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Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?basicbridge said:
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
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Hmmmm.....and posting about it? I doubt it.williamglenn said:
You can easily reach a quarter of a million politically engaged people through social media, etc, without having to wait for the 6 o'clock news.basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company.0 -
No, there is an established tradition that a PM after losing the election nominates his/her sucessor.Gabs2 said:
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.AlastairMeeks said:
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.nichomar said:
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.Byronic said:
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.not_on_fire said:
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amendedByronic said:
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)NickPalmer said:The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.0 -
Sorry. It simply isnt.NickPalmer said:
Yes, if there's an election it's going to be much more about "Do you favour the Johnson coup and No Deal?" than "Are you worried about Corbyn?"SouthamObserver said:Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
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Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.0
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LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.0 -
Well, quite. We all want a summer holiday but businesses usually manage to function. The HoC quorum is actually quite small, 40 or so IIRC. They could have happily sat over the summer if it was so important to keep the Government to account, and no-one would have had to miss their holiday.CaptainBuzzkill said:Jo Swinson complaining Boris is taking away crucial time for parliament to discuss Brexit.
Not so crucial that mp's were willing to sacrifice their summer holidays though.0 -
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?Stark_Dawning said:Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
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Wasn't he the one who rated D Cameron as one of his most brilliant students?TheScreamingEagles said:
We’re sick and tired of experts who always get it wrong, he’s always wrong, the proof is that he was educated at a dump and teaches at that dump.basicbridge said:
Am assuming this is a spoof comment or that someone has hacked your avatar....TheScreamingEagles said:
He teaches at a dump, he can be ignored.basicbridge said:Vernon Bogdanor on the radio saying comparisons with "Charles I or James I" is nonsense..
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I was right first time - its a spoof....TheScreamingEagles said:
We’re sick and tired of experts who always get it wrong, he’s always wrong, the proof is that he was educated at a dump and teaches at that dump.basicbridge said:
Am assuming this is a spoof comment or that someone has hacked your avatar....TheScreamingEagles said:
He teaches at a dump, he can be ignored.basicbridge said:Vernon Bogdanor on the radio saying comparisons with "Charles I or James I" is nonsense..
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But only 50,000 in the past 30 mins (now 278,000). So, as suggested, 100,000/hr. Or a full day to get to 2 millionCicero said:
Another 10,000 in the last 6 minutes... 228.785 :-)Sunil_Prasannan said:
218,141FrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
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Bloody events!TheScreamingEagles said:So Friday afternoon should see a thread about AV.
Assuming nothing major happens.0 -
No. They don't.not_on_fire said:
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?Stark_Dawning said:Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
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Ok he got one thing right.dixiedean said:
Wasn't he the one who rated D Cameron as one of his most brilliant students?TheScreamingEagles said:
We’re sick and tired of experts who always get it wrong, he’s always wrong, the proof is that he was educated at a dump and teaches at that dump.basicbridge said:
Am assuming this is a spoof comment or that someone has hacked your avatar....TheScreamingEagles said:
He teaches at a dump, he can be ignored.basicbridge said:Vernon Bogdanor on the radio saying comparisons with "Charles I or James I" is nonsense..
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Does that leave Swinson just bumping her gums then?NickPalmer said:
Yes, if there's an election it's going to be much more about "Do you favour the Johnson coup and No Deal?" than "Are you worried about Corbyn?"SouthamObserver said:Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
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Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.OblitusSumMe said:
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.0 -
No, i didnt.PClipp said:
Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?basicbridge said:
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
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17.4m to be precise.CaptainBuzzkill said:Is the online petition anywhere near the 17m+ required to make it relevant?
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Might be fun for Grieve et al to submit letters to Graham Brady then.dixiedean said:
No. They don't.not_on_fire said:
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?Stark_Dawning said:Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
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Do you think the 17m+ who voted for parties committed to stopping No Deal in the 2017 General Election should be ignored?CaptainBuzzkill said:Is the online petition anywhere near the 17m+ required to make it relevant?
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I thought the right on luvvie brigade were the industry with a very high percentage of people employing the most tax efficient personal service companies. Them and NHS consultants.PClipp said:
Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?basicbridge said:
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
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How many other conspiracy theories do you believe in?basicbridge said:
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.OblitusSumMe said:
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.1 -
That was in June.Nigelb said:
The most recent polling on the issue indicates a large majority against prorogation, and a plurality (just short of a majority) of leave voters in favour.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/11/brits-oppose-proroguing-parliament-force-through-n
Let us wait and see the next few polls taken following todays announcement.
It could go either way0 -
Flanner said:
But only 50,000 in the past 30 mins (now 278,000). So, as suggested, 100,000/hr. Or a full day to get to 2 millionCicero said:
Another 10,000 in the last 6 minutes... 228.785 :-)Sunil_Prasannan said:
218,141FrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
The last anti-Brexit petition was found to have been spammed by tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of fake signatories.
This will be no different, and probably far worse.
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This "carry on" is precisely the strong, purposeful, determined government that the memberhip just voted for.Stark_Dawning said:Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
So no. No risk at all.0 -
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...0 -
I reckon. Cons were spooked by how well Corbyn's soirée went yesterday. They were banking on it not happening/breaking up in rancour. So they have gone nuclear. This has further United the opposition and probably girded some loins on Tory rebel side, too.
Thus, battle lines are crystal clear before Parliament meets.
That is what "Do or Die" actually meant. Sometimes it is just a cigar.0 -
May did (from her MPs). Edit I miss read your comment. I don't think 12 months applies to a new appointee.not_on_fire said:
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?Stark_Dawning said:Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
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Quitephiliph said:
I thought the right on luvvie brigade were the industry with a very high percentage of people employing the most tax efficient personal service companies. Them and NHS consultants.PClipp said:
Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?basicbridge said:
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.SouthamObserver said:Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
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But it is a petition! Show me any petition which is a representative sample.basicbridge said:
Hmmmm.....and posting about it? I doubt it.williamglenn said:
You can easily reach a quarter of a million politically engaged people through social media, etc, without having to wait for the 6 o'clock news.basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company.
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The fuss over the loss of four days sitting time is quite something. Given how rapidly they passed the bill last time, I’m not sure what remain MPs have to worry about.JohnLilburne said:
Well, quite. We all want a summer holiday but businesses usually manage to function. The HoC quorum is actually quite small, 40 or so IIRC. They could have happily sat over the summer if it was so important to keep the Government to account, and no-one would have had to miss their holiday.CaptainBuzzkill said:Jo Swinson complaining Boris is taking away crucial time for parliament to discuss Brexit.
Not so crucial that mp's were willing to sacrifice their summer holidays though.0 -
So they don't bring Parliament done but instead just use the time available for them.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
It's clear Boris wants an election so all they need to do is avoid triggering one.0 -
The Conservatives certainly seem to want to fight an election whilst Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party. But im not sure i would describe that as being "spooked"....dixiedean said:I reckon. Cons were spooked by how well Corbyn's soirée went yesterday. They were banking on it not happening/breaking up in rancour. So they have gone nuclear. This has further United the opposition and probably girded some loins on Tory rebel side, too.
Thus, battle lines are crystal clear before Parliament meets.
That is what "Do or Die" actually meant. Sometimes it is just a cigar.0 -
Yeah but the usual way it works is the PM resigns and nominates a successor. Not sure the FTPA was written in a way that accounted for a PM not doing that.edmundintokyo said:
They don't say anything about that in the FTPA because the existing process still applies, namely that if somebody else looks like they can get the confidence of the House they get appointed PM and get to test it.Gabs2 said:
Is it? The convention pre-FTPA meant a government with no confidence can resolve the matter with an election. The FTPA raises the threshold to have that election but doesn't say anything about the process for changing PMs in the lead up.
Believe it or not the 14 day period isn't just there to give everyone a chance to chill.0 -
But almost everyone has been spotting that as a strategy and commenting on it, at great length, for weeks.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...0 -
A rigged petition even more so. Which are two reasons why it will be ignored.eristdoof said:
But it is a petition! Show me any petition which is a representative sample.basicbridge said:
Hmmmm.....and posting about it? I doubt it.williamglenn said:
You can easily reach a quarter of a million politically engaged people through social media, etc, without having to wait for the 6 o'clock news.basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company.0 -
Some utterly dreadful numbers for Trump in Quinnipiac's latest H2H polls.
Aug 21-26, 2019
A-
Quinnipiac University
Trump Buttigieg +9
Trump Harris +11
Trump Warren +12
Trump Sanders +14
Trump Biden +16
Now I know it's early, and we shouldn't read too much etc etc but there is no way the two party vote should be near Even money the pair.0 -
You’re right, obviously (no sure on what basis anyone is disagreeing with you), but it will be fascinating to see it play out, and a lot of the public will be surprised to learn we live in a Parliamentary democracy.AlastairMeeks said:
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.Gabs2 said:
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.AlastairMeeks said:
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.nichomar said:
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.Byronic said:
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.not_on_fire said:
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amendedByronic said:
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)NickPalmer said:The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
I think one thing we’ve discovered from the last two years is how ancient our constitution looks when there isn’t a Gvt majority. The last time this was commonplace was more than 100 years ago, on a different time and when the very idea of democracy (as we now view it) was up for debate. Either way, we’re going to have to tidy it up.0 -
But equally, they have to find a legislatve mechanism to stop Brexit in the (short) meantime. One not found to date.....eek said:
So they don't bring Parliament done but instead just use the time available for them.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
It's clear Boris wants an election so all they need to do is avoid triggering one.0 -
Where is you’re proof for that allegation? Just because you think you can sign it three hundred times using different names etc they get removed on a regular basis by cleaning softwarebasicbridge said:
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.OblitusSumMe said:
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
similar to that used in the direct mail industry. What you can do is sign twice with the same email address and different names as many couples share their email address.0 -
Won't stop remainers falling right in to the trap.dixiedean said:
But almost everyone has been spotting that as a strategy and commenting on it, at great length, for weeks.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...0 -
williamglenn said:
hahaha...who does she think she is?0 -
Those are astoundingly dreadful numbers.Pulpstar said:Some utterly dreadful numbers for Trump in Quinnipiac's latest H2H polls.
Aug 21-26, 2019
A-
Quinnipiac University
Trump Buttigieg +9
Trump Harris +11
Trump Warren +12
Trump Sanders +14
Trump Biden +16
Now I know it's early, and we shouldn't read too much etc etc but there is no way the two party vote should be near Even money the pair.0 -
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Lmao Trump is trolling Corbyn on Twitter.
Remainers have a problem, defying HMQ might lead to unintended consequences0 -
They seem unable to though, dont they? Who will they put in Johnson's place? The remain lobby are a disunited rabble and have been comprehensively outplayed.eek said:
So they don't bring Parliament done but instead just use the time available for them.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
It's clear Boris wants an election so all they need to do is avoid triggering one.
I am very equivocal about brexit. I voted remain but i strongly believe the vote must be honoured. My reading of my friends, family and colleagues who voted similarly is that they increasingly feel the same way. This is the wave Johnson is trying to ride, so far quite succesfully...0 -
Obviously those supportive of us leaving without a Deal will believe that but the truth is the majority do not want us to leave without a Deal and would prefer MPs and others to keep working to prevent the disaster of a No Deal Brexit.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
The problem with standing on an anti-Parliament ticket is that it just looks like you want your turn at having a snout in the trough.0 -
surbiton19 said:
Whether people like it or not, the Queen gets involved here. This is not "normal" prorogation.
The reason it is happening at the Court of Session is that they don’t take summer holidays, unlike the London court.surbiton19 said:
(Incidentally Byronic, the English language was not born in “these islands” but on the mainland, in what is now northern Germany/southern Jutland.)0 -
For something that you say will just be ignored, you seem to be talking about it a fair bitbasicbridge said:
A rigged petition even more so. Which are two reasons why it will be ignored.eristdoof said:
But it is a petition! Show me any petition which is a representative sample.basicbridge said:
Hmmmm.....and posting about it? I doubt it.williamglenn said:
You can easily reach a quarter of a million politically engaged people through social media, etc, without having to wait for the 6 o'clock news.basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company. 0 -
Yes. And 2 days ago Corbyn desperately wanted No Deal more than anything.CaptainBuzzkill said:
Won't stop remainers falling right in to the trap.dixiedean said:
But almost everyone has been spotting that as a strategy and commenting on it, at great length, for weeks.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...0 -
The appointmemt is not expired but the conventions are obviously different immediately after an election compared to the middle of a term.AlastairMeeks said:
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.Gabs2 said:
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.AlastairMeeks said:
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.nichomar said:
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.Byronic said:
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.not_on_fire said:
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amendedByronic said:
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)NickPalmer said:The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
And it is certainly far from hopeful. The best approach is an extension and a deal. You seem unable to differentiate between what someone thinks is the situation to what they want as the situation.0 -
It is clear that Boris would prefer a deal and those caricaturing no deal as his "preferred" outcome don't seem to understand how negotiations work.stodge said:
Obviously those supportive of us leaving without a Deal will believe that but the truth is the majority do not want us to leave without a Deal and would prefer MPs and others to keep working to prevent the disaster of a No Deal Brexit.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
The problem with standing on an anti-Parliament ticket is that it just looks like you want your turn at having a snout in the trough.0 -
Have you any evidence that there were large numbers of fake/duplicate signatures to the previous petition that were not removed by the people who run the petition?basicbridge said:
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.OblitusSumMe said:
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
I suspect that you are simply repeating a comforting talking point so you do not have to face how split the country is, and how many people are strongly opposed to your position. (And, yes, Remainers also indulge in this sort of self-deception).0 -
The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.0 -
Texas and Georgia would surely be in play on those numbers.Alistair said:
Those are astoundingly dreadful numbers.Pulpstar said:Some utterly dreadful numbers for Trump in Quinnipiac's latest H2H polls.
Aug 21-26, 2019
A-
Quinnipiac University
Trump Buttigieg +9
Trump Harris +11
Trump Warren +12
Trump Sanders +14
Trump Biden +16
Now I know it's early, and we shouldn't read too much etc etc but there is no way the two party vote should be near Even money the pair.0 -
They've got Biden on 32, Warren 19, Sanders 15.Alistair said:
Those are astoundingly dreadful numbers.Pulpstar said:Some utterly dreadful numbers for Trump in Quinnipiac's latest H2H polls.
Aug 21-26, 2019
A-
Quinnipiac University
Trump Buttigieg +9
Trump Harris +11
Trump Warren +12
Trump Sanders +14
Trump Biden +16
Now I know it's early, and we shouldn't read too much etc etc but there is no way the two party vote should be near Even money the pair.
I think Sanders is ahead of Warren given ALL the polls we have right now but it's harder to tell than the fact Biden is likely still out ahead by at least 9 points or so.0 -
Boris proroguing parliament from mid sept to mid oct has the benefit of less satellite internet use by myself on our transatlantic cruise between those dates ( unless a vonc happens in the meantime)0
-
Bring it on.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
If Boris can win an election promising No Deal then fair enough, the British people will have made an informed choice (or as informed as we get in our democracy).
But I suspect the reason he has consistently opposed an election is that he knows it will be difficult for him to win.0 -
Trump is toxic for Boris.dr_spyn said:0 -
Im just pointing this out given so many here seem to be laying great store by ittottenhamWC said:
For something that you say will just be ignored, you seem to be talking about it a fair bitbasicbridge said:
A rigged petition even more so. Which are two reasons why it will be ignored.eristdoof said:
But it is a petition! Show me any petition which is a representative sample.basicbridge said:
Hmmmm.....and posting about it? I doubt it.williamglenn said:
You can easily reach a quarter of a million politically engaged people through social media, etc, without having to wait for the 6 o'clock news.basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company.
Do you have a problem with that and if so why?0 -
Shes Katie f*cking FitchCaptainBuzzkill said:0 -
Somebody showed for "academic" purposes how easy it was on the last anti-brexit one. They knocked up a script in a day and had it add loads of fake signatures, which werent removed. It is very easy to get huge numbers of email addresses, change ips, etc.nichomar said:
Where is you’re proof for that allegation? Just because you think you can sign it three hundred times using different names etc they get removed on a regular basis by cleaning softwarebasicbridge said:
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.OblitusSumMe said:
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
similar to that used in the direct mail industry. What you can do is sign twice with the same email address and different names as many couples share their email address.0 -
I think involving her at all at this time is unwise but I suspect Jo knows full well she won't get a meeting though I believe former Prime Ministers have always been able to seek an audience with HMQ if desired.dyedwoolie said:Lmao Trump is trolling Corbyn on Twitter.
Remainers have a problem, defying HMQ might lead to unintended consequences
Imagine Major, Blair, Cameron, Brown and May all going to see HMQ together and urging the prorogation be halted.0 -
Trump forgot to add Britain's "Socialist" Labour Party.....dr_spyn said:0 -
Thats what ive read - that there were possibly hundreds of thousands of fake and duplicated signatures. Is that not correct?OblitusSumMe said:
Have you any evidence that there were large numbers of fake/duplicate signatures to the previous petition that were not removed by the people who run the petition?basicbridge said:
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.OblitusSumMe said:
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
I suspect that you are simply repeating a comforting talking point so you do not have to face how split the country is, and how many people are strongly opposed to your position. (And, yes, Remainers also indulge in this sort of self-deception).0 -
Hmmm. I'm getting a bit concerned for Boris here. If the feeling grows that he's a No Deal zealot willing to destroy anything in his path, then public opinion could cool very rapidly. Of course, Boris wants to keep everyone seeing him as 'Boris - Man of the People versus parliament', but can he sustain that narrative or will it slip from his control? Risky.williamglenn said:0 -
You mean by actually writing a constitution, rather than pulling together a patchwork of precendents from different sources? That is just too modern for the UK.ab195 said:
You’re right, obviously (no sure on what basis anyone is disagreeing with you), but it will be fascinating to see it play out, and a lot of the public will be surprised to learn we live in a Parliamentary democracy.AlastairMeeks said:
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.Gabs2 said:
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.AlastairMeeks said:
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.nichomar said:
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.Byronic said:
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.not_on_fire said:
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amendedByronic said:
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)NickPalmer said:The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
I think one thing we’ve discovered from the last two years is how ancient our constitution looks when there isn’t a Gvt majority. The last time this was commonplace was more than 100 years ago, on a different time and when the very idea of democracy (as we now view it) was up for debate. Either way, we’re going to have to tidy it up.
0 -
It seems the biggest constitutional crisis since 1931 has driven Sterling down just over 0.5c. Headlines on the BBC of course.0
-
You are completely barking. It may be ignored, but you have no evidence it is rigged. Of course there will be some duplicates just as in any petition. It is a petition after all and not a poll. Checks are done to stop wholesale abuse. You are just making stuff up because you don't like it.basicbridge said:
A rigged petition even more so. Which are two reasons why it will be ignored.eristdoof said:
But it is a petition! Show me any petition which is a representative sample.basicbridge said:
Hmmmm.....and posting about it? I doubt it.williamglenn said:
You can easily reach a quarter of a million politically engaged people through social media, etc, without having to wait for the 6 o'clock news.basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company.
Do you actually think people were sitting around ready to kick off these fake posts at a moments notice.0 -
Are the timings there for him? If, as @HYUFD suggested, he needs an extension then he is toast as TBP will wipe the floor with him. Or can he fit an election in before Oct 31st?blueblue said:The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.0 -
It forces the issue, and it's about time.Pulpstar said:I think, and this is probably wrong as Bercow/Grieve might be able to come up with somthing or other to stop Johnson (Who knows) but actually it is going to come down to MPs choosing between a "No Deal" Brexit and installing Corbyn.
As @AndyJS notes, this is about making an unpalatable choice.
The WA was an unpalatable choice, but better than these options. MPs should have taken it, as Paul Masterton noted both sides can not be right.1 -
Asa Leaver, late 1950s would be my guess. Working up to the Notting Hill riots about too many immigrants...eristdoof said:
6 o'clock news? Which decade are you in?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.0 -
She will not be moved on this imo, now the decision is taken. Johnson of course would use such interventions as evidence of the establishment trying to subvert democracy and call for an election to crush the saboteursstodge said:
I think involving her at all at this time is unwise but I suspect Jo knows full well she won't get a meeting though I believe former Prime Ministers have always been able to seek an audience with HMQ if desired.dyedwoolie said:Lmao Trump is trolling Corbyn on Twitter.
Remainers have a problem, defying HMQ might lead to unintended consequences
Imagine Major, Blair, Cameron, Brown and May all going to see HMQ together and urging the prorogation be halted.0 -
Assuming this was done with the help of Number 10, they are clearly trying to goad Corbyn into calling a VONC.TGOHF said:0 -
Where did you read it?basicbridge said:
Thats what ive read - that there were possibly hundreds of thousands of fake and duplicated signatures. Is that not correct?OblitusSumMe said:
Have you any evidence that there were large numbers of fake/duplicate signatures to the previous petition that were not removed by the people who run the petition?basicbridge said:
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.OblitusSumMe said:
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
I suspect that you are simply repeating a comforting talking point so you do not have to face how split the country is, and how many people are strongly opposed to your position. (And, yes, Remainers also indulge in this sort of self-deception).-1 -
306,524FrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
0 -
-
I agree. The pro-EU side need to stop messing about with meaningless extensions and decide on a choice as to how they want to proceed.Sean_F said:
It forces the issue, and it's about time.Pulpstar said:I think, and this is probably wrong as Bercow/Grieve might be able to come up with somthing or other to stop Johnson (Who knows) but actually it is going to come down to MPs choosing between a "No Deal" Brexit and installing Corbyn.
As @AndyJS notes, this is about making an unpalatable choice.
The WA was an unpalatable choice, but better than these options. MPs should have taken it, as Paul Masterton noted both sides can not be right.0 -
A general election after a VoNC is on October 24th if Parliament moved quickly enough.TOPPING said:
Are the timings there for him? If, as @HYUFD suggested, he needs an extension then he is toast as TBP will wipe the floor with him. Or can he fit an election in before Oct 31st?blueblue said:The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.
Parliament won't as it makes more sense for Cooper Letwin 3 to be implemented.
0 -
And, conveniently, proroguing allows the WA to be brought back before Parliament (sans backstop, of course).Sean_F said:
It forces the issue, and it's about time.Pulpstar said:I think, and this is probably wrong as Bercow/Grieve might be able to come up with somthing or other to stop Johnson (Who knows) but actually it is going to come down to MPs choosing between a "No Deal" Brexit and installing Corbyn.
As @AndyJS notes, this is about making an unpalatable choice.
The WA was an unpalatable choice, but better than these options. MPs should have taken it, as Paul Masterton noted both sides can not be right.
0 -
If there's one thing that's really helpful in the battle for public opinion, it is insulting the other half of the public you are trying to persuade.Foxy said:
Asa Leaver, late 1950s would be my guess. Working up to the Notting Hill riots about too many immigrants...eristdoof said:
6 o'clock news? Which decade are you in?basicbridge said:Cicero said:
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.Pulpstar said:
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.TheScreamingEagles said:
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.0 -
Johnson? He's more likely to run a mile from an election.basicbridge said:What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...0 -
With your avatar? Your concern for Boris is touching - if a little unconvincing.....Stark_Dawning said:
Hmmm. I'm getting a bit concerned for Boris here. If the feeling grows that he's a No Deal zealot willing to destroy anything in his path, then public opinion could cool very rapidly. Of course, Boris wants to keep everyone seeing him as 'Boris - Man of the People versus parliament', but can he sustain that narrative or will it slip from his control? Risky.williamglenn said:0 -
The "PARLIAMENT SUSPENDED" banners across the TV newswires don't help either. Gives a sense of there being some kind of untoward activity.Stark_Dawning said:
Hmmm. I'm getting a bit concerned for Boris here. If the feeling grows that he's a No Deal zealot willing to destroy anything in his path, then public opinion could cool very rapidly. Of course, Boris wants to keep everyone seeing him as 'Boris - Man of the People versus parliament', but can he sustain that narrative or will it slip from his control? Risky.williamglenn said:0 -
This should be the strategy. Refuse to VONC, but force extension. Only VONC if he refuses to enforce the extension OR after extension. That way his beloved show of strength is shown to be force. If Johnson cannot do it on WILL alone, then he will actually have to create a plan and explain it to the public. This will not win him a GE.blueblue said:The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.0 -
The inspector general's report into the FISA requests hits Barrs desk this week apparently I expect it to throw things into the air somewhat.Andrew said:
-18% net approval for Trump in the same poll, which is horrendous.Alistair said:
Those are astoundingly dreadful numbers.
Quinnipac have a great record lately too.0 -
The schema of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act makes it clear what is expected to happen in the 14 day period (the name of the Act is a big clue). A vote of no confidence is supposed to be an opportunity for Parliament to change governments, not a different way for the Prime Minister to engineer an early election - a specific and more demanding route is set out for that. Any attempt by the Prime Minister to subvert that, particularly for the collateral purpose of imposing a policy on the country that he could not secure through Parliamentary vote, would be reviewable by the courts.Gabs2 said:
The appointmemt is not expired but the conventions are obviously different immediately after an election compared to the middle of a term.AlastairMeeks said:
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.Gabs2 said:
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.AlastairMeeks said:
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.nichomar said:
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.Byronic said:
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.not_on_fire said:
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amended
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
And it is certainly far from hopeful. The best approach is an extension and a deal. You seem unable to differentiate between what someone thinks is the situation to what they want as the situation.
You are happy to conjure up extra-statutory convention as something legally enforceable when you so wish, yet disregard Parliament's intent when it suits you. You make ridiculous argument after ridiculous argument in favour of Leave positions, while pretending to be a Remain supporters, apparently in the belief that will give your dumb arguments more weight. Why?0 -
In the event of a post-VoNC GE are there any Tory remain rebels who would have the neck to stand on a leaving manifesto?
0 -
Still, at least the PM doesn't yet have the power to pardon...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/take-the-land-president-trump-wants-a-border-wall-he-wants-it-black-and-he-wants-it-by-election-day/2019/08/27/37b80018-c821-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html
President Trump is so eager to complete hundreds of miles of border fence ahead of the 2020 presidential election that he has directed aides to fast-track billions of dollars’ worth of construction contracts, aggressively seize private land and disregard environmental rules, according to current and former officials involved with the project.
He also has told worried subordinates that he will pardon them of any potential wrongdoing should they have to break laws to get the barriers built quickly, those officials said....0 -
Trump is only doing this because he knows that the UK is now his bitch. At least Obama had the good grace to treat us as equals.MarqueeMark said:
Trump forgot to add Britain's "Socialist" Labour Party.....dr_spyn said:0 -
and Trump is toxic waste in the UK... I think Cummings is going to blow it.williamglenn said:
Assuming this was done with the help of Number 10, they are clearly trying to goad Corbyn into calling a VONC.TGOHF said:0 -
I note that Jo Swinson is not a privy counsellor.
Does this matter?0 -
The Dem field may finally be about to winnow :
Joe Biden 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Pete Buttigieg 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Kamala Harris 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Bernie Sanders 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Elizabeth Warren 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Cory Booker 11 ✓ ✓ ✓
Beto O’Rourke 9 ✓ ✓ ✓
Amy Klobuchar 6 ✓ ✓ ✓
Julián Castro 5 ✓ ✓ ✓
Andrew Yang 5 ✓ ✓ ✓
Tom Steyer is closist to 11th, and it looks like my speculative £2 on Marianne Williamson at 500-1 or some such will fall.
Tulsi Gabbard also due to miss out on a debate spot. Though I must thank her for pushing Harris' price right out.
The rest have no polls and no donors. (Well Gilibrand has 1 qualifying poll).
I suspect the DNC will be happy to have the field down to what looks like 10.0 -
“Back of the queue”? What a way to treat equals.TOPPING said:
Trump is only doing this because he knows that the UK is now his bitch. At least Obama had the good grace to treat us as equals.MarqueeMark said:
Trump forgot to add Britain's "Socialist" Labour Party.....dr_spyn said:
0 -
Epstein's lawyers now suggesting it was murder:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/459091-lawyers-evidence-shows-epstein-death-far-more-consistent-with0 -
....as long as we did his bidding and voted to stay in the EU.TOPPING said:
Trump is only doing this because he knows that the UK is now his bitch. At least Obama had the good grace to treat us as equals.MarqueeMark said:
Trump forgot to add Britain's "Socialist" Labour Party.....dr_spyn said:0 -
If you're treating everyone as equals, then there's no queue jumping.RobD said:
“Back of the queue”? What a way to treat equals.TOPPING said:
Trump is only doing this because he knows that the UK is now his bitch. At least Obama had the good grace to treat us as equals.MarqueeMark said:
Trump forgot to add Britain's "Socialist" Labour Party.....dr_spyn said:0
