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She tried to get down with da kidz by adopting the same jargon as Ash Everywhere Now On The Radio/TV used in terms of describing peoples' colour. But got it badly wrong.DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Not racist by a million miles, but knock yourself out being outraged.0 -
The TIG seems to be more economically liberal (Orangebookers, Blairite) than the current LibDems but less socially liberal (Traditional). They share an open international outlook.IanB2 said:
As has been identified, the gap in the market isn't for a strongly liberal party, which is always a minority position, but for a sensible but reforming centrist party with what you might call more traditional values. So far TIG appear to be trying to position themselves in that space.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
TIG could appeal more to Tory voters than Labour, particularly Tory Remainers. It would be helpful if some Tory MPs joined TIG.0 -
Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/10409030488920186880 -
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What are we supposed to be looking at? Surely there will be a new candidate in any constituency where the current member leaves the party, whichever party?Scott_P said:0 -
Mr. Walker, it's my understanding that the Tigger manifesto is to be flouncy, bouncy, pouncy, fun fun fun fun fun.0
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Who’s outraged? She said ‘funny tinge’ because Ash Sakar said her adopted dad was ‘pinkish’? So the funny tinge was Ash Sakar’s Dads colour?TOPPING said:
She tried to get down with da kidz by adopting the same jargon as Ash Everywhere Now On The Radio/TV used in terms of describing peoples' colour. But got it badly wrong.DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Not racist by a million miles, but knock yourself out being outraged.0 -
Is this the one found crashed in Norway, that's going to be rebuilt on the Isle of Wight?Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/10409030488920186880 -
I'd agree. Not the best choice of words, and I think you can tell her mouth is moving but her brain has had a belt come off, but it's a bit harsh to call racist.TOPPING said:
She tried to get down with da kidz by adopting the same jargon as Ash Everywhere Now On The Radio/TV used in terms of describing peoples' colour. But got it badly wrong.DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Not racist by a million miles, but knock yourself out being outraged.0 -
Angela Smith might be a bit thick, but it seems unlikely she’s harbouring a kind of racist Tourette’s syndrome.DonTsInferno_ said:
Does it?! What did I do?Gardenwalker said:
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Ash Sarkar made some comments about her relatives being “pinkish”. Smith obviously looks to have construed this as an absurdist comment, and then when trying to refer back to it used the term “funny tinge”.
It’s awkward as hell, but you can see how she got there.0 -
Yep, that's definitely the next move, rumoured as possible early next week. Without that they will struggle to be seen as anything other than a lifeboat for unhappy Labourites.Barnesian said:
The TIG seems to be more economically liberal (Orangebookers, Blairite) than the current LibDems but less socially liberal (Traditional). They share an open international outlook.IanB2 said:
As has been identified, the gap in the market isn't for a strongly liberal party, which is always a minority position, but for a sensible but reforming centrist party with what you might call more traditional values. So far TIG appear to be trying to position themselves in that space.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
TIG could appeal more to Tory voters than Labour, particularly Tory Remainers. It would be helpful if some Tory MPs joined TIG.0 -
That's correct. Interestingly Mcdonnell much more conciliatory today suggesting they're rattled. The Hatton thing however is grotesque and shows the true direction of travel.SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
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Wrong reply0
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Yes.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory?
It's all getting very retro:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/10975797038908211200 -
Nandy said she wanted back in (2017) but I doubt the others would.AlastairMeeks said:
Do any of those four actually want to be in the shadow Cabinet?SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
And to be fair, why shouldn't Corbyn stick with people who stayed loyal, any other leader would do the same. He brought back Owen Smith and that didn't exactly do him any favours.0 -
Lammy and Burgon are closely matched intellectuallyAlastairMeeks said:
Do any of those four actually want to be in the shadow Cabinet?SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
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Yes, you may be right. Perhaps I was being uncharitable.Gardenwalker said:
Angela Smith might be a bit thick, but it seems unlikely she’s harbouring a kind of racist Tourette’s syndrome.DonTsInferno_ said:
Does it?! What did I do?Gardenwalker said:
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Ash Sarkar made some comments about her relatives being “pinkish”. Smith obviously looks to have construed this as an absurdist comment, and then when trying to refer back to it used the term “funny tinge”.
It’s awkward as hell, but you can see how she got there.0 -
Real slow motion car crash after Smith says the word 'funny'. You can see her realising that she's blundering whilst 'tinge' is seeping out half hidden and quietly but her brain is powerless to completely stop her mouth !0
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they make 2/3rds scale Spitfires near Oxford - a bunch of mad volunteers, all 'hail fellow well met' types - good funIanB2 said:
Is this the one found crashed in Norway, that's going to be rebuilt on the Isle of Wight?Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/10409030488920186880 -
It's funny how a consistent pattern of behaviour in one politician is seen as 'idiosyncratic' and in another a single maladroit phrase proof of deeply imbedded racism....Gardenwalker said:
Angela Smith might be a bit thick, but it seems unlikely she’s harbouring a kind of racist Tourette’s syndrome.DonTsInferno_ said:
Does it?! What did I do?Gardenwalker said:
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?0 -
We have an electoral system that pretty much guarantees that unless you are voting Labour/Tory you may as well stay at home. It is not a coincidence that other movements like En Marche, 5 Star, Podemos etc have have only emerged in countries with PR.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
We are stuck with Buggin's turn while the other 27 EU countries have more sophisticated and responsive electoral systems. Of course, as always, they are all wrong and Britain is right.0 -
Not sure. Perhaps. Gauche? Absolutely. Out of touch? Yes sirree. But not imo racist.DonTsInferno_ said:
Who’s outraged? She said ‘funny tinge’ because Ash Sakar said her adopted dad was ‘pinkish’? So the funny tinge was Ash Sakar’s Dads colour?TOPPING said:
She tried to get down with da kidz by adopting the same jargon as Ash Everywhere Now On The Radio/TV used in terms of describing peoples' colour. But got it badly wrong.DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Not racist by a million miles, but knock yourself out being outraged.0 -
I’m not sure. She says ‘funny tinge’ in the context of ‘being in the BAME community’, which a pinkish white man isn't. Had she meant that, she could have just said so rather than apologise so profusely.Gardenwalker said:
Angela Smith might be a bit thick, but it seems unlikely she’s harbouring a kind of racist Tourette’s syndrome.DonTsInferno_ said:
Does it?! What did I do?Gardenwalker said:
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Ash Sarkar made some comments about her relatives being “pinkish”. Smith obviously looks to have construed this as an absurdist comment, and then when trying to refer back to it used the term “funny tinge”.
It’s awkward as hell, but you can see how she got there.
I don’t think she is racist or meant any harm, just surprised at the unusually forgiving acceptance of that kind of slip up.
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1097526500998303745?s=210 -
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
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Yup. They need to quickly decide whether they’re interested in beating Trump in 2020, or running up massive majorities in CA, NY and the NE states that makes them feel good.Slackbladder said:
Thats the problem the Democrats have. AOC and her ilk are going to push any 2020 runner to the more extreme end of policy, making Trumps run easiler.edmundintokyo said:
Speaking of impossible promises, KLOBUCHAR just did a town hall on CNN and refused to take part in the Democratic bidding war. Check out the questioner's sad face at the end:CarlottaVance said:A third of a century ago......
https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1097588071648952325
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
Ms Klobuchar gave the right answer to the question if they’re interested in beating Trump.0 -
I think Klobuchar would win just as well in California as someone from the AOC side of the party.Sandpit said:
Yup. They need to quickly decide whether they’re interested in beating Trump in 2020, or running up massive majorities in CA, NY and the NE states that makes them feel good.Slackbladder said:
Thats the problem the Democrats have. AOC and her ilk are going to push any 2020 runner to the more extreme end of policy, making Trumps run easiler.edmundintokyo said:
Speaking of impossible promises, KLOBUCHAR just did a town hall on CNN and refused to take part in the Democratic bidding war. Check out the questioner's sad face at the end:CarlottaVance said:A third of a century ago......
https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1097588071648952325
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
Ms Klobuchar gave the right answer to the question if they’re interested in beating Trump.0 -
Yes - that will be the challenge, which one day, the government might turn its attention to....SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:0 -
See “Roger” here for that attitude in action.Sandpit said:
Interesting statement. As we discussed on here yesterday, the car industry globally is in a massive state of flux at the moment - except for at the top end of luxury, performance and motorsport, which are a massive British industry success story.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Hopefully Honda will work with employees and government to minimise the impact on those affected by this closure.
What's immediately clear though, is that a certain element of the #FPBE crowd, particularly on Twitter, are overjoyed at and celebrating anyone who announces job losses. Not a good look.0 -
European electric vehicle manufacture, for which you certainly want tariff free access to the EU...SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:0 -
The head of a recruitment agency covering the Wiltshire and Bristol areas said on 5 live this morning that the high skills of the workforce are in much demand due to a current skills shortage and because of the timeline to 2021 he was confident most of the workforce would find alternative high skill jobs in the areaSouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Wonder how long it'll be till they're having nostalgathons for the Airbus A380?CarlottaVance said:
Yes.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory?
It's all getting very retro:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/10975797038908211200 -
Nicola Sturgeon: "For me, this is one of the saddest parts of Brexit. The UK government is proclaiming the end of free movement as a victory - instead, it is a self-defeating measure. It removes opportunity from millions of people."0
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Most Spitfires were made at Castle Bromwich. Various components for specialist marques like the PRs were made in other parts of the country.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/10409030488920186880 -
By the way, would you like to apologise for calling me racist? Or was it a joke that went over my head?Gardenwalker said:
Angela Smith might be a bit thick, but it seems unlikely she’s harbouring a kind of racist Tourette’s syndrome.DonTsInferno_ said:
Does it?! What did I do?Gardenwalker said:
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Ash Sarkar made some comments about her relatives being “pinkish”. Smith obviously looks to have construed this as an absurdist comment, and then when trying to refer back to it used the term “funny tinge”.
It’s awkward as hell, but you can see how she got there.0 -
Have we learned nothing from "electable" Hiliary?Sandpit said:
Yup. They need to quickly decide whether they’re interested in beating Trump in 2020, or running up massive majorities in CA, NY and the NE states that makes them feel good.Slackbladder said:
Thats the problem the Democrats have. AOC and her ilk are going to push any 2020 runner to the more extreme end of policy, making Trumps run easiler.edmundintokyo said:
Speaking of impossible promises, KLOBUCHAR just did a town hall on CNN and refused to take part in the Democratic bidding war. Check out the questioner's sad face at the end:CarlottaVance said:A third of a century ago......
https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1097588071648952325
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
Ms Klobuchar gave the right answer to the question if they’re interested in beating Trump.0 -
Chuka is feeling chipper...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/19/chuka-umunna-hopes-new-party-will-be-created-by-end-of-year0 -
Surely the Tories will just have to repeat the success of their re-skilling & redeployment policies of the 80s?SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:0 -
I'll miss it when its gone - much prefer it to the 350 or 787 in the cheap seats.....bl££dy accountants.....Qatar will be retiring theirs when they get to 10 years old and while Emirates will likely keep them flying a while longer other airlines like SQ may only have them in their fleets for another decade or so. The first one I flew on has already been broken up.Theuniondivvie said:
Wonder how long it'll be till they're having nostalgathons for the Airbus A380?CarlottaVance said:
Yes.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory?
It's all getting very retro:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/10975797038908211200 -
It was a joke. Probably.DonTsInferno_ said:
By the way, would you like to apologise for calling me racist? Or was it a joke that went over my head?Gardenwalker said:
Angela Smith might be a bit thick, but it seems unlikely she’s harbouring a kind of racist Tourette’s syndrome.DonTsInferno_ said:
Does it?! What did I do?Gardenwalker said:
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Ash Sarkar made some comments about her relatives being “pinkish”. Smith obviously looks to have construed this as an absurdist comment, and then when trying to refer back to it used the term “funny tinge”.
It’s awkward as hell, but you can see how she got there.0 -
Mr. Stereotomy, to be fair, Clinton would've won, almost certainly, had she not deployed her considerable campaigning resources in an obviously foolish manner.0
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No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.0 -
Let's imagine no Brexit, or a benign Brexit. Do you think the govt would have (a la Nissan) made a huge play to be Honda's EU electric car manufacturing (or even assembly) hub or somehow to keep something here?Pulpstar said:
European electric vehicle manufacture, for which you certainly want tariff free access to the EU...SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
With the Brexit we seem to be heading towards, together with the current uncertainty, that was not possible.0 -
What does that mean?Gardenwalker said:
It was a joke. Probably.DonTsInferno_ said:
By the way, would you like to apologise for calling me racist? Or was it a joke that went over my head?Gardenwalker said:
Angela Smith might be a bit thick, but it seems unlikely she’s harbouring a kind of racist Tourette’s syndrome.DonTsInferno_ said:
Does it?! What did I do?Gardenwalker said:
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?DonTsInferno_ said:
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces meGardenwalker said:As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
Ash Sarkar made some comments about her relatives being “pinkish”. Smith obviously looks to have construed this as an absurdist comment, and then when trying to refer back to it used the term “funny tinge”.
It’s awkward as hell, but you can see how she got there.0 -
But look at any of the Tories touted as TIG-joiners. Their voting records outside Brexit are massively misaligned. It will not make for a coherent party once Brexit is resolved.Barnesian said:
The TIG seems to be more economically liberal (Orangebookers, Blairite) than the current LibDems but less socially liberal (Traditional). They share an open international outlook.IanB2 said:
As has been identified, the gap in the market isn't for a strongly liberal party, which is always a minority position, but for a sensible but reforming centrist party with what you might call more traditional values. So far TIG appear to be trying to position themselves in that space.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
TIG could appeal more to Tory voters than Labour, particularly Tory Remainers. It would be helpful if some Tory MPs joined TIG.0 -
Our system does generate change, but in a different manner to PR-based systems.OllyT said:
We have an electoral system that pretty much guarantees that unless you are voting Labour/Tory you may as well stay at home. It is not a coincidence that other movements like En Marche, 5 Star, Podemos etc have have only emerged in countries with PR.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
We are stuck with Buggin's turn while the other 27 EU countries have more sophisticated and responsive electoral systems. Of course, as always, they are all wrong and Britain is right.
And under PR, it's possible for a party to gain widespread support, while also being shut out by the established parties.0 -
There's plenty of vacancies in manufacturing at present and recruitment is difficult.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The head of a recruitment agency covering the Wiltshire and Bristol areas said on 5 live this morning that the high skills of the workforce are in much demand due to a current skills shortage and because of the timeline to 2021 he was confident most of the workforce would find alternative high skill jobs in the areaSouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Though a concentration of job losses could bring difficulties locally.0 -
Emirates have already said that the latest orders will be replacement aircraft for older A380s. The first few dozen they made were horrendously overweight, limited in passenger numbers, cargo and range as a result.CarlottaVance said:
I'll miss it when its gone - much prefer it to the 350 or 787 in the cheap seats.....bl££dy accountants.....Qatar will be retiring theirs when they get to 10 years old and while Emirates will likely keep them flying a while longer other airlines like SQ may only have them in their fleets for another decade or so. The first one I flew on has already been broken up.Theuniondivvie said:
Wonder how long it'll be till they're having nostalgathons for the Airbus A380?CarlottaVance said:
Yes.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory?
It's all getting very retro:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/10975797038908211200 -
Not disagreeing. Although Macron won the presidency which is a single position and hence not PR.OllyT said:
We have an electoral system that pretty much guarantees that unless you are voting Labour/Tory you may as well stay at home. It is not a coincidence that other movements like En Marche, 5 Star, Podemos etc have have only emerged in countries with PR.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
We are stuck with Buggin's turn while the other 27 EU countries have more sophisticated and responsive electoral systems. Of course, as always, they are all wrong and Britain is right.0 -
Take apart either of the major parties and you could say the same, were it not for strong whipping.MarqueeMark said:
But look at any of the Tories touted as TIG-joiners. Their voting records outside Brexit are massively misaligned. It will not make for a coherent party once Brexit is resolved.Barnesian said:
The TIG seems to be more economically liberal (Orangebookers, Blairite) than the current LibDems but less socially liberal (Traditional). They share an open international outlook.IanB2 said:
As has been identified, the gap in the market isn't for a strongly liberal party, which is always a minority position, but for a sensible but reforming centrist party with what you might call more traditional values. So far TIG appear to be trying to position themselves in that space.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
TIG could appeal more to Tory voters than Labour, particularly Tory Remainers. It would be helpful if some Tory MPs joined TIG.0 -
I agree with the thread header by Mike. The set up provides flexibility for people who have different views, but a core view in common to work together. We have recently seen something similar in our local council regarding our local plan which is a fiasco and with an authoritarian Executive. Councillors of different outlooks are resigning from their party and banding together on something they agree on that overshadows everything else.0
-
On the subject of vacancies, they have reached another new all time high of 870 thousand according to the ONS.another_richard said:
There's plenty of vacancies in manufacturing at present and recruitment is difficult.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The head of a recruitment agency covering the Wiltshire and Bristol areas said on 5 live this morning that the high skills of the workforce are in much demand due to a current skills shortage and because of the timeline to 2021 he was confident most of the workforce would find alternative high skill jobs in the areaSouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Though a concentration of job losses could bring difficulties locally.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/timeseries/ap2y/unem
It should be noted that vacancies are the most up to date of the ONS employment data.0 -
Exactly although some Brits still haven’t worked out that the end of freedom of movement relates to them . Some still think they’re special and can swan around the EU without a care in the world .IanB2 said:Nicola Sturgeon: "For me, this is one of the saddest parts of Brexit. The UK government is proclaiming the end of free movement as a victory - instead, it is a self-defeating measure. It removes opportunity from millions of people."
0 -
My view is that there isn’t any electoral system that offers an obvious silver bullet.Sean_F said:
Our system does generate change, but in a different manner to PR-based systems.OllyT said:
We have an electoral system that pretty much guarantees that unless you are voting Labour/Tory you may as well stay at home. It is not a coincidence that other movements like En Marche, 5 Star, Podemos etc have have only emerged in countries with PR.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
We are stuck with Buggin's turn while the other 27 EU countries have more sophisticated and responsive electoral systems. Of course, as always, they are all wrong and Britain is right.
And under PR, it's possible for a party to gain widespread support, while also being shut out by the established parties.0 -
Jobs being created don't attract headlines, unless the numbers are huge.Sandpit said:
No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.0 -
Mr. Sandpit, yesterday Wolff was making grumpy noises about the impact of a no deal departure on F1 teams, but that seemed a bit weird to me. Given 8/10 teams and all the supply chains have built up around here, surely that wouldn't have an impact?
Maybe it would, but at first glance it seems peculiar. What d'you think?0 -
Adonis on Sky News asked about the TIGS. Immediately blames Honda on Brexit. Calls for A50 to be revoked. I'm not sure if he is a one trick pony or he misheard the question....0
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Yes, if you were touting for international business, would you draw attention to Brexit as a potential advantage? The answer would appear obvious, but there's none so blind.....TOPPING said:
Let's imagine no Brexit, or a benign Brexit. Do you think the govt would have (a la Nissan) made a huge play to be Honda's EU electric car manufacturing (or even assembly) hub or somehow to keep something here?Pulpstar said:
European electric vehicle manufacture, for which you certainly want tariff free access to the EU...SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
With the Brexit we seem to be heading towards, together with the current uncertainty, that was not possible.0 -
Because the result was so close, there are quite a few individual mistakes which if corrected would probably have put her over the line. But equally I'm sure there are lots of mistakes Trump made which prevented him from getting a bigger lead.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Stereotomy, to be fair, Clinton would've won, almost certainly, had she not deployed her considerable campaigning resources in an obviously foolish manner.
So yes, Hiliary could have won, but that doesn't change the fact that she utterly turned off her potential voters with the bland centrism that was supposed to be an electoral asset, while Trump excited his.0 -
and losing Honda is still fewer jobs overall, however you look at it. Honda leaving isn't creating any (permanent) jobsSean_F said:
Jobs being created don't attract headlines, unless the numbers are huge.Sandpit said:
No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.0 -
You're quite the interventionist.Sandpit said:
No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.0 -
Hillington at the edge of Glasgow had a good chunk of the Merlin production. I visit it reasonably frequently because the Ducati store has relocated there, buts afaik there's no remnant left, or commemoration even.Dura_Ace said:
Most Spitfires were made at Castle Bromwich. Various components for specialist marques like the PRs were made in other parts of the country.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/10409030488920186880 -
or is a politician.twistedfirestopper3 said:Adonis on Sky News asked about the TIGS. Immediately blames Honda on Brexit. Calls for A50 to be revoked. I'm not sure if he is a one trick pony or he misheard the question....
("That's not the question you should have asked me, the question you should have asked me is...")0 -
Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
0 -
EU nationals working in the UK down 61,000 on a year earlier . Non EU nationals up 130,000.
So Brits lose their freedom of movement rights to allow more people in from outside the EU from countries that don’t give us freedom of movement .
Is this what Leavers wanted , more non EU migration !
Brexit becomes more absurd by the day .0 -
I’ve not found a link to what he actually said, but he’s probably nervous about increased paperwork and potential delays for imported components and people in the event of no deal. It will be the uncertainty that’s causing problems for an organisation that plans for every eventuality to the nth degree.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, yesterday Wolff was making grumpy noises about the impact of a no deal departure on F1 teams, but that seemed a bit weird to me. Given 8/10 teams and all the supply chains have built up around here, surely that wouldn't have an impact?
Maybe it would, but at first glance it seems peculiar. What d'you think?0 -
By contrast redundancies get heavily reported.Sean_F said:
Jobs being created don't attract headlines, unless the numbers are huge.Sandpit said:
No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.
While in reality redundancy levels have been at record low levels.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/redundancies/datasets/redundancieslevelsandratesseasonallyadjustedred01sa0 -
Late to this thread so I imagine all the points have already been made but what the heck, let's make them again.
TIG is not a sustainable position. I don't know whether Mike's right or not with his assertion that "The group they’ve designed has one initial purpose and that was to be a vehicle for them to leave Labour and provide a means for others to follow from the Tories and other parties. This meant that they did not have to have a policy platform."
On the one hand, being a purely negative reaction against the direction of Labour under Corbyn (and, potentially, the Tories handling of Brexit), has its advantages in that people aren't put off by specific policies. However, they might just as easily (or more easily?) be put off by that same lack of policies: why jump into a vacuum? Either TIG develops policies (in which case, MPs thinking of defecting might once again find themselves out on a limb), or alternatively it doesn't (in which case, what future does it have?).
My impression is that the ex-Lab MPs still retain sufficient emotional attachment to Labour that they're trying to leave open a door to rejoin. Most are not at the end of their natural political career and would hope to contest the next election. If so, they're badly mistaken. Resigning the whip in this way has burned those bridges and they won't be rebuilt until today's version of Militant is again chased out (which given Hatton's return to Labour this week underscores that the tide is still running against them).
Therefore, they are going to have to either retire from active politics or fight the next election under a non-Lab flag - which in turn implies either joining an existing party or starting a new one.
The local elections take place in two and a half months. If the Gang of Seven were to launch a new party today, and appeal to disaffected Labour and other activists to join them, they might have time to make an impact on them but they'll have to move quickly. Similarly, the Newport West by-election offers another opportunity to make an impact in a Labour-held semi-marginal - as might a Peterborough by-election, depending on events there. These are good opportunities scheduled for a time of likely high political drama when the pieces are up in the air and much might be possible.
By not acting, they are letting chances slip and events shape them.0 -
What is worse, or at least more ironic, is that ending Freedom of Movement is not accompanied by any desire to reduce immigration, which is what most people think it means. Witness non-EU immigration from 2010 while Theresa May was Home Secretary, and just last week we learned Leave had told Indian restaurants that Brexit would make it easier and cheaper to bring in staff from the sub-continent.nico67 said:
Exactly although some Brits still haven’t worked out that the end of freedom of movement relates to them . Some still think they’re special and can swan around the EU without a care in the world .IanB2 said:Nicola Sturgeon: "For me, this is one of the saddest parts of Brexit. The UK government is proclaiming the end of free movement as a victory - instead, it is a self-defeating measure. It removes opportunity from millions of people."
0 -
Mr. Stereotomy, calling half the electorate a basket of deplorables didn't help either...
0 -
En March also won the subsequent parliamentary electionsIanB2 said:
Not disagreeing. Although Macron won the presidency which is a single position and hence not PR.OllyT said:
We have an electoral system that pretty much guarantees that unless you are voting Labour/Tory you may as well stay at home. It is not a coincidence that other movements like En Marche, 5 Star, Podemos etc have have only emerged in countries with PR.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?Roger said:
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn CliqueNickPalmer said:
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.DavidL said:At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
We are stuck with Buggin's turn while the other 27 EU countries have more sophisticated and responsive electoral systems. Of course, as always, they are all wrong and Britain is right.0 -
Not to mention Switzerland ...nico67 said:
Exactly although some Brits still haven’t worked out that the end of freedom of movement relates to them . Some still think they’re special and can swan around the EU without a care in the world .IanB2 said:Nicola Sturgeon: "For me, this is one of the saddest parts of Brexit. The UK government is proclaiming the end of free movement as a victory - instead, it is a self-defeating measure. It removes opportunity from millions of people."
0 -
Someone suggested that after Brexit the most we could hope for was to become a 1950's theme park in the middle of the Atlantic. I think they were being optimisticCarlottaVance said:
Why build here with our uncertain future when the world's largest market is just a stone's throw away and we're not part of it?Sandpit said:
No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.0 -
The difference between the number of immigrants to the UK and the number of immigrants working is rather startling.nico67 said:EU nationals working in the UK down 61,000 on a year earlier . Non EU nationals up 130,000.
So Brits lose their freedom of movement rights to allow more people in from outside the EU from countries that don’t give us freedom of movement .
Is this what Leavers wanted , more non EU migration !
Brexit becomes more absurd by the day .
Makes you wonder who is migrating to the UK and for what purposes.0 -
I don't think bland centrism was her main problem though. Her problem was that she was a dumb strategist, charmlessly phoney, and oozed entitlement. I don't think any of these apply to Baemy.Stereotomy said:
Because the result was so close, there are quite a few individual mistakes which if corrected would probably have put her over the line. But equally I'm sure there are lots of mistakes Trump made which prevented him from getting a bigger lead.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Stereotomy, to be fair, Clinton would've won, almost certainly, had she not deployed her considerable campaigning resources in an obviously foolish manner.
So yes, Hiliary could have won, but that doesn't change the fact that she utterly turned off her potential voters with the bland centrism that was supposed to be an electoral asset, while Trump excited his.0 -
With real earnings many people are doing very nicely while many are still struggling.TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
Its likely providing a boost to both the Conservatives and Labour.0 -
It’s amazing how quiet Leave campaigners are now on the large increase in non EU nationals coming to the UK.DecrepitJohnL said:
What is worse, or at least more ironic, is that ending Freedom of Movement is not accompanied by any desire to reduce immigration, which is what most people think it means. Witness non-EU immigration from 2010 while Theresa May was Home Secretary, and just last week we learned Leave had told Indian restaurants that Brexit would make it easier and cheaper to bring in staff from the sub-continent.nico67 said:
Exactly although some Brits still haven’t worked out that the end of freedom of movement relates to them . Some still think they’re special and can swan around the EU without a care in the world .IanB2 said:Nicola Sturgeon: "For me, this is one of the saddest parts of Brexit. The UK government is proclaiming the end of free movement as a victory - instead, it is a self-defeating measure. It removes opportunity from millions of people."
0 -
I had a Multistrada 1200 for a while but crashed the fuck out of it near Brest. I've gone back "home" to MV Agusta now.Theuniondivvie said:
Hillington at the edge of Glasgow had a good chunk of the Merlin production. I visit it reasonably frequently because the Ducati store has relocated there, buts afaik there's no remnant left, or commemoration even.Dura_Ace said:
Most Spitfires were made at Castle Bromwich. Various components for specialist marques like the PRs were made in other parts of the country.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/10409030488920186880 -
Is it not possible to view the Leave win and the relative success of Corbyn at the last GE as a rejection of the Blairite politics that seem to form the basis of the GO7?david_herdson said:Late to this thread so I imagine all the points have already been made but what the heck, let's make them again.
TIG is not a sustainable position. I don't know whether Mike's right or not with his assertion that "The group they’ve designed has one initial purpose and that was to be a vehicle for them to leave Labour and provide a means for others to follow from the Tories and other parties. This meant that they did not have to have a policy platform."
On the one hand, being a purely negative reaction against the direction of Labour under Corbyn (and, potentially, the Tories handling of Brexit), has its advantages in that people aren't put off by specific policies. However, they might just as easily (or more easily?) be put off by that same lack of policies: why jump into a vacuum? Either TIG develops policies (in which case, MPs thinking of defecting might once again find themselves out on a limb), or alternatively it doesn't (in which case, what future does it have?).
My impression is that the ex-Lab MPs still retain sufficient emotional attachment to Labour that they're trying to leave open a door to rejoin. Most are not at the end of their natural political career and would hope to contest the next election. If so, they're badly mistaken. Resigning the whip in this way has burned those bridges and they won't be rebuilt until today's version of Militant is again chased out (which given Hatton's return to Labour this week underscores that the tide is still running against them).
Therefore, they are going to have to either retire from active politics or fight the next election under a non-Lab flag - which in turn implies either joining an existing party or starting a new one.
The local elections take place in two and a half months. If the Gang of Seven were to launch a new party today, and appeal to disaffected Labour and other activists to join them, they might have time to make an impact on them but they'll have to move quickly. Similarly, the Newport West by-election offers another opportunity to make an impact in a Labour-held semi-marginal - as might a Peterborough by-election, depending on events there. These are good opportunities scheduled for a time of likely high political drama when the pieces are up in the air and much might be possible.
By not acting, they are letting chances slip and events shape them.0 -
Hush your mouth. Leavers all say that it is unfair that the EU should be favoured just because they are our closest neighbours. They welcome wholeheartedly as many immigrants as possible from all the non-EU nations.nico67 said:EU nationals working in the UK down 61,000 on a year earlier . Non EU nationals up 130,000.
So Brits lose their freedom of movement rights to allow more people in from outside the EU from countries that don’t give us freedom of movement .
Is this what Leavers wanted , more non EU migration !
Brexit becomes more absurd by the day .0 -
Mr. Sandpit, aye, but aren't the clear majority of people and things related to F1 located in the UK anyway?0
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At the moment its just a shell. It hangs on whether or not the next batch of potential recruits, from both parties, makes the leap.david_herdson said:Late to this thread so I imagine all the points have already been made but what the heck, let's make them again.
TIG is not a sustainable position. I don't know whether Mike's right or not with his assertion that "The group they’ve designed has one initial purpose and that was to be a vehicle for them to leave Labour and provide a means for others to follow from the Tories and other parties. This meant that they did not have to have a policy platform."
On the one hand, being a purely negative reaction against the direction of Labour under Corbyn (and, potentially, the Tories handling of Brexit), has its advantages in that people aren't put off by specific policies. However, they might just as easily (or more easily?) be put off by that same lack of policies: why jump into a vacuum? Either TIG develops policies (in which case, MPs thinking of defecting might once again find themselves out on a limb), or alternatively it doesn't (in which case, what future does it have?).
My impression is that the ex-Lab MPs still retain sufficient emotional attachment to Labour that they're trying to leave open a door to rejoin. Most are not at the end of their natural political career and would hope to contest the next election. If so, they're badly mistaken. Resigning the whip in this way has burned those bridges and they won't be rebuilt until today's version of Militant is again chased out (which given Hatton's return to Labour this week underscores that the tide is still running against them).
Therefore, they are going to have to either retire from active politics or fight the next election under a non-Lab flag - which in turn implies either joining an existing party or starting a new one.
The local elections take place in two and a half months. If the Gang of Seven were to launch a new party today, and appeal to disaffected Labour and other activists to join them, they might have time to make an impact on them but they'll have to move quickly. Similarly, the Newport West by-election offers another opportunity to make an impact in a Labour-held semi-marginal - as might a Peterborough by-election, depending on events there. These are good opportunities scheduled for a time of likely high political drama when the pieces are up in the air and much might be possible.
By not acting, they are letting chances slip and events shape them.0 -
Surely Hatton's readmission shows the party is a broad church #PropertyDevelopersForLabourfelix said:
That's correct. Interestingly Mcdonnell much more conciliatory today suggesting they're rattled. The Hatton thing however is grotesque and shows the true direction of travel.SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
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Exactly. Doesn’t mean they’re not happening though.Sean_F said:
Jobs being created don't attract headlines, unless the numbers are huge.Sandpit said:
No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.SouthamObserver said:
The bigger Brexit issue with Swindon is how those who lose their jobs will find new ones at similar skill and pay levels. Where are the new investments going to come from now that we are leaving the single market?CarlottaVance said:
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.
This isn’t a case of whole industries shutting down, it’s a case of some companies losing jobs and other companies adding them.0 -
Like David Herdson, I'm a bit late to the topic on here, but for what it's worth, my take is almost the complete opposite of Mike's. The Independent Seven have certainly made headlines... but they've moved too soon.
My blog:
https://www.lifestuff.xyz/blog/jumping-the-gun
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It would seem one of the less obvious ones. The obvious thing that springs to mind is the increase in bureaucracy and the very tight timings of moving all the equipment for Grand Prix in EU countries. The logistics anyway for this must be very fine tuned regardless of location. I have some bitter experience of trying to get something into a country urgently and it being held up almost to the point where it would have been pointless (eg arriving the day after the race!)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, yesterday Wolff was making grumpy noises about the impact of a no deal departure on F1 teams, but that seemed a bit weird to me. Given 8/10 teams and all the supply chains have built up around here, surely that wouldn't have an impact?
Maybe it would, but at first glance it seems peculiar. What d'you think?0 -
I don't believe anybody really believes Angela Smith's remarks were anything other than a blundering attempt to follow on from the previous panelists unusual use of language regarding skin colour.
That said, I get why Corbynista's have flogged it for all it is worth given the day's events.
Far more importantly, has Soubry gone yet?0 -
The first SQ ones were overweight - and late - as well - which is why the owners (SQ leased them) haven't been able to find buyers. They've retired their first four - the first two of which have been dismantled for spares. Malaysian has withdrawn their A380s from commercial service too. Hamburg & Toulouse didn't cover themselves in glory in the A380 start up.Sandpit said:
Emirates have already said that the latest orders will be replacement aircraft for older A380s. The first few dozen they made were horrendously overweight, limited in passenger numbers, cargo and range as a result.CarlottaVance said:
I'll miss it when its gone - much prefer it to the 350 or 787 in the cheap seats.....bl££dy accountants.....Qatar will be retiring theirs when they get to 10 years old and while Emirates will likely keep them flying a while longer other airlines like SQ may only have them in their fleets for another decade or so. The first one I flew on has already been broken up.Theuniondivvie said:
Wonder how long it'll be till they're having nostalgathons for the Airbus A380?CarlottaVance said:
Yes.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory?
It's all getting very retro:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/10975797038908211200 -
I listened to that discussion and his immediate connection to Nissan and Honda being brexit's fault just confirms his manic obsession to stop brexit. His call for a second referendum and to revoke A50 just affirmed he is so blind to his cause he has nothing useful to contribute to any other political subjecttwistedfirestopper3 said:Adonis on Sky News asked about the TIGS. Immediately blames Honda on Brexit. Calls for A50 to be revoked. I'm not sure if he is a one trick pony or he misheard the question....
He seems to be very tortured
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Yes the Tories have similar traits, if not to quite the degree of Corbyn's Labour.IanB2 said:
Grayling.glw said:
Exactly right, Corbyn's Labour values loyalty over competence. In fact being a blithering idiot is not a bar to high office if you unconditionally support the leader.SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
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Thanks!brendan16 said:
Will Wes Streeting join Mike Gapes in the Tiggers and make Ilford a one party Tigger state?Sunil_Prasannan said:OK, so I've just come home from a holiday in India to some really exciting Party news. Would be interesting to see how many more Labour MPs jump ship in the next few days.
Perhaps they will have to rename Redbridge - as 'not so Red bridge'?
PS Hope you had a nice holiday!
Ilford South is pretty much as safe Labour as you can get - mum and I were debating with our cab driver coming back from Heathrow how much of a personal vote Gapes has. We came to the conclusion - not much!
Ilford North until as recently as 2015 had a Tory MP, Lee Scott. But at GE2015 Wes Streeting won it, and at GE2017 his majority sky-rocketed, making the seat pretty safe.
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It’s a reminder that much (not all) race based outrage is just taking down of people you don’t like. And why is literally a communist woman who represents a literally #fakenews website continuesly on tv?SunnyJim said:I don't believe anybody really believes Angela Smith's remarks were anything other than a blundering attempt to follow on from the previous panelists unusual use of language regarding skin colour.
That said, I get why Corbynista's have flogged it for all it is worth given the day's events.
Far more importantly, has Soubry gone yet?0 -
I have family members who used to be involved in F1 logistics and they are indeed fine-tuned. It was also necessary for quite long discussions with very senior technical people for one race host* would allow their technology in without in-country testing and validation.kjh said:
It would seem one of the less obvious ones. The obvious thing that springs to mind is the increase in bureaucracy and the very tight timings of moving all the equipment for Grand Prix in EU countries. The logistics anyway for this must be very fine tuned. I have some bitter experience of trying to get something into a country urgently and it being held up almost to the point where it would have been pointless (eg arriving the day after the race!)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, yesterday Wolff was making grumpy noises about the impact of a no deal departure on F1 teams, but that seemed a bit weird to me. Given 8/10 teams and all the supply chains have built up around here, surely that wouldn't have an impact?
Maybe it would, but at first glance it seems peculiar. What d'you think?
*Not an EU country.0 -
Latest inflation rate was 1.8% so the lead is 1.6%TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.0 -
The weird thing about this is that if you watch the segment it's extremely strong: She does the folksy midwest deer hunter thing then goes very emotionally hard on shooting victims, and works in a brutal attack on Trump for agreeing to do something then wimping out against the NRA. I think it's the most effective I've seen her. But the result in the print media is a frame of "Other Dems want to do gun control, Klobuchar is thinking about deer hunters", which is utterly disastrous for a Dem primary.Nigelb said:
She was not entirely inspiring...edmundintokyo said:
Speaking of impossible promises, KLOBUCHAR just did a town hall on CNN and refused to take part in the Democratic bidding war. Check out the questioner's sad face at the end:CarlottaVance said:A third of a century ago......
https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1097588071648952325
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/18/amy-klobuchar-cnn-town-hall-1173790
Klobuchar again emphasized that she comes from a “different place” than many of her Democratic primary counterparts when explaining that she always thinks of her “Uncle Dick in the deer stand” when she considers gun control legislation...0 -
matt said:
See “Roger” here for that attitude in action.Sandpit said:
Interesting statement. As we discussed on here yesterday, the car industry globally is in a massive state of flux at the moment - except for at the top end of luxury, performance and motorsport, which are a massive British industry success story.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Hopefully Honda will work with employees and government to minimise the impact on those affected by this closure.
What's immediately clear though, is that a certain element of the #FPBE crowd, particularly on Twitter, are overjoyed at and celebrating anyone who announces job losses. Not a good look.
I have very limited sympahy for people who wanted to keep foreigners out seeing their prejudice backfiring.0 -
"Tonnerre de Brest!"Dura_Ace said:
I had a Multistrada 1200 for a while but crashed the fuck out of it near Brest. I've gone back "home" to MV Agusta now.Theuniondivvie said:
Hillington at the edge of Glasgow had a good chunk of the Merlin production. I visit it reasonably frequently because the Ducati store has relocated there, buts afaik there's no remnant left, or commemoration even.Dura_Ace said:
Most Spitfires were made at Castle Bromwich. Various components for specialist marques like the PRs were made in other parts of the country.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/10409030488920186880 -
He was complaining it would hand Ferrari a large advantage.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, yesterday Wolff was making grumpy noises about the impact of a no deal departure on F1 teams, but that seemed a bit weird to me. Given 8/10 teams and all the supply chains have built up around here, surely that wouldn't have an impact?
Maybe it would, but at first glance it seems peculiar. What d'you think?
Which seems credible.0 -
BMG February poll
https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmgs-westminster-voting-intention-results-february-2019/
Con 38%, Lab 35%, LD 13%, UKIP 5%
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Cool, F4 or something less focused?Dura_Ace said:
I had a Multistrada 1200 for a while but crashed the fuck out of it near Brest. I've gone back "home" to MV Agusta now.Theuniondivvie said:
Hillington at the edge of Glasgow had a good chunk of the Merlin production. I visit it reasonably frequently because the Ducati store has relocated there, buts afaik there's no remnant left, or commemoration even.Dura_Ace said:
Most Spitfires were made at Castle Bromwich. Various components for specialist marques like the PRs were made in other parts of the country.Theuniondivvie said:Is it true that the Swindon Honda plant is on the site of a Spitfire factory? Perhaps it's time for the UK to go full on for the nostalgic reconstruction and innovative jam markets.
https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/1040903048892018688
My joints are getting a bit creaky for sports bikes, and I've reached that age where one looks yearningly at spoked wheels and open face helmets.0 -
Significant true personal votes are rare. I think Norman Lamb has one.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Thanks!brendan16 said:
Will Wes Streeting join Mike Gapes in the Tiggers and make Ilford a one party Tigger state?Sunil_Prasannan said:OK, so I've just come home from a holiday in India to some really exciting Party news. Would be interesting to see how many more Labour MPs jump ship in the next few days.
Perhaps they will have to rename Redbridge - as 'not so Red bridge'?
PS Hope you had a nice holiday!
Ilford South is pretty much as safe Labour as you can get - mum and I were debating with our cab driver coming back from Heathrow how much of a personal vote Gapes has. We came to the conclusion - not much!
Ilford North until as recently as 2015 had a Tory MP, Lee Scott. But at GE2015 Wes Streeting won it, and at GE2017 his majority sky-rocketed, making the seat pretty safe.0
