement Syndrome'....KentRising said:
* There should be at least one image of a horse-drawn cart with a municipal worker ringing a bell shouting "Bring out your dead!"0 -
Just to annoy @Byronic, the anti-prorogation petition has now passed 500,000.0
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Today has created a crack in the rock that is the monarchy.kle4 said:
By you, an impartial observer?TheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
That crack may be nothing or it may grow into something that destroys it. However that crack really shouldn't have been allowed to be created.0 -
That is very much my perception as well. I frankly did not expect this degree of ruthlessness from Boris. He is playing for keeps, that's for sure. It does smack of what we know of Cummings. The change since May was deposed is very marked.Big_G_NorthWales said:I just get the feeling that Boris, and more likely Cummings, are running rings around their opponents who seem to be in total fury, probably as they cannot be sure how to stop him
Boris has certainly set the agenda and I just want to see his opponents table a vonc next week and take it from there.
In the absence of that they are all anger and no plan0 -
Exactly. Calling the Queen out isn’t the answer here. The Queen is doing the constitutionally proper thing of following the recommendation of her government. We do not know whether she exercised her right to warn the government against this. No matter, she is still bound to accept their request if they insist.Nigelb said:
There is an element of truth in that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The one thing the Queen has is enormous goodwill in the Country and admiration far beyond any of our useless mps.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
Attacking the Queen will be counter productive in the public at large
And I say that as a republican who has come to admire the Queen, not so Charles and the rest
The constitution requires her to be pro whichever rogue happens to be occupying the office of PM.
And the current occupant is an absolute pro rogue.
If people aren’t happy with the way the Queen was activated today, then they’re not happy with the way our constitution works, which is a perfectly legitimate position to take. What isn’t, I’d argue, is that idea the Queen has caused some kind of unconstitutional outrage. She would have been acting against precedent if she’d blocked the prorogation over the advice of the government.0 -
https://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/1166744263121657859?s=20TheScreamingEagles said:
Look at that YouGov poll, she will be seen as complicit.kle4 said:
By you, an impartial observer?TheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
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ya bollox eaglesTheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
If No Deal is as bad as feared then support for the monarchy will collapse whilst the Queen sits in one of her many palaces whilst her people suffer.
She is our Marie Antoinette, 'let them eat sovereignty' she said today.
in my younger more opinionated days like you I was minded for an elected head of state. Then New Labour showed me the bags of shit I could have,
really you should learn to appreciate what youve got, the alternatives are shit sandwiches with an excrement side salad.1 -
They do more than just supply entertainment. One or two even entertains and do not discriminate necessarily with regard to age !MikeL said:If the Queen has no scope for taking any alternative action / taking any decisions whatsoever it does rather beg the question of what is the point of having her as part of tbe process?
Let alone all the rest of the Royal Family.
It's a heck of an expensive operation just to have some people to promote charities and supply "entertainment" for the media.
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I am genuinely amazed at the number of people expressing shock that the Queen does not just ignore her PM. I'm totally against what Boris has done, but how are people amazed that the Queen does not truly make a judgement call on these things? Do they bemoan that she has never refused royal assent?
Fair play to Republicans who already back that stance and dont like how it works, but seriously people here did not realise the Queen does not exercise all theoretical power?0 -
Depends how many Tories want to end their careers by voting in favour of the motion. I think that is uncertain but the Tory party in the next Parliament will not look like this one, that's for sure.moonshine said:Odds on a successful pre Brexit VONC now? One assumes away from the bluster, the same logic that said last week this would fail still stands?
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When was the last time a thread passed 1,000 posts?0
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Quite.numbertwelve said:
Exactly. Calling the Queen out isn’t the answer here. The Queen is doing the constitutionally proper thing of following the recommendation of her government. We do not know whether she exercised her right to warn the government against this. No matter, she is still bound to accept their request if they insist.Nigelb said:
There is an element of truth in that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The one thing the Queen has is enormous goodwill in the Country and admiration far beyond any of our useless mps.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
Attacking the Queen will be counter productive in the public at large
And I say that as a republican who has come to admire the Queen, not so Charles and the rest
The constitution requires her to be pro whichever rogue happens to be occupying the office of PM.
And the current occupant is an absolute pro rogue.
If people aren’t happy with the way the Queen was activated today, then they’re not happy with the way our constitution works, which is a perfectly legitimate position to take. What isn’t, I’d argue, is that idea the Queen has caused some kind of unconstitutional outrage. She would have been acting against precedent if she’d blocked the prorogation over the advice of the government.
The outrage is the arse currently seated in No.10.0 -
Not correct. Parliament could have cancelled recess and sat during the conferences. This was discussed at the start of the week. Now it can't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And it does not mention that parliament is in conference recess for three weeks anywayMikeL said:YouGov question is potentially a bit misleading as some people may well get the impression that Parliament will not meet until after Brexit Day.
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I think that the Queen will be seriously unhappy to have been dragged into this and I suspect the PM will be told that in no uncertain terms. But it is not her fault, the fault lies with Boris.kle4 said:I am genuinely amazed at the number of people expressing shock that the Queen does not just ignore her PM. I'm totally against what Boris has done, but how are people amazed that the Queen does not truly make a judgement call on these things? Do they bemoan that she has never refused royal assent?
Fair play to Republicans who already back that stance and dont like how it works, but seriously people here did not realise the Queen does not exercise all theoretical power?0 -
You mean Prince Charles? I'd sooner eat a Hawaiian pizza.Alanbrooke said:
ya bollox eaglesTheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
If No Deal is as bad as feared then support for the monarchy will collapse whilst the Queen sits in one of her many palaces whilst her people suffer.
She is our Marie Antoinette, 'let them eat sovereignty' she said today.
in my younger more opinionated days like you I was minded for an elected head of state. Then New Labour showed me the bags of shit I could have,
really you should learn to appreciate what youve got, the alternatives are shit sandwiches with an excrement side salad.0 -
Buzzfeed article has the point re the Lords.
Legislation can easily be blocked for several days by Peers laying down hundreds of amendments - each amendment can be made to take 35 minutes minimum - vote on debate closure (15 mins), vote on amendment itself (15 mins), plus say 5 mins for proposer, stop and start etc.0 -
But they're "Her Majesty's courts", I think this is - now it has been 'approved' by Her Majesty outwith their scope to rule on.AlastairMeeks said:
Those tweets won't age well if the courts strike the prorogation down.CarlottaVance said:0 -
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She sacked Gough Whitlam, she should have sacked Boris Johnson.DavidL said:
I think that the Queen will be seriously unhappy to have been dragged into this and I suspect the PM will be told that in no uncertain terms. But it is not her fault, the fault lies with Boris.kle4 said:I am genuinely amazed at the number of people expressing shock that the Queen does not just ignore her PM. I'm totally against what Boris has done, but how are people amazed that the Queen does not truly make a judgement call on these things? Do they bemoan that she has never refused royal assent?
Fair play to Republicans who already back that stance and dont like how it works, but seriously people here did not realise the Queen does not exercise all theoretical power?0 -
So why this expensive family up to all sorts throughout the world some very unseemly ?kle4 said:I am genuinely amazed at the number of people expressing shock that the Queen does not just ignore her PM. I'm totally against what Boris has done, but how are people amazed that the Queen does not truly make a judgement call on these things? Do they bemoan that she has never refused royal assent?
Fair play to Republicans who already back that stance and dont like how it works, but seriously people here did not realise the Queen does not exercise all theoretical power?0 -
Except that isn't really true... You could see David Attenborough or Judi Dench as very good presidential figures... in fact there are loads, and if scandal continues to circulate around HRH The Duke of York and controversy around HRH the Prince of Wales it is hard to see how the popularity that HM Queen Elizabeth II has given the system can survive the next reign...Alanbrooke said:
ya bollox eaglesTheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
If No Deal is as bad as feared then support for the monarchy will collapse whilst the Queen sits in one of her many palaces whilst her people suffer.
She is our Marie Antoinette, 'let them eat sovereignty' she said today.
in my younger more opinionated days like you I was minded for an elected head of state. Then New Labour showed me the bags of shit I could have,
really you should learn to appreciate what youve got, the alternatives are shit sandwiches with an excrement side salad.
Personally I have been talking about the problems of the monarchy for a while and although I'm not an out and out republican, it is difficult to see how the monarchy survives without some significant constitutional changes... the political role being given to a crown council committee for example.0 -
Next year's contest for the Senate just got a bit more interesting...
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/28/sen-johnny-isakson-to-resign-at-end-of-the-year-14766550 -
On the advice of the Governor General.TheScreamingEagles said:
She sacked Gough Whitlam, she should have sacked Boris Johnson.DavidL said:
I think that the Queen will be seriously unhappy to have been dragged into this and I suspect the PM will be told that in no uncertain terms. But it is not her fault, the fault lies with Boris.kle4 said:I am genuinely amazed at the number of people expressing shock that the Queen does not just ignore her PM. I'm totally against what Boris has done, but how are people amazed that the Queen does not truly make a judgement call on these things? Do they bemoan that she has never refused royal assent?
Fair play to Republicans who already back that stance and dont like how it works, but seriously people here did not realise the Queen does not exercise all theoretical power?0 -
As we don't have a Governor-General here not applicable, she can sack PMs when she likes to, she's doing Boris Johnson's bidding.CarlottaVance said:
On the advice of the Governor General.TheScreamingEagles said:
She sacked Gough Whitlam, she should have sacked Boris Johnson.DavidL said:
I think that the Queen will be seriously unhappy to have been dragged into this and I suspect the PM will be told that in no uncertain terms. But it is not her fault, the fault lies with Boris.kle4 said:I am genuinely amazed at the number of people expressing shock that the Queen does not just ignore her PM. I'm totally against what Boris has done, but how are people amazed that the Queen does not truly make a judgement call on these things? Do they bemoan that she has never refused royal assent?
Fair play to Republicans who already back that stance and dont like how it works, but seriously people here did not realise the Queen does not exercise all theoretical power?0 -
if you seriously imagine that poilictcal parties wont want one of their own to control the politics back stop I pity you.Cicero said:
Except that isn't really true... You could see David Attenborough or Judi Dench as very good presidential figures... in fact there are loads, and if scandal continues to circulate around HRH The Duke of York and controversy around HRH the Prince of Wales it is hard to see how the popularity that HM Queen Elizabeth II has given the system can survive the next reign...Alanbrooke said:
ya bollox eaglesTheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
If No Deal is as bad as feared then support for the monarchy will collapse whilst the Queen sits in one of her many palaces whilst her people suffer.
She is our Marie Antoinette, 'let them eat sovereignty' she said today.
in my younger more opinionated days like you I was minded for an elected head of state. Then New Labour showed me the bags of shit I could have,
really you should learn to appreciate what youve got, the alternatives are shit sandwiches with an excrement side salad.
Personally I have been talking about the problems of the monarchy for a while and although I'm not an out and out republican, it is difficult to see how the monarchy survives without some significant constitutional changes... the political role being given to a crown council committee for example.0 -
I've updated the wikiNigelb said:Next year's contest for the Senate just got a bit more interesting...
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/28/sen-johnny-isakson-to-resign-at-end-of-the-year-1476655
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_Senate_election_in_Georgia 0 -
you were quite happy to have her sign her powers over to the EU without a vote but now shes doing something you dont like its somehow differentTheScreamingEagles said:
As we don't have a Governor-General here not applicable, she can sack PMs when she likes to, she's doing Boris Johnson's bidding.CarlottaVance said:
On the advice of the Governor General.TheScreamingEagles said:
She sacked Gough Whitlam, she should have sacked Boris Johnson.DavidL said:
I think that the Queen will be seriously unhappy to have been dragged into this and I suspect the PM will be told that in no uncertain terms. But it is not her fault, the fault lies with Boris.kle4 said:I am genuinely amazed at the number of people expressing shock that the Queen does not just ignore her PM. I'm totally against what Boris has done, but how are people amazed that the Queen does not truly make a judgement call on these things? Do they bemoan that she has never refused royal assent?
Fair play to Republicans who already back that stance and dont like how it works, but seriously people here did not realise the Queen does not exercise all theoretical power?
shes just doing her job0 -
NEW THREAD
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Let's face it - the UK economy and world standing, the Union, the Tory Party, the British constitution, the monarchy. It's been the case for several years that none of these have any objective purpose whatsoever other than to bolster the career of Boris Johnson.0
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Or perhaps we simply become a Norway type member of the SM?TheScreamingEagles said:I suspect Boris Johnson will win a snap election and deliver a No Deal Brexit.
But by 2024 a party committee will win a majority on a platform to take us back in the EU without a referendum.
Pro EU people will ultimately end up thanking Boris Johnson for his actions.
We all know Leave would not have won the referendum if they had promised No Deal.0 -
Only works if people vote for them so I think you afre barking up the wrong tree. Most ceremonial Presidents around the world are exactly those kind of non party figures, although it is true that some parties choose to support one individual versus another, so maybe they choose Dench v Attenborough, because Prescott wouldn't stand a chance..Alanbrooke said:
if you seriously imagine that poilictcal parties wont want one of their own to control the politics back stop I pity you.Cicero said:
Except that isn't really true... You could see David Attenborough or Judi Dench as very good presidential figures... in fact there are loads, and if scandal continues to circulate around HRH The Duke of York and controversy around HRH the Prince of Wales it is hard to see how the popularity that HM Queen Elizabeth II has given the system can survive the next reign...Alanbrooke said:
ya bollox eaglesTheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
If No Deal is as bad as feared then support for the monarchy will collapse whilst the Queen sits in one of her many palaces whilst her people suffer.
She is our Marie Antoinette, 'let them eat sovereignty' she said today.
in my younger more opinionated days like you I was minded for an elected head of state. Then New Labour showed me the bags of shit I could have,
really you should learn to appreciate what youve got, the alternatives are shit sandwiches with an excrement side salad.
Personally I have been talking about the problems of the monarchy for a while and although I'm not an out and out republican, it is difficult to see how the monarchy survives without some significant constitutional changes... the political role being given to a crown council committee for example.0
