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No option passes in Commons votes
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What a clusterfuck this Parliament is0
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We're all fucked0
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Fourth just like the UK (as that’s what will be left of it once No Deal has played out)0
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The Parliament of Clowns0
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Boles: SNP 32, Lab 185, Con 33, Ind 5, Plaid 4, Lib Dem 2
Clarke: Lab 230, Con 37, Ind 5, Lib Dem 1
Kyle-Wilson SNP 31, Lab 203, Con 15, Ind 15, Green 1, Plaid 4
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I like Nate but probably worth remembering this for November 2020....Theuniondivvie said:0 -
I'm feeling a lot like Nick Boles at the moment.0
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I reject your offer of quiche, I demand pineapple and cheddar cheese...0
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Sky news reporting more Tory MPs will follow Boles and likely to back a VONC in the government if no option backed to avoid No Deal by Friday, so general election increasingly likely once they are added to the 3 former Tory MPs already in TIG now who will also back a VONC0
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It's a GE, as I have said before.
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Time for the EU to tell us just to piss off. No more extensions. We've got 48 hours to pass May's Shit Deal - or else Shit Happens.....0
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May must go now.0
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Bye!TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling a lot like Nick Boles at the moment.
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I admire Nick Boles for trying, and for putting what he sees as the country's interest above party-political considerations.
But - it was a unicorn, wasn't it?
1) The new version [of Common Market 2.0] says the customs arrangement that the government should negotiate with the EU should include “alignment with the union customs code and an agreement on commercial policy, and which includes a UK say on future EU trade deals”. Giving the UK a say on future EU trade deals (an optimistic request, if it is going to involve anything more than token consultation), is a specific Labour demand.
2) The new version says the new agreement with the EU must include “a legally binding joint instrument” saying the new arrangements would cause the backstop to be superseded.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/apr/01/brexit-latest-live-news-indicative-votes--brexiters-dismiss-customs-union-plan-as-unacceptable-as-mps-prepare-for-more-indicative-votes-live-new0 -
Are you quoting Ken Clarke?oxfordsimon said:What a clusterfuck this Parliament is
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It's better than a Parliament which simply rubber stamps everything, which is more common around the world.MarqueeMark said:The Parliament of Clowns
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TIG isn't ready to run a GE campaign - they will fight for more timeHYUFD said:Sky news reporting more Tory MPs will follow Boles and likely to back a VONC in the government if no option backed to avoid No Deal by Friday, so general election increasingly likely once they are added to the 3 former Tory MPs already in TIG now who will also back a VONC
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Shock horror, Bad Al thinks we need another referendum...0
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I'm waiting to use my vote in the Tory leadership contest then I will consider my options.RoyalBlue said:
If I wanted to join a party that was about to trash the economy I would have joined the Labour party.0 -
On none political issues is it possible that Spurs could finish sixth in a 'three horse race' ?0
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Everyone has pretty lame arguments at this point, given any options brought back have been rejected before. The idea that any rejected options should therefore not be treated as options is therefore, unfortunately, not really fair. The government's strategy to abstain has preserved its argument about relatively more popular (just), but they can hardly deny the others got almost as many and suffered due to abstentions, but equally it would be absurd to say it is not fair for the government to get another crack at its deal when it has received the most votes, even though it was rejected by more.
Boles seems a thoughtful and decent chap, but I don't see that his reasoning holds up - The Commons has not done what he wanted, so he's off? He was only compromising in the sense of staying with them if they did what he wanted? With him gone does that mean the Tories have lost even their working majority even should the DUP back them on most things?
More reason people will want a GE, alas.
It's not a firm rule, even though it is not the common practice.Philip_Thompson said:Whatever happened to applause not happening in the Commons?
Without knowing which way the abstentions would go it is not as useful as it could be - May's deal is technically the most popular but not the most unpopular, and while it seems doubtful it is possible all these options could still fail even if you removed abstention as an option.anothernick said:2nd ref only 12 votes adrift. And 3 softest options all came closer than May's deal.
Not really Letwin's fault, but I don't think these two days of MPs taking control have worked out as well as they could have.
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How can she parliament just rejected it twice!Gardenwalker said:That’s it, then. General Election.
All other options look exhausted, unless May wants to go for a conf referendum on her Deal.0 -
Any comment from Macron yet?0
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FPT
Yep.MarqueeMark said:Yet again, the Legislature shows how shit it is at being the Executive.
Heart of stone.....
Now just pass the May Shit Deal - and stop being self-important wankers.
They need to be given one final chance to pass May's deal or the house will be prorogued until 15th April and No Deal will just take its course.
Enough of this bullshit!0 -
@nickeardleybbc
24 Labour MPs voted again a confirmatory referendum.0 -
Once again, the Customs Union and Single Market motions would've passed if the Tiggers and Lib Dems had voted in favour of them.
They're deliberately trying to sabotage any prospect of a softer Brexit, in the hope that it will leave the second referendum as the only non-NoDeal option on the table. A strategy which, obviously, has a high risk of backfiring.0 -
There is an element of truth in that, but at some point they do have to stamp something.AndyJS said:
It's better than a Parliament which simply rubber stamps everything, which is more common around the world.MarqueeMark said:The Parliament of Clowns
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Very possible!another_richard said:On none political issues is it possible that Spurs could finish sixth in a 'three horse race' ?
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Out of curiosity would you prefer to be a Conservative activist if the party deselected Baker, Francois, Jenkin, Chope, Mogg etc ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm waiting to use my vote in the Tory leadership contest then I will consider my options.RoyalBlue said:
If I wanted to join a party that was about to trash the economy I would have joined the Labour party.0 -
They have put their collective foot down with a very firm hand. And managed to miss the floorglw said:
There is an element of truth in that, but at some point they do have to stamp something.AndyJS said:
It's better than a Parliament which simply rubber stamps everything, which is more common around the world.MarqueeMark said:The Parliament of Clowns
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Non-political? That's a reference Farage isn't it?another_richard said:On none political issues is it possible that Spurs could finish sixth in a 'three horse race' ?
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May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.0
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Origin party of next MP to join breakaway - Conservative 2.3 at Smarkets, for anyone who thinks that's where Boles is heading.0
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Francois on R4 going all Pressdram v Arkelljust now: my fraternal message to Hammond [I assume he means Philip, not Richard] is 'up yours'.0
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Soubry has confirmed before she will VONC the government rather than allow No Deal and campaign for EUref2 in that campaignoxfordsimon said:
TIG isn't ready to run a GE campaign - they will fight for more timeHYUFD said:Sky news reporting more Tory MPs will follow Boles and likely to back a VONC in the government if no option backed to avoid No Deal by Friday, so general election increasingly likely once they are added to the 3 former Tory MPs already in TIG now who will also back a VONC
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Do we have a list of which MPs changed their vote since last week ?0
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Yup.another_richard said:
Out of curiosity would you prefer to be a Conservative activist if the party deselected Baker, Francois, Jenkin, Chope, Mogg etc ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm waiting to use my vote in the Tory leadership contest then I will consider my options.RoyalBlue said:
If I wanted to join a party that was about to trash the economy I would have joined the Labour party.0 -
Well it has just backfired.Danny565 said:Once again, the Customs Union and Single Market motions would've passed if the Tiggers and Lib Dems had voted in favour of them.
They're deliberately trying to sabotage any prospect of a softer Brexit, in the hope that it will leave the second referendum as the only non-NoDeal option on the table. A strategy which, obviously, has a high risk of backfiring.0 -
Why? Its hardly her fault that the House Of Fools has made a complete and utter fool of itself (and the country) on April Fools Day.Jonathan said:May must go now.
She's given them a deal (it may be shit but its a deal none the less) and they thought they could do better.
How is that May's fault?0 -
Looks like somebody clearly knew the results and moved the betting markets.0
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I know it's their raison d'etre, and there is some righteous anger that Scotland very much does not want Brexit, but is 'disrespected' the right word? Their votes were not disrespected, they were defeated, those are not the same thing.
SNP's Westminster leader Ian Blackford said the Commons needed to find consensus and work together.
He said a "vast majority" of Scottish MPs voted to revoke Article 50, to back a second referendum and to stay in the single market and customs union.
He said it was "crystal clear that our votes in this house are disrespected".
He says the day is coming "where we'll determine our future and it will be as an independent country".0 -
What sulking and stroppy because you didn't get your way?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling a lot like Nick Boles at the moment.
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The govt could support compromise and whip accordingly. At the moment through abstentions and free votes she has absented herself from the debate, once again using brinkmanship for her deal.kle4 said:
Er, while that is true, what about tonight has made that more true? For once, and despite the stupidity of government abstentions, it really is not her fault parliament still hasn't made up its mind.Jonathan said:May must go now.
If she picked a direction, this wouldn’t happen. She might lose the ERG, Fox and Leadsom but there is a way out.0 -
This is essentially because MPs are still voting on what they don't want, rather than being forced to choose which of the small number of realistic options they do want (or at least dislike least).Danny565 said:Once again, the Customs Union and Single Market motions would've passed if the Tiggers and Lib Dems had voted in favour of them.
They're deliberately trying to sabotage any prospect of a softer Brexit, in the hope that it will leave the second referendum as the only non-NoDeal option on the table. A strategy which, obviously, has a high risk of backfiring.
Still, look on the bright side. No one, anywhere, in any jurisdiction, is going to entrust a negotiation to a parliament ever again.0 -
Which of the indicatives do you think would have passed if the Cabinet had voted tonight? My guess is all would have been defeated more heavily.Jonathan said:May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
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Kevin BarronArtist said:@nickeardleybbc
24 Labour MPs voted again a confirmatory referendum.
Ronnie Campbell
Sarah Champion
Rosie Cooper
Jon Cruddas
Caroline Flint
Yvonne Fovargue
Mary Glindon
Stephen Hepburn
Mike Hill
Kaye Hoey
Dan Jarvis
Kevan Jones
Helen Jones
Emma Lewell Buck
John Mann
Grahame Morris
Melanie Onn
Stephanie Peacock
Ruth Smeeth
Laura Smith
Gareth Snell
Graham Stringer
Derek Twigg0 -
Time for a Military Coup?0
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And so we see phase 3
Cable: Combine referendum with customs union
Lib Dem leader Sir Vince Cable asks whether it would be possible to combine a second referendum and a customs union, pointing out that they were the options that got the most votes.0 -
If there's a GE we need a snap leadership contest first. May can't lead the Tories into a GE.rottenborough said:It's a GE, as I have said before.
Snap contest, one of the two hundred MPs willing to back a Managed No Deal becomes PM, anyone not willing to back that resigns whip then a General Election can sort this out.0 -
Very surprised the SNP didn't back a Customs Union.Pulpstar said:Boles: SNP 32, Lab 185, Con 33, Ind 5, Plaid 4, Lib Dem 2
Clarke: Lab 230, Con 37, Ind 5, Lib Dem 1
Kyle-Wilson SNP 31, Lab 203, Con 15, Ind 15, Green 1, Plaid 40 -
Amazing to watch our entire political system blowing up. It is incredibly hard to see how it get puts back together again.0
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Campbell consistent in thinking everything points to where he wants it to be... funny with that.0
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We slate May and Corbyn, and their parties, but the Lib Dems complete failure to capitalise on Brexit surely makes them the most inept and poorly lead party in Parliament.MaxPB said:
Well it has just backfired.Danny565 said:Once again, the Customs Union and Single Market motions would've passed if the Tiggers and Lib Dems had voted in favour of them.
They're deliberately trying to sabotage any prospect of a softer Brexit, in the hope that it will leave the second referendum as the only non-NoDeal option on the table. A strategy which, obviously, has a high risk of backfiring.0 -
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Nonsense. It is entirely correct that the executive abstains to allow parliament to consider. And free vote is thd right approach for the rest, otherwise it's just party political ballsJonathan said:May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
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Presumably the extremely delayed annoucement was so they could keep re-counting to try and make the numbers work for Remainers (and on the betting markets?FrancisUrquhart said:Looks like somebody clearly knew the results and moved the betting markets.
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She wants her Deal or oblivion.Jonathan said:May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
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Bercow?FrancisUrquhart said:Looks like somebody clearly knew the results and moved the betting markets.
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Yet another new party in the making...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Another referendum has been rejected three times now.MaxPB said:
How can she parliament just rejected it twice!Gardenwalker said:That’s it, then. General Election.
All other options look exhausted, unless May wants to go for a conf referendum on her Deal.0 -
If senior ministers had voted, and the government had whipped, all the proposals would have been more heavily defeated.Jonathan said:
The govt could support compromise and whip accordingly. At the moment through abstentions and free votes she has absented herself from the debate, once again using brinkmanship for her deal.kle4 said:
Er, while that is true, what about tonight has made that more true? For once, and despite the stupidity of government abstentions, it really is not her fault parliament still hasn't made up its mind.Jonathan said:May must go now.
If she picked a direction, this wouldn’t happen. She might lose the ERG, Fox and Leadsom but there is a way out.0 -
The SNP back SM and CU only, not CU aloneRichard_Tyndall said:
Very surprised the SNP didn't back a Customs Union.Pulpstar said:Boles: SNP 32, Lab 185, Con 33, Ind 5, Plaid 4, Lib Dem 2
Clarke: Lab 230, Con 37, Ind 5, Lib Dem 1
Kyle-Wilson SNP 31, Lab 203, Con 15, Ind 15, Green 1, Plaid 40 -
I dont think any of the Tiggers expect to be re-elected, so they can do as they please.HYUFD said:
Soubry has confirmed before she will VONC the government rather than allow No Deal and campaign for EUref2 in that campaignoxfordsimon said:
TIG isn't ready to run a GE campaign - they will fight for more timeHYUFD said:Sky news reporting more Tory MPs will follow Boles and likely to back a VONC in the government if no option backed to avoid No Deal by Friday, so general election increasingly likely once they are added to the 3 former Tory MPs already in TIG now who will also back a VONC
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Shame Scots were too frit to take their future in their hands last time. No wonder it irks the SNP so much to have lost 2/2 referenda - the Scots are too frit to be independent but the UK isn't. Tough.kle4 said:I know it's their raison d'etre, and there is some righteous anger that Scotland very much does not want Brexit, but is 'disrespected' the right word? Their votes were not disrespected, they were defeated, those are not the same thing.
SNP's Westminster leader Ian Blackford said the Commons needed to find consensus and work together.
He said a "vast majority" of Scottish MPs voted to revoke Article 50, to back a second referendum and to stay in the single market and customs union.
He said it was "crystal clear that our votes in this house are disrespected".
He says the day is coming "where we'll determine our future and it will be as an independent country".0 -
Laughter has been heard at the White Cliffs of Dover.Chris said:Any comment from Macron yet?
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It just can't cope with both party politics and Leave/Remain. Too many division lines.SouthamObserver said:Amazing to watch our entire political system blowing up. It is incredibly hard to see how it get puts back together again.
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If May whipped any of leading options today they would pass. That is the way forward.MaxPB said:
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.Jonathan said:May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
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who is staying to listen to this poor woman talking about Blaydon quarry landfill site?0
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Oh I'm sorry Mr Silver: what was your prediction of Lib seats in 2010? Over 100, wasn't it?Theuniondivvie said:0 -
Er... she can, and she probably will.Philip_Thompson said:
If there's a GE we need a snap leadership contest first. May can't lead the Tories into a GE.rottenborough said:It's a GE, as I have said before.
Snap contest, one of the two hundred MPs willing to back a Managed No Deal becomes PM, anyone not willing to back that resigns whip then a General Election can sort this out.0 -
This is going to be like 1931FrancisUrquhart said:
Yet another new party in the making...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
That's not causing it. As people continually defend Labour for not coming to the rescue of May's deal, why exactly is it her responsibility to come to the rescue of options she does not support?Jonathan said:May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
I think she should do so too, but then I think MPs are all being reckless in not backing a plan B, whatever it is. But if it is ok for opposition MPs to risk no deal rather than compromise, why is it not ok for government MPs? Parliament has collective responsibility here.
More relevantly, even without May they could easily have coalesced around something. She hasn't helped, she should not be our PM, but blaming her because MPs didn't make a decision just seems strange to me. It's not like anyone follows the whip on Brexit when they don't want to. Giving May crap for things she is not responsible for is weird when there's so much she is responsible for.0 -
If Corbyn whipped in favour of the PM's deal it would pass. That's the way forwards.Jonathan said:
If May whipped any of leading options today they would pass. That is the way forward.MaxPB said:
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.Jonathan said:May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
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Is it even possible to be "progressive" and "conservative" ?TheScreamingEagles said:
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It can’t cope with an utterly incompetent and impotent executive.solarflare said:
It just can't cope with both party politics and Leave/Remain. Too many division lines.SouthamObserver said:Amazing to watch our entire political system blowing up. It is incredibly hard to see how it get puts back together again.
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Looking forward to their debates with the Independent Regressive Conservatives.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yet another new party in the making...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Sounds like Strephon being returned to Parliament by the Fairy Queen as Liberal-Conservative...FrancisUrquhart said:
Yet another new party in the making...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Interesting split
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/11128293651030507550 -
Isn't Indepdent Progressive Conservative a bit of an oxymoron?0
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He isn't joining the Notorious TIG? Interesting.Philip_Thompson said:
This is going to be like 1931FrancisUrquhart said:
Yet another new party in the making...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
May can be criticised for many things, but allowing her junior ministers and MP's to vote as they wish is not one of them.MaxPB said:
Rubbish, she gave the party a free vote. More than can be said for Labour MPs when the PM's deal comes to the house. Labour are cowards who want no deal.Jonathan said:May, once again, caused this by forcing her cabinet to abstain and not using the whip to back a compromise.
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Also known as the ERG.solarflare said:
Looking forward to their debates with the Independent Regressive Conservatives.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yet another new party in the making...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
They are incapable of compromise! And so I will quit as I cannot compromise on what I want! (I kid really, he voted for the deal as I recall - but that's another vote on the deal lost for May, she's going backwards and needs upwards of 35 Lab MPs on top of the 5/6 from last time!)williamglenn said:0 -
And thus the Cameron project to modernise the Conservative Party finally dies. I don’t see how the “traditional” one in alliance with hard right English nationalism gets an electoral majority ever again.TheScreamingEagles said:
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Independent Progressive Conservative? Did he just grab three words out of a bag? Can I stand as Dog Mirror Liberal? Radiator Underpants Radical? Bleeding Sore Republican? Arse Biscuit Labour?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
The pro-EU fanatics and the ERG ultras are two cheeks of the same arse. They get their way or the world burns.0 -
Lab ex mining constituencies say "No" to a people's vote:
Rother Valley, Blyth Valley, Rotherham, West Lancashire, Dagenham, Don Valley, Makerfield, North Tyneside, Jarrow, Vauxhall, Barnsley Central, Warrington North, North Durham, South Shields, Bassetlaw, Easington, Barnsley East, Stoke North, Crewe, Stoke Central, Blackley, Halton.0 -
He can't if he is going to pursue SM and CUAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
He isn't joining the Notorious TIG? Interesting.Philip_Thompson said:
This is going to be like 1931FrancisUrquhart said:
Yet another new party in the making...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
When your constituency voted 70% Leave it's understandable.Artist said:@nickeardleybbc
24 Labour MPs voted again a confirmatory referendum.0 -
Then it has options to get rid of that executive. But it doesn’t seem to want to do that either.Jonathan said:
It can’t cope with an utterly incompetent and impotent executive.solarflare said:
It just can't cope with both party politics and Leave/Remain. Too many division lines.SouthamObserver said:Amazing to watch our entire political system blowing up. It is incredibly hard to see how it get puts back together again.
The government is utterly incompetent and impotent, true. Thing is, Parliament is behaving no better.0 -
They already exist, led by Jez.viewcode said:
Independent Progressive Conservative? Did he just grab three words out of a bag? Can I stand as Dog Mirror Liberal? Radiator Underpants Radical? Bleeding Sore Republican? Arse Biscuit Labour?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I don't see a way through this. May's Deal certainly isn't it. No Deal is the least popular option of them all. And the rest of the options a just being squabbled over.0
