politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May’s big speech – a round up of reaction

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.

ReggieCide said:

FF43 said:

ReggieCide said:

FF43 said:

TGOHF said:

YellowSubmarine said:

A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.

It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.

Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.

a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?

Not necessarily more so than individual countries.

a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.

You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.

Pauly said:

tyson said:

CornishBlue said:

tyson said:

The left will fight back and win because ultimately fairness, equality and human rights are part of human evolution.

Deary me. It's exactly this sort of tripe which people are thankfully starting to see through.

The Left doesn't own these things.

And the Left should not think that it alone can define what those things actually mean.

Give me one example of how right wing ideological governments have achieved progressive change for the masses, the poor and minorities?

Thatcher's monetarism has brought inflation under control.
Lifting the price controls so the government no longer sets the price of bread.
Allowing competition on broadcast TV, while many on the left thought ITV & the BBC couldn't be improved - they got complacent.
Raising the personal allowance so those on low wages don't pay income tax.

Enabling my Mum to buy her council house. Letting a poor kid like me get access to a grammar school education. Deregulating the mortgage market so I could get a loan. Lowering taxes so I could afford one extra kid.

AlastairMeeks said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.

During the campaign itself I think it was clear that leave meant leaving the single market, at least from the leave campaigners?

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.

During the campaign itself I think it was clear that leave meant leaving the single market, at least from the leave campaigners?

Perhaps you should read what I'd written rather than what you wish I'd written?

Mortimer said:

Gardenwalker said:

YellowSubmarine said:

John_M said:

While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.

I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.

I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.

My original prediction, which I guess I now recant, is that May would announce a hard as fuck Brexit and then call an election (this spring).

This would give her a big enough majority to pivot toward a softer Brexit during the Euro-fudge stage.

I recant because she just seems a bit frit.

Which is a shame because she and we are being held hostage by the Brextard gang, cheered on by the slavering proto-fascists in the Mail, and enabled by the equivocating self-hatred of the Corbynistas.

Charming.

I remember the old days, when 'vapid bilge' was the strongest sentiment ever expressed!

Your memory, as usual, is defective.

AlastairMeeks said:

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.

During the campaign itself I think it was clear that leave meant leaving the single market, at least from the leave campaigners?

Perhaps you should read what I'd written rather than what you wish I'd written?

Where's the fun in that!

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market

And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.

I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws

AlastairMeeks said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.

As it's fresh in my memory from reading 'All Out War' yesterday, Cummings was desperate that Vote Leave didn't discuss trade models, then Gove blew it on May 8th by saying we'd be coming out of the SM. Osborne was all over the papers the following day monstering him for it.

I think the issue is that there was so much blether and lying, it all got lost in the overall brouhaha. As we've seen since, politicians keep talking about 'access to the single market', which (to me, at least) is gibberish. It's a club. You're either a member or not.

Off topic - my wife has just come in to me raging against the BBC. Apparently they have put some minor cup replay on and cancelled the second and concluding part of silent witness. Lots of anger according to the social media

John_M said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.

As it's fresh in my memory from reading 'All Out War' yesterday, Cummings was desperate that Vote Leave didn't discuss trade models, then Gove blew it on May 8th by saying we'd be coming out of the SM. Osborne was all over the papers the following day monstering him for it.

I think the issue is that there was so much blether and lying, it all got lost in the overall brouhaha. As we've seen since, politicians keep talking about 'access to the single market', which (to me, at least) is gibberish. It's a club. You're either a member or not.

The retreat from international cooperation has not yet been completed. Newspaper nationalism has some way to go yet.

tyson said:

Can I just ask....is there anyone out there who feels a modicum of sympathy for migrants, thinks Pope Francis is a good man, understands that Putin is not particularly good.....and still stands for Brexit and Trump...I'd love to know how you reconcile the two.....

Refugees absolutely. Migrants less so - it's a transactional relationship.

Pope Francis is clearly a good man. Putin is equally clearly not.

Brexit is a blow for freedom and the greater good. Trump, I can understand when if I wish the Republicans (or the Democrats) had come up with better candidates.

I don't know where leaves me on your despise-o-meter

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market

And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.

I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws

We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.

The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.

FF43 said:

ReggieCide said:

FF43 said:

ReggieCide said:

FF43 said:

TGOHF said:

YellowSubmarine said:

A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.

It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.

Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.

a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?

Not necessarily more so than individual countries.

a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.

You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.

You raised India and China. I would personally have set the bar much higher

Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success

Tykejohnno said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market

And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.

I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws

We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.

No country is sovereign if it doesn't control it's borders.

Schengen?

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market

And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.

I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws

We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.

The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.

Regulations that we signed up to.
What makes you think we will replace them with less idiotic regulations?

We had no choice to agree to them - now we can make our own laws

Gardenwalker said:

Tykejohnno said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market

And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.

I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws

We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.

No country is sovereign if it doesn't control it's borders.

Schengen?

If you count that as country,thank god we are out.

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

glw said:

Blue_rog said:

glw said:

Mortimer said:

It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.

It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.

The snowflakes

I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.

Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D

Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind

Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.

Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.

Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market

And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.

I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws

We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.

The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.

Regulations that we signed up to.
What makes you think we will replace them with less idiotic regulations?

Can I introduce you to the Dangerous Dogs Act and Cones Hotline!?

Like the Japanese infantrymen abandoned forlorn in the jungle for years after VJ Day, so some souls here keep fighting the referendum as if the campaign continues. Bless.

tyson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success

And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?

Same could be said about you and the EU.

https://twitter.com/charlie_savage/status/821466204179144704

tyson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success

And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?

My wife has just seen this reply and is horrified that anyone could troll like you do

Tykejohnno said:

tyson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success

And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?

Same could be said about you and the EU.

Figuratively I am more than happy with you putting me in said position...it';s exactly where I want to be.....

tyson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success

And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?

I imagine you're getting rather hot under the collar, when writing that.

Leave Mr G alone. We all know his true feelings about the EU were expressed in the privacy of the ballot box on June 23rd.

FF43 said:

ReggieCide said:

You seem to have accepted the point that the Internal Market is protectionist. We shall see whether we are able to negotiate better trade deals outside the Internal Market than the IM is able to (looking good at present) but I do agree that that will have to be set against how much the Internal Market's protectionism costs us.

Nope, I never accepted that the Single Market is protectionist to the members of it. You're being disingenuous. It's not even particularly protectionist to others.

The EU has the best set of FTAs of anyone, which they have built up over many years. I can say with absolute certainty we are not going replicate them in short order. It is highly unlikely we will improve on them at any time, for three very particular reasons:

1. We will be dealing with the same protectionist countries the EU has already negotiated with. The EU has the deals that are worth having.

2. The EU has more commercial clout than we do. It counts.

3. The trend is going away from globalisation and free trade. FTAs were easier to reach when the EU t was doing them.

The government rhetoric around trade deals is simply political cover to maintain the pretence that Brexit is Britain is opening to the world, when it is actually a disconnection.

Great summary.

Although you missed the wonderful opportunity we now have to be humped by Trump.

My chicken is getting all chlorine soaked just thinking about it.

SeanT said:

If anyone's in need of diversion, I just had one of the most decadent days of my life.

SeanT said:

If anyone's in need of diversion, I just had one of the most decadent days of my life.

No really...it just makes me sad thinking that some pathetic narcissist like yourself would like to brag openly about what you got up to....

FF43 said:

The government rhetoric around trade deals is simply political cover to maintain the pretence that Brexit is Britain is opening to the world, when it is actually a disconnection.

It's odd that the 'global Britain' guff, while being quickly dropped by the Leave campaign because it didn't resonate (and frankly wasn't true), is proving to be the most resistant to the application of logic now that we are 7 months into the process.

Part 2 in an occasional series of Viewcode's currency peregrinations. This week's episode: USD accounts. Basically it's Rogue One and I'm wondering what the heavy breathing in the corridor is...

On Sunday I moved £3900[2] into USD. Unfortunately that wasn't *quite* at the bottom of the market...but it wasn't far off. Contrary to what people are thinking GBP started to move up at 9:30am today when the inflation figures came out: they were higher than expected and people are now anticipating an interest rate rise. That accounted for the first 2-3cents, with May's speech accounting for the rest (or slowing it down: salt to taste). It closed at a smidgen under £1.24 and I have lost approx £200. Oh bollocks,

Now here's where it gets interesting. Normally I'd close the position, stay in for a couple of weekends and write it off. But (as some of you know) I work away from home and cannot log in remotely during the week. So I'm going to have to ride it out 'til Friday. Problem is, there's the upcoming stats release timetable this week[1], and it looks...uh-oh

Weds is employment stats and earnings, and I don't see those being bad for GBP. But thay's not the end of it. Thursday is the BOE interest rate decision, and if it's up the shit will hit the fan. Friday should bring some relief as traders realise profits and the week unwinds slightly, but - GODDAMMIT - Friday is the Trump inauguration.

So this week may consist of me clenching an increasingly squitty bottom. I shall do a little sign: "WILL DO STATS FOR FOOD". Has anybody got a dog on a string?

Notes
[1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/calendar#
[2] I was also thinking of emptying an ISA. Thankfully I didn't...

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

Great news about Chelsea Manning's sentence. Question for the legal peeps on here. She is not due to be released until May. Can an incoming president rescind the commutation? I hope not, but could it happen?

Isn't Trump a wikileaks fan these days?

Sean_F said:

tyson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success

And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?

I imagine you're getting rather hot under the collar, when writing that.

I think it (my post) was probably more merited for the prize of the worst sex award.....but if it gets your rocks off Sean,. I hope you haver some tissues handy....

There again. some really pathetic poster, maybe aged around 50 plus,. who likes to brag about shagging young girls could possibly pop up and spoil my night....

https://twitter.com/cjterry/status/821476563808030721

SeanT said:

If anyone's in need of diversion, I just had one of the most decadent days of my life.

You buggered a dead horse?

SeanT said:

tyson said:

SeanT said:

If anyone's in need of diversion, I just had one of the most decadent days of my life.

SeanT said:

If anyone's in need of diversion, I just had one of the most decadent days of my life.

No really...it just makes me sad thinking that some pathetic narcissist like yourself would like to brag openly about what you got up to....

Awww. If it helps, she was 23 and a total Corbynite, indeed she thinks he's "a bit of a fox".

So you should be pleased. The youngsters are still on the Left. I know this, because I talk to them before I fuck them.

Do you ever wonder who is really being used?

SeanT said:

tyson said:

SeanT said:

If anyone's in need of diversion, I just had one of the most decadent days of my life.

SeanT said:

If anyone's in need of diversion, I just had one of the most decadent days of my life.

No really...it just makes me sad thinking that some pathetic narcissist like yourself would like to brag openly about what you got up to....

Awww. If it helps, she was 23 and a total Corbynite, indeed she thinks he's "a bit of a fox".

So you should be pleased. The youngsters are still on the Left. I know this, because I talk to them before I fuck them.

Erghhhhh...you sad pathetic, vile creature....I hope you paid her enough....

O/T

Notwithstanding the supposed early visit by Mrs May to Washington DC to meet the new President, "England" (NB not the UK) appears decent value at 16/1 in Paddy Power's "Trump's First Overseas Visit" market, compared with the other main contenders. Current prices are as follows:

Russia (Ha ha!) ...... 4/6
Canada ................. 5/1
Mexico ................. 5/1
China ................... 7/1
Israel .................... 8/1
England .............. 16/1
France ................ 22/1
Germany ............ 33/1
etc., etc.

It will surely be a country deemed especially friendly towards the U.S. and if not Canada (which should logically be the favourite at somewhere around evens and therefore offering good value also), then good old Blighty England should surely feature large.
As ever, DYOR.

Gardenwalker said:

ReggieCide said:

FF43 said:

ReggieCide said:

FF43 said:

ReggieCide said:

FF43 said:

TGOHF said:

YellowSubmarine said:

A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.

It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.

Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.

a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?

Not necessarily more so than individual countries.

a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.

You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.

You raised India and China. I would personally have set the bar much higher

The key point is that the EU is a trading bloc and like any bloc has rules to protect the interests of those inside the bloc.

If that's protectionist, then every country on earth is protectionist.

Like all Brexitard criticisms, they only make sense in the absence of any comparators.

I disagree. Countries become protectionist when they set up tariff barriers. The Internal Market is a single entity, to all intents and purposes in a trade context, a country with external tariff barriers. If it is genuinely a motivated free trader, what possible motivation could it have to refuse to continue free trade with the UK when we leave the Internal Market. To do otherwise (as you think it will) would mark it as a protectionist amongst protectionists, imposing new tariff barriers where there were previously none.

Clearly all this talk of May's harder brexit has been giving SeanT the horn!

rcs1000 said:

I think it was a good speech, and excellent positioning from Mrs May. That it was so well taken by the Europeans tells me she got the tone right, but she also respected the referendum well. I think she has positioned herself at the Hardest Brexit level, and has room to inch inwards, which is clearly the right way to go, while also indicating she's prepared to go full WTO (although it's not the preferred option).

There's hard work to come, and I'm not confident that Fox is the right person to forge relationships with people other than lobbyists. But it was a good speech by May. She may turn out to be better than I'd feared.

At the political level I agree a good speech. Its purpose was to shut down debate and challenge by making her Hard Brexit approach appear inevitable. I think it will work at that level. The other side of the coin is that she seems to have abandoned any serious attempts at negotiation. That may be a reflection of Britain's weak hand. We do have some cards to play, but it seems May won't play them.

If I were May, I'd be working out how to identify and influence no fewer than 376 members of the European Parliament during the negotiations likely to be most sympathetic to the UK. Not just rely on Verhofstadt.

They are the wildcard.

As an aside, I wonder if anyone would like a bet with me:

I would like to bet that in 2022 (i.e. five years from now), the UK will not have Free Trade Agreements with countries with more people than they would have had in the EU.

Anyone want to bet fifty quid with me?

peter_from_putney said:

O/T

Notwithstanding the supposed early visit by Mrs May to Washington DC to meet the new President, "England" (NB not the UK) appears decent value at 16/1 in Paddy Power's "Trump's First Overseas Visit" market, compared with the other main contenders. Current prices are as follows:

Russia (Ha ha!) ...... 4/6
Canada ................. 5/1
Mexico ................. 5/1
China ................... 7/1
Israel .................... 8/1
England .............. 16/1
France ................ 22/1
Germany ............ 33/1
etc., etc.

It will surely be a country deemed especially friendly towards the U.S. and if not Canada (which should logically be the favourite at somewhere around evens and therefore offering good value also), then good old Blighty England should surely feature large.
As ever, DYOR.

I've seen press briefing that Trump visiting the UK ( Inc the Queen at Windsor ) is booked for March. The fact May's Vogue cover is the April edition ( goes on sale in March ) suggests it's coordinated with the visit and A50 invocation that month. Though DYOR.

The other possible fly in the ointment is Trump's Scottish Ancestry and Golf Course in Scotland. Even if the UK was his first overseas visit he'd screw the PP bet if he landed in Scotland not England first. Though are any of the Scottish Airports big enough for Airforce One ?

tyson said:

steve_garner said:

I don't know if PB has an award for most vulgar and unpleasant posts but if so Tyson's revolting efforts tonight must be candidates. Quite how he thinks they advance his argument is beyond me. Too much grappa tonight?

Thanks...I was actually quite pleased with the imagery......

I've become quite a convert to Caravaggio this last year, but cannot quite draw as well as him.....

I don't think that you got the imagery quite right. May's arse is surely rather scrawny like the rest of her, rather than plump and voluptuous.

I normally have not got a good word about May, but it seems that she has come round to my argument (albeit slowly), having been a Remainer she is now a hard Brexiteer. The only sensible option is a clean and hard Brexit, with a trade deal to follow after some time on WTO terms.

SeanT said:

I fear I may be turning into a cut price version of Gabriele D'Annunzio

Heck, there are worse fates.

The SeanT seduction technique is finally revealed.

'testimony reveals that women found him unprepossessing, almost repulsively gnomelike at first — until he began to speak in his enchantingly “soft, supple, velvety” voice.'

Casino_Royale said:

If I were May, I'd be working out how to identify and influence no fewer than 376 members of the European Parliament during the negotiations likely to be most sympathetic to the UK. Not just rely on Verhofstadt.

They are the wildcard.

Hopefully MI6 have already done this.

MTimT said:

rcs1000 said:

But it was a good speech by May. She may turn out to be better than I'd feared.

My thinking precisely. By taking the Single Market off the table, she has removed much of the EU ammo. Now the only real thing left to discuss is a sensible relationship moving forward.

It's still an unknown how this translates into a formal negotiating position. She's trying to take the single market in name off the table, but in practice she seems to expect EFTA like terms in a bespoke deal minus freedom of movement. That will be tough.

Theuniondivvie said:

SeanT said:

I fear I may be turning into a cut price version of Gabriele D'Annunzio

Heck, there are worse fates.

The SeanT seduction technique is finally revealed.

'testimony reveals that women found him unprepossessing, almost repulsively gnomelike at first — until he began to speak in his enchantingly “soft, supple, velvety” voice.'

SeanT gave me some dating advice the other night, it worked.

rcs1000 said:

As an aside, I wonder if anyone would like a bet with me:

I would like to bet that in 2022 (i.e. five years from now), the UK will not have Free Trade Agreements with countries with more people than they would have had in the EU.

Anyone want to bet fifty quid with me?

No. That seems a quite likely outcome. Low odds for a long term bet.