politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Punters pile on to a 2019 general election in reaction to John
Comments
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They're wrong. The role always 'attends cabinet', whether it is a full cabinet member varies with each cabinet. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.GIN1138 said:
I thought someone said he's out the cabinet?MaxPB said:
It's not a demotion, though. He's basically minister for no deal prep.GIN1138 said:
Cummings wouldn't have agreed to Gove's demotion would he? Or have they fallen out?MaxPB said:
I don't know, it feels like a Cummings job. One chance to have a revolution so use it etc...Richard_Nabavi said:I don't think this is a Cummings cabinet. More a Gavin Williamson job.
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Can I gently suggest you look up the concept of separation. And stop trying to be personal because you are making an arse of yourself.YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other than that of an occasional visitor.
Why you are seeking to delegitimise my voice on the basis of your own Cumbrian purity test I don’t know. But then excluding people on the basis of purity tests seems to be in vogue these days.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
I mainly talk about my London garden. I don’t yet have a Cumbrian garden. I hope to. And a kitchen too.
This discussion is now closed as far as I’m concerned.0 -
So you felt qualified to speak for the northern Irish despite being an incomer Welshman?YBarddCwsc said:
Of course. Bangor.TOPPING said:
Come on, bed beckons. Get on with it.YBarddCwsc said:
You mean Brycheiniog, I think.TOPPING said:
I thought you were in NI at some point?YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other than that of an occasional visitor.
Why you are seeking to delegitimise my voice on the basis of your own Cumbrian purity test I don’t know. But then excluding people on the basis of purity tests seems to be in vogue these days.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
Edit: unless you were talking about Brecon LOL.
Please for my sanity tell me that you were in NI for a long long time because you presumed to speak for the northern Irish just after admonishing a poster for speaking about Cumbria while not being sufficiently resident there.
Irony has eaten itself. As they say.
Edit: and a thousand times worse to lecture others on not belonging.0 -
A Japanese paper sums it up perfectly .
“A model nation swallowed up by populism . “
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Having driven it yesterday I can vouch for the fact its a great way to get out of Scotland.TOPPING said:
So a great place if you want to leave it?Gallowgate said:
Cumbria has the wonderful 6 lane M6 and Northumberland has the pathetic 1.5 lane A1.dixiedean said:
Indeed it is beautiful. Like a rainy Northumberlandnotme2 said:
I’m a one home owner in Cumbria. A lovely part of the world.YBarddCwsc said:
You are free to say what you like.Cyclefree said:
I can and do speak out of my own experience. And I do have experience of West Cumbria. You do not know what that is and yet you have the arrogance to tell me what I can and cannot say.YBarddCwsc said:
The point is Cyclefree hasn't left Hampstead yet.TOPPING said:
Yeah! Send her back.YBarddCwsc said:
Yes, I remember your explanation well. You changed your tune when I pointed out what the electoral law was about second home owners voting (a major problem in parts of Wales).Cyclefree said:
Dear me. I explained this a while back. I do not have a vote in Trudy Harrison’s constituency but my husband and daughter do. Daughter will not vote Tory under any circumstances and husband now won’t. He did before. So that’s one vote lost. I am in the process of moving so, depending on when the election is held, I will have a vote. It will not be for the Tories.
I know and like Trudy. But her majority is ca. 2000. A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard. Whatever her good local work she cannot count on that saving her.
Does this Cabinet look like one which gives a damn about the people of West Cumbria? Do they even know where it is or what life is like there? I doubt it.
I had suggested you were a second home owner, and you said you indignantly were not. You owned a house in Hampstead and your husband owned a house in Copeland !!!!
And you pontificate on here about the lack of straightforwardness of our political masters !!!!!!
You may or may not be right that "A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard". You may or may not be right that this Cabinet "does not give a damn about Cumbria".
But, I would rather hear that from the people of Cumbria. Let them speak for themselves. They don't need help from London, or even from very recently arrived imports to Cumbria.
So, she can't really speak for Cumbria.
But, you are a second home owner in Cumbria, and that clearly makes your viewpoint very different to the typical resident.
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The betting market on first cabinet minister to leave should be fun.0
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I quoted a poem on belonging by an Irishman. I reported the sentiments in that poem.TOPPING said:
So you felt qualified to speak for the northern Irish despite being an incomer Welshman?YBarddCwsc said:
Of course. Bangor.TOPPING said:
Come on, bed beckons. Get on with it.YBarddCwsc said:
You mean Brycheiniog, I think.TOPPING said:
I thought you were in NI at some point?YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other than that of an occasional visitor.
Why you are seeking to delegitimise my voice on the basis of your own Cumbrian purity test I don’t know. But then excluding people on the basis of purity tests seems to be in vogue these days.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
Edit: unless you were talking about Brecon LOL.
Please for my sanity tell me that you were in NI for a long long time because you presumed to speak for the northern Irish just after admonishing a poster for speaking about Cumbria while not being sufficiently resident there.
Irony has eaten itself. As they say.
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Bangor is in Northern Ireland...TOPPING said:
So you felt qualified to speak for the northern Irish despite being an incomer Welshman?YBarddCwsc said:
Of course. Bangor.TOPPING said:
Come on, bed beckons. Get on with it.YBarddCwsc said:
You mean Brycheiniog, I think.TOPPING said:
I thought you were in NI at some point?YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other than that of an occasional visitor.
Why you are seeking to delegitimise my voice on the basis of your own Cumbrian purity test I don’t know. But then excluding people on the basis of purity tests seems to be in vogue these days.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
Edit: unless you were talking about Brecon LOL.
Please for my sanity tell me that you were in NI for a long long time because you presumed to speak for the northern Irish just after admonishing a poster for speaking about Cumbria while not being sufficiently resident there.
Irony has eaten itself. As they say.
Edit: and a thousand times worse to lecture others on not belonging.
(beats a hasty retreat after making a factual point not wanting to take sides in the argument)0 -
No, she went of her own accord.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course. Bangor.TOPPING said:
Come on, bed beckons. Get on with it.YBarddCwsc said:
You mean Brycheiniog, I think.TOPPING said:
I thought you were in NI at some point?YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other than that of an occasional visitor.
Why you are seeking to delegitimise my voice on the basis of your own Cumbrian purity test I don’t know. But then excluding people on the basis of purity tests seems to be in vogue these days.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
Edit: unless you were talking about Brecon LOL.
Please for my sanity tell me that you were in NI for a long long time because you presumed to speak for the northern Irish just after admonishing a poster for speaking about Cumbria while not being sufficiently resident there.0 -
Why would it? Give me one reason why the UK can't be a separate nation from the EU yet Canada can be separate from the USA and Pakistan can be separate from India.williamglenn said:
It ticks the "Brexit will be an abject failure" box, so from a Remain perspective, keep pursuing it.Philip_Thompson said:
No, FTA. We wouldn't have left the Single Market in the EEA.williamglenn said:
Vote Leave said "there is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."Philip_Thompson said:
No, it didn't.Gallowgate said:
That’s my point. The campaign said everything and anything.Philip_Thompson said:
You mean like saying that leaving the EU would mean leaving the Single Market an Customs Union?Gallowgate said:
You should have been honest and campaigned for what leaving the EU would actually mean rather than making up a load of bullshit.Philip_Thompson said:
The EU is a nascent nation state. That is the stated goal of the EU's constitution, its founding members, its leading politicians. It is reality. It is already far more integrated than the USA was 200 years ago.OnboardG1 said:This is also a classically disingenous argument because it assumes an association of states that pool sovereignty on issues of trade and customs is equivalent to a nation state of its own, which it most certainly is not. It's like saying that because NATO is a pooling of military resources we're part of the USA (a very silly argument I have had with comrades in the past).
It is disingenuous to view the EU as like NATO. As far as I can tell NATO doesn't unilaterally write new laws and have new laws apply to all its members whether they want them or not, NATO is a series of commitments and obligations we've made in full advance knowledge and we can choose to exit at any time if we choose to do so.
The question isn't if we want to have "an association of states" it is "do we want a country called Europe". If so, be honest and campaign for it - as Ken Clarke and Williamglenn do.
Those in glass houses.
That was done honestly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs
The campaign said we would leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, regain control of our laws and borders and seek a trade deal with the EU.
In other words a Canada-style deal. Should not be impossible to achieve.
In other words the EEA.
An FTA ticks every box.0 -
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA0 -
Huh? Driving? To near Grantham? Surely you should have been on the LNER looking out over Berwick. One of the truly great train journeys.Richard_Tyndall said:
Having driven it yesterday I can vouch for the fact its a great way to get out of Scotland.TOPPING said:
So a great place if you want to leave it?Gallowgate said:
Cumbria has the wonderful 6 lane M6 and Northumberland has the pathetic 1.5 lane A1.dixiedean said:
Indeed it is beautiful. Like a rainy Northumberlandnotme2 said:
I’m a one home owner in Cumbria. A lovely part of the world.YBarddCwsc said:
You are free to say what you like.Cyclefree said:
I can and do speak out of my own experience. And I do have experience of West Cumbria. You do not know what that is and yet you have the arrogance to tell me what I can and cannot say.YBarddCwsc said:
The point is Cyclefree hasn't left Hampstead yet.TOPPING said:
Yeah! Send her back.YBarddCwsc said:
Yes, I remember your explanation well. You changed your tune when I pointed out what the electoral law was about second home owners voting (a major problem in parts of Wales).Cyclefree said:
Dear me. I explained this a while back. I do not have a vote in Trudy Harrison’s constituency but my husband and daughter do. Daughter will not vote Tory under any circums, depending on when the election is held, I will have a vote. It will not be for the Tories.
I know and like Trudy. But her majority is ca. 2000. A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard. Whatever her good local work she cannot count on that saving her.
Does this Cabinet look like one which gives a damn about the people of West Cumbria? Do they even know where it is or what life is like there? I doubt it.
I had suggested you were a second home owner, and you said you indignantly were not. You owned a house in Hampstead and your husband owned a house in Copeland !!!!
And you pontificate on here about the lack of straightforwardness of our political masters !!!!!!
You may or may not be right that "A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard". You may or may not be right that this Cabinet "does not give a damn about Cumbria".
But, I would rather hear that from the people of Cumbria. Let them speak for themselves. They don't need help from London, or even from very recently arrived imports to Cumbria.
So, she can't really speak for Cumbria.
But, you are a second home owner in Cumbria, and that clearly makes your viewpoint very different to the typical resident.0 -
I would like to see a market on when/if Boris will lose more ministers than May.Richard_Nabavi said:The betting market on first cabinet minister to leave should be fun.
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Yet Boris appoints JRM who runs a Hedge fund that has bet against Britain? I hope LD get stuck into JRM & Boris on this!nico67 said:Given Bozos jingoistic rhetoric today I expect he’ll soon go full Trump and portray those refusing to back his right wing coup as traitors and against Britain and the right wing press will peddle this.
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Love how Boris has just totally written off the last three years of Theresa May like it never happened.
It's like when Pam woke up from her nightmare in Dallas and an entire season was just written off.
Now for The Last Jedi?
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Ha! That was my point. His/her user name sounds Welsh and he was therefore an incomer into NI telling me about "his" roads (quoting Heaney) ie speaking on behalf of the northern Irish and then having the temerity to lecture others on being incomers and not being qualified to opine on where they lived.Richard_Tyndall said:
Bangor is in Northern Ireland...TOPPING said:
So you felt qualified to speak for the northern Irish despite being an incomer Welshman?YBarddCwsc said:
Of course. Bangor.TOPPING said:
Come on, bed beckons. Get on with it.YBarddCwsc said:
You mean Brycheiniog, I think.TOPPING said:
I thought you were in NI at some point?YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other than that of an occasional visitor.
Why you are seeking to delegitimise my voice on the basis of your own Cumbrian purity test I don’t know. But then excluding people on the basis of purity tests seems to be in vogue these days.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
Edit: unless you were talking about Brecon LOL.
Please for my sanity tell me that you were in NI for a long long time because you presumed to speak for the northern Irish just after admonishing a poster for speaking about Cumbria while not being sufficiently resident there.
Irony has eaten itself. As they say.
Edit: and a thousand times worse to lecture others on not belonging.
(beats a hasty retreat after making a factual point not wanting to take sides in the argument)0 -
Apparently Boris' favourite film scene it was reported he told a journalist today was the Baptism scene in the Godfather where Michael Corleone's henchmen kill off his rivals in a revenge attack while his son is being baptised. Today you can see whyGIN1138 said:Love how Boris has just totally written off the last three years like it never happened.
It's like when Pam woke up from her nightmare in Dallas and an entire season was just written off.
Now for The Last Jedi?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUgg-HjyxBI1 -
Bangor is of course in Wales (as well as N Ireland).TOPPING said:
Ha! That was my point. His/her user name sounds Welsh and he was therefore an incomer into NI telling me about "his" roads (quoting Heaney) having the temerity to lecture others on being incomers.Richard_Tyndall said:
Bangor is in Northern Ireland...TOPPING said:
So you felt qualified to speak for the northern Irish despite being an incomer Welshman?YBarddCwsc said:
Of course. Bangor.TOPPING said:
Come on, bed beckons. Get on with it.YBarddCwsc said:
You mean Brycheiniog, I think.TOPPING said:
I thought you were in NI at some point?YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other than that of an occasional visitor.
Why you are seeking to delegitimise my voice on the basis of your own Cumbrian purity test I don’t know. But then excluding people on the basis of purity tests seems to be in vogue these days.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
Edit: unless you were talking about Brecon LOL.
Please for my sanity tell me that you were in NI for a long long time because you presumed to speak for the northern Irish just after admonishing a poster for speaking about Cumbria while not being sufficiently resident there.
Irony has eaten itself. As they say.
Edit: and a thousand times worse to lecture others on not belonging.
(beats a hasty retreat after making a factual point not wanting to take sides in the argument)
I quoted a poem by Seamus Heaney on "his roads", and the intrusion of outsiders.
I am not an incomer in N Ireland.0 -
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA0 -
Posting without comment, as I am rapidly losing the will to live:
" Sorry, let’s just stop for a second and savour that thought, shall we? Boris PM - yay! Our very own columnist who has entertained, galvanised and crikey-ed within these pages for so long, finally has the chance to put into practice what he has preached. I reckon critics who have accused him of a lack of seriousness would struggle to find fault with his first premier-league performance."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/24/urgent-pulsing-plucky-boris-factor-remind-us-true-leadership/0 -
We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party0
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So you were speaking on behalf of the northern Irish but chastising @Cyclefree for speaking on behalf of the Cumbrians?YBarddCwsc said:
Bangor is of course in Wales (as well as N Ireland).TOPPING said:
Ha! That was my point. His/her user name sounds Welsh and he was therefore an incomer into NI telling me about "his" roads (quoting Heaney) having the temerity to lecture others on being incomers.Richard_Tyndall said:
Bangor is in Northern Ireland...TOPPING said:
So you felt qualified to speak for the northern Irish despite being an incomer Welshman?YBarddCwsc said:
Of course. Bangor.TOPPING said:
Come on, bed beckons. Get on with it.YBarddCwsc said:
You mean Brycheiniog, I think.TOPPING said:
I thought you were in NI at some point?YBarddCwsc said:
I am sorry to get unduly personal, but you have reported at length on this blog on your Cumbrian garden and your Cumbrian kitchen.Cyclefree said:
Do you have some difficulty with the English language?
I am not a second home owner in Cumbria. As I have now told you several times.
My husband is a full-time resident there. Has been for years. As is my daughter, who owns and runs her own business, employing 4 people. I have a share in that business.
That gives me a viewpoint which is something other thdays.
And you own a house in Hampstead.
As far as I can see, you own two homes.
Your argument is that you own a home in Hampstead and your husband owns the home in Cumbria.
Well, all right, if you wish for such sophistry, then as a family the Cyclefrees own two homes. Most families own one home.
Except for those who are homeless.
All this is relevant, because second home owners have a different perspective than single home owners. And this I know all too well from Wales.
I have not "de-legitimised" your voice. I have said it is different to a long-term resident who owns a single home in Cumbria.
Edit: unless you were talking about Brecon LOL.
Please for my sanity tell me that you were in NI for a long long time because yng about Cumbria while not being sufficiently resident there.
Irony has eaten itself. As they say.
Edit: and a thousand times worse to lecture others on not belonging.
(beats a hasty retreat after making a factual point not wanting to take sides in the argument)
I quoted a poem by Seamus Heaney on "his roads", and the intrusion of outsiders.
I am not an incomer in N Ireland.
Am I missing something?
Edit: you said you didn't want to be kept safe or somesuch when I said I was keeping you safe in NI.0 -
On the plus side, she's a red rag to the bull that is Labour members/supporters looking for Israel-sponsored conspiracy theories.Drutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA
On the minus side... lots. Including the kernel of truth behind those conspiracy theories.0 -
Totally disagree SO - the cabinet is far superior to the previous collection of nodding head grey dullards.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
I was bored driving up the M6, so I swung through Alston, on the Pennines, Lanercost (Roman Wall and ancient priory), Bewcastle (Anglo Saxon cross), then crossed into Scotland at Newcastleton and Hermitage Castle. It took all day and was real badlands. Useful route to know when Scotland closes its border to English refugees from Brexit.TOPPING said:
Huh? Driving? To near Grantham? Surely you should have been on the LNER looking out over Berwick. One of the truly great train journeys.Richard_Tyndall said:
Having driven it yesterday I can vouch for the fact its a great way to get out of Scotland.0 -
O/T
It's 31 degrees in Paris right now, at 1 in the morning.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/paris/623/current-weather/6230 -
Only if every box means a much worse deal than we have now.Philip_Thompson said:
No, FTA. We wouldn't have left the Single Market in the EEA.williamglenn said:
Vote Leave said "there is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."Philip_Thompson said:
No, it didn't.Gallowgate said:
That’s my point. The campaign said everything and anything.Philip_Thompson said:
You mean like saying that leaving the EU would mean leaving the Single Market an Customs Union?Gallowgate said:
You should have been honest and campaigned for what leaving the EU would actually mean rather than making up a load of bullshit.Philip_Thompson said:
The EU is a nascent nation state. That is the stated goal of the EU's constitution, its founding members, its leading politicians. It is reality. It is already far more integrated than the USA was 200 years ago.OnboardG1 said:This is also a classically disingenous argument because it assumes an association of states that pool sovereignty on issues of trade and customs is equivalent to a nation state of its own, which it most certainly is not. It's like saying that because NATO is a pooling of military resources we're part of the USA (a very silly argument I have had with comrades in the past).
It is disingenuous to view the EU as like NATO. As far as I can tell NATO doesn't unilaterally write new laws and have new laws apply to all its members whether they want them or not, NATO is a series of commitments and obligations we've made in full advance knowledge and we can choose to exit at any time if we choose to do so.
The question isn't if we want to have "an association of states" it is "do we want a country called Europe". If so, be honest and campaign for it - as Ken Clarke and Williamglenn do.
Those in glass houses.
That was done honestly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs
The campaign said we would leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, regain control of our laws and borders and seek a trade deal with the EU.
In other words a Canada-style deal. Should not be impossible to achieve.
In other words the EEA.
An FTA ticks every box.
0 -
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
Is this really David Mellor? I like his new style if so.
https://twitter.com/GRALambo/status/11541011618987089920 -
Have your doubts about Boris been soothed?TGOHF said:
Totally disagree SO - the cabinet is far superior to the previous collection of nodding head grey dullards.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
AndyJS said:
Is this really David Mellor? I like his new style if so.
https://twitter.com/GRALambo/status/1154101161898708992
0 -
The new government can do a lot worse than that. Which is why May's government didn't in the end do itMarqueeMark said:
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
I know.TOPPING said:
Huh? Driving? To near Grantham? Surely you should have been on the LNER looking out over Berwick. One of the truly great train journeys.
I always use the train normally to go to eastern Scotland but I am having to stay up in Aberdeen for few months on a contract and I am staying with a friend out in the sticks so need a car up there to get to the clients office.
Hence the need to drive up and down at the moment. Not something I would otherwise choose to do.
Strangely I do not travel up and down the same way. Going up I always like to go via Jedburgh on the Eastern side and coming back down I always use the supposedly quicker M73/M6/A66 route which google and the Sat Nav say is quicker in spite of being longer.0 -
This will age really well.TGOHF said:
Totally disagree SO - the cabinet is far superior to the previous collection of nodding head grey dullards.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
If by superior you mean containing an even higher quotient of dullards, liars and security risks I completely agree.TGOHF said:
Totally disagree SO - the cabinet is far superior to the previous collection of nodding head grey dullards.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
Can't be - not wearing the Chelsea strip.....AndyJS said:Is this really David Mellor? I like his new style if so.
https://twitter.com/GRALambo/status/11541011618987089920 -
In some respects even worse position than Labour, which has talented on back bench who jezza wont use.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
I thought his favourite film was the one on his laptop, the one he did not want the woman involved in the row in his flat to see "Get off my fucking laptop etc!" What exactly was he doing on the furniture he so carelessly stained?HYUFD said:
Apparently Boris' favourite film scene it was reported he told a journalist today was the Baptism scene in the Godfather where Michael Corleone's henchmen kill off his rivals in a revenge attack while his son is being baptised. Today you can see whyGIN1138 said:Love how Boris has just totally written off the last three years like it never happened.
It's like when Pam woke up from her nightmare in Dallas and an entire season was just written off.
Now for The Last Jedi?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUgg-HjyxBI0 -
I was quoting a poem by an Irishman (I am not Irish).TOPPING said:
So you were speaking on behalf of the northern Irish but chastising @Cyclefree for speaking on behalf of the Cumbrians?
Am I missing something?
It is like quoting Shakespeare (I am not English) or the Bible (I am not Jewish) or Tolstoy (I am not Russian).
The poem (as all good poetry should) transcends place and time. The poem is about the importance of belonging to a place, the importance of tradition and history..
As I was making a direct quote, I used these things: " ".
That means, just to spell it out, I was directly quoting from someone else, I wasn't making words up and putting them in the mouths of an Irishman, or speaking on behalf of the Irish.
It is an Irishman, talking about the Irish experience.
That is an opinion I value. A Cumbrian talking about Cumbria. An Irishman talking about Ireland.
0 -
Yes and it's unbearable!AndyJS said:O/T
It's 31 degrees in Paris right now, at 1 in the morning.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/paris/623/current-weather/6230 -
He probably only wares that when he is going to score....MarqueeMark said:
Can't be - not wearing the Chelsea strip.....AndyJS said:Is this really David Mellor? I like his new style if so.
https://twitter.com/GRALambo/status/11541011618987089921 -
Is that like Corbyn being present, but not involved?MikeL said:Jo Johnson NOT in the Cabinet.
Attending Cabinet but not in it.1 -
The bar isn’t high- the only thing the previous cabinet achieved was pissing off the nation.rottenborough said:
This will age really well.TGOHF said:
Totally disagree SO - the cabinet is far superior to the previous collection of nodding head grey dullards.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
This edition will do far better.0 -
https://twitter.com/LauraRound/status/1154101419005423616
Is 13 the right price for next leader for Mordaunt?0 -
Is anyone still saying that leaving without a WA is a manifesto commitment in the absence of a deal?FF43 said:
The new government can do a lot worse than that. Which is why May's government didn't in the end do itMarqueeMark said:
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
Wrong.
It's a treaty obligation.0 -
1. Short-termism .Philip_Thompson said:
Why would it? Give me one reason why the UK can't be a separate nation from the EU yet Canada can be separate from the USA and Pakistan can be separate from India.williamglenn said:
It ticks the "Brexit will be an abject failure" box, so from a Remain perspective, keep pursuing it.Philip_Thompson said:
No, FTA. We wouldn't have left the Single Market in the EEA.williamglenn said:
Vote Leave said "there is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."Philip_Thompson said:
No, it didn't.Gallowgate said:
That’s my point. The campaign said everything and anything.Philip_Thompson said:
You mean like saying that leaving the EU would mean leaving the Single Market an Customs Union?Gallowgate said:
You should have been honest and campaigned for what leaving the EU would actually mean rather than making up a load of bullshit.Philip_Thompson said:OnboardG1 said:This is also a classically disingenous argument because it assumes an association of states that pool sovereignty on issues of trade and customs is equivalent to a nation state of its own, which it most certainly is not. It's like saying that because NATO is a pooling of military resources we're part of the USA (a very silly argument I have had with comrades in the past).
Those in glass houses.
That was done honestly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs
The campaign said we would leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, regain control of our laws and borders and seek a trade deal with the EU.
In other words a Canada-style deal. Should not be impossible to achieve.
In other words the EEA.
An FTA ticks every box.
2. Lack of productivity.
3. Lack of investment in economy transforming to post industrial.
4. The approach of the demographic time bomb.
5. Our labour rates in globalised economy pricing us out the market.
6. Accustomed to welfare and NHS we will increasingly struggle to afford.
7. Housing crisis.
It’s not gloom mongering it’s just plain realism that will give way to absolute anger at lack of preparation and action on these issues.
You give one example how UK leaving the EU we built to help us acts as a silver bullet to any of these problems?0 -
That's what you guys claimed three years ago. You lost.SouthamObserver said:
Only if every box means a much worse deal than we have now.Philip_Thompson said:
No, FTA. We wouldn't have left the Single Market in the EEA.williamglenn said:
Vote Leave said "there is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."Philip_Thompson said:
No, it didn't.Gallowgate said:
That’s my point. The campaign said everything and anything.Philip_Thompson said:
You mean like saying that leaving the EU would mean leaving the Single Market an Customs Union?Gallowgate said:
You should have been honest and campaigned for what leaving the EU would actually mean rather than making up a load of bullshit.Philip_Thompson said:
The EU is a nascent nation state. That is the stated goal of the EU's constitution, its founding members, its leading politicians. It is reality. It is already far more integrated than the USA was 200 years ago.OnboardG1 said:This is also a classically disingenous argument because it assumes an association of states that pool sovereignty on issues of trade and customs is equivalent to a nation state of its own, which it most certainly is not. It's like saying that because NATO is a pooling of military resources we're part of the USA (a very silly argument I have had with comrades in the past).
It is disingenuous to view the EU as like NATO. As far as I can tell NATO doesn't unilaterally write new laws and have new laws apply to all its members whether they want them or not, NATO is a series of commitments and obligations we've made in full advance knowledge and we can choose to exit at any time if we choose to do so.
The question isn't if we want to have "an association of states" it is "do we want a country called Europe". If so, be honest and campaign for it - as Ken Clarke and Williamglenn do.
Those in glass houses.
That was done honestly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs
The campaign said we would leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, regain control of our laws and borders and seek a trade deal with the EU.
In other words a Canada-style deal. Should not be impossible to achieve.
In other words the EEA.
An FTA ticks every box.
An FTA is consistent with every single claim Vote Leave made.0 -
May did get a deal with the EU, which Boris voted in favour of. What it failed to do was get a deal with the EU which would get through the Commons.MarqueeMark said:
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
So you were equating the British army in NI with @Cyclefree having a home in Cumbria.YBarddCwsc said:
I was quoting a poem by an Irishman (I am not Irish).TOPPING said:
So you were speaking on behalf of the northern Irish but chastising @Cyclefree for speaking on behalf of the Cumbrians?
Am I missing something?
It is like quoting Shakespeare (I am not English) or the Bible (I am not Jewish) or Tolstoy (I am not Russian).
The poem (as all good poetry should) transcends place and time. The poem is about the importance of belonging to a place, the importance of tradition and history..
As I was making a direct quote, I used these things: " ".
That means, just to spell it out, I was directly quoting from someone else, I wasn't making words up and putting them in the mouths of an Irishman, or speaking on behalf of the Irish.
It is an Irishman, talking about the Irish experience.
That is an opinion I value. A Cumbrian talking about Cumbria. An Irishman talking about Ireland.
Got it.
Nite.0 -
0
-
Which by the look of him isn't very often these days...The_Taxman said:
He probably only wares that when he is going to score....MarqueeMark said:
Can't be - not wearing the Chelsea strip.....AndyJS said:Is this really David Mellor? I like his new style if so.
https://twitter.com/GRALambo/status/11541011618987089920 -
Boris has at least made my voting decision clearer with this cabinet - vote for whatever party has the best chance of kicking him out, everything else is secondary. Can't see how he survives for long at all without an election. Hes done the political equivalent of the new alpha lion culling all the existing cubs. Lots of enemies and he's finally nailed his colours to the mast now. His initial speech about optimism long forgotten already.0
-
I don't see how any of those prevent the UK being an independent nation.Zephyr said:1. Short-termism .
2. Lack of productivity.
3. Lack of investment in economy transforming to post industrial.
4. The approach of the demographic time bomb.
5. Our labour rates in globalised economy pricing us out the market.
6. Accustomed to welfare and NHS we will increasingly struggle to afford.
7. Housing crisis.
It’s not gloom mongering it’s just plain realism that will give way to absolute anger at lack of preparation and action on these issues.
You give one example how UK leaving the EU we built to help us acts as a silver bullet to any of these problems?
Leaving the EU helps us with these problems by forcing our politicians to actually address our problems rather than pass the buck blaming Brussels for our own issues. It is like a bird being pushed out of its nest because its time to fly.0 -
0
-
I'm saying leaving without a deal is worse than not leaving the EU, which is why May didn't do it.Drutt said:
Is anyone still saying that leaving without a WA is a manifesto commitment in the absence of a deal?FF43 said:
The new government can do a lot worse than that. Which is why May's government didn't in the end do itMarqueeMark said:
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
Wrong.
It's a treaty obligation.0 -
A deal so dreadful it can't get through the Commons is nothing to be proud about.kle4 said:
May did get a deal with the EU, which Boris voted in favour of. What it failed to do was get a deal with the EU which would get through the Commons.MarqueeMark said:
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
We need to either get a new deal that can be taken through the Commons, or leave without a deal, or have an election to elect a new Commons that can ratify a choice.
May wasn't prepared or able to do any of those which is why she failed. Boris looks happy to do any of them.0 -
That is lovely country. And yes, badlands. As remote as you can get in England. And remote from the Cabinet...although I may not be able to comment as I haven't lived in any of those places.FF43 said:
I was bored driving up the M6, so I swung through Alston, on the Pennines, Lanercost (Roman Wall and ancient priory), Bewcastle (Anglo Saxon cross), then crossed into Scotland at Newcastleton and Hermitage Castle. It took all day and was real badlands. Useful route to know when Scotland closes its border to English refugees from Brexit.TOPPING said:
Huh? Driving? To near Grantham? Surely you should have been on the LNER looking out over Berwick. One of the truly great train journeys.Richard_Tyndall said:
Having driven it yesterday I can vouch for the fact its a great way to get out of Scotland.0 -
Will piss off the nation, the EU, and perhaps beyond?TGOHF said:
The bar isn’t high- the only thing the previous cabinet achieved was pissing off the nation.rottenborough said:
This will age really well.TGOHF said:
Totally disagree SO - the cabinet is far superior to the previous collection of nodding head grey dullards.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
This edition will do far better.0 -
No, it is not consistent with all the benefits of EU membership and none of the downsides, because we hold all the cards and they need us more than we need them, which was the central Leave proposition.Philip_Thompson said:
That's what you guys claimed three years ago. You lost.SouthamObserver said:
Only if every box means a much worse deal than we have now.Philip_Thompson said:
No, FTA. We wouldn't have left the Single Market in the EEA.williamglenn said:
Vote Leave said "there is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."Philip_Thompson said:
No, it didn't.Gallowgate said:
That’s my point. The campaign said everything and anything.Philip_Thompson said:
You mean like saying that leaving the EU would mean leaving the Single Market an Customs Union?Gallowgate said:
You should have been honest and campaigned for what leaving the EU would actually mean rather than making up a load of bullshit.Philip_Thompson said:
The EU is a nascent nation state. That is the stated goal of the EU's constitution, its founding members, its leading politicians. It is reality. It is already far more integrated than the USA was 200 years ago.OnboardG1 said:This is also a classically disingenous argument because it assumes an association of states that pool sovereignty on issues of trade and customs is equivalent to a nation state of its own, which it most certainly is not. It's like saying that because NATO is a pooling of military resources we're part of the USA (a very silly argument I have had with comrades in the past).
It is disingenuous to view the EU as like NATOat any time if we choose to do so.
The question isn't if we want to have "an association of states" it is "do we want a country called Europe". If so, be honest and campaign for it - as Ken Clarke and Williamglenn do.
Those in glass houses.
That was done honestly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs
The campaign said we would leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, regain control of our laws and borders and seek a trade deal with the EU.
In other words a Canada-style deal. Should not be impossible to achieve.
In other words the EEA.
An FTA ticks every box.
An FTA is consistent with every single claim Vote Leave made.
Still we are where we are - and our new PM has promised us a fantastic new deal or a painless No Deal. I am looking forward to it.
0 -
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA0 -
Indeed - the Tory cupboard is bare.rottenborough said:
In some respects even worse position than Labour, which has talented on back bench who jezza wont use.SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
0 -
Wrong on both counts I'd say.nico67 said:A Japanese paper sums it up perfectly .
“A model nation swallowed up by populism . “0 -
Was there anything in the article that would be a reason for her being sacked?rottenborough said:Was this why Mordaunt was dropped?
https://twitter.com/LauraRound/status/11532413711065333760 -
-
I meant the level of profile and PM-in-waiting type photo. I can imagine Boris having a fit, but maybe after a long day I am losing it and imagining things.AndyJS said:
Was there anything in the article that would be a reason for her being sacked?rottenborough said:Was this why Mordaunt was dropped?
https://twitter.com/LauraRound/status/11532413711065333760 -
Tonight I suspect many of our countrymen will feel much empathy for how most US citizens felt in November 2016 when the results became clear - and even with the many decent citizens of Germany on 30th January 1933.0
-
Night all. I need to recover.0
-
Despite what our Boris fans think, most left of centre folk seem supremely relaxed about today. It is time to piss or get off the pot. If Boris gets the EU to cave and deliver everything he wants, I, for one, will be delighted. He can then solve all the problems of the country which weren't due to Europe.
If Boris goes for No Deal, and it is painless, as promised, I, for one, will be delighted. He can then solve all the problems of the country which weren't due to Europe.
Win-win.
I am taking the patriotic view. I choose to believe in Boris!1 -
Somewhat OTT? This has been coming since 2016. Hardly a visceral shock to anyone paying the slightest attention.justin124 said:Tonight I suspect many of our countrymen will feel much empathy for how most US citizens felt in November 2016 when the results became clear - and even with the many decent citizens of Germany on 30th January 1933.
0 -
The good news is an election is 99% certain to happen within about 8 months at the most.justin124 said:Tonight I suspect many of our countrymen will feel much empathy for how most US citizens felt in November 2016 when the results became clear - and even with the many decent citizens of Germany on 30th January 1933.
0 -
A deal which BJ and JRM voted for.Philip_Thompson said:
A deal so dreadful it can't get through the Commons is nothing to be proud about.kle4 said:
May did get a deal with the EU, which Boris voted in favour of. What it failed to do was get a deal with the EU which would get through the Commons.MarqueeMark said:
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
We need to either get a new deal that can be taken through the Commons, or leave without a deal, or have an election to elect a new Commons that can ratify a choice.
May wasn't prepared or able to do any of those which is why she failed. Boris looks happy to do any of them.0 -
The odds have changed again. An election in 2019 is now favourite.
2019: 1.71 / 1.83
2020: 2.9 / 3.85
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.1320998360 -
Final appointment of the day (at 11.58pm):
@10DowningStreet
40m
40 minutes ago
Kwasi Kwarteng @KwasiKwarteng has been appointed Minister of State at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy @beisgovuk. He will also attend Cabinet.
0 -
They are going to need a bigger table and more chairsMikeL said:Final appointment of the day (at 11.58pm):
@10DowningStreet
40m
40 minutes ago
Kwasi Kwarteng @KwasiKwarteng has been appointed Minister of State at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy @beisgovuk. He will also attend Cabinet.0 -
There are over 6 times more Indian Asians than Pakistani Asians thoughsurbiton19 said:
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA0 -
0
-
As usual you are talking complete tosh and hoping no one would notice.HYUFD said:
There are over 6 times more Indian Asians than Pakistani Asians thoughsurbiton19 said:
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_Kingdom
Bangladeshi and Pakistanis outnumber Indians and a majority of Indians in the UK are not Narendra Modi fans. His support base is mostly Gujrati.0 -
The 4th of 5 authors of Brittania Unchained in the Cabinet. Obvious where we are headed. The choice is crystal.MikeL said:Final appointment of the day (at 11.58pm):
@10DowningStreet
40m
40 minutes ago
Kwasi Kwarteng @KwasiKwarteng has been appointed Minister of State at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy @beisgovuk. He will also attend Cabinet.
Chris Skidmore must be gutted. Did he offend Bozza in a previous life?0 -
They were wrong to do so IMO.surbiton19 said:
A deal which BJ and JRM voted for.Philip_Thompson said:
A deal so dreadful it can't get through the Commons is nothing to be proud about.kle4 said:
May did get a deal with the EU, which Boris voted in favour of. What it failed to do was get a deal with the EU which would get through the Commons.MarqueeMark said:
The worst it can do is fail to get a deal with the EU, an achievement matched by May's GOATs.....SouthamObserver said:We are also reminded this evening of the almost total absence of talent in the former Conservative and Unionist party
We need to either get a new deal that can be taken through the Commons, or leave without a deal, or have an election to elect a new Commons that can ratify a choice.
May wasn't prepared or able to do any of those which is why she failed. Boris looks happy to do any of them.0 -
Bangladeshis are no fans of Pakistanis and are closer to Indians, after all Bangladesh was created out of war with Pakistan supported by the Indian army.surbiton19 said:
As usual you are talking complete tosh and hoping no one would notice.HYUFD said:
There are over 6 times more Indian Asians than Pakistani Asians thoughsurbiton19 said:
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_Kingdom
Bangladeshi and Pakistanis outnumber Indians and a majority of Indians in the UK are not Narendra Modi fans. His support base is mostly Gujrati.
As your link shows British Indians are the largest Asian group in the UK, Modi won a landslide earlier this year in the Indian general election across the board0 -
I would have thought Kwasi was more deserving than many other shitholes BJ has appointed.MikeL said:Final appointment of the day (at 11.58pm):
@10DowningStreet
40m
40 minutes ago
Kwasi Kwarteng @KwasiKwarteng has been appointed Minister of State at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy @beisgovuk. He will also attend Cabinet.0 -
JJ's political principles are even lower than BJ's.AndyJS said:0 -
India is a very complex country socially and religiously. You should read about it before trying to make generalisations. Pakistan is interesting as well particularly the view in the 1940s about it being a more reliable pro western ally. An interesting film in the last few years portrayed Mountbatten as the last Governor before partician.HYUFD said:
There are over 6 times more Indian Asians than Pakistani Asians thoughsurbiton19 said:
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA0 -
He looked shocked, deflated and mournful when Boris was declared the winner. He probably knows Boris better than anyone! He is not the sort to turn on his brother imo but his demeanor spoke volumes.surbiton19 said:
JJ's political principles are even lower than BJ's.AndyJS said:0 -
Because the people who have been avoiding blame by making up lies about the EU will totally take responsibility themselves now and won't at all blame everything on domestic enemies.Philip_Thompson said:Leaving the EU helps us with these problems by forcing our politicians to actually address our problems rather than pass the buck blaming Brussels for our own issues. It is like a bird being pushed out of its nest because its time to fly.
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Bangladeshis are Muslims. Modi's sidekick Amit Shah has accused Bangladeshis of being vermin and accused Bangladeshis of forcing out Hindus.HYUFD said:
Bangladeshis are no fans of Pakistanis and are closer to Indians, after all Bangladesh was created out of war with Pakistan supported by the Indian army.surbiton19 said:
As usual you are talking complete tosh and hoping no one would notice.HYUFD said:
There are over 6 times more Indian Asians than Pakistani Asians thoughsurbiton19 said:
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_Kingdom
Bangladeshi and Pakistanis outnumber Indians and a majority of Indians in the UK are not Narendra Modi fans. His support base is mostly Gujrati.
As your link shows British Indians are the largest Asian group in the UK, Modi won a landslide earlier this year in the Indian general election across the board
You should see a Bangladesh-India cricket match to see how "close" they are to each other.
Bangladesh has grown >6% per year for the last 20 years. The current growth rate = 8%. In 2021 , Bangladesh GDP per capita will exceed India's.
https://www.adb.org/countries/bangladesh/economy
Modi won because of a divided opposition. He hardly won even 10 seats in Southern India.
How did you come up with the stat that there were 6 times more Indians than Pakistanis ?0 -
Partician = partitionThe_Taxman said:
India is a very complex country socially and religiously. You should read about it before trying to make generalisations. Pakistan is interesting as well particularly the view in the 1940s about it being a more reliable pro western ally. An interesting film in the last few years portrayed Mountbatten as the last Governor before partician.HYUFD said:
There are over 6 times more Indian Asians than Pakistani Asians thoughsurbiton19 said:
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as the working class vote due to her tough on crime message which will help the Tories win back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:
I agree entirely with your assessment of May. She was an awful woman and unfit to run a whelk stall.Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely worry me. Her instincts seem to be just as statist and authoritarian as May's with the added concern that she has advocated a return of the death penalty.
I judged May on her actions so would be willing to do the same for Patel but I have to confess to a lot of concern. Certainly I can't see her pushing the sort of soft libertarian agenda you and I would want.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA0 -
Thought about stabbing his brother in the back? But then realised profit is all?The_Taxman said:
He looked shocked, deflated and mournful when Boris was declared the winner. He probably knows Boris better than anyone! He is not the sort to turn on his brother imo but his demeanor spoke volumes.surbiton19 said:
JJ's political principles are even lower than BJ's.AndyJS said:0 -
We have swapped Penny Morduant (well respected) for Theresa Villiers (she is insane) and reinstated Gavin Williamson (shit pottery salesman and disgraced leaker) .
Dominic Raab (shallow sex pest) is our foreign secretary ( I suppose he fits in well with the one before last).
So depressed.
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Amber Rudd will regret not resigning from this shower of shit.
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Have found his wrong think. "If we just continue to talk about Brexit, Conservatism will not survive."dixiedean said:
The 4th of 5 authors of Brittania Unchained in the Cabinet. Obvious where we are headed. The choice is crystal.MikeL said:Final appointment of the day (at 11.58pm):
@10DowningStreet
40m
40 minutes ago
Kwasi Kwarteng @KwasiKwarteng has been appointed Minister of State at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy @beisgovuk. He will also attend Cabinet.
Chris Skidmore must be gutted. Did he offend Bozza in a previous life?0 -
India, population 1.3 million, Pakistan population 212 000.surbiton19 said:
Bangladeshis are Muslims. Modi's sidekick Amit Shah has accused Bangladeshis of being vermin and accused Bangladeshis of forcing out Hindus.HYUFD said:
Bangladeshis are no fans of Pakistanis and are closer to Indians, ae boardsurbiton19 said:
As usual you are talking complete tosh and hoping no one would notice.HYUFD said:
There are over 6 times more Indian Asians than Pakistani Asians thoughsurbiton19 said:
All Asians are not Indian and not all Indians are East African Indian.HYUFD said:
Priti Patel is of Indian heritage, obviously no love lost between Pakistan and India even todayDrutt said:
You know how I've been reasonably expressive about Priti Patel's wholesale unsuitedness to high office? 2nd gen Pakistani colleague of mine feels rather more strongly.HYUFD said:
Patel will go down well with the Asian vote as well as back Brexit Party voters and win Labour Leave marginal seats.Richard_Tyndall said:Philip_Thompson said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
But the appointment of Patel does genuinely nt.
She is also friends with Narendra Modi which will help in talks with India on a FTA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_Kingdom
Bangladeshi and Pakistanis outnumber Indians and a majority of Indians in the UK are not Narendra Modi fans. His support base is mostly Gujrati.
You should see a Bangladesh-India cricket match to see how "close" they are to each other.
Bangladesh has grown >6% per year for the last 20 years. The current growth rate = 8%. In 2021 , Bangladesh GDP per capita will exceed India's.
https://www.adb.org/countries/bangladesh/economy
Modi won because of a divided opposition. He hardly won even 10 seats in Southern India.
How did you come up with the stat that there were 6 times more Indians than Pakistanis ?
If Bangladeshis see their GDP per capita grow that will mean so will their wealth in the UK making them more likely to be Tories.
Given I campaigned with members of Conservative Friends of Pakistan in the local elections there are even Pakistani Tories, indeed Javid is of Pakistani heritage so with the new Chancellor and Home Secretary the first Pakistani Britain and Indian Britain to hold the roles the Tories have both the biggest British Asian groups covered in the new Cabinet-1 -
Surely the odds are higher on cancelling HS2 than a 2019 election?0
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I don't think HS2 will be cancelled altogether. Bits of it might be. Apparently Johnson wants to keep the northern section.ExiledInScotland said:Surely the odds are higher on cancelling HS2 than a 2019 election?
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This is the earliest report I can find about Priti Patel, when she was selected in 2006 as part of Cameron's famous A-list of candidates. (It also mentions Joanne Cash in Westminster North).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1534854/Tories-pick-British-Asian-woman-in-safe-seat.html0 -
"Boris Johnson faces Tory fury after brutal cabinet purge
The new PM's ruthless purge of Theresa May loyalists from the cabinet has provoked anger among many Conservative MPs.
By Jon Craig, chief political correspondent"
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-to-make-commons-debut-as-pm-after-cabinet-massacre-117700040
