Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?
You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.
Last time, after convincing myself that no-deal was off the table, I managed to distract Mrs U with some offers on booze rather than fill the car with boring stuff like bog-roll.
I think I might have made a bit of a boo-boo....
Relax ffs - this isn't the end of the world.
Well I still have the bunker in the back garden that I made after Orange man got elected. So when the riots start, I can hide away ;-)
Lab ex mining constituencies say "No" to a people's vote:
Rother Valley, Blyth Valley, Rotherham, West Lancashire, Dagenham, Don Valley, Makerfield, North Tyneside, Jarrow, Vauxhall, Barnsley Central, Warrington North, North Durham, South Shields, Bassetlaw, Easington, Barnsley East, Stoke North, Crewe, Stoke Central, Blackley, Halton.
Lab ex mining constituencies say "No" to a people's vote:
Rother Valley, Blyth Valley, Rotherham, West Lancashire, Dagenham, Don Valley, Makerfield, North Tyneside, Jarrow, Vauxhall, Barnsley Central, Warrington North, North Durham, South Shields, Bassetlaw, Easington, Barnsley East, Stoke North, Crewe, Stoke Central, Blackley, Halton.
It might be interesting to see how many of those have local MPs and how many have parachuted in outsiders as MPs.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
Put the various options into numbered boxes. Have MPs vote on which box to open. Noel Fucking Edmonds can open the chosen box, reveal the rejected option, and then Monsieur Barnier can call up to offer a deal based on the remaining options
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
I think that is the only way the tories can survive this.
For the Marxists it is all about getting power - nothing else matters
I've a great deal of sympathy for Boles and I don't think you could doubt he's been trying to find compromise of sorts in reasonably good faith. Still, must be tough quitting to become an Independent only to find that the independent group all voted against you and you have to sit on your own.
Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?
You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.
My mother, who is veteran stockpiler from the 1970s, when we last tried to burn our own country to the ground, informs me that the main toilet paper manufacturers have an enormous stockpile ready.
Brie is another matter.
Might double up the Sainsbo's delivery again this week. Don't want to run low on pineapple.
Very wise.
I have been astonished that the panic buying has not started.
Clearly, that's my age, and vast majority under 55 think the old just in time supply system is the god given right of any free born englishman who has a wifi connection.
Lab ex mining constituencies say "No" to a people's vote:
Rother Valley, Blyth Valley, Rotherham, West Lancashire, Dagenham, Don Valley, Makerfield, North Tyneside, Jarrow, Vauxhall, Barnsley Central, Warrington North, North Durham, South Shields, Bassetlaw, Easington, Barnsley East, Stoke North, Crewe, Stoke Central, Blackley, Halton.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
May certainly holds a degree of (ir)responsibility by trying to undermine the process, rather than attempting to find a consensus and a way forward.
She needs to adopt a compromise position for the govt. it’s quite straightforward really.
But it's ok for others not to compromise, got it.
Corbyn has moved. Hell, even half the ERG moved. The only person who has not moved is May.
Except she did on the WA without the PD. And she did by seeking further assurances from the EU on it. Nice try.
May definitely should do as you say and pick something else. We know why she hasn't, because her party is split down the middle. But to blame her for parliament's own choice not to pick something is a step too far, it is infantilising them, and blaming the whip is absurd when so many have defied the whip constantly.
Nothing stopped MPs from all sides coming together on something tonight, no matter what May said. She has earned her condemnation many times over, tonight was on them though.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Total horsesh*t. Your party is in power and therefore has a responsibility to govern. It is not governing. It was clear at Christmas that the deal is no good and your party has wasted 3 f*cking months and for what?
The government will go down in history, not the opposition.
Our voters want no deal by a significant majority. I don't agree with the position, but the Venn diagram between the 40-45% of no deal supporters and the 35-40% that we get in the polls is almost concentric. It's Labour voters that want to avoid no deal and it's the Labour party that kepos voting down the deal on offer.
I would assume the ERG are on top of the world tonight as the legislation to stop no deal and approve our participation in the EU elections will not receive royal assent by a week on friday
TM attending the EU brexit crisis meeting on the 10th April will have the EU in a spin and the Irish Border will become the EU and Varadkar's worst nightmare, as they either put up a border or agree to no borders as predicted by the ERG and DUP
I would expect some form of transistion to no deal
It is more than possible, but equally HMG could have fallen in the meantime
She just offered the WA with no strings attached. How is that not movement?!
Not only that but the EU has made it clear that whatever final deal we do want, we still need to pass the bloody WA first. It is nuts that Parliament doesn't seem to grasp this.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.
Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.
They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.
He's moved towards her position? Really?
Corbyn will offer anything and everything, except for anything that would be accepted or would in any way prevent No Deal. He is Leave's most doughty defender.
I know it's their raison d'etre, and there is some righteous anger that Scotland very much does not want Brexit, but is 'disrespected' the right word? Their votes were not disrespected, they were defeated, those are not the same thing.
SNP's Westminster leader Ian Blackford said the Commons needed to find consensus and work together.
He said a "vast majority" of Scottish MPs voted to revoke Article 50, to back a second referendum and to stay in the single market and customs union.
He said it was "crystal clear that our votes in this house are disrespected".
He says the day is coming "where we'll determine our future and it will be as an independent country".
Shame Scots were too frit to take their future in their hands last time. No wonder it irks the SNP so much to have lost 2/2 referenda - the Scots are too frit to be independent but the UK isn't. Tough.
Hey Scottish Unionists, your fellow Brits think you're cowards, bottlers and frit. How's about them apples?
You mean you don't?
[I backed SINDY in 2014. I think Scotland will grow up on its own 2 feet and we'll be better siblings and neighbours than we are together]
Everybody blaming the House of Commons, wrongly in my view.
The country is very divided, and many on both sides are deeply entrenched in their opinion. Moreover the tectonic plates of opinion are no longer reflected by the political parties. Given Given the curve ball the electorate threw them, they could have made a better job , but it was never going to be easy. In retrospect something like this was almost inevitable. Gina Miller is possibly the one to blame. Prophets of doom should lighten up
We have these periodic convulsions when the system re-aligns to changes in the country - Fox-North Coalition and Pitt in the 1780's, Liberal split in the 1880's, Labour replacing the Liberals in the 20's. This is just another. They are messy but 10 years later we will be asking "What was all that stuff and nonsense about?"
FWIW I just can't see the logical steps that need to be gone through to meet the FTPA and so bring about a fresh election. Not least because of how it interacts with the timings for a Tory leadership election
Yes it is not easy, nor should it be. But it should not be beyond them to pick something. They've had multiple goes on everything.
I've a great deal of sympathy for Boles and I don't think you could doubt he's been trying to find compromise of sorts in reasonably good faith. Still, must be tough quitting to become an Independent only to find that the independent group all voted against you and you have to sit on your own.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
Yep. I am afraid labour are largely observing this tragedy.
I am perpetually amazed that Tory leadership can't see that appeasing the headbangers might keep some members onside, but must be shedding voters wholesale
Yeah the Tories should just abandon the 52% and just seek to become yet another party seeking the 48% like the other 6 parties doing so.
Equating the 52% with the ERG is, I would suggest, not a sustainable or logical position to take.
Put the various options into numbered boxes. Have MPs vote on which box to open. Noel Fucking Edmonds can open the chosen box, reveal the rejected option, and then Monsieur Barnier can call up to offer a deal based on the remaining options
Finally a sensible suggestion.
I was going to suggest putting the answer in the feeding bowl of the Queen's Corgis, then see which one gets passed first, as it were.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Total horsesh*t. Your party is in power and therefore has a responsibility to govern. It is not governing. It was clear at Christmas that the deal is no good and your party has wasted 3 f*cking months and for what?
The government will go down in history, not the opposition.
Our voters want no deal by a significant majority. I don't agree with the position, but the Venn diagram between the 40-45% of no deal supporters and the 35-40% that we get in the polls is almost concentric. It's Labour voters that want to avoid no deal and it's the Labour party that kepos voting down the deal on offer.
But almost every Labour MP will also vote to extend Article 50 this week, which would avoid No Deal.
And, should it become necessary, if the EU refuses an extension (which still seems incredibly unlikely), I'd expect a big majority of Labour MPs to vote to revoke Article 50, also thereby avoiding No Deal.
Whatever happens, it's going to be the Tories who get responsibility for No Deal, both in reality and in public opinion. Sorry.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
She changed it the third time and moved very significantly towards the Labour position. Yet the cowards in your party failed the country, again.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Total horsesh*t. Your party is in power and therefore has a responsibility to govern. It is not governing. It was clear at Christmas that the deal is no good and your party has wasted 3 f*cking months and for what?
The government will go down in history, not the opposition.
Our voters want no deal by a significant majority. I don't agree with the position, but the Venn diagram between the 40-45% of no deal supporters and the 35-40% that we get in the polls is almost concentric. It's Labour voters that want to avoid no deal and it's the Labour party that kepos voting down the deal on offer.
You’re doing what May is doing. Trying to blackmail the opposition with the threat of no-deal. It will not work! We will crash out, people will get hurt, become poorer, maybe even die, and it will be the arrogant Conservative Party that will get the blame. And rightly so.
I've a great deal of sympathy for Boles and I don't think you could doubt he's been trying to find compromise of sorts in reasonably good faith. Still, must be tough quitting to become an Independent only to find that the independent group all voted against you and you have to sit on your own.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Total horsesh*t. Your party is in power and therefore has a responsibility to govern. It is not governing. It was clear at Christmas that the deal is no good and your party has wasted 3 f*cking months and for what?
The government will go down in history, not the opposition.
Our voters want no deal by a significant majority. I don't agree with the position, but the Venn diagram between the 40-45% of no deal supporters and the 35-40% that we get in the polls is almost concentric. It's Labour voters that want to avoid no deal and it's the Labour party that kepos voting down the deal on offer.
Yep, it’s all about the Conservative Party, not the country.
Well there's a take I would not expect, even as it being as much a 'victory' as she could get, in that she can justifiably claim nothing is agreed and so, all together now, nothing has changed.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
There's no point changing it to something that 90% of your MP's hate.
Yes, she could decide to be Ramsay Macdonald, and lead 30 MP's into Coalition with her opponents but that's asking a lot.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Total horsesh*t. Your party is in power and therefore has a responsibility to govern. It is not governing. It was clear at Christmas that the deal is no good and your party has wasted 3 f*cking months and for what?
The government will go down in history, not the opposition.
Our voters want no deal by a significant majority. I don't agree with the position, but the Venn diagram between the 40-45% of no deal supporters and the 35-40% that we get in the polls is almost concentric. It's Labour voters that want to avoid no deal and it's the Labour party that kepos voting down the deal on offer.
Yep, it’s all about the Conservative Party, not the country.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
May stripped out the entire political declaration !!! You know the bit Corbyn had an issue with, then he opposed it. Oh of course he opposed it... on the basis it was a .............. "blindfold Brexit". Anything we do requires the WA to be passed, and you accuse May of not compromising ?!
May's Deal brought back. 3-line Whip. Those who vote against will not be eligible as candidates in the GE that will follow if May's Shit Deal doesn't pass.
Then a GE, where the Conservative Party candidates are required to unite behind passing May's Deal.
Labour? Who knows what they will go with.... but no ifs, no buts, this will be a Brexit election.
So was the last one - at least so far as the Tories were concerned and look how that turned out. Electorate tend to decide for themselves what the issues are. I just hope someone has found May a different strap line to “Strong and Stable”
I can’t see the 3 line whip achieving much. Feelings are too high. It will just swell the ranks of the TIGgers assuming Bercow even lets the vote go ahead.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.
Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.
They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.
He's moved towards her position? Really?
Corbyn will offer anything and everything, except for anything that would be accepted or would in any way prevent No Deal. He is Leave's most doughty defender.
I am perpetually amazed that Tory leadership can't see that appeasing the headbangers might keep some members onside, but must be shedding voters wholesale
Yeah the Tories should just abandon the 52% and just seek to become yet another party seeking the 48% like the other 6 parties doing so.
Equating the 52% with the ERG is, I would suggest, not a sustainable or logical position to take.
At least 4/5 of Leave voters back No Deal, certainly over Remain, soft Brexit is a compromise the median voter might accept without much enthusiasm but it is clear most Leavers now want No Deal and would be happy with it. You carried most of those voters with you to get your 52%, you must also accept the consequences of your narrow 'win'!
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
May certainly holds a degree of (ir)responsibility by trying to undermine the process, rather than attempting to find a consensus and a way forward.
She needs to adopt a compromise position for the govt. it’s quite straightforward really.
But it's ok for others not to compromise, got it.
Corbyn has moved. Hell, even half the ERG moved. The only person who has not moved is May.
Except she did on the WA without the PD. And she did by seeking further assurances from the EU on it. Nice try.
May definitely should do as you say and pick something else. We know why she hasn't, because her party is split down the middle. But to blame her for parliament's own choice not to pick something is a step too far, it is infantilising them, and blaming the whip is absurd when so many have defied the whip constantly.
Nothing stopped MPs from all sides coming together on something tonight, no matter what May said. She has earned her condemnation many times over, tonight was on them though.
Dropping he PD was not change. That was simply breaking the original plan in two parts. It gave no ground to anyone outside the ERG, who sniffed a route to a deregulated future.
I stand by my point entirely. Tonight was a feint, denying just enough oxygen to an alternative. May remains responsible. She needs to construct and whip a genuine cross party compromise, even if that risks losing Baker, Francois and others on her right.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
She changed it the third time and moved very significantly towards the Labour position. Yet the cowards in your party failed the country, again.
So the ERG are even closer now to winning, aren’t they? No Deal inches closer. Barely a week to go.
And being closer to winning presumably puts more of them in the Drax position of being less willing to give the WA another shot.
Parliament really has disappointed when it has 'taken control'. First they didn't pass Letwin the first time even though May and co had messed everything up, then both votes after Letwin nothing passes! Multi stage, sure, but don't tell me they expected that.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.
Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.
They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.
He's moved towards her position? Really?
Corbyn will offer anything and everything, except for anything that would be accepted or would in any way prevent No Deal. He is Leave's most doughty defender.
LMAO at people still pushing this line.
If Corbyn 'wanted' No Deal, it literally would've happened by now. Without him putting Labour in support of the Caroline Spelman motion blocking No Deal, it wouldn't have passed, and we would've automatically left the EU last Friday...
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing. It’s carefully constructed.
No, it's totally unreasonable to expect a government to whip against its own policy. Allowing a free vote is as much as one can reasonably expect.
When the policy has been defeated three times you friggin’ change it.
She changed it the third time and moved very significantly towards the Labour position. Yet the cowards in your party failed the country, again.
She dropped the part of the package Labour opposed and put forward the part they back alone and still they three-line-whip against that which they supposedly support.
Pathetic. At least the ERG are honest about being willing to back no deal - everyone who backed the referendum, or backed invoking Article 50 and is now supposedly afraid of no deal and supposedly against revocation yet refuses to back the only deal is a hypocrite.
The only honest brokers in the house are dishonest May and her backers, the ERG/Hoey, the SNP and Lib Dems. And Ken Clarke.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
May certainly holds a degree of (ir)responsibility by trying to undermine the process, rather than attempting to find a consensus and a way forward.
She needs to adopt a compromise position for the govt. it’s quite straightforward really.
But it's ok for others not to compromise, got it.
Corbyn has moved. Hell, even half the ERG moved. The only person who has not moved is May.
Except she did on the WA without the PD. And she did by seeking further assurances from the EU on it. Nice try.
May definitely should do as you say and pick something else. We know why she hasn't, because her party is split down the middle. But to blame her for parliament's own choice not to pick something is a step too far, it is infantilising them, and blaming the whip is absurd when so many have defied the whip constantly.
Nothing stopped MPs from all sides coming together on something tonight, no matter what May said. She has earned her condemnation many times over, tonight was on them though.
Dropping he PD was not change. That was simply breaking the original plan in two parts. It gave no ground to anyone outside the ERG.
I stand by my point entirely. Tonight was a feint, denying just enough oxygen to an alternative. May remains responsible. She needs to construct and whip a genuine cross party compromise, even if that risks losing Baker, Francois and others on her right.
You take away the agency and responsibility of MPs for their own votes, I don't see how that is fair.
Everybody blaming the House of Commons, wrongly in my view.
The country is very divided, and many on both sides are deeply entrenched in their opinion. Moreover the tectonic plates of opinion are no longer reflected by the political parties. Given Given the curve ball the electorate threw them, they could have made a better job , but it was never going to be easy. In retrospect something like this was almost inevitable.
This is why I think that something like the indicative votes should have been held re negotiating red lines before the Article 50 process kicked off, but asking the public rather than the MPs. If we know the red lines that voters backed were X, Y and Z, then the government has the parameters to negotiate a deal - the EC had a nice "waterfall" style diagram of how different red lines would have led to different viable end-states. The referendum itself was a cypher (a curveball is a good analogy, I think) - people took it to mean whatever they wanted it to mean, and truth be told it didn't represent a majority of voters coalescing around a single vision.
I am perpetually amazed that Tory leadership can't see that appeasing the headbangers might keep some members onside, but must be shedding voters wholesale
Yeah the Tories should just abandon the 52% and just seek to become yet another party seeking the 48% like the other 6 parties doing so.
Equating the 52% with the ERG is, I would suggest, not a sustainable or logical position to take.
Agreed. Just like equating current conservative support with that for no deal - I would wager at least half the Tory support is predominantly motivated by being anti Corbyn....
Boles does need to reflect on his own performance in all this.
He isn't a charismatic leader that people want to follow. Sincerity only takes you so far.
Flouncing like that this evening is certainly theatrical - but it does his cause more harm than good. He isn't going to persuade more people to back his position now.
I was actually warming to CM2 as an option the other night - but now it is dead in the water because of his rather petulant behaviour.
Does this mean I need to head back to CostCo for a years supply of bog roll?
You haven't already stocked up? Ooh boy, you will be shit out of luck I am afraid.
My mother, who is veteran stockpiler from the 1970s, when we last tried to burn our own country to the ground, informs me that the main toilet paper manufacturers have an enormous stockpile ready.
Brie is another matter.
Might double up the Sainsbo's delivery again this week. Don't want to run low on pineapple.
Very wise.
I have been astonished that the panic buying has not started.
Clearly, that's my age, and vast majority under 55 think the old just in time supply system is the god given right of any free born englishman who has a wifi connection.
It'll start next Thursday when it's clear from the EU Summit that they are washing their hands of us
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Exactly, it's absolutely hilarious as a criticism. Previously @Jonathan has been blaming her for not listening and trying to force her view of things on MPs. Now he's criticising her for letting MPs say what they want rather than telling them what to do.
She ain’t listening. It’s just more brinkmanship in pursuit of her lousy deal. She could end this at any time, by whipping either of today’s top options. She doesn’t because she would lose her right wing.
Err, you don't seem to have quite taken into account the fact that Corbyn could have ended this at any time (since November) by whipping his MPs to back the deal which is actually on the table, or even giving them a free vote. After all the deal on the table is almost exactly consistent with Labour's stated policy. So I'd be interested in your justification for blaming her and not him for the impasse.
They both need to find a position they can agree. May takes the blame because she has not moved a millimetre. Corbyn has moved.
He's moved towards her position? Really?
Corbyn will offer anything and everything, except for anything that would be accepted or would in any way prevent No Deal. He is Leave's most doughty defender.
Jezza's order of priority:
1) Tories are blamed.
2) Tories are blamed.
3) etc etc...
I remember one recent poll had Corbyn being blamed more for No Deal than May and rightly so, he has done nothing but play party politics the whole time.
The blame for a No Deal lies equally with Corbyn, the ERG and diehard Remainers. Even the argument May should have gone for soft Brexit all along fails tonight given even after a second set of indicative votes her Deal last week got more than all of them
So the ERG are even closer now to winning, aren’t they? No Deal inches closer. Barely a week to go.
And being closer to winning presumably puts more of them in the Drax position of being less willing to give the WA another shot.
Parliament really has disappointed when it has 'taken control'. First they didn't pass Letwin the first time even though May and co had messed everything up, then both votes after Letwin nothing passes! Multi stage, sure, but don't tell me they expected that.
Aren't the DUP going to notice, at some point, that No Deal/WTO crapfest involves a harder border than anything they tell their kids at bedtime as a horror story?
So the ERG are even closer now to winning, aren’t they? No Deal inches closer. Barely a week to go.
Mrs May's WA will go down more heavily now than it did last week imho. ERG ers will want to be in at the kill. Suspect we will see more recanters like Richard Drax voting against WA this time. No Deal is so close they can smell it.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
May certainly holds a degree of (ir)responsibility by trying to undermine the process, rather than attempting to find a consensus and a way forward.
She needs to adopt a compromise position for the govt. it’s quite straightforward really.
But it's ok for others not to compromise, got it.
Corbyn has moved. Hell, even half the ERG moved. The only person who has not moved is May.
Except she did on the WA without the PD. And she did by seeking further assurances from the EU on it. Nice try.
May definitely should do as you say and pick something else. We know why she hasn't, because her party is split down the middle. But to blame her for parliament's own choice not to pick something is a step too far, it is infantilising them, and blaming the whip is absurd when so many have defied the whip constantly.
Nothing stopped MPs from all sides coming together on something tonight, no matter what May said. She has earned her condemnation many times over, tonight was on them though.
Dropping he PD was not change. That was simply breaking the original plan in two parts. It gave no ground to anyone outside the ERG.
I stand by my point entirely. Tonight was a feint, denying just enough oxygen to an alternative. May remains responsible. She needs to construct and whip a genuine cross party compromise, even if that risks losing Baker, Francois and others on her right.
You take away the agency and responsibility of MPs for their own votes, I don't see how that is fair.
The backbench Tory sheep need a shepherd. Some of them have never had to think for themselves.
In a world where Jeremy Corbyn can whip Tory MP amendments, May needs to budge.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.
Indeed. It's a completely stupid argument from Labour supporters. Asking the government to whip in favour of positions it opposes whilst similarly offering nothing close to that on the government's position.
Labour MPs are signing the no deal paperwork along with the ERG, they will get the blame. Especially now that Parliament has rejected all other options.
Labour will get next to no blame. They should do, but the Tories will own No Deal.
We won't, our party has tried to ram it through parliament three times, our PM offered her resignation to get it done. We've done our part. Labour will take the hit, especially given that it's their voters that oppose no deal the most and they have consistently voted against the deal on offer which avoids no deal.
Yep, Labour is likely to pick up most of the votes of those who oppose No Deal once an election comes. My guess is there’ll be more of them than support No Deal.
So the ERG are even closer now to winning, aren’t they? No Deal inches closer. Barely a week to go.
And being closer to winning presumably puts more of them in the Drax position of being less willing to give the WA another shot.
Parliament really has disappointed when it has 'taken control'. First they didn't pass Letwin the first time even though May and co had messed everything up, then both votes after Letwin nothing passes! Multi stage, sure, but don't tell me they expected that.
Aren't the DUP going to notice, at some point, that No Deal/WTO crapfest involves a harder border than anything they tell their kids at bedtime as a horror story?
DUP are not bothered by a border on land, they don't want one at sea.
Boles does need to reflect on his own performance in all this.
He isn't a charismatic leader that people want to follow. Sincerity only takes you so far.
Flouncing like that this evening is certainly theatrical - but it does his cause more harm than good. He isn't going to persuade more people to back his position now.
I was actually warming to CM2 as an option the other night - but now it is dead in the water because of his rather petulant behaviour.
Well good luck with him getting any tories online for it now.
May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
May certainly holds a degree of (ir)responsibility by trying to undermine the process, rather than attempting to find a consensus and a way forward.
She needs to adopt a compromise position for the govt. it’s quite straightforward really.
But it's ok for others not to compromise, got it.
Corbyn has moved. Hell, even half the ERG moved. The only person who has not moved is May.
Except she did on the WA without the PD. And she did by seeking further assurances from the EU on it. Nice try.
May definitely should do as you say and pick something else. We know why she hasn't, because her party is split down the middle. But to blame her for parliament's own choice not to pick something is a step too far, it is infantilising them, and blaming the whip is absurd when so many have defied the whip constantly.
Nothing stopped MPs from all sides coming together on something tonight, no matter what May said. She has earned her condemnation many times over, tonight was on them though.
Dropping he PD was not change. That was simply breaking the original plan in two parts. It gave no ground to anyone outside the ERG.
I stand by my point entirely. Tonight was a feint, denying just enough oxygen to an alternative. May remains responsible. She needs to construct and whip a genuine cross party compromise, even if that risks losing Baker, Francois and others on her right.
You take away the agency and responsibility of MPs for their own votes, I don't see how that is fair.
The backbench Tory sheep need a shepherd. Some of them have never had to think for themselves.
In a world where Jeremy Corbyn can whip Tory MP amendments, May needs to budge.
Not saying she shouldn't. But they're all still responsible for themselves no matter how sheep like.
No. Fuck off Matt. You've been defeated massively three times .it's dead. As is your government
I don't think anybody should be objecting to repeated votes on things at this point since * Something needs to pass * Everything has failed at least once * Things are getting closer on subsequent votes
Everybody blaming the House of Commons, wrongly in my view
Rightly in my view. They are grown adults paid large sums of money. They are behaving like children and are not deserving of the respect usually extended them.
Comments
Put the various options into numbered boxes. Have MPs vote on which box to open. Noel Fucking Edmonds can open the chosen box, reveal the rejected option, and then Monsieur Barnier can call up to offer a deal based on the remaining options
For the Marxists it is all about getting power - nothing else matters
I have been astonished that the panic buying has not started.
Clearly, that's my age, and vast majority under 55 think the old just in time supply system is the god given right of any free born englishman who has a wifi connection.
May definitely should do as you say and pick something else. We know why she hasn't, because her party is split down the middle. But to blame her for parliament's own choice not to pick something is a step too far, it is infantilising them, and blaming the whip is absurd when so many have defied the whip constantly.
Nothing stopped MPs from all sides coming together on something tonight, no matter what May said. She has earned her condemnation many times over, tonight was on them though.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1112834687846834177
Answers on a postcard.
TM attending the EU brexit crisis meeting on the 10th April will have the EU in a spin and the Irish Border will become the EU and Varadkar's worst nightmare, as they either put up a border or agree to no borders as predicted by the ERG and DUP
I would expect some form of transistion to no deal
It is more than possible, but equally HMG could have fallen in the meantime
[I backed SINDY in 2014. I think Scotland will grow up on its own 2 feet and we'll be better siblings and neighbours than we are together]
Wikipedia says Con seat total is 312.
I make it 318 elected. Lose 1 for Bercow, 3 to the Tiggers and 1 for Nick Boles this evening. Who is the other one?
I was going to suggest putting the answer in the feeding bowl of the Queen's Corgis, then see which one gets passed first, as it were.
And, should it become necessary, if the EU refuses an extension (which still seems incredibly unlikely), I'd expect a big majority of Labour MPs to vote to revoke Article 50, also thereby avoiding No Deal.
Whatever happens, it's going to be the Tories who get responsibility for No Deal, both in reality and in public opinion. Sorry.
But not the WA. That's an unholy spawn of satan Tory brexit, apparently.
Yes, she could decide to be Ramsay Macdonald, and lead 30 MP's into Coalition with her opponents but that's asking a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lu1xyYx3Eo
Anything we do requires the WA to be passed, and you accuse May of not compromising ?!
I can’t see the 3 line whip achieving much. Feelings are too high. It will just swell the ranks of the TIGgers assuming Bercow even lets the vote go ahead.
1) Tories are blamed.
2) Tories are blamed.
3) etc etc...
1. Pass the WA only. Leave. New Tory leader. General Election.
2. Extension. New Tory leader. General Election.
In (1) the election decides the Future Relationship.
In (2) the election decides whether we have another Referendum.
I stand by my point entirely. Tonight was a feint, denying just enough oxygen to an alternative. May remains responsible. She needs to construct and whip a genuine cross party compromise, even if that risks losing Baker, Francois and others on her right.
Parliament really has disappointed when it has 'taken control'. First they didn't pass Letwin the first time even though May and co had messed everything up, then both votes after Letwin nothing passes! Multi stage, sure, but don't tell me they expected that.
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1112829720880611335
If Corbyn 'wanted' No Deal, it literally would've happened by now. Without him putting Labour in support of the Caroline Spelman motion blocking No Deal, it wouldn't have passed, and we would've automatically left the EU last Friday...
Pathetic. At least the ERG are honest about being willing to back no deal - everyone who backed the referendum, or backed invoking Article 50 and is now supposedly afraid of no deal and supposedly against revocation yet refuses to back the only deal is a hypocrite.
The only honest brokers in the house are dishonest May and her backers, the ERG/Hoey, the SNP and Lib Dems. And Ken Clarke.
He isn't a charismatic leader that people want to follow. Sincerity only takes you so far.
Flouncing like that this evening is certainly theatrical - but it does his cause more harm than good. He isn't going to persuade more people to back his position now.
I was actually warming to CM2 as an option the other night - but now it is dead in the water because of his rather petulant behaviour.
The blame for a No Deal lies equally with Corbyn, the ERG and diehard Remainers. Even the argument May should have gone for soft Brexit all along fails tonight given even after a second set of indicative votes her Deal last week got more than all of them
In a world where Jeremy Corbyn can whip Tory MP amendments, May needs to budge.
Good quote from Huw Merriman on Newsnight.
So the Boles option is nigh on dead I reckon.
https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1112752349154627584
The winner is going to be the one that goes the 12 rounds, Rocky style, dead on its feet.
* Something needs to pass
* Everything has failed at least once
* Things are getting closer on subsequent votes