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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Caught in the backwash. The SNP subsides and the Conservatives

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Scottish Green Party?
    A bit too eccentric for me and too many crazy ideas even if some good ones. However it would indeed be only other choice even if too small to be effective.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502

    I enjoy Malcolm's insults.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422


    Which no-hope/super safe seat is Corbyn visiting today?

    Super safe - 51% majority - just a couple of stops on the bus down from his own constituency.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    MaxPB said:

    Germany yes, France and Italy no. Scotland would be one tiny voice in 28 even more impotent than Blair's government which had the power of being the second largest economy in the EU. Scotland will be told to jump and Nicola would have to say "how high, master?". I support Scottish independence, but what's the point of replacing Westminster with Brussels? Bring it all home to Edinburgh.
    Tiny voice would be better than no voice for me. Once independent we can decide whether or not we want to be in EU. At present we cannot even choose to be in or out we are told what we are doing whether we like it or not , that is the key difference.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    Just put a semi-jokey quid on Nutall for Boston.

    I look forward to him telling all about the bar he used to run there for many years where everyone knew your name.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited April 2017
    malcolmg said:

    OKC, it is indeed boring , what do you expect when Tories SNP are in government , they cannot avoid crowing and denigrating the opposition. Not an edifying sight for sure, what else can you do but poke sticks at their stupid thin hides.
    Fixed it for you. No charge.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,820
    Sean_F said:

    I enjoy Malcolm's insults.
    PB wouldn't be the same without them. I don't think you can be a proper PBer without having been insulted by Malc at least once.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    Is it just me or my browser, but didn't you use to be able to embed an actual tweet in a post, rather than just display a http link? This was automatic I thought.

    I've noticed that today as well - I suspect something in Vanilla has changed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    HaroldO said:

    I have to say, you manage to post comments on another posters intelligence whilst coming out with that lot blimey. And with all the extra spaces too. And it's hard workers like me that put food into those little boxes in supermarkets so you can pick it up at a food bank and scoff it on park bench.

    Spouting cliches? I wouldn't be surprised at you wearing full tweed at your keyboard, drinking Irn-Bru and cursing Newton for having written about the mechanics of gravity because some good honest Scot would have got there first if he hadn't been held back. You are an archetypal nationalist, overtly positive about where you come from for no other reason than you come from there.

    Am I a patriot of the UK? Yes. Am I a nationalist? No, never have been. I prefer Polish food and scenery, Welsh cider and rugby, and NZ cities.
    Dear dear, one does not eat off a park bench. Enjoy your little life it sounds wonderful.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Voters have become increasingly disillusioned with Nicola Sturgeon’s record on key domestic issues — including her high-profile efforts to improve Scottish education — according to a new poll.

    In findings which could have a significant impact on her party’s performance in June’s general election, the YouGov poll found that the first minister has so far failed to persuade voters that her government is solving the country’s problems on health, the economy and education.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/voters-lose-faith-in-snp-record-on-domestic-issues-poll-shows-0mf2x6rrf
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,716

    F1: P3 underway. Will the Prancing Horse be faster than a Silver Arrow?

    Will Force India or Williams top the midfield?

    Will McLaren break down?

    Mercedes seem to be getting on top of their tyre problem - but Ferrari going quicker.
    I have now laid most of my Ferrari weekend bets at a profit (possibly prematurely).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    You self quoting about yourself there
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    I disagree with Alastair's proposition that the Conservative surge is not taking place in Glasgow.

    A rising tide lifts all boats ! Even those moored on the Clyde. It may not do much for Tory MP numbers. I do not know what's happening in Cathcart. But they lost that in 1979.

    The Tories will certainly be helped by the surge, no doubt. But this idea that the surge will happen in exactly where they would like it to be is fanciful.

    Well, if there was PR........
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478
    F1: Vettel currently 0.7s faster than Mercedes.

    Surprising. The effect of banning oil burning? Sandbagging?
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    malcolmg said:

    Dear dear, one does not eat off a park bench. Enjoy your little life it sounds wonderful.
    Good, I am glad to hear it.
    My life is...average, no better and no worse than most. Then I come on here infrequently and see the high earners chatting away and that puts me in my place a bit, which I have no problem with.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Sean_F said:

    I enjoy Malcolm's insults.
    Sean, carlotta has no sense of humour , she is just a Tory CCHQ cypher with no experience of real life. She is the type who would be saying "let the poor eat cake", as she stuffed another lobster down her thrapple.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,550

    Where's Easter Ross these days

    Still banned, I believe.... I know not why.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MaxPB said:

    PB wouldn't be the same without them. I don't think you can be a proper PBer without having been insulted by Malc at least once.
    I have not been insulted by Malc, or I didn't feel it was. Then again he is in a minority here. PB Tories are what , 90%, here ? And, some of them true fascists to boot [ no pun intended ] !
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Fascinating!

    The most 'British' place is in Oldham - where 43% were born outside the UK.

    The least 'British' place is in Dundee - where only 4% were born outside the UK, but it is strongly SNP with "education and economic indicators significantly below average"</blockquote

    you will rue the day ....... anyway FREEDOM
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    I've noticed that today as well - I suspect something in Vanilla has changed.
    Chocolate chip flavour today
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Voters have become increasingly disillusioned with Nicola Sturgeon’s record on key domestic issues — including her high-profile efforts to improve Scottish education — according to a new poll.

    In findings which could have a significant impact on her party’s performance in June’s general election, the YouGov poll found that the first minister has so far failed to persuade voters that her government is solving the country’s problems on health, the economy and education.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/voters-lose-faith-in-snp-record-on-domestic-issues-poll-shows-0mf2x6rrf

    squeak , squeak , squeak
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    malcolmg said:

    Sean, carlotta has no sense of humour , she is just a Tory CCHQ cypher with no experience of real life. She is the type who would be saying "let the poor eat cake", as she stuffed another lobster down her thrapple.
    Malcolm, I fear you have yet to learn the difference between people laughing with you and people laughing at you......
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    surbiton said:

    I disagree with Alastair's proposition that the Conservative surge is not taking place in Glasgow.

    A rising tide lifts all boats ! Even those moored on the Clyde. It may not do much for Tory MP numbers. I do not know what's happening in Cathcart. But they lost that in 1979.

    The Tories will certainly be helped by the surge, no doubt. But this idea that the surge will happen in exactly where they would like it to be is fanciful.

    Well, if there was PR........

    Polls suggesting they have reached double digits or something else unbelievable like that.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Want an outside chance of a Tory gain in Scotland? I give you Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock. Odds available aren't great but it's an interesting one if Labour's vote collapses.
    Or be brave and try Argyll and bute
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,035

    It is exactly what the Brexiteers have said all along. The EU are fools and unless they relent in early negotiations we will be lead out by TM with the backing of the Nation. We will not be disrespected by anyone
    I get that you are an uber-loyal Tory, you loyally voted Remain when that's what Cameron wanted and you loyally back Brexit now it's what Mrs May wants.

    No problem with that but please stop deluding yourself by saying things like "TM with the backing of the Nation" Yes she will win the election handsomely but 50% of the country will not have voted for and and the country is split right down the middle on Brexit and moving more against if anything.

    I know many Tories think the country and the Tory party are synonymous but they really aren't
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited April 2017
    malcolmg said:

    Sean, carlotta has no sense of humour , she is just a Tory CCHQ cypher with no experience of real life. She is the type who would be saying "let the poor eat cake", as she stuffed another lobster down her thrapple.
    But you have to admire her work ethic. Previously, she and Fitalass did different shifts. Now they are on sometimes together in the middle of the night making sure they dominate the drift of the posts. Working overtime in a tax heaven [ haven ? ].
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,716

    F1: Vettel currently 0.7s faster than Mercedes.

    Surprising. The effect of banning oil burning? Sandbagging?

    Tyres. This is clearly a very tough track to get the balance exactly right this year, and the difference between getting it right and not is of far more significance than the relatively minor difference between the two powerplants.
    Sandbagging is not a thing - Mercedes are genuinely struggling to get the optimum performance out of their car.

    Interesting for the championship - Ferrari clearly have a better chassis, but there are real questions about their engine reliability. They are using their third turbo here, and although they say they'll be able to re-use the other two, that is not a good sign.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    It's still my expectation that the Liberal Democrats will have a very good set of local elections. At that point, expect the full force of the Conservative machine and their allies in the press to turn its fire on Farron and his party. We've had an early stress test of the Liberal Democrats' strength under fire. It doesn't bode well for what's to come.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/04/lib-dems-troubled-start-doesnt-bode-well-them
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    (((Dan Hodges)))‏Verified account @DPJHodges 1m1 minute ago
    Jeremy Corbyn currently talking about 1983 and sanctions on South Africa. And how he got arrested
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    HaroldO said:

    Haha, so you go off on one about my comment and I have to grow a thick skin? Blimey, I can see where Saint Nic gets her U turn lessons from and it's surprisingly not Philip Hammond.

    A scared cow is a daft misspelling of sacred heh.

    Ah.
    I thought 'scared cow' might be a new term for pols that avoid tv debates, unscripted questions from the public, talking to people who, gasp, may not vote for them and wander aimlessy round empty factories in towns the names of which they can't remember.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    malcolmg said:

    Polls suggesting they have reached double digits or something else unbelievable like that.
    Double digits in terms of MPs ? Haven't PB Tory bettors gobbled up all the bets on offer ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502
    OllyT said:

    I get that you are an uber-loyal Tory, you loyally voted Remain when that's what Cameron wanted and you loyally back Brexit now it's what Mrs May wants.

    No problem with that but please stop deluding yourself by saying things like "TM with the backing of the Nation" Yes she will win the election handsomely but 50% of the country will not have voted for and and the country is split right down the middle on Brexit and moving more against if anything.

    I know many Tories think the country and the Tory party are synonymous but they really aren't
    Theresa May is the Mother of the Nation.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    surbiton said:

    I have not been insulted by Malc, or I didn't feel it was. Then again he is in a minority here. PB Tories are what , 90%, here ? And, some of them true fascists to boot [ no pun intended ] !
    Indeed Surbiton, but I only chastise those who are rude to me or post incredibly crass and insensitive Tory dogma or complete bollox. By the way you missed a "jack" from your unintended pun
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Yes, very possibly true. But you're missing my point. I don't think she will have the option of walking away because I think from early indications the EU are getting ready to storm out first. Which as I have set out above is a position reckless to the point of insanity, so we probably shouldn't be surprised that Verhfostadt and Juncker are enthusiastically preparing for it.
    Fundamentally this sums up why we are having this election.

    Verhfostadt/Juncker are playing brinkmanship because they believe that May can't survive a diamond hard Brexit: they are upping the ante.

    But if May has a big enough majority then she can face them down - basically say "bring it on" and hope that they blink (which I believe they will). Macron would understand this as he is an excellent but not reckless negotiator.

    Vote Tory to ensure we get the best possible terms... :wink:
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    edited April 2017
    FF43 said:

    1 and 3 certainly. They are not interested in 2. "Bully" is an emotive term. This is business. The EU are apparently playing a strong hand well. We're definitely playing a weak hand badly. The EU will want a deal. No deal is a failure for them as well being very bad for us.

    All this was entirely predictable back at the time of the referendum. I had several discussions about it.

    There is a fantasy world inhabited by wealthy, right-wing Brexiteers in which plucky Brits applaud cod-Churchillian speeches from them and stomach losing their jobs, paying more tax and seeing public services cut even further in order to show the EUSSR we will not be brow-beaten by anyone. We'll see if that turns out to be the case.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,716
    malcolmg said:

    Sean, carlotta has no sense of humour , she is just a Tory CCHQ cypher with no experience of real life. She is the type who would be saying "let the poor eat cake", as she stuffed another lobster down her thrapple.
    I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think she genuinely admires Theresa May, however strange that might seem to you.
    As for sense of humour....... No, I've got nothing.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,530
    John Stevens‏Verified account @johnestevens 3m3 minutes ago

    Why's Jezza giving a speech in a seat with a 24,000 Labour majority? Parking his tanks on his own lawn


    Labour HQ continuing to keep Jezza away from the front line.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Europe Elects‏ @EuropeElects
    France: Presidential election (run-off), Odoxa poll:

    Macron (EM-*): 59% (-4)
    Fillon (LR-EPP): 41% (+4)
  • OllyT said:

    I get that you are an uber-loyal Tory, you loyally voted Remain when that's what Cameron wanted and you loyally back Brexit now it's what Mrs May wants.

    No problem with that but please stop deluding yourself by saying things like "TM with the backing of the Nation" Yes she will win the election handsomely but 50% of the country will not have voted for and and the country is split right down the middle on Brexit and moving more against if anything.

    I know many Tories think the country and the Tory party are synonymous but they really aren't
    In the context of this mornings report that TM will capitulate to the EU demands this Country will swing behind TM in big numbers. It is to be hoped that the EU will be more friendly otherwise the EU and the UK will be on a collision course - the suggestion that the UK will capitulate was the language that causes the anger
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    surbiton said:

    But you have to admire her work ethic. Previously, she and Fitalass did different shifts. Now they are on sometimes together in the middle of the night making sure they dominate the drift of the posts. Working overtime in a tax heaven [ haven ? ].
    Hard to believe the hours she puts in , Fitalaff just does nights , but Carlotta emulates her hero Maggie by only taking a few hours sleep. Margaret Rutherford would be proud of her.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478
    Mr. B, interesting point on reliability. Agree on tyres, Ferrari is better with them.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185


    Ah.
    I thought 'scared cow' might be a new term for pols that avoid tv debates, unscripted questions from the public, talking to people who, gasp, may not vote for them and wander aimlessy round empty factories in towns the names of which they can't remember.
    May has gone full Nixon in '72 yes, which is odd for someone that has been at the coal face with the membership for so long. You would think that she would be used to voters out in the field.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,317
    edited April 2017
    HaroldO said:

    May has gone full Nixon in '72 yes, which is odd for someone that has been at the coal face with the membership for so long. You would think that she would be used to voters out in the field.
    Why risk anything when she is so far ahead? She might think that her people skills may hinder the Conservatives chances rather than help them

    Seems pretty sensible really
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Charles said:

    Verhfostadt/Juncker are playing brinkmanship because they believe that May can't survive a diamond hard Brexit: they are upping the ante.

    But if May has a big enough majority then she can face them down - basically say "bring it on" and hope that they blink (which I believe they will).

    The size of TMay's majority makes NO DIFFERENCE to the EU

    If TMay can't survive a hard Brexit, the size of her majority is irrelevant, and they know it
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Want an outside chance of a Tory gain in Scotland? I give you Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock. Odds available aren't great but it's an interesting one if Labour's vote collapses.
    Or be brave and try Argyll and bute

    Soth Ayr maybe but hard to see the other areas being Tory given what they did to them. I doubt you would find a Tory in Cumnock unless it was the village idiot.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ShippersUnbound: In Bethnal Green: Anyone would think Corbyn was shoring up his base for the 3rd leadership contest rather than trying to win seats...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,716
    Charles said:

    Fundamentally this sums up why we are having this election.

    Verhfostadt/Juncker are playing brinkmanship because they believe that May can't survive a diamond hard Brexit: they are upping the ante.

    But if May has a big enough majority then she can face them down - basically say "bring it on" and hope that they blink (which I believe they will). Macron would understand this as he is an excellent but not reckless negotiator.

    Vote Tory to ensure we get the best possible terms... :wink:
    Until the French, UK and German elections are safely out of the way, none of the posturing has much meaning.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,820
    malcolmg said:

    Tiny voice would be better than no voice for me. Once independent we can decide whether or not we want to be in EU. At present we cannot even choose to be in or out we are told what we are doing whether we like it or not , that is the key difference.

    What choice is there? Scotland becomes independent and the SNP immediately apply for EU membership and then you essentially become an outpost of Brussels. Scotland is 12% of the UK and has 12% of legislative power in the UK. In the EU at best Scotland gets 1/28 commissioners (a poor portfolio, not something like internal markets or financial markets) and 8 MEPs out of 680. Scotland's voice in the EU. Will be about as powerful as Latvia and Scotland will have one ally (Ireland) who are not really to be relied on because they are in the Eurozone and have other priorities.

    There is no real independence for Scotland which is why so many former Yes voters are shifting to the No camp. Better to be 12% than 1%. There is no 100% option on offer, sorry Malc.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    malcolmg said:

    I like independence, SNP are currently the only Scottish political party in Scotland so I have no option but to "like" them.
    Malc, didn't you once write you were actually a Tory ? Let me clarify, once Scotland is independent and people return to vote in their own ideological space, your likely vote will be Tory. Am I recalling incorrectly?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Nigelb said:

    I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think she genuinely admires Theresa May, however strange that might seem to you.
    As for sense of humour....... No, I've got nothing.

    Nigel, If the tories put up an old spot with lipstick on she would admire it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,330
    edited April 2017
    surbiton said:

    I disagree with Alastair's proposition that the Conservative surge is not taking place in Glasgow.

    A rising tide lifts all boats ! Even those moored on the Clyde. It may not do much for Tory MP numbers. I do not know what's happening in Cathcart. But they lost that in 1979.

    The Tories will certainly be helped by the surge, no doubt. But this idea that the surge will happen in exactly where they would like it to be is fanciful.

    Well, if there was PR........

    There's certainly a Unionist vote in Glasgow, one which the Kippertories have courted assiduously all the way to the outer reaches of loony Loyalism. Whether it'll amount to an electoral hill of beans is another matter. The locals next week should be a pretty good indicator.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478
    F1: Renault's pretty handy over one lap. Shame for them you don't get any points for qualifying.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    isam said:


    Why risk anything when she is so far ahead? She might think that her people skills may hinder the Conservatives chances rather than help them

    Seems pretty sensible really

    Sterile though, very sterile. Unless she starts to work her way into events with actual voters of course, then it may at least be something sensible.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    malcolmg said:

    Soth Ayr maybe but hard to see the other areas being Tory given what they did to them. I doubt you would find a Tory in Cumnock unless it was the village idiot.
    Agreed a very tough ask but they have always scored into the 20s here even in 97 etc. If the labour vote collapses there's a small chance. Odds available are 11/2 though which is not value for me. It's a 7 or 8-1 shot. Definitely worth seeing if they can break into the 30s here.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Sean_F said:

    Theresa May is the Mother of the Nation.
    Sean you missed out an important word starting with F that should have come after "mother"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    F1: Renault's pretty handy over one lap. Shame for them you don't get any points for qualifying.

    One of them was pretty handy. Young Joylon Palmer, on the other hand, when your weekend goes from bad to worse...
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MaxPB said:

    What choice is there? Scotland becomes independent and the SNP immediately apply for EU membership and then you essentially become an outpost of Brussels. Scotland is 12% of the UK and has 12% of legislative power in the UK. In the EU at best Scotland gets 1/28 commissioners (a poor portfolio, not something like internal markets or financial markets) and 8 MEPs out of 680. Scotland's voice in the EU. Will be about as powerful as Latvia and Scotland will have one ally (Ireland) who are not really to be relied on because they are in the Eurozone and have other priorities.

    There is no real independence for Scotland which is why so many former Yes voters are shifting to the No camp. Better to be 12% than 1%. There is no 100% option on offer, sorry Malc.
    Maybe, Malc wants that like the people of Estonia, Latvia,......Finland, Denmark, Ireland.....shall I go on ?

    Scots have no historical enmity with any country other than England.

    Remember, Scots will happily lose the World Cup if only they could beat England.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    Charles said:

    Fundamentally this sums up why we are having this election.

    Verhfostadt/Juncker are playing brinkmanship because they believe that May can't survive a diamond hard Brexit: they are upping the ante.

    But if May has a big enough majority then she can face them down - basically say "bring it on" and hope that they blink (which I believe they will). Macron would understand this as he is an excellent but not reckless negotiator.

    Vote Tory to ensure we get the best possible terms... :wink:
    Yes she can keep her and her chums at the trough for 5 years while the peasants starve and regret their stupidity.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    malcolmg said:

    Sean you missed out an important word starting with F that should have come after "mother"
    LOL. That was a good one !
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Extraordinary, and yet completely unsurprising

    @DPJHodges: In that speech Corbyn effectively said "if you backed Labour in the past, you were wrong".
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    Election night arrangements.

    Phone off.
    Feet up.
    PB on iPad on lap.
    Sky News on the box. (We're a Dimblebore/Vine-free zone.) Sound mostly off except when Thrasher is on.

    Oh, I forgot the large glass to hand. (Gin, since you ask.) And, new this year, the large hopper on the roof decanting popcorn through a custom-built chute. You know, like a pet feeding station, only bigger.

    Occasional breaks for other politically-incorrect foodstuffs, and personal comfort.

    Works for me.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Glen O'Hara:
    If big #Labour message really is 'young people, register to vote', then starting to get pretty frightened for them. Not worried: frightened.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478
    F1: Palmer's got to change his engine.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Why? Hackney South and Shoreditch constituency most be one of Labour’s safest seats.
    Even Jeremy can't lose that one?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,317
    HaroldO said:

    Sterile though, very sterile. Unless she starts to work her way into events with actual voters of course, then it may at least be something sensible.
    It seems that at a time of uncertainty, & when the alternative is wacky, sterile is a winner. You can tell its the right thing to do because all her critics want her to do something else.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,820
    surbiton said:

    Maybe, Malc wants that like the people of Estonia, Latvia,......Finland, Denmark, Ireland.....shall I go on ?

    Scots have no historical enmity with any country other than England.

    Remember, Scots will happily lose the World Cup if only they could beat England.
    Maybe, but a third of Yes voters went for Leave. A large proportion of SNP voters went for Leave​. There are too many Scottish people who want proper independence and Yes will never get over the line without them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478
    Mr. Sandpit, I was referring only to the car.

    I do think Palmer will be thrown overboard at the end of the season, if they can get someone closer to Hulkenberg's pace.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    There are no words...

    @tompeck: @DPJHodges "If you're young, as so many are nowadays." He genuinely said that.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    isam said:

    It seems that at a time of uncertainty, & when the alternative is wacky, sterile is a winner. You can tell its the right thing to do because all her critics want her to do something else.
    May benefits from being the least worst option amongst the major party leaders currently, so yes cutting herself off could work (and is).
    But....is it good for us as a democracy really?
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Scott_P said:

    There are no words...

    @tompeck: @DPJHodges "If you're young, as so many are nowadays." He genuinely said that.

    Surely it was a gag.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    surbiton said:

    Malc, didn't you once write you were actually a Tory ? Let me clarify, once Scotland is independent and people return to vote in their own ideological space, your likely vote will be Tory. Am I recalling incorrectly?
    I would say I am right leaning but would say a Tory with a heart , so centre right. If there was a real Scottish Tory party I may vote that way , unfortunately the ones that are running the party are a bunch of London sockpuppets only there to grease their own palms. Some really objectionable nasty oicks in their ranks. I also detest their sectarian leanings.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    malcolmg said:

    Hard to believe the hours she puts in , Fitalaff just does nights , but Carlotta emulates her hero Maggie by only taking a few hours sleep. Margaret Rutherford would be proud of her.
    Yup. Really admirable. A Tory junkie now on steroids.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    surbiton said:

    Yup. Really admirable. A Tory junkie now on steroids. I have to say she is not a Plato, who was bitter and twisted.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    surbiton said:

    Maybe, Malc wants that like the people of Estonia, Latvia,......Finland, Denmark, Ireland.....shall I go on ?

    Scots have no historical enmity with any country other than England.

    Remember, Scots will happily lose the World Cup if only they could beat England.
    I would settle for qualifying now and again.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited April 2017
    Morning Saboteurs.

    Interesting piece from Anti-Frank. The revival of the Tories and the decline of Labour, in complete reverse to what was happening 20 years ago in Scotland, tells us that in politics nothing lasts forever!

    In other news beers and "nibbles" are on standby for another mega-polling Saturday evening.

    C.U. Later! :smiley:
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Europe Elects‏ @EuropeElects
    France: Presidential election (run-off), Odoxa poll:

    Macron (EM-*): 59% (-4)
    Fillon (LR-EPP): 41% (+4)

    Fillon has already been eliminated!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    ydoethur said:

    <

    Yes, very possibly true. But you're missing my point. I don't think she will have the option of walking away because I think from early indications the EU are getting ready to storm out first. Which as I have set out above is a position reckless to the point of insanity, so we probably shouldn't be surprised that Verhfostadt and Juncker are enthusiastically preparing for it.

    Actually they are letting the clock run out. I don't know if that changes your point.

    Verhfostadt and Juncker aren't the important ones here. They are Tusk and Merkel. The rest do what they are told. These genuinely appear to be concerned by a lack of realism on the UK side. It's not just posturing.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: Corbyn is “scary”, “silly”, “a joke”, “a wet blanket”, according to focus group in Slough via @JamesDMorris… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/858262708822650882
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Jeremy Corbyn is seen by voters as “scary”, “silly”, “a joke”, “a wet blanket” – and the biggest obstacle to them backing Labour in the general election, a new HuffPost UK-Edelman focus group has found. Men and women from ‘ordinary working families’ in the key seat of Slough were scathing about everything from the scruffy state of the Labour leader’s garden to his failure to sing the national anthem. Several liked Labour’s policies on the NHS and pay caps, but most ridiculed its plan for extra bank holidays and said that the presence of Corbyn was the main deterrent to backing the party.

    In one striking remark, a lifelong Labour voter said he would switch to the Tories with the sole intention of removing Corbyn as party leader.

    By contrast, while many of them thought the Tory party was for “the upper classes”, they are prepared to vote for Theresa May because she is a formidable woman leader who can deliver “a strong Brexit”.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-turning-off-labour-voters-in-slough-huffpost-uk-edelman-focus-group-finds_uk_5904443ce4b05c39767fcab0
  • isamisam Posts: 41,317
    HaroldO said:

    May benefits from being the least worst option amongst the major party leaders currently, so yes cutting herself off could work (and is).
    But....is it good for us as a democracy really?
    For the country as a democracy I shouldn't think it matters whether she goes out and meets the public to curry favour or not really. Not many people meet the PM and I reckon they still feel part of the democratic process. To me Mrs May seems a little socially awkward, so I can understand her not wanting to accentuate that part of her personality.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    isam said:

    It seems that at a time of uncertainty, & when the alternative is wacky, sterile is a winner. You can tell its the right thing to do because all her critics want her to do something else.

    It's a very effective way to fight a campaign against a dismal opponent. But May might be better off thinking about the longer term. She could be using this election to build a genuine rapport with voters, instead of avoiding them. At some stage the proper Brexit negotiations will begin and hard choices will be unavoidable. Banking goodwill for that moment might have been a wise strategy given that she is fighting an election that it is literally impossible for her to lose.

  • Scott_P said:

    Extraordinary, and yet completely unsurprising

    @DPJHodges: In that speech Corbyn effectively said "if you backed Labour in the past, you were wrong".

    logically makes sense - he didn't back Labour in the past so he was right and 'they' weren't
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    malcolmg said:

    Soth Ayr maybe but hard to see the other areas being Tory given what they did to them. I doubt you would find a Tory in Cumnock unless it was the village idiot.
    It's a long shot to be sure. The old Ayr consituncey was a Tory bastion until the early 90s under George Younger and whilst the town will certainly vote tory, there will not be enough support in the former mining villages of the hinterlands. Some of the former prodestant labour support will have transferred to the Tories, but not enough.

    2022 maybe.
  • John Stevens‏Verified account @johnestevens 3m3 minutes ago

    Why's Jezza giving a speech in a seat with a 24,000 Labour majority? Parking his tanks on his own lawn


    Labour HQ continuing to keep Jezza away from the front line.

    Labour's own General Melchett

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Daa8ZnxC-0Y
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    surbiton said:

    Yup. Really admirable. A Tory junkie now on steroids.
    Worst thing is Scottish Tories are like those that give up smoking or find religion late in life, they have to try so hard to prove how good a Tory they are to their "lifelong Tory" pals down south. So they are twice as nasty to the poor etc and much more right wing and sneering etc.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    GIN1138 said:

    Morning Saboteurs.

    Interesting piece from Anti-Frank. The revival of the Tories and the decline of Labour, in complete reverse to what was happening 20 years ago in Scotland, tells us that in politics nothing lasts forever!

    In other news beers and "nibbles" are on standby for another mega-polling Saturday evening.

    C.U. Later! :smiley:

    Morning and goodbye GIN
  • isamisam Posts: 41,317
    edited April 2017

    It's a very effective way to fight a campaign against a dismal opponent. But May might be better off thinking about the longer term. She could be using this election to build a genuine rapport with voters, instead of avoiding them. At some stage the proper Brexit negotiations will begin and hard choices will be unavoidable. Banking goodwill for that moment might have been a wise strategy given that she is fighting an election that it is literally impossible for her to lose.

    I kind of said this to HaroldO, but it seems to me that she isn't particularly suited to impromptu banter with the public, and meeting them may lose her goodwill rather than bank it. I don't really see how meeting the public in a forced environment really matters one way or the other really, unless you are particularly good at it, or are a small player like UKIP relying on a big personality (Farage) to gain traction.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,820
    malcolmg said:

    Worst thing is Scottish Tories are like those that give up smoking or find religion late in life, they have to try so hard to prove how good a Tory they are to their "lifelong Tory" pals down south. So they are twice as nasty to the poor etc and much more right wing and sneering etc.
    Twice as nasty to the poor? Do they eat twice as many babies in Scotland too? I should try and make it up to Edinburgh one day, sounds like I'm missing out.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited April 2017
    malcolmg said:

    Sean you missed out an important word starting with F that should have come after "mother"
    Morning Malc. :)

    You just made me laugh our loud, which is never a bad thing on a Saturday morning. :smiley:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    It's a long shot to be sure. The old Ayr consituncey was a Tory bastion until the early 90s under George Younger and whilst the town will certainly vote tory, there will not be enough support in the former mining villages of the hinterlands. Some of the former prodestant labour support will have transferred to the Tories, but not enough.

    2022 maybe.
    Yes , apart from Alloway the area has gone to the dogs. South Ayrshire which is Tory run has teh worst roads you will find anywhere. As you say the rest has been wrecked by Tory policies and will take a long long time to ever forget it.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    malcolmg said:

    Sean you missed out an important word starting with F that should have come after "mother"
    Figure?
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    MaxPB said:

    Germany yes, France and Italy no. Scotland would be one tiny voice in 28 even more impotent than Blair's government which had the power of being the second largest economy in the EU. Scotland will be told to jump and Nicola would have to say "how high, master?". I support Scottish independence, but what's the point of replacing Westminster with Brussels? Bring it all home to Edinburgh.
    Independent countries?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/28/yanis-varoufakis-brexit-advice-theresa-may-avoid-negotiating/

    Utter, utter bastards.

    Compulsory reading for all pols and diplomats dealing with the EU from now. Even with the sore-loser filter in, you see Varoufakis' point.


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Tom Gordon‏ @HTScotPol 8m8 minutes ago
    Scot Labour says its candidate list for June reflects "the diversity of 21st century Scotland".
    It includes the deputy leader's daughter
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,555
    HaroldO said:

    Surely it was a gag.
    Well, youth is relative...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MaxPB said:

    Twice as nasty to the poor? Do they eat twice as many babies in Scotland too? I should try and make it up to Edinburgh one day, sounds like I'm missing out.

    @itvnews: '@NicolaSturgeon's constituency is a slum' - residents slam the First Minister of Scotland for being distracted wit… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/844350922297950208
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    surbiton said:

    But you have to admire her work ethic. Previously, she and Fitalass did different shifts. Now they are on sometimes together in the middle of the night making sure they dominate the drift of the posts. Working overtime in a tax heaven [ haven ? ].
    Just how does one put certain users on ignore?

    Asking for a friend
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    isam said:

    I kind of said this to HaroldO, but it seems to me that she isn't particularly suited to impromptu banter with the public, and meeting them may lose her goodwill rather than bank it. I don't really see how meeting the public in a forced environment really matters one way or the other really, unless you are particularly good at it, or are a small player like UKIP relying on a big personality (Farage) to gain traction.
    I have never seen her speak to the public, it is always staged events with stooges. Says it all.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    Figure?
    Not even close , starts with Fu and ends with er, so fairly easy to guess.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Sandpit said:

    One of them was pretty handy. Young Joylon Palmer, on the other hand, when your weekend goes from bad to worse...
    In my head I always picture Jolyon Palmer as a cross between Jolyon Green and @NickPalmer...
This discussion has been closed.