politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Darroch shows he’s a true diplomat and resigns
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My only question would be did Corbyn reply....noneoftheabove said:
How are these people so stupid!CarlottaVance said:0 -
Does it have to be a Brit?Richard_Nabavi said:
Sir Ivan Rogers would be even better.CarlottaVance said:Almost worth it for the detonations......
https://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/1148994327940648960
Is Obama free?0 -
Even Boris Johnson Believes in ‘America First’
Britain’s next prime minister chose flattering Donald Trump over supporting his country’s ambassador to Washington.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/07/boris-johnson-sank-kim-darroch-donald-trump/593680/0 -
Murdoch lackey maybe being less than honest shocker.Scott_P said:0 -
Dishonest man about to become PM....OnlyLivingBoy said:
Murdoch lackey maybe being less than honest shocker.Scott_P said:0 -
Elsewhere I have seen it speculated that GO is being lined up for it! lol He has two international jobs lined up for him if you believe the media, head of the IMF and now Ambassador to the US! I doubt Cameron would want it anyway as it probably isn't well remunerated, he would have restrictions on earning money and it is based in Washington! To add to that Cameron said some pretty unflattering things about Trump in 2015/2016! So he is a non-runner as well as Trump would take Umbridge!viewcode said:0 -
Could we go for Michelle?logical_song said:
Does it have to be a Brit?Richard_Nabavi said:
Sir Ivan Rogers would be even better.CarlottaVance said:Almost worth it for the detonations......
https://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/1148994327940648960
Is Obama free?0 -
George Galloway would have a diplomatic turn of phrase as our new ambassador, I reckon.0
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But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.0 -
Do you have stats on this?CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.0 -
Edit. Awaiting a sensible format!0
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Isn't that Boris's constituency?The_Taxman said:
Elsewhere I have seen it speculated that GO is being lined up for it! lol He has two international jobs lined up for him if you believe the media, head of the IMF and now Ambassador to the US! I doubt Cameron would want it anyway as it probably isn't well remunerated, he would have restrictions on earning money and it is based in Washington! To add to that Cameron said some pretty unflattering things about Trump in 2015/2016! So he is a non-runner as well as Trump would take Umbridge!viewcode said:2 -
https://twitter.com/SMcDonaldFCO/status/1148987927193632768
Boris is really going to regret his first action as PM-in-waiting.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jun/03/the-truth-about-chlorinated-chicken-review-an-instant-appetite-ruinerReggieCide said:
Do you have stats on this?CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
"US rates of campylobacter infection are 10 times higher than in the UK. The US records hundreds of salmonella deaths a year; the UK has in recent years recorded none."0 -
It’s not food hygiene - it’s done to pass the food hygiene tests, given the lack of suitable farming and welfare standards.Philip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.kjh said:
I think that misses the point. It is not the chlorination that is the issue but the reason for the chlorination and as I have never heard of a case of cruelty or mistreatment of water I think we are okPhilip_Thompson said:
Imagine if we had to wash down chlorinated chicken with chlorinated tap water . .kinabalu said:
Indeed.anothernick said:It also plays very well for remain. Brexit Britain = licking Trump's hindquarters.
"If you want a vision of the future, Winston, imagine kissing the rancid buttocks of a corpulent septuagenarian and eating chlorinated chicken ... FOREVER."
The logic against is like saying drivers seatbelts should be banned because that would make drivers drive safer.
Go compare the rates of food poisoning in the US compared to Europe.1 -
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:0 -
Nice picture. Encapsulates the FO perfectly (from my recollection of it anyway)rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/SMcDonaldFCO/status/1148987927193632768
Boris is really going to regret his first action as PM-in-waiting.0 -
One can only live in hope.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/SMcDonaldFCO/status/1148987927193632768
Boris is really going to regret his first action as PM-in-waiting.0 -
Can someone explain how the third paragraph follows from the second? Given the DUP viewpoint surely ensuring devolution at Stormont is restored 21 October is essential otherwise their views will have been overridden.eek said:So oldish news but a change from Boris
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-48934045
Votes by MPs to legalise same-sex marriage and liberalise abortion law in Northern Ireland breach the devolution settlement, the Democratic Unionist Party has said.
....
While the votes do not automatically change the law, they compel government to make the changes if devolution at Stormont is not restored by 21 October.
The DUP said the votes make it more difficult to restore its power-sharing government with Sinn Féin that collapsed in January 2017 amid a bitter row.
DUP are better off having the inevitable changes imposed on NI by Westminster, allowing them to huff and puff whilst relieving them of the monkey on their back.0 -
Plus do we think leave is still at 17.4m?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:0 -
Scotland also voted Remain if you want to play that game, so did London. Scotland voted in much heavier numbers to Remain as well with over 44% of NI voting to Leave.HYUFD said:
And Northern Ireland voted Remain unlike GB and is the only part of the UK bordering a part of the EU and can decide by referendum if it wants the backstop to avoid a hard border with the Republic and protect the Good Friday Agreement or wants to join the UK immediately out of the Customs UnionPhilip_Thompson said:
GB is not the country. The question asked in the referendum was should the United Kingdom leave the EU not should GB.HYUFD said:
What we need is someone who believes in the FTA for GB and restoration of sovereignty and border control Vote Leave won on not someone trying to keep as close ties to the EU as possible if not outright trying to stop Brexit altogetherIanB2 said:
Because a blind man with an optimistic view of crossing the road is just what we need right now?HYUFD said:
Yes as seen downthread, how dare we have a PM who actually campaigned for Leave and has an optimistic vision of Brexit!GIN1138 said:
Oh dear. Matthew throwing his toys out of the pram...rottenborough said:
Guess we're going to see a lot of this in the next fortnight.
Either we're one country or we're not, there is no good reason why NI can remain in the Single Market and Customs Union but Scotland for instance can't. Especially when the elected representatives of Northern Ireland wish to leave it while the elected representatives of Scotland want to remain.
A border poll is a better solution if there's to be a referendum. Either NI remains as part of the UK in which case it is out of the EU, or it remains as part of the EU in which case it is out of the UK. Either way then there is integrity and if the Republic gets NI to stay part of the EU then the Republic should pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that NI requires.0 -
Sorry auto correct on my smartphone it should say umbrage!ReggieCide said:
Isn't that Boris's constituency?The_Taxman said:
Elsewhere I have seen it speculated that GO is being lined up for it! lol He has two international jobs lined up for him if you believe the media, head of the IMF and now Ambassador to the US! I doubt Cameron would want it anyway as it probably isn't well remunerated, he would have restrictions on earning money and it is based in Washington! To add to that Cameron said some pretty unflattering things about Trump in 2015/2016! So he is a non-runner as well as Trump would take Umbridge!viewcode said:0 -
I have John Majors autobiog and when I have time and my ship comes in I will buy the Charles Moore Thatcher two-volume job and Statecraft. There are many books to read, and Brown's book, or McCain's biog jump out at me. But I have no desire at all to read Tony Blair's Journey nor anything Cameron writes. I might change my mind, I might not, but right now there is a big echoing void where my bibliophilia normally resides...rottenborough said:
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https://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/pdfs/scallan-estimated-illnesses-foodborne-pathogens.pdfReggieCide said:
Do you have stats on this?CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.0 -
Can we all have one of those border polls please? I'm not sure why I have to pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that Barnsley and Great Yarmouth require.Philip_Thompson said:A border poll is a better solution if there's to be a referendum. Either NI remains as part of the UK in which case it is out of the EU, or it remains as part of the EU in which case it is out of the UK. Either way then there is integrity and if the Republic gets NI to stay part of the EU then the Republic should pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that NI requires.
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As to the tweet, I get it. After all every Labour voter votes to make the country poorer (IMNSHO).The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
Plus I have sympathy with the view that leaving was a democratic decision which has not yet been complied with. In such circumstances it's not surprising that some Leavers think fuck it.0 -
Nope - some people have switched to remain (for reasons such as we are clearly incompetent and require adult supervision from the EU) and I suspect a lot have died.TOPPING said:
Plus do we think leave is still at 17.4m?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
That doesn't however mean that a lot of Brexit votes weren't valid. The have-nots are annoyed and nothing has been done to resolve it. Unfortunately Brexit is likely to make their lives worse rather than better, they just don't know it...0 -
So even Tom Newton Dunn knows his first story was bullcrap...CarlottaVance said:0 -
Well, there's a shocker: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-489292440
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Indeed, that is a small pool of voters to fish and not all will vote Tory either. I as a former Tory voter in 2017 will not back Boris and I know others who have voiced the same opinion. It seems like a suicidal strategy electorally. I think Brexiteer Tories have lost the plot on this...TOPPING said:
Plus do we think leave is still at 17.4m?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:0 -
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.0 -
It might be more.TOPPING said:
Plus do we think leave is still at 17.4m?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
1) the elderly die, but the elderly category continues to expand: the number leaving thru death is less than the number entering by age. 2) the very oldest are more Europhilic than their slightly younger counterparts, and they are dying off fastest.
Don't rely on demographics to solve Brexit: it doesn't work like that.0 -
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.0 -
Plus what portion of Leavers would be happy to become poorer to Remain, and what portion of Remainers would be happy to become poorer to Leave. You need those figures as well...algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths. 0 -
Almost half the voters of NI vote for parties backing a border poll.El_Capitano said:
Can we all have one of those border polls please? I'm not sure why I have to pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that Barnsley and Great Yarmouth require.Philip_Thompson said:A border poll is a better solution if there's to be a referendum. Either NI remains as part of the UK in which case it is out of the EU, or it remains as part of the EU in which case it is out of the UK. Either way then there is integrity and if the Republic gets NI to stay part of the EU then the Republic should pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that NI requires.
What proportion of Barnsley and Great Yarmouth voters do so?0 -
1
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Nah, the referendum has frozen the picture for most people; another reason why the Tories are in trouble. There won’t be many people who actually voted Remain in 2016 who have switched to leave three years later merely by dint of becoming older.viewcode said:
It might be more.TOPPING said:
Plus do we think leave is still at 17.4m?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
1) the elderly die, but the elderly category continues to expand: the number leaving thru death is less than the number entering by age. 2) the very oldest are more Europhilic than their slightly younger counterparts, and they are dying off fastest.
Don't rely on demographics to solve Brexit: it doesn't work like that.
The key shift is the millions being added as younger people - mostly of an age to have noticed the referendum - achieve 18 and get added to the register. You don’t need to look far to find out their views on the matter.0 -
Both areas had 50%+ for Brexit Party/UKIP in the European Elections, and you could say they're the ultimate border poll parties, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Philip_Thompson said:
Almost half the voters of NI vote for parties backing a border poll.El_Capitano said:
Can we all have one of those border polls please? I'm not sure why I have to pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that Barnsley and Great Yarmouth require.Philip_Thompson said:A border poll is a better solution if there's to be a referendum. Either NI remains as part of the UK in which case it is out of the EU, or it remains as part of the EU in which case it is out of the UK. Either way then there is integrity and if the Republic gets NI to stay part of the EU then the Republic should pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that NI requires.
What proportion of Barnsley and Great Yarmouth voters do so?0 -
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.0 -
That's not to say all the youngsters support remain. The leader of the young conservatives in our town has recently changed. She is now the 3rd thickest child in my children's junior school class (as a governor for the entire time (8 years) they were in that school I know exactly who was where)..IanB2 said:
Nah, the referendum has frozen the picture for most people; another reason why the Tories are in trouble. There won’t be many people who actually voted Remain in 2016 who have switched to leave three years later merely by dint of becoming older.viewcode said:
It might be more.TOPPING said:
Plus do we think leave is still at 17.4m?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
1) the elderly die, but the elderly category continues to expand: the number leaving thru death is less than the number entering by age. 2) the very oldest are more Europhilic than their slightly younger counterparts, and they are dying off fastest.
Don't rely on demographics to solve Brexit: it doesn't work like that.
The key shift is the millions being added as younger people - mostly of an age to have noticed the referendum - achieve 18 and get added to the register. You don’t need to look far to find out their views on the matter.0 -
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.The_Taxman said:
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.0 -
I was going to respond but this (probably total unbiased) page https://briefingsforbrexit.com/fact-checking-the-bbc-fact-checkers/ is google's first result and I wasn't happy arguing the point.IanB2 said:Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.
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One of the top 10 most depressing days of Brexit.
Marquee Mark parroting Trump. Still, at least Boris isn't a direct Putin lackey yet, just indirectly down the cascade of association at present. Now, there is a bona fide mid level fascist with an ever increasing coterie of outriders in the major democracies
Where does this end up? Do we wobble and normalise, do we devise an offer for the angry above the heads of these clowns , or does this end up with our current democracy falling.
And, if it is lost, do we get to be a sleepy, diminished backwater of authoritarianism - a cowed Salazari or South American model (I think that more likely) or something altogether more sinister and Godwinny.
I don't much fancy going to civil war against Marquee, GIN et al, but on days like today, with them spouting as they are,, I begin to wonder ....1 -
That's categorically not true. Look at WHO or other reports that are consistent between countries and the US rate is lower.IanB2 said:Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.
The six times higher myth came about because someone mistakenly compared the CDC's estimated figure (which includes unreported cases etc) with the UK's laboratory confirmed figure. Which is comparing apples and oranges, estimated figures are always higher as people know not everyone gets treated that is why estimates are made.0 -
Making a good omelette is one of the classic tests for new chefs. Superficially easy, actually very hard to get right. Generally though failure to make a good omelette doesn’t actively harm peoples’ lives. One can only hope that handwaving leavers suffer.Philip_Thompson said:
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.The_Taxman said:
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.0 -
I hope you do not lose your job, house and the things you hold dear. Life never works out how you think it might, be careful what you wish for as it can come and bite you on the arse! Disruption is great if it does not impact your life. I find comments like yours callous and lacking intelligence.Philip_Thompson said:
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.The_Taxman said:
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.2 -
One wonders if it had happened last week...rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/SMcDonaldFCO/status/1148987927193632768
Boris is really going to regret his first action as PM-in-waiting.0 -
That page makes the point very clearly. Though Professor David Paton is probably the wrong type of expert.eek said:
I was going to respond but this (probably total unbiased) page https://briefingsforbrexit.com/fact-checking-the-bbc-fact-checkers/ is google's first result and I wasn't happy arguing the point.IanB2 said:Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.0 -
Not a view many PBers will agree with I suspect...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/10/boris-johnson-showed-true-leadership-refusing-back-sir-kim-darroch/0 -
If I do lose my job, house and things I hold dear I hope that down the road I'll get a better job etc and so long as I have my family material things are not the end of the world.The_Taxman said:
I hope you do not lose your job, house and the things you hold dear. Life never works out how you think it might, be careful what you wish for as it can come and bite you on the arse! Disruption is great if it does not impact your life. I find comments like yours callous and lacking intelligence.Philip_Thompson said:
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.The_Taxman said:
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Even people who suffer from disruption can be better off in the end, yes it may sound callous but creative destruction works.
An alternative name for "stability" is "stagnation".0 -
The most interesting thing about that is that it has leaked. I don't recall "outrider guidance" reaching the public domain before. There's a leaker inside the circle of trust.CarlottaVance said:1 -
Theresa can do what she likes. Boris can still make any appointment he wants when he becomes PM...CarlottaVance said:Go for it Theresa!
https://twitter.com/anguswalkertalk/status/1149001530244325382?s=200 -
The 2015 WHO study found higher rates in the US/Canada/Cuba region than in Europe.Philip_Thompson said:
That's categorically not true. Look at WHO or other reports that are consistent between countries and the US rate is lower.IanB2 said:Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.
The six times higher myth came about because someone mistakenly compared the CDC's estimated figure (which includes unreported cases etc) with the UK's laboratory confirmed figure. Which is comparing apples and oranges, estimated figures are always higher as people know not everyone gets treated that is why estimates are made.0 -
I actually has a look at the raw figures and concluded the confounding factors made any direct comparison pretty well impossible for a layperson.eek said:
I was going to respond but this (probably total unbiased) page https://briefingsforbrexit.com/fact-checking-the-bbc-fact-checkers/ is google's first result and I wasn't happy arguing the point.IanB2 said:
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.0 -
Maybe when Boris steps across the threshold of No.10 in a few weeks time they should rename the DT as Pravda4Boris!GIN1138 said:Not a view many PBers will agree with I suspect...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/10/boris-johnson-showed-true-leadership-refusing-back-sir-kim-darroch/0 -
Precisely. This is all anyone withe common sense needs to say about the matter.HYUFD said:Right decision by Darroch and Boris can ensure the right successor is appointed
Step away from the keyboard folks, come back when you feel better.1 -
The fact that one has “Outrider Guidance” at all I find vaguely depressing. People being told how to think is not an endearing trait in anybody. Whether politics, religion or politics as religion.AlastairMeeks said:
The most interesting thing about that is that it has leaked. I don't recall "outrider guidance" reaching the public domain before. There's a leaker inside the circle of trust.CarlottaVance said:0 -
So that’s what, 30% of the population?HYUFD said:0 -
Scotland does not border another EU nation nor does London.Philip_Thompson said:
Scotland also voted Remain if you want to play that game, so did London. Scotland voted in much heavier numbers to Remain as well with over 44% of NI voting to Leave.HYUFD said:
And Northern Ireland voted Remain unlike GB and is the only part of the UK bordering a part of the EU and can decide by referendum if it wants the backstop to avoid a hard border with the Republic and protect the Good Friday Agreement or wants to join the UK immediately out of the Customs UnionPhilip_Thompson said:
GB is not the country. The question asked in the referendum was should the United Kingdom leave the EU not should GB.HYUFD said:
What we need is someone who believes in the FTA for GB and restoration of sovereignty and border control Vote Leave won on not someone trying to keep as close ties to the EU as possible if not outright trying to stop Brexit altogetherIanB2 said:
Because a blind man with an optimistic view of crossing the road is just what we need right now?HYUFD said:
Yes as seen downthread, how dare we have a PM who actually campaigned for Leave and has an optimistic vision of Brexit!GIN1138 said:
Oh dear. Matthew throwing his toys out of the pram...rottenborough said:
Guess we're going to see a lot of this in the next fortnight.
Either we're one country or we're not, there is no good reason why NI can remain in the Single Market and Customs Union but Scotland for instance can't. Especially when the elected representatives of Northern Ireland wish to leave it while the elected representatives of Scotland want to remain.
A border poll is a better solution if there's to be a referendum. Either NI remains as part of the UK in which case it is out of the EU, or it remains as part of the EU in which case it is out of the UK. Either way then there is integrity and if the Republic gets NI to stay part of the EU then the Republic should pick up the tab of the billions per year of public funding that NI requires.
Neither do they have the Good Friday Agreement to protect either.
Though a border poll in Northern Ireland as a last resort may be considered, most NI voters want to stay in the Union but avoid a hard border with the backstop until a technical solution is found to the Irish border0 -
GIN1138 said:
Do you think you might just be going a tiny bit over the top?Pro_Rata said:
I don't much fancy going to civil war against Marquee, GIN et al, but on days like today, with them spouting as they are,, I begin to wonder ....
In a culture war, pick your side. The Faragists are keen to fight to other peoples’ deaths.0 -
The other interesting thing is that it is being completely ignored. The attacks on Panorama and the journalist concerned are getting increasingly frenzied.AlastairMeeks said:
The most interesting thing about that is that it has leaked. I don't recall "outrider guidance" reaching the public domain before. There's a leaker inside the circle of trust.CarlottaVance said:
However, none of it will make a blind bit of difference. Just as the right will never accept any responsibility for anything to do with the shambles that is Brexit and will deny all negatives associated with it, so the Labour membership will ignore all evidence of the anti-Semitism Corbyn has unleashed. The deeply religious cannot be reasoned with.
0 -
Surely “anyone with common sense” would want to see the post filled promptly and the leaker go unrewarded (before they are prosecuted and jailed?)Luckyguy1983 said:
Precisely. This is all anyone withe common sense needs to say about the matter.HYUFD said:Right decision by Darroch and Boris can ensure the right successor is appointed
Step away from the keyboard folks, come back when you feel better.0 -
9 million people could win an overall majority if the Remain vote is split between Labour, LD and Green and on a 65% turnout of those eligible to vote and over 18.The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
Plus that is on a worst case scenario, a Canada style FTA with the EU largely protects the economy while still delivering the sovereignty and border control Leave voters want0 -
Boris Johnson is selling the country out. I don`t know why so many Conservatives support him.CarlottaVance said:Even Boris Johnson Believes in ‘America First’
Britain’s next prime minister chose flattering Donald Trump over supporting his country’s ambassador to Washington.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/07/boris-johnson-sank-kim-darroch-donald-trump/593680/0 -
Source?IanB2 said:
The 2015 WHO study found higher rates in the US/Canada/Cuba region than in Europe.Philip_Thompson said:
That's categorically not true. Look at WHO or other reports that are consistent between countries and the US rate is lower.IanB2 said:Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.
The six times higher myth came about because someone mistakenly compared the CDC's estimated figure (which includes unreported cases etc) with the UK's laboratory confirmed figure. Which is comparing apples and oranges, estimated figures are always higher as people know not everyone gets treated that is why estimates are made.0 -
What about Kate Hoey? She is free now and a strong BrexiteerThe_Taxman said:
Elsewhere I have seen it speculated that GO is being lined up for it! lol He has two international jobs lined up for him if you believe the media, head of the IMF and now Ambassador to the US! I doubt Cameron would want it anyway as it probably isn't well remunerated, he would have restrictions on earning money and it is based in Washington! To add to that Cameron said some pretty unflattering things about Trump in 2015/2016! So he is a non-runner as well as Trump would take Umbridge!viewcode said:0 -
Labour aren't in a very good position to take legal action over the NDAs breached in tonight's Panorama, are they? Still, it would be entertaining if they tried...0
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No guarantee in life of things getting better, You could become ill and have to rely on the NHS, having lost your job. You might have lost any savings you have accrued or shares you may have owned may have become worthless. You might not be able to work and have to attend a hospital where they cannot administer some state of the art medical treatment because Brexit means NHS funding is constrained rather than expanding at the rates it has been the norm in recent decades.Philip_Thompson said:
If I do lose my job, house and things I hold dear I hope that down the road I'll get a better job etc and so long as I have my family material things are not the end of the world.The_Taxman said:
I hope you do not lose your job, house and the things you hold dear. Life never works out how you think it might, be careful what you wish for as it can come and bite you on the arse! Disruption is great if it does not impact your life. I find comments like yours callous and lacking intelligence.Philip_Thompson said:
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.The_Taxman said:
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
"election winner...HYUFD said:
.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Even people who suffer from disruption can be better off in the end, yes it may sound callous but creative destruction works.
An alternative name for "stability" is "stagnation".
Life can be grossly unfair and literally anything can happen!
Obviously, I hope you do not suffer any setbacks but some people never recover the path in life they might have thought they would had an event not occurred...
0 -
@Philip_Thompson how well did 'creative destruction' work for communities in the North East following Margret Thatcher's free-for-all capitalism?
Spoiler: the area is only just recovering and is still the poorest region of England.
There's no harm in making change but you can't just drop people into poverty without providing ways to mitigate any damage.0 -
I suspect the BriefforBrexit site I linked to earlier - I don't agree with it but can't be arsed to find the evidence to show it's wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Source?IanB2 said:
The 2015 WHO study found higher rates in the US/Canada/Cuba region than in Europe.Philip_Thompson said:
That's categorically not true. Look at WHO or other reports that are consistent between countries and the US rate is lower.IanB2 said:Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.
The six times higher myth came about because someone mistakenly compared the CDC's estimated figure (which includes unreported cases etc) with the UK's laboratory confirmed figure. Which is comparing apples and oranges, estimated figures are always higher as people know not everyone gets treated that is why estimates are made.
0 -
I was bored for 5 minutes so this is for HYUFD - good luck in Boris's General Election campaign
Given this image which party do you vote for the Tories or Brexit...0 -
I'm surprised you're not exercised by his lack of a parliamentary majority now. What's more I'd imagine more MPs loathe him than like him-certainly than respect him-and he way the parliamentary numbers work means there will be no means of squeezing a majority. In fact three or four Tory defections and the Queen could be calling someone else. It's good to see PB almost united in its revulsion of Trumps behaviour towards our ambassador.HYUFD said:
Yes and if Boris does win a majority the tantrums and throwing toys out of the pram here on election night will be worth staying up all night for!GIN1138 said:This time in two weeks Boris will be kissing hands with HMQ. Then he'll go to Downing St and start choosing his Cabinet.
And the Johsnon Ministry will have begun.
Just let that sink in PB...
Don't have nightmares.
0 -
How do you know the Brexit party will not split the Brexiteer vote between Tory, UKIP and BP? Some Labour Leavers might still vote Labour given how tribal they are as well even if the Labour party position themselves as Remain. No certainty in anything happening and Leavers might just not bother voting of course as they have taken the line that 2016 was an enduring vote and any subsequent vote is not worth participating in!HYUFD said:
9 million people could win an overall majority if the Remain vote is split between Labour, LD and Green and on a 65% turnout of those eligible to vote and over 18.The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
Plus that is on a worst case scenario, a Canada style FTA with the EU largely protects the economy while still delivering the sovereignty and border control Leave voters want0 -
Can we send them someone with nice teeth please. Rory isn't exactly going to quash any stereotypes.TOPPING said:
They'd love Rory over there. It's the accent you see.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Given only Boris has a chance of delivering a majority for Brexit, not Farage, it is actually the other way around.eek said:I was bored for 5 minutes so this is for HYUFD - good luck in Boris's General Election campaign
Given this image which party do you vote for the Tories or Brexit...
It was Boris and Vote Leave and Cummings who got the Leave vote over 50% ,not Farage and Leave.EU and as long as the polls show a Boris led Tory Party ahead of the Brexit Party most Leavers will vote for the former0 -
Better off how, pray tell?Philip_Thompson said:
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Be specific. Words like "sovereignty" and "uplands" won't cut it.
0 -
If the Lib Dems win 40% of the vote we can say sayonara to Boris, Corbyn and Farage in one night.HYUFD said:
Given only Boris has a chance of delivering a majority for Brexit, not Farage, it is actually the other way around.
It was Boris who won the Leave vote,not Farage and as long as the polls show a Boris led Tory Party ahead of the Brexit Party most Leavers will vote for the former
1 -
Besides, if the chlorine washing was some extra thing being done to improve hygiene, rather than to mask failings earlier in the food production process, you’d expect rates in the US to be significantly better than in the UK. Whereas the fact is that they do it because chemical washing at the end is cheaper than improving their processes throughout.eek said:
I suspect the BriefforBrexit site I linked to earlier - I don't agree with it but can't be arsed to find the evidence to show it's wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Source?IanB2 said:
The 2015 WHO study found higher rates in the US/Canada/Cuba region than in Europe.Philip_Thompson said:
That's categorically not true. Look at WHO or other reports that are consistent between countries and the US rate is lower.IanB2 said:Philip_Thompson said:
Actually comparing like-for-like its lower.CatMan said:
But it doesn't work, hence why there is far more food poisoning in the USPhilip_Thompson said:
The reason for the chlorination is for food hygiene. So long as it works for that purpose it shouldn't be banned.
Not really. Recorded rates of Salmonella poisoning per head in the US appear to be about six times higher (per head) than in the UK. Also worth noting that going to hospital or the doctor has financial consequences in the US and therefore milder cases probably go unreported there.
The six times higher myth came about because someone mistakenly compared the CDC's estimated figure (which includes unreported cases etc) with the UK's laboratory confirmed figure. Which is comparing apples and oranges, estimated figures are always higher as people know not everyone gets treated that is why estimates are made.0 -
Yep, it's time to saddle up.Pro_Rata said:One of the top 10 most depressing days of Brexit.
Marquee Mark parroting Trump. Still, at least Boris isn't a direct Putin lackey yet, just indirectly down the cascade of association at present. Now, there is a bona fide mid level fascist with an ever increasing coterie of outriders in the major democracies
Where does this end up? Do we wobble and normalise, do we devise an offer for the angry above the heads of these clowns , or does this end up with our current democracy falling.
And, if it is lost, do we get to be a sleepy, diminished backwater of authoritarianism - a cowed Salazari or South American model (I think that more likely) or something altogether more sinister and Godwinny.
I don't much fancy going to civil war against Marquee, GIN et al, but on days like today, with them spouting as they are,, I begin to wonder ....0 -
New Fred
0 -
If Parliament is prorogued the people will hit the streets. We don’t hold with coups in this country.GIN1138 said:
Do you think you might just be going a tiny bit over the top?Pro_Rata said:
I don't much fancy going to civil war against Marquee, GIN et al, but on days like today, with them spouting as they are,, I begin to wonder ....1 -
The people voted for Brexit, it is Parliament blocking itStreeter said:
If Parliament is prorogued the people will hit the streets. We don’t hold with coups in this country.GIN1138 said:
Do you think you might just be going a tiny bit over the top?Pro_Rata said:
I don't much fancy going to civil war against Marquee, GIN et al, but on days like today, with them spouting as they are,, I begin to wonder ....0 -
1) the problem is not that you are happy for you to lose your job, house and the things you hold dear. The problem is that you are happy for me to lose my job, house and the things I hold dear.Philip_Thompson said:
If I do lose my job, house and things I hold dear I hope that down the road I'll get a better job etc and so long as I have my family material things are not the end of the world.The_Taxman said:
I hope you do not lose your job, house and the things you hold dear. Life never works out how you think it might, be careful what you wish for as it can come and bite you on the arse! Disruption is great if it does not impact your life. I find comments like yours callous and lacking intelligence.Philip_Thompson said:
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.The_Taxman said:
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Even people who suffer from disruption can be better off in the end, yes it may sound callous but creative destruction works.
An alternative name for "stability" is "stagnation".
2) The benefits of "creative destruction" are to the society, not the individual being destroyed (and then only if the net effect is positive)0 -
Brexit is not creative destruction.viewcode said:
1) the problem is not that you are happy for you to lose your job, house and the things you hold dear. The problem is that you are happy for me to lose my job, house and the things I hold dear.Philip_Thompson said:
If I do lose my job, house and things I hold dear I hope that down the road I'll get a better job etc and so long as I have my family material things are not the end of the world.The_Taxman said:
I hope you do not lose your job, house and the things you hold dear. Life never works out how you think it might, be careful what you wish for as it can come and bite you on the arse! Disruption is great if it does not impact your life. I find comments like yours callous and lacking intelligence.Philip_Thompson said:
It is in doubt. Even if there is some disruption many who back Leave do so as they believe that following disruption the UK will be better off.The_Taxman said:
That flies in the face of the data, even Brexiteers admit that the UK will be worse off due to Brexit. It is why some preparations for No Deal have taken place due to the disruption! You cannot really bend a question that's premise is not supported by economic theory. Staying in the EU preserves the UKs trading relationship with the EU, it also means we would see the benefits of significant trade deals the EU has recently signed with countries and trading blocks outside the EU. Leaving the EU will have a detrimental impact on the UK economy, that is not in doubt....algarkirk said:
What proportion of Remain voters think that Britain being worse off economically would be a price worth paying for remaining?The_Taxman said:
That is interesting when you think about it. So, 9 million people or so in the UK think they should be worse off in the future and Brexit executed against about 60 Million others! Boris does not look such an "election winner" to use your phrase.....HYUFD said:
If you ask a particular group a slanted question you generate a headline but no truths.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Even people who suffer from disruption can be better off in the end, yes it may sound callous but creative destruction works.
An alternative name for "stability" is "stagnation".
2) The benefits of "creative destruction" are to the society, not the individual being destroyed (and then only if the net effect is positive)
It’s just destruction.0
This discussion has been closed.