No, he wasn’t. His position was untenable since the first moment that Trump made an issue of the leaks.
He was smart enough to realise that.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him recognised in the honours list in January. Plus some sinecures somewhere over the next 12 months
The penalty for leaking the cables of a US ambassador will be very steep, I am assuming. They are looking at prison surely?
Why would anyone (FO official/Spad etc) take such a risk?
There must have been a mighty reward involved or some overbearing reason.
I don’t think it’s a professional. It could be a politician (but I’m not sure what they gain - the leaks aren’t that embarrassing except to Darroch)
Someone last night suggested the American - I had thought that a possibility. Trump demonstrates his power, tests the U.K. and distracts from whatever he needs to distract from (Epstein?)
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
If “LD” has risen to the insult of choice amongst diehard Tories, the party must be making real progress toward breaking the two party system! The Corbynite equivalent is still to call party colleagues a “Tory”.
It is only Hyufd who has taken to labelling his fellow conservatives LD if they do not agree with his great hero Boris. He has also adopted a 'diehard' tag to remainers
He has become an extreme ERG disiciple influenced by another hero of his IDS
One has to be careful following political tides as they always change and an individual can easily become stranded with no way back...
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Your set response to a fellow conservative who criticise Boris is beyond contempt
It’s like he’s modelled his view of how politics works on the house of cards
It must be a cutthroat world amid the diehard councillors of Epping parish.
😂
When the stakes are small...
It is the grassroots imcluding me who campaign and canvass day in and day out and weekends in all weathers for the party and they now want a leader they believe in ie Boris.
So be as patronising as you want Charles but without the grassroots the party would be nothing and nobody would get elected anyway
I trust you are telling any voter who expresses any view other than no deal do or die that they should be voting LibDem....
Did Darroch not resign? He was leaving soon anyway. Makes sense to fall on your sword when security is compromised. I just hope they find whoever leaked it.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
Which Tory leadership candidates would you classify as Lib Dems on the same basis? Michael Gove?
Rory Stewart certainly and Dominic Grieve and Philip Lee and Justine Greening too on the backbenches
I would happily take all of those, although Dominic might struggle in the LibDems.
But it would be nicer if you would let us pick?
Wouldn’t it be good if at the announcement of the Lib Dem leadership result the curtain opens and ther sits our now 25 strong parliamentary party waiting to greet their new leader!
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Your set response to a fellow conservative who criticise Boris is beyond contempt
It’s like he’s modelled his view of how politics works on the house of cards
It must be a cutthroat world amid the diehard councillors of Epping parish.
😂
When the stakes are small...
It is the grassroots imcluding me who campaign and canvass day in and day out and weekends in all weathers for the party and they now want a leader they believe in ie Boris.
So be as patronising as you want Charles but without the grassroots the party would be nothing and nobody would get elected anyway
You may be canvassing support but losing it in equal measure
Perhaps it's time to accept that long-term trends mean the UK *will* break up. Brexit is just a catalyst and stopping Brexit won't keep the UK together.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
But you are trying to slam the door behind him
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
If voting for another party counts as leaving, your membership is down by 50% already.
When I was a LibDem councillor I had Tory members voting for me. My record was support from five people who had signed the Tory candidates’ nomination papers, two of whom had my poster in their window.
Perhaps it's time to accept that long-term trends mean the UK *will* break up. Brexit is just a catalyst and stopping Brexit won't keep the UK together.
I do not accept that for one minute but you have a long history of almost wishing it on us
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
Give it a rest
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
Surely game was up when Trump chose to freeze him out? An Ambassador who is frozen out is not much of an Ambassador.
It shouldn't have been leaked and we should investigate and punish whoever did it, but our diplomatic corps need to realise leaks are quite probable in the internet age. Shouldn't be, but are. Pandora's Box can't be closed.
Quite. There’s lots to dislike about Boris and I said last night that I thought his comments disloyal, but an ambassador whose confidential thoughts have been exposed is no longer a good ambassador. It would have been very difficult to see how he would have been able to stay in post, no matter the flag waving from some politicians.
Indeed it's hard to see any alternative. Realistically it is like Alastair Campbell said when you are the story it is time to go.
I hope all Tory members who are merrily voting for Boris can live with themselves.
His tenure was ending soon anyway and Trunp had already frozen him out.
Whoever leaked should be in jail but realistically the moment this was published he was doomed. He should have fallen on his sword days ago.
Perhaps we should freeze out the US Ambassador following the comments he has made quite publicly about our Prime Minister and the Mayor of London.
If you can't see that we are just giving in to an overgrown baby and bully to boot then you are entirely missing the point. This is a glimpse of our future after Brexit with Johnson playing Trump's poodle. Any trade deal will be what Trump decides it will be and if we argue he'll throw another tantrum
What has Woody Johnson said negative about May or Khan? Nothing, he has been a model of diplomacy and a savvy ex businessman
Deliberately missing the point again.
You have absolutely no idea what the US Ambassador says in his private communications.
If Trump can freeze out our Ambassador for expressing private (and by all accounts accurate) views of how the White House operates why should we not do the same. When Trump publicly attacks our PM and Mayor do you not think his Ambassador is doing the same.
The precedent has been set that anyone that wants an Ambassador removed simply has to leak private communications.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
Give it a rest
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainers
I hope all Tory members who are merrily voting for Boris can live with themselves.
His tenure was ending soon anyway and Trunp had already frozen him out.
Whoever leaked should be in jail but realistically the moment this was published he was doomed. He should have fallen on his sword days ago.
Perhaps we should freeze out the US Ambassador following the comments he has made quite publicly about our Prime Minister and the Mayor of London.
If you can't see that we are just giving in to an overgrown baby and bully to boot then you are entirely missing the point. This is a glimpse of our future after Brexit with Johnson playing Trump's poodle. Any trade deal will be what Trump decides it will be and if we argue he'll throw another tantrum
So the future is no different to the past?
For those who are making contrasts with Love Actually it is worth remembering that scene was written due to complaints our PM was Bush's poodle. At least here we aren't talking about war.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.
If the likes of Duncan, Burt etc decide to sit on the backbenches, Johnson may have the same issue that Corbyn did after all those resignations, of literally having to put anyone who will serve on the front-bench, no matter their expertise, nut-job factor or experience. One thing doing that in opposition, but right now in Government? Even for those not prepared to no-con on the Tory backbenches, having a rump who won't lift a finger to help Boris out could incapacitate him.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
It isn't really. Suez was a one off adventure that many people thought was a mistake and was never repeated. Brexit is a state of continual subjugation.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
But you are trying to slam the door behind him
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
Don’t be part of that mistake
From 1965 to 1975 Heathites lost 3 out of 4 general elections, it took Thatcher to win the next 3 on the trot.
Given the majority of the country's voters and the vast majority of Tories voted Leave it is failing to respect that decision and implement it Deal or No Deal that will really cost the Tories
My experience of Tory grassroots in an ultra marginal is that there's no love for Boris.
Well the polling suggests Boris will win a landslide with his grassroots which is more than can be said for Jo Swinson with hers
Hardly. I'm undecided who to vote for in the leadership but I'd be delighted with either candidate. Not sure many Tories could say the same in their contest.
I hope all Tory members who are merrily voting for Boris can live with themselves.
His tenure was ending soon anyway and Trunp had already frozen him out.
Whoever leaked should be in jail but realistically the moment this was published he was doomed. He should have fallen on his sword days ago.
Perhaps we should freeze out the US Ambassador following the comments he has made quite publicly about our Prime Minister and the Mayor of London.
If you can't see that we are just giving in to an overgrown baby and bully to boot then you are entirely missing the point. This is a glimpse of our future after Brexit with Johnson playing Trump's poodle. Any trade deal will be what Trump decides it will be and if we argue he'll throw another tantrum
What has Woody Johnson said negative about May or Khan? Nothing, he has been a model of diplomacy and a savvy ex businessman
Deliberately missing the point again.
You have absolutely no idea what the US Ambassador says in his private communications.
If Trump can freeze out our Ambassador for expressing private (and by all accounts accurate) views of how the White House operates why should we not do the same. When Trump publicly attacks our PM and Mayor do you not think his Ambassador is doing the same.
The precedent has been set that anyone that wants an Ambassador removed simply has to leak private communications.
Trump didn't freeze him out for private communications he froze him only when the communications became public.
The precedence is not new. Leaks are old as time and have been extremely common post Wikileaks.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
If voting for another party counts as leaving, your membership is down by 50% already.
When I was a LibDem councillor I had Tory members voting for me. My record was support from five people who had signed the Tory candidates’ nomination papers, two of whom had my poster in their window.
I have known near Powellites voting LD at local elections to mend potholes etc.
That is rather different to stating openly you will vote for another party at a general election and opposing openly implementation of such a key party policy as Brexit
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
Official secrets act? It was surely marked secret/top secret.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
Almost certainly a breach of the Official Secrets Act surely?
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
Official secrets act? It was surely marked secret/top secret.
A maximum of fourteen years, and sentences can be consecutive for multiple breaches.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
I think it was Alan Duncan making a statement in Parliament on Monday, I'm not 100% sure though, anyway whoever it was used the word "classified" to describe the communications. So assuming that statement is factual it is indeed a criminal offence.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
I have to feel sorry for Darroch: he has been let down by his own side.
I've repeatedly said that I can't vote for a Conservative Party led by Boris, and have given a number of reasons. His handling of this situation is just another brick in a mighty wall of evidence.
I won't be alone.
(Cue so-called 'Conservatives' saying: "We don't need your vote!")
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.
I don’t think you can exclude them. I work on the assumption that the Russians, Chinese, Americans and probably the French have access to pretty much every secret government communication
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit
If you leak diplomatic correspondence., you are "guilty of the worst breach of trust in our service" . Really? I would be more bothered about civil servants whose actions led to people not getting their benefit payments and not having enough money to eat, for example
I have to feel sorry for Darroch: he has been let down by his own side.
I've repeatedly said that I can't vote for a Conservative Party led by Boris, and have given a number of reasons. His handling of this situation is just another brick in a mighty wall of evidence.
I won't be alone.
(Cue so-called 'Conservatives' saying: "We don't need your vote!")
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
We can't leave October 31. There is no majority for it. If Parliament is prorogued there will be no laws in place to implement it. Boris ignores these facts by conjuring up entirely imaginary re-negotiations and implementation periods. Hope the 1922 postman is doing some weight training ready for November 1.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?
The honeymoon will be over and the funeral will be in the diary.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.
There's an interesting question whether Isabel Oakeshott herself might have committed the procuring offence.
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
Give it a rest
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainers
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.
There's an interesting question whether Isabel Oakeshott herself might have committed the procuring offence.
I'd be hesitant to convict a journalist. It's the leaker that should be made to regret ever waking up that fateful morning that they leaked it.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?
Someone on here said there was no barrier to an instant challenge a few days ago. Can't remember who it was though. Which is interesting, as he could have 15% the day after he wins!
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
Give it a rest
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainers
It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he did
But you are trying to slam the door behind him
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
Don’t be part of that mistake
From 1965 to 1975 Heathites lost 3 out of 4 general elections, it took Thatcher to win the next 3 on the trot.
Given the majority of the country's voters and the vast majority of Tories voted Leave it is failing to respect that decision and implement it Deal or No Deal that will really cost the Tories
So they were in power for 40% of that time?
And from 1951-1964. Shall we agree that 17/24 years is not that bad a result?
Thatcher was a Radical, not an Ultra. The support of the likes of Whitelaw and Hailsham was a key part of her coalition.
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?
The honeymoon will be over and the funeral will be in the diary.
No one is going to write immediately, he would still win the vote.
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit
If you leak diplomatic correspondence., you are "guilty of the worst breach of trust in our service" . Really? I would be more bothered about civil servants whose actions led to people not getting their benefit payments and not having enough money to eat, for example
The leaking of diplomatic correspondence (or its interception) can lead to war. The Zimmermann Telegram being a classic example.
Countries need to have their secrets, and they need to be able to talk secretly internally as well as externally. This leaking by an internal source is a massive breach of trust, and one whose consequences may be uncertain for some time.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.
There's an interesting question whether Isabel Oakeshott herself might have committed the procuring offence.
I'd be hesitant to convict a journalist. It's the leaker that should be made to regret ever waking up that fateful morning that they leaked it.
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.
I don’t think you can exclude them. I work on the assumption that the Russians, Chinese, Americans and probably the French have access to pretty much every secret government communication
Comments
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1148927977306099714
Someone last night suggested the American - I had thought that a possibility. Trump demonstrates his power, tests the U.K. and distracts from whatever he needs to distract from (Epstein?)
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
Don’t be part of that mistake
If voting for another party counts as leaving, your membership is down by 50% already.
When I was a LibDem councillor I had Tory members voting for me. My record was support from five people who had signed the Tory candidates’ nomination papers, two of whom had my poster in their window.
https://mailchi.mp/9d6e45eaf7b2/tories-and-brexit-party-should-work-together-to-secure-brexit-69-of-leave-voters-say
Maybe another name for the little list.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit
Isabel Oakeshott has blabbed on sources before, so I hope that her source this time has some changes of underwear.
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
You have absolutely no idea what the US Ambassador says in his private communications.
If Trump can freeze out our Ambassador for expressing private (and by all accounts accurate) views of how the White House operates why should we not do the same. When Trump publicly attacks our PM and Mayor do you not think his Ambassador is doing the same.
The precedent has been set that anyone that wants an Ambassador removed simply has to leak private communications.
For those who are making contrasts with Love Actually it is worth remembering that scene was written due to complaints our PM was Bush's poodle. At least here we aren't talking about war.
Given the majority of the country's voters and the vast majority of Tories voted Leave it is failing to respect that decision and implement it Deal or No Deal that will really cost the Tories
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
The precedence is not new. Leaks are old as time and have been extremely common post Wikileaks.
That is rather different to stating openly you will vote for another party at a general election and opposing openly implementation of such a key party policy as Brexit
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1148298496140820480
At least Boris actually believes in it and is optimistic about Brexit
I've repeatedly said that I can't vote for a Conservative Party led by Boris, and have given a number of reasons. His handling of this situation is just another brick in a mighty wall of evidence.
I won't be alone.
(Cue so-called 'Conservatives' saying: "We don't need your vote!")
If Parliament is prorogued there will be no laws in place to implement it.
Boris ignores these facts by conjuring up entirely imaginary re-negotiations and implementation periods.
Hope the 1922 postman is doing some weight training ready for November 1.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_(novel)
It’s essentially Disraeli’s move to reposition his party from the Ultras to the Whiggish tradition of paternalism and philanthropy
Which is interesting, as he could have 15% the day after he wins!
And from 1951-1964. Shall we agree that 17/24 years is not that bad a result?
Thatcher was a Radical, not an Ultra. The support of the likes of Whitelaw and Hailsham was a key part of her coalition.
The more likely issue is a VoNC...
Countries need to have their secrets, and they need to be able to talk secretly internally as well as externally. This leaking by an internal source is a massive breach of trust, and one whose consequences may be uncertain for some time.
However they still backed Brexit and still do