May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Yep, Labour is likely to pick up most of the votes of those who oppose No Deal once an election comes. My guess is there’ll be more of them than support No Deal.
The number of people who don't get this is a parody account, and think that Donald Tusk has the twitter handle 'Donald Tusk not', gives me no hope for humanity at all.
PS anyone know who shouted "YES" in the HoC on the announcement of 280 Ayes for the Kyle amendment, only to find Noes got 292?
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
May stripped out the entire political declaration !!! You know the bit Corbyn had an issue with, then he opposed it. Oh of course he opposed it... on the basis it was a .............. "blindfold Brexit". Anything we do requires the WA to be passed, and you accuse May of not compromising ?!
The hypocrisy of Corbyn's Labour is a wonder to behold.
And thus the Cameron project to modernise the Conservative Party finally dies. I don’t see how the “traditional” one in alliance with hard right English nationalism gets an electoral majority ever again.
By losing Scotland, which is very likely if No Deal, England had a Tory majority of 60 at the last general election. Even England and Wales alone had a Tory majority of 36.
Fair point. The break-up of the UK could do the trick in the abstract, but the practical consequences of that happening are less predictable IMO.
I think the idea that if Scotland left there would be a built in Tory majority is wishful thinking. What I believe would happen - though I have no evidence for it - is that there would be a rebalancing of public opinion and we would end up pretty much back at the sort of party ratios we have seen over the last 40 or 50 years.
So the ERG are even closer now to winning, aren’t they? No Deal inches closer. Barely a week to go.
And being closer to winning presumably puts more of them in the Drax position of being less willing to give the WA another shot.
Parliament really has disappointed when it has 'taken control'. First they didn't pass Letwin the first time even though May and co had messed everything up, then both votes after Letwin nothing passes! Multi stage, sure, but don't tell me they expected that.
Aren't the DUP going to notice, at some point, that No Deal/WTO crapfest involves a harder border than anything they tell their kids at bedtime as a horror story?
DUP are not bothered by a border on land, they don't want one at sea.
No. Fuck off Matt. You've been defeated massively three times .it's dead. As is your government
I don't think anybody should be objecting to repeated votes on things at this point since * Something needs to pass * Everything has failed at least once * Things are getting closer on subsequent votes
If anything May’s deal will go backwards now that ‘No Deal’ is an option again.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.
Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.
They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.
He's moved towards her position? Really?
Corbyn will offer anything and everything, except for anything that would be accepted or would in any way prevent No Deal. He is Leave's most doughty defender.
LMAO at people still pushing this line.
If Corbyn 'wanted' No Deal, it literally would've happened by now. Without him putting Labour in support of the Caroline Spelman motion blocking No Deal, it wouldn't have passed, and we would've automatically left the EU last Friday...
We now have the massive splits in direction showing in all parties (bar DUP and SNP). Impossible to pull a party together never mind parties.
So we'll have increased rowing. More resignations. We'll crash out with no deal. And then a general election where both major parties are lead by useless deadweight idiots most MPs want shut of with a policy platform of Fuck Knows
Can we vote for Cyclefree instead?
We could do worse.
There’s more sense talked on this forum than comes out of most MPs’ mouths.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Yep, Labour is likely to pick up most of the votes of those who oppose No Deal once an election comes. My guess is there’ll be more of them than support No Deal.
Honestly, you're kidding yourself just like all those Tory supporters were when May revealed the dementia tax/house snatching. Labour get fucked even worse by no deal than we do.
I would assume the ERG are on top of the world tonight as the legislation to stop no deal and approve our participation in the EU elections will not receive royal assent by a week on friday
TM attending the EU brexit crisis meeting on the 10th April will have the EU in a spin and the Irish Border will become the EU and Varadkar's worst nightmare, as they either put up a border or agree to no borders as predicted by the ERG and DUP
I would expect some form of transistion to no deal
It is more than possible, but equally HMG could have fallen in the meantime
Are you saying it’s the boost for May the times is declaring, or more boost for the 200 MPs manage no deal trying to force her hand?
I don’t think we are in position on 10th where EU have no answer to backstop. Heads of France and Germany working on it this week, likely no change at first, checks away from border later. Which if you don’t like idea of managed no deal is quite worrying?
Bit of a farce as expected. 2 routes from here IMO -
1. Pass the WA only. Leave. New Tory leader. General Election. 2. Extension. New Tory leader. General Election.
In (1) the election decides the Future Relationship. In (2) the election decides whether we have another Referendum.
And neither of those routes solve anything because they absences of decisions rather than decisions that could be agreed with or rejected.
Regrettably it's coming up to shock therapy where the threat of No Deal chaos (and let's not use "managed" euphimisms) or the real thing will panic politicians into some course of action.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Yep, Labour is likely to pick up most of the votes of those who oppose No Deal once an election comes. My guess is there’ll be more of them than support No Deal.
Honestly, you're kidding yourself just like all those Tory supporters were when May revealed the dementia tax/house snatching. Labour get fucked even worse by no deal than we do.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
May stripped out the entire political declaration !!! You know the bit Corbyn had an issue with, then he opposed it. Oh of course he opposed it... on the basis it was a .............. "blindfold Brexit". Anything we do requires the WA to be passed, and you accuse May of not compromising ?!
Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?
You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.
My mother, who is veteran stockpiler from the 1970s, when we last tried to burn our own country to the ground, informs me that the main toilet paper manufacturers have an enormous stockpile ready.
Brie is another matter.
Might double up the Sainsbo's delivery again this week. Don't want to run low on pineapple.
Very wise.
I have been astonished that the panic buying has not started.
Clearly, that's my age, and vast majority under 55 think the old just in time supply system is the god given right of any free born englishman who has a wifi connection.
It'll start next Thursday when it's clear from the EU Summit that they are washing their hands of us
They'll all be late then. This weekend is the last shopping trip before le deluge.
Anne Widdecombe says it's the worst Prime Minister since Eden, worst opposition leader in the history of the Labour party, and worst Parliament since Cromwell.
Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?
You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.
My mother, who is veteran stockpiler from the 1970s, when we last tried to burn our own country to the ground, informs me that the main toilet paper manufacturers have an enormous stockpile ready.
Brie is another matter.
Might double up the Sainsbo's delivery again this week. Don't want to run low on pineapple.
Very wise.
I have been astonished that the panic buying has not started.
Clearly, that's my age, and vast majority under 55 think the old just in time supply system is the god given right of any free born englishman who has a wifi connection.
Who needs panic buying when you have Amazon Prime?
No. Fuck off Matt. You've been defeated massively three times .it's dead. As is your government
I don't think anybody should be objecting to repeated votes on things at this point since * Something needs to pass * Everything has failed at least once * Things are getting closer on subsequent votes
Oh I get that. Whilst I don't think it right the government gets to have multiple goes, it's also not right that the other options keep going round and round.
No deal. Revoke. General Election. They remain the choices. Or, my prediction no deal and then a general election.
I look forward to having UKIP MP Tommy Robinson as Secretary of State for Justice
Anne Widdecombe says it's the worst Prime Minister since Eden, worst opposition leader in the history of the Labour party, and worst Parliament since Cromwell.
Unfair on Eden.
Worst PM since Lord North at least. And that might be unfair on Lord North.
I would assume the ERG are on top of the world tonight as the legislation to stop no deal and approve our participation in the EU elections will not receive royal assent by a week on friday
TM attending the EU brexit crisis meeting on the 10th April will have the EU in a spin and the Irish Border will become the EU and Varadkar's worst nightmare, as they either put up a border or agree to no borders as predicted by the ERG and DUP
I would expect some form of transistion to no deal
It is more than possible, but equally HMG could have fallen in the meantime
Are you saying it’s the boost for May the times is declaring, or more boost for the 200 MPs manage no deal trying to force her hand?
I don’t think we are in position on 10th where EU have no answer to backstop. Heads of France and Germany working on it this week, likely no change at first, checks away from border later. Which if you don’t like idea of managed no deal is quite worrying?
I was expressing a logic to the chain of events over the next 10 days
On a personal level I totally reject no deal and want the WDA approved, thereby allowing this country to go into transistion on the 22nd May
Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?
You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.
My mother, who is veteran stockpiler from the 1970s, when we last tried to burn our own country to the ground, informs me that the main toilet paper manufacturers have an enormous stockpile ready.
Brie is another matter.
Might double up the Sainsbo's delivery again this week. Don't want to run low on pineapple.
Very wise.
I have been astonished that the panic buying has not started.
Clearly, that's my age, and vast majority under 55 think the old just in time supply system is the god given right of any free born englishman who has a wifi connection.
It'll start next Thursday when it's clear from the EU Summit that they are washing their hands of us
They'll all be late then. This weekend is the last shopping trip before le deluge.
Oh sure. But panic buying starts orecizepr because it is too late
Anne Widdecombe says it's the worst Prime Minister since Eden, worst opposition leader in the history of the Labour party, and worst Parliament since Cromwell.
Which of Cromwell's parliaments was the worse, did she say?
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Yep, Labour is likely to pick up most of the votes of those who oppose No Deal once an election comes. My guess is there’ll be more of them than support No Deal.
Honestly, you're kidding yourself just like all those Tory supporters were when May revealed the dementia tax/house snatching. Labour get fucked even worse by no deal than we do.
Good luck with that, Max!
Your party is watching no deal happen. Your supporters want to avoid no deal. A free vote on MV3 would have seen it pass and we'd have avoided no deal and the options for the future relationship would be completely open for whatever customs union or other Labour policy proposal to spring on the government during the final votes, bit you didn't. Your party decided to vote it down. Taking us another step closer to no deal. Cowards.
Anne Widdecombe says it's the worst Prime Minister since Eden, worst opposition leader in the history of the Labour party, and worst Parliament since Cromwell.
Unfair on Eden.
Worst PM since Lord North at least. And that might be unfair on Lord North.
Lord North I reckon. Although there is always the Chamberlain factor.
No. Fuck off Matt. You've been defeated massively three times .it's dead. As is your government
I don't think anybody should be objecting to repeated votes on things at this point since * Something needs to pass * Everything has failed at least once * Things are getting closer on subsequent votes
Tell it to Bercow. Not that the general rule is a bad one, but these are exceptional circumstances, and as you say something needs to pass.
That's because most tories support Mays deal... no brainer
They need to pick their second favourite now, that’s the point.
Why? No one else is.
Quite a lot of MPs (including Corbyn) voted for multiple options tonight, actually.
Absolutely. Labour did it’s bit. If Corbyn can whip for Ken Clarke he has moved a loooooong way.
Then give labour MPs a free vote when MV4 comes back. The government just did it for Tory MPs. Loads of them voted for the customs union which is against current policy.
I would assume the ERG are on top of the world tonight as the legislation to stop no deal and approve our participation in the EU elections will not receive royal assent by a week on friday
TM attending the EU brexit crisis meeting on the 10th April will have the EU in a spin and the Irish Border will become the EU and Varadkar's worst nightmare, as they either put up a border or agree to no borders as predicted by the ERG and DUP
I would expect some form of transistion to no deal
It is more than possible, but equally HMG could have fallen in the meantime
I think you're right and if that happens the ERG and DUP should be lauded as heroes.
It is a win/win scenario.
The EU puts up a border and Varadkar will be slaughtered for screwing this up and they'll want a deal to get the border back down and goodbye backstop.
Or more likely as the ERG/DUP have said all along they don't put up a border, the bluff is called. Talks can begin to get a deal without the backstop.
Either way talks can begin on equals having stood up and refused to kowtow.
That's because most tories support Mays deal... no brainer
They need to pick their second favourite now, that’s the point.
Why? No one else is.
Quite a lot of MPs (including Corbyn) voted for multiple options tonight, actually.
Absolutely. Labour did it’s bit. If Corbyn can whip for Ken Clarke he has moved a loooooong way.
Then give labour MPs a free vote when MV4 comes back. The government just did it for Tory MPs. Loads of them voted for the customs union which is against current policy.
Mays deal lost three times. The onus is on the govt to offer something new. Perhaps something for the opposition this time. You know what we want. Protection for jobs and protection against what we see a deregulated free market Brexit. The right wing ultras will have to lose some of their so called trade deals. Go on, give it a try.
Anne Widdecombe says it's the worst Prime Minister since Eden, worst opposition leader in the history of the Labour party, and worst Parliament since Cromwell.
Which of Cromwell's parliaments was the worse, did she say?
The Common Market 2.0 criticism of People Vote MPs is classic pot kettle black name-calling. They're both as bad as each other - "you have to compromise by agreeing with me" is astonishingly infantile.
So Boles is going to sit alone as an Independent Progressive Conservative
A regular Nobby no-mates - at least until the next GE when he is unlikely to be asked to grace HoC with his presence.
I am disappointed in the way Boles reacted tonight. He has behaved in a generally reasonable manner as far as Brexit itself is concerned but his tendency to stamp off in a strop when he doesn't get his way as he did noth in his constituency and then again tonight show a real deep character flaw.
That's because most tories support Mays deal... no brainer
They need to pick their second favourite now, that’s the point.
Why? No one else is.
Quite a lot of MPs (including Corbyn) voted for multiple options tonight, actually.
Absolutely. Labour did it’s bit. If Corbyn can whip for Ken Clarke he has moved a loooooong way.
Then give labour MPs a free vote when MV4 comes back. The government just did it for Tory MPs. Loads of them voted for the customs union which is against current policy.
Mays deal lost three times. The onus is on the govt to offer something new. Perhaps something for the opposition this time. You know what we want. Protection for jobs and protection against what we see a deregulated free market Brexit. The right wing ultras will have to lose some of their so called trade deals. Go on, give it a try.
There is no other deal on offer from the EU. It is entirely appropriate to offer their deal again before we default to No Deal.
The Common Market 2.0 criticism of People Vote MPs is classic pot kettle black name-calling. They're both as bad as each other - "you have to compromise by agreeing with me" is astonishingly infantile.
To be fair to Nick Boles, he did vote for a People's Vote today after saying he wouldn't.
Comments
Corbyn and Milne must be salivating
PS anyone know who shouted "YES" in the HoC on the announcement of 280 Ayes for the Kyle amendment, only to find Noes got 292?
Why.
WHY?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M
Can you pick up a sack of popcorn too? Kthxbai
This is on all of them.
So they should approve whatever got the most votes, eh? May would like a word
There’s more sense talked on this forum than comes out of most MPs’ mouths.
(or no deal, both of which weren't voted on).
I don’t think we are in position on 10th where EU have no answer to backstop. Heads of France and Germany working on it this week, likely no change at first, checks away from border later. Which if you don’t like idea of managed no deal is quite worrying?
Regrettably it's coming up to shock therapy where the threat of No Deal chaos (and let's not use "managed" euphimisms) or the real thing will panic politicians into some course of action.
I want her to be kicked out. We need to see that justice happen.
No deal. Revoke. General Election. They remain the choices. Or, my prediction no deal and then a general election.
I look forward to having UKIP MP Tommy Robinson as Secretary of State for Justice
Worst PM since Lord North at least. And that might be unfair on Lord North.
Or GE.
The Cabinet decide tomorrow (although they will pretend May has another go first).
On a personal level I totally reject no deal and want the WDA approved, thereby allowing this country to go into transistion on the 22nd May
Ignore toilet roll - there really is so problem with that.
How many would cast for it?
Ah, it's been fixed now. Says 313. I think too many editors took Nick Boles off twice.
Again, answers on a postcard.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6874887/Pound-PLUNGES-against-euro-dollar-MPs-vote.html
https://twitter.com/gavinshuker/status/1112839301459595264
https://twitter.com/BethTMoore/status/1112840190006099968
It is a win/win scenario.
The EU puts up a border and Varadkar will be slaughtered for screwing this up and they'll want a deal to get the border back down and goodbye backstop.
Or more likely as the ERG/DUP have said all along they don't put up a border, the bluff is called. Talks can begin to get a deal without the backstop.
Either way talks can begin on equals having stood up and refused to kowtow.
TBF she has a point
Dennis Skinner for PV !