politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Raab’s resignation sparks off huge movements on the TMay exit,
Comments
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It's taken all the risk out of Labour's decision - I think they'll unaminously vote against the deal, or near enough. Nandy, Flint and others can just point at the lack of support amongst the Tories and say "How can we vote for this deal when they can't vote for it themselves".El_Capitano said:Thornberry is loving this.
Makes life very easy for what should have been a tricky time for Corbyn.0 -
We could be four wickets down before the deficit is erased.Scrapheap_as_was said:This is more serious - from BBC cricket
Phil Burdekin: Since 9am there have been more cabinet resignations then Sri Lankan wickets...0 -
I agree he has been briefed well for this. Somebody has done the legwork.RochdalePioneers said:Corbyn picking at the scabs on the Tory benches. His speech is offering up to angry Tories all the things they hate that remain in the deal
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Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.0
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Ken ClarkeMarqueeMark said:
Brian Blessed.rottenborough said:
Brian Cox.RochdalePioneers said:There is nothing in law requiring the PM to be a Member of Parliament - indeed all of them spend election campaigns not as an MP. So why just look to the tired members of the green benches.
Possible leaders of the National Government
Nigel Farrage
Tony Blair
Alan Sugar
Howling Laud Hope
Jane Horrocks (it worked on The Amazing Mrs Pritchard0 -
They didn't.GIN1138 said:
Remain is better than May's deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain nowGIN1138 said:Will the last person to leave Her Majesty's Government please turn out the lights...
But make no mistake the Conservatives will rue the day they went against the referendum result.0 -
I think you are right. I really don’t see how we avoid a second referendum now.Pulpstar said:
@Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.kle4 said:
Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.El_Capitano said:0 -
Who resigns at 11? Maybe Hunt-Javid-Gove will all go together....?0
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Corbyn looking strong today. Hope he's ready.0
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Corbyn-"the current Prime Minister". Ouch.0
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And then whatPulpstar said:
It's taken all the risk out of Labour's decision - I think they'll unaminously vote against the deal.El_Capitano said:Thornberry is loving this.
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Blimey Corbyn is doing a good job.
Didn't think I'd ever write those words.0 -
Hate to say it but May is so atrocious Corbyn is coming across as forensic and Prime Ministerial in comparison. What has she done!?
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There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.0
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Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.Pulpstar said:
@Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.kle4 said:
Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.El_Capitano said:0 -
Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.david_herdson said:
- A GE can't support her position; it would deliver govt to Lab. Not an option for her.dixiedean said:
She needs to do something radical.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She is not going to make a suicidal offer to labour, though how long she stays in office is another questiongrabcocque said:
It's looking like she's going to be out of office today anyway. She's got nothing left to lose. ROLL THOSE DICE.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She would be out of office the day she suggested itgrabcocque said:
I thought of that, but I don't think the SNP would take Indyref2 now, they want to do it in a couple of years when the Brexit backlash is at its nastiest in Scotland.Jonathan said:
A referendum or an election.grabcocque said:Jonathan said:The fundamental fact in all this is that May does not have the votes in the HoC. She needs to make a bold offer to someone.
The SNP an IndyRef to opt-out of the deal.
Labour a 1 Mar General Election.
or
A second referendum. Deal, No Deal or No Brexit.
But yes: if May made an agreement to form a grand coalition with Corbyn that lasts until the day after the deal is voted through Parliament followed by an immediate dissolution and early Jan election?
Corbyn would go for that.
It is Hail Mary time.
GE 2nd referendum, national govt, article 50 withdrawal or resignation.
Nothing has changed is not an option.
- A national government isn't possible because there aren't the MPs to support it.
- A 2nd referendum? On what? And is it worth weeks of parliamentary fighting to deliver a vote that results in a murky mandate?
- A50 withdrawal is legally dubious: the Notification Act only gave her the right to notify the EU of the UK's intention to leave; not its intention to remain. On top of which is whether it's legally possible under EU law. And either way, she'd be No Confidenced. Not an option.
- Resignation is certainly a possibility but doesn't get anywhere closer to a solution.
I think she has to prepare for the deal being voted down and to lay out *now* what that means - which is going back to Brussels to get a revision. In reality, the only revisions possible - to my mind - are to trade an even closer transitional relationship, with NI and GB on the same basis, for a proper (unilateral or time-limited) break clause. The Tory Ultras won't like it but it has to be explored before No Deal becomes inevitable.0 -
This must be Starmer's script. It's very good.0
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This is very interesting. For once, Corbyn's audience isn't 10-second clips on Facebook. It's the opposite benches. The ERG will be agreeing with pretty much everything he says. (EDIT: oh, he's just cited the single market. Maybe not everything then...)0
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I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.
Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.0 -
It's a The Smiths joke I think.Beverley_C said:
I wonder what they are in panic about? The bosses have resigned, put up your feet and stick the kettle on. No work to do today, but govt is busy collapsing.AlastairMeeks said:
The lyrics rather work too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c0 -
Between them the Tories have just destroyed whatever reputation they might still have for competence in government.
Those manoeuvring for the leadership are probably fighting to take control of a corpse. And none of them will have Hague's consolation of a reputation for amusing speeches in the Commons.0 -
Once the resignations die down Im still expecting her deal to narrowly pass, though maybe at the second attempt if she's allowed to return to Brussels. If she survives today she's pretty much bulletproof and I suspect she will.0
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Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.kle4 said:
Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.Pulpstar said:
@Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.kle4 said:
Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.El_Capitano said:0 -
She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.IanB2 said:Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.
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Err... no. It is inevitable that we crash out with No Deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain now
No Deal is the default position. If we run out of time, or govts or referenda then we get No Deal.
Brexit is still on for March 29th0 -
Clearly you are not watchingIshmael_Z said:Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.
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That was a storming Corbyn performance0
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What Tim Montgomerie and Chukka have said this morning is exactly right. The Brexit sold to the British people by the Leave campaign could never ever happen, the deal May has got is the only deal we will ever get.0
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Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.AlastairMeeks said:There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.
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Panic at the Disco, surely?Philip_Thompson said:
It's a The Smiths joke I think.Beverley_C said:
I wonder what they are in panic about? The bosses have resigned, put up your feet and stick the kettle on. No work to do today, but govt is busy collapsing.AlastairMeeks said:
The lyrics rather work too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c0 -
Of the people at cabinet yesterday, Raab should at least have been more au fait with the contents of the deal than anybody else. If it was clear that the cabinet were going to support it, and he felt that he, in all conscience, couldn't, why didn't he do a Heseltine there and then, rather than apparently signing up to it and then going the next day (a question which could have been asked of Davis and Johnson after Chequers, come to that).
Of course, his track record with his knowledge of the importance of Dover indicates that perhaps he isn't the sharpest knife in the box. Why he should therefore have jumped to the top of the betting for next Con leader just indicates that nobody's looking for a Churchill to get us out of this mess.
As for McVey, pfft. What a loss to humankind, he said sarcastically.0 -
The Corbyn-ERG block, looks like November really has spawned a monster.El_Capitano said:This is very interesting. For once, Corbyn's audience isn't 10-second clips on Facebook. It's the opposite benches. The ERG will be agreeing with pretty much everything he says. (EDIT: oh, he's just cited the single market. Maybe not everything then...)
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Good news on the resignations. Perhaps we can now have a Brexit secretary that knows where France is, and a Work Secretary who isn’t an congenital liar.0
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So, to summarise:
1. It's Chequers (+/-)
2. It has been obvious since, er, Chequers that it would be Chequers.
3. Anyone sensible on here has known this since, er, Chequers.
4. Only morons and utter, utter Brexit twats could ever have been under the impression that it would or could be anything else.
You know who you are.0 -
So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?0
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You should form a double-act.Xenon said:
No. The disaster was signing up to a project that the British people didn't want to be part of and that is seemingly impossible to get out of.JosiasJessop said:
Brexit is an educated thought ????Philip_Thompson said:
Belief in a policy, belief it was the right thing to do. Religions aren't the only things that require belief.JosiasJessop said:
" ... by those who didn't believe in Brexit. "Philip_Thompson said:
Utter bullshit. If this is what we'd voted for it would be getting lapped up by Leavers. Its patently obvious this is some meally mouthed bullshit cooked up by those who didn't believe in Brexit.JosiasJessop said:
What bullshit. This is what you voted for. It doesn't matter what flights of fancy fluttered through your fevered, deranged imagination: it was obvious that the two leave options could not be reconciled.MarqueeMark said:
I'd accept that - if the current shit-show hadn't had Remainer ring-masters.JosiasJessop said:
You're a leaver. You argued for leave.MarqueeMark said:The deal that Theresa May and Olly Robbins have cooked up is what happens when you task vegans with making a meat pie.
You own this, and you own the consequences.
Olly Robbins has done nothing in my name. Or in my cause.
I blame Gove for where we are.
And you're doing exactly what leavers were doing before the referendum: it isn't our fault; it's the EU's fault.
There's always someone else for you to blame for your own fuckup.
May said 2 things that were true: no deal is better than a bad deal and in order to deliver Brexit you need to believe in Brexit. May and Robbins didn't believe in Brexit and have come up with a turd of a deal.
Ah, yes Brexit as a faith. Brexit as a religion. Believe in Brexit, for those with the true faith will sit at the right hand of Farage.
I believe lower taxes improve economic growth, that's not a religion its an educated thought.
Ha
You should be on the stage. Brexit is a fucking disaster, and it was alwayts going to be a fucking disaster due to leave's stance during the referendum. There's nothing 'educated' about it, however many educated people fell pray to the religion.
Which one of you wants to be Bart SImpson as the 'I didn't do it' kid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVteemLin40 -
Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.Philip_Thompson said:
She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.IanB2 said:Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.
Not picked up so far0 -
Referendum or GE. Or referendum then a GE since one is inevitable as the gov has lost its majority and cannot last as minority while so divided.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And then whatPulpstar said:
It's taken all the risk out of Labour's decision - I think they'll unaminously vote against the deal.El_Capitano said:Thornberry is loving this.
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What?bigjohnowls said:
Clearly you are not watchingIshmael_Z said:Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.
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I feel a little sorry for Mrs May. A goldfish among sharks. She remains at heart a Remainer and tried to secure a deal the Remainers might accept. But Labour will vote against it, because of a visceral hatred of Tories. We'll end up in a no-deal Brexit and the two parties will blame each other.
Yes, the deal could work if we could trust the good will of Europe, and therein lies the problem. We can't, but as a Remainer, Mrs May can't see that. "Oh, look, there's that nice Mr Shark, I must go over and ask about his hungry family."0 -
Isn't TSE still between jobs?AlastairMeeks said:So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?
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Because the whole thing's a game of chess. I believe their positions are heartfelt and principled. But not that heartfelt and principled that they'd risk their position in the future leadership jstling.DayTripper said:Of the people at cabinet yesterday, Raab should at least have been more au fait with the contents of the deal than anybody else. If it was clear that the cabinet were going to support it, and he felt that he, in all conscience, couldn't, why didn't he do a Heseltine there and then, rather than apparently signing up to it and then going the next day (a question which could have been asked of Davis and Johnson after Chequers, come to that).
Of course, his track record with his knowledge of the importance of Dover indicates that perhaps he isn't the sharpest knife in the box. Why he should therefore have jumped to the top of the betting for next Con leader just indicates that nobody's looking for a Churchill to get us out of this mess.
As for McVey, pfft. What a loss to humankind, he said sarcastically.
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She seems reasonably calm.Bob__Sykes said:I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.
Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.0 -
What? Everyone else is saying Corbyn did well there. Words I've never uttered in my life but Corbyn looks in this exchange like the one who should be Prime Minister.bigjohnowls said:
Clearly you are not watchingIshmael_Z said:Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.
For the record he should not. But in this exchange he is the one on top.0 -
Cometh The hour - Cometh The Corbyn!Mysticrose said:That was a storming Corbyn performance
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There's no option that will heal divisions. Given that, best to just try to winglw said:
Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.kle4 said:
Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.Pulpstar said:
@Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.kle4 said:
Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.El_Capitano said:0 -
Love the idea of Brian Blessed for PM. Imagine having to negotiate with him...
I'm 200 miles from Parliament. But would be able to him his statement to the house without it being broadcast0 -
Hang the blessed T May?Philip_Thompson said:
It's a The Smiths joke I think.Beverley_C said:
I wonder what they are in panic about? The bosses have resigned, put up your feet and stick the kettle on. No work to do today, but govt is busy collapsing.AlastairMeeks said:
The lyrics rather work too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c0 -
I've heard that's fairly common in the condemned when they gaze up at the noose.rottenborough said:
She seems reasonably calm.Bob__Sykes said:I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.
Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.-1 -
No ‘Norway for now’ is a slogan, it wasn’t anything more than that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.Philip_Thompson said:
She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.IanB2 said:Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.
Not picked up so far0 -
Maybotrottenborough said:
She seems reasonably calm.Bob__Sykes said:I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.
Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.
It's a slightly disturbing feature about her. She ought to be more ruffled if she's a normal human being.0 -
That's true but it is now the least worst option.glw said:
Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.kle4 said:
Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.Pulpstar said:
@Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.kle4 said:
Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.El_Capitano said:0 -
Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.kle4 said:
Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.AlastairMeeks said:There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.
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Breaking. Looks like Rory is finally going to make Cabinet.0
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Dont tell IshmaelzMysticrose said:That was a storming Corbyn performance
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Mike Smithson.AlastairMeeks said:So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?
Although he'd probably have to lay off the political gambling for a bit, mind.
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Ken Clarke is a soothing voice0
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Just to re-emphasize one point.
May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.
The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.
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T-5 till the next Cab Scab?
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They must believe that, somehow, for someone, a no-deal Brexit will be better than any compromise with the EU.AlastairMeeks said:There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.
It's a recklessness rarely seen. Around what standard will opponents to this recklessness rally? Neither May nor Corbyn are convincing. Perhaps the recklessness will carry the day.0 -
Exactly. And with a Corbyn government. An utter disaster for the country.Beverley_C said:
Err... no. It is inevitable that we crash out with No Deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain now
No Deal is the default position. If we run out of time, or govts or referenda then we get No Deal.
Brexit is still on for March 29th
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I've banged on all along that Norway was impossible. I advocated, and essentially we've got Turkey++, which again was the only viable deal that was ever going to happen (Given NI) - getting the whole of the UK into the customs backstop territory was actually a bit of a coup.Mortimer said:
No ‘Norway for now’ is a slogan, it wasn’t anything more than that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.Philip_Thompson said:
She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.IanB2 said:Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.
Not picked up so far0 -
A government of unity would involve Jezza joining Tories. Can't see that happening.AlastairMeeks said:So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?
General election and Corbyn as PM is my best guess but who knows?0 -
Because what she says no longer matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.Philip_Thompson said:
She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.IanB2 said:Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.
Not picked up so far0 -
Gardening leave until May 2019.kle4 said:
Isn't TSE still between jobs?AlastairMeeks said:So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?
Am specifically enjoined from taking gainful employment until then.
I suppose I could be PM without a salary.0 -
Be Brexit secretrary. That seems to be about the least gainful occupation mankind has ever devised.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gardening leave until May 2019.kle4 said:
Isn't TSE still between jobs?AlastairMeeks said:So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?
Am specifically enjoined from taking gainful employment until then.
I suppose I could be PM without a salary.0 -
So, it all fails because we 'can't trust Europe'?CD13 said:I feel a little sorry for Mrs May. A goldfish among sharks. She remains at heart a Remainer and tried to secure a deal the Remainers might accept. But Labour will vote against it, because of a visceral hatred of Tories. We'll end up in a no-deal Brexit and the two parties will blame each other.
Yes, the deal could work if we could trust the good will of Europe, and therein lies the problem. We can't, but as a Remainer, Mrs May can't see that. "Oh, look, there's that nice Mr Shark, I must go over and ask about his hungry family."
Sorry mate, you're rationalising.0 -
Can we keep away from sentiments expressed in your last sentence.grabcocque said:
I've heard that's fairly common in people when they gaze up at the noose.rottenborough said:
She seems reasonably calm.Bob__Sykes said:I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.
Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.0 -
I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......0
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No, because "Norway for now" is the informal title of the option. The "for now" wasn't hers.kle4 said:
Because what she says no longer matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.Philip_Thompson said:
She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.IanB2 said:Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.
Not picked up so far0 -
What are you talking about?JosiasJessop said:
You should form a double-act.Xenon said:
No. The disaster was signing up to a project that the British people didn't want to be part of and that is seemingly impossible to get out of.JosiasJessop said:
Brexit is an educated thought ????Philip_Thompson said:
Belief in a policy, belief it was the right thing to do. Religions aren't the only things that require belief.JosiasJessop said:
" ... by those who didn't believe in Brexit. "Philip_Thompson said:
Utter bullshit. If this is what we'd voted for it would be getting lapped up by Leavers. Its patently obvious this is some meally mouthed bullshit cooked up by those who didn't believe in Brexit.JosiasJessop said:
What bullshit. This is what you voted for. It doesn't matter what flights of fancy fluttered through your fevered, deranged imagination: it was obvious that the two leave options could not be reconciled.MarqueeMark said:
I'd accept that - if the current shit-show hadn't had Remainer ring-masters.JosiasJessop said:
You're a leaver. You argued for leave.MarqueeMark said:The deal that Theresa May and Olly Robbins have cooked up is what happens when you task vegans with making a meat pie.
You own this, and you own the consequences.
Olly Robbins has done nothing in my name. Or in my cause.
I blame Gove for where we are.
And you're doing exactly what leavers were doing before the referendum: it isn't our fault; it's the EU's fault.
There's always someone else for you to blame for your own fuckup.
May said 2 things that were true: no deal is better than a bad deal and in order to deliver Brexit you need to believe in Brexit. May and Robbins didn't believe in Brexit and have come up with a turd of a deal.
Ah, yes Brexit as a faith. Brexit as a religion. Believe in Brexit, for those with the true faith will sit at the right hand of Farage.
I believe lower taxes improve economic growth, that's not a religion its an educated thought.
Ha
You should be on the stage. Brexit is a fucking disaster, and it was alwayts going to be a fucking disaster due to leave's stance during the referendum. There's nothing 'educated' about it, however many educated people fell pray to the religion.
Which one of you wants to be Bart SImpson as the 'I didn't do it' kid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVteemLin40 -
Remain is arguably the most chaotic option, but we all know its unlikelykle4 said:
That's true but it is now the least worst option.glw said:
Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.kle4 said:
Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.Pulpstar said:
@Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.kle4 said:
Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.El_Capitano said:0 -
Not yet sold but Scotland so I am intensly relaxed as offer accepted.AlastairMeeks said:I cannot tell you how glad I am that I have already exchanged on my flat sale now.
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I had rather hoped at crunch time enough could accept a level of compromise, but how wrong I was. What a right wally I have been.AlastairMeeks said:
Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.kle4 said:
Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.AlastairMeeks said:There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.
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That's not actually inevitable, is it? There's a mechanism by which we can extend the exit in order to obtain the best negotiation.Beverley_C said:Just to re-emphasize one point.
May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.
The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.0 -
who says that a deal will not be done this time between the final two candidates?williamglenn said:0 -
Blair didn't want May's deal.MarqueeMark said:I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......
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I can't help but imagine this as part of a Dead Ringers piece featuring the "National Treasures".RochdalePioneers said:Love the idea of Brian Blessed for PM. Imagine having to negotiate with him...
I'm 200 miles from Parliament. But would be able to him his statement to the house without it being broadcast0 -
Meeks was selling in the big smoke though, I think that's where immediate fallout from no deal hits hardest.Alistair said:
Not yet sold but Scotland so I am intensly relaxed as offer accepted.AlastairMeeks said:I cannot tell you how glad I am that I have already exchanged on my flat sale now.
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Basically that's it. They spent their life railing against something, expecting to fail and, deep down, quite possibly wanting to fail lest success denied them an everlasting fix. So why do any real thinking or planning?AlastairMeeks said:
Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.kle4 said:
Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.AlastairMeeks said:There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.
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Perhaps you misread "competent" for "incompetent" in my post? If metaphors are too difficult for you, what I was saying was that Corbyn had been given an easy job to do, and was doing it well.bigjohnowls said:
Dont tell IshmaelzMysticrose said:That was a storming Corbyn performance
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Or that only one name will emerge and be elected unopposed?TheWhiteRabbit said:
who says that a deal will not be done this time between the final two candidates?williamglenn said:
The obvious choice for a caretaker (from a Tory perspective) is David Davis.0 -
Blair wants the deal to fail.MarqueeMark said:I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......
This idea that just because Leavers hate the deal, Remainers must love it is very weird, MM. I think the sooner you disabuse yourself of it the sooner you'll start understanding what's actually motivating the various actors here.0 -
Nearly 11:00 Bets on next resignation?
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Blackford is hopeless, though. We lost Charlie Kennedy for this.0
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Settle for nothing less than PM, Rory.....rottenborough said:0 -
Certainly the argument for a appointment (possibly a caretaker?) and avoiding an election is stronger now than last time.TheWhiteRabbit said:
who says that a deal will not be done this time between the final two candidates?williamglenn said:0 -
It's the status quo until someone makes a change. Who can now command a majority of the House? No-one, and so the likelihood of changing the status quo is slim.Mysticrose said:
That's not actually inevitable, is it? There's a mechanism by which we can extend the exit in order to obtain the best negotiation.Beverley_C said:Just to re-emphasize one point.
May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.
The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.0 -
Was. Leavers won't accept a deal. Getting a new deal is unlikely. Parliament seems intent on avoiding no deal. Remain emerges as an option.Brom said:
Remain is arguably the most chaotic option, but we all know its unlikelykle4 said:
That's true but it is now the least worst option.glw said:
Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.kle4 said:
Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.Pulpstar said:
@Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.kle4 said:
Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.El_Capitano said:0 -
11AM - Do we get another resignation? 0
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Time to start buying dry goods..... has your Cumbrian hideaway got a large pantry? Fish will be a good addition to your diet and all the cockles you can eatCyclefree said:
Exactly. And with a Corbyn government. An utter disaster for the country.Beverley_C said:
Err... no. It is inevitable that we crash out with No Deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain now
No Deal is the default position. If we run out of time, or govts or referenda then we get No Deal.
Brexit is still on for March 29th
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Blair is pushing the country towards no dealStereotomy said:
Blair wants the deal to fail.MarqueeMark said:I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......
This idea that just because Leavers hate the deal, Remainers must love it is very weird, MM. I think the sooner you disabuse yourself of it the sooner you'll start understanding what's actually motivating the various actors here.0 -
Yes, so much for "it's leavers who will suffer the most".Pulpstar said:
Meeks was selling in the big smoke though, I think that's where immediate fallout from no deal hits hardest.Alistair said:
Not yet sold but Scotland so I am intensly relaxed as offer accepted.AlastairMeeks said:I cannot tell you how glad I am that I have already exchanged on my flat sale now.
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I reckon a new leader would win HUGE parliamentary backing for a 12 month delay in order to sort this out.OblitusSumMe said:
It's the status quo until someone makes a change. Who can now command a majority of the House? No-one, and so the likelihood of changing the status quo is slim.Mysticrose said:
That's not actually inevitable, is it? There's a mechanism by which we can extend the exit in order to obtain the best negotiation.Beverley_C said:Just to re-emphasize one point.
May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.
The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.0 -
That’s because you are sensible and reasonable. You’d be a terrible politician!kle4 said:
I had rather hoped at crunch time enough could accept a level of compromise, but how wrong I was. What a right wally I have been.AlastairMeeks said:
Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.kle4 said:
Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.AlastairMeeks said:There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.
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The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.Xenon said:
What are you talking about?JosiasJessop said:
You should form a double-act.
Which one of you wants to be Bart SImpson as the 'I didn't do it' kid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVteemLin4
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.0
