I have to feel sorry for Darroch: he has been let down by his own side.
I've repeatedly said that I can't vote for a Conservative Party led by Boris, and have given a number of reasons. His handling of this situation is just another brick in a mighty wall of evidence.
I won't be alone.
(Cue so-called 'Conservatives' saying: "We don't need your vote!")
It wont come from this one
Yes, you are a gentleman and generally a sensible fellow.
I have to feel sorry for Darroch: he has been let down by his own side.
I've repeatedly said that I can't vote for a Conservative Party led by Boris, and have given a number of reasons. His handling of this situation is just another brick in a mighty wall of evidence.
I won't be alone.
(Cue so-called 'Conservatives' saying: "We don't need your vote!")
It wont come from this one
Yes, you are a gentleman and generally a sensible fellow.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
But you are trying to slam the door behind him
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
Don’t be part of that mistake
From 1965 to 1975 Heathites lost 3 out of 4 general elections, it took Thatcher to win the next 3 on the trot.
Given the majority of the country's voters and the vast majority of Tories voted Leave it is failing to respect that decision and implement it Deal or No Deal that will really cost the Tories
So they were in power for 40% of that time?
And from 1951-1964. Shall we agree that 17/24 years is not that bad a result?
Thatcher was a Radical, not an Ultra. The support of the likes of Whitelaw and Hailsham was a key part of her coalition.
Salisbury was an ultra and won more elections than Heath, even Stanley won most seats in 1847 and 1852.
The 2 worst defeats for the Tories since the 1832 Great Reform Act came in 1906 under Balfour and 1997 under Major came under non ultra leaders
The problem with Whitehall is 95% are Remainers who see Brexit as a damage limitation exercise at best, as did May.
A rather more sensible attitude than those who think there are no limits to the damage which must be accepted in order to implement their own particular view of it.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
Give it a rest
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainers
BBC Two having a hustings debate between Lib Dem candidates on Friday July 19 - bit late is it not
A tad. Although as of today 2/3rds of members haven't voted
My wife won’t vote, although I would have to exercise the right for her unfortunately, because her ballot has gone to a defunct email address who’s recovery email addresses are also defunct.
Given that Darroch was due to leave in a few months anyway, it seems entirely reasonable to see this leak as not just an attack on him, but a deliberate shot across of the bows of the entire civil service by the Brexiteers: “do not f*ck with us, or we will throw you under the bus faster than you can blink” is the message & I imagine it’s being heard loud and clear.
Whether that will mean that the Brexiteers actually get what they want is another question entirely of course.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
Give it a rest
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainers
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
Give it a rest
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainers
Rare I agree with Boris Johnson but his remarks from what looked like a boozer somewhere in London were quite valid.
I suspect every ambassador from every country routinely sends back to their home Government the kind of communications Kim Darroch sent. It is an integral part of their job and a form of covert intelligence gathering that is a part of what diplomacy is and what diplomats do.
Getting a sense of how each Government operates outside the protocols of inter-Governmental business is of huge value to any Government in its international relations. I suspect it is something at which the FCO has been very good in times past.
I also agree with Boris whomsoever leaked the communications needs to be found and properly prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.
There's an interesting question whether Isabel Oakeshott herself might have committed the procuring offence.
I'd be hesitant to convict a journalist. It's the leaker that should be made to regret ever waking up that fateful morning that they leaked it.
That rather depends what the journalist had done.
There's never been a journalist arrest for the current Official Secrets Act, so it would have to be some kind of other criminal act.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?
BBC Two having a hustings debate between Lib Dem candidates on Friday July 19 - bit late is it not
A tad. Although as of today 2/3rds of members haven't voted
My wife won’t vote, although I would have to exercise the right for her unfortunately, because her ballot has gone to a defunct email address who’s recovery email addresses are also defunct.
I think an email ballot has many weaknesses, including that one. Emails are easier to ignore or forget about. But it is of course much cheaper.
Given that Darroch was due to leave in a few months anyway, it seems entirely reasonable to see this leak as not just an attack on him, but a deliberate shot across of the bows of the entire civil service by the Brexiteers: “do not f*ck with us, or we will throw you under the bus faster than you can blink” is the message & I imagine it’s being heard loud and clear.
Whether that will mean that the Brexiteers actually get what they want is another question entirely of course.
It certainly hasn't helped them so far. On the contrary.
One of the effects of this leak will be that people (i.e. sources) will be slightly more reluctant to talk to British officials, lest it get released.
It's depressing when you consider that all of the people who worked at Bletchley Park kept everything secret for more than 30 years until the work there during the war was officially made public in the 1970s.
I hope all Tory members who are merrily voting for Boris can live with themselves.
His tenure was ending soon anyway and Trunp had already frozen him out.
Whoever leaked should be in jail but realistically the moment this was published he was doomed. He should have fallen on his sword days ago.
Perhaps we should freeze out the US Ambassador following the comments he has made quite publicly about our Prime Minister and the Mayor of London.
If you can't see that we are just giving in to an overgrown baby and bully to boot then you are entirely missing the point. This is a glimpse of our future after Brexit with Johnson playing Trump's poodle. Any trade deal will be what Trump decides it will be and if we argue he'll throw another tantrum
What has Woody Johnson said negative about May or Khan? Nothing, he has been a model of diplomacy
How on earth do you know?
His comments haven’t been leaked.
If he hasn’t had some uncomplimentary things to say about the U.K. government he isn’t doing his job.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Patience, he is not in yet. Once he is, the morale of not just the Conservative Party but the country as a whole (apart from Glasgow and Liverpool) is going to receive a welcome boost. The jokes, the witty metaphors, the aphorisms, sometimes in Latin, will flow from despatch box, lecturn and TV studio alike. A nation will chuckle along, relieved to be free of the miserabilist 'no can't do' politics of recent years. Corbyn will be left for dead and the EU will be essentially laughed into dropping the backstop. This, mark my words, is the future which awaits us.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Patience, he is not in yet. Once he is, the morale of not just the Conservative Party but the country as a whole (apart from Glasgow and Liverpool) is going to receive a welcome boost. The jokes, the witty metaphors, the aphorisms, sometimes in Latin, will flow from despatch box, lecturn and TV studio alike. A nation will chuckle along, relieved to be free of the miserabilist 'no can't do' politics of recent years. Corbyn will be left for dead and the EU will be essentially laughed into dropping the backstop. This, mark my words, is the future which awaits us.
But there's a limit to the size of the calendar and they're already over-egging things. If they went for a shit identikit city circuit and Silverstone suffered, Liberty would not endear itself to the fans.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Patience, he is not in yet. Once he is, the morale of not just the Conservative Party but the country as a whole (apart from Glasgow and Liverpool) is going to receive a welcome boost. The jokes, the witty metaphors, the aphorisms, sometimes in Latin, will flow from despatch box, lecturn and TV studio alike. A nation will chuckle along, relieved to be free of the miserabilist 'no can't do' politics of recent years. Corbyn will be left for dead and the EU will be essentially laughed into dropping the backstop. This, mark my words, is the future which awaits us.
That doesn't look like the landslide HYUFD has promised us.
Is there an adequate reason why Yougov seems to be the outlier in all these polls? I'm looking at @BritainElects and everyone else puts Lab ahead. Is it just by adding the hypothetical "if BJ is PM"?
Great fun watching the Remainer Establishment rallying around the loser Darroch. Imagine if they had put this much effort into winning the Referendum.....
Great fun watching the Remainer Establishment rallying around the loser Darroch. Imagine if they had put this much effort into winning the Referendum.....
This really has the potential to damage Boris further among the public. Being seen as Bush's poodle was hugely damaging to Blair's reputation, and the image is now set that Boris will be Trump's bichon frise. Trump is only getting more unpopular among the public, particularly with his attacks on May (a lot of people see it as OK for us to criticise her but not foreign leaders).
Emily Thronberry's comments are exactly the kind of response needed by Labour, got to tackle Boris hard. A few more scare stories about Boris selling the NHS to Trump and how our food supply will be poisoned by chlorinated chicken, and Boris will be in real trouble in an election even without factoring in the state of Brexit.
Great fun watching the Remainer Establishment rallying around the loser Darroch. Imagine if they had put this much effort into winning the Referendum.....
Great sadness watching those who consider themselves more patriotic than the rest of us establishing once and for all that their interests are aligned with foreign powers including malign influences like Putin and Trump and not the UK.
Great fun watching the Remainer Establishment rallying around the loser Darroch. Imagine if they had put this much effort into winning the Referendum.....
Great sadness watching those who consider themselves more patriotic than the rest of us establishing once and for all that their interests are aligned with foreign powers including malign influences like Putin and Trump and not the UK.
And backing the Etonian and US billionaire over the British guy from a council estate
Great fun watching the Remainer Establishment rallying around the loser Darroch. Imagine if they had put this much effort into winning the Referendum.....
Great fun watching the Remainer Establishment rallying around the loser Darroch. Imagine if they had put this much effort into winning the Referendum.....
Great sadness watching those who consider themselves more patriotic than the rest of us establishing once and for all that their interests are aligned with foreign powers including malign influences like Putin and Trump and not the UK.
Agreed. And pretty cheap to call one of our diplomats, shafted by an unprincipled leaker, a loser.
This really has the potential to damage Boris further among the public. Being seen as Bush's poodle was hugely damaging to Blair's reputation, and the image is now set that Boris will be Trump's bichon frise. Trump is only getting more unpopular among the public, particularly with his attacks on May (a lot of people see it as OK for us to criticise her but not foreign leaders).
Emily Thronberry's comments are exactly the kind of response needed by Labour, got to tackle Boris hard. A few more scare stories about Boris selling the NHS to Trump and how our food supply will be poisoned by chlorinated chicken, and Boris will be in real trouble in an election even without factoring in the state of Brexit.
Yes this plays well for Labour. They should disparage Trump at every opportunity. The contrast with the inevitable grovelling to him by a Johnson government and by the Brexit Party will be a net vote winner.
"The Electoral Commission and the Information Commissioner’s Office have harassed Vote Leave campaigners. Eurosceptic donors even appear to have been targeted by the tax authorities. At the same time, senior civil servants have taken full advantage of Theresa May’s disastrous readiness to be ruled by official advice."
Hannan quite openly stating his aim of tearing apart British institutions in his latest piece.
BoZo's disgraceful bum licking of Trump over this affair is yet another piece of evidence that being in favour of Brexit does not make you a patriot. A nationalist, yes, but patriot no.
Comments
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1148911438301421569
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/07/kim-darroch-the-simple-explanation/
The 2 worst defeats for the Tories since the 1832 Great Reform Act came in 1906 under Balfour and 1997 under Major came under non ultra leaders
Whether that will mean that the Brexiteers actually get what they want is another question entirely of course.
Rare I agree with Boris Johnson but his remarks from what looked like a boozer somewhere in London were quite valid.
I suspect every ambassador from every country routinely sends back to their home Government the kind of communications Kim Darroch sent. It is an integral part of their job and a form of covert intelligence gathering that is a part of what diplomacy is and what diplomats do.
Getting a sense of how each Government operates outside the protocols of inter-Governmental business is of huge value to any Government in its international relations. I suspect it is something at which the FCO has been very good in times past.
I also agree with Boris whomsoever leaked the communications needs to be found and properly prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Should the leaker be uncovered, we might find out. Unless it gets quietly buried under PM Johnson.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/48923852
This is particularly important given that we might well be soon negotiating some important trade deals with the US.
His comments haven’t been leaked.
If he hasn’t had some uncomplimentary things to say about the U.K. government he isn’t doing his job.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48933290
Could go to the last over.
But there's a limit to the size of the calendar and they're already over-egging things. If they went for a shit identikit city circuit and Silverstone suffered, Liberty would not endear itself to the fans.
Con 23%
LibDem 23%
BXP 21%
Lab 17%
Great effort by Jadeja though.
Sure. But word of warning - it wears off quick and leaves you lower than you were before.
Emily Thronberry's comments are exactly the kind of response needed by Labour, got to tackle Boris hard. A few more scare stories about Boris selling the NHS to Trump and how our food supply will be poisoned by chlorinated chicken, and Boris will be in real trouble in an election even without factoring in the state of Brexit.
A surprising result given the way they had played up until now.
Tomorrow's match will be the big one. Though the weather forecast is a bit iffy.
Many of those who voted to Leave think Boris' approach to this has been lamentable.
And pretty cheap to call one of our diplomats, shafted by an unprincipled leaker, a loser.
The only politicians who has managed to come out of this latest fiasco looking worse than BoZo.
Awesome job
Yep..
Tory members voting for this man should be ashamed of themselves.
"The Electoral Commission and the Information Commissioner’s Office have harassed Vote Leave campaigners. Eurosceptic donors even appear to have been targeted by the tax authorities. At the same time, senior civil servants have taken full advantage of Theresa May’s disastrous readiness to be ruled by official advice."
Hannan quite openly stating his aim of tearing apart British institutions in his latest piece.