Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » And so MPs move on to vote against leaving the EU with no deal

12346

Comments

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    Is the motion passed tonight legally binding on the Givernment? If the EU say no to an extension and May’s deal is voted down again, is May legally obliged to revoke A50?

    Nope, the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is still on track. We leave end of March unless something changes.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    AndyJS said:

    Theresa May has obviously decided not to sack ministers who vote against the government, but doing so damages her authority and credibility even if it's the sensible thing to do in the circumstances.

    She has no majority and no choice.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Streeter said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:
    Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
    Yvette Cooper would make a fine LOTO.
    Do you prefer coffee or tea Yvette.

    "Well they both have their merits"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Quiet evening, I assume?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:
    Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
    What of it? They got what they wanted, no deal vote passed, and no one 'has' to follow the whip if prepared to face the consequences, which they had repeatedly claimed they were.
    Clearly they are concerned about their careers once this is over.
    If a leaver gets in the Tory cabinet remainers would not be keeping their jobs anyway. They must be sacked, they refused to support their own government. That's a matter of principle, you cannot cry crocodile tears over that in my view.
  • TGOHF said:


    Jeremy Corbyn says from tomorrow he will hold meetings with MPs from across the House of Commons to draft a Brexit deal that could pass

    If only old tin ear had done this yonks ago

    More advisory irrelevance..
    The time for alternatives has passed. The deal is the deal is the deal. If that's not acceptable, and of no deal is not acceptable, then the only remaining option is to revoke.

    Pile your cash in on accidental no deal. Too many fantasy island alternatives still circulating around for MPs to pass the steaming corpse of May's deal at 3rd time of asking, especially not with the EU basically hurling abuse at us at the point twice no voters are being asked to change their minds
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    image The End?
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Can someone summarise what’s going on? I’m trying to watch two football matches and follow Westminster while drinking very average Malbec. I’m bloody confused!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited March 2019

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    I don't blame May for Brexit turning out broadly as I expected it to, with a major political crisis.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    3 line whip

    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion

    I confess I cannot think of the last time the Chancellor of the Exchequer defied a three line whip. Possibly Ritchie in 1903?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    eek said:

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
    75 of them needed to work this out. While some seem to have worked it out have all the people required worked it out yet?
    No.
    Indeed, if they haven't figured it out by now then there is no chance. They have killed any chance of us leaving.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Is the motion passed tonight legally binding on the Givernment? If the EU say no to an extension and May’s deal is voted down again, is May legally obliged to revoke A50?

    No.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,081
    rcs1000 said:

    I quite like the Weathersoon's pubs. Sure, they're a bit too well lit, but the food and the beer are decent, and the prices (usually thanks to Eastern European immigration...) low.

    But Tim is a bit of an arse.

    I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.

    He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.

    * He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.

    I was in a Wetherspoon's last night & could barely see where my plate was. Fortunately I don't need light to be able to read my Kindle.

    Good evening, everybody.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    edited March 2019
    Twitter journos saying the ERG are peeing their pants and briefing that they will vote for MV3/or No Confidence and force a GE.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    _Anazina_ said:

    Can someone summarise what’s going on? I’m trying to watch two football matches and follow Westminster while drinking very average Malbec. I’m bloody confused!

    Basically nothing. Parliament saying no to everything, and meanwhile we trundle onwards towards no-deal by default.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    edited March 2019
    ydoethur said:

    3 line whip

    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion

    I confess I cannot think of the last time the Chancellor of the Exchequer defied a three line whip. Possibly Ritchie in 1903?
    Stephen Hammond
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited March 2019
    Screw them all.

    An Islamic Republic would be better than our current ‘system of government’.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    _Anazina_ said:

    Can someone summarise what’s going on? I’m trying to watch two football matches and follow Westminster while drinking very average Malbec. I’m bloody confused!

    MPs have in principle said they will never accept no deal, but there's legal hurdles to actually give that effect. Tory Remainers in Cabinet didn't back the government and should resign or be sacked but times are crazy. Tomorrow the Commons will likely discuss how long an extension they want. May will try to bring MV3 about, but Bercow can disallow that.

    In short, the Remainers have won.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    ydoethur said:

    3 line whip

    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion

    I confess I cannot think of the last time the Chancellor of the Exchequer defied a three line whip. Possibly Ritchie in 1903?
    It's not the COE.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    AndyJS said:

    Theresa May has obviously decided not to sack ministers who vote against the government, but doing so damages her authority and credibility even if it's the sensible thing to do in these particular circumstances.

    What authority and credibility?
  • The maturity and intellect of Bridgen presumably....

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1105929799237804033
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    BigG It most certainly is not all TM fault.

    Yes it is she called GE 2017
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    3 line whip

    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion

    I confess I cannot think of the last time the Chancellor of the Exchequer defied a three line whip. Possibly Ritchie in 1903?
    It's not the COE.
    OK, That's bad, but not as bad as I thought.

    If he turns on her, she really is finished.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Andrew said:

    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.

    I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
    If the EU won't grant an extension, then even if MV3 passes, there still needs to be

    a) a QMV in the EuCo to adopt the WA (almost certain)
    b) the EP to adopt the WA (very likely, but not certain)
    c) Primary legislation passed by Parliament to implement the WA as required by s.13(1)(d) of the EUWA.

    Getting that last little bit done is going to be the difficult bit.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    No, Stephen Clarke you've done it to yourself you absolubte muppet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    FF43 said:

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    I don't blame May for Brexit turning out broadly as I expected it to, with a major political crisis.
    I admire her tenacity and work ethic, I thought she was one of the few grown ups there, but for a long time now her being in place has not been helping anything and she has had no workable plan, and her choices have undoubtedly been driven by trying to keep together two sides in her party who are irreconcilable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    Andrew said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Can someone summarise what’s going on? I’m trying to watch two football matches and follow Westminster while drinking very average Malbec. I’m bloody confused!

    Basically nothing. Parliament saying no to everything, and meanwhile we trundle onwards towards no-deal by default.
    No we are now trundling towards Single Market and Customs Union BINO or No Brexit at all if the Deal fails again thanks to tonight's vote
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    AndyJS said:

    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.

    Moronic Mogg and his band of blithering blusterers still think they can filibuster out a No Deal Brexit.

    They are fanatical zealots infected with complete idiocy.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    _Anazina_ said:

    Can someone summarise what’s going on? I’m trying to watch two football matches and follow Westminster while drinking very average Malbec. I’m bloody confused!

    Just the two footie matches...I'm on both Champions League and Norwich...I've quaffed a glass of Malbec and now on the Chianti which is rather good....

    fuck knows what's happening though in Brexitland...I'm trying to follow- but it just seems like everyone has taken a very large dose of acid
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    AndyJS said:

    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/Tim0q7zolF3fa/giphy.gif
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    AndyJS said:

    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.

    So having argued for ages that the EU is more afraid of no deal than we are, the ERG now relies upon the EU to force us to a no deal exit?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    3 line whip

    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion

    I confess I cannot think of the last time the Chancellor of the Exchequer defied a three line whip. Possibly Ritchie in 1903?
    It's not the COE.
    OK, That's bad, but not as bad as I thought.

    If he turns on her, she really is finished.
    He just told her to speak to Jezza and get another Deal (#CCU)
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    AndyJS said:

    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.

    If I was the EU I'd be preparing to erect a big sign over the Eurotunnel portal reading "SECURE WARD - ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK"
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    May has shown no interest in facilitating anything other than Brexit. Remainers will have to get rid of her to stop no deal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    The maturity and intellect of Bridgen presumably....

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1105929799237804033

    Yes, that makes total sense. Bring down your leader, and you can then fight a GE with no problems. Dunce.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    HYUFD said:

    Andrew said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Can someone summarise what’s going on? I’m trying to watch two football matches and follow Westminster while drinking very average Malbec. I’m bloody confused!

    Basically nothing. Parliament saying no to everything, and meanwhile we trundle onwards towards no-deal by default.
    No we are now trundling towards Single Market and Customs Union BINO or No Brexit at all if the Deal fails again thanks to tonight's vote
    We may or may not. An accidental no deal is quite possible.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    AndyJS said:

    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.

    Moronic Mogg and his band of blithering blusterers still think they can filibuster out a No Deal Brexit.

    They are fanatical zealots infected with complete idiocy.
    The penny seems to have dropped for Stephen Clarke now on BBC News.
  • stodge said:

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.

    It most certainly is not all TM fault.

    I agree with your comments and put this mess at the door of the 498 mps who voted to invoke A50 with a default no deal outcome
    I'm no Conservative but I respect her diligence, her integrity and recognise her earnest desire to do the best (as she sees it) for Party and country.

    As for "blame", yes, there's plenty to go round but I start with May failing to include and accept voices from outside her Party and Government. Leaving the EU is a national project and required a range of skills, expertise and opinion from across the political spectrum but instead she secreted the whole process within the Conservative Party and spent her spare time making jibes at Labour and talking about "uniting the country".

    As for the nonsense about the 498 MPs and A50, the No Deal outcome isn't our default, it's within A50 itself - you can argue the 24 month time limit is absurd and that's valid but the fact of leaving without a Deal or an agreed extension is within the A50 process. We couldn't have invalidated the No Deal option - could we have prepared better?

    Hindsight is so easy to be honest.

    The irony is that ERG are the real reason brexit is failing - and it is the one thing in this mess that gives me great pleasure
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion

    Claire Perry too
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    Streeter said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:
    Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
    Yvette Cooper would make a fine LOTO.
    Do you prefer coffee or tea Yvette.

    "Well they both have their merits"
    Whatevs. She shafted the Tories tonight.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    AndyJS said:

    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.

    Moronic Mogg and his band of blithering blusterers still think they can filibuster out a No Deal Brexit.

    They are fanatical zealots infected with complete idiocy.
    To think we assumed they were on our side.

    Damn them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    FF43 said:

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    I don't blame May for Brexit turning out broadly as I expected it to, with a major political crisis.
    Yes, but you’re only a slightly more subtle William Glenn.

    May has laid out a practical exit route and a fair deal that I’m more than comfortable with.

    The prats in the ERG would have given their right arms for this five years ago.
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    How would the House vote on a motion asking, "We should ignore the result of the EU referendum and revoke Article 50"?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    3 line whip

    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion

    I confess I cannot think of the last time the Chancellor of the Exchequer defied a three line whip. Possibly Ritchie in 1903?
    It's not the COE.
    OK, That's bad, but not as bad as I thought.

    If he turns on her, she really is finished.
    He just told her to speak to Jezza and get another Deal (#CCU)
    I gather a Whip defied the 3 line whip.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Mogg is right that we're still leaving on 29th March if nothing else is agreed before then. The vote tonight doesn't change that. And the EU might tell us to bugger off anyway.

    Moronic Mogg and his band of blithering blusterers still think they can filibuster out a No Deal Brexit.

    They are fanatical zealots infected with complete idiocy.
    The penny seems to have dropped for Stephen Clarke now on BBC News.
    It's not enough. Every single ERG dickbag is a traitor.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    RoyalBlue said:

    Screw them all.

    An Islamic Republic would be better than our current ‘system of government’.

    Ironically, Brexit might well mean immigrants from Islamic states replace those from European ones. It is something Brexiteers do not seem to understand. Even minimum wage jobs are a tremendous pull for those who live in some of the poorest countries in the world.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    rpjs said:


    If the EU won't grant an extension, then even if MV3 passes, there still needs to be


    If MV3 passes, a short extension would suddenly be no problem at all. They're hardly going to send us all into a crash no-deal mess for want of 2 months, when it's fully agreed.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Fenster said:

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    May is a decent person but a poor leader. She made life incredibly hard for herself after losing a GE which brought about the double calamity of a) losing her majority and b) bringing the DUP/NI into the equation (the EU and the Remainers have played the border issue like a fiddle).

    I still think her deal will get through though. Because for all the bitching and abuse no-one else in parliament has any deal to offer. Her's is the only deal in the room.
    I still think Norway Plus/ Vassal State will be where we end up. But it does require Leavers to accept Brexit has failed, give up, and clear the path for erstwhile Remainers / the "elite" to make the best of things. Leavers are not in that space yet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    ERG Baker committing to vote MV3 down in Parliament.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    Sean_F said:

    Andrew said:

    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.

    I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
    There'd be some very conflicted Labour MPs......
    Nope, they will propose an amendment that in the event of no deal being passed and no extension forthcoming that the government obey the house and revoke A50
    I can't see a majority for that, quite.
    It’s what most MPs want but they don’t want to be on the hook for it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    How would the House vote on a motion asking, "We should ignore the result of the EU referendum and revoke Article 50"?

    It wouldn't pass.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    IanB2 said:

    ERG Baker committing to vote MV3 down in Parliament.

    Wanker.

    It’s just not a big enough word.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    ERG collapsing like a massive great collapsing thing.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    I refuse to believe that the ERG - even the ERG - are going to be so moronically stupid as to turn down a third opportunity to secure Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    How would the House vote on a motion asking, "We should ignore the result of the EU referendum and revoke Article 50"?

    By amending it to say 'after putting the question to a people's vote' because they are cowards.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    kyf_100 said:

    kjohnw said:

    My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters

    I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
    The result of the last national vote to take away May's majority for Brexit seems to have been effective.
    The result of the last national vote was largely due to the dementia tax and Corbyn's promise of free everything.

    It shouldn't need to be said but both Labour and the Tories stood on a promise to implement the result of the 2016 referendum.

    Those who want to cry betrayal are well within their rights to. I'm simply going to abstain. There's no point taking part in the political process any more.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    I refuse to believe that the ERG - even the ERG - are going to be so moronically stupid as to turn down a third opportunity to secure Brexit.

    Yet Baker just stood in Parliament and promised just that.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    PENNY F**KING DROPPED
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IanB2 said:

    ERG Baker committing to vote MV3 down in Parliament.

    What a complete and utter c***ing bagful of dicks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    I refuse to believe that the ERG - even the ERG - are going to be so moronically stupid as to turn down a third opportunity to secure Brexit.

    They shouldn't be given the chance. She's had two attempts. That's it. Time for a new deal that commands cross party support.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    What we must hope for now is that at least one of the EU leaders (perhaps Macron?) puts their foot down and refuses to grant the A50 extension.

    My opinion remains that the best - indeed, only - solution, assuming that the majority in Parliament can't stomach the deal, thinks no deal is catastrophic, and would rather just call the whole thing off, is to revoke, followed by a General Election. However, in any event, the only way that this dire, woeful, incompetent and hopelessly divided Parliament is ever going to settle on any course of action is if it is forced to do so.

    If the EU grants an extension then all MPs will do is waste the time in interminable, futile debate that resolves nothing.
  • I still can't see how it will pass - DUP aren't going to change their minds, some ERG hard liners will choose to stick as well. Mogg will vote against as I cannot see how revoke - the only remaining option at that point - will get a majority or how having done so it could be implemented whilst May remains PM

    It's going to be no deal. At which point we're fucked in every way possible - economic chaos combined with the simultaneous tearing asunder of both main parties
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    did I just hear sky say MV 3 is on next week?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    IanB2 said:

    I refuse to believe that the ERG - even the ERG - are going to be so moronically stupid as to turn down a third opportunity to secure Brexit.

    Yet Baker just stood in Parliament and promised just that.
    I can believe that the ERG, especially baker is that idiotic...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    I refuse to believe that the ERG - even the ERG - are going to be so moronically stupid as to turn down a third opportunity to secure Brexit.

    It's not stupid if they do not want any Brexit that is not perfect. They don't.

    But it may be immaterial. Bercow must be chuckling to himself at the power now in his hands.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kjohnw said:

    My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters

    I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
    The result of the last national vote to take away May's majority for Brexit seems to have been effective.
    The result of the last national vote was largely due to the dementia tax and Corbyn's promise of free everything.

    It shouldn't need to be said but both Labour and the Tories stood on a promise to implement the result of the 2016 referendum.

    Those who want to cry betrayal are well within their rights to. I'm simply going to abstain. There's no point taking part in the political process any more.
    Labour's manifesto was a lot more nuanced than that, if you read it fully.

    And a lot of voters worked out regardless that voting Labour was the best way to chuck a spanner into May's works.
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Pulpstar said:

    How would the House vote on a motion asking, "We should ignore the result of the EU referendum and revoke Article 50"?

    It wouldn't pass.
    Yet they collectively vote to cancel no deal and vote down the only deal..

    What do they want?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    Floater said:

    did I just hear sky say MV 3 is on next week?

    They're speculating that based on the government's motion for tomorrow
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    The EU will allow an extension with s significant change from the UK side e.g. Remain v Deal referendum, there is a majority in the Commons for that over No Deal
  • The EU will formally tell us to stick an extension this time next week. Which leaves us just over a week before the deadline - if you passionately believe in No Deal and you can see the prize days away is nothing else passes, why would you vote to pass something else and thus vote against your dream?
  • stodge said:

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.

    It most certainly is not all TM fault.

    I agree with your comments and put this mess at the door of the 498 mps who voted to invoke A50 with a default no deal outcome
    I'm no Conservative but I respect her diligence, her integrity and recognise her earnest desire to do the best (as she sees it) for Party and country.

    As for "blame", yes, there's plenty to go round but I start with May failing to include and accept voices from outside her Party and Government. Leaving the EU is a national project and required a range of skills, expertise and opinion from across the political spectrum but instead she secreted the whole process within the Conservative Party and spent her spare time making jibes at Labour and talking about "uniting the country".

    As for the nonsense about the 498 MPs and A50, the No Deal outcome isn't our default, it's within A50 itself - you can argue the 24 month time limit is absurd and that's valid but the fact of leaving without a Deal or an agreed extension is within the A50 process. We couldn't have invalidated the No Deal option - could we have prepared better?

    Hindsight is so easy to be honest.

    The irony is that ERG are the real reason brexit is failing - and it is the one thing in this mess that gives me great pleasure
    Me too
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kjohnw said:

    My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters

    I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
    The result of the last national vote to take away May's majority for Brexit seems to have been effective.
    The result of the last national vote was largely due to the dementia tax and Corbyn's promise of free everything.

    It shouldn't need to be said but both Labour and the Tories stood on a promise to implement the result of the 2016 referendum.

    Those who want to cry betrayal are well within their rights to. I'm simply going to abstain. There's no point taking part in the political process any more.
    Labour stood on a promise to rule out no deal and reject May's approach to Brexit. In that respect, it did what it said on the tin.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Floater said:

    did I just hear sky say MV 3 is on next week?

    It won't pass without Labour support or abstention. She needs bring another 60 Tory MPs on board and have 5 Labour rebels and 20 abstentions. It's. Not. Going. To. Happen. Brexit is dead and the ERG killed it.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Expel the entirety of the ERG from the party and call an election. Simple. Tell them to beg Farage for a seat to run and lose in. Pompous bunch of fantasist twats
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    What we must hope for now is that at least one of the EU leaders (perhaps Macron?) puts their foot down and refuses to grant the A50 extension.

    My opinion remains that the best - indeed, only - solution, assuming that the majority in Parliament can't stomach the deal, thinks no deal is catastrophic, and would rather just call the whole thing off, is to revoke, followed by a General Election. However, in any event, the only way that this dire, woeful, incompetent and hopelessly divided Parliament is ever going to settle on any course of action is if it is forced to do so.

    If the EU grants an extension then all MPs will do is waste the time in interminable, futile debate that resolves nothing.

    Indeed, I think you summarise the only way out well. Revoke....Revoke..Revoke!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Laura Kuenssberg


    If Cabinet ministers are allowed to ignore the govt's own instructions then discipline is just gone - to sound like an old bore, if you don't have discipline you don't really have a government for very long.

    GE 2019
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186

    I still can't see how it will pass - DUP aren't going to change their minds, some ERG hard liners will choose to stick as well. Mogg will vote against as I cannot see how revoke - the only remaining option at that point - will get a majority or how having done so it could be implemented whilst May remains PM

    It's going to be no deal. At which point we're fucked in every way possible - economic chaos combined with the simultaneous tearing asunder of both main parties
    Even revoke is more likely than No Deal tonight
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    I don't blame May for Brexit turning out broadly as I expected it to, with a major political crisis.
    Yes, but you’re only a slightly more subtle William Glenn.

    May has laid out a practical exit route and a fair deal that I’m more than comfortable with.

    The prats in the ERG would have given their right arms for this five years ago.
    I think and have always thought Brexit will fail on its own terms because of its contradictions, hence the political crisis. I think and always have thought Brexit will happen, once the referendum was passed . There's a difference.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    IanB2 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kjohnw said:

    My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters

    I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
    The result of the last national vote to take away May's majority for Brexit seems to have been effective.
    The result of the last national vote was largely due to the dementia tax and Corbyn's promise of free everything.

    It shouldn't need to be said but both Labour and the Tories stood on a promise to implement the result of the 2016 referendum.

    Those who want to cry betrayal are well within their rights to. I'm simply going to abstain. There's no point taking part in the political process any more.
    Labour's manifesto was a lot more nuanced than that, if you read it fully.

    And a lot of voters worked out regardless that voting Labour was the best way to chuck a spanner into May's works.
    People seem to disagree on whether people voted Labour because they focused on non-Brexit matters or if they figured it was the way to prevent May's hard Brexit.
  • kle4 said:

    I refuse to believe that the ERG - even the ERG - are going to be so moronically stupid as to turn down a third opportunity to secure Brexit.

    It's not stupid if they do not want any Brexit that is not perfect. They don't.

    But it may be immaterial. Bercow must be chuckling to himself at the power now in his hands.
    They - and millions of wazzocks out there - do not believe that it is Brexit.

    So they won't vote for it. When proper Brexit is days away and happens if nothing else passes
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    I still maintain that Brexit died the moment Fox got to his feet and started to panic.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888
    IanB2 said:

    ERG Baker committing to vote MV3 down in Parliament.

    Eurosceptic Retard Group?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    And somebody deal with jew baiter Corbyn. He's a bigger embarrassment than May
  • IanB2 said:

    ERG Baker committing to vote MV3 down in Parliament.

    Tw@
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited March 2019
    Brexit rule 324 - any initially positive view of how the deal might be received in a vote has invariably proven to be wildly optimistic.

    Edit: Already talking about MV4! It's comic
    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1105933136054099974
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    HYUFD said:

    I still can't see how it will pass - DUP aren't going to change their minds, some ERG hard liners will choose to stick as well. Mogg will vote against as I cannot see how revoke - the only remaining option at that point - will get a majority or how having done so it could be implemented whilst May remains PM

    It's going to be no deal. At which point we're fucked in every way possible - economic chaos combined with the simultaneous tearing asunder of both main parties
    Even revoke is more likely than No Deal tonight
    I agree
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497

    I refuse to believe that the ERG - even the ERG - are going to be so moronically stupid as to turn down a third opportunity to secure Brexit.

    Why would you refuse to believe that with all the evidence that’s available and in front of you?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    RoyalBlue said:

    Screw them all.

    An Islamic Republic would be better than our current ‘system of government’.

    Now you really are talking crap
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Expel the entirety of the ERG from the party and call an election. Simple. Tell them to beg Farage for a seat to run and lose in. Pompous bunch of fantasist twats

    Great strategy except for the views of the Tories' white pensioner membership.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Mark Francois is an utter cock..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    TGOHF said:
    Heard that one a millions times before. My dead dog could see May is gone the second the deal passes (but for handover period), and that's been true for months.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    edited March 2019

    And somebody deal with jew baiter Corbyn. He's a bigger embarrassment than May

    Tone it down a notch comrade

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    HYUFD said:

    I still can't see how it will pass - DUP aren't going to change their minds, some ERG hard liners will choose to stick as well. Mogg will vote against as I cannot see how revoke - the only remaining option at that point - will get a majority or how having done so it could be implemented whilst May remains PM

    It's going to be no deal. At which point we're fucked in every way possible - economic chaos combined with the simultaneous tearing asunder of both main parties
    Even revoke is more likely than No Deal tonight
    I agree
    If anyone wanted proof the political world has been upended...
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    Laura Kuenssberg


    If Cabinet ministers are allowed to ignore the govt's own instructions then discipline is just gone - to sound like an old bore, if you don't have discipline you don't really have a government for very long.

    GE 2019

    Good grief. Has someone spiked Laura’s drink??
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "Nearly 50 people, including actors Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin, were charged on Tuesday in what federal authorities say was a $25 million scam to help wealthy Americans get their children into elite universities like Yale and Stanford.

    The most sweeping college admissions fraud scheme ever unearthed in the United States was masterminded at a small college-preparation company based in Newport Beach, California, prosecutors said. It relied on bribes to coaches, phony test takers and even doctored photos misrepresenting non-athletic applicants as elite competitors to gain admissions for the offspring of rich parents."


    https://www.france24.com/en/20190313-usa-celebrities-wealthy-parents-charged-university-bribery-admissions-scandal
This discussion has been closed.