Sarah Newton has resigned from the Cabinet BBC News reports.
Who? Didn't know she existed/was in the Cabinet.
Must be a junior minister. Wiki's already put an end date for her post.
Junior Minister is not Cabinet though surely?
Not truly, but it doesn't sound as good in a breaking news flash.
All this is clearly confusing how people should write about it - the wiki summary makes it look like the government wanted to reject no deal and she wanted no deal.(yes it was originally the government's motion but it was no longer after amendment)
In March 2019, she resigned from this role to enable her to vote against the Government's motion to reject no-deal Brexit.
Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?
Here's a list of people who have gone down in my estimation through this process: Nigel Farage JRM People who don't understand the difference between the WA and the end state Labour MPs from Leave constituencies People who didn't read the section of the WA agreement regarding the Northern Irish border
People who have gone up: Stephen Lloyd
Why have Farage and JRM gone down? Aren't they just doing what you'd expect them to do?
I quite like the Weathersoon's pubs. Sure, they're a bit too well lit, but the food and the beer are decent, and the prices (usually thanks to Eastern European immigration...) low.
But Tim is a bit of an arse.
I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.
He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.
* He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.
Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?
Here's a list of people who have gone down in my estimation through this process: Nigel Farage JRM People who don't understand the difference between the WA and the end state Labour MPs from Leave constituencies People who didn't read the section of the WA agreement regarding the Northern Irish border
People who have gone up: Stephen Lloyd
Why have Farage and JRM gone down? Aren't they just doing what you'd expect them to do?
My assumption - which I now realise was incorrect - was that they wanted us to leave the EU.
Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?
Here's a list of people who have gone down in my estimation through this process: Nigel Farage JRM People who don't understand the difference between the WA and the end state Labour MPs from Leave constituencies People who didn't read the section of the WA agreement regarding the Northern Irish border
People who have gone up: Stephen Lloyd
I assume you don't include the three Labour MPs who voted for May's deal?
Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?
MEP salary!
Farage will be loving this, it gives him a reason to get up in the morning. His Brexit party could do well. Say what you like about him, and there is a lot to say, but that boy knows his audience.
40+%
Why would I vote for someone who's done more to ensure Britain remains in the EU than Kenneth Clarke?
Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?
MEP salary!
Farage will be loving this, it gives him a reason to get up in the morning. His Brexit party could do well. Say what you like about him, and there is a lot to say, but that boy knows his audience.
40+%
Why would I vote for someone who's done more to ensure Britain remains in the EU than Kenneth Clarke?
Everyone who voted for Brexit in 2016 did more to propel us towards closer integration with the EU than Ken Clarke ever did.
I quite like the Weathersoon's pubs. Sure, they're a bit too well lit, but the food and the beer are decent, and the prices (usually thanks to Eastern European immigration...) low.
But Tim is a bit of an arse.
I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.
He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.
* He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.
Equally given that he is benefiting from migration (see your first paragraph) is he bright enough to see that he may be shooting himself in the foot...
What is the government's objection to the Spelman No No Deal motion when they are offering a free vote on the other motion during the same thing?
The only explanation is that they intended to back it and then subsequently hide behind the weasel wording of its second part. When their ruse was spotted and removed (by just four votes) whips panicked and tried to get the whole thing voted down.
So no surprise that MPs are now deeply unhappy and raising their concerns as points of order.
I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.
She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.
She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
I quite like the Weathersoon's pubs. Sure, they're a bit too well lit, but the food and the beer are decent, and the prices (usually thanks to Eastern European immigration...) low.
But Tim is a bit of an arse.
I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.
He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.
* He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.
Equally given that he is benefiting from migration (see your first paragraph) is he bright enough to see that he may be shooting himself in the foot...
I'm not sure, but I can't recall Martin being that keen on ending FoM.
The credible deal is the one Labour took to Brussels last month which got the seal of approval from the EU negotiators as a positive basis for a soft Brexit. They have had a credible deal all along.
Spreadshit Phil 13.3.19 appears to be advising TM to get on with speaking to Jezza
The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.
Unfortunately I fear that while the EU is more prepared for us than no deal, they won't want to risk that we still don't pass the deal in those circumstances and despite comments will let us extend to faff about.
My money is on another weasel worded motion from government tomorrow that members will have to try and amend again.
Edit/Speaker now reading it out.
One off extension to 30th June
Notes that EU likely to require purpose and any longer extension requires the EU elections
We will not get that extension. At next week's summit they will tell us to swivel.
So, Brexit week then dawns. May will bleat on about my deal or no deal. Her deal will fall. No deal will once again be voted against. She will be forced to revoke as her final act as PM. I think I predicted this a while back...
My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters
I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
If there was to be MV3, and frankly I think that should not happen as the deal is dead, I hope at least it is soon. An extension, for any length of time, will just result in months more of nothing and a last minute panic again.
I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.
She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.
She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
It most certainly is not all TM fault.
I agree with your comments and put this mess at the door of the 498 mps who voted to invoke A50 with a default no deal outcome
The credible deal is the one Labour took to Brussels last month which got the seal of approval from the EU negotiators as a positive basis for a soft Brexit. They have had a credible deal all along.
Spreadshit Phil 13.3.19 appears to be advising TM to get on with speaking to Jezza
Hard to take 'Labour' and 'credible' in the same sentence!!
Unfortunately JRM and the rest of the DUP/ERG have become drunk on their own publicity and have probably blown Brexit forever.
JRM has turned out to be a real dickhead.
Dickhead's the word. I used to think he was an amusing oddball.
I used to think he was an intelligent and reasoned debater on defending unfashionable traditions and principles that others dared not to touch, and he was overlooked for ministerial office.
My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters
I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
The result of the last national vote to take away May's majority for Brexit seems to have been effective.
The credible deal is the one Labour took to Brussels last month which got the seal of approval from the EU negotiators as a positive basis for a soft Brexit. They have had a credible deal all along.
Spreadshit Phil 13.3.19 appears to be advising TM to get on with speaking to Jezza
Hard to take 'Labour' and 'credible' in the same sentence!!
I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.
She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.
She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
May is a decent person but a poor leader. She made life incredibly hard for herself after losing a GE which brought about the double calamity of a) losing her majority and b) bringing the DUP/NI into the equation (the EU and the Remainers have played the border issue like a fiddle).
I still think her deal will get through though. Because for all the bitching and abuse no-one else in parliament has any deal to offer. Her's is the only deal in the room.
"Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament."
Surely she should be calling the MPs out on their contempt for the people? They think they've won, but I suspect an MP's job just got a lot harder in most areas of England.
Unfortunately JRM and the rest of the DUP/ERG have become drunk on their own publicity and have probably blown Brexit forever.
JRM has turned out to be a real dickhead.
Dickhead's the word. I used to think he was an amusing oddball.
I used to think he was an intelligent and reasoned debater on defending unfashionable traditions and principles that others dared not to touch, and he was overlooked for ministerial office.
I was wrong.
I never went that far, but I thought he was thoughtful. But I remember him making up constitutional norms after he failed to oust May, and looking like a pathetic little baby.
Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament
She's probably on her 5th gin and tonic...
But right nevertheless
Parliament knows that government has been trying to play games with them, and MPs are rightly unhappy,
How? The government have given them all the votes they want? They are in the process of successfully over-turning the biggest democratic vote in the history of the country. What more do they want?
Anna Soubry should just reside to the Srangers Bar and find happy oblivion in the gin cabinet, as she's winning.
I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.
She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.
She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
I'm getting very confused - how did the Spelman vote do that?
Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
Sigh, and in come the amendments, particularly on the third point.
That 3rd point only states that there will be EU elections, not what any extension will target as it's final result. And I suspect can kicking / time wasting until hell freezes over isn't an option.
The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.
Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.
I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
There'd be some very conflicted Labour MPs......
Nope, they will propose an amendment that in the event of no deal being passed and no extension forthcoming that the government obey the house and revoke A50
Who would want to be PM next ? Keeping us in after the nation says leave.
Jezza?
He's willing to Leave, on his terms (if that can pass muster with the EU, who knows, but supposedly they are warm to the idea). May should let him have a shot.
I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.
She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.
She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
May is a decent person but a poor leader. She made life incredibly hard for herself after losing a GE which brought about the double calamity of a) losing her majority and b) bringing the DUP/NI into the equation (the EU and the Remainers have played the border issue like a fiddle).
I still think her deal will get through though. Because for all the bitching and abuse no-one else in parliament has any deal to offer. Her's is the only deal in the room.
My gut instinct isn’t usually far wrong.
My gut told me it was all over as soon as that exit poll flashed up.
And I had the same feeling the election would go wrong within minutes of the manifesto launch.
Benjamin Kentish @BenKentish Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.
Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament
She's probably on her 5th gin and tonic...
But right nevertheless
Parliament knows that government has been trying to play games with them, and MPs are rightly unhappy,
How? The government have given them all the votes they want? They are in the process of successfully over-turning the biggest democratic vote in the history of the country. What more do they want?
Anna Soubry should just reside to the Srangers Bar and find happy oblivion in the gin cabinet, as she's winning.
How? May promised MPs a series of straightforward choices, then tried to muddy the water with the wording of today's motion. And looks like it is up to similar tricks tomorrow.
Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion
I'm getting very confused - how did the Spelman vote do that?
Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
What of it? They got what they wanted, no deal vote passed, and no one 'has' to follow the whip if prepared to face the consequences, which they had repeatedly claimed they were.
I'm getting very confused - how did the Spelman vote do that?
Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
Is the motion passed tonight legally binding on the Givernment? If the EU say no to an extension and May’s deal is voted down again, is May legally obliged to revoke A50?
Benjamin Kentish @BenKentish Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.
I'm getting very confused - how did the Spelman vote do that?
Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
What of it? They got what they wanted, no deal vote passed, and no one 'has' to follow the whip if prepared to face the consequences, which they had repeatedly claimed they were.
Clearly they are concerned about their careers once this is over.
Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament
How has it done that? Parliament has kept this government in power and parliament has not yet said what it does want, only what it doesn't want.
Does Parliament not merit contempt?
I think for all May deserves huge amounts of crap for her actions it is a bit rich of parliament to complaint about that given their unreasonableness and unwillingness to make positive choices about things, just say no to things, have been a huge cause of trouble.
Theresa May has obviously decided not to sack ministers who vote against the government, but doing so damages her authority and credibility even if it's the sensible thing to do in these particular circumstances.
I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.
She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.
She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
It most certainly is not all TM fault.
I agree with your comments and put this mess at the door of the 498 mps who voted to invoke A50 with a default no deal outcome
I'm no Conservative but I respect her diligence, her integrity and recognise her earnest desire to do the best (as she sees it) for Party and country.
As for "blame", yes, there's plenty to go round but I start with May failing to include and accept voices from outside her Party and Government. Leaving the EU is a national project and required a range of skills, expertise and opinion from across the political spectrum but instead she secreted the whole process within the Conservative Party and spent her spare time making jibes at Labour and talking about "uniting the country".
As for the nonsense about the 498 MPs and A50, the No Deal outcome isn't our default, it's within A50 itself - you can argue the 24 month time limit is absurd and that's valid but the fact of leaving without a Deal or an agreed extension is within the A50 process. We couldn't have invalidated the No Deal option - could we have prepared better?
The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.
Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.
I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
There'd be some very conflicted Labour MPs......
Nope, they will propose an amendment that in the event of no deal being passed and no extension forthcoming that the government obey the house and revoke A50
Comments
All this is clearly confusing how people should write about it - the wiki summary makes it look like the government wanted to reject no deal and she wanted no deal.(yes it was originally the government's motion but it was no longer after amendment)
In March 2019, she resigned from this role to enable her to vote against the Government's motion to reject no-deal Brexit.
But Tim is a bit of an arse.
I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.
He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.
* He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.
But better than Labour
Still, you might get your wish
You can't say you were not warned.
They’ve surpassed themselves.
Frying Pan or the fire BREXIT is off
#CorbynsCustomsUnion or GE2019
So no surprise that MPs are now deeply unhappy and raising their concerns as points of order.
I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.
She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.
She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
Spreadshit Phil 13.3.19 appears to be advising TM to get on with speaking to Jezza
It needed to be close enough that people could think they were doing the right thing for the country by backing it or abstaining.
"Even when he's driving up the Mall as the Queens 14th Prime Minister?"
Nope, the great and the good will refuse to accept it. Once you negate a democratic election, all bets are off.
So, Brexit week then dawns. May will bleat on about my deal or no deal. Her deal will fall. No deal will once again be voted against. She will be forced to revoke as her final act as PM. I think I predicted this a while back...
I agree with your comments and put this mess at the door of the 498 mps who voted to invoke A50 with a default no deal outcome
Parliament knows that government has been trying to play games with them, and MPs are rightly unhappy,
I was wrong.
I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
I still think her deal will get through though. Because for all the bitching and abuse no-one else in parliament has any deal to offer. Her's is the only deal in the room.
"Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament."
Surely she should be calling the MPs out on their contempt for the people? They think they've won, but I suspect an MP's job just got a lot harder in most areas of England.
Anna Soubry should just reside to the Srangers Bar and find happy oblivion in the gin cabinet, as she's winning.
Noes outside Gov't parties
Lady Hermon
Ronnie Campbell
Stephen Hepburn
Kate Hoey
Kelvin Hopkins
John Mann
Dennis Skinner
Graham Stringer
Tory Ayes
Guto Bebb
Kenneth Clarke
Justine Greening
Dominic Grieve
Sam Gyimah
Phillip Lee
Antoinette Sandbach
Caroline Spelman
Ed Vaizey
Independent Ayes (All Tiggers voted Aye)
Ian Austin
Frank Field
Stephen lloyd
John Woodcock
Jared O'Mara
Fiona Onasanya !!
If only old tin ear had done this yonks ago
Seriously. This actually happened. Even Andrew Neil was shocked at the stupidity of it.
My gut told me it was all over as soon as that exit poll flashed up.
And I had the same feeling the election would go wrong within minutes of the manifesto launch.
Benjamin Kentish
@BenKentish
Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion
Richard Benyon
Nick Boles
Jonathan Djanogly
George Freeman
Oliver Letwin
Paul Masterton
Sarah Newton
Mark Pawsey
Antoinette Sandbach
Nicholas Soames
Labour Noes for main motion
Stephen Hepburn
Kate Hoey
Indpendent Noes
Lady Hermon
As for "blame", yes, there's plenty to go round but I start with May failing to include and accept voices from outside her Party and Government. Leaving the EU is a national project and required a range of skills, expertise and opinion from across the political spectrum but instead she secreted the whole process within the Conservative Party and spent her spare time making jibes at Labour and talking about "uniting the country".
As for the nonsense about the 498 MPs and A50, the No Deal outcome isn't our default, it's within A50 itself - you can argue the 24 month time limit is absurd and that's valid but the fact of leaving without a Deal or an agreed extension is within the A50 process. We couldn't have invalidated the No Deal option - could we have prepared better?