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I had a very quick skim through and couldn't see any direct reference to banning confidence and supply arrangements.TheScreamingEagles said:
No.RobD said:
Do they say which terms?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.0 -
No, no they wouldn't. They'd be checked to make sure that hadn't just had an stroke.Sean_F said:
It's a load of shit. People don't equate the DUP with the IRA. If Dave or George cut a deal with the DUP, they'd be praised here for their brilliant political skills.Y0kel said:
Just how many current Conservative voters will vote Corbyn of the back of this? 10%, 5%?Stereotomy said:
Plus this at a stroke neutralises potential alliances with the SNP, vague threats of a "coalition of chaos" and Corbyn's link to the IRA as attack lines in another election.Alistair said:It's not about what the DUP ask for!
It's that they are now linked to the Conservatives. Every time a vote comes up that need their support to pass the press will drag up Ulster Resistance or some other shit to embarrass the Conservatives.
This is politics 101.0 -
...0
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I don't think there's any doubt Labour wasted votes in safe seats. If you increase your share by 9% you'd expect to make more than 30 net gains.0
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For many in the country he is the face of austerity.Y0kel said:I have never understood the idea amongst some Conservatives that Osborne could be leader.
Net vote loser.
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I was a bit pissed last night and initially thought I was about £200 down. Quite a relief to claw some back.Quincel said:
For the second election in a row I got the Lab/Con position totally wrong. Lost loads on that. Made slightly more on my LD/UKIP/SNP bets. Small profit, but nothing to be proud of.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Having totted up my bets. A 14/60 hit rate. PBers tips on the Scottish seats and Ynys Mon saved my bacon. Down about £50 overall.
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Thanks to the Shinners, the effective majority needed is 322.Carolus_Rex said:
If they don't like it they can always take their seats in the Commons. It would make it just that little bit more difficult.TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.0 -
You're obsessed.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't many people among YOUR co-religionists believe in homophobia and extremism?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.
Every time you mention this, I'll mention your tacit support for the vile caste system.0 -
Well they both Boris so they have that in common... Otherwise?Tykejohnno said:
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Nice to see the subjunctive on the front page.Tykejohnno said:0 -
@joehullait: Just heading down Kensington miners club for a pint.0
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Some of the Labour votes in London and Merseyside are astonishing.AndyJS said:I don't think there's any doubt Labour wasted votes in safe seats. If you increase your share by 9% you'd expect to make more than 30 net gains.
Labour also moved into second place in many safe Conservative constituencies.
Labour has only a few more MPs than it did in 2010 but with 10% more vote.
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May has to resign, she should postpone the Brexit talks for a successor to be appointed who will then deal with it. She has no credibility what so ever after the election debacle. She asked for a mandate and did not get one. A successor could negotiate and then hold a General Election to validate the UK's intention to either walk away without a deal / accept the deal / Remain in the EU on the current terms.Cyclefree said:
She cannot do Brexit.Sean_F said:
I don't think she's up to it.Cyclefree said:Philip May really needs to have a long talk with his wife.
She is simply not thinking straight.
She is damaging her party and the country and herself if she carries on like this.
I detest the rage and hatred towards for her not being Dave or George, who also proved to be not up to it.
She asked for a mandate. She did not get it. The EU know that. We know that. The Tories know that.
If the Tories do not act, they will add cowardice to the arrogance, stupidity, complacency and hubris they have displayed. Someone surely must see that. Surely?0 -
Con won 17 seats by under 1,000Dadge said:List of all the majorities under 1,000. https://ukelect.wordpress.com/2017/06/09/2017-parliament-the-tighest-marginals/
Most of Scotland was one big toss-up!
Lab won 19 seats by under 1,000
So roughly equal luck if you think anything that close could easily have gone either way.0 -
Exactly, in some respects he's like Tory Blair. Osborne owns austerity like Blair owns Iraq. Whatever the rights and wrongs are he is not going to be a popular politician any time soon, most on the left hate him, and quite a lot on the right do as well.brokenwheel said:
For many in the country he is the face of austerity.Y0kel said:I have never understood the idea amongst some Conservatives that Osborne could be leader.
Net vote loser.0 -
North Kensington has always been a Labour area, although usually the turnout is fairly low.0
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Plus some more Middle Eastern warmongering.Sean_F said:
The view is that people will flock to the Conservatives if they promise to slash public spending and taxes, promote mass migration, and support the EU.Y0kel said:I have never understood the idea amongst some Conservatives that Osborne could be leader.
Net vote loser.
And higher house prices.0 -
Could imagine him coming back as a strategist or similar, but he would be a bizarre choice of frontman.glw said:
Exactly, in some respects he's like Tory Blair. Osborne owns austerity like Blair owns Iraq. Whatever the rights and wrongs are he is not going to be a popular politician any time soon, most on the left hate him, and quite a lot on the right do as well.brokenwheel said:
For many in the country he is the face of austerity.Y0kel said:I have never understood the idea amongst some Conservatives that Osborne could be leader.
Net vote loser.0 -
Labour are going to unite behind Corbyn now, massively energized, they need to get moderates into the Cabinet and continue to link May to Conservatism to get maximum toxicity.
A few by elections and they could take power.0 -
Since at least 1885 but probably before in some form or another...midwinter said:
How long had the Tories held Canterbury for before Mrs May bestrode the commons like a colossus?ThreeQuidder said:
If it were the old K&C, yes.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'd prefer a Tory majority government.Mortimer said:
For about the 19th time in the past day, I can accept that.TheScreamingEagles said:
For the last year you've been banging on how awful the posh boys were and how brilliant Mrs May was.Mortimer said:
Changing the subject old bean.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Mrs May knows so much better than the posh boys?Mortimer said:
Biggest issue raised on my knocking up yesterday? Disability cuts. Osborne did quite enough as chancellor 15-16 to retoxify the brand all on his own.TheScreamingEagles said:Mrs May is desperate to retoxify the Tory brand isn't she?
The D U fucking P.
We've done a deal with the party of Sammy 'The gays are poofs and perverts' Wilson.
Trust me in 2015 English voters weren't keen on sending their money to Scotland, they won't be happy about sending English money to Northern Ireland.
What has Northern Ireland ever done for England except brought terrorism to the mainland ?
Mrs May needs to be deposed before she fatally damages the Tories, if she already hasn't.
How do you propose to get to 326?
Well there are two very simple ways of getting to 326
1) Don't break your word and call a snap election and lose your majority
or
2) Fight a good general election campaign.
May is a stain on the Tory power, and the sooner she is removed the better.
I know you're angry - we all are. But now we have 318/19, we have to form a government....
Suck it up, your girl has been proven to be the pound shop Gordon Brown I warned you she'd be.
But the way you're talking you'd prefer a Corbyn government...
But Kensington has gone red under Mrs May's watch.
Let that sink in.
That's like Bootle going Blue.
As it is, it's more like Mansfield or Stoke South...0 -
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Bit careless to lose that then..GIN1138 said:
Since at least 1885 but probably before in some form or another...midwinter said:
How long had the Tories held Canterbury for before Mrs May bestrode the commons like a colossus?ThreeQuidder said:
If it were the old K&C, yes.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'd prefer a Tory majority government.Mortimer said:
For about the 19th time in the past day, I can accept that.TheScreamingEagles said:
For the last year you've been banging on how awful the posh boys were and how brilliant Mrs May was.Mortimer said:
Changing the subject old bean.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Mrs May knows so much better than the posh boys?Mortimer said:
Biggest issue raised on my knocking up yesterday? Disability cuts. Osborne did quite enough as chancellor 15-16 to retoxify the brand all on his own.TheScreamingEagles said:Mrs May is desperate to retoxify the Tory brand isn't she?
The D U fucking P.
We've done a deal with the party of Sammy 'The gays are poofs and perverts' Wilson.
Trust me in 2015 English voters weren't keen on sending their money to Scotland, they won't be happy about sending English money to Northern Ireland.
What has Northern Ireland ever done for England except brought terrorism to the mainland ?
Mrs May needs to be deposed before she fatally damages the Tories, if she already hasn't.
How do you propose to get to 326?
Well there are two very simple ways of getting to 326
1) Don't break your word and call a snap election and lose your majority
or
2) Fight a good general election campaign.
May is a stain on the Tory power, and the sooner she is removed the better.
I know you're angry - we all are. But now we have 318/19, we have to form a government....
Suck it up, your girl has been proven to be the pound shop Gordon Brown I warned you she'd be.
But the way you're talking you'd prefer a Corbyn government...
But Kensington has gone red under Mrs May's watch.
Let that sink in.
That's like Bootle going Blue.
As it is, it's more like Mansfield or Stoke South...0 -
Yep he's not a figurehead but an invaluable advisorMyBurningEars said:
Could imagine him coming back as a strategist or similar, but he would be a bizarre choice of frontman.glw said:
Exactly, in some respects he's like Tory Blair. Osborne owns austerity like Blair owns Iraq. Whatever the rights and wrongs are he is not going to be a popular politician any time soon, most on the left hate him, and quite a lot on the right do as well.brokenwheel said:
For many in the country he is the face of austerity.Y0kel said:I have never understood the idea amongst some Conservatives that Osborne could be leader.
Net vote loser.0 -
I'm sure more analysis is needed but the electoral map still seems to favour the Conservatives in the sense that a vote lead of just 2.4% (UK) has resulted in a lead of 56 seats.AndyJS said:I don't think there's any doubt Labour wasted votes in safe seats. If you increase your share by 9% you'd expect to make more than 30 net gains.
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Proper Mail and Express fodder. Until Tories see past that the young, and not so young, are going to tell them to do one.another_richard said:And higher house prices.
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Moderates that sign up to Corbynism are not moderates.Freggles said:Labour are going to unite behind Corbyn now, massively energized, they need to get moderates into the Cabinet and continue to link May to Conservatism to get maximum toxicity.
A few by elections and they could take power.0 -
I wonder when they will announce Donald Trumps state visit visit will be deferred again? Who ever is the successor to May will not want his Toxic dust to tarnish their reputation.0
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Whose idea was it to increase student fees to £9k per year ?midwinter said:
Bit careless to lose that then..GIN1138 said:
Since at least 1885 but probably before in some form or another...midwinter said:
How long had the Tories held Canterbury for before Mrs May bestrode the commons like a colossus?ThreeQuidder said:
If it were the old K&C, yes.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'd prefer a Tory majority government.Mortimer said:
For about the 19th time in the past day, I can accept that.TheScreamingEagles said:
For the last year you've been banging on how awful the posh boys were and how brilliant Mrs May was.Mortimer said:
Changing the subject old bean.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Mrs May knows so much better than the posh boys?Mortimer said:
Biggest issue raised on my knocking up yesterday? Disability cuts. Osborne did quite enough as chancellor 15-16 to retoxify the brand all on his own.TheScreamingEagles said:Mrs May is desperate to retoxify the Tory brand isn't she?
The D U fucking P.
We've done a deal with the party of Sammy 'The gays are poofs and perverts' Wilson.
Trust me in 2015 English voters weren't keen on sending their money to Scotland, they won't be happy about sending English money to Northern Ireland.
What has Northern Ireland ever done for England except brought terrorism to the mainland ?
Mrs May needs to be deposed before she fatally damages the Tories, if she already hasn't.
How do you propose to get to 326?
Well there are two very simple ways of getting to 326
1) Don't break your word and call a snap election and lose your majority
or
2) Fight a good general election campaign.
May is a stain on the Tory power, and the sooner she is removed the better.
I know you're angry - we all are. But now we have 318/19, we have to form a government....
Suck it up, your girl has been proven to be the pound shop Gordon Brown I warned you she'd be.
But the way you're talking you'd prefer a Corbyn government...
But Kensington has gone red under Mrs May's watch.
Let that sink in.
That's like Bootle going Blue.
As it is, it's more like Mansfield or Stoke South...
Though the dementia threat would also have played a part there.
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Yes, I had that last night. Worse in 2015 though, thought I'd lost thousands. Went to bed, totted it up next morning. Very relieved!Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I was a bit pissed last night and initially thought I was about £200 down. Quite a relief to claw some back.Quincel said:
For the second election in a row I got the Lab/Con position totally wrong. Lost loads on that. Made slightly more on my LD/UKIP/SNP bets. Small profit, but nothing to be proud of.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Having totted up my bets. A 14/60 hit rate. PBers tips on the Scottish seats and Ynys Mon saved my bacon. Down about £50 overall.
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That's fine, Theresa May has moved right.glw said:
Moderates that sign up to Corbynism are not moderates.Freggles said:Labour are going to unite behind Corbyn now, massively energized, they need to get moderates into the Cabinet and continue to link May to Conservatism to get maximum toxicity.
A few by elections and they could take power.0 -
As did Brexitanother_richard said:
Whose idea was it to increase student fees to £9k per year ?midwinter said:
Bit careless to lose that then..GIN1138 said:
Since at least 1885 but probably before in some form or another...midwinter said:
How long had the Tories held Canterbury for before Mrs May bestrode the commons like a colossus?ThreeQuidder said:
If it were the old K&C, yes.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'd prefer a Tory majority government.Mortimer said:
For about the 19th time in the past day, I can accept that.TheScreamingEagles said:
For the last year you've been banging on how awful the posh boys were and how brilliant Mrs May was.Mortimer said:
Changing the subject old bean.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Mrs May knows so much better than the posh boys?Mortimer said:
Biggest issue raised on my knocking up yesterday? Disability cuts. Osborne did quite enough as chancellor 15-16 to retoxify the brand all on his own.TheScreamingEagles said:Mrs May is desperate to retoxify the Tory brand isn't she?
The D U fucking P.
We've done a deal with the party of Sammy 'The gays are poofs and perverts' Wilson.
Trust me in 2015 English voters weren't keen on sending their money to Scotland, they won't be happy about sending English money to Northern Ireland.
What has Northern Ireland ever done for England except brought terrorism to the mainland ?
Mrs May needs to be deposed before she fatally damages the Tories, if she already hasn't.
How do you propose to get to 326?
Well there are two very simple ways of getting to 326
1) Don't break your word and call a snap election and lose your majority
or
2) Fight a good general election campaign.
May is a stain on the Tory power, and the sooner she is removed the better.
I know you're angry - we all are. But now we have 318/19, we have to form a government....
Suck it up, your girl has been proven to be the pound shop Gordon Brown I warned you she'd be.
But the way you're talking you'd prefer a Corbyn government...
But Kensington has gone red under Mrs May's watch.
Let that sink in.
That's like Bootle going Blue.
As it is, it's more like Mansfield or Stoke South...
Though the dementia threat would also have played a part there.0 -
The Conservative vote is now extremely efficient. A small lead in votes gives a big lead in seats.MikeL said:
I'm sure more analysis is needed but the electoral map still seems to favour the Conservatives in the sense that a vote lead of just 2.4% (UK) has resulted in a lead of 56 seats.AndyJS said:I don't think there's any doubt Labour wasted votes in safe seats. If you increase your share by 9% you'd expect to make more than 30 net gains.
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You don't need to build - you need to restrict credit as currently house prices are based on the logic - monthly rent = monthly interest only mortgage rate * whatever the current ratio banks are using for security..glw said:
I doubt any of the current parties would do it. So we cram ever smaller and crappier houses into out cities, with tiny gardens and no useful parking, rather than do the bloody obvious and allow cities to expand.Cautiously_Outspoken said:
I actually do wonder which party is most likely to do this. The Tories would be crucified by their current voters but would gain future voters (would they arrive overnight though or over the years as the policy is felt?). It would obviously chime with the economic interests of many of the new (not New) Labour voters but I can imagine the abolition of the "green" belt may go down poorly with them at the same time.glw said:
A party truly serious about doing that would abolish green belts. I will be dead and buried long before that ever happens.kyf_100 said:Help To Buy was well intentioned but had the opposite effect of driving house prices up even further because of limited supply. The answer is to build, build, build.
Section 24 is a step in that direction but more needs to be done to both stop the expanse of buy to let and encourage the sale of some of those houses...
Oh and providing a plausible reason for saving money would help as well....0 -
The date on the billboard gives the game away that it was for a different election.Theuniondivvie said:More irony than an iron foundry in Ironville, KY.
https://twitter.com/Alconcalcia/status/873155829494689793
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Just a bit....midwinter said:
Bit careless to lose that then..GIN1138 said:
Since at least 1885 but probably before in some form or another...midwinter said:
How long had the Tories held Canterbury for before Mrs May bestrode the commons like a colossus?ThreeQuidder said:
If it were the old K&C, yes.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'd prefer a Tory majority government.Mortimer said:
For about the 19th time in the past day, I can accept that.TheScreamingEagles said:
For the last year you've been banging on how awful the posh boys were and how brilliant Mrs May was.Mortimer said:
Changing the subject old bean.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Mrs May knows so much better than the posh boys?Mortimer said:
Biggest issue raised on my knocking up yesterday? Disability cuts. Osborne did quite enough as chancellor 15-16 to retoxify the brand all on his own.TheScreamingEagles said:Mrs May is desperate to retoxify the Tory brand isn't she?
The D U fucking P.
We've done a deal with the party of Sammy 'The gays are poofs and perverts' Wilson.
Trust me in 2015 English voters weren't keen on sending their money to Scotland, they won't be happy about sending English money to Northern Ireland.
What has Northern Ireland ever done for England except brought terrorism to the mainland ?
Mrs May needs to be deposed before she fatally damages the Tories, if she already hasn't.
How do you propose to get to 326?
Well there are two very simple ways of getting to 326
1) Don't break your word and call a snap election and lose your majority
or
2) Fight a good general election campaign.
May is a stain on the Tory power, and the sooner she is removed the better.
I know you're angry - we all are. But now we have 318/19, we have to form a government....
Suck it up, your girl has been proven to be the pound shop Gordon Brown I warned you she'd be.
But the way you're talking you'd prefer a Corbyn government...
But Kensington has gone red under Mrs May's watch.
Let that sink in.
That's like Bootle going Blue.
As it is, it's more like Mansfield or Stoke South...0 -
I didn't realise how close the Tories came in Ashfield.0
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If the rumours are right its not the first time there has been deals between the UK government and the DUP - all denied but it was a fairly widespread accusation at the time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2116170/Gordon-Brown-defends-anti-terror-vote-tactics.html0 -
Conservative votes:
Bolsover 18,865
Kensington 16,313
Mansfield 23,392
Chelsea & Fulham 22,1790 -
The dailymash are knocking this election out of the park.Scott_P said:@joehullait: Just heading down Kensington miners club for a pint.
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It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK0
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Their real crime is keeping the Tories in power.Lucian_Fletcher said:It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK
If it was a waver thin majority, we'd still receive the abuse just directed solely at us.0 -
It's unlikely, but there's no cast iron-law to say that Labour will win in GE2022 either.Sean_F said:
The Conservative vote is now extremely efficient. A small lead in votes gives a big lead in seats.MikeL said:
I'm sure more analysis is needed but the electoral map still seems to favour the Conservatives in the sense that a vote lead of just 2.4% (UK) has resulted in a lead of 56 seats.AndyJS said:I don't think there's any doubt Labour wasted votes in safe seats. If you increase your share by 9% you'd expect to make more than 30 net gains.
A lot can happen between now and then.0 -
Exactly. Whereas SF hypothetically support the Coalition of Chaos would be promoting progressive democratic socialism.Casino_Royale said:
Their real crime is keeping the Tories in power.Lucian_Fletcher said:It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK
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A joint Amber Rudd-Michael Gove leadership ticket sounds very interesting.0
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+1Sean_F said:
Fuck Sinn Fein.TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.0 -
Where did I support the Caste system? I am an atheist FFS!TheScreamingEagles said:
You're obsessed.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't many people among YOUR co-religionists believe in homophobia and extremism?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.
Every time you mention this, I'll mention your tacit support for the vile caste system.
Do you deny many Muslims are homophobes and support terrorism?0 -
How does a joint ticket work?Casino_Royale said:A joint Amber Rudd-Michael Gove leadership ticket sounds very interesting.
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Thats because the arseholes don't like whats happened and others don't get that the DUP isn't quite what it used to be. It hasn't completed the change yet but it will.Lucian_Fletcher said:It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK
What many of them also don't get is that DUP in some areas have been more left of centre than right.0 -
That's a different issue - but building wouldn't fix the ownership issue as currently it will just give BTLers more things to buy.glw said:
The UK population is headed towards 70 million around 2030 and 75 million around 2040, we need to build. I do agree about BTL though.eek said:You don't need to build
If you want house owners you need to discourage BTL and that means restricting finance and actual ensuring there are other plausible ways to invest money that are perceived to be risk free...0 -
Middlesbrough South - 23,643another_richard said:Conservative votes:
Bolsover 18,865
Kensington 16,313
Mansfield 23,392
Chelsea & Fulham 22,179
Cities of London and Westminster - 18,005
Through the looking glass.0 -
In the same way you're a Hindu, I'm a Muslim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Where did I support the Caste system? I am an atheist FFS!TheScreamingEagles said:
You're obsessed.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't many people among YOUR co-religionists believe in homophobia and extremism?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.
Every time you mention this, I'll mention your tacit support for the vile caste system.
Do you deny many Muslims are homophobes and support terrorism?
Would you like me to list the homophobic laws India has?0 -
Here's the Telegraph's SCON breakaway article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/09/ruth-davidson-planning-scottish-tory-breakaway-challenges-theresa/0 -
I loved this one:Alistair said:
The dailymash are knocking this election out of the park.Scott_P said:@joehullait: Just heading down Kensington miners club for a pint.
THE UK is on its way to the polling station to make a decision it is certain it will regret.
The country, which has been making unappealing and disastrous decisions like this since at least 2005, actually believes this one to be the worst yet.
Voter Eleanor Shaw said: “It’s not just that the choice is bad, though it is dreadful. It’s that it bears no relation to what you’ll actually get.
“Like last time I voted Cameron, at the least I thought I’d get Cameron. Shit but safe. Instead I got a mad-eyed germophobe demanding a Brexit that can slice steel.
“I voted to leave the EU a little bit and we’re crashing out of everything, I voted Clegg and got a pet Clegg, and every single time it’s like but all the other options also sucked.
“In a year I’ll be going ‘Why did I do that? Why?’ but voting’s about getting it wrong, isn’t it? That’s half the fun.”
Something I found very powerful was “It’s not just that the choice is bad, though it is dreadful. It’s that it bears no relation to what you’ll actually get."
Since 2010, the British democratic system has really lost the link between what you vote for and what you get. If May goes this week after getting Blair '97 numbers of votes, and there isn't an election within, say, a year or two, then a lot of people haven't got what they voted for. That troubles me.0 -
I don't understand why so many present-day Conservatives support unrestricted migration, when that certainly wasn't the case from the 1950s to the 1980s.Sean_F said:
The view is that people will flock to the Conservatives if they promise to slash public spending and taxes, promote mass migration, and support the EU.Y0kel said:I have never understood the idea amongst some Conservatives that Osborne could be leader.
Net vote loser.
One of the reasons Thatcher got elected, and stayed in office, is immigration and she passed a couple of major pieces of legislation in her first term to address it.
They worked, it went away as an issue, and she got re-elected.0 -
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Okay, I very much agree about getting people off the "my house is my pension" viewpoint. We need to do that, but we have to build a lot more houses, where they are needed, and ideally of a better quality than we do now.eek said:That's a different issue - but building wouldn't fix the ownership issue. Things need to be tightened to discourage BTL and that means restricting finance and actual ensuring there are other plausible ways to invest money in ways that are perceived to be risk free...
A Tory party that won't or can't ensure that people can afford to buy a home of their own might as well shut up shop.0 -
Many thanks to all who helped pb.com keep going last night, The only time I had any difficulties getting on was when the exit poll was published and the denial from the pb.com Tories was a an absolute delight to behold.0
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I don't believe in reincarnation or astrology, or hundreds of different deities!TheScreamingEagles said:
In the same way you're a Hindu, I'm a Muslim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Where did I support the Caste system? I am an atheist FFS!TheScreamingEagles said:
You're obsessed.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't many people among YOUR co-religionists believe in homophobia and extremism?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.
Every time you mention this, I'll mention your tacit support for the vile caste system.
Do you deny many Muslims are homophobes and support terrorism?
Would you like me to list the homophobic laws India has?
But why do you pick on the DUP? Asian Indo-Pakistani culture is just as or even more homophobic!0 -
I'd lose my bet, but I wouldn't be displeased if that was kicked into the long grass now.The_Taxman said:I wonder when they will announce Donald Trumps state visit visit will be deferred again? Who ever is the successor to May will not want his Toxic dust to tarnish their reputation.
The man is a liability, and he isn't going to do us any favours at all.0 -
Brings back memories of that bizarre Clarke/Redwood joint ticket in 2001...Casino_Royale said:A joint Amber Rudd-Michael Gove leadership ticket sounds very interesting.
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Rudd as PM/Gove as Deputy PM and/or a Great Office of StateRobD said:
How does a joint ticket work?Casino_Royale said:A joint Amber Rudd-Michael Gove leadership ticket sounds very interesting.
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That can't be right.. PB Tories are never wrongChris_A said:Many thanks to all who helped pb.com keep going last night, The only time I had any difficulties getting on was when the exit poll was published and the denial from the pb.com Tories was a an absolute delight to behold.
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That'd work for meTheScreamingEagles said:
Rudd as PM/Gove as Deputy PM and/or a Great Office of StateRobD said:
How does a joint ticket work?Casino_Royale said:A joint Amber Rudd-Michael Gove leadership ticket sounds very interesting.
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If anything it might be good for the DUP to have some national scrutiny and prominence, if they become part of the mainstream it seems reasonable to think they might become more mainstream in terms of views as well.Y0kel said:Thats because the arseholes don't like whats happened and others don't get that the DUP isn't quite what it used to be. It hasn't completed the change yet but it will.
What many of them also don't get is that DUP in some areas have been more left of centre than right.
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Progressive Democratic Socialism...that sounds like something North Korea would put out in a communique...glw said:
Exactly. Whereas SF hypothetically support the Coalition of Chaos would be promoting progressive democratic socialism.Casino_Royale said:
Their real crime is keeping the Tories in power.Lucian_Fletcher said:It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK
What queasy conservatives need to get over, the little snowflakes, is no DUP involvement then door open for Corbyn. You think Arlene Foster wants that, you think Conservative voters want that?
Get f**king real
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Just for the record, and channeling Lord Mandelson, I'm supremely relaxed about the DUP coming on board.Y0kel said:
Thats because the arseholes don't like whats happened and others don't get that the DUP isn't quite what it used to be. It hasn't completed the change yet but it will.Lucian_Fletcher said:It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK
What many of them also don't get is that DUP in some areas have been more left of centre than right.0 -
They are doing what they accuse others of doing and using ignorance as a weapon. They can paint anything on the DUP and the true believers lap it up.Y0kel said:
Thats because the arseholes don't like whats happened and others don't get that the DUP isn't quite what it used to be. It hasn't completed the change yet but it will.Lucian_Fletcher said:It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK
What many of them also don't get is that DUP in some areas have been more left of centre than right.0 -
A perfect campaign would have still seen Corbyn enthuse and rally the Left, and the Tories suffer a loss of sheen and freshness, but might have saved an extra 25-35 seats.Sean_F said:
I think she was a rotten campaigner.midwinter said:
She lost seats and Cameron's majority to Jeremy Corbyn ffs . With no Ukip or lib dem challenge worth its salt. A slight difference I'd say.Sean_F said:There's not much difference between the appeal of May and Cameron, overall. One of them won 306 and 330 seats, the other won 318.
Osborne though, is about as popular as AIDS.
But, I think others would have struggled to do better.
People are sick of austerity. I don't see any easy way around this.
I doubt a landslide, such as it is, on the evidence we now have, was ever really practical.0 -
I suspect a lot of the criticism of May's proposed deal with the DUP is simply a manifestation of post-election hysteria, and doesn't really reflect the perception of the man on the Clapham omnibus (who in fairness is probably a Corbynite given the way London voted).
However, two points (unrelated to each other):
1) In the past Labour has not been that willing to criticise the Tories too loudly for potentially working with the DUP because they're not willing to endanger the peace process and because they might also need the DUP's assistance in the future. However, with the DUP absolutely ruling out working with Corbyn, and Corbyn being in favour of Irish unification, I think that restraint might well not be there this time.
2) I wonder if this result is not the worst possible result for the Tories. If they had won around ten seats less, Corbyn would have come to power on the back of the SNP and odds and sods. And, as David Herdson predicted a couple of weeks ago, a government led by him would probably have been incredibly weak and incompetent, having to deal with the contradictory demands of their voting coalition on Brexit, and in short time incredibly unpopular. With the Tories sitting on a bit over 300 seats and gaining seats at by-elections, they could have eventually succeeded in passing a vote of no confidence, bringing about an election in which they would likely won a good majority.
Ten-fifteen seats more and the Conservatives would have a majority, wouldn't need to depend on the DUP and would exercise a much greater degree of control over the political scene.
As it is, no other parties than the Tories can form a government, but they have no majority and are vulnerable to being overthrown by a couple of adverse by-elections. Theresa May's authority has also been shot to pieces, but at a time when the country can't really afford two months of leadership campaigning, meaning she remains in place at the head of a zombie government which slowly leaks authority and credibility.
What a total clusterfuck. Emigration to Canada or Australia increasingly looks like a good idea.0 -
LOL - shits changedanother_richard said:Conservative votes:
Bolsover 18,865
Kensington 16,313
Mansfield 23,392
Chelsea & Fulham 22,1790 -
Catching up with Cyclefree's earlier question - as a backbencher, Corbyn and other left-wingers routinely gave a hearing to critics of Government policy without spending much time scrutinising their detailed views on everything. Where something really nasty was pointed out, such holocaust denial, that was the end of the contact. I don't feel that if you meet someone, even in a friendly way, you incur liability of every view that they have ever expressed, though I think some more care would have been a good idea. I also don't think that if you support an organisation (e.g. Stop the War) you automatically agree with everything they say, or need to give a running commentary.HaroldO said:
Yup, it will become a mud fight....in one area where the Tories didn't have to fight as they had clear demarcation.Cyclefree said:
I'm going to enjoy seeing all those people who airily dismissed "every stupid quote, every daft past policy, every odd association" when it related to Jezza, McDonnell and their mates get very wound up when such things can be used to "smear" (I think this now the approved word) the Tories and their "friends".HaroldO said:Plus it doesn't matter what official DUP policy is, or what is in any agreement. Every stupid quote, every daft past policy, every odd association will be all over the news for weeks and weeks.
Owen Jones provided a classic example this morning.
Hypocrites.
Once in the leadership these contacts acquire greater weight and they have largely stopped. And in any case I think that talking to/visiting someone and inviting them into a key role in Government are different levels of engagement - the equivalent would be if, say, Corbyn were to urge that Sinn Fein be allowed to waive the oath of allegiance so they could take their seats and support a Labour government. I note that Scottish Conservatives, at least, seem to share my unease.
But we've been over this ground before and everyone's views are clear, so I'll leave it there for now.0 -
Wrong sort of voters, lower class.another_richard said:Conservative votes:
Bolsover 18,865
Kensington 16,313
Mansfield 23,392
Chelsea & Fulham 22,1790 -
The SCon/Con relationship now seems to me to feel a bit like the CDU/CSU in Germany.0
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The Tory party are about to undo a lot of Cameron's detoxification work, particularly with gay marriage, by associating themselves with a party whose views are not in line with the mainstream on the mainland. They are not planning on tainting themselves by seeking confidence and supply from a South Asian party, so the comparison really isn't relevant.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I don't believe in reincarnation or astrology, or hundreds of different deities!TheScreamingEagles said:
In the same way you're a Hindu, I'm a Muslim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Where did I support the Caste system? I am an atheist FFS!TheScreamingEagles said:
You're obsessed.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't many people among YOUR co-religionists believe in homophobia and extremism?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.
Every time you mention this, I'll mention your tacit support for the vile caste system.
Do you deny many Muslims are homophobes and support terrorism?
Would you like me to list the homophobic laws India has?
But why do you pick on the DUP? Asian Indo-Pakistani culture is just as or even more homophobic!0 -
The main argument against FPTP in my book is it leads to unstable governments and coalitions with tiny majorities often with fringe parties involved.MyBurningEars said:
Since 2010, the British democratic system has really lost the link between what you vote for and what you get. If May goes this week after getting Blair '97 numbers of votes, and there isn't an election within, say, a year or two, then a lot of people haven't got what they voted for. That troubles me.0 -
You know that - but the voters don't seem to care.glw said:
Moderates that sign up to Corbynism are not moderates.Freggles said:Labour are going to unite behind Corbyn now, massively energized, they need to get moderates into the Cabinet and continue to link May to Conservatism to get maximum toxicity.
A few by elections and they could take power.
May has put our country in a very bad position0 -
I thought you were in the pb.com Tories tribe some years back ;-)Chris_A said:Many thanks to all who helped pb.com keep going last night, The only time I had any difficulties getting on was when the exit poll was published and the denial from the pb.com Tories was a an absolute delight to behold.
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@Rich_1337: The youth vote, ladies and gentlemen
https://twitter.com/Rich_1337/status/873183906866102272/photo/10 -
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It differentiates them from the common herd.Casino_Royale said:
I don't understand why so many present-day Conservatives support unrestricted migration, when that certainly wasn't the case from the 1950s to the 1980s.Sean_F said:
The view is that people will flock to the Conservatives if they promise to slash public spending and taxes, promote mass migration, and support the EU.Y0kel said:I have never understood the idea amongst some Conservatives that Osborne could be leader.
Net vote loser.
One of the reasons Thatcher got elected, and stayed in office, is immigration and she passed a couple of major pieces of legislation in her first term to address it.
They worked, it went away as an issue, and she got re-elected.0 -
Ruth has to get a separate SCon brand as clearly separate from the UK Con brand as possible as fast as possible otherwise come the net election (be it Holyrood or Westminster) SCon will be a backlash target.0
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If that leads to a strong SCON party that is vying for a majority in the Scottish Parliament then so be it!Casino_Royale said:The SCon/Con relationship now seems to me to feel a bit like the CDU/CSU in Germany.
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Maybe one of the biggest mistakes by the Tories was to have such a long campaign. If you've decided on a snap election because the polls look good, surely the smart thing to do would be to have as short a campaign as possible so that time is limited if the polls do start to move against you.0
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Ironically having an independent centre-right party would also be a milestone towards operating as an independent country.Casino_Royale said:The SCon/Con relationship now seems to me to feel a bit like the CDU/CSU in Germany.
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I think it could have only been a week shorter.AndyJS said:Maybe one of the biggest mistakes was to have such a long campaign. If you're having a snap election because the polls look good, surely the smart thing to do would be to have as short a campaign as possible so that time is limited if the polls do start to move against you. Theresa May's decision to have a very long campaign seems like idiocy now.
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Scotland isn't going anywhere.williamglenn said:
Ironically having an independent centre-right party would also be a milestone towards operating as an independent country.Casino_Royale said:The SCon/Con relationship now seems to me to feel a bit like the CDU/CSU in Germany.
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"Many Labour voters share the DUP's homophobia" - discuss.MyBurningEars said:
The Tory party are about to undo a lot of Cameron's detoxification work, particularly with gay marriage, by associating themselves with a party whose views are not in line with the mainstream on the mainland. They are not planning on tainting themselves by seeking confidence and supply from a South Asian party, so the comparison really isn't relevant.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I don't believe in reincarnation or astrology, or hundreds of different deities!TheScreamingEagles said:
In the same way you're a Hindu, I'm a Muslim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Where did I support the Caste system? I am an atheist FFS!TheScreamingEagles said:
You're obsessed.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't many people among YOUR co-religionists believe in homophobia and extremism?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh
Sinn Fein says Tory/DUP alliance is in contravention of terms of Good Friday Agreement.
Every time you mention this, I'll mention your tacit support for the vile caste system.
Do you deny many Muslims are homophobes and support terrorism?
Would you like me to list the homophobic laws India has?
But why do you pick on the DUP? Asian Indo-Pakistani culture is just as or even more homophobic!0 -
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People who can't count vote Labour shocker!Scott_P said:@Rich_1337: The youth vote, ladies and gentlemen
https://twitter.com/Rich_1337/status/873183906866102272/photo/10 -
Isn't it the nature of democracy that the majority gets much of what it likes and a bit of what it doesn't, and that the minority gets the obverseMyBurningEars said:
I loved this one:Alistair said:
The dailymash are knocking this election out of the park.Scott_P said:@joehullait: Just heading down Kensington miners club for a pint.
THE UK is on its way to the polling station to make a decision it is certain it will regret.
The country, which has been making unappealing and disastrous decisions like this since at least 2005, actually believes this one to be the worst yet.
Voter Eleanor Shaw said: “It’s not just that the choice is bad, though it is dreadful. It’s that it bears no relation to what you’ll actually get.
“Like last time I voted Cameron, at the least I thought I’d get Cameron. Shit but safe. Instead I got a mad-eyed germophobe demanding a Brexit that can slice steel.
“I voted to leave the EU a little bit and we’re crashing out of everything, I voted Clegg and got a pet Clegg, and every single time it’s like but all the other options also sucked.
“In a year I’ll be going ‘Why did I do that? Why?’ but voting’s about getting it wrong, isn’t it? That’s half the fun.”
Something I found very powerful was “It’s not just that the choice is bad, though it is dreadful. It’s that it bears no relation to what you’ll actually get."
Since 2010, the British democratic system has really lost the link between what you vote for and what you get. If May goes this week after getting Blair '97 numbers of votes, and there isn't an election within, say, a year or two, then a lot of people haven't got what they voted for. That troubles me.0 -
A week could have made all the difference in terms of those extra 8 seats.RobD said:
I think it could have only been a week shorter.AndyJS said:Maybe one of the biggest mistakes was to have such a long campaign. If you're having a snap election because the polls look good, surely the smart thing to do would be to have as short a campaign as possible so that time is limited if the polls do start to move against you. Theresa May's decision to have a very long campaign seems like idiocy now.
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Conversely, none of the issues about Jeremy Corbyn have gone away.AndyJS said:Maybe one of the biggest mistakes by the Tories was to have such a long campaign. If you've decided on a snap election because the polls look good, surely the smart thing to do would be to have as short a campaign as possible so that time is limited if the polls do start to move against you.
He's not the messiah. And a long period in opposition with him fully under the spotlight - having become so popular during the campaign - might not necessarily be to his benefit.
If I were the Tories, I'd be undermining his economics and credibility for the next few years relentlessly, whilst positively engagingly with young voters-middle aged with an offer of their own based on economic reality.0 -
Yeah. North Korea. Please. Unionist snowflakes need to get over the fact that Mummy Britain is looking at them, perhaps for the first time, in disdain.Y0kel said:
Progressive Democratic Socialism...that sounds like something North Korea would put out in a communique...glw said:
Exactly. Whereas SF hypothetically support the Coalition of Chaos would be promoting progressive democratic socialism.Casino_Royale said:
Their real crime is keeping the Tories in power.Lucian_Fletcher said:It's surreal. I'm now defending the DUP on social media. I think I will never forgive the Corbyn fans for that. They seem to be trying to suggest they are an unmasked version of the KKK
What queasy conservatives need to get over, the little snowflakes, is no DUP involvement then door open for Corbyn. You think Arlene Foster wants that, you think Conservative voters want that?
Get f**king real0 -
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