politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » And so MPs move on to vote against leaving the EU with no deal
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » And so MPs move on to vote against leaving the EU with no deal
So after last night’s excitement today’s focus is a new Commons vote at 7pm on ruling out the UK leaving the EU with no deal. Then we’ll get tomorrow’s Article 50 extension move.
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We're back!0
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Phew. Good timing.0
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May should take up Jezza's offer on customs etc. I think that plays out better for the govt than a second vote0
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So when will Bercow dash May's hopes of MV3? If he thinks an extension and all that will follow is on the cards he will be desperate to prevent even the slim chance the Commons might change its mind.0
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Fifth like MV5.0
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Woo, main site back again!0
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Moral FIRST!0
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As Labour MPs, even ones who supposedly could accept the deal, refuse to do so because it is a Tory government, so too most Tories won't back May on taking up that offer even if she were inclined to do so, because it is a Labour offer.Pulpstar said:May should take up Jezza's offer on customs etc. I think that plays out better for the govt than a second vote
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This debate on no deal is doing a great job of tearing chunks out of the whole notion of Brexit.0
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At last, somebody has taken back control of the PB comments.0
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What time is the vote happening?0
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7TheJezziah said:What time is the vote happening?
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I am lazy. Which amendments are being voted on by tonight's shitshow?0
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If we have to leave, surely you are right. But how humiliating for May to leave office (for that is what would follow) trashing three years' work and having to sign up for Corbyn's plan.Pulpstar said:May should take up Jezza's offer on customs etc. I think that plays out better for the govt than a second vote
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Yippee - back on the site which feels right..0
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FPT
Cabinet job? She wants to be the one handing them out.nico67 said:I have much more respect for ardent Brexiters than Nicky Morgan . Clearly ditched any principles she had and is now fawning over the ERG in an effort to get a cabinet job after May goes.
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Thanks, thought it might be the same time as yesterday but wasn't sure.Gallowgate said:
7TheJezziah said:What time is the vote happening?
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Corbyn and May can whip a majority between themselves, surely lolkle4 said:
As Labour MPs, even ones who supposedly could accept the deal, refuse to do so because it is a Tory government, so too most Tories won't back May on taking up that offer even if she were inclined to do so, because it is a Labour offer.Pulpstar said:May should take up Jezza's offer on customs etc. I think that plays out better for the govt than a second vote
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These Malthouse Compromisers are deluded.0
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As it stands, no-one has yet said they'll move Spelman to a vote.0
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Caroline Lucas speaking - for some reason I am instinctively wary when people start moaning about needing a 'new social contract'. I have this suspicion it doesn't mean anything other than 'I should get the political things I want'.0
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Who would be eligible toEl_Capitano said:As it stands, no-one has yet said they'll move Spelman to a vote.
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Morgan is my MP. She only does what is best for Nicky Morgan.williamglenn said:FPT
Cabinet job? She wants to be the one handing them out.nico67 said:I have much more respect for ardent Brexiters than Nicky Morgan . Clearly ditched any principles she had and is now fawning over the ERG in an effort to get a cabinet job after May goes.
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There’s two amendments to be voted on first, so the vote on the substantive motion will be 7:25 or 7:30, with the result 7:40 - 7:45.TheJezziah said:
Thanks, thought it might be the same time as yesterday but wasn't sure.Gallowgate said:
7TheJezziah said:What time is the vote happening?
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I think that offer has expired now - partly because the one thing the Tiggers succeeded in was giving the "People's Vote" extremists within the PLP the upper-hand, but also because May's shown herself to be so untrustworthy that I doubt the Labour front-bench would (or should) trust May to stick to a commitment to negotiate a customs union.Pulpstar said:May should take up Jezza's offer on customs etc. I think that plays out better for the govt than a second vote
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Ironic that the EU are taking a leaf of the ERGs book and publically refusing to take No Deal off the table.0
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Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.0
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We now know that they all are...twistedfirestopper3 said:
Morgan is my MP. She only does what is best for Nicky Morgan.williamglenn said:FPT
Cabinet job? She wants to be the one handing them out.nico67 said:I have much more respect for ardent Brexiters than Nicky Morgan . Clearly ditched any principles she had and is now fawning over the ERG in an effort to get a cabinet job after May goes.
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The EU can't force us to revoke Article 50.Pro_Rata said:Ironic that the EU are taking a leaf of the ERGs book and publically refusing to take No Deal off the table.
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A group of MPs is planning to force indicative votes in parliament on a series of Brexit options, including a second referendum and a softer departure, as several cabinet ministers suggested it could be the only way to resolve the political impasse.
If MPs vote down the possibility of a no-deal Brexit on Wednesday night, they will vote on Thursday on whether to seek an extension to article 50. Efforts are under way to persuade Theresa May to announce plans then to hold debates on Brexit options the following week in order to determine a new path for parliament during a short extension.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/13/group-of-mps-plan-to-force-indicative-votes-on-brexit-options0 -
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
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Long Bailey, Gardiner and Corbyn are all still quite Labour brexit thoughDanny565 said:
I think that offer has expired now - partly because the one thing the Tiggers succeeded in was giving the "People's Vote" extremists within the PLP the upper-hand, but also because May's shown herself to be so untrustworthy that I doubt the Labour front-bench would (or should) trust May to stick to a commitment to negotiate a customs union.Pulpstar said:May should take up Jezza's offer on customs etc. I think that plays out better for the govt than a second vote
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As much as they'd like to!williamglenn said:
The EU can't force us to revoke Article 50.Pro_Rata said:Ironic that the EU are taking a leaf of the ERGs book and publically refusing to take No Deal off the table.
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I thought that was an afternoon ITV drama starring Suranne Jones and Sarah Parish. Together they juggle home lives and solving crime. Tonights episode: Malthouse is convinced the murderer is DS Brackman but Spelman is distracted by her daughter's decision to not go to Uni. Followed by Extreme Measures, with Trevor Eve, Friday at 9, BBC 1.kle4 said:
Malthouse and Spelman - Unicorn and Really really no deal I think they are termed.viewcode said:I am lazy. Which amendments are being voted on by tonight's shitshow?
(Thank you kindly, by the way...
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More in regards of extension. I know they can't pre empty the 27, and that public comment is in order, but it is still an ironywilliamglenn said:
The EU can't force us to revoke Article 50.Pro_Rata said:Ironic that the EU are taking a leaf of the ERGs book and publically refusing to take No Deal off the table.
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Indicative votes is the closest to a way forward in advance of an extension that we may have, but my gods does there need to debate? They mention all the various other options in the debates they've had for 6 months.IanB2 said:A group of MPs is planning to force indicative votes in parliament on a series of Brexit options, including a second referendum and a softer departure, as several cabinet ministers suggested it could be the only way to resolve the political impasse.
If MPs vote down the possibility of a no-deal Brexit on Wednesday night, they will vote on Thursday on whether to seek an extension to article 50. Efforts are under way to persuade Theresa May to announce plans then to hold debates on Brexit options the following week in order to determine a new path for parliament during a short extension.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/13/group-of-mps-plan-to-force-indicative-votes-on-brexit-options0 -
Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US0
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Any of the signatories, I believe.Pulpstar said:
Who would be eligible toEl_Capitano said:As it stands, no-one has yet said they'll move Spelman to a vote.
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Yeah, and also, by all accounts (well, mostly Stephen Bush's accounts), a lot of Corbyn's advisers were keen to get Brexit "boxed off" asap, so that politics could return to the issues they felt they could score more points on. So I think Corbyn's offer to work with May on a "Labour-friendly" Brexit was genuine. But it's much too late now, the window closed weeks if not months ago.Pulpstar said:
Long Bailey, Gardiner and Corbyn are all still quite Labour brexit thoughDanny565 said:
I think that offer has expired now - partly because the one thing the Tiggers succeeded in was giving the "People's Vote" extremists within the PLP the upper-hand, but also because May's shown herself to be so untrustworthy that I doubt the Labour front-bench would (or should) trust May to stick to a commitment to negotiate a customs union.Pulpstar said:May should take up Jezza's offer on customs etc. I think that plays out better for the govt than a second vote
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You might want to pitch that to a producer before someone steals it. It'll be the next Rizzoli and Islesviewcode said:
I thought that was an afternoon ITV drama starring Suranne Jones and Sarah Parish. Together they juggle home lives and solving crime. Tonights episode: Malthouse is convinced the murderer is DS Brackman but Spelman is distracted by her daughter's decision to not go to Uni. Followed by Extreme Measures, with Trevor Eve, Friday at 9, BBC 1.kle4 said:
Malthouse and Spelman - Unicorn and Really really no deal I think they are termed.viewcode said:I am lazy. Which amendments are being voted on by tonight's shitshow?
(Thank you kindly, by the way... )0 -
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.0 -
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...0 -
Tomorrow's debate - particularly over the length of extension we will be asking for - will be more critical than today's. Today's is just trashing the idea that Brexit had anything positive to offer our country.0
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I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time. They should surely at least want to revoke.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.
And the accepted terminology now is ERG Remainers. People who fight against Brexit that hard deserve the label.0 -
The right answer for the country is obviously revocation. The question is how to get there with democratic endorsement.kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.0 -
turns on BBC Parliament, John Baron speaking gives way to Andrew buffoon Bridgen.
turns off BBC Parliament0 -
They had run out of countries that they could fly them to.ydoethur said:
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...
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Good point, voting starts at 7 but 10-15 minutes each I guess and I wasn't sure the number of amendments were being voted on.Sandpit said:
There’s two amendments to be voted on first, so the vote on the substantive motion will be 7:25 or 7:30, with the result 7:40 - 7:45.TheJezziah said:
Thanks, thought it might be the same time as yesterday but wasn't sure.Gallowgate said:
7TheJezziah said:What time is the vote happening?
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kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time. They should surely at least want to revoke.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.
And the accepted terminology now is ERG Remainers. People who fight against Brexit that hard deserve the label.
The new terminology is a bit like the Sinn Fein/IRA tag that unionists in Northern Ireland use!0 -
But that is not the question. Democratic endorsement is politically necessary for many, but people have quit their parties over this, they talk in apocalyptic terms about what Brexit will do to the country. If it is that bad, then revocation without such democratic cover is the position they should admit they think we need. Face the consequences for saying they cannot risk the public allowing Brexit because it is just too bad for the country.IanB2 said:
The right answer for the country is obviously revocation. The question is how to get there with democratic endorsement.kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.
Yes they would not get that through the House. But that even most of those most damning about Brexit won't even try to do that just makes me think that implicitly they don't Brexit is as bad as they say.0 -
WTF is Trump doing announcing that? At least let the quango appear to do its job.ydoethur said:
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...0 -
Didn't stop them using it for internal flights.IanB2 said:
They had run out of countries that they could fly them to.ydoethur said:
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...
What I don't get is why they weren't grounded after the LionAir crash. It should have been obvious even to somebody as thick as a Boeing executive that something was out of place then. And if that had happened these people in Ethiopia wouldn't have died.0 -
You had me wondering whether mine was on delay, but Bridgen was merely an intervention.Scrapheap_as_was said:turns on BBC Parliament, John Baron speaking gives way to Andrew buffoon Bridgen.
turns off BBC Parliament
Pennycook (a boy trying to do a man's job) followed Baron.0 -
Once is misfortune, twice...ydoethur said:
Didn't stop them using it for internal flights.IanB2 said:
They had run out of countries that they could fly them to.ydoethur said:
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...
What I don't get is why they weren't grounded after the LionAir crash. It should have been obvious even to somebody as thick as a Boeing executive that something was out of place then. And if that had happened these people in Ethiopia wouldn't have died.0 -
Hugo Chavez used to do things like that too.tlg86 said:
WTF is Trump doing announcing that? At least let the quango appear to do its job.ydoethur said:
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...
And Corbyn would if he ever got into power.
I have a theory that it's probably something to do with penis length, or lack thereof.0 -
Voting to extend is all very well but haven't they heard the EU say that Britain has to provide a reasoned justification as to what the extension is going to be for.
Buggering about some more, I'm guessing, will not pass the EU's reasoned justification test.0 -
Yes, we are in need of political leadership and for someone to tell us some hard truths. Reasons why this isn't happening are already familiar to most PB'ers.kle4 said:
But that is not the question. Democratic endorsement is politically necessary for many, but people have quit their parties over this, they talk in apocalyptic terms about what Brexit will do to the country. If it is that bad, then revocation without such democratic cover is the position they should admit they think we need. Face the consequences for saying they cannot risk the public allowing Brexit because it is just too bad for the country.IanB2 said:
The right answer for the country is obviously revocation. The question is how to get there with democratic endorsement.kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.
Yes they would not get that through the House. But that even most of those most damning about Brexit won't even try to do that just makes me think that implicitly they don't Brexit is as bad as they say.0 -
An aircraft with a computer that actively tries to crash it (and succeeds) is not a misfortune, it's a fecking menace.IanB2 said:
Once is misfortune, twice...ydoethur said:
Didn't stop them using it for internal flights.IanB2 said:
They had run out of countries that they could fly them to.ydoethur said:
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...
What I don't get is why they weren't grounded after the LionAir crash. It should have been obvious even to somebody as thick as a Boeing executive that something was out of place then. And if that had happened these people in Ethiopia wouldn't have died.0 -
Which is why the indicative vote plan, repeated until something has a majority (besides just 'extension just because') surely has to be the way forward. They can faff about with agreeing to an extension in principle, and no doubt they''ll argue about the length of it as a proxy debate for their preferred options (the shorter the proposal the more someone will back MV3 or no deal presumably, the longer the more they want revocation), but their aversion to saying 'yes' to things is really quite infuriating.Cyclefree said:Voting to extend is all very well but haven't they heard the EU say that Britain has to provide a reasoned justification as to what the extension is going to be for.
Buggering about some more, I'm guessing, will not pass the EU's reasoned justification test.0 -
The big story is that the government has already spent £4,200,000,000 of our tax income on preparing for the no deal scenario that Parliament is about to rule out of question.0
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The question everyone is currently asking is how do I get there without getting the blame.IanB2 said:
The right answer for the country is obviously revocation. The question is how to get there with democratic endorsement.kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.0 -
US now grounds 800 and 900 series MAX aircraft0
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That's not really a big story despite the huge sum of money. As the default legal option it would be even more reckless than they've already been to spend nothing just assuming MPs would eventually rule it out.IanB2 said:The big story is that the government has already spent £4,200,000,000 of our tax income on preparing for the no deal scenario that Parliament is about to rule out of question.
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The question is how to get there at the same time as passing the buck.IanB2 said:
The right answer for the country is obviously revocation. The question is how to get there with democratic endorsement.kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.
If you think the Withdrawal Agreement is so bad that you cannot vote for it, you have no business putting it to the public.0 -
Mr Pennycook accuses the government of "endlessly repeating the nonsensical mantra that no deal is better than a bad deal".
That, he argues, "desensitised many people in this country to the risks involved".
I certainly hope no one else ever endlessly repeats nonsensical mantras, like 'For the many not the few'.0 -
Yes but the vote itself tonight does not invalidate that money being spent, until such times as we work out what we're going to do instead of the no-deal default position.IanB2 said:The big story is that the government has already spent £4,200,000,000 of our tax income on preparing for the no deal scenario that Parliament is about to rule out of question.
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Why did Merkel say an extension would be "easy", then?: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/13/angela-merkel-said-it-would-be-easy-to-get-eu-to-extend-article-50Cyclefree said:Voting to extend is all very well but haven't they heard the EU say that Britain has to provide a reasoned justification as to what the extension is going to be for.
Buggering about some more, I'm guessing, will not pass the EU's reasoned justification test.
0 -
Hint of desperation in Fox's speech. He should stick to feeding fake news to Americans.0
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Or Brexit Means Brexit?kle4 said:Mr Pennycook accuses the government of "endlessly repeating the nonsensical mantra that no deal is better than a bad deal".
That, he argues, "desensitised many people in this country to the risks involved".
I certainly hope no one else ever endlessly repeats nonsensical mantras, like 'For the many not the few'.0 -
True but how do we get Parliament to make any decision in the time left. I suspect we end up with Revoke, new Tory leader and a General Election almost be default..Cyclefree said:Voting to extend is all very well but haven't they heard the EU say that Britain has to provide a reasoned justification as to what the extension is going to be for.
Buggering about some more, I'm guessing, will not pass the EU's reasoned justification test.
Mind you that could equally be No Deal, 6 months of increasing pain, a new Tory Leader and a General election with Corbyn winning 400 seats.0 -
But they can refuse to extend it. Which would rule out the GE and EURef2 escape routes.williamglenn said:
The EU can't force us to revoke Article 50.Pro_Rata said:Ironic that the EU are taking a leaf of the ERGs book and publically refusing to take No Deal off the table.
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That one was even worse, yes.Peter_the_Punter said:
Or Brexit Means Brexit?kle4 said:Mr Pennycook accuses the government of "endlessly repeating the nonsensical mantra that no deal is better than a bad deal".
That, he argues, "desensitised many people in this country to the risks involved".
I certainly hope no one else ever endlessly repeats nonsensical mantras, like 'For the many not the few'.0 -
You can't. If you revoke you have decided democracy no longer matters. I am sure many politicians, not least Corbyn, are going to be very happy with that precedent.IanB2 said:
The right answer for the country is obviously revocation. The question is how to get there with democratic endorsement.kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.0 -
This is the sort of thing that might increase Trump's popularity with voters. I'm not sure most other presidents would have done the same thing, they would have just gone along with the decision of the official air authority.ydoethur said:
Confirmed:timmo said:
Hearing Trump is ordering FAA to ground them in the states as well..IanB2 said:Canada bans 737 Max flights - isolates Trump and the US
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_90b712a98f5346d3ffddcbb61990aa40
Not before bloody time...0 -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/13/brussels-will-tell-theresa-may-ask-long-brexit-extension/
This completely contradicts what the EU were saying publicly yesterday.
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Fox has lost it.
This is the moment Brexit dies.0 -
LMAO, not even in my wildest of crack fantasies.eek said:
True but how do we get Parliament to make any decision in the time left. I suspect we end up with Revoke, new Tory leader and a General Election almost be default..Cyclefree said:Voting to extend is all very well but haven't they heard the EU say that Britain has to provide a reasoned justification as to what the extension is going to be for.
Buggering about some more, I'm guessing, will not pass the EU's reasoned justification test.
Mind you that could equally be No Deal, 6 months of increasing pain, a new Tory Leader and a General election with Corbyn winning 400 seats.0 -
He said ‘good conservative management’ with a straight face.
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Might be a little unfair to them but don't the DUP have the perfect qualifications for scapegoats?eek said:
The question everyone is currently asking is how do I get there without getting the blame.IanB2 said:
The right answer for the country is obviously revocation. The question is how to get there with democratic endorsement.kle4 said:
I struggle with how some of the more passionate ones who think any Brexit would be terrible can not support revocation. Yes, referendum and all that, but if any Brexit is as bad as they say, and they don't feel bound by the first referendum, why should they risk any Brexit in a second? It might be the best they can hope for, but I don't know that it is logically coherent to say any Brexit is a tragedy but that it'll be ok if the public vote for it...the second time.IanB2 said:
Bottom line is that the ERG leavers had their chance and have blown it.kle4 said:
More and more people on the deal side are trying to dissuade the government from trying MV3 it seems - essentially saying don't count on new switchers to get it over the line, I'm done.IanB2 said:Sandbach another MP making the point that voting for the government's deal twice is respect enough for the referendum result.
That puts the whole question of Brexit (being trashed in the Commons with almost every speech) back on the table.
Those who want a vote to prevent no deal is more reasonable.0 -
Strong And Stable Leadership (In The National Interest) has to be the winner, surely?kle4 said:
That one was even worse, yes.Peter_the_Punter said:
Or Brexit Means Brexit?kle4 said:Mr Pennycook accuses the government of "endlessly repeating the nonsensical mantra that no deal is better than a bad deal".
That, he argues, "desensitised many people in this country to the risks involved".
I certainly hope no one else ever endlessly repeats nonsensical mantras, like 'For the many not the few'.0 -
And people say he is not a talented professional. He must be to manage that.Gallowgate said:He said ‘good conservative management’ with a straight face.
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Heidi Allen is going to move the Spelman-Dromey motion:
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11059029710307860500 -
I have heard that so many times, I have even said it myself but it is still defaultIanB2 said:Fox has lost it.
This is the moment Brexit dies.0 -
No deal better than a bad deal?kle4 said:
That one was even worse, yes.Peter_the_Punter said:
Or Brexit Means Brexit?kle4 said:Mr Pennycook accuses the government of "endlessly repeating the nonsensical mantra that no deal is better than a bad deal".
That, he argues, "desensitised many people in this country to the risks involved".
I certainly hope no one else ever endlessly repeats nonsensical mantras, like 'For the many not the few'.0 -
That actually means something even if it was not true though (in fairness 'for the many not the few' means about as much and is a snappy slogan even if everyone says they are for the many). Brexit means Brexit could mean pretty much anything though.numbertwelve said:
Strong And Stable Leadership (In The National Interest) has to be the winner, surely?kle4 said:
That one was even worse, yes.Peter_the_Punter said:
Or Brexit Means Brexit?kle4 said:Mr Pennycook accuses the government of "endlessly repeating the nonsensical mantra that no deal is better than a bad deal".
That, he argues, "desensitised many people in this country to the risks involved".
I certainly hope no one else ever endlessly repeats nonsensical mantras, like 'For the many not the few'.0 -
Ah we're back!
And just in time to get "No Deal" off the table! 0 -
So are tories whipping against this amendment??0
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Spelman amendment is moved by Cooper
Edit/division0 -
Aren't 'strong and stable' and 'for the many not the few' just slogans whereas 'no deal is better than a bad deal' is actually something of a policy position, maybe a slogan as well....numbertwelve said:
Strong And Stable Leadership (In The National Interest) has to be the winner, surely?kle4 said:
That one was even worse, yes.Peter_the_Punter said:
Or Brexit Means Brexit?kle4 said:Mr Pennycook accuses the government of "endlessly repeating the nonsensical mantra that no deal is better than a bad deal".
That, he argues, "desensitised many people in this country to the risks involved".
I certainly hope no one else ever endlessly repeats nonsensical mantras, like 'For the many not the few'.
His arguments about desensitising the country can't really apply to the slogans because they aren't really policy positions.0 -
Cooper moves Spelman.0
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Bercow looks crazed. The whole lot of them have driven themselves batshit over Brexit. I love a bit of chaos!0
