Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM
Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.
Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
The whole point of Brexit is to diverge and increased competition is a good thing not a dirty word. Only once we leave this sclerotic union behind will we be able to compete better with the rest of the world that has outgrown the EU consistently.
Trying to tie ourselves down so we aren't competitive is not a good idea and Barnier demonstrates here precisely why we need to leave. Thank you Scott_P for so eloquently demonstrating why remaining in an organisation that believes to be competitive is not acceptable is so necessary.
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults. Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance? Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
The whole point of Brexit is to diverge and increased competition is a good thing not a dirty word. Only once we leave this sclerotic union behind will we be able to compete better with the rest of the world that has outgrown the EU consistently.
Trying to tie ourselves down so we aren't competitive is not a good idea and Barnier demonstrates here precisely why we need to leave. Thank you Scott_P for so eloquently demonstrating why remaining in an organisation that believes to be competitive is not acceptable is so necessary.
That interview with Mr Chope posted earlier also mentioned that the EU was attempting to fetter any future trade agreements we signed with third parties as part of the exit agreement.
To add insult to injury, the EU’s negotiators are insisting that any future trade relationship should be made conditional upon a whole raft of protectionist and anti-competitive requirements which would severely handicap the UK’s freedom to negotiate genuine free trade deals with the rest of the world.
This will come as a shock, but no-one finds you as influential as you clearly do.....
I have never claimed any influence, but my legion of fans seem to think otherwise
Does anyone's individual vote ever influence the result? No. Is it nonetheless the case that by not casting it you lose the right to moan? Yes. And if you want to moan like a dockside hooker, the question of what you actually did in the war, daddy, beyond casting your own vote, becomes legit.
The whole point of Brexit is to diverge and increased competition is a good thing not a dirty word. Only once we leave this sclerotic union behind will we be able to compete better with the rest of the world that has outgrown the EU consistently.
Trying to tie ourselves down so we aren't competitive is not a good idea and Barnier demonstrates here precisely why we need to leave. Thank you Scott_P for so eloquently demonstrating why remaining in an organisation that believes to be competitive is not acceptable is so necessary.
That interview with Mr Chope posted earlier also mentioned that the EU was attempting to fetter any future trade agreements we signed with third parties as part of the exit agreement.
To add insult to injury, the EU’s negotiators are insisting that any future trade relationship should be made conditional upon a whole raft of protectionist and anti-competitive requirements which would severely handicap the UK’s freedom to negotiate genuine free trade deals with the rest of the world.
If they insisted on that then we would have to go hard Brexit, it would be pointless leaving that control back in the EU's hands.
Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
Agreed along with: Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid. Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back. Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves. Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.
Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title. Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.
These people should not be in Parliament.
None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent
Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country. I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
Agreed along with: Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid. Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back. Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves. Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.
Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title. Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.
These people should not be in Parliament.
None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent
Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country. I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM
Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.
Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
Firstly you are of wrong, both Blair and Cameron led Major and Brown as best PM.
Secondly Thank you for your wishes but address them to BigG who is having the op and not me
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults. Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance? Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit.
Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term
What makes you think the EU will agree to that bearing in mind that it has already said there will be no bespoke deal?
Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM
Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.
Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
Thanks so much but I think it is me having the op not Hyufd unless he is having one to
Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
Agreed along with: Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid. Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back. Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves. Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.
Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title. Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.
These people should not be in Parliament.
None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent
Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country. I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
I think she has a much bigger charge sheet than that - check out Guido
Thank god that lynching was nothing to do Shaun Bailey
Well as she drew a black man getting lynched and we know according to her that Shaun is the token black Tory....put two and two together...
She needs throwing out of the HOC. Odious and unsuited for public life
Agreed along with: Boris Johnson - a total waste of space. Odious and stupid. Liam Fox - a complete joke. Disgraced and then brought back. Jacob Rees Mogg and the DUP - bigots who only care for people like themselves. Jeremy Corbyn - apologist for terrorists.
Lord Archer - disgraced. Should have been stripped of title. Lord Ashcroft of Belize - dishonourable. Should be stripped of title.
These people should not be in Parliament.
None of the above come near to the odious Coad Dent
Just noticed your list are of leavers. Where are your remainers for balance
She drew a bad taste cartoon of a stick figure hanging from the Tory tree (how can anybody see what race they are?). She may be an idiot but is the others that are doing real damage to the country. I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults. Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance? Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit. Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults. Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance? Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit. Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
I am sure they will be happy to have you alongside
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM
Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.
Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
Thanks so much but I think it is me having the op not Hyufd unless he is having one to
May I add my voice (*) to the chorus wishing you all the best and a fast recovery.
(*) Although if you ever hear my voice, you may prefer me to type it instead ...
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
ROME — Many tragedies have befallen Italy in the last 60 years. Dozens of governments have collapsed. Earthquakes and terrorism have shaken cities. The French started adding cream to carbonara.
But the failure of the national soccer team on Monday night to qualify for the World Cup for the first time since 1958 seems to be taking a place in the pantheon of Italian disasters.
Corbyn still has a bet unfavourable rating though and May still beats him with Yougov as best PM
Er! Firstly the incumbent always has an advantage as the best PM, they are in situ while the opposition is an unknown quantity, especially as these days it has become habitual for any losing leader in an election to stand down. Corbyn exceeded by far the expectations of many.
Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
Thanks so much but I think it is me having the op not Hyufd unless he is having one to
May I add my voice (*) to the chorus wishing you all the best and a fast recovery.
(*) Although if you ever hear my voice, you may prefer me to type it instead ...
Everyone has been so amazing and thank you. I share your problem with voice. As a young choirboy I was only allow to carry the cross and mouth the words on strict orders from the vicar
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.
She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
ROME — Many tragedies have befallen Italy in the last 60 years. Dozens of governments have collapsed. Earthquakes and terrorism have shaken cities. The French started adding cream to carbonara.
But the failure of the national soccer team on Monday night to qualify for the World Cup for the first time since 1958 seems to be taking a place in the pantheon of Italian disasters.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway.
@BBCVickiYoung: Rebel alert - Tory Dominic Grieve says he's not willing to suspend his judgement on implementing #Brexit just because he's ordered to.
@alstewitn: #EUWithdrawalBill Dominic Grieve MP: "#Brexit is a national process of self-mutilation".
The numbers for implementing Brexit now look very dicey.
I simply don't understand what MPs like Grieve are doing. Like most of his colleagues on both the government and opposition benches, he voted for Article 50 to be triggered.
Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.
The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
@BBCVickiYoung: Rebel alert - Tory Dominic Grieve says he's not willing to suspend his judgement on implementing #Brexit just because he's ordered to.
@alstewitn: #EUWithdrawalBill Dominic Grieve MP: "#Brexit is a national process of self-mutilation".
The numbers for implementing Brexit now look very dicey.
I simply don't understand what MPs like Grieve is doing. Like most of his colleagues on both the government and opposition benches, he voted for Article 50 to be triggered.
Timing is everything. Then Brexit was irresistible. Now it is possibly resistible and so the unreconciled are resisting.
Before the election there used to be many posts from PBTories about Corbyn's net favourability amongst Labour supporters compared to Cameron / May.
We don't read similar posts anymore about Theresa May.
Looking at the general public view, when are the Tories going to tell us that Corbyn is a Marxist, friend of Hamas, .......
I think its more likely Tories will point at Venezuela's 60bn sovereign bond default that just started and at Mr Corbyn's approval for all things Maduro.
Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.
The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter will bring us the disaster of the century because it has come down to a test of that arse Johnson's claim that the EU can whistle. I'd be happier with Blair and mandelson fronting our operation because I'd expect them to behave like adults. Feck that sounds pompous, but it's true.
This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance? Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit. Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
I am sure they will be happy to have you alongside
Lib Dems do not necessarily disagree with Conservatives on everything.
Mind you, it was very difficult in the Referendum campaign, when both sides were headed by Tories - and I disagreed with everything they said!
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.
She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.
Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
Your choice in footwear probably bars you from joining the LDs anyway.
I do like silk, I like satin, I like red, but I'm not keen on sandals, I put them on a par with crocs.
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
The EU is using every dirty trick in the book to cause immense harm to us. Their threats are closer to a declaration of war than they are a negotiation.
If only someone had warned that Vote Leave's have cake and eat it approach was bollocks.
The problem in a word is: infantility. Johnson, Verhofstadt, Farage and Barnier are behaving in a way which 20 years ago would have been unthinkable in a senior politician, because they have Twitter at their fingertips and the example of the POTUS to show how it's acceptable to use it. And the medium is the message here, and Twitter it's true.
This 'senior ally of Mr Gove and Mr Johnson' would not be a certain Mr Dominic Cummings per chance? Surely not the same Mr Dominic Cummings whose promise to give the NHS £350 million a week post Brexit could certainly not be described as anything but 'f***wittery', oh no!
I thought that that Dominic Cummings was a key figure in your Tory gang, Mr HYUFD. I thought you all adored him for his very cunning plan.
Firstly I voted Remain although I now accept Brexit. Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
Do you mean "... united (them) in equal loathing of him"? In which case, you can add me to the list.
I am sure they will be happy to have you alongside
Lib Dems do not necessarily disagree with Conservatives on everything.
Mind you, it was very difficult in the Referendum campaign, when both sides were headed by Tories - and I disagreed with everything they said!
The LDs were in coalition with the Tories after all
Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.
The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
Vote Leave, avoid responsibility. The abject failure of Leavers to communicate a Brexit vision that Remain supporters could give a fair chance to is why they are floundering. Over many months I've repeatedly drawn attention to Leavers' incuriosity about their unpersuasiveness. This is the consequence.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.
She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.
Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
How many grammar schools did open as Prime Minister, for seven years of her Premiership she had a majority of over 100, and the other four years she had a majority of around 40.
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/930477213861974016 Good article by Stephen Bush on the Emma Dent Coad saga. Also, slightly amused by Badenoch’s tweets on this issue - I always struck by how the only time I’ve seen both Cleverly and Badenoch get passionate about forms of discrimination is when it involves Conservatives being discriminated against, in whatever context. It as if we’re really supposed to believe that gender and racial discrimination are lesser issues than Tories being discriminated against for their political beliefs.
Also, this is the second time I’ve seen her assert that Labour/Left have ‘low expectations of blacks people/minorities’. Of all the times I’ve seen/read black people be criticised and not believed in, it’s not generally been anyone from the centre-Left. Lastly, her reaction to Clive Lewis’s remarks are silly. You can critique the legitimacy of what he actually says, sure - but to argue that he’s denying a ‘basic human right to blacks.’ Get real. As if any black person’s ability to make political choices is seriously affected by Clive Lewis.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.
She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.
Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
How many grammar schools did open as Prime Minister, for seven years of her Premiership she had a majority of over 100, and the other four years she had a majority of around 40.
Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.
The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
Vote Leave, avoid responsibility. The abject failure of Leavers to communicate a Brexit vision that Remain supporters could give a fair chance to is why they are floundering. Over many months I've repeatedly drawn attention to Leavers' incuriosity about their unpersuasiveness. This is the consequence.
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term
The long term is too late. That was precisely the point they were making.
His ratings will collapse soon too, as I accurately predicted about Boris.
Davis is now the likely next PM if he has overtaken Boris with Tory voters given his strength amongst Tory MPs too
You're as wrong about David Davis now as you were wrong about Boris
No it will be more of those two. Both have alternated the lead of every Tory members poll since the general election, along with Rees Mogg. However I don't think it will be the latter as he does not yet have the MPs.
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
You really are full of shit.
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
You are anti Brexit, anti grammar school etc you have more in common with Cable now than May or any of her likely successors. Indeed as you are also anti monarchy you even have more in common with Corbyn on that
When Margaret Thatcher was in government, she was anti Brexit and anti-grammar schools.
She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
She only did not veto local council closure of them in line with Heath's policy, as PM she did not push closures and as an ex PM she was President of Tory Friends of Grammar Schools.
Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
How many grammar schools did open as Prime Minister, for seven years of her Premiership she had a majority of over 100, and the other four years she had a majority of around 40.
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.
The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
Vote Leave, avoid responsibility. The abject failure of Leavers to communicate a Brexit vision that Remain supporters could give a fair chance to is why they are floundering. Over many months I've repeatedly drawn attention to Leavers' incuriosity about their unpersuasiveness. This is the consequence.
As I said the other day, Leave is Cognitive Dissonance writ large.
Also, surely Boris’ leadership hopes are dead by now? From the figures I saw yesterday on here posted, JRM’s figures aren’t that different from his either.
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
You haven't answered my question.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term
The long term is too late. That was precisely the point they were making.
There will be a transition period first but the FTA negotiated with the EU once the exit bill has been agreed will protect the car industry, the financial services industry a bit less so
@PolhomeEditor: Spokesman for Jeremy Corbyn on Emma Dent Coad race row: “Jeremy is opposed to all offensive language and believes we should treat each other with respect. Emma Dent Coad has rightly apologised to Shaun Bailey for her use of language."
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
You haven't answered my question.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
She halted and protected existing grammar schools as PM when the left wanted to turn all state schools comprehensive. The closures of the Heath, Wilson and Callaghan governments ended under Thatcher's premiership
Mr. Meeks, there are only three alternatives. The vote passes and a deal of some sort is done, the vote fails and we leave with no deal, or there's an attempt by the Commons to either revoke Article 50 or to have a second referendum.
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
It's all getting very volatile. I'm unwilling to make predictions.
The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
Which is hardly surprising, given that the Remainers still think they can sabotage the whole thing. The hardline Remainers would love a no-deal crash-out, just so they could say they told us so.
Although I am more of a passive observer these days (being as Brexit-proof as I can manage), I still believe that Brexit will be very, very damaging to the UK.
How can I believe that and support "Leave"?
Based on my beliefs I will support any initiative that keeps us in the EU. How can I do otherwise?
[Note that I am NOT asking anyone else to change their mind. I am just outlining why I refuse to change mine]
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
You haven't answered my question.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
You haven't answered my question.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
I did not think she opened any.
Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.
I'm in the process of moving at the moment. I think the vote was analogous to exchange, and the exit will be a completion. The fact the country didn't do the proper surveys before exchange doesn't change the fact we have...
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
You haven't answered my question.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
I did not think she opened any.
Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.
All good Tories oppose grammar schools.
Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.
She was not anti grammar school it was Heath who was PM and said council closures of grammars should not be vetoed, as PM Thatcher ended that and kept existing grammars open.
You want to close all grammars, even Cameron opposed that
I'm in the process of moving at the moment. I think the vote was analogous to exchange, and the exit will be a completion. The fact the country didn't do the proper surveys before exchange doesn't change the fact we have...
Yup, the Leave vote, replete with leaving the customs union and single market as proposed by Gove and Johnson, must be honoured.
A few years outside the EU will settle the matter forever.
People will be able to judge how good or bad the EU was.
Very sobering stuff on Brexit from UK car people in the Commons this afternoon. Put simply, No Deal kills the industry off over here to a very large extent.
Just as well the government is going for a Canada+ FTA then which will be fine for the car industry in the long term
The long term is too late. That was precisely the point they were making.
There will be a transition period first but the FTA negotiated with the EU once the exit bill has been agreed will protect the car industry, the financial services industry a bit less so
There will be a transition period if the EU agrees to one. There will not be a transition deal unless the UK government agrees to the terms the EU sets. What the auto industry reps made clear is that No Deal basically destroys the sector in the UK.
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
You haven't answered my question.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
I did not think she opened any.
Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.
All good Tories oppose grammar schools.
Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.
She was not anti grammar school it was Heath who was PM and said council closures of grammars should not be vetoed, as PM Thatcher ended that and kept existing grammars open.
You want to close all grammars, even Cameron opposed that
If she was pro-grammar she would have opened new grammar schools, reversing her tenure as Education Secretary.
Grammar school closures halted under Thatcher's premiership, leaving hundreds still in place, most still there today. Her anointed successor John Major then promised 'a grammar school in every town'
You haven't answered my question.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
I did not think she opened any.
Indeed, that's why in reality she was anti-grammar school as Education Secretary and PM.
All good Tories oppose grammar schools.
Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.
"People from my sort of background needed Grammar schools to compete with children from privileged homes like Shirley Williams and Anthony Wedgwood Benn." - M. H. Thatcher, speech to Conservative Party Conference, 14 October 1977.
I'm in the process of moving at the moment. I think the vote was analogous to exchange, and the exit will be a completion. The fact the country didn't do the proper surveys before exchange doesn't change the fact we have...
Yup, the Leave vote, replete with leaving the customs union and single market as proposed by Gove and Johnson, must be honoured.
A few years outside the EU will settle the matter forever.
People will be able to judge how good or bad the EU was.
A genuine question - do you really think that if the MP's derail exit the voters will thank them and go away
Comments
Secondly, may I wish you well on your upcoming op., and I hope to be continuing the arguments for some time to come.
Trying to tie ourselves down so we aren't competitive is not a good idea and Barnier demonstrates here precisely why we need to leave. Thank you Scott_P for so eloquently demonstrating why remaining in an organisation that believes to be competitive is not acceptable is so necessary.
To add insult to injury, the EU’s negotiators are insisting that any future trade relationship should be made conditional upon a whole raft of protectionist and anti-competitive requirements which would severely handicap the UK’s freedom to negotiate genuine free trade deals with the rest of the world.
"We left because we want to steal International trade from the EU"
"Why are they not being nicer to us?"
It's a puzzle...
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/930485458160758784
If they insisted on that then we would have to go hard Brexit, it would be pointless leaving that control back in the EU's hands.
I'd be happy to see all of them out of Parliament.
https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/images/photos/politics/graphics/bushbillboard.jpg
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/930486395071877122
Secondly Thank you for your wishes but address them to BigG who is having the op and not me
Second I have never been a fan of Cummings, the only man who has united IDS, Cameron and Davis in equal loathing of them
@alstewitn: #EUWithdrawalBill Dominic Grieve MP: "#Brexit is a national process of self-mutilation".
You are now a LD anyway in all but name
I've explained to you several times why I could never be a Lib Dem.
I know the Tory party very well, it is why I was right on Boris and you weren't.
(*) Although if you ever hear my voice, you may prefer me to type it instead ...
Do you think the last option is plausible? Because if the numbers are dicey then it'd be madness to seek to harm the UK as much as possible, and as the rebels are pro-EU it seems nigh on certain they'd prefer to Remain than Leave as hard as possible.
[If anyone is wondering about doing that so we come 'crawling back' to the EU, I'd argue that's psychologically problematic. One reason gangs have such severe trials to join is because it heightens the perceived reward by making the applicant suffer. Suffering a lot of pain and then have it be for nothing is a very difficult thing with which to deal, and very undesirable].
That’s what the EU are really worried about, that we’ll become a bigger Switzerland or Singapore, outward looking and willing to trade with the world.
But the failure of the national soccer team on Monday night to qualify for the World Cup for the first time since 1958 seems to be taking a place in the pantheon of Italian disasters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/world/europe/italy-world-cup.html
She abolished/merged more grammar schools than anyone else as Education Secretary, and as PM she didn't open a single new grammar school.
That said, Session is clearly going to get prosecuted.
We don't read similar posts anymore about Theresa May.
Looking at the general public view, when are the Tories going to tell us that Corbyn is a Marxist, friend of Hamas, .......
The damage was caused by the government failing to reach out to Remain supporters and seek to include them in their Brexit thinking. So they're looking at all options, including wild ones.
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/03696a47-12d1-486e-864d-8994e508c932
One might argue competence of execution rather than the decisions themselves are the problem, but there we are.
Anyway, I must be off to perambulate in my rapidly decaying, but comfortable, boots.
Mind you, it was very difficult in the Referendum campaign, when both sides were headed by Tories - and I disagreed with everything they said!
She's the frozen chicken that refuses to thaw.
Thatcher by the time of the Bruges speech was moving in a firmly anti EU direction and she even endorsed IDS over Clarke in 2001 because of Europe. Thatcher was also a staunch monarchist.
I really don't have that much in common with the Leavers polled in this YouGov. Apart from wanting out of Eurovision, obviously.
Good article by Stephen Bush on the Emma Dent Coad saga. Also, slightly amused by Badenoch’s tweets on this issue - I always struck by how the only time I’ve seen both Cleverly and Badenoch get passionate about forms of discrimination is when it involves Conservatives being discriminated against, in whatever context. It as if we’re really supposed to believe that gender and racial discrimination are lesser issues than Tories being discriminated against for their political beliefs.
Also, this is the second time I’ve seen her assert that Labour/Left have ‘low expectations of blacks people/minorities’. Of all the times I’ve seen/read black people be criticised and not believed in, it’s not generally been anyone from the centre-Left. Lastly, her reaction to Clive Lewis’s remarks are silly. You can critique the legitimacy of what he actually says, sure - but to argue that he’s denying a ‘basic human right to blacks.’ Get real. As if any black person’s ability to make political choices is seriously affected by Clive Lewis.
How many new grammar schools did Mrs Thatcher open as PM?
There is no deal.
How can I believe that and support "Leave"?
Based on my beliefs I will support any initiative that keeps us in the EU. How can I do otherwise?
[Note that I am NOT asking anyone else to change their mind. I am just outlining why I refuse to change mine]
All good Tories oppose grammar schools.
Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, and myself.
You want to close all grammars, even Cameron opposed that
A few years outside the EU will settle the matter forever.
People will be able to judge how good or bad the EU was.
"People from my sort of background needed Grammar schools to compete with children from privileged homes like Shirley Williams and Anthony Wedgwood Benn."
- M. H. Thatcher, speech to Conservative Party Conference, 14 October 1977.