politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast. May fights on – so what now?
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Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not with Corbyn aroundGIN1138 said:
\"Move on" to its doom?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move onScrapheap_as_was said:I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.0 -
In order to reinforce the determination to end it all ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Coldplay or Radiohead?Theuniondivvie said:
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Of course some dont agree and some do, but in view of the state of my party, labour should be out of sightAmpfieldAndy said:
Labour and Tories are neck and neck in those polls you’re so fond of so people clearly don’t agree with youBig_G_NorthWales said:
Err - how bad he really isAmpfieldAndy said:
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she isNemtynakht said:
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.AmpfieldAndy said:
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after pollAmpfieldAndy said:
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain You really do not like her poll ratings do youAmpfieldAndy said:
You’vewill they.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are bitter and to be fair I do understand as your dream of no deal disappears into deal or remain I doubt she even thinks about popularity but even so, you cannot name another politician in this country with a higher rating among votersAmpfieldAndy said:
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the most popular politician in the CountryAmpfieldAndy said:May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for.
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Even with those dodgy views, Labour’s poll rating are about the same as the ToriesNemtynakht said:
Perhaps they will. Corbyn has hardly set the world alight with his questionable views on Jews and failure to decide to agree with his supporters on BrexitAmpfieldAndy said:
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she isNemtynakht said:
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.AmpfieldAndy said:
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. She only won yesterday by dint of the payroll vote. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
But it is not one poll it is poll after pollAmpfieldAndy said:
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You really do not like her poll ratings do youAmpfieldAndy said:
You’ve been smoking too much wacky baccy if you think May’s deal will ever see the light of day. As for her popularity, those will be the same polls that forecast a stomping majority for her at the last election will they.Big_G_NorthWales said:AmpfieldAndy said:
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the most popular politician in the CountryAmpfieldAndy said:May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for position as power and authority drains from May; Hammond continues as Chancellor solely concerned with blocking no deal preparation whilst the economy deteriorates and investment goes elsewhere and all this serves to make the most hard left and incompetent Labour leadership since Foot look half way credible.
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It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
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Any whose fault is that - May’sBig_G_NorthWales said:
Of course some dont agree and some do, but in view of the state of my party, labour should be out of sightAmpfieldAndy said:
Labour and Tories are neck and neck in those polls you’re so fond of so people clearly don’t agree with youBig_G_NorthWales said:
Err - how bad he really isAmpfieldAndy said:
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she isNemtynakht said:
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.AmpfieldAndy said:
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after pollAmpfieldAndy said:
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain You really do not like her poll ratings do youAmpfieldAndy said:
You’vewill they.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are bitter and to be fair I do understand as your dream of no deal disappears into deal or remain I doubt she even thinks about popularity but even so, you cannot name another politician in this country with a higher rating among votersAmpfieldAndy said:
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the most popular politician in the CountryAmpfieldAndy said:May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for.
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Strong and Stable II !!!!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Total madness! 0 -
ERGAmpfieldAndy said:
Any whose fault is that - May’sBig_G_NorthWales said:
Of course some dont agree and some do, but in view of the state of my party, labour should be out of sightAmpfieldAndy said:
Labour and Tories are neck and neck in those polls you’re so fond of so people clearly don’t agree with youBig_G_NorthWales said:
Err - how bad he really isAmpfieldAndy said:
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she isNemtynakht said:
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and herAmpfieldAndy said:
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after pollAmpfieldAndy said:
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain You really do not like her poll ratings do youAmpfieldAndy said:
You’vewill they.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are bitter and to be fair I do understand as your dream of no deal disappears into deal or remain I doubt she even thinks about popularity but even so, you cannot name another politician in this country with a higher rating among votersAmpfieldAndy said:
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the most popular politician in the CountryAmpfieldAndy said:May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for.
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It'll be a disaster. Divided parties don't win elections. Labour will unite around Corbyn for "one more push", meanwhile the Conservatives will fight like ferrets in a sack. As I believe was said earlier, May will be going to the country on the Ted Heath "who governs?" ticket. And I expect she will receive a similar answer.AndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
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The party has to rid itself of its UKIP baseGIN1138 said:
Strong and Stable II !!!!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Total madness!0 -
Am I missing something here? We're due to leave the EU on 29 March, what exactly would an election in the same month solve? Give cover for the victor to suspend Article 50?AndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
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We really do not need a bunch of trots in charge turning us into Venezuela.GIN1138 said:
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not with Corbyn aroundGIN1138 said:
\"Move on" to its doom?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move onScrapheap_as_was said:I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.
The hard left don't like to give up power once they get it.
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Er, no. It’s a plural noun.Luckyguy1983 said:
Peoples' vote surely.TheScreamingEagles said:
Denied for failure to use an apostrophe in a People's VoteJohn_M said:I demand a peoples vote confirming that I was first.
#leavergrammar
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I would expect A50 would be postponed - the EU have already said they wouldKentRising said:
Am I missing something here? We're due to leave the EU on 29 March, what exactly would an election in the same month solve? Give cover for the victor to suspend Article 50?AndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
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Well there's a surpriseralphmalph said:May rebuffed by EU leaders - maximum preparation for no deal going ahead.
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Maybe some Tory cabinet ministers have had enough and just want to luxuriate in OppositionKentRising said:
Am I missing something here? We're due to leave the EU on 29 March, what exactly would an election in the same month solve? Give cover for the victor to suspend Article 50?AndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
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EUCO have given May an even more brutal rebuff than at Salzburg.
As predicted, the draft addendum has been salami sliced till there's nothing left. I think EUCO are trying to send May a message: "WHICH PART OF THE DEAL IS FINAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?"
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24 hour news of when Queenie sends the Armed Forces in to sort it out would be decent viewing though.Floater said:
We really do not need a bunch of trots in charge turning us into Venezuela.GIN1138 said:
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not with Corbyn aroundGIN1138 said:
\"Move on" to its doom?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move onScrapheap_as_was said:I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.
The hard left don't like to give up power once they get it.0 -
But I think that Corbyn is the motivator - do you not remember the campaign - the terrible manifesto? Two things drove voters to come out and vote Tory. Corbyn and Brexit. They might have said Red Ed in 2015 but Milliband’s problem was not his policies it was his demeanour - he didn’t look like a PM.kyf_100 said:
The Tories have cried wolf too many times. They called Miliband "Red Ed" then nicked a load of his policies. They told us it was a choice between a strong and stable government or a coalition of chaos, and look what we got. Now they say that Corbyn will bankrupt the country meanwhile people talk up "F**k business" Boris.AmpfieldAndy said:
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she isNemtynakht said:
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.AmpfieldAndy said:
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. She only won yesterday by dint of the payroll vote. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after pollAmpfieldAndy said:
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain
You really do not like her poll ratings do you
I've voted Conservative all my life and even I might consider sitting this one out - or at least I would if it weren't for the fact I do think Corbyn will be an utter disaster. But I think you're right, many people who voted Conservative in 2017 will abstain this time. It's not about people rushing off to embrace Corbyn with open arms. It's about being so demoralised at this absolute s**tshow of a government that they're not worth getting up and voting for.
Now for Tory voters of all stripes what risks the economy? Brexit - yes but Corbyn could be worse. Even before being elected we have heard talk of nationalisation without payment and forced confiscation of property.0 -
And not the caseFloater said:
Well there's a surpriseralphmalph said:May rebuffed by EU leaders - maximum preparation for no deal going ahead.
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Doubt it. What's much more likely is that Remainers and Leavers are swept away in equal numbers...Big_G_NorthWales said:
The party has to rid itself of its UKIP baseGIN1138 said:
Strong and Stable II !!!!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Total madness!
For every Andrea Jenkyns losing their seat there will be an Amber Rudd...
In the the end the MP's left will still be split asunder and the membership will probably elect someone like JRM as LOTO.0 -
From Nicky to NickiLuckyguy1983 said:0 -
Another angry Brexit vicar on the BBC.0
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I could see perfectly good reasons for Tory MPs to vote either for or against May yesterday - but I can't understand the people who were gullible enough to swing their votes to her on the basis of her fantasy promise to "renegotiate the backstop".williamglenn said:0 -
May's draft addendum had a paragraph on "the backstop is not a desirable outcome for the Union" and they actually removed it, and replaced it with paragraph affirming a commitment to the single market.
This addendum actually seems to WILFULLY reaffirm how much the EU really want this backstop.
EUCO are just toying with May now.
Ugly and brutal.
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Note to self, never watch question time.
But boy, this country is broken. Utterly broken by Brexit.0 -
It will not concern me. I will have left if they get near powerGIN1138 said:
Doubt it. What's much more likely is that Remainers and Leavers are swept away in equal numbers...Big_G_NorthWales said:
The party has to rid itself of its UKIP baseGIN1138 said:
Strong and Stable II !!!!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Total madness!
For every Andrea Jenkyns losing their seat there will be an Amber Rudd...
In the the end the MP's left will still be split asunder and the membership will probably elect someone like JRM as LOTO.0 -
May has only one choice now. Fly back get outside No10 and state it is now time to accept that no deal is the only option of the table at this present time. We will do all we can to prepare.
Sit back and see what happens. She can force nothing in EUland or in Parliament. So she just needs to sit back and see what both offer her. Let them come to her.0 -
Sad but true.GIN1138 said:
Yep, they had their chance to get rid of May and Hammond - The Terrible Twosome - But they blew it,AmpfieldAndy said:May continuing is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They will continue to fight over Brexit which will dominate 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals will spend all their time jockeying for position as power and authority drains from May; Hammond continues as Chancellor solely concerned with blocking no deal preparation whilst the economy will continue to deteriorate and investment go elsewhere and all this will serve to make the most hard left and incompetent Labour leadership since Foot look half way credible. There is no chance of rebuilding bridges with the DUP so the Tories will probably lose a vote of no confidence and be saddled with May as leader when the next election comes.
You couldn’t make it up. What muppets Tory MPs were not to ditch May whilst they had a chance. They deserve a Corbyn Gov; the rest of us don’t.
They deserve everything that's coming to them.
I remember when tories actually got rid of leaders that were rather crap.0 -
Is it any less broken that it would be now if Article 50 had been triggered the day after the referendum and we had hard Brexited straight away?Jonathan said:Note to self, never watch question time.
But boy, this country is broken. Utterly broken by Brexit.0 -
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
Probably. It’s going to get worse before it gets better.KentRising said:
Is it any less broken that it would be now if Article 50 had been triggered the day after the referendum and we had hard Brexited straight away?Jonathan said:Note to self, never watch question time.
But boy, this country is broken. Utterly broken by Brexit.0 -
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
Mrs May was not the only British politician in Brussels today - so was Vince Cable. He was meeting with fellow ALDE members who include several prime ministers, European Commissioners, and important players like the leader of Cuidanos. I suspect there is a lot of back channel work going on to sort out a way for Britain to remain in the EU.0
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And even ones that weren't. I mean look at Thatcher in 1990. On her worst day she was better than May.Floater said:
Sad but true.GIN1138 said:
Yep, they had their chance to get rid of May and Hammond - The Terrible Twosome - But they blew it,AmpfieldAndy said:May continuing is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They will continue to fight over Brexit which will dominate 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals will spend all their time jockeying for position as power and authority drains from May; Hammond continues as Chancellor solely concerned with blocking no deal preparation whilst the economy will continue to deteriorate and investment go elsewhere and all this will serve to make the most hard left and incompetent Labour leadership since Foot look half way credible. There is no chance of rebuilding bridges with the DUP so the Tories will probably lose a vote of no confidence and be saddled with May as leader when the next election comes.
You couldn’t make it up. What muppets Tory MPs were not to ditch May whilst they had a chance. They deserve a Corbyn Gov; the rest of us don’t.
They deserve everything that's coming to them.
I remember when tories actually got rid of leaders that were rather crap.0 -
They want us to be forced into remainDonny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.0 -
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
And, to be fair, it's going to work.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They want us to be forced into remainDonny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
That should be Ciudadanos.slade said:Mrs May was not the only British politician in Brussels today - so was Vince Cable. He was meeting with fellow ALDE members who include several prime ministers, European Commissioners, and important players like the leader of Cuidanos. I suspect there is a lot of back channel work going on to sort out a way for Britain to remain in the EU.
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Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
There will be bitterness on a scale unimaginable but remain must be near certain nowDonny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
48% of the country must be masochists.Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
Indeed it isgrabcocque said:
And, to be fair, it's going to work.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They want us to be forced into remainDonny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
A complete lack of national self-confidence. It really is embarrassing.Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
Lab hold in Haringey but big jump in Lib Dem share.0
-
Mrs May's magic touch at negotiating should be enough to push the No majority against her deal > 300.0
-
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.grabcocque said:
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.0 -
It can only come from another referendum with a 60% plus remain voteGIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
Expect a referendum to take place by the end of March if the HOC and HOL agree0 -
I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?0
-
They'll wangle it so it doesn't happen. It's always the way.Luckyguy1983 said:
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.grabcocque said:
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.0 -
That thought stopped being relevant when the ref result was announced.grabcocque said:
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
That's ok because the UK's future as a political entity will be measured in months, not decades.Luckyguy1983 said:
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.grabcocque said:
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.0 -
I think it may go on amendment to a referendum (hopefully)grabcocque said:Mrs May's magic touch at negotiating should be enough to push the No majority against her deal > 300.
0 -
Is this like one of those cases when bad 'uns appeal against the harshness of a sentence and get a more severe one in the second judgment?williamglenn said:0 -
We are not leaving nowLuckyguy1983 said:
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.grabcocque said:
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.0 -
This is the first article I've seen with a 2019 date on it. Interesting piece as well.
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2019/01/shame-storm0 -
It would be the best waygrabcocque said:
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 20190 -
Indeed. What does a March election solve for the Tories? Nothing. I think Fraser Nelson and the Cabinet members he quotes have gone doolally after a long week.NickPalmer said:I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?
0 -
But not by the people. It really is so sad, the people said we want to give you politicians more power to make our lives better and the politicians have come back with no, no we are timid and shy and want to keep blaming the EU for our mistakes, we do not want to be accountable.KentRising said:
A complete lack of national self-confidence. It really is embarrassing.Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
Wholesale clear out needed and it will happen.0 -
They have merely respected our red lines, as requested by us.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This defines why we are in the position that we have reached. Any harm to us is completely self inflicted and freely chosen.0 -
I think the most likely outcome of an early election would be a rainbow coalition with Corbyn as PM. I don't see Labour winning an overall majority at this stage.NickPalmer said:I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?
0 -
Sorry but the ECJ ruling means the HOC can agree to revoke it and we remain on the same termsLuckyguy1983 said:
That thought stopped being relevant when the ref result was announced.grabcocque said:
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
Yes we are my friend. The EU are virtually guaranteeing it. And kissing their fat cheque goodbye in the process.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We are not leaving nowLuckyguy1983 said:
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.grabcocque said:
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.0 -
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1073362834560557056
oh dear. they have just made her safe for 12 months unless cabinet grow some.0 -
Sorry - I feel your pain but the HOC will not allow us to no dealLuckyguy1983 said:
Yes we are my friend. The EU are virtually guaranteeing it. And kissing their fat cheque goodbye in the process.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We are not leaving nowLuckyguy1983 said:
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.grabcocque said:
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
I do fear the anger and the divisive nature of all this but the die is cast now for remain0 -
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.grabcocque said:Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal. Cameron didn't want it and was confident he could get Britain into everything.0 -
That would be a Norway Plus Brexit.Luckyguy1983 said:He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal.
0 -
Yes, I agree. It seems a sensible outcome even for centrist Brexiters - they get to see if it's possible for Corbyn to get a Brexit minus the customs union red line (and hence minus backstop) without anything very left-wing getting through Parliament.AndyJS said:
I think the most likely outcome of an early election would be a rainbow coalition with Corbyn as PM. I don't see Labour winning an overall majority at this stage.NickPalmer said:I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?
But I don't see what's in it for loyal May-supporting Cabinet members.0 -
I am quite clear that nothing has changedLuckyguy1983 said:
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.grabcocque said:Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
My deal is the only deal available
I am getting on with delivering Brexit0 -
Including free movementwilliamglenn said:
That would be a Norway Plus Brexit.Luckyguy1983 said:He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal.
0 -
Freedom of movement is toxic in the UK. May is right to have that as a red line. It comes before 'sovereignty' for most people, which is a more nebulous concept. Cameron would still have lost the ref.Luckyguy1983 said:
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.grabcocque said:Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal. Cameron didn't want it and was confident he could get Britain into everything.0 -
He may yet be right. If we aren't allowed to leave now we should join everything.Luckyguy1983 said:
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.grabcocque said:Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal. Cameron didn't want it and was confident he could get Britain into everything.0 -
Brexit is planetary level statecraft. It's an answer to a 21st Century question. What happens when a country as old, big and rich as the UK freaks out as it can't cope psychologically with the ' Great Exceleration ' and tries to blow up the global architecture that's kept us all alive, free, rich and safe since the end of WW2. The idea this is or *should* be easy for us is absurd. We can leave, we are leaving. But it will bloody hurt and you only ground out your 3.8% one time majority by promising free range Waitrose Unicorns. If you can't craft a majority prepared to pay the cost of leaving we won't leave. Nor should we. Human civilisation isn't built by agreived amateurs.0
-
Pure Norway includes free movement, let alone Norway "plus".Big_G_NorthWales said:
Including free movementwilliamglenn said:
That would be a Norway Plus Brexit.Luckyguy1983 said:He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal.
0 -
They are aware that May would be the leader at that point right? As she has said she has no intention of leading them into a 2022 GE.AndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Maybe they have the kind of memory that makes a goldfish proud as to what happened last time she was on the stump.
0 -
I would be tempted to ask how it's possible for the same woman to get Salzburged by the exact same people, the exact same way, twice.
But, you know, Theresa May.0 -
https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1073363998643503104grabcocque said:I would be tempted to ask how it's possible for the same woman to get Salzburged by the exact same people, the exact same way, twice.
But, you know, Theresa May.0 -
Yes. And no referendum, no divisions, no nothing. But it was Cameron's ambition to tether Britain fully to the EU - as opposed to his stated ambition of delivering a form of associate membership. In so doing, he lost everything.williamglenn said:
That would be a Norway Plus Brexit.Luckyguy1983 said:He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal.
In a similar way, I believe that May's actions indicate she has not been trying to deliver a soft Brexit, so much as undermine Brexit. Unfortunately for her, this is likely not just not to fail, but, as is happening right now, prevent Brexit being soft at all.0 -
We can't be far off one of the sane Leavers calling for A50 revocation. Come back with a serious 10 to 15 year Canada via Norway plan to put in the Tory 2022 manifesto giving the electorate a double or even triple lock in 2027 and 2032 on whether it wants to proceed to the next stage. It's probably now the best way to save Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would be the best waygrabcocque said:
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/1073362557484843010williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1073363998643503104grabcocque said:I would be tempted to ask how it's possible for the same woman to get Salzburged by the exact same people, the exact same way, twice.
But, you know, Theresa May.0 -
That's nonsense. There was never any question of leaving the EU without a referendum.Luckyguy1983 said:
Yes. And no referendum, no divisions, no nothing. But it was Cameron's ambition to tether Britain fully to the EU - as opposed to his stated ambition of delivering a form of associate membership. In so doing, he lost everything.williamglenn said:
That would be a Norway Plus Brexit.Luckyguy1983 said:He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal.
0 -
Theresa May's Brexit Red Lines are like an Asimovian Robot where the ' laws ' permanently prevent success rather than harming humans.grabcocque said:I would be tempted to ask how it's possible for the same woman to get Salzburged by the exact same people, the exact same way, twice.
But, you know, Theresa May.0 -
If A50 is revoked now, that's it for ever. If leaving now is too difficult, how can it be easier after 10 or 20 years more integration?YellowSubmarine said:
We can't be far off one of the sane Leavers calling for A50 revocation. Come back with a serious 10 to 15 year Canada via Norway plan to put in the Tory 2022 manifesto giving the electorate a double or even triple lock in 2027 and 2032 on whether it wants to proceed to the next stage. It's probably now the best way to save Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would be the best waygrabcocque said:
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
A friend just texted me the answer for Brexit. A workable outcome that satisfies Remainers and Brexiteers alike. It was brilliant. A way out of this hell in 140 chars.
Sadly I deleted it by accident.0 -
YellowSubmarine's post is eloquent but pure fantasy, and way too complicated - and long-term - to sell to the average voter at election time.Donny43 said:
If A50 is revoked now, that's it for ever. If leaving now is too difficult, how can it be easier after 10 or 20 years more integration?YellowSubmarine said:
We can't be far off one of the sane Leavers calling for A50 revocation. Come back with a serious 10 to 15 year Canada via Norway plan to put in the Tory 2022 manifesto giving the electorate a double or even triple lock in 2027 and 2032 on whether it wants to proceed to the next stage. It's probably now the best way to save Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would be the best waygrabcocque said:
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.GIN1138 said:
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?Donny43 said:
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?KentRising said:
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.Donny43 said:
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?grabcocque said:In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol0 -
Oh Juncker putting that boot in, just for good meaure.
Just because May is lying bleeding on the floor, doesn't mean Juncker's gonna stop kicking:
"Theresa May has led a courageous fight but unfortunately we are not seeing the results. There will be no renegotiation, that is clear."0 -
As long as Corbyn remains Labour leader there is very unlikely to be many Tory seats lost even if Corbyn becomes PM he will likely lack a majorityGIN1138 said:
Doubt it. What's much more likely is that Remainers and Leavers are swept away in equal numbers...Big_G_NorthWales said:
The party has to rid itself of its UKIP baseGIN1138 said:
Strong and Stable II !!!!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Total madness!
For every Andrea Jenkyns losing their seat there will be an Amber Rudd...
In the the end the MP's left will still be split asunder and the membership will probably elect someone like JRM as LOTO.
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We'd have an election twice a year if it was up to me, although I don't think it would be very good from the long-term planning point of view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
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Is the boot black or brown?grabcocque said:Oh Juncker putting that boot in, just for good meaure.
Just because May is lying bleeding on the floor, doesn't mean Juncker's gonna stop kicking:
"Theresa May has led a courageous fight but unfortunately we are not seeing the results. There will be no renegotiation, that is clear."0 -
I’m unsure what the EU reasoning for this is. There is a possibility that we will be asked in the near future whether we want to change our minds and associate with the EU again, I cannot fathom why they would think this would be a good idea.grabcocque said:EUCO have given May an even more brutal rebuff than at Salzburg.
As predicted, the draft addendum has been salami sliced till there's nothing left. I think EUCO are trying to send May a message: "WHICH PART OF THE DEAL IS FINAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?"0 -
GE or 2nd referendum?AndyJS said:
We'd have an election twice a year if it was up to me, although I don't think it would be very good from the long-term planning point of view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is going to have to come and in the new year TM should announce it and as labour would support it offf we goAndyJS said:Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
She will need a walk in the welsh hills to make that call.0 -
Corbyn of course really does mean BINO, permanent Customs Union and likely permanent Single Market too due to his reliance on the SNP which would be no more than the ERG and hardline Brexiteers deserve if they reject May's DealGIN1138 said:
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not with Corbyn aroundGIN1138 said:
\"Move on" to its doom?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move onScrapheap_as_was said:I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.0
