politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Moggsy’s TM confidence vote gamble could rebound into a confid
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Moggsy’s TM confidence vote gamble could rebound into a confidence vote on himself
Yesterday the old Etonian father of six, Jacob Rees-Mogg, took a massive gamble when he had an impromptu press conference outside the palace of Westminster in which he declared his lack of confidence in the state-school educated Mrs May. He announced that he had sent a letter calling for a confidence vote and it looked as though the other 47 letters and needed were either there or would be arriving quickly.
Comments
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First! Like Mrs May & Leave...0
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Mrs May live phone in on LBC shortly:
https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/parties/conservatives/theresa-may/exclusive-theresa-may-takes-your-calls-on-lbc/0 -
I invented them, obviously.NickPalmer said:
Where do you get these figures? They are in stark contrast to polling so far (Rory Stewart got in trouble for saying something similar - he had to admit he'd conjured them up).rcs1000 said:
It is the deal that 50% of Remainers and 75% of Leavers are happy with. It is the deal that reflects the fact that the vote was a close one.
But I'm basing them on the pb-selectorate. A clear majority of PB-leavers are supportive of the deal, and around half of PB-remainers.0 -
Hilariously, at his press conference Rees Mogg talked of the immense talent of Johnson, Davis, Raab, McVey and Mordaunt.0
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LOL - that was funny!SouthamObserver said:Hilariously, at his press conference Rees Mogg talked of the immense talent of Johnson, Davis, Raab, McVey and Mordaunt.
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Meanwhile, a Michael Gove-shaped figure lurks in the shadows...0
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Is "talent" a euphemism?SouthamObserver said:Hilariously, at his press conference Rees Mogg talked of the immense talent of Johnson, Davis, Raab, McVey and Mordaunt.
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There are a lot of people who want to vote against it to register a protest, but would secretly prefer it to pass. Which is why the 48 votes have not materialised. People want intellectual purity without the consequences, which means voting against something you hope will pass.DavidL said:
I was totally confident of that at the beginning of the week but yesterday was a shocker and no mistake. So many people will have to climb down from such peaks of pomposity that it is hard to imagine it happening any time soon. May's deal is the pragmatic thing to do but pragmatism is being trounced by vanity and self perceived virtuosity.rcs1000 said:
Well yes.John_M said:
It'll be a pity if Brexit is undone because Brexit Ultras can't compose themselves with a modicum of patience. We spent a long time in the EU. A gentle undocking over time would be better (and more respectful of a substantial minority who would like to reverse course!) than simply stripping naked and hurling ourselves out of the EU window.rcs1000 said:
"Perpetual" means "never ending or changing".daodao said:I disagree with your statement that "The May deal does not leave us as a perpetual vassal state." However, much of what you state is valid, and it may be better to look at the deal as a "cup half full", as the alternatives are likely to be much worse. I was merely highlighting the key issue, as I see things. I am not concerned about the implications for the 6 counties, as they are on the road to rejoining the rest of Ireland to make a whole nation once again.
I will bet you £5 that the UK-EU customs union ends before the heat death of the universe. I'll even offer you 10-1 if you like,
I am increasingly optimistic that the House of Commons will - reluctantly - back this deal.
I've loaded up on Dixons shares in anticipation.
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'ego'....rcs1000 said:
Is "talent" a euphemism?SouthamObserver said:Hilariously, at his press conference Rees Mogg talked of the immense talent of Johnson, Davis, Raab, McVey and Mordaunt.
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Mr. Observer, isn't Mordaunt still in place?
And, if that list is complete, interesting omission of Gove.0 -
The word I would use to describe Mogg is SMUG. Sums him up nicely methinksmurali_s said:
LOL - that was funny!SouthamObserver said:Hilariously, at his press conference Rees Mogg talked of the immense talent of Johnson, Davis, Raab, McVey and Mordaunt.
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FPT
SquareRoot said:
» show previous quotes
When some of your team are playing crap, you call them into the middle just like the Sri Lanka captain just did and give them a damn good bollocking.
The Captain has to be slightly apart from the team.. whilst being in the team..
I said:
I seem to remember that another Geoffrey had some comments on the role of the Captain though: "It’s rather like sending our opening batsmen to the crease only for them to find that before the first ball is bowled, their bats have been broken by the team captain. "
There's been a fair bit of that as well.0 -
Time to call a plumber then?numbertwelve said:Meanwhile, a Michael Gove-shaped figure lurks in the shadows...
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The majority of Go Fund Me's are for USA medical expenses - mostly cancer IIRC.Pulpstar said:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/15/johnny-bobbitt-gofundme-scam-arrest-viral-gas-story-couple-charged
Some questions on this - Why do people give after say $10,000 has arrived. Also isn't the whole "gofundme" just some high powered form of begging. What happened to the concept of just paying for stuff or going without if you can't afford stuff ?
I know this one is being prosecuted but the whole 'I need money for xyz' industry seems a bit whiffy. Please note I'm not talking about say donations to Cancer Research or Guide Dogs for the Blind or Cat's Trust.
Which I find intensly depressing, it's people begging to stay alive.0 -
My key takeaway from the analysis above is that Mogg has had sex six times. Frankly I find that hard to believe.0
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There is a technical flaw in that approach as the numbers adopting it exceed 325.....rcs1000 said:
There are a lot of people who want to vote against it to register a protest, but would secretly prefer it to pass. Which is why the 48 votes have not materialised. People want intellectual purity without the consequences, which means voting against something you hope will pass.DavidL said:
I was totally confident of that at the beginning of the week but yesterday was a shocker and no mistake. So many people will have to climb down from such peaks of pomposity that it is hard to imagine it happening any time soon. May's deal is the pragmatic thing to do but pragmatism is being trounced by vanity and self perceived virtuosity.rcs1000 said:
Well yes.John_M said:
It'll be a pity if Brexit is undone because Brexit Ultras can't compose themselves with a modicum of patience. We spent a long time in the EU. A gentle undocking over time would be better (and more respectful of a substantial minority who would like to reverse course!) than simply stripping naked and hurling ourselves out of the EU window.rcs1000 said:
"Perpetual" means "never ending or changing".daodao said:I disagree with your statement that "The May deal does not leave us as a perpetual vassal state." However, much of what you state is valid, and it may be better to look at the deal as a "cup half full", as the alternatives are likely to be much worse. I was merely highlighting the key issue, as I see things. I am not concerned about the implications for the 6 counties, as they are on the road to rejoining the rest of Ireland to make a whole nation once again.
I will bet you £5 that the UK-EU customs union ends before the heat death of the universe. I'll even offer you 10-1 if you like,
I am increasingly optimistic that the House of Commons will - reluctantly - back this deal.
I've loaded up on Dixons shares in anticipation.0 -
@rcs100 Why Dixons shares?0
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May would do better if when asked if the DUP were going to vote with her said "that's their decision to make". Instead of shrill waffle about all MPs having to choose - which is her making explicit that her own MPs also have to choose and therefore are no longer under her control.0
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With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.0
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0
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Yes... I'm aware of that...DavidL said:
There is a technical flaw in that approach as the numbers adopting it exceed 325.....rcs1000 said:
There are a lot of people who want to vote against it to register a protest, but would secretly prefer it to pass. Which is why the 48 votes have not materialised. People want intellectual purity without the consequences, which means voting against something you hope will pass.DavidL said:
I was totally confident of that at the beginning of the week but yesterday was a shocker and no mistake. So many people will have to climb down from such peaks of pomposity that it is hard to imagine it happening any time soon. May's deal is the pragmatic thing to do but pragmatism is being trounced by vanity and self perceived virtuosity.rcs1000 said:
Well yes.John_M said:
It'll be a pity if Brexit is undone because Brexit Ultras can't compose themselves with a modicum of patience. We spent a long time in the EU. A gentle undocking over time would be better (and more respectful of a substantial minority who would like to reverse course!) than simply stripping naked and hurling ourselves out of the EU window.rcs1000 said:
"Perpetual" means "never ending or changing".daodao said:I disagree with your statement that "The May deal does not leave us as a perpetual vassal state." However, much of what you state is valid, and it may be better to look at the deal as a "cup half full", as the alternatives are likely to be much worse. I was merely highlighting the key issue, as I see things. I am not concerned about the implications for the 6 counties, as they are on the road to rejoining the rest of Ireland to make a whole nation once again.
I will bet you £5 that the UK-EU customs union ends before the heat death of the universe. I'll even offer you 10-1 if you like,
I am increasingly optimistic that the House of Commons will - reluctantly - back this deal.
I've loaded up on Dixons shares in anticipation.0 -
Mike is quite right here. First law of the streets is 'you come for the king, you best not miss'.
If Corbyn can stay on when most of his MPs are against him, then May might see this through yet.
There's still the matter of getting whatever through the house, but if she plays hardball, then the TINA might gain traction.0 -
Because a Brexit deal would push GBPUSD towards $1.50.not_on_fire said:@rcs100 Why Dixons shares?
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What is point0
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Mr. Felix, the question is how that comes about.
If the Commons votes for the deal, the deal will be done.
If the deal falls it's possible that May might (prior to defenestration, so she'll have to be quick) put down a vote on a second referendum. Big risk for pro-EU types to deliberately vote down the deal in order to try and get another referendum.
However, if such a vote were put to Parliament it sounds like it'd pass with little difficulty.0 -
He has nothing to lose. Outside of the media looking for stories of the théâtre de l'absurde the man's seen as a village idiot.0
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Good performance by May so far!0
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JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
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I think Parliament will demand it and the means will be found to do that.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Felix, the question is how that comes about.
If the Commons votes for the deal, the deal will be done.
If the deal falls it's possible that May might (prior to defenestration, so she'll have to be quick) put down a vote on a second referendum. Big risk for pro-EU types to deliberately vote down the deal in order to try and get another referendum.
However, if such a vote were put to Parliament it sounds like it'd pass with little difficulty.0 -
May, for once, is showing some political nous. She is only going to win the day by going over the heads of MPs and talking to the country.RochdalePioneers said:May would do better if when asked if the DUP were going to vote with her said "that's their decision to make". Instead of shrill waffle about all MPs having to choose - which is her making explicit that her own MPs also have to choose and therefore are no longer under her control.
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Someone needs to put up that photo where Davies and Barnier are on opposite sides of the table - Barnier with his papers, ready to get down to work and Davies with a grin thinking he's on some away-day from work!CarlottaVance said:"Interim Prime Minister"?
https://twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/10633443798201548800 -
Far more serious than any of this what on earth has happened to Moeen's batting? On form Jimmy should be looking slightly askance at his position in the line up.
Match back in the balance again. It's riveting stuff.
Edit, in fairness unlucky there, struck outside the line.0 -
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And now she's saying her massive police cuts aren't responsible for the massive cut in police numbers and the impact on crime0
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felix said:
With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.0 -
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.0 -
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.0 -
Mr. Felix, unfortunately, just hoping something should happen does mean it will. There has to be a practical means of effecting it.
Mind you, I do think that, whatever happens, this is going to rumble on for a very long time.0 -
May has impressive resilience, but remains a lousy politician. She still takes the line ‘I am right’ and seems to think that fact alone will convince others to back her.0
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And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.0 -
Also, as a country we should back May's deal. It's the only deal in town, even though it's obviously inferior to remaining in the EU.
The default to this deal is a hard Brexit. I wish the default was the status-quo (remaining in the EU) but sadly it isn't.0 -
You cain’t always get what you want....AmpfieldAndy said:felix said:With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.0 -
I think she is going to pull it off and despite myself (I am a left leaning remainer) I am rooting for her. The alternatives of a Moggster type brexit (he reminds me of a reptile for some reason) or an Alistair Campbell type breathtakingly arrogant disregarding of the referendum result are simply untenable. I think a majority of MPs will ultimately feel the same and will back the deal, either as is or as tinkered with a little. You can get better than evens that May survives this year and that IMO is value.0
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The callers to the May phone-in have been largely sympathetic to May personally, even if they don't like the deal. The most recent a Brit in Spain remarking that those who caused this mess have run away.0
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I think arguing that the massive reduction in crime over recent years (despite the politicians frenzy to create ever more absurd new crimes and our obsession with historic sex) is entirely down to the reduction in police numbers is extreme. There must be other factors.RochdalePioneers said:And now she's saying her massive police cuts aren't responsible for the massive cut in police numbers and the impact on crime
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This is well put and I think you are right.kinabalu said:I think she is going to pull it off and despite myself (I am a left leaning remainer) I am rooting for her. The alternatives of a Moggster type brexit (he reminds me of a reptile for some reason) or an Alistair Campbell type breathtakingly arrogant disregarding of the referendum result are simply untenable. I think a majority of MPs will ultimately feel the same and will back the deal, either as is or as tinkered with a little. You can get better than evens that May survives this year and that IMO is value.
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"Prime Minister are you Chamberlain"?0
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The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.0 -
That is not the point. Remainers didn’t get what they wanted in the referendum and look how badly they have behaved since - like spoilt brats.Bromptonaut said:
You cain’t always get what you want....AmpfieldAndy said:felix said:With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.
The problem with May’s deal is that it is not worth having at all. It has no merits and it doesn’t even give us back control of our borders, money and laws as he falsely claimed yesterday.0 -
There's a lot of that view I think. The British tend to admire dogged perseverance - that's what the quitters don't get.CarlottaVance said:The callers to the May phone-in have been largely sympathetic to May personally, even if they don't like the deal. The most recent a Brit in Spain remarking that those who caused this mess have run away.
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Crash out isn't the only alternative, nobody except maybe JRM wants that. We don't have to settle for May's deal, very few want that. There is a majority of MPs wanting to stay in the EU, even if their leaders don't. Also the polls show movement in the country towards staying.murali_s said:Also, as a country we should back May's deal. It's the only deal in town, even though it's obviously inferior to remaining in the EU.
The default to this deal is a hard Brexit. I wish the default was the status-quo (remaining in the EU) but sadly it isn't.0 -
Morning PB
Has May gone yet?
Anyone found Gove yet? 0 -
So what do you think the alternative is?Jonathan said:The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.0 -
rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.0 -
Have you read the deal? It does exactly that.AmpfieldAndy said:
That is not the point. Remainers didn’t get what they wanted in the referendum and look how badly they have behaved since - like spoilt brats.Bromptonaut said:
You cain’t always get what you want....AmpfieldAndy said:felix said:With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.
The problem with May’s deal is that it is not worth having at all. It has no merits and it doesn’t even give us back control of our borders, money and laws as he falsely claimed yesterday.0 -
Reports that only 30 to 40 MPs turned up at the ERG meeting yesterday rather than the 80 or so the ERG claim for their caucus. If that is so then May's Deal might even have a chance of getting through with Labour rebels. Plus the ERG was also divided over strategy as they know they lack the votes to topple May now0
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Ah yes, looking at stats instead of what is actually happening on the streets and being widely reported.DavidL said:
I think arguing that the massive reduction in crime over recent years (despite the politicians frenzy to create ever more absurd new crimes and our obsession with historic sex) is entirely down to the reduction in police numbers is extreme. There must be other factors.RochdalePioneers said:And now she's saying her massive police cuts aren't responsible for the massive cut in police numbers and the impact on crime
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AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
The leave campaign was about more money for the NHS0 -
It wasn't me!CarlottaVance said:The callers to the May phone-in have been largely sympathetic to May personally, even if they don't like the deal. The most recent a Brit in Spain remarking that those who caused this mess have run away.
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Well there are the Remain or No Deal alternatives and if I were her I would threaten a referendum on that forced choice if she cannot get her Deal through ParliamentJonathan said:The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.0 -
There are at least three.Benpointer said:
So what do you think the alternaitve is?Jonathan said:The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.
1) Barnier is open to further talks, use the mechanism to extend A50 and continue negotiations
2) Run a referendum with no deal, the deal and no Brexit.
Or
3) Replace the troublesome unloved bespoke backstop agreement with simple re-entry. This solves almost all problems with the deal.
I prefer 2) then 3). But to say there is no alternative is incorrect.0 -
We don't know what the deal will be. This is the withdrawal agreement - and Raab's resignation letter implied that leaving the single market completely is far from certain.currystar said:
Have you read the deal? It does exactly that.AmpfieldAndy said:
That is not the point. Remainers didn’t get what they wanted in the referendum and look how badly they have behaved since - like spoilt brats.Bromptonaut said:
You cain’t always get what you want....AmpfieldAndy said:felix said:With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.
The problem with May’s deal is that it is not worth having at all. It has no merits and it doesn’t even give us back control of our borders, money and laws as he falsely claimed yesterday.0 -
For goodness sake only 32% back No Deal in Sky's poll yesterday, that is even less popular than the poll tax.murali_s said:Also, as a country we should back May's deal. It's the only deal in town, even though it's obviously inferior to remaining in the EU.
The default to this deal is a hard Brexit. I wish the default was the status-quo (remaining in the EU) but sadly it isn't.
The default without this deal will end up being Remain, the question then is just when not if0 -
Interesting but not surprising. Though I now have quite a respect for Mrs May's qualities appointing Davis Johnson and Fox showed a reckless lack of judgementCarlottaVance said:"Interim Prime Minister"?
https://twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/10633443798201548800 -
How does it actually gives back control of those. It says nothing about immigration, our trading laws are determined by Brussels with us having g no say; trade isn’t mentioned so the issue of paying for trade isn’t discussed let alone raised, and we are faced with being in a customs union which,together with the EU determining our trading laws, effectively rules out our ability to conclude any trade deals on our own.currystar said:
Have you read the deal? It does exactly that.AmpfieldAndy said:
That is not the point. Remainers didn’t get what they wanted in the referendum and look how badly they have behaved since - like spoilt brats.Bromptonaut said:
You cain’t always get what you want....AmpfieldAndy said:felix said:With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.
The problem with May’s deal is that it is not worth having at all. It has no merits and it doesn’t even give us back control of our borders, money and laws as he falsely claimed yesterday.0 -
HYUFD - the legal default is No deal. Politics needs to happen for that to change in any direction.HYUFD said:
For goodness sake only 32% back No Deal in Sky's poll yesterday, that is even less popular than the poll tax.murali_s said:Also, as a country we should back May's deal. It's the only deal in town, even though it's obviously inferior to remaining in the EU.
The default to this deal is a hard Brexit. I wish the default was the status-quo (remaining in the EU) but sadly it isn't.
The default without this deal will end up being Remain, the question then is just when not if
We’re not led by sentient opinion polls.0 -
https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1063347261281841153logical_song said:
Crash out isn't the only alternative, nobody except maybe JRM wants that. We don't have to settle for May's deal, very few want that. There is a majority of MPs wanting to stay in the EU, even if their leaders don't. Also the polls show movement in the country towards staying.murali_s said:Also, as a country we should back May's deal. It's the only deal in town, even though it's obviously inferior to remaining in the EU.
The default to this deal is a hard Brexit. I wish the default was the status-quo (remaining in the EU) but sadly it isn't.0 -
You're much too hasty Mike.
Events dear boy, events.
Watch the next 72 hours ...0 -
One thing I missed in all yesterdays hubbub - Did Theresa ever manage to fill the vacant Brexit and Work and Pensions jobs? Or are those seats still empty in the Cabinet?0
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That was the sign on the Vote Leave bus. I don’t think many of the Vote Leave campaigners spent too much time on the doorstep discussing the NHS. I didn’t and Leave.EU seemed fixated on immigration almost exclusively.MikeSmithson said:AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
The leave campaign was about more money for the NHS0 -
Not filling Brexit Secretary doesn't seem that big a deal. As for DWP, it's not as though anything major's happening in that department, is it?GIN1138 said:One thing I missed in all yesterdays hubbub - Did Theresa ever manage to fill the vacant Brexit and Work and Pensions jobs? Or are those seats still empty in the Cabinet?
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It is a learned skill which many politicians these days do not bother to learn. Gordon Brown was as bad. If you spend your career avoiding questions then you won't learn how to answer them.Pulpstar said:
Also shows she can debate for future elections.Mortimer said:Good performance by May so far!
Jeremy Corbyn has spent the last 40 years speaking to any group that will pay his travel expenses, so it was no surprise at GE 2017 that he was fairly good at it.
It is noticeable that the new Number 10 team has cottoned on to this, and this increased exposure will stand Theresa May in good stead. Similarly, the Prime Minister's African tour was a crash course in being human interacting with the public.
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Well tough, the reality of the modern global economy is that common rules need to be followed between countries. It would of course far more preferably to have kept the status that meant we actually had a say in them.AmpfieldAndy said:
How does it actually gives back control of those. It says nothing about immigration, our trading laws are determined by Brussels with us having g no say; trade isn’t mentioned so the issue of paying for trade isn’t discussed let alone raised, and we are faced with being in a customs union which,together with the EU determining our trading laws, effectively rules out our ability to conclude any trade deals on our own.currystar said:
Have you read the deal? It does exactly that.AmpfieldAndy said:
That is not the point. Remainers didn’t get what they wanted in the referendum and look how badly they have behaved since - like spoilt brats.Bromptonaut said:
You cain’t always get what you want....AmpfieldAndy said:felix said:With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.
The problem with May’s deal is that it is not worth having at all. It has no merits and it doesn’t even give us back control of our borders, money and laws as he falsely claimed yesterday.0 -
Not yet.GIN1138 said:One thing I missed in all yesterdays hubbub - Did Theresa ever manage to fill the vacant Brexit and Work and Pensions jobs? Or are those seats still empty in the Cabinet?
According to Sam Coates at the Times Gove gave her an ultimatum that he’d only take the job if allowed to renegotiate, at 4.45.0 -
Remember this?AmpfieldAndy said:
That was the sign in the Vote Leave bus. I don’t think any of the Vote Leave campaigners spent too much time on the doorstep discussing the NHS. I didn’t and Leave.EU seemed fixated on immigration almost exclusively.MikeSmithson said:AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
The leave campaign was about more money for the NHS
https://youtu.be/LtlGN8wVnis0 -
Interesting snippet from Portillo:
https://twitter.com/bbcthisweek/status/1063220990845452288
Shame This Week isn't on rather earlier, to be honest.0 -
It's the exact same argument that lost the referendum in the first place.Jonathan said:The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.
Maybe williamglenn is right and she's deliberately manoeuvring herself into a position where she is forced to offer a referendum to avoid no-deal.0 -
1 is already dead. See Merkel and the swedes yesterdayJonathan said:
There are at least three.Benpointer said:
So what do you think the alternaitve is?Jonathan said:The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.
1) Barnier is open to further talks, use the mechanism to extend A50 and continue negotiations
2) Run a referendum with no deal, the deal and no Brexit.
Or
3) Replace the troublesome unloved bespoke backstop agreement with simple re-entry. This solves almost all problems with the deal.
I prefer 2) then 3). But to say there is no alternative is incorrect.0 -
How many Labour rebels will support it ? Honey has already said she will vote against it so I doubt it will be enough to make a difference.HYUFD said:Reports that only 30 to 40 MPs turned up at the ERG meeting yesterday rather than the 80 or so the ERG claim for their caucus. If that is so then May's Deal might even have a chance of getting through with Labour rebels. Plus the ERG was also divided over strategy as they know they lack the votes to topple May now
If the ERG can’t muster 48 votes between them though, they will be a laughing stock andrightly so.0 -
We now have a Deal. If May cannot get her Deal through Parliament it will now likely be EUref2, perhaps even called by May herself.Mortimer said:
HYUFD - the legal default is No deal. Politics needs to happen for that to change in any direction.HYUFD said:
For goodness sake only 32% back No Deal in Sky's poll yesterday, that is even less popular than the poll tax.murali_s said:Also, as a country we should back May's deal. It's the only deal in town, even though it's obviously inferior to remaining in the EU.
The default to this deal is a hard Brexit. I wish the default was the status-quo (remaining in the EU) but sadly it isn't.
The default without this deal will end up being Remain, the question then is just when not if
We’re not led by sentient opinion polls.
No Deal now means riots on the streets with less than a third support for it that make the poll tax riots look like a picnic and the collapse of the £, the stock exchange and the economy. I repeat No Deal means it is a question of when not if we stay in the EU before next March or we rejoin the EEA with full single market and customs union membership after
Brexiteers better realise this Deal is the best Brexit they will get
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Ah yesrcs1000 said:
I invented them, obviously.NickPalmer said:
Where do you get these figures? They are in stark contrast to polling so far (Rory Stewart got in trouble for saying something similar - he had to admit he'd conjured them up).rcs1000 said:
It is the deal that 50% of Remainers and 75% of Leavers are happy with. It is the deal that reflects the fact that the vote was a close one.
But I'm basing them on the pb-selectorate. A clear majority of PB-leavers are supportive of the deal, and around half of PB-remainers..
Another anecdote is from my poker game last night - mostly working-class Leavers who I think are generally Tory (it's Surrey), quite vocal about it (usually we don't talk politics). They think it's all a shambles, the deal is rubbish and May should resign and make way for some unspecified leader to sort it out. It doesn't make them pro-Labour, though - they just feel fed up.
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You may be right.. but the movement could be either way.Mysticrose said:You're much too hasty Mike.
Events dear boy, events.
Watch the next 72 hours ...
I still think the view expressed on here - that the deal's not too bad and most people just want it to be got on with - has some merit.
Although I was surprised by the vehemence and unanimity against it in the Commons yesterday, it might not take too many constituency chairmen getting grief from their business chums on the golf course this week to soften it.
At the same time, the ultras on both sides might realise it's a complete coin toss if this fails whether they get No Deal or Remain, and decide this is the least worst option.
Apart from the vote in parliament, yesterday was the biggest chance to disrupt this. Had Mordaunt and Gove jumped with Raab and McVey, AND 48 letters gone in, it may have proved fatal. But every day she and the deal go on, they're stronger than they were the day before.0 -
No but it's odd for a PM not to be able to immediately fill vacant Cabinet positions?tlg86 said:
Not filling Brexit Secretary doesn't seem that big a deal. As for DWP, it's not as though anything major's happening in that department, is it?GIN1138 said:One thing I missed in all yesterdays hubbub - Did Theresa ever manage to fill the vacant Brexit and Work and Pensions jobs? Or are those seats still empty in the Cabinet?
Just add's to the feeling that Theresa May's had it!0 -
Barnier explicitly did not rule it out at his press conference. I take Merkel's comments as an attempt to be helpful. If push came to shove, I expect that Barnier would restart talks. The optics of refusing talks are not good.Slackbladder said:
1 is already dead. See Merkel and the swedes yesterdayJonathan said:
There are at least three.Benpointer said:
So what do you think the alternaitve is?Jonathan said:The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.
1) Barnier is open to further talks, use the mechanism to extend A50 and continue negotiations
2) Run a referendum with no deal, the deal and no Brexit.
Or
3) Replace the troublesome unloved bespoke backstop agreement with simple re-entry. This solves almost all problems with the deal.
I prefer 2) then 3). But to say there is no alternative is incorrect.0 -
Dominic Cummings, who was looking at the data, credited the NHS bus with getting Leave over the line. The official leave campaign feared that Farage banging on about immigrants all the time was driving voters away. Of course, this could be because they'd already banked the anti-immigration vote.AmpfieldAndy said:
That was the sign in the Vote Leave bus. I don’t think any of the Vote Leave campaigners spent too much time on the doorstep discussing the NHS. I didn’t and Leave.EU seemed fixated on immigration almost exclusively.MikeSmithson said:AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
The leave campaign was about more money for the NHS0 -
I thought that it would:AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
- stop us paying for the CAP.
- stop freedom of movement.
I think in all circumstances we have to follow regulations in the single market if we want to sell into the single market, so I don't see any scenario - except some sort of self-defeating trade war - where we do not have to follow EU law to some extent.
Your side have won. My side lost. Rejoice?0 -
One of the problems of prioritising opinion polling over legislation on the statute book is that you don’t properly understand the legislation.HYUFD said:
We now have a Deal. If May cannot get her Deal through Parliament it will now likely be EUref2, perhaps even called by May herself.Mortimer said:
HYUFD - the legal default is No deal. Politics needs to happen for that to change in any direction.HYUFD said:
For goodness sake only 32% back No Deal in Sky's poll yesterday, that is even less popular than the poll tax.murali_s said:Also, as a country we should back May's deal. It's the only deal in town, even though it's obviously inferior to remaining in the EU.
The default to this deal is a hard Brexit. I wish the default was the status-quo (remaining in the EU) but sadly it isn't.
The default without this deal will end up being Remain, the question then is just when not if
We’re not led by sentient opinion polls.
No Deal now means riots on the streets with less than a third support for it that make the poll tax riots look like a picnic and the collapse of the £, the stock exchange and the economy. I repeat No Deal means it is a question of when not if we stay in the EU before next March or we rejoin the EEA with full single market and customs union membership after
Brexiteers better realise this Deal is the best Brexit they will get
I reluctantly support the deal, but telling people that No deal wont be the outcome of voting it down is irresponsible when that is what the laws point to.
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You can watch the whole thing on iplayer right now (that's actually the best way of watching it as you can fast-forward through all of the annoying/glib bits)Morris_Dancer said:Interesting snippet from Portillo:
https://twitter.com/bbcthisweek/status/1063220990845452288
Shame This Week isn't on rather earlier, to be honest.
Portillo's prediction is that it will be the Cabinet that does May in when they realize the deal won't get through Parliament and as Theresa won't abandon it they'll have to abandon her (to save the government and their jobs)0 -
Edit: Someone beat me to it, leave NHS advert...0
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Surely there is little harm in leaving a role empty for a day or 2 whilst you find a suitable candidate and the junior people handle anything ultra-critical.GIN1138 said:
No but it's odd for a PM not to be able to immediately fill vacant Cabinet positions?tlg86 said:
Not filling Brexit Secretary doesn't seem that big a deal. As for DWP, it's not as though anything major's happening in that department, is it?GIN1138 said:One thing I missed in all yesterdays hubbub - Did Theresa ever manage to fill the vacant Brexit and Work and Pensions jobs? Or are those seats still empty in the Cabinet?
Just add's to the feeling that Theresa May's had it!
Now if the role isn't filled by Tuesday next week that's a different matter.0 -
Yep - but how that change what I said about issues on the doorstep. How much time in the televised debates was spent in the NHS. Not much.williamglenn said:
Remember this?AmpfieldAndy said:
That was the sign in the Vote Leave bus. I don’t think any of the Vote Leave campaigners spent too much time on the doorstep discussing the NHS. I didn’t and Leave.EU seemed fixated on immigration almost exclusively.MikeSmithson said:AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
The leave campaign was about more money for the NHS
https://youtu.be/LtlGN8wVnis0 -
Are yes hearsay and 'widely reported' - always tell the truth!RochdalePioneers said:
Ah yes, looking at stats instead of what is actually happening on the streets and being widely reported.DavidL said:
I think arguing that the massive reduction in crime over recent years (despite the politicians frenzy to create ever more absurd new crimes and our obsession with historic sex) is entirely down to the reduction in police numbers is extreme. There must be other factors.RochdalePioneers said:And now she's saying her massive police cuts aren't responsible for the massive cut in police numbers and the impact on crime
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How much was spent on the Customs Union or avoiding an Irish Sea border?AmpfieldAndy said:
Yep - but how that change what I said about issues on the doorstep. How much time in the televised debates was spent in the NHS. Not much.williamglenn said:
Remember this?AmpfieldAndy said:
That was the sign in the Vote Leave bus. I don’t think any of the Vote Leave campaigners spent too much time on the doorstep discussing the NHS. I didn’t and Leave.EU seemed fixated on immigration almost exclusively.MikeSmithson said:AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
The leave campaign was about more money for the NHS
https://youtu.be/LtlGN8wVnis0 -
Don’t know much about the economy then do you. Exporters always have to comply with the trade regs of the country to whom they export. That is as true for U.K. companies exporting to the EU under Singke Marketrukes as it is for U.K. exporters selling to the US under WTO rules.not_on_fire said:
Well tough, the reality of the modern global economy is that common rules need to be followed between countries. It would of course far more preferably to have kept the status that meant we actually had a say in them.AmpfieldAndy said:
How does it actually gives back control of those. It says nothing about immigration, our trading laws are determined by Brussels with us having g no say; trade isn’t mentioned so the issue of paying for trade isn’t discussed let alone raised, and we are faced with being in a customs union which,together with the EU determining our trading laws, effectively rules out our ability to conclude any trade deals on our own.currystar said:
Have you read the deal? It does exactly that.AmpfieldAndy said:
That is not the point. Remainers didn’t get what they wanted in the referendum and look how badly they have behaved since - like spoilt brats.Bromptonaut said:
You cain’t always get what you want....AmpfieldAndy said:felix said:With apologies to the sensible 'Leavers' I now would prefer a second referendum in which I'd repeat my Remain vote and be moderately confident of victory. for me the antics of the 'ultras' have negated my willingness to accept the original result.
I voted Leave because I wanted a trade deal with the EU and nothing else. May should have stuck with David Davis’ approach. If there is a second referendum I shall still vote Leave. I think the behaviour of the Remoaners who have failed to respect the original referendum is abhorrent. They deserve a Corbyn Gov. Leavers do not.
The problem with May’s deal is that it is not worth having at all. It has no merits and it doesn’t even give us back control of our borders, money and laws as he falsely claimed yesterday.
It doesn’t affect in the slightest how we choose to regulate our domestic economy and there is no sensible reason whatsoever for us to bind our domestic economy, which is 80% of our GDP, by the rules of the Single Market.0 -
That is exactly what appeared with the "my deal or no deal or no Brexit" choice she conjured up yesterday.OblitusSumMe said:
It's the exact same argument that lost the referendum in the first place.Jonathan said:The only argument she has got is that ‘no deal is terrible’ therefore you have to sign up to this deal, there is no alternative.
Not only is that not true, but it severely limits her ability to convince others.
Maybe williamglenn is right and she's deliberately manoeuvring herself into a position where she is forced to offer a referendum to avoid no-deal.
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Not a lot but the fact that so much time has been negotiating those is a reflection of how the EU has outnegotiated Britain and how foolish it was of May not to concentrate on trade rather than chasing after some kind of special relationship with the EU whichthe EU clearly don’t want.Freggles said:
How much was spent on the Customs Union or avoiding an Irish Sea border?AmpfieldAndy said:
Yep - but how that change what I said about issues on the doorstep. How much time in the televised debates was spent in the NHS. Not much.williamglenn said:
Remember this?AmpfieldAndy said:
That was the sign in the Vote Leave bus. I don’t think any of the Vote Leave campaigners spent too much time on the doorstep discussing the NHS. I didn’t and Leave.EU seemed fixated on immigration almost exclusively.MikeSmithson said:AmpfieldAndy said:rcs1000 said:
And Mrs May does not understand that?AmpfieldAndy said:
Leave win because it secured 52% of the votes compared to Remain’s 48%.rcs1000 said:
Leave won because Northern Ireland doesn't want to be connected economically with the Republic?AmpfieldAndy said:JRM has been all mouth and no trousers for a long time but yesterday, finally, he did actually act. Mrs May doesn’t have a monopoly on brains, has produced a dire Brexit that is actually worse than staying in the EU and has fundamentally misunderstood why Leave won. To deliver such an cataclysmic climb down as her Brexit deal, she has sacriced the Gov’s entire domestic policy agenda which is an abdication of good government.
JRM did the right thing yesterday. If Brady doesn’t get his 48 letters, it will say a lot more about the gutless winders on the Tory back benches than it will about JRM himself.
Well, it's a view.
How does her deal deliver anything that reflects why voted Leave ? It doesn’t give us control of anything - not our money, not our borders, and not our laws let alone anything else.
The leave campaign was about more money for the NHS
https://youtu.be/LtlGN8wVnis0
