19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.
Yes, but those electric cars are not going to be built here.
Were they ever going to be? Brexit or no Brexit with free trade/low tariffs you're going to base your plants where they're cheapest. Thats never going to be the UK. We're too expensive facility and labour wise.
What matters is parts and vehicles being able to move swiftly and with no delay at customs to where they are needed. Germany is not cheap labour but is a successful manufacturing economy, as are Japan and South Korea.
Brexit is very poorly timed for the electric vehicle revolution, the restructuring will have been substantially done by the time Brexit is resolved.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
With zero tariffs on EU car imports how likely is it that any Japanese manufacturer will be looking at any European countries for production bases?
It's certainly lower key than the Limehouse Declaration. And, as I recall, there were a lot more positive vibes about then.
I'm inclined to agree with the thread header though. This gives them more options at a time when politics is in a state of flux.
I don't think it will go anywhere though. They seem more Unionist Free Traders or National Labour to me than Liberal Unionist (which was the last splitter party I can think of to have a long and meaningful existence). The best they can realistically hope for is to be Peelites moderating a new Liberal party.
From their website, they look like Orange Bookers to me. Their Blairite emphasis on competition not cooperation doesn't appeal to me. And they are even less revolutionary that the LibDems.
People are yearning for a big change - hence the vote for Brexit and the appeal of Corbyn. This lot aren't going anywhere.
I think you're right, except in the arena of politics itself, where a big change agenda is up for grabs. The SDP was similar in the 1980s but traded successfully under the slogan "breaking the mould" for quite a while.
Yes I remember it well. The SDP attracted Charles Kennedy. Vince Cable and many others.I recruited several SDP members myself, some of whom are still friends.
I think the difference is the appeal of Jenkins, Williams and Owen who were heavyweight ex-ministers. This lot are lightweights.
Kendall is Key.
I dont think so, and neither does she look like quitting.
It's certainly lower key than the Limehouse Declaration. And, as I recall, there were a lot more positive vibes about then.
I'm inclined to agree with the thread header though. This gives them more options at a time when politics is in a state of flux.
I don't think it will go anywhere though. They seem more Unionist Free Traders or National Labour to me than Liberal Unionist (which was the last splitter party I can think of to have a long and meaningful existence). The best they can realistically hope for is to be Peelites moderating a new Liberal party.
From their website, they look like Orange Bookers to me. Their Blairite emphasis on competition not cooperation doesn't appeal to me. And they are even less revolutionary that the LibDems.
People are yearning for a big change - hence the vote for Brexit and the appeal of Corbyn. This lot aren't going anywhere.
I think you're right, except in the arena of politics itself, where a big change agenda is up for grabs. The SDP was similar in the 1980s but traded successfully under the slogan "breaking the mould" for quite a while.
Yes I remember it well. The SDP attracted Charles Kennedy. Vince Cable and many others.I recruited several SDP members myself, some of whom are still friends.
I think the difference is the appeal of Jenkins, Williams and Owen who were heavyweight ex-ministers. This lot are lightweights.
Apart from Cooper and Benn, who would you descibe as potential 'heavyweights' in the labour party currently. These are still good people, and compare well to anyone in the Tories at the moment.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.
Yes, but those electric cars are not going to be built here.
I think that is the key point as it mirrors the Nissan story. They are gradually moving amid the cover of electric cars - if the UK is so attractive post Brexit why not build those electric or hydrogen cars here. I'm afraid heads are being stuck in the sand at the mment.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
The subject was well covered on late nite BBC news yesterday.
Honda doubtless wished to close Swindon down but that's always problematic and involves considerable loss of face and goodwill. Mrs Thatcher made great play of the UK being an excellent staging post for Europe back in 1982 when she was courting Japanese business. Now that we are leaving, it's easy for the Japanese to say that things have changed so they are not bound by earlier commitments. So Brexit isn't the reason, but does provide a convenient excuse.
I think over the coming months we will see a lot of foreign firms make their excuses and leave.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
With zero tariffs on EU car imports how likely is it that any Japanese manufacturer will be looking at any European countries for production bases?
Yep, I think you have to wonder if the EU has done massive damage to it own manufacturing industry here.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.
Yes, but those electric cars are not going to be built here.
Were they ever going to be? Brexit or no Brexit with free trade/low tariffs you're going to base your plants where they're cheapest. Thats never going to be the UK. We're too expensive facility and labour wise.
And leaving the EU in that scenario helps how exactly?
I think the following quote from the FT Tokyo correspondent probably sums it up best:
"More importantly, it (Brexit) gives a company that hates to close factories or sack people a license to act."
Brexit is a convenient excuse for some companies to cover up sins. So, if you are FlyBmi for example, it is far easier to blame Brexit than the fact your management may not have been the best and your load factor was sub-industry performance. You saw the same thing after 9/11 - LVMH issued a profit warning the day.
Where Brexit probably has had an impact is the uncertainty element. Since nobody knows what course it will take, it is hard to plan. That is probably more of an issue than whether it is No Deal, Norway Plus, May's deal etc
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
And there are good commercial reasons for not blaming Brexit publicly. Could... would..... get an incredibly bad press in Brexit-supporting media. Much better to be able to place the responsibility elsewhere.
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
On Betfair next GE 'most seats' for 'Other' is at 20. On the face of it not attractive odds, but it could be a good trading bet if we do enter a period of political mania.
I don't think so, one to have backed in the hundreds, 1-20 is probably a good lay price if you've already done so.
You could have said the same about JRM as next Tory leader, yet he came right in to 6 or 7
Yes, I have a happy red number against him.
Me too. The point being that our job is to identify when the market is likely to be wrong, and the time point at which it is likely to be the most wrong. On most seats for 'other' you'd be mad to lay it now.
If you think 20s is a good trading bet, there's plenty up there for you to take including some of mine.
I'd really like this group to succeed, form a government, introduce PR, reform parliament, keep us in the EU etc. Change politics. But they just don't have what it takes. And Liz Kendall isn't the answer! If it were Yvette Cooper (+ husband) and Lisa Nandy then you'd be talking.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Jeremy Corbyn could sign up to that, and so could Theresa May.
@JohnMannMP: Those celebrating their departure are people who are not spending time on the doorstep listening to voters. Every week brilliant activists are quietly quitting, seeing the Labour Party as not for them. Tom Watson is right in his analysis.
Another day of Leavers gravely informing us that Honda has Nothing To Do With Brexit.
I'd have a scintilla more respect for Leavers if they accepted from time to time that their mad decision would have at least some negative consequences.
Corbyn might be present at a signing, but he wouldn't be involved.
May would delay a decision to contemplate whether or not the possibility of signing would be in the national/Conservative/her/Brussels' interest, and then postpone the planned meeting to further discuss the matter.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Jeremy Corbyn could sign up to that, and so could Theresa May.
Clearly its designed to be attractive but vague. Nevertheless backing business and international alliances is clearly a challenge to the policy of both major parties, a new economy to the Tories and loving our country to Labour. You have to read a little below the line.
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
They need a second and larger wave of MPs within days or they will be forgotten.
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.
The changes will take decades, but the effects will be much quicker than that. We already see that diesel has lost consumer confidence, as the owners get penalised for owning them and the resell value is poor. A similar thing will happen to petrol cars quiet soon I'm sure. So whatever timescales the large automotive companies are planning for electric vehicles and automated driving it won't be fast enough for the consumer. A lot of very large companies are going to be in big trouble as their customers decide to not buy new cars, and to hold on to their current cars, until they can buy that cheap good electric car that the industry says is just around the corner.
I expect we will see a lot more news like today's news from Honda.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
With zero tariffs on EU car imports how likely is it that any Japanese manufacturer will be looking at any European countries for production bases?
Yep, I think you have to wonder if the EU has done massive damage to it own manufacturing industry here.
Apart from in Germany, where they'll still manufacture German branded cars to sell to Japan.
Most Japanese car production in Europe is in England and Spain, and who cares about them?
Such is the nature of most of the EU's trade deals, they're designed explicitly to benefit Germany and France. Which is why any form of customs union with the EU after we leave is the worst of all worlds.
Edit: Of course the British cars that will become 10% cheaper in Japan should also increase their sales, and most of these are high-end cars. But Bentley and McLaren adding a few hundred jobs here and there doesn't seem to generate the same sort of headlines.
It's certainly lower key than the Limehouse Declaration. And, as I recall, there were a lot more positive vibes about then.
I'm inclined to agree with the thread header though. This gives them more options at a time when politics is in a state of flux.
I don't think it will go anywhere though. They seem more Unionist Free Traders or National Labour to me than Liberal Unionist (which was the last splitter party I can think of to have a long and meaningful existence). The best they can realistically hope for is to be Peelites moderating a new Liberal party.
From their website, they look like Orange Bookers to me. Their Blairite emphasis on competition not cooperation doesn't appeal to me. And they are even less revolutionary that the LibDems.
People are yearning for a big change - hence the vote for Brexit and the appeal of Corbyn. This lot aren't going anywhere.
I think you're right, except in the arena of politics itself, where a big change agenda is up for grabs. The SDP was similar in the 1980s but traded successfully under the slogan "breaking the mould" for quite a while.
Yes I remember it well. The SDP attracted Charles Kennedy. Vince Cable and many others.I recruited several SDP members myself, some of whom are still friends.
I think the difference is the appeal of Jenkins, Williams and Owen who were heavyweight ex-ministers. This lot are lightweights.
Apart from Cooper and Benn, who would you descibe as potential 'heavyweights' in the labour party currently. These are still good people, and compare well to anyone in the Tories at the moment.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
With zero tariffs on EU car imports how likely is it that any Japanese manufacturer will be looking at any European countries for production bases?
Indeed. This whole episode reminds me of the West Wing 'Free trade crates better, higher paying jobs' episode where Josh Lyman gets annoyed because a trade deal is followed by the moving of manufacturing jobs abroad....
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.
Yes, but those electric cars are not going to be built here.
I think that is the key point as it mirrors the Nissan story. They are gradually moving amid the cover of electric cars - if the UK is so attractive post Brexit why not build those electric or hydrogen cars here. I'm afraid heads are being stuck in the sand at the mment.
Another comment the FT Tokyo correspondent had which is also worth considering is when he said "I also wonder when we’ll hear the first UK voices calling for Trump-style protectionism".
One obvious way is to impose tariffs. But a subtler way is to copy the EU textbook - if you cant sell goods and services into the EU market that don't meet the requirements, why shouldn't the UK take a similar tack and say you can't sell products and services into the UK market that don't meet ours? Companies are then left with deciding whether to not sell into the UK at all or forced to invest here in order to service the market (which is why there is talk, for example, of German asset managers opening up operations in London post-Brexit).
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
With zero tariffs on EU car imports how likely is it that any Japanese manufacturer will be looking at any European countries for production bases?
On Betfair next GE 'most seats' for 'Other' is at 20. On the face of it not attractive odds, but it could be a good trading bet if we do enter a period of political mania.
I don't think so, one to have backed in the hundreds, 1-20 is probably a good lay price if you've already done so.
You could have said the same about JRM as next Tory leader, yet he came right in to 6 or 7
Yes, I have a happy red number against him.
Me too. The point being that our job is to identify when the market is likely to be wrong, and the time point at which it is likely to be the most wrong. On most seats for 'other' you'd be mad to lay it now.
If you think 20s is a good trading bet, there's plenty up there for you to take including some of mine.
I'd really like this group to succeed, form a government, introduce PR, reform parliament, keep us in the EU etc. Change politics. But they just don't have what it takes. And Liz Kendall isn't the answer! If it were Yvette Cooper (+ husband) and Lisa Nandy then you'd be talking.
I have taken some from Betfair, thanks. This is going to be one where the market could very easily overshoot by a considerable margin.
The question is how much snow the rock can gather coming down the hill. If it gathers in sufficient Labour MPs that the party is clearly collapsing, Cooper coming across becomes a possibility. I don't think it'll get that far, but it is at the upper end of possibilities.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Jeremy Corbyn could sign up to that, and so could Theresa May.
Jeremy Corbyn does not support our international alliances.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Which party would claim "We hate our country. We distrust its people. We want to go it alone. We are happy with our strong and stable economy. We hate motherhood and apple pie. These are our values"?
Yep, I think you have to wonder if the EU has done massive damage to it own manufacturing industry here.
Ironic if these global FTAs end up recreating all the different local brands - maybe the big multinational groups were just the result of protectionism?
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Which party would claim "We hate our country. We distrust its people. We want to go it alone. We are happy with our strong and stable economy. We hate motherhood and apple pie. These are our values"?
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Jeremy Corbyn could sign up to that, and so could Theresa May.
Jeremy Corbyn does not support our international alliances.
Neither does Theresa May, in economic alliances anyway.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Before Brexit and Corbyn it would have been bland, now "we back business" and "we support our international alliances" are way out there on the extreme fringe.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Faced with the Brexit loons on the one hand and the rabid Corbynistas on the other, maybe a bit of bland might slip down well right now?
It's certainly lower key than the Limehouse Declaration. And, as I recall, there were a lot more positive vibes about then.
I'm inclined to agree with the thread header though. This gives them more options at a time when politics is in a state of flux.
I don't think it will go anywhere though. They seem more Unionist Free Traders or National Labour to me than Liberal Unionist (which was the last splitter party I can think of to have a long and meaningful existence). The best they can realistically hope for is to be Peelites moderating a new Liberal party.
From their website, they look like Orange Bookers to me. Their Blairite emphasis on competition not cooperation doesn't appeal to me. And they are even less revolutionary that the LibDems.
People are yearning for a big change - hence the vote for Brexit and the appeal of Corbyn. This lot aren't going anywhere.
I think you're right, except in the arena of politics itself, where a big change agenda is up for grabs. The SDP was similar in the 1980s but traded successfully under the slogan "breaking the mould" for quite a while.
Yes I remember it well. The SDP attracted Charles Kennedy. Vince Cable and many others.I recruited several SDP members myself, some of whom are still friends.
I think the difference is the appeal of Jenkins, Williams and Owen who were heavyweight ex-ministers. This lot are lightweights.
Apart from Cooper and Benn, who would you descibe as potential 'heavyweights' in the labour party currently. These are still good people, and compare well to anyone in the Tories at the moment.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
Turkey isn’t closing. Read the statement. They’re going to find something else to do with it once the current model reaches EOL.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
The subject was well covered on late nite BBC news yesterday.
Honda doubtless wished to close Swindon down but that's always problematic and involves considerable loss of face and goodwill. Mrs Thatcher made great play of the UK being an excellent staging post for Europe back in 1982 when she was courting Japanese business. Now that we are leaving, it's easy for the Japanese to say that things have changed so they are not bound by earlier commitments. So Brexit isn't the reason, but does provide a convenient excuse.
I think over the coming months we will see a lot of foreign firms make their excuses and leave.
I don't doubt that the months of uncertainty is having an effect.
As is the exposure of Westminster being filled with posturing arseholes and Whitehall being filled with self-satisfied incompetents.
On Betfair next GE 'most seats' for 'Other' is at 20. On the face of it not attractive odds, but it could be a good trading bet if we do enter a period of political mania.
I don't think so, one to have backed in the hundreds, 1-20 is probably a good lay price if you've already done so.
You could have said the same about JRM as next Tory leader, yet he came right in to 6 or 7
Yes, I have a happy red number against him.
Me too. The point being that our job is to identify when the market is likely to be wrong, and the time point at which it is likely to be the most wrong. On most seats for 'other' you'd be mad to lay it now.
If you think 20s is a good trading bet, there's plenty up there for you to take including some of mine.
I'd really like this group to succeed, form a government, introduce PR, reform parliament, keep us in the EU etc. Change politics. But they just don't have what it takes. And Liz Kendall isn't the answer! If it were Yvette Cooper (+ husband) and Lisa Nandy then you'd be talking.
I have taken some from Betfair, thanks. This is going to be one where the market could very easily overshoot by a considerable margin.
The question is how much snow the rock can gather coming down the hill. If it gathers in sufficient Labour MPs that the party is clearly collapsing, Cooper coming across becomes a possibility. I don't think it'll get that far, but it is at the upper end of possibilities.
On Betfair next GE 'most seats' for 'Other' is at 20. On the face of it not attractive odds, but it could be a good trading bet if we do enter a period of political mania.
I don't think so, one to have backed in the hundreds, 1-20 is probably a good lay price if you've already done so.
You could have said the same about JRM as next Tory leader, yet he came right in to 6 or 7
Yes, I have a happy red number against him.
Me too. The point being that our job is to identify when the market is likely to be wrong, and the time point at which it is likely to be the most wrong. On most seats for 'other' you'd be mad to lay it now.
If you think 20s is a good trading bet, there's plenty up there for you to take including some of mine.
I'd really like this group to succeed, form a government, introduce PR, reform parliament, keep us in the EU etc. Change politics. But they just don't have what it takes. And Liz Kendall isn't the answer! If it were Yvette Cooper (+ husband) and Lisa Nandy then you'd be talking.
I have taken some from Betfair, thanks. This is going to be one where the market could very easily overshoot by a considerable margin.
The question is how much snow the rock can gather coming down the hill. If it gathers in sufficient Labour MPs that the party is clearly collapsing, Cooper coming across becomes a possibility. I don't think it'll get that far, but it is at the upper end of possibilities.
You haven't taken enough on Betfair! The amount laid at 20s is increasing. Mine is still there.
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
You're working on a 24-hour rolling news schedule there, Nick. Give it time. I think it is a great tactic. Nice and slowly, let it evolve around events rather than be hostage to them. As for the timing, I disagree with you also (you said yesterday that the launch should have been "after" Brexit). This puts them right at the heart of the debate and every Brexit twist and turn is seen through the prism of their actions.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
Turkey isn’t closing. Read the statement. They’re going to find something else to do with it once the current model reaches EOL.
Yes, the "Turkey is closing too" line seems to have been spin from the local Brexiteer MP.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
The subject was well covered on late nite BBC news yesterday.
Honda doubtless wished to close Swindon down but that's always problematic and involves considerable loss of face and goodwill. Mrs Thatcher made great play of the UK being an excellent staging post for Europe back in 1982 when she was courting Japanese business. Now that we are leaving, it's easy for the Japanese to say that things have changed so they are not bound by earlier commitments. So Brexit isn't the reason, but does provide a convenient excuse.
I think over the coming months we will see a lot of foreign firms make their excuses and leave.
I don't doubt that the months of uncertainty is having an effect.
As is the exposure of Westminster being filled with posturing arseholes and Whitehall being filled with self-satisfied incompetents.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
The subject was well covered on late nite BBC news yesterday.
Honda doubtless wished to close Swindon down but that's always problematic and involves considerable loss of face and goodwill. Mrs Thatcher made great play of the UK being an excellent staging post for Europe back in 1982 when she was courting Japanese business. Now that we are leaving, it's easy for the Japanese to say that things have changed so they are not bound by earlier commitments. So Brexit isn't the reason, but does provide a convenient excuse.
I think over the coming months we will see a lot of foreign firms make their excuses and leave.
I don't doubt that the months of uncertainty is having an effect.
As is the exposure of Westminster being filled with posturing arseholes and Whitehall being filled with self-satisfied incompetents.
To be fair, running down the automotive industry was part of the Leave plan.
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.
The changes will take decades, but the effects will be much quicker than that. We already see that diesel has lost consumer confidence, as the owners get penalised for owning them and the resell value is poor. A similar thing will happen to petrol cars quiet soon I'm sure. So whatever timescales the large automotive companies are planning for electric vehicles and automated driving it won't be fast enough for the consumer. A lot of very large companies are going to be in big trouble as their customers decide to not buy new cars, and to hold on to their current cars, until they can buy that cheap good electric car that the industry says is just around the corner.
I expect we will see a lot more news like today's news from Honda.
+1
The best selling car in the USA last quarter was the Tesla Model 3, as their factory ramps up production after a few teething problems. They have a massive backlog of orders and will start shipping them to Europe by the end of Q1. While what they're shipping now are $45-55k Model 3 variants, they've promised $35k cars coming soon which will properly turn the industry upside-down.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
With zero tariffs on EU car imports how likely is it that any Japanese manufacturer will be looking at any European countries for production bases?
Nissan is substantially owned by Renault.
Wonder how long that will last though, it can't be easy to keep top talent working the Japan part of the venture if everybody's scared they're going to get arrested on trumped up charges and interrogated for 2 months without the right to a lawyer...
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
And it is at least partly Brexit.
The determination of Brexiters to deny the loud sucking noise of investment leaving these shores is pathological.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Jeremy Corbyn could sign up to that, and so could Theresa May.
Jeremy Corbyn does not support our international alliances.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Faced with the Brexit loons on the one hand and the rabid Corbynistas on the other, maybe a bit of bland might slip down well right now?
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Which party would claim "We hate our country. We distrust its people. We want to go it alone. We are happy with our strong and stable economy. We hate motherhood and apple pie. These are our values"?
The luxury TIG have here is to set their slogan against others' actions that clearly contradict elements of this. The slogan looks pretty effective to me.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Which party would claim "We hate our country. We distrust its people. We want to go it alone. We are happy with our strong and stable economy. We hate motherhood and apple pie. These are our values"?
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Which party would claim "We hate our country. We distrust its people. We want to go it alone. We are happy with our strong and stable economy. We hate motherhood and apple pie. These are our values"?
John Rees, chief executive of Stop the War (chairman: J. B. Corbyn):
Socialists should unconditionally stand with the oppressed against the oppressor, even if the people who run the oppressed country are undemocratic and persecute minorities, like Saddam Hussein.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
And it is at least partly Brexit.
The determination of Brexiters to deny the loud sucking noise of investment leaving these shores is pathological.
They don't care. They would eat grass so long as Britain had no links with the EU and could be vile to foreigners.
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn Clique
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Faced with the Brexit loons on the one hand and the rabid Corbynistas on the other, maybe a bit of bland might slip down well right now?
Nope, bring on the chaos. Much more fun.
London Loughborough's Burning, eh? Would have thought that would not be up your street.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Faced with the Brexit loons on the one hand and the rabid Corbynistas on the other, maybe a bit of bland might slip down well right now?
Nope, bring on the chaos. Much more fun.
London Loughborough's Burning, eh? Would have thought that would not be up your street.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
They'll wait and see what the post-Brexit offer from Government will be. And free of EU regulation, that package can be better tailor-made to answer the question "what do you need from us?"
Doesn't look to me as though Honda has decided to wait and see.
You're working on a 24-hour rolling news schedule there, Nick. Give it time. I think it is a great tactic. Nice and slowly, let it evolve around events rather than be hostage to them. As for the timing, I disagree with you also (you said yesterday that the launch should have been "after" Brexit). This puts them right at the heart of the debate and every Brexit twist and turn is seen through the prism of their actions.
You might be right, but I think by next week (indeed by tomorrow) they'll be struggling to get any attention at all unless they attract more significant defectors at once.
But who knows? Wouldn't claim to. Very interesting times!
Speaking of impossible promises, KLOBUCHAR just did a town hall on CNN and refused to take part in the Democratic bidding war. Check out the questioner's sad face at the end: https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
They'll wait and see what the post-Brexit offer from Government will be. And free of EU regulation, that package can be better tailor-made to answer the question "what do you need from us?"
I thought May had asked the Japanese just that at the start of the Brexit process. How did that go ?
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
The subject was well covered on late nite BBC news yesterday.
Honda doubtless wished to close Swindon down but that's always problematic and involves considerable loss of face and goodwill. Mrs Thatcher made great play of the UK being an excellent staging post for Europe back in 1982 when she was courting Japanese business. Now that we are leaving, it's easy for the Japanese to say that things have changed so they are not bound by earlier commitments. So Brexit isn't the reason, but does provide a convenient excuse.
I think over the coming months we will see a lot of foreign firms make their excuses and leave.
I don't doubt that the months of uncertainty is having an effect.
As is the exposure of Westminster being filled with posturing arseholes and Whitehall being filled with self-satisfied incompetents.
To be fair, running down the automotive industry was part of the Leave plan.
Interesting. So either we didn't have a plan, or we did, and it was the one widely disowned by the rest of the Leave side during and since the referendum.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
The subject was well covered on late nite BBC news yesterday.
Honda doubtless wished to close Swindon down but that's always problematic and involves considerable loss of face and goodwill. Mrs Thatcher made great play of the UK being an excellent staging post for Europe back in 1982 when she was courting Japanese business. Now that we are leaving, it's easy for the Japanese to say that things have changed so they are not bound by earlier commitments. So Brexit isn't the reason, but does provide a convenient excuse.
I think over the coming months we will see a lot of foreign firms make their excuses and leave.
I don't doubt that the months of uncertainty is having an effect.
As is the exposure of Westminster being filled with posturing arseholes and Whitehall being filled with self-satisfied incompetents.
To be fair, running down the automotive industry was part of the Leave plan.
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
Give it up. Everyone thinks it's Brexit and perception is reality.
"Everyone"?
Guess that's why Turkey is closing too.
Even the FT Tokyo correspondent doesn't think the closure of a sub-scale loss making plant is purely down to Brexit.....
The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes...
Setting aside the poor wording, how likely do you think it might be that Honda - or any other given Japanese manufacturer - is thinking of the UK as their European production base for electric vehicle manufacturing post Brexit ?
With zero tariffs on EU car imports how likely is it that any Japanese manufacturer will be looking at any European countries for production bases?
26% of Labour voters saying the reason for the breakaway is anti-semitism. So no biggy then, as we have been told by Corbyn's apologists for months.... They have this touching faith that voters don't live in the real world either.
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
If you are holding Toynbee up as the arbiter of anything, I suggest you're losing your grip.
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn Clique
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.
So if you were looking to set up electric car production would you do it in the biggest single market in the world or in a much smaller market nearby run by people who don't like foreigners?
As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
I dont think so, and neither does she look like quitting.
Personal closeness is more relevant to politicians than people think. Umunna and Corbyn have I believe never got on at any level - absolutely chalk and cheese. Kendall and Corbyn are friends. It doesn't make defection inconceivable, but it makes it harder.
Friendship is in most people I think largely separate from belief - the MP I liked best in my 13 years was Oliver Letwin, whose views on economics and Europe were a zillion miles from mine.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Faced with the Brexit loons on the one hand and the rabid Corbynistas on the other, maybe a bit of bland might slip down well right now?
Nope, bring on the chaos. Much more fun.
London Loughborough's Burning, eh? Would have thought that would not be up your street.
Interesting. So either we didn't have a plan, or we did, and it was the one widely disowned by the rest of the Leave side during and since the referendum.
Speaking of impossible promises, KLOBUCHAR just did a town hall on CNN and refused to take part in the Democratic bidding war. Check out the questioner's sad face at the end: https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
She was not entirely inspiring...
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/18/amy-klobuchar-cnn-town-hall-1173790 Klobuchar again emphasized that she comes from a “different place” than many of her Democratic primary counterparts when explaining that she always thinks of her “Uncle Dick in the deer stand” when she considers gun control legislation...
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
You're working on a 24-hour rolling news schedule there, Nick. Give it time. I think it is a great tactic. Nice and slowly, let it evolve around events rather than be hostage to them. As for the timing, I disagree with you also (you said yesterday that the launch should have been "after" Brexit). This puts them right at the heart of the debate and every Brexit twist and turn is seen through the prism of their actions.
The timing is deliberate, IMO. It gives others time and space to be seen to be doing all they can to prevent a schism. When the leadership demonstrates it is not interested in preventing one, more will leave with immense sadness, saying Labour is not the party they joined. It is now the party of Derek Hatton and the far left.
The best selling car in the USA last quarter was the Tesla Model 3, as their factory ramps up production after a few teething problems. They have a massive backlog of orders and will start shipping them to Europe by the end of Q1. While what they're shipping now are $45-55k Model 3 variants, they've promised $35k cars coming soon which will properly turn the industry upside-down.
One large technological change can totally disrupt an industry, but the automotive sector is facing two more or less simultaneously. The first is electric vehicles, and the second automated driving (ranging from driving assistance all the way up to full autonomy). If similar scale technological changes tell us anything about industry it is that a lot of companies do not survive such changes. They go bust, they merge, they get taken over, or they get broken up.
Brexit does not help, but car companies are facing a catacylsm (or two) irrespective of Brexit.
On the Tiggers, my sources told me last week that a group of Labour *and* Tory MPs would breakaway very soon. Was in fact supposed to be last week but for the chaos of the Brexit vote.
If my source is correct, the idea is now to snowball more and more defections and form some kind of alliance with the Lib Dems. Also, neither Chuka nor Berger are expected to be leader...
It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Faced with the Brexit loons on the one hand and the rabid Corbynistas on the other, maybe a bit of bland might slip down well right now?
Nope, bring on the chaos. Much more fun.
London Loughborough's Burning, eh? Would have thought that would not be up your street.
On the Tiggers, my sources told me last week that a group of Labour *and* Tory MPs would breakaway very soon. Was in fact supposed to be last week but for the chaos of the Brexit vote.
If my source is correct, the idea is now to snowball more and more defections and form some kind of alliance with the Lib Dems. Also, neither Chuka nor Berger are expected to be leader...
Speaking of impossible promises, KLOBUCHAR just did a town hall on CNN and refused to take part in the Democratic bidding war. Check out the questioner's sad face at the end: https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
Thats the problem the Democrats have. AOC and her ilk are going to push any 2020 runner to the more extreme end of policy, making Trumps run easiler.
It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
At the moment they are lacking a critical mass. The SDP managed because they had Roy, Owen, Shirley and,,,the other one (sorry Bill). The current leadership of the Independents is nothing like that profile. Most of them have spent the last 2-3 years sulking in their tents with minimal media attention.
This could have been offset by numbers but 7 is at least 35 too small. They need others to sign up, ideally (from their point of view) including some Tories and they need this quickly. At the moment they are in danger of simply disappearing.
My provisional view is that this is going to be a zephyr in a thimble.
Polly Toynbee (who must have been a potential recruit) is scathing about them today on much the same grounds, and because their timing risks the Brexit-delaying moves. Unlike Mike I think their policy vacuum is a serious mistake - they aren't offering a banner to rally around, merely saying they're unhappy with Corbyn and Labour. Labour supporters say oh well, goodbye; non-Labour supporters say quite right, sound judgment, but there is no obvious reason to actually join up with them.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
I think you underestimate the desire for something in-between the ERG and The Corbyn Clique
Yet the Lib Dems and Greens can't fill that void?
As has been identified, the gap in the market isn't for a strongly liberal party, which is always a minority position, but for a sensible but reforming centrist party with what you might call more traditional values. So far TIG appear to be trying to position themselves in that space.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Which party would claim "We hate our country. We distrust its people. We want to go it alone. We are happy with our strong and stable economy. We hate motherhood and apple pie. These are our values"?
The luxury TIG have here is to set their slogan against others' actions that clearly contradict elements of this. The slogan looks pretty effective to me.
The slogans could in general be said by Brexiteers. TIG's central plank is remaining in the EU and a rerun referendum. Which to lots of people sounds like 'don't believe in the people until they happen to agree with you, and the old EU dominated economy was just fine thanks'.
Having said that, these are brave and good people who, sadly in some cases, will stand little chance of having a future in politics. Umunna and Luciana Berger especially deserve better.
From TIG: We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Bland.
Faced with the Brexit loons on the one hand and the rabid Corbynistas on the other, maybe a bit of bland might slip down well right now?
Nope, bring on the chaos. Much more fun.
London Loughborough's Burning, eh? Would have thought that would not be up your street.
I've not lived or worked in Loughborough for a long time, but it is my nearest town. A bit of urban warfare might smarten the place up.
The A6 can be the front line.
Plenty of empty shops to hide in. Burton's Menswear has gone for, well, a burton recently. Hell, even Brighthouse couldn't tempt enough people across their threshold to pay for a 55 inch Samsung in handy weekly cash payments. At least all the tanks and technicals will be clean-there is a hand car wash on every street.
It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
Where would Labour be if it didn't have at least a few public schoolboys on the front bench? Someone for Seumus to discuss the relative merits of eton vs rugby (or indeed Winchester) fives with.
It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
Do any of those four actually want to be in the shadow Cabinet?
It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
I quite like Gardiner.
But, that said, maybe the church became a bit too broad. Both major parties might have benefitted from taking a bit more care about their drift toward the extremes.
It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
Exactly right, Corbyn's Labour values loyalty over competence. In fact being a blithering idiot is not a bar to high office if you unconditionally support the leader.
As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces me
Bbc5 live they’ve got someone called Rachel something. Lays into Angela smith for her husband having some mysterious investments in private water, when thrown back about Corbyn’s son renting out his former housing associating to Airbnb she said “that’s totall different” guffaws can be heard in the studio. She also repeated the nonsense about the website been purchased in 2015.
It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
Exactly right, Corbyn's Labour values loyalty over competence. In fact being a blithering idiot is not a bar to high office if you unconditionally support the leader.
As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces me
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?
As is typical in this demented media age, Angela Smith’s brain freeze (which makes a kind of sense in context) is wilfully construed as a racist slur by her opponents.
Is there a word for people like Owen Jones who bandy about accusations of racism in bad faith?
How does what she said make any sense? I’ve seen the clip that supposedly provides context, can’t say it convinces me
You do realise that makes *you* the racist, don’t you?
On the Tiggers, my sources told me last week that a group of Labour *and* Tory MPs would breakaway very soon. Was in fact supposed to be last week but for the chaos of the Brexit vote.
If my source is correct, the idea is now to snowball more and more defections and form some kind of alliance with the Lib Dems. Also, neither Chuka nor Berger are expected to be leader...
That’s in line with what was suggested in the media yesterday. The Indys are certainly hoping to get a couple of Conservatives on board too, but I think Nick Palmer is right that if they don’t have someone joining them every couple of days to keep them in the news, then we could be looking at a damp squib.
One thing not mentioned so far is councillors and local party leaders - the SDP got quite a lot of them to defect, which helped with grassroots organising, delivering leaflets etc. Without an actual party organisation that’s difficult. With no Short Money where is a million or two going to come from to set up an office?
Comments
Brexit is very poorly timed for the electric vehicle revolution, the restructuring will have been substantially done by the time Brexit is resolved.
We love our country. We believe in its people. We back business. We support our international alliances. We want a new economy. These are our values.
Honda doubtless wished to close Swindon down but that's always problematic and involves considerable loss of face and goodwill. Mrs Thatcher made great play of the UK being an excellent staging post for Europe back in 1982 when she was courting Japanese business. Now that we are leaving, it's easy for the Japanese to say that things have changed so they are not bound by earlier commitments. So Brexit isn't the reason, but does provide a convenient excuse.
I think over the coming months we will see a lot of foreign firms make their excuses and leave.
"More importantly, it (Brexit) gives a company that hates to close factories or sack people a license to act."
Brexit is a convenient excuse for some companies to cover up sins. So, if you are FlyBmi for example, it is far easier to blame Brexit than the fact your management may not have been the best and your load factor was sub-industry performance. You saw the same thing after 9/11 - LVMH issued a profit warning the day.
Where Brexit probably has had an impact is the uncertainty element. Since nobody knows what course it will take, it is hard to plan. That is probably more of an issue than whether it is No Deal, Norway Plus, May's deal etc
Much better to be able to place the responsibility elsewhere.
Vince was quite cool about them too, I noticed, and conversely they said at the press conference that they weren't joining the LibDems because they lacked credibility. What we appear to have is as much a centre ground split as a split in the big parties.
I'd really like this group to succeed, form a government, introduce PR, reform parliament, keep us in the EU etc. Change politics. But they just don't have what it takes. And Liz Kendall isn't the answer! If it were Yvette Cooper (+ husband) and Lisa Nandy then you'd be talking.
I'd have a scintilla more respect for Leavers if they accepted from time to time that their mad decision would have at least some negative consequences.
Corbyn might be present at a signing, but he wouldn't be involved.
May would delay a decision to contemplate whether or not the possibility of signing would be in the national/Conservative/her/Brussels' interest, and then postpone the planned meeting to further discuss the matter.
'Where other than the TIG can 'REMAIN' MPs go'?
.......and there are up to 450 of them
I expect we will see a lot more news like today's news from Honda.
Most Japanese car production in Europe is in England and Spain, and who cares about them?
Such is the nature of most of the EU's trade deals, they're designed explicitly to benefit Germany and France. Which is why any form of customs union with the EU after we leave is the worst of all worlds.
Edit: Of course the British cars that will become 10% cheaper in Japan should also increase their sales, and most of these are high-end cars. But Bentley and McLaren adding a few hundred jobs here and there doesn't seem to generate the same sort of headlines.
One obvious way is to impose tariffs. But a subtler way is to copy the EU textbook - if you cant sell goods and services into the EU market that don't meet the requirements, why shouldn't the UK take a similar tack and say you can't sell products and services into the UK market that don't meet ours? Companies are then left with deciding whether to not sell into the UK at all or forced to invest here in order to service the market (which is why there is talk, for example, of German asset managers opening up operations in London post-Brexit).
The question is how much snow the rock can gather coming down the hill. If it gathers in sufficient Labour MPs that the party is clearly collapsing, Cooper coming across becomes a possibility. I don't think it'll get that far, but it is at the upper end of possibilities.
https://twitter.com/stvnews/status/1097753547976962048?s=21
https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1097588071648952325
(If he does, I want my vote back!)
As is the exposure of Westminster being filled with posturing arseholes and Whitehall being filled with self-satisfied incompetents.
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1097775940065812481
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1097544658945802240?s=19
The best selling car in the USA last quarter was the Tesla Model 3, as their factory ramps up production after a few teething problems. They have a massive backlog of orders and will start shipping them to Europe by the end of Q1. While what they're shipping now are $45-55k Model 3 variants, they've promised $35k cars coming soon which will properly turn the industry upside-down.
The determination of Brexiters to deny the loud sucking noise of investment leaving these shores is pathological.
Socialists should unconditionally stand with the oppressed against the oppressor, even if the people who run the oppressed country are undemocratic and persecute minorities, like Saddam Hussein.
Does that come close enough?
Have a good day.
LondonLoughborough's Burning, eh? Would have thought that would not be up your street.But who knows? Wouldn't claim to. Very interesting times!
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1097707758521143296
I'm not sure how "No we can't" is going to fly as a political message, but we'll see.
Good to know.
The amusing part of the 'Singapore-on-Thames' fantasies is that manufacturing is double the proportion of Singapore's economy than it is in the UK.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-autos-batteries-europe-factbox/factbox-plans-for-electric-vehicle-battery-production-in-europe-idUKKCN1NE0K5
Friendship is in most people I think largely separate from belief - the MP I liked best in my 13 years was Oliver Letwin, whose views on economics and Europe were a zillion miles from mine.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/18/amy-klobuchar-cnn-town-hall-1173790
Klobuchar again emphasized that she comes from a “different place” than many of her Democratic primary counterparts when explaining that she always thinks of her “Uncle Dick in the deer stand” when she considers gun control legislation...
Brexit does not help, but car companies are facing a catacylsm (or two) irrespective of Brexit.
If my source is correct, the idea is now to snowball more and more defections and form some kind of alliance with the Lib Dems. Also, neither Chuka nor Berger are expected to be leader...
Having said that, these are brave and good people who, sadly in some cases, will stand little chance of having a future in politics. Umunna and Luciana Berger especially deserve better.
But, that said, maybe the church became a bit too broad. Both major parties might have benefitted from taking a bit more care about their drift toward the extremes.
One thing not mentioned so far is councillors and local party leaders - the SDP got quite a lot of them to defect, which helped with grassroots organising, delivering leaflets etc. Without an actual party organisation that’s difficult. With no Short Money where is a million or two going to come from to set up an office?