I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move on
\"Move on" to its doom?
Not with Corbyn around
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.
May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for.
And the most popular politician in the Country
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.
You are bitter and to be fair I do understand as your dream of no deal disappears into deal or remain I doubt she even thinks about popularity but even so, you cannot name another politician in this country with a higher rating among voters
You’vewill they.
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain You really do not like her poll ratings do you
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after poll
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she is
Err - how bad he really is
Labour and Tories are neck and neck in those polls you’re so fond of so people clearly don’t agree with you
Of course some dont agree and some do, but in view of the state of my party, labour should be out of sight
May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for position as power and authority drains from May; Hammond continues as Chancellor solely concerned with blocking no deal preparation whilst the economy deteriorates and investment goes elsewhere and all this serves to make the most hard left and incompetent Labour leadership since Foot look half way credible.
And the most popular politician in the Country
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.
You’ve been smoking too much wacky baccy if you think May’s deal will ever see the light of day. As for her popularity, those will be the same polls that forecast a stomping majority for her at the last election will they.
You really do not like her poll ratings do you
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.
But it is not one poll it is poll after poll
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. She only won yesterday by dint of the payroll vote. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she is
Perhaps they will. Corbyn has hardly set the world alight with his questionable views on Jews and failure to decide to agree with his supporters on Brexit
Even with those dodgy views, Labour’s poll rating are about the same as the Tories
May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for.
And the most popular politician in the Country
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.
You are bitter and to be fair I do understand as your dream of no deal disappears into deal or remain I doubt she even thinks about popularity but even so, you cannot name another politician in this country with a higher rating among voters
You’vewill they.
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain You really do not like her poll ratings do you
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after poll
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she is
Err - how bad he really is
Labour and Tories are neck and neck in those polls you’re so fond of so people clearly don’t agree with you
Of course some dont agree and some do, but in view of the state of my party, labour should be out of sight
May fights is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They continue to fight over Brexit which dominates 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals spend all their time jockeying for.
And the most popular politician in the Country
That’s why she lost a 20% lead in the polls in a snap election she called and lost her.majority in the process. Who wants popularity like that.
You are bitter and to be fair I do understand as your dream of no deal disappears into deal or remain I doubt she even thinks about popularity but even so, you cannot name another politician in this country with a higher rating among voters
You’vewill they.
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain You really do not like her poll ratings do you
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after poll
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she is
Err - how bad he really is
Labour and Tories are neck and neck in those polls you’re so fond of so people clearly don’t agree with you
Of course some dont agree and some do, but in view of the state of my party, labour should be out of sight
Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
It'll be a disaster. Divided parties don't win elections. Labour will unite around Corbyn for "one more push", meanwhile the Conservatives will fight like ferrets in a sack. As I believe was said earlier, May will be going to the country on the Ted Heath "who governs?" ticket. And I expect she will receive a similar answer.
Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Am I missing something here? We're due to leave the EU on 29 March, what exactly would an election in the same month solve? Give cover for the victor to suspend Article 50?
I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move on
\"Move on" to its doom?
Not with Corbyn around
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.
We really do not need a bunch of trots in charge turning us into Venezuela.
The hard left don't like to give up power once they get it.
Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Am I missing something here? We're due to leave the EU on 29 March, what exactly would an election in the same month solve? Give cover for the victor to suspend Article 50?
I would expect A50 would be postponed - the EU have already said they would
Fraser Nelson on Newsnight: a growing number of cabinet ministers favour a general election in March next year.
Am I missing something here? We're due to leave the EU on 29 March, what exactly would an election in the same month solve? Give cover for the victor to suspend Article 50?
Maybe some Tory cabinet ministers have had enough and just want to luxuriate in Opposition
EUCO have given May an even more brutal rebuff than at Salzburg.
As predicted, the draft addendum has been salami sliced till there's nothing left. I think EUCO are trying to send May a message: "WHICH PART OF THE DEAL IS FINAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?"
I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move on
\"Move on" to its doom?
Not with Corbyn around
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.
We really do not need a bunch of trots in charge turning us into Venezuela.
The hard left don't like to give up power once they get it.
24 hour news of when Queenie sends the Armed Forces in to sort it out would be decent viewing though.
I do not smoke and expect the deal to be put to the country in a referendum on deal or remain
You really do not like her poll ratings do you
Simply don’t believe them. A big majority of party members want her gone now according to the latest poll from CinHome and those polled would be her most loyal supporters.
Well that is convenient. But it is not one poll it is poll after poll
The only poll that matters is one involving voting and she doesn’t do well with the public then. She only won yesterday by dint of the payroll vote. You can eulogise about her if you wish but I’m bored with your sycophancy now.
Whether you like her or not, the main point of comparison is Corbyn not anyone else in the Tories and whilst leader ratings are considered it will be against him. You are not telling me that May and her dreadful 2017 garnered record support for the Tories, it was all the sensible people voting against him.
A lot of people voted Tory in 2017 because of Corbyn not May and aren’t going to do that again now they have seen how bad she is
The Tories have cried wolf too many times. They called Miliband "Red Ed" then nicked a load of his policies. They told us it was a choice between a strong and stable government or a coalition of chaos, and look what we got. Now they say that Corbyn will bankrupt the country meanwhile people talk up "F**k business" Boris.
I've voted Conservative all my life and even I might consider sitting this one out - or at least I would if it weren't for the fact I do think Corbyn will be an utter disaster. But I think you're right, many people who voted Conservative in 2017 will abstain this time. It's not about people rushing off to embrace Corbyn with open arms. It's about being so demoralised at this absolute s**tshow of a government that they're not worth getting up and voting for.
But I think that Corbyn is the motivator - do you not remember the campaign - the terrible manifesto? Two things drove voters to come out and vote Tory. Corbyn and Brexit. They might have said Red Ed in 2015 but Milliband’s problem was not his policies it was his demeanour - he didn’t look like a PM.
Now for Tory voters of all stripes what risks the economy? Brexit - yes but Corbyn could be worse. Even before being elected we have heard talk of nationalisation without payment and forced confiscation of property.
I could see perfectly good reasons for Tory MPs to vote either for or against May yesterday - but I can't understand the people who were gullible enough to swing their votes to her on the basis of her fantasy promise to "renegotiate the backstop".
May's draft addendum had a paragraph on "the backstop is not a desirable outcome for the Union" and they actually removed it, and replaced it with paragraph affirming a commitment to the single market.
This addendum actually seems to WILFULLY reaffirm how much the EU really want this backstop.
EUCO are just toying with May now. Ugly and brutal.
May has only one choice now. Fly back get outside No10 and state it is now time to accept that no deal is the only option of the table at this present time. We will do all we can to prepare. Sit back and see what happens. She can force nothing in EUland or in Parliament. So she just needs to sit back and see what both offer her. Let them come to her.
May continuing is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They will continue to fight over Brexit which will dominate 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals will spend all their time jockeying for position as power and authority drains from May; Hammond continues as Chancellor solely concerned with blocking no deal preparation whilst the economy will continue to deteriorate and investment go elsewhere and all this will serve to make the most hard left and incompetent Labour leadership since Foot look half way credible. There is no chance of rebuilding bridges with the DUP so the Tories will probably lose a vote of no confidence and be saddled with May as leader when the next election comes.
You couldn’t make it up. What muppets Tory MPs were not to ditch May whilst they had a chance. They deserve a Corbyn Gov; the rest of us don’t.
Yep, they had their chance to get rid of May and Hammond - The Terrible Twosome - But they blew it,
They deserve everything that's coming to them.
Sad but true.
I remember when tories actually got rid of leaders that were rather crap.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
Mrs May was not the only British politician in Brussels today - so was Vince Cable. He was meeting with fellow ALDE members who include several prime ministers, European Commissioners, and important players like the leader of Cuidanos. I suspect there is a lot of back channel work going on to sort out a way for Britain to remain in the EU.
May continuing is a terrible outcome for the Tories. They will continue to fight over Brexit which will dominate 100% of the political agenda; they continue to be led by a lame duck leader whom no one wants to lead them in the next election because of her appalling campaigning skills and total detachment from people’s lives; rivals will spend all their time jockeying for position as power and authority drains from May; Hammond continues as Chancellor solely concerned with blocking no deal preparation whilst the economy will continue to deteriorate and investment go elsewhere and all this will serve to make the most hard left and incompetent Labour leadership since Foot look half way credible. There is no chance of rebuilding bridges with the DUP so the Tories will probably lose a vote of no confidence and be saddled with May as leader when the next election comes.
You couldn’t make it up. What muppets Tory MPs were not to ditch May whilst they had a chance. They deserve a Corbyn Gov; the rest of us don’t.
Yep, they had their chance to get rid of May and Hammond - The Terrible Twosome - But they blew it,
They deserve everything that's coming to them.
Sad but true.
I remember when tories actually got rid of leaders that were rather crap.
And even ones that weren't. I mean look at Thatcher in 1990. On her worst day she was better than May.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
Mrs May was not the only British politician in Brussels today - so was Vince Cable. He was meeting with fellow ALDE members who include several prime ministers, European Commissioners, and important players like the leader of Cuidanos. I suspect there is a lot of back channel work going on to sort out a way for Britain to remain in the EU.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
There will be bitterness on a scale unimaginable but remain must be near certain now
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
A complete lack of national self-confidence. It really is embarrassing.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
It can only come from another referendum with a 60% plus remain vote
Expect a referendum to take place by the end of March if the HOC and HOL agree
I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.
They'll wangle it so it doesn't happen. It's always the way.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.
That thought stopped being relevant when the ref result was announced.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.
That's ok because the UK's future as a political entity will be measured in months, not decades.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.
I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?
Indeed. What does a March election solve for the Tories? Nothing. I think Fraser Nelson and the Cabinet members he quotes have gone doolally after a long week.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
A complete lack of national self-confidence. It really is embarrassing.
But not by the people. It really is so sad, the people said we want to give you politicians more power to make our lives better and the politicians have come back with no, no we are timid and shy and want to keep blaming the EU for our mistakes, we do not want to be accountable.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
They have merely respected our red lines, as requested by us.
This defines why we are in the position that we have reached. Any harm to us is completely self inflicted and freely chosen.
I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?
I think the most likely outcome of an early election would be a rainbow coalition with Corbyn as PM. I don't see Labour winning an overall majority at this stage.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.
That thought stopped being relevant when the ref result was announced.
Sorry but the ECJ ruling means the HOC can agree to revoke it and we remain on the same terms
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.
We are not leaving now
Yes we are my friend. The EU are virtually guaranteeing it. And kissing their fat cheque goodbye in the process.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
You know, the EU have fought and lost a lot of battles against populist insurgencies. In the case of Brexit, May is so weak and trapped, I think they've finally sensed this is one they can win.
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
They can win against May. But they cannot stop Britain leaving. Therefore hanging her out to dry is the worst thing they could do. Watch us leave without a withdrawal agreement. I don't care whether that's unconscionable to British politicians and the civil service - it's gonna happen. And if unmanaged no deal is as ugly as people are making it sound, it's going to leave deep resentment between the UK and continental Europe for decades.
We are not leaving now
Yes we are my friend. The EU are virtually guaranteeing it. And kissing their fat cheque goodbye in the process.
Sorry - I feel your pain but the HOC will not allow us to no deal
I do fear the anger and the divisive nature of all this but the die is cast now for remain
Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal. Cameron didn't want it and was confident he could get Britain into everything.
I don't get the March election stuff, much though I'd welcome it. The Conservatives have Mrs May in charge for the next 12 months. In March they will either have a deal similar to the one they recently voted down, or no deal, and they'll have a leader in whom a third of the Parliamentary party have no confidence. It seems unpromising - what am I missing?
I think the most likely outcome of an early election would be a rainbow coalition with Corbyn as PM. I don't see Labour winning an overall majority at this stage.
Yes, I agree. It seems a sensible outcome even for centrist Brexiters - they get to see if it's possible for Corbyn to get a Brexit minus the customs union red line (and hence minus backstop) without anything very left-wing getting through Parliament.
But I don't see what's in it for loyal May-supporting Cabinet members.
Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.
I am quite clear that nothing has changed My deal is the only deal available I am getting on with delivering Brexit
Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal. Cameron didn't want it and was confident he could get Britain into everything.
Freedom of movement is toxic in the UK. May is right to have that as a red line. It comes before 'sovereignty' for most people, which is a more nebulous concept. Cameron would still have lost the ref.
Juncker says he feels the EU is beyond helping May further, she only ever demands help from EU leaders without ever suggesting what it is she wants.
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
I agree with Juncker - I actually quite like Juncker and think he's very sound. I can well believe Theresa has not been clear about what she supposedly wants.
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal. Cameron didn't want it and was confident he could get Britain into everything.
He may yet be right. If we aren't allowed to leave now we should join everything.
Brexit is planetary level statecraft. It's an answer to a 21st Century question. What happens when a country as old, big and rich as the UK freaks out as it can't cope psychologically with the ' Great Exceleration ' and tries to blow up the global architecture that's kept us all alive, free, rich and safe since the end of WW2. The idea this is or *should* be easy for us is absurd. We can leave, we are leaving. But it will bloody hurt and you only ground out your 3.8% one time majority by promising free range Waitrose Unicorns. If you can't craft a majority prepared to pay the cost of leaving we won't leave. Nor should we. Human civilisation isn't built by agreived amateurs.
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal.
That would be a Norway Plus Brexit.
Yes. And no referendum, no divisions, no nothing. But it was Cameron's ambition to tether Britain fully to the EU - as opposed to his stated ambition of delivering a form of associate membership. In so doing, he lost everything.
In a similar way, I believe that May's actions indicate she has not been trying to deliver a soft Brexit, so much as undermine Brexit. Unfortunately for her, this is likely not just not to fail, but, as is happening right now, prevent Brexit being soft at all.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.
It would be the best way
We can't be far off one of the sane Leavers calling for A50 revocation. Come back with a serious 10 to 15 year Canada via Norway plan to put in the Tory 2022 manifesto giving the electorate a double or even triple lock in 2027 and 2032 on whether it wants to proceed to the next stage. It's probably now the best way to save Brexit.
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal.
That would be a Norway Plus Brexit.
Yes. And no referendum, no divisions, no nothing. But it was Cameron's ambition to tether Britain fully to the EU - as opposed to his stated ambition of delivering a form of associate membership. In so doing, he lost everything.
That's nonsense. There was never any question of leaving the EU without a referendum.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.
It would be the best way
We can't be far off one of the sane Leavers calling for A50 revocation. Come back with a serious 10 to 15 year Canada via Norway plan to put in the Tory 2022 manifesto giving the electorate a double or even triple lock in 2027 and 2032 on whether it wants to proceed to the next stage. It's probably now the best way to save Brexit.
If A50 is revoked now, that's it for ever. If leaving now is too difficult, how can it be easier after 10 or 20 years more integration?
A friend just texted me the answer for Brexit. A workable outcome that satisfies Remainers and Brexiteers alike. It was brilliant. A way out of this hell in 140 chars.
A friend just texted me the answer for Brexit. A workable outcome that satisfies Remainers and Brexiteers alike. It was brilliant. A way out of this hell in 140 chars.
In Para 3 the EU rip out reassurance that Backstop is "not a desirable outcome for the Union" and add a bit on the 'integrity of the single market'.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
The EU don't actually want a deal, do they?
They think we are heading towards Remain and are doing everything they can to help us on our way.
How on earth can we remain in an organisation that treats us this way?
Good question. Anyone? Anyone?
I think we just have to revoke Article 50 in accordance with our national constitutional requirements.
It would be the best way
We can't be far off one of the sane Leavers calling for A50 revocation. Come back with a serious 10 to 15 year Canada via Norway plan to put in the Tory 2022 manifesto giving the electorate a double or even triple lock in 2027 and 2032 on whether it wants to proceed to the next stage. It's probably now the best way to save Brexit.
If A50 is revoked now, that's it for ever. If leaving now is too difficult, how can it be easier after 10 or 20 years more integration?
YellowSubmarine's post is eloquent but pure fantasy, and way too complicated - and long-term - to sell to the average voter at election time.
A friend just texted me the answer for Brexit. A workable outcome that satisfies Remainers and Brexiteers alike. It was brilliant. A way out of this hell in 140 chars.
EUCO have given May an even more brutal rebuff than at Salzburg.
As predicted, the draft addendum has been salami sliced till there's nothing left. I think EUCO are trying to send May a message: "WHICH PART OF THE DEAL IS FINAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?"
I’m unsure what the EU reasoning for this is. There is a possibility that we will be asked in the near future whether we want to change our minds and associate with the EU again, I cannot fathom why they would think this would be a good idea.
I wonder if nadine has sent in her no confidence letter again for Dec 2019...
Fair play to her as she accepted the result and wants the party to move on
\"Move on" to its doom?
Not with Corbyn around
Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. Forget it. The next election is going to be a referendum on this awful Conservative government. Nothing else.
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.
Corbyn of course really does mean BINO, permanent Customs Union and likely permanent Single Market too due to his reliance on the SNP which would be no more than the ERG and hardline Brexiteers deserve if they reject May's Deal
Comments
May once said the Tories were the "nasty party" but now she and Hammond have gone one step further and made everyone aware they are a party of "extremists" - And you expect people to actually vote Con?
Even if Corbyn is an extremist himself so what when the Tories are too? And at least Jezza offers a fresh start and a change of direction which is exactly what the country needs.
Total madness!
The hard left don't like to give up power once they get it.
#leavergrammar
As predicted, the draft addendum has been salami sliced till there's nothing left. I think EUCO are trying to send May a message: "WHICH PART OF THE DEAL IS FINAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?"
Now for Tory voters of all stripes what risks the economy? Brexit - yes but Corbyn could be worse. Even before being elected we have heard talk of nationalisation without payment and forced confiscation of property.
For every Andrea Jenkyns losing their seat there will be an Amber Rudd...
In the the end the MP's left will still be split asunder and the membership will probably elect someone like JRM as LOTO.
This addendum actually seems to WILFULLY reaffirm how much the EU really want this backstop.
EUCO are just toying with May now.
Ugly and brutal.
But boy, this country is broken. Utterly broken by Brexit.
Sit back and see what happens. She can force nothing in EUland or in Parliament. So she just needs to sit back and see what both offer her. Let them come to her.
I remember when tories actually got rid of leaders that were rather crap.
Para 4 the add is designed to remind UK that trust cuts both ways, as does this deal.
Para 5 was controversial part even before the night began (the Irish hated it). It promised to examine whether "any further reassurance can be provided". In the final communique it was ripped out completely and replaced with a pledge to ramp up no-deal preps.
May is now in a worse position than before she started negotiating.
lol
This looks like a wilful, public and very deliberate humiliation (another one?) of May by the EU.
Expect a referendum to take place by the end of March if the HOC and HOL agree
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2019/01/shame-storm
And thus ends Mrs May's great futility tour 2019
Wholesale clear out needed and it will happen.
This defines why we are in the position that we have reached. Any harm to us is completely self inflicted and freely chosen.
oh dear. they have just made her safe for 12 months unless cabinet grow some.
I do fear the anger and the divisive nature of all this but the die is cast now for remain
He was also prepared to offer Cameron associate member status for Britain provided we respected the 4 freedoms, which would have been ideal. Cameron didn't want it and was confident he could get Britain into everything.
But I don't see what's in it for loyal May-supporting Cabinet members.
My deal is the only deal available
I am getting on with delivering Brexit
Maybe they have the kind of memory that makes a goldfish proud as to what happened last time she was on the stump.
But, you know, Theresa May.
In a similar way, I believe that May's actions indicate she has not been trying to deliver a soft Brexit, so much as undermine Brexit. Unfortunately for her, this is likely not just not to fail, but, as is happening right now, prevent Brexit being soft at all.
Sadly I deleted it by accident.
Just because May is lying bleeding on the floor, doesn't mean Juncker's gonna stop kicking:
"Theresa May has led a courageous fight but unfortunately we are not seeing the results. There will be no renegotiation, that is clear."
She will need a walk in the welsh hills to make that call.