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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay falls further behind Corbyn in latest YouGov favourabilit

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  • Looks like John Inman.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    edited November 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM

    Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.

    Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
  • Scott_P said:
    The whole point of Brexit is to diverge and increased competition is a good thing not a dirty word. Only once we leave this sclerotic union behind will we be able to compete better with the rest of the world that has outgrown the EU consistently.

    Trying to tie ourselves down so we aren't competitive is not a good idea and Barnier demonstrates here precisely why we need to leave. Thank you Scott_P for so eloquently demonstrating why remaining in an organisation that believes to be competitive is not acceptable is so necessary.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,993
    edited November 2017
    Whatever the favourability/unfavourability ratings on Yougov for Corbyn or May. Neither inspire!

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
    If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
    The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults.
    Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
    You're right.
    David Davis is furious at moves by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to team up on Brexit and will resist their attempts to pressed contempt for Mr Davis, calling him a “f***wit”.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-secretary-david-davis-angry-at-interference-by-michael-gove-and-boris-johnson-vn8xtd9dp
    This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance?
    Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
    I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    The whole point of Brexit is to diverge and increased competition is a good thing not a dirty word. Only once we leave this sclerotic union behind will we be able to compete better with the rest of the world that has outgrown the EU consistently.

    Trying to tie ourselves down so we aren't competitive is not a good idea and Barnier demonstrates here precisely why we need to leave. Thank you Scott_P for so eloquently demonstrating why remaining in an organisation that believes to be competitive is not acceptable is so necessary.

    That interview with Mr Chope posted earlier also mentioned that the EU was attempting to fetter any future trade agreements we signed with third parties as part of the exit agreement.

    To add insult to injury, the EU’s negotiators are insisting that any future trade relationship should be made conditional upon a whole raft of protectionist and anti-competitive requirements which would severely handicap the UK’s freedom to negotiate genuine free trade deals with the rest of the world.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    I'm Free Trade.....
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    This will come as a shock, but no-one finds you as influential as you clearly do.....

    I have never claimed any influence, but my legion of fans seem to think otherwise
    Does anyone's individual vote ever influence the result? No. Is it nonetheless the case that by not casting it you lose the right to moan? Yes. And if you want to moan like a dockside hooker, the question of what you actually did in the war, daddy, beyond casting your own vote, becomes legit.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Another vintage Brexit thread.

    "We left because we want to steal International trade from the EU"

    "Why are they not being nicer to us?"

    It's a puzzle...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The yearbook signature was pretty definitive.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ananavarro: I didn’t think this was humanly possible, but Roy Moore actually makes me miss Jeff Sessions as Senator from Alabama.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    The whole point of Brexit is to diverge and increased competition is a good thing not a dirty word. Only once we leave this sclerotic union behind will we be able to compete better with the rest of the world that has outgrown the EU consistently.

    Trying to tie ourselves down so we aren't competitive is not a good idea and Barnier demonstrates here precisely why we need to leave. Thank you Scott_P for so eloquently demonstrating why remaining in an organisation that believes to be competitive is not acceptable is so necessary.

    That interview with Mr Chope posted earlier also mentioned that the EU was attempting to fetter any future trade agreements we signed with third parties as part of the exit agreement.

    To add insult to injury, the EU’s negotiators are insisting that any future trade relationship should be made conditional upon a whole raft of protectionist and anti-competitive requirements which would severely handicap the UK’s freedom to negotiate genuine free trade deals with the rest of the world.

    If they insisted on that then we would have to go hard Brexit, it would be pointless leaving that control back in the EU's hands.

  • Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
    Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
    She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
    Agreed along with:
    Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid.
    Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back.
    Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves.
    Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.

    Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title.
    Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.

    These people should not be in Parliament.
    None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent

    Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
    She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country.
    I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
    Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
    She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
    Agreed along with:
    Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid.
    Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back.
    Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves.
    Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.

    Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title.
    Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.

    These people should not be in Parliament.
    None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent

    Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
    She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country.
    I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
    Is that all she did?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Scott_P said:

    @ananavarro: I didn’t think this was humanly possible, but Roy Moore actually makes me miss Jeff Sessions as Senator from Alabama.

    Relevant:

    https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/images/photos/politics/graphics/bushbillboard.jpg
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM

    Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.

    Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
    Firstly you are of wrong, both Blair and Cameron led Major and Brown as best PM.

    Secondly Thank you for your wishes but address them to BigG who is having the op and not me
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
    If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
    The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults.
    Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
    You're right.
    David Davis is furious at moves by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to team up on Brexit and will resist their attempts to pressed contempt for Mr Davis, calling him a “f***wit”.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-secretary-david-davis-angry-at-interference-by-michael-gove-and-boris-johnson-vn8xtd9dp
    This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance?
    Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
    I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
    Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit.

    Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCVickiYoung: Rebel alert - Tory Dominic Grieve says he's not willing to suspend his judgement on implementing #Brexit just because he's ordered to.

    @alstewitn: #EUWithdrawalBill Dominic Grieve MP: "#Brexit is a national process of self-mutilation".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term
    What makes you think the EU will agree to that bearing in mind that it has already said there will be no bespoke deal?
    Money
  • HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Scott_P said:
    Arch-Cameroon and founder of 2020 Group bangs pro-EU drum shock!
  • OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM

    Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.

    Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
    Thanks so much but I think it is me having the op not Hyufd unless he is having one to
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Scott_P said:
    His five pensions weren’t enough?
  • Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
    Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
    She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
    Agreed along with:
    Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid.
    Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back.
    Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves.
    Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.

    Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title.
    Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.

    These people should not be in Parliament.
    None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent

    Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
    She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country.
    I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
    I think she has a much bigger charge sheet than that - check out Guido
  • Scott_P said:

    @BBCVickiYoung: Rebel alert - Tory Dominic Grieve says he's not willing to suspend his judgement on implementing #Brexit just because he's ordered to.

    @alstewitn: #EUWithdrawalBill Dominic Grieve MP: "#Brexit is a national process of self-mutilation".

    The numbers for implementing Brexit now look very dicey.
  • RobD said:

    Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
    Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
    She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
    Agreed along with:
    Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid.
    Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back.
    Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves.
    Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.

    Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title.
    Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.

    These people should not be in Parliament.
    None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent

    Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
    She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country.
    I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
    Is that all she did?
    Absolutely not - see Guido
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
    If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
    The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults.
    Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
    You're right.
    David Davis is furious at moves by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to team up on Brexit and will resist their attempts to
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-secretary-david-davis-angry-at-interference-by-michael-gove-and-boris-johnson-vn8xtd9dp
    This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance?
    Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
    I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
    Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit.
    Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
    Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
    If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
    The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults.
    Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
    You're right.
    David Davis is furious at moves by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to team up on Brexit and will resist their attempts to
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-secretary-david-davis-angry-at-interference-by-michael-gove-and-boris-johnson-vn8xtd9dp
    This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance?
    Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
    I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
    Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit.
    Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
    Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
    I am sure they will be happy to have you alongside
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited November 2017
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM

    Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.

    Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
    Thanks so much but I think it is me having the op not Hyufd unless he is having one to
    May I add my voice (*) to the chorus wishing you all the best and a fast recovery.

    (*) Although if you ever hear my voice, you may prefer me to type it instead ... ;)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
  • Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.

    Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.

    [If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    Irish solution is easy.

    Zero tariffs between any country worldwide.

    Indeed. Any border will be only on the EU side of the line.
    It's not a surprise that a protectionist cartel like the EU isn't in favour of wider free trade.

    Perhaps we can convince them of the benefits - like Thatcher did of economic reform and privatisation in the 80s.

    Uk may well be the "early adopters" once again.
    I'm afraid the sort of unregulated and borderless model you suggest has already been tried in Somalia Singapore.
    Fixed that for you.
    :+1:
    That’s what the EU are really worried about, that we’ll become a bigger Switzerland or Singapore, outward looking and willing to trade with the world.
  • ROME — Many tragedies have befallen Italy in the last 60 years. Dozens of governments have collapsed. Earthquakes and terrorism have shaken cities. The French started adding cream to carbonara.

    But the failure of the national soccer team on Monday night to qualify for the World Cup for the first time since 1958 seems to be taking a place in the pantheon of Italian disasters.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/world/europe/italy-world-cup.html
  • OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM

    Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.

    Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
    Thanks so much but I think it is me having the op not Hyufd unless he is having one to
    May I add my voice (*) to the chorus wishing you all the best and a fast recovery.

    (*) Although if you ever hear my voice, you may prefer me to type it instead ... ;)
    Everyone has been so amazing and thank you. I share your problem with voice. As a young choirboy I was only allow to carry the cross and mouth the words on strict orders from the vicar
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
    When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.

    She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
  • ROME — Many tragedies have befallen Italy in the last 60 years. Dozens of governments have collapsed. Earthquakes and terrorism have shaken cities. The French started adding cream to carbonara.

    But the failure of the national soccer team on Monday night to qualify for the World Cup for the first time since 1958 seems to be taking a place in the pantheon of Italian disasters.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/world/europe/italy-world-cup.html

    It is though
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Abramson has a bad reputation for leaping to conclusions from scant evidence.

    That said, Session is clearly going to get prosecuted.
  • RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway. ;)
    I'm not keen on muesli either.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Before the election there used to be many posts from PBTories about Corbyn's net favourability amongst Labour supporters compared to Cameron / May.

    We don't read similar posts anymore about Theresa May.

    Looking at the general public view, when are the Tories going to tell us that Corbyn is a Marxist, friend of Hamas, .......
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2017

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCVickiYoung: Rebel alert - Tory Dominic Grieve says he's not willing to suspend his judgement on implementing #Brexit just because he's ordered to.

    @alstewitn: #EUWithdrawalBill Dominic Grieve MP: "#Brexit is a national process of self-mutilation".

    The numbers for implementing Brexit now look very dicey.
    I simply don't understand what MPs like Grieve are doing. Like most of his colleagues on both the government and opposition benches, he voted for Article 50 to be triggered.
  • Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.

    Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.

    [If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].

    It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.

    The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    surbiton said:

    Before the election there used to be many posts from PBTories about Corbyn's net favourability amongst Labour supporters compared to Cameron / May.

    We don't read similar posts anymore about Theresa May.

    Looking at the general public view, when are the Tories going to tell us that Corbyn is a Marxist, friend of Hamas, .......

    Yeah, now we have Labour posters commenting on the same numbers. :smiley:
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2017
  • Scott_P said:

    @BBCVickiYoung: Rebel alert - Tory Dominic Grieve says he's not willing to suspend his judgement on implementing #Brexit just because he's ordered to.

    @alstewitn: #EUWithdrawalBill Dominic Grieve MP: "#Brexit is a national process of self-mutilation".

    The numbers for implementing Brexit now look very dicey.
    I simply don't understand what MPs like Grieve is doing. Like most of his colleagues on both the government and opposition benches, he voted for Article 50 to be triggered.
    Timing is everything. Then Brexit was irresistible. Now it is possibly resistible and so the unreconciled are resisting.
  • Mr. Meeks, May's lukewarm Remain stance (and poor judgement...) meant she felt she had to go further than a Leave supporter would have done.

    One might argue competence of execution rather than the decisions themselves are the problem, but there we are.

    Anyway, I must be off to perambulate in my rapidly decaying, but comfortable, boots.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    surbiton said:

    Before the election there used to be many posts from PBTories about Corbyn's net favourability amongst Labour supporters compared to Cameron / May.

    We don't read similar posts anymore about Theresa May.

    Looking at the general public view, when are the Tories going to tell us that Corbyn is a Marxist, friend of Hamas, .......

    I think its more likely Tories will point at Venezuela's 60bn sovereign bond default that just started and at Mr Corbyn's approval for all things Maduro.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    edited November 2017

    Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.

    Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.

    [If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].

    It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.

    The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
    Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
    If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
    The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults.
    Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
    You're right.
    David Davis is furious at moves by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to team up on Brexit and will resist their attempts to
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-secretary-david-davis-angry-at-interference-by-michael-gove-and-boris-johnson-vn8xtd9dp
    This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance?
    Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
    I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
    Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit.
    Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
    Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
    I am sure they will be happy to have you alongside
    Lib Dems do not necessarily disagree with Conservatives on everything.

    Mind you, it was very difficult in the Referendum campaign, when both sides were headed by Tories - and I disagreed with everything they said!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    Mr. Meeks, May's lukewarm Remain stance (and poor judgement...) meant she felt she had to go further than a Leave supporter would have done.

    One might argue competence of execution rather than the decisions themselves are the problem, but there we are.

    Anyway, I must be off to perambulate in my rapidly decaying, but comfortable, boots.

    It's hard to believe Theresa May has any other setting than "lukewarm"....

    She's the frozen chicken that refuses to thaw.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,286
    AndyJS said:
    He's not but is one of the Chairmen's panel and the Bill is being considered by a Committee of the Whole House.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    What are the current odds on the boundary changes getting through parliament? You can see the revised proposals at boundaries.spatialanalysis.co.uk and here's my tweaks to the West Midlands https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1uqlgR6_V01Q023524AzUZWA2EijxAoSK
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    I'm coming to the conclusion only a leave vote would do were we to have a second ref...
  • RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway. ;)
    image
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited November 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
    When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.

    She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
    She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.

    Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/sex-slang-steak-views-leave-remain-worlds-apart

    I really don't have that much in common with the Leavers polled in this YouGov. Apart from wanting out of Eurovision, obviously.
  • RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway. ;)
    image
    I do like silk, I like satin, I like red, but I'm not keen on sandals, I put them on a par with crocs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
    If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
    The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter it's true.
    You're right.
    David Davis is furious at moves by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove to team up on Brexit and will resist their attempts to
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-secretary-david-davis-angry-at-interference-by-michael-gove-and-boris-johnson-vn8xtd9dp
    This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance?
    Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
    I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
    Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit.
    Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
    Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
    I am sure they will be happy to have you alongside
    Lib Dems do not necessarily disagree with Conservatives on everything.

    Mind you, it was very difficult in the Referendum campaign, when both sides were headed by Tories - and I disagreed with everything they said!
    The LDs were in coalition with the Tories after all
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    Irish solution is easy.

    Zero tariffs between any country worldwide.

    Indeed. Any border will be only on the EU side of the line.
    So you do not want a FTA with the EU. For that to happen, both parties have to agree.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/sex-slang-steak-views-leave-remain-worlds-apart

    I really don't have that much in common with the Leavers polled in this YouGov. Apart from wanting out of Eurovision, obviously.

    You want out of Eurovision? You also like pineapple on pizza don't you?
  • Sandpit said:

    Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.

    Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.

    [If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].

    It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.

    The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
    Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
    Vote Leave, avoid responsibility. The abject failure of Leavers to communicate a Brexit vision that Remain supporters could give a fair chance to is why they are floundering. Over many months I've repeatedly drawn attention to Leavers' incuriosity about their unpersuasiveness. This is the consequence.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
    When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.

    She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
    She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.

    Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
    How many grammar schools did open as Prime Minister, for seven years of her Premiership she had a majority of over 100, and the other four years she had a majority of around 40.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited November 2017
    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/930477213861974016
    Good article by Stephen Bush on the Emma Dent Coad saga. Also, slightly amused by Badenoch’s tweets on this issue - I always struck by how the only time I’ve seen both Cleverly and Badenoch get passionate about forms of discrimination is when it involves Conservatives being discriminated against, in whatever context. It as if we’re really supposed to believe that gender and racial discrimination are lesser issues than Tories being discriminated against for their political beliefs.

    Also, this is the second time I’ve seen her assert that Labour/Left have ‘low expectations of blacks people/minorities’. Of all the times I’ve seen/read black people be criticised and not believed in, it’s not generally been anyone from the centre-Left. Lastly, her reaction to Clive Lewis’s remarks are silly. You can critique the legitimacy of what he actually says, sure - but to argue that he’s denying a ‘basic human right to blacks.’ Get real. As if any black person’s ability to make political choices is seriously affected by Clive Lewis.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/sex-slang-steak-views-leave-remain-worlds-apart

    I really don't have that much in common with the Leavers polled in this YouGov. Apart from wanting out of Eurovision, obviously.

    You want out of Eurovision? You also like pineapple on pizza don't you?
    Of course I do. How can you have a Hawaiian without pineapple?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
    When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.

    She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
    She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.

    Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
    How many grammar schools did open as Prime Minister, for seven years of her Premiership she had a majority of over 100, and the other four years she had a majority of around 40.
    Ilford County stayed open throughout that period.
  • Sandpit said:

    Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.

    Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.

    [If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].

    It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.

    The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
    Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
    Vote Leave, avoid responsibility. The abject failure of Leavers to communicate a Brexit vision that Remain supporters could give a fair chance to is why they are floundering. Over many months I've repeatedly drawn attention to Leavers' incuriosity about their unpersuasiveness. This is the consequence.
    You never go full REMOANER!
  • HYUFD said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term

    The long term is too late. That was precisely the point they were making.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
    Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
    You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
    No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.

    You are now a LD anyway in all but name
    You really are full of shit.

    I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.

    I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
    You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
    When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.

    She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
    She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.

    Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
    How many grammar schools did open as Prime Minister, for seven years of her Premiership she had a majority of over 100, and the other four years she had a majority of around 40.
    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.

    Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.

    [If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].

    It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.

    The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
    Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
    Vote Leave, avoid responsibility. The abject failure of Leavers to communicate a Brexit vision that Remain supporters could give a fair chance to is why they are floundering. Over many months I've repeatedly drawn attention to Leavers' incuriosity about their unpersuasiveness. This is the consequence.
    As I said the other day, Leave is Cognitive Dissonance writ large.
  • Also, surely Boris’ leadership hopes are dead by now? From the figures I saw yesterday on here posted, JRM’s figures aren’t that different from his either.
  • HYUFD said:

    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'

    You haven't answered my question.

    How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term

    The long term is too late. That was precisely the point they were making.

    There will be a transition period first but the FTA negotiated with the EU once the exit bill has been agreed will protect the car industry, the financial services industry a bit less so
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Spokesman for Jeremy Corbyn on Emma Dent Coad race row: “Jeremy is opposed to all offensive language and believes we should treat each other with respect. Emma Dent Coad has rightly apologised to Shaun Bailey for her use of language."
  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/sex-slang-steak-views-leave-remain-worlds-apart

    I really don't have that much in common with the Leavers polled in this YouGov. Apart from wanting out of Eurovision, obviously.

    You want out of Eurovision? You also like pineapple on pizza don't you?
    Of course I do. How can you have a Hawaiian without pineapple?
    As we say in Yorkshire, there's nowt queer as folk.


  • I'm not keen on muesli either.

    I strongly favour Coco Pops myself - they're very tasty and the boxes are a lovely Lib Dem yellow. ;)

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'

    You haven't answered my question.

    How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
    She halted and protected existing grammar schools as PM when the left wanted to turn all state schools comprehensive. The closures of the Heath, Wilson and Callaghan governments ended under Thatcher's premiership
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    There will be a transition period first but the FTA negotiated with the EU once the exit bill has been agreed will protect the car industry

    Ummm, that was the whole point of the session this morning.

    There is no deal.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.

    Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.

    [If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].

    It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.

    The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
    Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
    Although I am more of a passive observer these days (being as Brexit-proof as I can manage), I still believe that Brexit will be very, very damaging to the UK.

    How can I believe that and support "Leave"?

    Based on my beliefs I will support any initiative that keeps us in the EU. How can I do otherwise?

    [Note that I am NOT asking anyone else to change their mind. I am just outlining why I refuse to change mine]
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    HYUFD said:

    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'

    You haven't answered my question.

    How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
    I did not think she opened any.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    There will be a transition period first but the FTA negotiated with the EU once the exit bill has been agreed will protect the car industry

    Ummm, that was the whole point of the session this morning.

    There is no deal.
    Ummm We have not even Brexited yet
  • HYUFD said:

    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'

    You haven't answered my question.

    How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
    I did not think she opened any.
    Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.

    All good Tories oppose grammar schools.

    Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    Ummm We have not even Brexited yet

    https://twitter.com/itvwales/status/930499503425294338
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    I'm in the process of moving at the moment. I think the vote was analogous to exchange, and the exit will be a completion. The fact the country didn't do the proper surveys before exchange doesn't change the fact we have...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited November 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'

    You haven't answered my question.

    How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
    I did not think she opened any.
    Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.

    All good Tories oppose grammar schools.

    Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.
    She was not anti grammar school it was Heath who was PM and said council closures of grammars should not be vetoed, as PM Thatcher ended that and kept existing grammars open.

    You want to close all grammars, even Cameron opposed that
  • Pulpstar said:

    I'm in the process of moving at the moment. I think the vote was analogous to exchange, and the exit will be a completion. The fact the country didn't do the proper surveys before exchange doesn't change the fact we have...

    Yup, the Leave vote, replete with leaving the customs union and single market as proposed by Gove and Johnson, must be honoured.

    A few years outside the EU will settle the matter forever.

    People will be able to judge how good or bad the EU was.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.

    Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term

    The long term is too late. That was precisely the point they were making.

    There will be a transition period first but the FTA negotiated with the EU once the exit bill has been agreed will protect the car industry, the financial services industry a bit less so

    There will be a transition period if the EU agrees to one. There will not be a transition deal unless the UK government agrees to the terms the EU sets. What the auto industry reps made clear is that No Deal basically destroys the sector in the UK.

  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'

    You haven't answered my question.

    How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
    I did not think she opened any.
    Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.

    All good Tories oppose grammar schools.

    Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.
    She was not anti grammar school it was Heath who was PM and said council closures of grammars should not be vetoed, as PM Thatcher ended that and kept existing grammars open.

    You want to close all grammars, even Cameron opposed that
    If she was pro-grammar she would have opened new grammar schools, reversing her tenure as Education Secretary.
  • HYUFD said:

    Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'

    You haven't answered my question.

    How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
    I did not think she opened any.
    Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.

    All good Tories oppose grammar schools.

    Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.

    "People from my sort of background needed Grammar schools to compete with children from privileged homes like Shirley Williams and Anthony Wedgwood Benn."
    - M. H. Thatcher, speech to Conservative Party Conference, 14 October 1977.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I'm in the process of moving at the moment. I think the vote was analogous to exchange, and the exit will be a completion. The fact the country didn't do the proper surveys before exchange doesn't change the fact we have...

    Yup, the Leave vote, replete with leaving the customs union and single market as proposed by Gove and Johnson, must be honoured.

    A few years outside the EU will settle the matter forever.

    People will be able to judge how good or bad the EU was.
    A genuine question - do you really think that if the MP's derail exit the voters will thank them and go away
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ummm We have not even Brexited yet

    https://twitter.com/itvwales/status/930499503425294338
    ' If the UK is unable to secure a deal' we will secure a FTA deal
This discussion has been closed.