politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Remember five months ago when Hammond thought he was unsackabl
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You're like a Trump supporter, I pointed out the facts, that her ratings had slide 4% but that she's still got a net positive rating.felix said:
Anybody would think that TSE was pushing his own rather silly agenda here ... and getting nowhere.CarlottaVance said:
IPSOS/Mori on the other hand say....Ratings of the party leaders show little change over the month, with the Prime Minister’s honeymoon showing no sign of ending.TheScreamingEagles said:
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Sean
If they consider their job to be defeated they have indeed done it.0 -
Ruth has certainly made her opinion on Westminster blocking a 2nd referendum very clear in the past, trouble is she's made her opinion clear on loads of things only to reverse ferret like an oiled mustelid.TheWhiteRabbit said:Maybe Ruth is the get-out, a sort of double act whereby Ruth campaigns at Westminster for a second referendum and May says not now.
Risky. But a line.
https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/8412971171634749460 -
Theresa and Phil drastically underestimated the vindictiveness and cunning of the Tory eurosceptic right - the likes of Redwood and Mogg couldn't give a fig about NI hikes, but they realized Phil wasn't a Brexit Ultra and leaped at the first opportunity to humiliate the man. Hammond is now a crumpled husk of a politician and will fall in step behind whatever plans they devise for the hardest of Brexits. Let that be a lesson.0
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Of courseCarlottaVance said:
It's being reported as: 'Now not the time' for independence voteAlistair said:
She's got to realise how this will be reported/tweeted though right?SeanT said:
TMay was hardly gonna stand up and say "NO you stupid Scots can't ever have a referendum, yah boo McSucks."Alistair said:
It hasn't actually been ruled though has it?TheScreamingEagles said:So will Mrs Sturgeon hold an unlawful referendum?
She will haver and hum, and keep saying Now is not quite the time, until Brexit is settled, for the good of all Brits, north and south, but Yes the Scots can then look at the alternatives in the clear light of a post-Brexit dawn, and when the Nats themselves have decided whether they want EU or EEA or EFTA, and are offering a clear choice.
That position could be held until late 2019 at the earliest, maybe the early 2020s.
Which coincides with Scottish opinion, doesn't it?......
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/8423598762947379200 -
Why should become excited by the prospects of a party for which I have no present intention of supporting and for which I have only voted once at a General Election since 1992?FrancisUrquhart said:
Anything sub 10% is enough to get Justin excited about Labour's chances in 2020.TheScreamingEagles said:
See my edit.FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't encourage Justin Short Straws...TheScreamingEagles said:The Tory lead of 13% becomes a lead of just 6% when all voters are included with Ipsos MORI
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3857/Satisfaction-with-Hammond-drops-as-does-economic-optimism.aspx0 -
That was such a quick edit - makes you seem rattledTheScreamingEagles said:
You're like a Trump supporter, I pointed out the facts, that her ratings had slide 4% but that she's still got a net positive rating.felix said:
Anybody would think that TSE was pushing his own rather silly agenda here ... and getting nowhere.CarlottaVance said:
IPSOS/Mori on the other hand say....Ratings of the party leaders show little change over the month, with the Prime Minister’s honeymoon showing no sign of ending.TheScreamingEagles said: 0 -
The budget:
When it comes to the public’s views of the Budget overall, 38% say it was good for the country, and 42% bad. This is better than their views of last March’s budget (30% good, 53% bad), and a lot better than the reaction to the 2012 “omnishambles” budget (33% good, 53% bad).....
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3857/Satisfaction-with-Hammond-drops-as-does-economic-optimism.aspx0 -
Le Pen was on France24 this morning saying that Farage had shown the French the way to leave the EU. Farage has changed Britain, is changing the Tory Party and might well change the EU. I really wish he hadn't but I can't deny that he has.Theuniondivvie said:
Lol.CarlottaVance said:
For all dear old Blighty's faults our nearest equivalents - the BNP, or whatever they are these days are nowhere and Farage wouldn't touch Le Pen with a barge pole....Cyclefree said:
Europeans should be asking themselves some hard questions not behaving like Panglossian fools.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/nigel-farage-meet-marine-le-pen-the-full-interview/
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If she was REALLY REALLY bold she'd table legislation to repeal the Scotland Act and end devolution. Say that Brexit was a 'material change in circumstances' and it was better to make Westminster sovereign again.Pulpstar said:If May was REALLY bold, she'd have just let the SNP get on with it.
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Maybe if you considered standing for the party you might have read the manifesto?isam said:@JosiasJessop
Oh and I don't know why you said "LOL" about me not reading the UKIP manifesto? I didn't read it! Why would I lie?!0 -
What 'alternative path'? The EU have made it clear that Scotland's not going to be allowed to stay in.GIN1138 said:0 -
Rattled? I'm the epitome of calmness.felix said:
That was such a quick edit - makes you seem rattledTheScreamingEagles said:
You're like a Trump supporter, I pointed out the facts, that her ratings had slide 4% but that she's still got a net positive rating.felix said:
Anybody would think that TSE was pushing his own rather silly agenda here ... and getting nowhere.CarlottaVance said:
IPSOS/Mori on the other hand say....Ratings of the party leaders show little change over the month, with the Prime Minister’s honeymoon showing no sign of ending.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Anyone on Yorkhill in the first ?0
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Mr. Gin, the terms of our departure from the EU will only be clear when negotiations have concluded...0
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Isn't it actually 2% - hence MOE?TheScreamingEagles said:
You're like a Trump supporter, I pointed out the facts, that her ratings had slide 4% but that she's still got a net positive rating.felix said:
Anybody would think that TSE was pushing his own rather silly agenda here ... and getting nowhere.CarlottaVance said:
IPSOS/Mori on the other hand say....Ratings of the party leaders show little change over the month, with the Prime Minister’s honeymoon showing no sign of ending.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Bookies immediately cut Un De Sceaux into 7-4 just because Yorkhill wins the first. Arf.0
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And there will be a fairly long period between that point and the exit agreement being ratified and coming into force.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Gin, the terms of our departure from the EU will only be clear when negotiations have concluded...
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#IfTheresaWereREALLYBold
She would've invaded Scotland with a sneak attack in the depths of winter.0 -
If May was REALLY REALLY REALLY bold she'd march up to Bannockburn at the head of an all English army and give the Scots a damn good thrashing, before executing the SNP and installing Gove as Governor.williamglenn said:
If she was REALLY REALLY bold she'd table legislation to repeal the Scotland Act and end devolution. Say that Brexit was a 'material change in circumstances' and it was better to make Westminster sovereign again.Pulpstar said:If May was REALLY bold, she'd have just let the SNP get on with it.
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The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.0
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It is a 4% fall overall, 2% is just the swing. So no, not MOE.CarlottaVance said:
Isn't it actually 2% - hence MOE?TheScreamingEagles said:
You're like a Trump supporter, I pointed out the facts, that her ratings had slide 4% but that she's still got a net positive rating.felix said:
Anybody would think that TSE was pushing his own rather silly agenda here ... and getting nowhere.CarlottaVance said:
IPSOS/Mori on the other hand say....Ratings of the party leaders show little change over the month, with the Prime Minister’s honeymoon showing no sign of ending.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It's EFTA!Slackbladder said:
What 'alternative path'? The EU have made it clear that Scotland's not going to be allowed to stay in.GIN1138 said:
It's the EEA0 -
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
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Get on and hold your own referendum NicolaSlackbladder said:
What 'alternative path'? The EU have made it clear that Scotland's not going to be allowed to stay in.GIN1138 said:
Report from the HOL that they would block referendum legislation at this time0 -
IPSOS Mori say 'essentially unchanged'.......TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a 4% fall overall, 2% is just the swing. So no, not MOE.CarlottaVance said:
Isn't it actually 2% - hence MOE?TheScreamingEagles said:
You're like a Trump supporter, I pointed out the facts, that her ratings had slide 4% but that she's still got a net positive rating.felix said:
Anybody would think that TSE was pushing his own rather silly agenda here ... and getting nowhere.CarlottaVance said:
IPSOS/Mori on the other hand say....Ratings of the party leaders show little change over the month, with the Prime Minister’s honeymoon showing no sign of ending.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/8423664830491238400 -
Though perhaps Juncker would then land an EU army at Pevensey while she was away and install Clegg as head of a puppet state! (Culloden would probably have been the better destination for May)Casino_Royale said:
If May was REALLY REALLY REALLY bold she'd march up to Bannockburn at the head of an all English army and give the Scots a damn good thrashing, before executing the SNP and installing Gove as Governor.williamglenn said:
If she was REALLY REALLY bold she'd table legislation to repeal the Scotland Act and end devolution. Say that Brexit was a 'material change in circumstances' and it was better to make Westminster sovereign again.Pulpstar said:If May was REALLY bold, she'd have just let the SNP get on with it.
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From the 2016 SNP manifesto:HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the
circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."0 -
Lol.HYUFD said:
Though perhaps Juncker would then land an EU army at Pevensey while she was away and install Clegg as head of a puppet state! (Culloden would probably have been the better destination for May)Casino_Royale said:
If May was REALLY REALLY REALLY bold she'd march up to Bannockburn at the head of an all English army and give the Scots a damn good thrashing, before executing the SNP and installing Gove as Governor.williamglenn said:
If she was REALLY REALLY bold she'd table legislation to repeal the Scotland Act and end devolution. Say that Brexit was a 'material change in circumstances' and it was better to make Westminster sovereign again.Pulpstar said:If May was REALLY bold, she'd have just let the SNP get on with it.
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Dragging the EU into it would be a double-edged sword. They might make all sorts of unhelpful comments about deficits and currencies.williamglenn said:
The minute Article 50 is declared, it will also be much easier for the Scottish government to drag the EU into the argument. From that point of view Nicola's timing is perfect.Pulpstar said:
Getting May to be seen to be blocking Sindy II is nigh on perfect for her.
Has to be remembered that for the EU, Scotland is pretty marginal. It'd add 1% to the Union's population. There might be some goodwill there - why wouldn't you be nice to someone who wants to join? - but the main game would still be Brussels-London.
In fact, the speed with which the SNP changed their EU policy in (indirect) response to a policy change in London demonstrates the whole fallacy behind the independence argument: small countries are never properly independent because they bounce around in the wake of the large ones. The whole 'equality and respect' agenda is a delusional chimera; you can never have equality between a countries of 5m and 60m people where the level of development is roughly the same. Even independent, Scotland's policies would still be hugely influenced by what was decided in London.0 -
Oh dear - twitter does make otherwise sensible folk seem so silly. too many tweets and all that ...GIN1138 said:0 -
That is their right but the legal process belongs to WestminsterAlastairMeeks said:
From the 2016 SNP manifesto:HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the
circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."0 -
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/8423664830491238400 -
And if she was REALLY REALLY REALLY bold she'd announce England was pulling out of the UK and Scotland could stay on in the EU as the remnant. When the Scots see how great it is outside the EU they could have a referendum and join England again.williamglenn said:
If she was REALLY REALLY bold she'd table legislation to repeal the Scotland Act and end devolution. Say that Brexit was a 'material change in circumstances' and it was better to make Westminster sovereign again.Pulpstar said:If May was REALLY bold, she'd have just let the SNP get on with it.
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Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
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ThanksCasino_Royale said:
Lol.HYUFD said:
Though perhaps Juncker would then land an EU army at Pevensey while she was away and install Clegg as head of a puppet state! (Culloden would probably have been the better destination for May)Casino_Royale said:
If May was REALLY REALLY REALLY bold she'd march up to Bannockburn at the head of an all English army and give the Scots a damn good thrashing, before executing the SNP and installing Gove as Governor.williamglenn said:
If she was REALLY REALLY bold she'd table legislation to repeal the Scotland Act and end devolution. Say that Brexit was a 'material change in circumstances' and it was better to make Westminster sovereign again.Pulpstar said:If May was REALLY bold, she'd have just let the SNP get on with it.
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He's a 'mess in a dress' today posting too quickly - missing words - grammar so bad you can tell what sort of school he didn't go to...:)CarlottaVance said:
Isn't it actually 2% - hence MOE?TheScreamingEagles said:
You're like a Trump supporter, I pointed out the facts, that her ratings had slide 4% but that she's still got a net positive rating.felix said:
Anybody would think that TSE was pushing his own rather silly agenda here ... and getting nowhere.CarlottaVance said:
IPSOS/Mori on the other hand say....Ratings of the party leaders show little change over the month, with the Prime Minister’s honeymoon showing no sign of ending.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
CarlottaVance said:
Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."0 -
Not to mention the inappropriate comma usage.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Yes and most polls still show Scots opposed to independence and supportive of May taking the UK out of the EU now the referendum has been completedAlastairMeeks said:
From the 2016 SNP manifesto:HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the
circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."0 -
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/8423727215226757120 -
But she's no longer proposing to "stay in"/rejoin the EU.....AlastairMeeks said:CarlottaVance said:
Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."0 -
This will just go back and forward for months as everyone switches off.williamglenn said:
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/842372721522675712
The second Scots referendum will not take place in Nicola's timetable. She needs to get back to her day job0 -
"Stop blocking the Scottish people from having their say" - David Mundell
Oops, sorry, that was 2013.
http://tinyurl.com/h8q7wto
Actually, Mundell may be a significant factor in Tory hesitation about a 2nd ref. Imagine having to depend on him as one of your big beasts?0 -
Can't get the staff these days.Nigelb said:
Not to mention the inappropriate comma usage.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I had decided not to stand long before the manifesto came outlogical_song said:
Maybe if you considered standing for the party you might have read the manifesto?isam said:@JosiasJessop
Oh and I don't know why you said "LOL" about me not reading the UKIP manifesto? I didn't read it! Why would I lie?!0 -
She's trying to salvage something from the wreckage. There's nothing in that wording which requires her to secure Scotland's re-entry into the EU (unsurprisingly, because it wouldn't be within an independent Scotland's powers to guarantee that).CarlottaVance said:
But she's no longer proposing to "stay in"/rejoin the EU.....AlastairMeeks said:CarlottaVance said:
Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
She has her mandate, however inconvenient that might be for the Westminster government.0 -
What do you say to the 93% Scots fishermen who want out and support Theresa May's stanceTheuniondivvie said:"Stop blocking the Scottish people from having their say" - David Mundell
Oops, sorry, that was 2013.
http://tinyurl.com/h8q7wto
Actually, Mundell may be a significant factor in Tory hesitation about a 2nd ref. Imagine having to depend on him as one of your big beasts?0 -
Mr. Divvie, you recall there was a referendum held a year after that?
Anyway, seeing as most of the day has been spent faffing about (my thanks to Mr. Sandpit for his assistance) I'm off for a bit. Play nicely, children.0 -
How about Mrs May encourages Ms Sturgeon to hold a full-electorate poll of opinion on the question so they will have a better guide than they already have?SeanT said:
No, she will say "No referendum right now but of course Scotland has the right to choose its destiny when we have finished Brexiting"Alistair said:
She's got to realise how this will be reported/tweeted though right? It's going to be wall to wall "May blocks referendum" and then a larification will have to be issued and then it will be wall to wall "May u-turns and approves Referenedum"SeanT said:
TMay was hardly gonna stand up and say "NO you stupid Scots can't ever have a referendum, yah boo McSucks."Alistair said:
It hasn't actually been ruled though has it?TheScreamingEagles said:So will Mrs Sturgeon hold an unlawful referendum?
She will haver and hum, and keep saying Now is not quite the time, until Brexit is settled, for the good of all Brits, north and south, but Yes the Scots can then look at the alternatives in the clear light of a post-Brexit dawn, and when the Nats themselves have decided whether they want EU or EEA or EFTA, and are offering a clear choice.
That position could be held until late 2019 at the earliest, maybe the early 2020s.
London and Edinburgh had to agree on the timing of indyref 1, this is no different.
Either way, it's just journalism at the moment. I doubt it will move votes very much. Views are entrenched after indyref1, and most Scots don't want a vote before Brexit. So, despite much huffing and puffing, I reckon everyone will breathe a quiet sigh of relief (probably including Sturgeon, who reportedly fears she is likely to lose as things stand).
We will Brexit. Then we will all think again. And now I must work.
Good afternoon, everyone.0 -
I'd say that they have a right for their views to be listened to and taken into account.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What do you say to the 93% Scots fishermen who want out and support Theresa May's stanceTheuniondivvie said:"Stop blocking the Scottish people from having their say" - David Mundell
Oops, sorry, that was 2013.
http://tinyurl.com/h8q7wto
Actually, Mundell may be a significant factor in Tory hesitation about a 2nd ref. Imagine having to depend on him as one of your big beasts?
Unlike yours.0 -
Their views are my views - they are my familyTheuniondivvie said:
I'd say that they have a right for their views to be listened to and taken into account.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What do you say to the 93% Scots fishermen who want out and support Theresa May's stanceTheuniondivvie said:"Stop blocking the Scottish people from having their say" - David Mundell
Oops, sorry, that was 2013.
http://tinyurl.com/h8q7wto
Actually, Mundell may be a significant factor in Tory hesitation about a 2nd ref. Imagine having to depend on him as one of your big beasts?
Unlike yours.0 -
We won't know the full "terms" until around two minutes past midnight, two years from whenever A50 is triggered.williamglenn said:
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/842372721522675712
These things always go down to and beyond the last minute.0 -
Which man date is that?AlastairMeeks said:
She's trying to salvage something from the wreckage. There's nothing in that wording which requires her to secure Scotland's re-entry into the EU (unsurprisingly, because it wouldn't be within an independent Scotland's powers to guarantee that).CarlottaVance said:
But she's no longer proposing to "stay in"/rejoin the EU.....AlastairMeeks said:CarlottaVance said:
Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
She has her mandate, however inconvenient that might be for the Westminster government.0 -
Probably end up staying in !GIN1138 said:
We won't know the full "terms" until around two minutes past midnight, two years from whenever A50 is triggered.williamglenn said:
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/842372721522675712
These things always go down to and beyond the last minute.0 -
And any transition period mutually agreedGIN1138 said:
We won't know the full "terms" until around two minutes past midnight, two years from whenever A50 is triggered.williamglenn said:
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/842372721522675712
These things always go down to and beyond the last minute.0 -
I know we've a few fans of Dave Rubin on here. His sit-down with David Horowitz is very interesting re the Left and why many liberal thinkers have abandoned it
Horowitz was a card carrying Marxist and Black Panther supporter
Part One
https://youtu.be/2gvCi86XuUw0 -
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Be interesting to see the next set of national polling figures. After a car crash week, if there's no dent in the Tory lead , or even only a few points, then they really are untouchable.0
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Down thread....Tory lead 13%, lead up by 2%. Mirroring other recent polling that still shows very large Tory leads with no obvious changes pre / post budget.Jason said:Be interesting to see the next set of national polling figures. After a car crash week, if there's no dent in the Tory lead , or even only a few points, then they really are untouchable.
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Had a very small bet on Tobefair. An intriguing horse, has had 7 wins on the trot !0
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For some on here it's still all about Brexit..........AlastairMeeks said:
She's trying to salvage something from the wreckage. There's nothing in that wording which requires her to secure Scotland's re-entry into the EU (unsurprisingly, because it wouldn't be within an independent Scotland's powers to guarantee that).CarlottaVance said:
But she's no longer proposing to "stay in"/rejoin the EU.....AlastairMeeks said:CarlottaVance said:
Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
She has her mandate, however inconvenient that might be for the Westminster government.0 -
Of course - what suits Sturgeon more than anything is the continuance of politics not as normal in Scotland. She will get her referendum in 2021 and between now and then everything in Scotland will be seen through that prism. Sturgeon now has a window to build a narrative, and while the EU climb-down may be embarrassing in the short term it actually leaves the SNP with a far more defendable position longer term. And none of it removes the essential and unavoidable fact: despite the collapse in the oil price and the undoubted economic hardship independence will deliver in the short and medium term, around 45% of Scots currently want it to happen. Nicola now has a window to work on the few more she needs to get over the line. With hard Brexit looming and the English set to give the Tories a big majority at the next general election, she will be confident.HYUFD said:
Yes and most polls still show Scots opposed to independence and supportive of May taking the UK out of the EU now the referendum has been completedAlastairMeeks said:
From the 2016 SNP manifesto:HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the
circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
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It has to be said it's remarkable the number of Leavers who are struggling with the plain English of the SNP's manifesto statement on the subject of a second independence referendum. Democratic principles go out of the window if might make Brexit more complicated.felix said:
For some on here it's still all about Brexit..........AlastairMeeks said:
She's trying to salvage something from the wreckage. There's nothing in that wording which requires her to secure Scotland's re-entry into the EU (unsurprisingly, because it wouldn't be within an independent Scotland's powers to guarantee that).CarlottaVance said:
But she's no longer proposing to "stay in"/rejoin the EU.....AlastairMeeks said:CarlottaVance said:
Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
She has her mandate, however inconvenient that might be for the Westminster government.0 -
'Ok David, we've decided you're just the right chap to break it to your fellow haggis munchers. It'll be fine, honest.'
https://twitter.com/BBCsarahsmith/status/8423763885942743040 -
The Dutch election result has been settled on Betfair.0
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Footsie at all time high - pound rising and Toyota announced 240 million pound investment in it's UK plants despite Brexit0
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I regret to say that the May administration that began with potential is now looking lamer as each week passes.
BREXIT is being handled with all the aplomb of a "Spreadsheet Phil" budget, that itself unraveled quicker than a Paul Nuttall CV and to cap a week of sparkling ineptitude this afternoon the Prime Minister hands the SNP an electoral golden hand.
How Mrs May must thank the gods that across the dispatch box she is faced with a LotO even more incompetent, and then some, than she has proven to be over these recent weeks.
I can't help feeling that David Cameron has been exercising his chuckle muscles recently and who could blame him.
As someone was wont to say :
"Things can only get better ..."
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I'm sure the Nats will be much heartened by this endorsement....
https://twitter.com/D_Blanchflower/status/8423792776602460160 -
The premium charge looms ever closer.AlastairMeeks said:The Dutch election result has been settled on Betfair.
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Yep - it looks to me like May is doing precisely what Sturgeon wants her to do. Four more years of politics not as normal north of the border. The terms of the next Scottish assembly election have already been framed - and in exactly the way that the SNP would hope. In fact, that will now become a de facto independence poll.JackW said:I regret to say that the May administration that began with potential is now looking lamer as each week passes.
BREXIT is being handled with all the aplomb of a "Spreadsheet Phil" budget, that itself unraveled quicker than a Paul Nuttall CV and to cap a week of sparkling ineptitude this afternoon the Prime Minister hands the SNP an electoral golden hand.
How Mrs May must thank the gods that across the dispatch box she is faced with a LotO even more incompetent, and then some, than she has proven to be over these recent weeks.
I can't help feeling that David Cameron has been exercising his chuckle muscles recently and who could blame him.
As someone was wont to say :
"Things can only get better ..."
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What with 5 million unemployed and all that...CarlottaVance said:I'm sure the Nats will be much heartened by this endorsement....
https://twitter.com/D_Blanchflower/status/8423792776602460160 -
Classic! Wasn’t Salmond a First Minister and party leader once upon a time, what happened?CarlottaVance said:The old ones are the best ones...
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/8423785084248719370 -
Why should she or the EU know the terms of Brexit when negotiations are still ongoing? Sturgeon is talking bollocks.williamglenn said:
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/8423727215226757120 -
Good afternoon all.FrancisUrquhart said:
I don't believe that is the first time a member has voted that way.felix said:On a technical note - bank rate unchanged but one member voted for a rise - maybe a straw in the wind but it pushed the £ up more than half a cent against the $ and the € in minutes.
It's actually only the first time since mid-2016, so hardly an epochal event.0 -
What a plonker.CarlottaVance said:I'm sure the Nats will be much heartened by this endorsement....
https://twitter.com/D_Blanchflower/status/842379277660246016
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In 2021 after UK election in 2020. The debate will have driven everyone crackers by thenSouthamObserver said:
Yep - it looks to me like May is doing precisely what Sturgeon wants her to do. Four more years of politics not as normal north of the border. The terms of the next Scottish assembly election have already been framed - and in exactly the way that the SNP would hope. In fact, that will now become a de facto independence poll.JackW said:I regret to say that the May administration that began with potential is now looking lamer as each week passes.
BREXIT is being handled with all the aplomb of a "Spreadsheet Phil" budget, that itself unraveled quicker than a Paul Nuttall CV and to cap a week of sparkling ineptitude this afternoon the Prime Minister hands the SNP an electoral golden hand.
How Mrs May must thank the gods that across the dispatch box she is faced with a LotO even more incompetent, and then some, than she has proven to be over these recent weeks.
I can't help feeling that David Cameron has been exercising his chuckle muscles recently and who could blame him.
As someone was wont to say :
"Things can only get better ..."0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpYgpF1bqQBig_G_NorthWales said:
Their views are my views - they are my familyTheuniondivvie said:
I'd say that they have a right for their views to be listened to and taken into account.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What do you say to the 93% Scots fishermen who want out and support Theresa May's stanceTheuniondivvie said:"Stop blocking the Scottish people from having their say" - David Mundell
Oops, sorry, that was 2013.
http://tinyurl.com/h8q7wto
Actually, Mundell may be a significant factor in Tory hesitation about a 2nd ref. Imagine having to depend on him as one of your big beasts?
Unlike yours.
RIP Sister Sledge.0 -
I was thinking after the election expenses story and Hammond's U-turn. They've only really hit the fan the last couple of days. Can't believe there won't be some damage, even just short term. If there are convictions, that will change everything.FrancisUrquhart said:
Down thread....Tory lead 13%, lead up by 2%. Mirroring other recent polling that still shows very large Tory leads with no obvious changes pre / post budget.Jason said:Be interesting to see the next set of national polling figures. After a car crash week, if there's no dent in the Tory lead , or even only a few points, then they really are untouchable.
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ImpressedDavid_Evershed said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpYgpF1bqQBig_G_NorthWales said:
Their views are my views - they are my familyTheuniondivvie said:
I'd say that they have a right for their views to be listened to and taken into account.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What do you say to the 93% Scots fishermen who want out and support Theresa May's stanceTheuniondivvie said:"Stop blocking the Scottish people from having their say" - David Mundell
Oops, sorry, that was 2013.
http://tinyurl.com/h8q7wto
Actually, Mundell may be a significant factor in Tory hesitation about a 2nd ref. Imagine having to depend on him as one of your big beasts?
Unlike yours.
RIP Sister Sledge.0 -
Can someone explain the premium charge in language an idiot can understand? I tried reading up on it the other day and it made my head hurt.Pulpstar said:
The premium charge looms ever closer.AlastairMeeks said:The Dutch election result has been settled on Betfair.
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If the NIC thing was going to hit the polls it would have post-budget. The election expenses fines, I doubt it, they will be lost in the noise of SIndy, France shooting, kid walking in on her dad giving an interview to BBC...if there are criminal trials thats a different kettle of fish...Jason said:
I was thinking after the election expenses story and Hamond's U-turn. They've only really hit the fan the last couple of days. Can't believe there won't be some damage, even just short term. If there are convictions, that will change everything.FrancisUrquhart said:
Down thread....Tory lead 13%, lead up by 2%. Mirroring other recent polling that still shows very large Tory leads with no obvious changes pre / post budget.Jason said:Be interesting to see the next set of national polling figures. After a car crash week, if there's no dent in the Tory lead , or even only a few points, then they really are untouchable.
The government is dead lucky that Corbyn Labour party is so bad. As I said at the time, with the NI changes, 1% more NI vs Labour's 50p tax rate + a 20% wealth tax, most people are going to shrug go, mutter about lying politicians breaking manifesto promises and go for the 1% more in NI.
It wasn't the public polling that caused the U-Turn, it was the government's own MPs and possibility they could rebel in a separate bill.0 -
That's the point. If negotiations are still ongoing, it means the timetable will have to be extended.Richard_Tyndall said:
Why should she or the EU know the terms of Brexit when negotiations are still ongoing? Sturgeon is talking bollocks.williamglenn said:
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/8423727215226757120 -
She's not telling "Scotland" anything.CarlottaVance said:The old ones are the best ones...
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/842378508424871937
She's telling the SNP that they had their referendum not 30 months ago, the UK is about to enter a difficult period of negotiation with the EU, and that Nicola and friends should spend a few years doing the day job of using the powers they have to make a better Scotland.0 -
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RUE THE DAY.SimonStClare said:
Classic! Wasn’t Salmond a First Minister and party leader once upon a time, what happened?CarlottaVance said:The old ones are the best ones...
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/842378508424871937
A PB Classic is trotted out.0 -
And transistion agreement is possible extending the time to x.williamglenn said:
That's the point. If negotiations are still ongoing, it means the timetable will have to be extended.Richard_Tyndall said:
Why should she or the EU know the terms of Brexit when negotiations are still ongoing? Sturgeon is talking bollocks.williamglenn said:
As I was saying:williamglenn said:
And when will that be? Theresa May's timetable exactly fits Sturgeon's proposed dates. If those dates are unrealistic, it means the negotiations themselves are unrealistic.SimonStClare said:
I’ve no idea what game Sturgeon is playing at, the terms of Brexit will not be known until the EU negotiations are completed, Sturgeon must know this.GIN1138 said:Nicola's view:
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365797259456512
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842365995704549376
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366199212191744
ttps://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/842366483049123840
https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/8423727215226757120 -
I'm a Leaver. I wish the SNP would declare UDI and get it over with. Let the Scots fight it out amongst themselves after that. It is, as we are told so many times, nothing to do with us.AlastairMeeks said:
It has to be said it's remarkable the number of Leavers who are struggling with the plain English of the SNP's manifesto statement on the subject of a second independence referendum. Democratic principles go out of the window if might make Brexit more complicated.felix said:
For some on here it's still all about Brexit..........AlastairMeeks said:
She's trying to salvage something from the wreckage. There's nothing in that wording which requires her to secure Scotland's re-entry into the EU (unsurprisingly, because it wouldn't be within an independent Scotland's powers to guarantee that).CarlottaVance said:
But she's no longer proposing to "stay in"/rejoin the EU.....AlastairMeeks said:CarlottaVance said:
Where's the 'clear and sustained evidence'?AlastairMeeks said:
clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people "HYUFD said:
Not while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing she doesn't, as every Scottish poll showsAlastairMeeks said:The most difficult point for Theresa May is that Nicola Sturgeon clearly does have a mandate for what she's asking for. In a week when the Westminster government has had to backtrack from breaking a manifesto commitment, the juxtaposition is at the very least unfortunate.
"or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."
She has her mandate, however inconvenient that might be for the Westminster government.
0
