politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The betting markets respond to Johnson’s Charles the First Mov
Comments
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Did Brexit happen on 29th March?RobD said:
Remind us, how did the last petition fare?surbiton19 said:351,207 signatures and rising by 1300 every minute.
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Somewhere there’s a parallel reality in which Remain won and Cameron has just handed over to Osborne. There’s are noises off about a second referendum (because of unpopular EU step A, B, or C) but despite Corbyn’s increasingly eurosceptic line as Leader of the Opposition, and a few electoral wins for the Brexit Party, Osborne is quietly confident of a fourth term.0
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Let us know when it has exceeded 17.4m.surbiton19 said:351,207 signatures and rising by 1300 every minute.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157?fbclid=IwAR0xZDEcMTEMXUJ6Ipm10EOt8SkWZL5IuEK8rceZPhuoRtyqvOCk-C-vbnA0 -
We all know you consider the break up of the UK to be just punishment for it having the temerity to vote against your European project.williamglenn said:
It won’t be over until the UK breaks up.Casino_Royale said:
If Brexit is stopped it won't be over either.eek said:
Repeating a post from earlier today - this is just phase 1.Scott_P said:
Whatever happens next will not be a conclusion of Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:Love him or hate him Boris has taken the single most important step to bring this disaster to a conclusion
I have no idea how this pans out but brexit has to be lanced
https://twitter.com/JackWDart/status/1166384551251386368
You see dissolution as insurance against it ever happening again.0 -
No but Johnson's ministry is clearly more serious about the UK actually leaving on October 31st than May was on 29th March.not_on_fire said:
Did Brexit happen on 29th March?RobD said:
Remind us, how did the last petition fare?surbiton19 said:351,207 signatures and rising by 1300 every minute.
That's a statement of undeniable fact given their respective actions vis a vis parliament.0 -
Some MPs are incredibly dim, it seems.CarlottaVance said:0 -
...or you get someone like Mary Robinson.Charles said:
(a) She is a non-political unifying figure that the majority of people can support regardless of party political preference. If you want a non-partisan President you either end up with a superannuated failed politician or someone like the Queen.dixiedean said:
In which case, the question may well arise as to what is the point of a constitutional Head of State with absolutely no power whatsoever other than theoretical?Casino_Royale said:
She isn't doing any such thing.surbiton19 said:
And she is doing it by openly supporting one side. Let's face it, she is supporting this Tory government.Casino_Royale said:
This is why the Queen will do whatever she can to stay above this very dangerous political fray.TheScreamingEagles said:The unelected Queen has confirmed that she is mandateless Boris Johnson’s parrot.
We need to take back control from our unelected rulers.
HMQ always acts on the advice of her PM. Always.
You can make a case the PM has advised her very badly, for which I have some sympathy, but she had no choice.
Actually "someone like the Queen" gives a wide pool to choose from unlike exactly one persond determined but the first sucessful egg or sperm of the previous monarch.0 -
Yes, as well as the coup de grace for the Union, why not add the Monarchy? This could well be our Whitlam moment that energises republicans.AlastairMeeks said:
I agree. Ironic that Boris Johnson has done more to jeopardise the medium term future of the monarchy than Jeremy Corbyn ever has.eek said:
Even if it was (and remember it seems legal advice was that other approaches wouldn't stand scrutiny) it has brought the Monarchy into the equation.AlastairMeeks said:Just a thought: might the Palace have had some involvement in the shape of the prorogation? You can easily imagine that it would prefer MPs to have the opportunity to have a say on the idea beforehand and to take action afterwards.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that this was a compromise between Number 10 and Buckingham Palace.
And that will probably do it no favours in the medium term.0 -
As with all wars, this will only be over at the point where both sides agree to a compromise they can live with.kle4 said:
Just plain silly to think it will be over then. More than that it is dishonest in promising an end to division on this subject. I believe stopping it is the least damaging at this point, but it will not be without ongoing pain and division .eek said:
Repeating a post from earlier today - this is just phase 1.Scott_P said:
Whatever happens next will not be a conclusion of Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:Love him or hate him Boris has taken the single most important step to bring this disaster to a conclusion
I have no idea how this pans out but brexit has to be lanced
https://twitter.com/JackWDart/status/11663845512513863680 -
Really not sure that the Tory party in anything like its current form would have survived a remain vote. My guess is at the next election the Tories would have lost so many votes to UKIP/TBP that it would have lost office and that quite a number of MPs would have followed their members out the door. Cameron was in a difficult place with a party that was so fractured there were no good options.ab195 said:Somewhere there’s a parallel reality in which Remain won and Cameron has just handed over to Osborne. There’s are noises off about a second referendum (because of unpopular EU step A, B, or C) but despite Corbyn’s increasingly eurosceptic line as Leader of the Opposition, and a few electoral wins for the Brexit Party, Osborne is quietly confident of a fourth term.
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How about Parliament/MPs take some responsibility themselves instead of relying on others to do it for them? Who are they relying on next, the House of Lords?CarlottaVance said:
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Instead of attacking the Queen who is without compare in public service, especially with these third rate mps, why don't they get together and take action.CarlottaVance said:
Boris has laid himself wide open to a vonc and so just do it.
Sadly the biggest obstacle which has always been, and will continue to be, is one Jeremy Corbyn, the most inept leader ever of an opposition and in charge of the once great labour party0 -
Does a new session of Parliament following porogation allow May's Shit Deal to be brought back a fourth time, over the obections of the Speaker?0
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Never underestimate how deep the Brexit brainworms have burrowed in some peopleCarlottaVance said:0 -
That's the point - the Queen couldn't save us but shouldn't have been placed in the position she was placed in.KentRising said:
Some MPs are incredibly dim, it seems.CarlottaVance said:
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alex. said:
How about Parliament/MPs take some responsibility themselves instead of relying on others to do it for them? Who are they relying on next, the House of Lords?CarlottaVance said:
It's called "THE DEAL"Gabs2 said:
As with all wars, this will only be over at the point where both sides agree to a compromise they can live with.kle4 said:
Just plain silly to think it will be over then. More than that it is dishonest in promising an end to division on this subject. I believe stopping it is the least damaging at this point, but it will not be without ongoing pain and division .eek said:
Repeating a post from earlier today - this is just phase 1.Scott_P said:
Whatever happens next will not be a conclusion of Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:Love him or hate him Boris has taken the single most important step to bring this disaster to a conclusion
I have no idea how this pans out but brexit has to be lanced
https://twitter.com/JackWDart/status/1166384551251386368
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As a longstanding Republican today has done more for the Republican movement than any other day in my life.
Thank you Boris Johnson and Brexiteers.
PS - Has always amused my friends that one of life’s Cavaliers is a Roundhead.0 -
Yes. But who will bring it?MarqueeMark said:Does a new session of Parliament following porogation allow May's Shit Deal to be brought back a fourth time, over the obections of the Speaker?
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Yes - it's just about the only thing that makes this plan look sensible.MarqueeMark said:Does a new session of Parliament following porogation allow May's Shit Deal to be brought back a fourth time, over the obections of the Speaker?
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This isn't exactly polling that's going to put Conservative constitutionalists back in their box.OllyT said:
Looks as though Curry's office doesn't really speak for the nation. Quelle surprise.AlastairMeeks said:
NB Churchill for a while campaigned in politics as a Constitutionalist. Time for a revival?0 -
Yes, and the Speaker won't object because the rule is that business can only be debated once per session.MarqueeMark said:Does a new session of Parliament following porogation allow May's Shit Deal to be brought back a fourth time, over the obections of the Speaker?
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Can Remain MPs get a Bill through Parliament next week?
They got a Bill through in a couple of days a few months ago.
But could Govt supporters in Lords delay it long enough by putting down hundreds of amendments? I know Lords can vote on closure motion re each amendment but if there were literally hundreds of amendments I would have thought it could be strung out long enough to prevent it going through next week.
Two votes needed on each amendment - the closure motion and then actual vote on the amendment - so each amendment can be made to take at least 35 minutes.0 -
Since were sharing anecdotes today one reaction in my office was from someone saying as a Republican they are glad the queen didnt prevent it as it would mean she held actual power.CarlottaVance said:
Another blamed the EU for not compromising and two others were terrified of no deal chaos.0 -
I don't know who you mean by "we", but whether or not he is fit to be Speaker is entirely at the discretion of Parliament.Charles said:
Agreed. That's why we've been calling for Bercow to be sacked for years. The man's unfit to be Speakerjustin124 said:
I will be surprised if today's news has no effect on her. The issue now goes way beyond Brexit per se - much more to do with abuse of process and failing to adhere to convention.Pulpstar said:
https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1160191121433214976justin124 said:
I would have thought that Johnson's action will now make it very difficult for Labour MPs such as Caroline Flint and Gareth Snell to be seen to do anything but oppose him in the Division Lobbies. His contempt for Parliamentary scrutiny will surely override other considerations.eek said:Another worthwhile what is happening thread for those who may not have seen it
https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1166712433970503680
For the moment Flint is still voting for a deal put forward to parliament. No tweets from her thus far wrt prorogation.0 -
Yes. But that was not insurmountable anyway. Hence Boris being so against it he will clearly whip against, just in card someone suggested bringing it back.MarqueeMark said:Does a new session of Parliament following porogation allow May's Shit Deal to be brought back a fourth time, over the obections of the Speaker?
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Not exactly how I'd describe the outcome of most warsGabs2 said:
As with all wars, this will only be over at the point where both sides agree to a compromise they can live with.kle4 said:
Just plain silly to think it will be over then. More than that it is dishonest in promising an end to division on this subject. I believe stopping it is the least damaging at this point, but it will not be without ongoing pain and division .eek said:
Repeating a post from earlier today - this is just phase 1.Scott_P said:
Whatever happens next will not be a conclusion of Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:Love him or hate him Boris has taken the single most important step to bring this disaster to a conclusion
I have no idea how this pans out but brexit has to be lanced
https://twitter.com/JackWDart/status/11663845512513863680 -
Cameron's best option was to have embraced the possibility of siding with Leave if the EU didn't move on his renegotiation. If he had, he would have won the Brexit vote by at least 60-40, stayed PM and turned many Remainer MPs into Brexiteers in the process.DavidL said:
Really not sure that the Tory party in anything like its current form would have survived a remain vote. My guess is at the next election the Tories would have lost so many votes to UKIP/TBP that it would have lost office and that quite a number of MPs would have followed their members out the door. Cameron was in a difficult place with a party that was so fractured there were no good options.ab195 said:Somewhere there’s a parallel reality in which Remain won and Cameron has just handed over to Osborne. There’s are noises off about a second referendum (because of unpopular EU step A, B, or C) but despite Corbyn’s increasingly eurosceptic line as Leader of the Opposition, and a few electoral wins for the Brexit Party, Osborne is quietly confident of a fourth term.
Who knows what he must turn over in his mind, in those long days in the shepherd hut.....0 -
When Priti re-legalises the death penalty, perhaps the guillotine will be one of the permitted methodsFoxy said:
Yes, as well as the coup de grace for the Union, why not add the Monarchy? This could well be our Whitlam moment that energises republicans.AlastairMeeks said:
I agree. Ironic that Boris Johnson has done more to jeopardise the medium term future of the monarchy than Jeremy Corbyn ever has.eek said:
Even if it was (and remember it seems legal advice was that other approaches wouldn't stand scrutiny) it has brought the Monarchy into the equation.AlastairMeeks said:Just a thought: might the Palace have had some involvement in the shape of the prorogation? You can easily imagine that it would prefer MPs to have the opportunity to have a say on the idea beforehand and to take action afterwards.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that this was a compromise between Number 10 and Buckingham Palace.
And that will probably do it no favours in the medium term.0 -
on what grounds?CarlottaVance said:
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I largely agree with that.glw said:
I still think that the thing that would come closest to keeping both sides and the most number of people content is something like EFTA with a customs arrangement. Unfortunately we seem to have gotten into a position where only extreme outcomes are now possible, with all the trouble that they inevitably will cause.Casino_Royale said:
If Brexit is stopped it won't be over either.eek said:
Repeating a post from earlier today - this is just phase 1.Scott_P said:
Whatever happens next will not be a conclusion of Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:Love him or hate him Boris has taken the single most important step to bring this disaster to a conclusion
I have no idea how this pans out but brexit has to be lanced
https://twitter.com/JackWDart/status/11663845512513863680 -
Well, whoever they agree as the replacement PM for Boris?DavidL said:
Yes. But who will bring it?MarqueeMark said:Does a new session of Parliament following porogation allow May's Shit Deal to be brought back a fourth time, over the obections of the Speaker?
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Yep - I'm not a republican but the ones I know are beyond ecstatic - the Queen was placed in an impossible situation she can't win.TheScreamingEagles said:As a longstanding Republican today has done more for the Republican movement than any other day in my life.
Thank you Boris Johnson and Brexiteers.
PS - Has always amused my friends that one of life’s Cavaliers is a Roundhead.0 -
And retrospectively ?alex. said:0 -
If MPs want to prevent no deal via an election - they can do it next week. If they want to do it via legislation and/or some VoNC followed by some theoretical GoNU they can do it - post October 14th.
What does the prorogation prevent them from doing that they couldn’t have done anyway?
Other than express “outrage” obviously.1 -
If that is the case then why did Boris do it other than that he wanted the outrage?alex. said:If MPs want to prevent no deal via an election - they can do it next week. If they want to do it via legislation and/or some VoNC followed by some theoretical GoNU they can do it - post October 14th.
What does the prorogation prevent them from doing that they couldn’t have done anyway?
Other than express “outrage” obviously.1 -
I was of the position that the best thing for the Republican movement was for Charles to become King but this is even better.eek said:
Yep - I'm not a republican but the ones I know are beyond ecstatic - the Queen was placed in an impossible situation she can't win.TheScreamingEagles said:As a longstanding Republican today has done more for the Republican movement than any other day in my life.
Thank you Boris Johnson and Brexiteers.
PS - Has always amused my friends that one of life’s Cavaliers is a Roundhead.0 -
Pres Johnson would have had more powers than PM Johnson though ?eek said:
Yep - I'm not a republican but the ones I know are beyond ecstatic - the Queen was placed in an impossible situation she can't win.TheScreamingEagles said:As a longstanding Republican today has done more for the Republican movement than any other day in my life.
Thank you Boris Johnson and Brexiteers.
PS - Has always amused my friends that one of life’s Cavaliers is a Roundhead.0 -
You may be right. High stakes gamble IMHOkle4 said:
If that is the case then why did Boris do it other than that he wanted the outrage?alex. said:If MPs want to prevent no deal via an election - they can do it next week. If they want to do it via legislation and/or some VoNC followed by some theoretical GoNU they can do it - post October 14th.
What does the prorogation prevent them from doing that they couldn’t have done anyway?
Other than express “outrage” obviously.0 -
Remember the fuss when EU Citizens had to pay a fee in the UK?
https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1166734464208293888?s=200 -
Everyone loves an anecdote. I know remainers that are well impressed with Boris after today. They want the issue resolved and they want strong leadership.
Ignore that snap Yougov poll for now and let’s see the VI polls in the weekend papers.0 -
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?0 -
Rather jumping the gun, its literally not been a day.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was of the position that the best thing for the Republican movement was for Charles to become King but this is even better.eek said:
Yep - I'm not a republican but the ones I know are beyond ecstatic - the Queen was placed in an impossible situation she can't win.TheScreamingEagles said:As a longstanding Republican today has done more for the Republican movement than any other day in my life.
Thank you Boris Johnson and Brexiteers.
PS - Has always amused my friends that one of life’s Cavaliers is a Roundhead.0 -
I think the current speaker and the current parliament deserve each other.Nigelb said:
I don't know who you mean by "we", but whether or not he is fit to be Speaker is entirely at the discretion of Parliament.Charles said:
Agreed. That's why we've been calling for Bercow to be sacked for years. The man's unfit to be Speakerjustin124 said:
I will be surprised if today's news has no effect on her. The issue now goes way beyond Brexit per se - much more to do with abuse of process and failing to adhere to convention.Pulpstar said:
https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1160191121433214976justin124 said:
I would have thought that Johnson's action will now make it very difficult for Labour MPs such as Caroline Flint and Gareth Snell to be seen to do anything but oppose him in the Division Lobbies. His contempt for Parliamentary scrutiny will surely override other considerations.eek said:Another worthwhile what is happening thread for those who may not have seen it
https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1166712433970503680
For the moment Flint is still voting for a deal put forward to parliament. No tweets from her thus far wrt prorogation.
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It feels longer than a day.kle4 said:
Rather jumping the gun, its literally not been a day.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was of the position that the best thing for the Republican movement was for Charles to become King but this is even better.eek said:
Yep - I'm not a republican but the ones I know are beyond ecstatic - the Queen was placed in an impossible situation she can't win.TheScreamingEagles said:As a longstanding Republican today has done more for the Republican movement than any other day in my life.
Thank you Boris Johnson and Brexiteers.
PS - Has always amused my friends that one of life’s Cavaliers is a Roundhead.0 -
Maybe he wanted to remove the possibility that he would come under pressure from hard Brexiteers to prorogue across October 31st? Because he actually really doesn’t want no deal? Or force Parliament to actually take the whole thing out of his hands before a VoNC actually forces any following election to be post Oct 31st.kle4 said:
If that is the case then why did Boris do it other than that he wanted the outrage?alex. said:If MPs want to prevent no deal via an election - they can do it next week. If they want to do it via legislation and/or some VoNC followed by some theoretical GoNU they can do it - post October 14th.
What does the prorogation prevent them from doing that they couldn’t have done anyway?
Other than express “outrage” obviously.
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And that hyperbolic story means the death knell of the monarchy?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Crikey - that's only a week's saving from the EU contributions! What value for money.....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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Its robbed them of 4 days to accomplish something they haven't managed in 3 years.....alex. said:If MPs want to prevent no deal via an election - they can do it next week. If they want to do it via legislation and/or some VoNC followed by some theoretical GoNU they can do it - post October 14th.
What does the prorogation prevent them from doing that they couldn’t have done anyway?
Other than express “outrage” obviously.0 -
The one thing the Queen has is enormous goodwill in the Country and admiration far beyond any of our useless mps.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
Attacking the Queen will be counter productive in the public at large
And I say that as a republican who has come to admire the Queen, not so Charles and the rest0 -
Yup.kle4 said:
And that hyperbolic story means the death knell of the monarchy?TheScreamingEagles said:
We need to talk about the monarchy and their relationship was the Nazis.
https://twitter.com/derekmeers/status/1166728921053827073?s=210 -
I think we can add 'Prorogation Derangement Syndrome' to 'Brexit Derangement Syndrome'....KentRising said:0 -
It's the UK government's fault that there is a feeCarlottaVance said:Remember the fuss when EU Citizens had to pay a fee in the UK?
https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1166734464208293888?s=200 -
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How come her interventions always help Conservatives ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The one thing the Queen has is enormous goodwill in the Country and admiration far beyond any of our useless mps.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
Attacking the Queen will be counter productive in the public at large
And I say that as a republican who has come to admire the Queen, not so Charles and the rest0 -
On one level I agree but on the PR level - it's far worse than that.CarlottaVance said:
Its robbed them of 4 days to accomplish something they haven't managed in 3 years.....alex. said:If MPs want to prevent no deal via an election - they can do it next week. If they want to do it via legislation and/or some VoNC followed by some theoretical GoNU they can do it - post October 14th.
What does the prorogation prevent them from doing that they couldn’t have done anyway?
Other than express “outrage” obviously.0 -
From the Guardian no less
Can MPs vote against prorogation?
No. Parliament is due to go on a three-week conference recess anyway in the second week of September and there had been suggestions MPs would vote against holding this recess, or any attempt to extend it. However, proroguing parliament is not voted on by MPs so cannot be stopped in this way.0 -
It's the UK government's fault that the French government charge a fee?not_on_fire said:
It's the UK government's fault that there is a feeCarlottaVance said:Remember the fuss when EU Citizens had to pay a fee in the UK?
https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1166734464208293888?s=200 -
I think it’s pretty clear that the option with the best chance of keeping the European issue on the back burner for a while would have been Cameron’s deal. Following an undefined vote to Leave, any specific option was destined to provoke outrage from people who wanted Leave to mean something else.Casino_Royale said:
I largely agree with that.glw said:
I still think that the thing that would come closest to keeping both sides and the most number of people content is something like EFTA with a customs arrangement. Unfortunately we seem to have gotten into a position where only extreme outcomes are now possible, with all the trouble that they inevitably will cause.Casino_Royale said:
If Brexit is stopped it won't be over either.eek said:
Repeating a post from earlier today - this is just phase 1.Scott_P said:
Whatever happens next will not be a conclusion of Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:Love him or hate him Boris has taken the single most important step to bring this disaster to a conclusion
I have no idea how this pans out but brexit has to be lanced
https://twitter.com/JackWDart/status/11663845512513863680 -
Boris
LOL0 -
Judging by this forum it is far from helping the conservatives, but of course time and the polls will tellsurbiton19 said:
How come her interventions always help Conservatives ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The one thing the Queen has is enormous goodwill in the Country and admiration far beyond any of our useless mps.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
Attacking the Queen will be counter productive in the public at large
And I say that as a republican who has come to admire the Queen, not so Charles and the rest0 -
Yet another complication in respect of tomorrow's hearing will be that it is generally not competent to interdict (grant an injunction against) a completed wrong. If the Queen has already granted the prorogation I think it is arguable that the Courts can't do anything about it. The petitioners may be able to argue that the wrong is not completed until Parliament is actually prorogued but it is a further hurdle, no question.0
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The queen never overrules a Governor-General though. There have been Governors-General that have done far worse, such as condone the overthrow of elected governments by force and invite another country to military invade, and she has not tried to stop them.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?0 -
Carlotta, how come you are not posting this one:
https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/11366108337509949510 -
It's been posted already?surbiton19 said:Carlotta, how come you are not posting this one:
https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/11366108337509949510 -
Are Her Maj courts going to overule err her Maj ?!DavidL said:Yet another complication in respect of tomorrow's hearing will be that it is generally not competent to interdict (grant an injunction against) a completed wrong. If the Queen has already granted the prorogation I think it is arguable that the Courts can't do anything about it. The petitioners may be able to argue that the wrong is not completed until Parliament is actually prorogued but it is a further hurdle, no question.
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So, why the f**k do we pay her to be there ? She should spend her time finding out what her sons are up to - particularly, one of them.rpjs said:
The queen never overrules a Governor-General though. There have been Governors-General that have done far worse, such as condone the overthrow of elected governments by force and invite another country to military invade, and she has not tried to stop them.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?0 -
I notice you didn't answer my previous question.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
She acted on advice of her Prime Minister. Would you be saying the same thing if she had refused Corbyn's advice?0 -
I would imagine that the form of the order is going to give the senior counsel involved in the case a fairly sleepless night.Pulpstar said:
Are Her Maj courts going to overule err her Maj ?!DavidL said:Yet another complication in respect of tomorrow's hearing will be that it is generally not competent to interdict (grant an injunction against) a completed wrong. If the Queen has already granted the prorogation I think it is arguable that the Courts can't do anything about it. The petitioners may be able to argue that the wrong is not completed until Parliament is actually prorogued but it is a further hurdle, no question.
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We pay her not to interfere.surbiton19 said:
So, why the f**k do we pay her to be there ? She should spend her time finding out what her sons are up to - particularly, one of them.rpjs said:
The queen never overrules a Governor-General though. There have been Governors-General that have done far worse, such as condone the overthrow of elected governments by force and invite another country to military invade, and she has not tried to stop them.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
That is the point.0 -
because its better than paying that useless tosser Prescott to be a Presidentsurbiton19 said:
So, why the f**k do we pay her to be there ? She should spend her time finding out what her sons are up to - particularly, one of them.rpjs said:
The queen never overrules a Governor-General though. There have been Governors-General that have done far worse, such as condone the overthrow of elected governments by force and invite another country to military invade, and she has not tried to stop them.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?0 -
YouGov question is potentially a bit misleading as some people may well get the impression that Parliament will not meet until after Brexit Day.0
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I just get the feeling that Boris, and more likely Cummings, are running rings around their opponents who seem to be in total fury, probably as they cannot be sure how to stop him
Boris has certainly set the agenda and I just want to see his opponents table a vonc next week and take it from there.
In the absence of that they are all anger and no plan0 -
It might be so that it is all constitutionally above board. It has a chance of success. But it looks very very bad and not just the usual suspects given how some prominent people were against proroguing in this way.CarlottaVance said:
But enough for one day. Hopefully today has clarified to MPs that half measures are over and to stop hoping the queen or the courts will spare them the hard calls. It's on them and they have more options than they admit, they just want avoid some.0 -
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It’s pretty easy to answer that one - he was clearly discussing this in the context of pro-roguing Parliament across Oct 31st to force no deal Brexit. Nobody was saying having a recess for summer holidays, or a recess for the Party conferences was outrageous even though both caused the loss of far more time for scrutiny than this. And is almost totally concurrent with the latter.TheScreamingEagles said:
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The suggestions that Boris might prove somewhat cowardly and completely indecisive in office have proven somewhat wide of the mark. Reckless and foolhardy remain open for debate.Scott_P said:0 -
The measures were devised by the prime minister’s senior aides who have spent the summer in their Downing Street bunker wargaming how to respond to potential parliamentary manoeuvres by MPs determined to block no-deal. The rebels, by contrast, spent the August holidays debating whether they would back Ken Clarke as a potential caretaker prime minister in an unlikely government of national unity.Scott_P said:
Number 10's prorogation plan was ready to go and put into action on Tuesday evening, just hours after Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn agreed a pact with the so-called Remainer “rebel alliance” seeking to prevent a no-deal Brexit.0 -
The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
If No Deal is as bad as feared then support for the monarchy will collapse whilst the Queen sits in one of her many palaces whilst her people suffer.
She is our Marie Antoinette, 'let them eat sovereignty' she said today.0 -
Odds on a successful pre Brexit VONC now? One assumes away from the bluster, the same logic that said last week this would fail still stands?0
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By you, an impartial observer?TheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
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And it does not mention that parliament is in conference recess for three weeks anywayMikeL said:YouGov question is potentially a bit misleading as some people may well get the impression that Parliament will not meet until after Brexit Day.
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Look at that YouGov poll, she will be seen as complicit.kle4 said:
By you, an impartial observer?TheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
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There is an element of truth in that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The one thing the Queen has is enormous goodwill in the Country and admiration far beyond any of our useless mps.surbiton19 said:
The Queen has form. She allowed, through her Governor General, Harper [ a Conservative ] to prorogue Parliament so that a VoNC could not be tabled. She allowed her Australian Governor General Kerr to sack a Labor Prime Minister. And now helped a Conservative Prime Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Coincidences ?
Attacking the Queen will be counter productive in the public at large
And I say that as a republican who has come to admire the Queen, not so Charles and the rest
The constitution requires her to be pro whichever rogue happens to be occupying the office of PM.
And the current occupant is an absolute pro rogue.0 -
Those tweets won't age well if the courts strike the prorogation down.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I think the only people saving Johnson from a VoNC are the 5 CHUKies. Ironically, they are supposed to be the most ardent Remainers.moonshine said:Odds on a successful pre Brexit VONC now? One assumes away from the bluster, the same logic that said last week this would fail still stands?
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In a snap reaction. 5 seconds of thinking if people really want her to overrule her PMS might provoke a different reaction.TheScreamingEagles said:
Look at that YouGov poll, she will be seen as complicit.kle4 said:
By you, an impartial observer?TheScreamingEagles said:The Queen is now seen as an enabler of No Deal.
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If the Queen has no scope for taking any alternative action / taking any decisions whatsoever it does rather beg the question of what is the point of having her as part of tbe process?
Let alone all the rest of the Royal Family.
It's a heck of an expensive operation just to have some people to promote charities and supply "entertainment" for the media.0 -
I can use this againScott_P said:
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