politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The chaos continues as MPs reject all options Brexit

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.

The winner tonight was the speaker wasn’t it?

Like a handicapper seeing ten horses cross the line in a dead heat.

15 Conservatives for a people's vote.

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1112828998114054144?s=20

Any spread market on the majority at the end of the week?

https://twitter.com/judeinlondon2/status/1112827933507420160

viewcode said:

Andrew said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/jason_manc/status/1112829884831760385

The pro-EU fanatics and the ERG ultras are two cheeks of the same arse. They get their way or the world burns.

Agreed.

Absolutely. I'm a foolish old Remainer, but we need to exit in the least damaging way possible.

They all need to grow the hell up.

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1112828931818881025

Is it even possible to be "progressive" and "conservative" ?

The Canadians thought so.

But they did rather test the thesis to destruction...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Conservative_Party_of_Canada

I mean I'm all for the indicative votes thing but was it *really* always a 3 stage process as Anna Soubry says? I'd have accepted it was always a 2 stage process but...

Surely we nowhave more independents in parliament than for a very long time.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Pulpstar said:

Boles: SNP 32, Lab 185, Con 33, Ind 5, Plaid 4, Lib Dem 2
Clarke: Lab 230, Con 37, Ind 5, Lib Dem 1
Kyle-Wilson SNP 31, Lab 203, Con 15, Ind 15, Green 1, Plaid 4

Very surprised the SNP didn't back a Customs Union.

SNP want single market or bust.

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.

Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.

FF43 said:

I don't see a way through this. May's Deal certainly isn't it. No Deal is the least popular option of them all. And the rest of the options a just being squabbled over.

AV AV AV AV!

18 labour abstentions on PV..... any shadow cabinet?

Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?

Alistair said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Pulpstar said:

Boles: SNP 32, Lab 185, Con 33, Ind 5, Plaid 4, Lib Dem 2
Clarke: Lab 230, Con 37, Ind 5, Lib Dem 1
Kyle-Wilson SNP 31, Lab 203, Con 15, Ind 15, Green 1, Plaid 4

Very surprised the SNP didn't back a Customs Union.

SNP want single market or bust.

Bust for them is a calculation that increases the prospect of a Scottish independence referendum, so it's not hard to see why. They're as entrenched as the DUP.

God Mark Francois is a twat. I mean no news there but god he is.

Jonathan said:

numbertwelve said:

Jonathan said:

solarflare said:

SouthamObserver said:

Amazing to watch our entire political system blowing up. It is incredibly hard to see how it get puts back together again.

It just can't cope with both party politics and Leave/Remain. Too many division lines.

It can’t cope with an utterly incompetent and impotent executive.

Then it has options to get rid of that executive. But it doesn’t seem to want to do that either.

The government is utterly incompetent and impotent, true. Thing is, Parliament is behaving no better.

The poorly drafted ftpa and poorly drafted party leadership rules seriously compromised our ability to deal with the executive. David Cameron, the git that keeps on giving.

Clegg, don't you mean?

solarflare said:

I mean I'm all for the indicative votes thing but was it *really* always a 3 stage process as Anna Soubry says? I'd have accepted it was always a 2 stage process but...

I don't recall the Wednesday option being talked about much when the Letwin plan was first approved. I think even they have been taken aback that nothing has yet managed a majority.

Foxy said:

Surely we nowhave more independents in parliament than for a very long time.

Until the Tiggers' party application goes through, for sure.

glw said:

Jonathan said:

The poorly drafted ftpa and poorly drafted party leadership rules seriously compromised our ability to deal with the executive. David Cameron, the git that keeps on giving.

I think most of the constitutional reform since Major was in power has been very poor.

FTPA. Ahhhhhhh! What a clusterf*ck that has been. I suspect historians will devote considerable page space to it, when the books are written.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?

Already stocked up.....

kle4 said:

BBC site seems to be pushing that the referendum option got the most support. Not sure how relevant that is when another option came closer, and another option other than tonight got more support. If the government option is derided compared to a referendum because it got defeated by more, than that makes the CU close call more relevant than the referendum vote.

On a whipped vote, a 2nd referendum will be comfortably defeated, as 10 DUP, and 30 Opposition will vote with the government.

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm feeling a lot like Nick Boles at the moment.

Who’s the Tory MP who appealed to Nick not to go?

Pass.

Gove's going to be gutted.

Pulpstar said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm feeling a lot like Nick Boles at the moment.

Who’s the Tory MP who appealed to Nick not to go?

Was it Huw Merriman ?

Twitter view is that it was Merriman.

Or 2 of 3?
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1112824110193823745?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1112824110193823745&ref_url=http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/04/01/the-chaos-continues-as-mps-reject-all-options-brexit/

MaxPB said:

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.

Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.

Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.

I think a general election is all but inevitable, deal or no deal. It is quite obvious that this whole parliament is exhausted and out of ideas.

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

viewcode said:

Andrew said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/jason_manc/status/1112829884831760385

The pro-EU fanatics and the ERG ultras are two cheeks of the same arse. They get their way or the world burns.

Agreed.

Absolutely. I'm a foolish old Remainer, but we need to exit in the least damaging way possible.

They all need to grow the hell up.

There's no incentive for them to do so. They will drive this thing into the ground and suffer not one jot for it.

So - who reckons our mp's deserved that last pay rise?

Bunch of donkeys led by donkeys

As for the speaker........

He could have a career as a merchant banker

Jonathan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.

She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.

Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.

Pulpstar said:

Lab ex mining constituencies say "No" to a people's vote:

Rother Valley, Blyth Valley, Rotherham, West Lancashire, Dagenham, Don Valley, Makerfield, North Tyneside, Jarrow, Vauxhall, Barnsley Central, Warrington North, North Durham, South Shields, Bassetlaw, Easington, Barnsley East, Stoke North, Crewe, Stoke Central, Blackley, Halton.

Plenty of Lab ex mining constituencies also voted ‘Yes’ to peoples vote including mine (Newcastle upon Tyne North)

Andrew said:

The pro-EU fanatics and the ERG ultras are two cheeks of the same arse. They get their way or the world burns.

I've noticed Farage and Ali Campbell seem to get on really well personally...

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1112828931818881025

I've a great deal of sympathy for Boles and I don't think you could doubt he's been trying to find compromise of sorts in reasonably good faith. Still, must be tough quitting to become an Independent only to find that the independent group all voted against you and you have to sit on your own.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Jonathan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.

She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.

Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.

Partisanship.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Jonathan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.

She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.

Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.

They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.

noneoftheabove said:

viewcode said:

Andrew said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/jason_manc/status/1112829884831760385

The pro-EU fanatics and the ERG ultras are two cheeks of the same arse. They get their way or the world burns.

Agreed.

Very disappointing from the LibDems and TIGgers. None of the parties offering anything for pragmatists who just want to move on with anything that avoids no deal.

These votes are indicative so it should be for the government to analyse the results and work out how they can craft a majority. The only viable option is to put their deal to a people's vote.

We now have the massive splits in direction showing in all parties (bar DUP and SNP). Impossible to pull a party together never mind parties.

So we'll have increased rowing. More resignations. We'll crash out with no deal. And then a general election where both major parties are lead by useless deadweight idiots most MPs want shut of with a policy platform of Fuck Knows

Everybody blaming the House of Commons, wrongly in my view.

The country is very divided, and many on both sides are deeply entrenched in their opinion. Moreover the tectonic plates of opinion are no longer reflected by the political parties. Given Given the curve ball the electorate threw them, they could have made a better job , but it was never going to be easy. In retrospect something like this was almost inevitable. Gina Miller is possibly the one to blame. Prophets of doom should lighten up

We have these periodic convulsions when the system re-aligns to changes in the country - Fox-North Coalition and Pitt in the 1780's, Liberal split in the 1880's, Labour replacing the Liberals in the 20's. This is just another. They are messy but 10 years later we will be asking "What was all that stuff and nonsense about?"

FWIW I just can't see the logical steps that need to be gone through to meet the FTPA and so bring about a fresh election. Not least because of how it interacts with the timings for a Tory leadership election

https://twitter.com/DonaldT75296330/status/1112798677825880065

Foxy said:

Andrew said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/jason_manc/status/1112829884831760385

The pro-EU fanatics and the ERG ultras are two cheeks of the same arse. They get their way or the world burns.

Personally I agree with both of them. MPs should note vote for outcomes that they do not want to happen.

Even when their refusal to compromise is increasing the chances of the worst outcome of all??

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm feeling a lot like Nick Boles at the moment.

Who’s the Tory MP who appealed to Nick not to go?

Sounded like Rory to me.

Jonathan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Jonathan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.

She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.

Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.

They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.

She just offered the WA with no strings attached. How is that not movement?!

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?

You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.

My mother, who is veteran stockpiler from the 1970s, when we last tried to burn our own country to the ground, informs me that the main toilet paper manufacturers have an enormous stockpile ready.

Brie is another matter.

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

FF43 said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

May certainly holds a degree of (ir)responsibility by trying to undermine the process, rather than attempting to find a consensus and a way forward.

She needs to adopt a compromise position for the govt. it’s quite straightforward really.

But it's ok for others not to compromise, got it.

Corbyn has moved. Hell, even half the ERG moved. The only person who has not moved is May.

May's Deal brought back. 3-line Whip. Those who vote against will not be eligible as candidates in the GE that will follow if May's Shit Deal doesn't pass.

Then a GE, where the Conservative Party candidates are required to unite behind passing May's Deal.

Labour? Who knows what they will go with.... but no ifs, no buts, this will be a Brexit election.

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/DonaldT75296330/status/1112798677825880065

You're quoting Parody Accounts now?

Some April Fool.

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Jonathan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.

She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.

Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.

They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.

She just offered the WA with no strings attached. How is that not movement?!

Jon is not exactly what I would call an impartial observer

MaxPB said:

SouthamObserver said:

MaxPB said:

Sean_F said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.

Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.

May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.

Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.

Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.

Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.

We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.

Total horsesh*t. Your party is in power and therefore has a responsibility to govern. It is not governing. It was clear at Christmas that the deal is no good and your party has wasted 3 f*cking months and for what?

The government will go down in history, not the opposition.

SouthamObserver said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1112828931818881025

And thus the Cameron project to modernise the Conservative Party finally dies. I don’t see how the “traditional” one in alliance with hard right English nationalism gets an electoral majority ever again.

Quite a few younger Tory MPs are fiercely anti-EU and pro-free market, often perceiving those two facets as going hand-in-hand, but at the same time are socially progressive from a liberal-to-libertarian perspective. If it was just Olde Style traditionalists and parochial English nationalism then it would be hard for the Tories to move with either the tempora or the mores, and I'm sure you're right they'd struggle to achieve a majority - though "ever" is a bigger word than its four meagre letters suggest.

But I don't see that the remaining Cameroons are the key to Tory prospects in 10 or 20 years' time. The personnel from that political project will have largely left the stage by then and it's the next generation (part of Cameron's legacy but not part of his Project). Political tastes of the electorate wax and wane, and I wouldn't write off a sufficient chunk of some future electorate signing up to "we pay too much in taxes and I'm fed up with the government nannying us" while not being interested in rejoining the EU.

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?

You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.

My mother, who is veteran stockpiler from the 1970s, when we last tried to burn our own country to the ground, informs me that the main toilet paper manufacturers have an enormous stockpile ready.

Brie is another matter.

Might double up the Sainsbo's delivery again this week. Don't want to run low on pineapple.