It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?
Not necessarily more so than individual countries.
a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.
You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
Oh my goodness, we're back to war, pestilence and famine. All after one speech from the PM
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
I watched that. And I've been reading A Bridge Too Far (Cornelius Ryan), a fantastic book which I'd recommend to everyone. WW2 does put EVERYTHING into perspective. I certainly count my lucky stars every day.
I wonder what that British soldier who, out of ammunition, charged a Panzer tank with just an umbrella in Arnhem, would make of the histrionics. Those guys were unbelievably, UNBELIEVABLY bloody brave. I feel humbled reading it.
Digby Tatham-Warter. His 2nd in Command was Captain Tony Frank who left the Commandos to join the Paras because he wanted to see more action. I worked for many years with his son and have read his private memoirs. Captured then escaped from hospital at Arnhem. Amazing men.
Wow! Great knowledge! And WOW for knowing him. Amazing men indeed.
The left will fight back and win because ultimately fairness, equality and human rights are part of human evolution.
Deary me. It's exactly this sort of tripe which people are thankfully starting to see through.
The Left doesn't own these things.
And the Left should not think that it alone can define what those things actually mean.
Give me one example of how right wing ideological governments have achieved progressive change for the masses, the poor and minorities?
Thatcher's monetarism has brought inflation under control. Lifting the price controls so the government no longer sets the price of bread. Allowing competition on broadcast TV, while many on the left thought ITV & the BBC couldn't be improved - they got complacent. Raising the personal allowance so those on low wages don't pay income tax.
Enabling my Mum to buy her council house. Letting a poor kid like me get access to a grammar school education. Deregulating the mortgage market so I could get a loan. Lowering taxes so I could afford one extra kid.
Did they actually ask if men felt more entitled to treat women as sexual objects? That graphic asks if men think women feel objectified, and I couldn't see any mention of it in the article.
The Reuters article was reporting what women felt. I.e. that they felt they were more likely to be treated like a sex object.
This is the first statement from the Reuters link:
Roughly two in five U.S. women think that women are more likely to feel unsafe and men more likely to feel entitled to treat women as sexual objects since Trump was voted into office on Nov. 8,
If you think that they should have asked men 'do you feel more entitled to treat women as sex objects?' Then that's another discussion.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.
During the campaign itself I think it was clear that leave meant leaving the single market, at least from the leave campaigners?
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.
During the campaign itself I think it was clear that leave meant leaving the single market, at least from the leave campaigners?
Perhaps you should read what I'd written rather than what you wish I'd written?
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.
My original prediction, which I guess I now recant, is that May would announce a hard as fuck Brexit and then call an election (this spring).
This would give her a big enough majority to pivot toward a softer Brexit during the Euro-fudge stage.
I recant because she just seems a bit frit.
Which is a shame because she and we are being held hostage by the Brextard gang, cheered on by the slavering proto-fascists in the Mail, and enabled by the equivocating self-hatred of the Corbynistas.
Charming.
I remember the old days, when 'vapid bilge' was the strongest sentiment ever expressed!
Did they actually ask if men felt more entitled to treat women as sexual objects? That graphic asks if men think women feel objectified, and I couldn't see any mention of it in the article.
The Reuters article was reporting what women felt. I.e. that they felt they were more likely to be treated like a sex object.
This is the first statement from the Reuters link:
Roughly two in five U.S. women think that women are more likely to feel unsafe and men more likely to feel entitled to treat women as sexual objects since Trump was voted into office on Nov. 8,
If you think that they should have asked men 'do you feel more entitled to treat women as sex objects?' Then that's another discussion.
Ah, gotcha! My ability to parse sentences clearly needs some work
It would be interesting to compare what people perceive to be the case with reality, although things like these are hard to study.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.
During the campaign itself I think it was clear that leave meant leaving the single market, at least from the leave campaigners?
Perhaps you should read what I'd written rather than what you wish I'd written?
@Gardenwalker I agree with your analysis of the dynamic. The referendum was the last national election result. She has a small majority in the Commons and no psychological or actual mandate from either her party members or the voters. It's no surprise she's been dragged toward the extremes of her parliamentary party. So while a much bigger majority might seem to augur a more extreme outcome I'm not so sure. She'd have her own mandate and a big enough majority to let some ultras rebel. But crucial a General Election campaign would discuss everything. It would reset conventional policy debate. She'd have to address pledges and reassurances to voters not her backbenches.
I'm entirely conflicted about it personally. Part of me aches for a 1983 style landslide in May for accelerationist purposes. Another part aches to see her get bogged down in years of A50 negotiations with a tiny majority. Which I think would be best for the country depends on my blood sugar.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.
As it's fresh in my memory from reading 'All Out War' yesterday, Cummings was desperate that Vote Leave didn't discuss trade models, then Gove blew it on May 8th by saying we'd be coming out of the SM. Osborne was all over the papers the following day monstering him for it.
I think the issue is that there was so much blether and lying, it all got lost in the overall brouhaha. As we've seen since, politicians keep talking about 'access to the single market', which (to me, at least) is gibberish. It's a club. You're either a member or not.
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
Your tongue reaches so far up the rectum of Theresa May.. I think similarly Plato's would like to dig under Trump's prostate unaided....
Tyson to be fair BigG supports all conservative leaders in power.He was very complimentary about Cameron before the referendum.He seems a dedicated Conservative cheer leader every party needs them.
What about being critical?......I am a lefty Labour Party member who has found fundamental problems with....Corbyn (obviously); Ed Miliband (bellend), Brown (weirdo); Blair (started off well but became deranged); Kinnock (Welsh Windbag); Foot (obviously); Callaghan...now you're talking I Like Sunny Jim and Wilson, but Jeez I have to go back a long way....
Tyson yes I prefer critical.I would totally agree with your assessment of previous labour leaders and the current one.I did like John Smith he could be really witty in the house of commons.
The worst Tory leader in my lifetime was probably IDS but overall their leaders have tended to be more middle of the road because the party is more pragmatic than dogmatic and thus wins more elections. Ask Tony Blair if you don't believe me.
Off topic - my wife has just come in to me raging against the BBC. Apparently they have put some minor cup replay on and cancelled the second and concluding part of silent witness. Lots of anger according to the social media
Summer Zervos, former Apprentice contestant, has sued Donald Trump for defamation. She is one of at least 14 women who have accused him of sexually assaulting them, all of whom he has publicly denounced as "liars" and "sick".
According to her lawyer, Gloria Allred, Ms Zervos has taken a lie-detector test about her testimony and has passed it.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
In a year we've gone from Leavers angrily arguing that Leave would not mean leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was Project Fear to Leavers angrily arguing that Leave inevitably meant leaving the single market and that any suggestion to the contrary was a wicked lie. Britain has not finished its retreat from the world just yet.
As it's fresh in my memory from reading 'All Out War' yesterday, Cummings was desperate that Vote Leave didn't discuss trade models, then Gove blew it on May 8th by saying we'd be coming out of the SM. Osborne was all over the papers the following day monstering him for it.
I think the issue is that there was so much blether and lying, it all got lost in the overall brouhaha. As we've seen since, politicians keep talking about 'access to the single market', which (to me, at least) is gibberish. It's a club. You're either a member or not.
The retreat from international cooperation has not yet been completed. Newspaper nationalism has some way to go yet.
Can I just ask....is there anyone out there who feels a modicum of sympathy for migrants, thinks Pope Francis is a good man, understands that Putin is not particularly good.....and still stands for Brexit and Trump...I'd love to know how you reconcile the two.....
Refugees absolutely. Migrants less so - it's a transactional relationship.
Pope Francis is clearly a good man. Putin is equally clearly not.
Brexit is a blow for freedom and the greater good. Trump, I can understand when if I wish the Republicans (or the Democrats) had come up with better candidates.
I don't know where leaves me on your despise-o-meter
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.
My original prediction, which I guess I now recant, is that May would announce a hard as fuck Brexit and then call an election (this spring).
This would give her a big enough majority to pivot toward a softer Brexit during the Euro-fudge stage.
I recant because she just seems a bit frit.
Which is a shame because she and we are being held hostage by the Brextard gang, cheered on by the slavering proto-fascists in the Mail, and enabled by the equivocating self-hatred of the Corbynistas.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
The EU regularly puts up protectionist barriers against places like China and India. They are indeed very protectionist.
The EU is FAR less protectionist than China and India*. Do you want to take up the challenge of naming countries and trading blocs that are significantly less protectionist than the EU (excepting agriculture and for reference EFTA countries are even more protectionist on agriculture)?
*Edit
Never mind the degree, if it's protectionist (which it is by your definition) then it isn't free trade. It's not called the Single Market, it's called the Internal Market.
But degree does matter in terms of our prosperity and our jobs when we go from a world where we face LESS protectionism overall to one where face MORE.
You seem to have accepted the point that the Internal Market is protectionist. We shall see whether we are able to negotiate better trade deals outside the Internal Market than the IM is able to (looking good at present) but I do agree that that will have to be set against how much the Internal Market's protectionism costs us.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.
@Gardenwalker I agree with your analysis of the dynamic. The referendum was the last national election result. She has a small majority in the Commons and no psychological or actual mandate from either her party members or the voters. It's no surprise she's been dragged toward the extremes of her parliamentary party. So while a much bigger majority might seem to augur a more extreme outcome I'm not so sure. She'd have her own mandate and a big enough majority to let some ultras rebel. But crucial a General Election campaign would discuss everything. It would reset conventional policy debate. She'd have to address pledges and reassurances to voters not her backbenches.
I'm entirely conflicted about it personally. Part of me aches for a 1983 style landslide in May for accelerationist purposes. Another part aches to see her get bogged down in years of A50 negotiations with a tiny majority. Which I think would be best for the country depends on my blood sugar.
May would go for an election if she had balls. Despite volatility in Richmond, the overall mood of the country is pretty squarely behind her. Corbyn is beneath contempt, and UKIP's fox has been shot.
She has immense political capital right now - on a par with Blair in his pomp - but lacks the parliamentary majority needed to exercise it.
She therefore stands there, adamantine but impotent.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?
Not necessarily more so than individual countries.
a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.
You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.
You raised India and China. I would personally have set the bar much higher
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
No country is sovereign if it doesn't control it's borders.
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.
Regulations that we signed up to. What makes you think we will replace them with less idiotic regulations?
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
No country is sovereign if it doesn't control it's borders.
Off topic - my wife has just come in to me raging against the BBC. Apparently they have put some minor cup replay on and cancelled the second and concluding part of silent witness. Lots of anger according to the social media
:S Trouble ahead at t'mill this evening for me I fear.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.
Regulations that we signed up to. What makes you think we will replace them with less idiotic regulations?
We had no choice to agree to them - now we can make our own laws
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?
Not necessarily more so than individual countries.
a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.
You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.
You raised India and China. I would personally have set the bar much higher
The key point is that the EU is a trading bloc and like any bloc has rules to protect the interests of those inside the bloc.
If that's protectionist, then every country on earth is protectionist.
Like all Brexitard criticisms, they only make sense in the absence of any comparators.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
No country is sovereign if it doesn't control it's borders.
Schengen?
If you count that as country,thank god we are out.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.
Regulations that we signed up to. What makes you think we will replace them with less idiotic regulations?
We had no choice to agree to them - now we can make our own laws
Yes we did have a choice. We voted for governments who signed up to these regulations. And we never stopped making our own laws.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.
Regulations that we signed up to. What makes you think we will replace them with less idiotic regulations?
Can I introduce you to the Dangerous Dogs Act and Cones Hotline!?
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
Like the Japanese infantrymen abandoned forlorn in the jungle for years after VJ Day, so some souls here keep fighting the referendum as if the campaign continues. Bless.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
No country is sovereign if it doesn't control it's borders.
Schengen?
If you count that as country,thank god we are out.
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
Like the Japanese infantrymen abandoned forlorn in the jungle for years after VJ Day, so some souls here keep fighting the referendum as if the campaign continues. Bless.
I was reading yesterday that it was the 3rd anniversary of the death of the soldier who surrendered in 1974
Like the Japanese infantrymen abandoned forlorn in the jungle for years after VJ Day, so some souls here keep fighting the referendum as if the campaign continues. Bless.
I think the better WW2 metaphor is that there are still a few folk on here who think that - although blitzkrieg through Poland has gone well - the whole thing will end in tears.
Of course we've got YEARS to go until we get to the Brexit equivalent of the Fuhrerbunker.
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
My wife has just seen this reply and is horrified that anyone could troll like you do
A good percentage of my business is export, and over the past 6 months it has seemed to me that known times of expected volatility have been far less volatile than times where an unknown or unexpected factor has occurred. Not that I can often do much about it, mind!
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
Same could be said about you and the EU.
Figuratively I am more than happy with you putting me in said position...it';s exactly where I want to be.....
You seem to have accepted the point that the Internal Market is protectionist. We shall see whether we are able to negotiate better trade deals outside the Internal Market than the IM is able to (looking good at present) but I do agree that that will have to be set against how much the Internal Market's protectionism costs us.
Nope, I never accepted that the Single Market is protectionist to the members of it. You're being disingenuous. It's not even particularly protectionist to others.
The EU has the best set of FTAs of anyone, which they have built up over many years. I can say with absolute certainty we are not going replicate them in short order. It is highly unlikely we will improve on them at any time, for three very particular reasons:
1. We will be dealing with the same protectionist countries the EU has already negotiated with. The EU has the deals that are worth having.
2. The EU has more commercial clout than we do. It counts.
3. The trend is going away from globalisation and free trade. FTAs were easier to reach when the EU t was doing them.
The government rhetoric around trade deals is simply political cover to maintain the pretence that Brexit is Britain is opening to the world, when it is actually a disconnection.
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
I imagine you're getting rather hot under the collar, when writing that.
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
My wife has just seen this reply and is horrified that anyone could troll like you do
Tyson and SeanT are the only posters who can make me cackle dirtily like Sid James.
Great news about Chelsea Manning's sentence. Question for the legal peeps on here. She is not due to be released until May. Can an incoming president rescind the commutation? I hope not, but could it happen?
You seem to have accepted the point that the Internal Market is protectionist. We shall see whether we are able to negotiate better trade deals outside the Internal Market than the IM is able to (looking good at present) but I do agree that that will have to be set against how much the Internal Market's protectionism costs us.
Nope, I never accepted that the Single Market is protectionist to the members of it. You're being disingenuous. It's not even particularly protectionist to others.
The EU has the best set of FTAs of anyone, which they have built up over many years. I can say with absolute certainty we are not going replicate them in short order. It is highly unlikely we will improve on them at any time, for three very particular reasons:
1. We will be dealing with the same protectionist countries the EU has already negotiated with. The EU has the deals that are worth having.
2. The EU has more commercial clout than we do. It counts.
3. The trend is going away from globalisation and free trade. FTAs were easier to reach when the EU t was doing them.
The government rhetoric around trade deals is simply political cover to maintain the pretence that Brexit is Britain is opening to the world, when it is actually a disconnection.
Great summary.
Although you missed the wonderful opportunity we now have to be humped by Trump.
My chicken is getting all chlorine soaked just thinking about it.
The government rhetoric around trade deals is simply political cover to maintain the pretence that Brexit is Britain is opening to the world, when it is actually a disconnection.
It's odd that the 'global Britain' guff, while being quickly dropped by the Leave campaign because it didn't resonate (and frankly wasn't true), is proving to be the most resistant to the application of logic now that we are 7 months into the process.
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
My wife has just seen this reply and is horrified that anyone could troll like you do
Jeez....if I'd have shown my wife what people have written about me on this site.....
Part 2 in an occasional series of Viewcode's currency peregrinations. This week's episode: USD accounts. Basically it's Rogue One and I'm wondering what the heavy breathing in the corridor is...
On Sunday I moved £3900[2] into USD. Unfortunately that wasn't *quite* at the bottom of the market...but it wasn't far off. Contrary to what people are thinking GBP started to move up at 9:30am today when the inflation figures came out: they were higher than expected and people are now anticipating an interest rate rise. That accounted for the first 2-3cents, with May's speech accounting for the rest (or slowing it down: salt to taste). It closed at a smidgen under £1.24 and I have lost approx £200. Oh bollocks,
Now here's where it gets interesting. Normally I'd close the position, stay in for a couple of weekends and write it off. But (as some of you know) I work away from home and cannot log in remotely during the week. So I'm going to have to ride it out 'til Friday. Problem is, there's the upcoming stats release timetable this week[1], and it looks...uh-oh
Weds is employment stats and earnings, and I don't see those being bad for GBP. But thay's not the end of it. Thursday is the BOE interest rate decision, and if it's up the shit will hit the fan. Friday should bring some relief as traders realise profits and the week unwinds slightly, but - GODDAMMIT - Friday is the Trump inauguration.
So this week may consist of me clenching an increasingly squitty bottom. I shall do a little sign: "WILL DO STATS FOR FOOD". Has anybody got a dog on a string?
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
My wife has just seen this reply and is horrified that anyone could troll like you do
Jeez....if I'd have shown my wife what people have written about me on this site.....
Toughen up man....
I didnt - she noticed it as it was lying open on the table - we have no secrets
Great news about Chelsea Manning's sentence. Question for the legal peeps on here. She is not due to be released until May. Can an incoming president rescind the commutation? I hope not, but could it happen?
I think it was a good speech, and excellent positioning from Mrs May. That it was so well taken by the Europeans tells me she got the tone right, but she also respected the referendum well. I think she has positioned herself at the Hardest Brexit level, and has room to inch inwards, which is clearly the right way to go, while also indicating she's prepared to go full WTO (although it's not the preferred option).
There's hard work to come, and I'm not confident that Fox is the right person to forge relationships with people other than lobbyists. But it was a good speech by May. She may turn out to be better than I'd feared.
Just for you Tyson - I have just received a personal e mail from Theresa with her twelve objectives and for us all to work together to make Brexit a success
And did Theresa May mention by chance the orgasmic pleasure that she was receiving as your tongue was robustly probing deep into her anus and your face was softly wallowing into her plump, jellowy, butt cheeks...... ?...all figurative but you get the image right?
I imagine you're getting rather hot under the collar, when writing that.
I think it (my post) was probably more merited for the prize of the worst sex award.....but if it gets your rocks off Sean,. I hope you haver some tissues handy....
There again. some really pathetic poster, maybe aged around 50 plus,. who likes to brag about shagging young girls could possibly pop up and spoil my night....
The government rhetoric around trade deals is simply political cover to maintain the pretence that Brexit is Britain is opening to the world, when it is actually a disconnection.
It's odd that the 'global Britain' guff, while being quickly dropped by the Leave campaign because it didn't resonate (and frankly wasn't true), is proving to be the most resistant to the application of logic now that we are 7 months into the process.
Brexit rests queasily on two key premises: that immigrants are taking our jobs, and that we can trade our way to prosperity outside the shackles of the EU.
Both are utter horseshit.
Brexiters are on firmer ground when they talk about the undemocratic tendencies of the Commission, and the unhelpful instincts of the ECJ. But since no-one apart from Dan Hannan and @Richard_Tyndall gives a flying one, we are left with the horseshit.
I don't know if PB has an award for most vulgar and unpleasant posts but if so Tyson's revolting efforts tonight must be candidates. Quite how he thinks they advance his argument is beyond me. Too much grappa tonight?
Notwithstanding the supposed early visit by Mrs May to Washington DC to meet the new President, "England" (NB not the UK) appears decent value at 16/1 in Paddy Power's "Trump's First Overseas Visit" market, compared with the other main contenders. Current prices are as follows:
Russia (Ha ha!) ...... 4/6 Canada ................. 5/1 Mexico ................. 5/1 China ................... 7/1 Israel .................... 8/1 England .............. 16/1 France ................ 22/1 Germany ............ 33/1 etc., etc.
It will surely be a country deemed especially friendly towards the U.S. and if not Canada (which should logically be the favourite at somewhere around evens and therefore offering good value also), then good old Blighty England should surely feature large. As ever, DYOR.
I don't know if PB has an award for most vulgar and unpleasant posts but if so Tyson's revolting efforts tonight must be candidates. Quite how he thinks they advance his argument is beyond me. Too much grappa tonight?
I only come to PB for the titillation. Between hard Brexit, Tyson's rimming, and SeanT's deflowering of young Corbynistas - who needs YouPorn?
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?
Not necessarily more so than individual countries.
a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.
You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.
You raised India and China. I would personally have set the bar much higher
The key point is that the EU is a trading bloc and like any bloc has rules to protect the interests of those inside the bloc.
If that's protectionist, then every country on earth is protectionist.
Like all Brexitard criticisms, they only make sense in the absence of any comparators.
I disagree. Countries become protectionist when they set up tariff barriers. The Internal Market is a single entity, to all intents and purposes in a trade context, a country with external tariff barriers. If it is genuinely a motivated free trader, what possible motivation could it have to refuse to continue free trade with the UK when we leave the Internal Market. To do otherwise (as you think it will) would mark it as a protectionist amongst protectionists, imposing new tariff barriers where there were previously none.
I don't know if PB has an award for most vulgar and unpleasant posts but if so Tyson's revolting efforts tonight must be candidates. Quite how he thinks they advance his argument is beyond me. Too much grappa tonight?
Thanks...I was actually quite pleased with the imagery......
I've become quite a convert to Caravaggio this last year, but cannot quite draw as well as him.....
I don't know if PB has an award for most vulgar and unpleasant posts but if so Tyson's revolting efforts tonight must be candidates. Quite how he thinks they advance his argument is beyond me. Too much grappa tonight?
Thanks...I was actually quite pleased with the imagery......
I've become quite a convert to Caravaggio this last year, but cannot quite draw as well as him.....
I think it was a good speech, and excellent positioning from Mrs May. That it was so well taken by the Europeans tells me she got the tone right, but she also respected the referendum well. I think she has positioned herself at the Hardest Brexit level, and has room to inch inwards, which is clearly the right way to go, while also indicating she's prepared to go full WTO (although it's not the preferred option).
There's hard work to come, and I'm not confident that Fox is the right person to forge relationships with people other than lobbyists. But it was a good speech by May. She may turn out to be better than I'd feared.
At the political level I agree a good speech. Its purpose was to shut down debate and challenge by making her Hard Brexit approach appear inevitable. I think it will work at that level. The other side of the coin is that she seems to have abandoned any serious attempts at negotiation. That may be a reflection of Britain's weak hand. We do have some cards to play, but it seems May won't play them.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?
Not necessarily more so than individual countries.
a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.
You have mentioned India and China as countries to compare against. The EU is orders of magnitude less protectionist than those two examples.
You raised India and China. I would personally have set the bar much higher
The key point is that the EU is a trading bloc and like any bloc has rules to protect the interests of those inside the bloc.
If that's protectionist, then every country on earth is protectionist.
Like all Brexitard criticisms, they only make sense in the absence of any comparators.
I disagree. Countries become protectionist when they set up tariff barriers. The Internal Market is a single entity, to all intents and purposes in a trade context, a country with external tariff barriers. If it is genuinely a motivated free trader, what possible motivation could it have to refuse to continue free trade with the UK when we leave the Internal Market. To do otherwise (as you think it will) would mark it as a protectionist amongst protectionists, imposing new tariff barriers where there were previously none.
All countries (or trading blocs) have tariff barriers, that is the point. But some are more tariff-y than others. And some - like the EU - are actually less.
If I were May, I'd be working out how to identify and influence no fewer than 376 members of the European Parliament during the negotiations likely to be most sympathetic to the UK. Not just rely on Verhofstadt.
Thanks, viewcode, I'm flattered, but I was as surprised as you were.
I didn't expect the pound to rise off confirmation of a clean Brexit.
Me neither. I'm not sure if the May speech brought the rise subsequent to this morning's inflation figures to a halt, or added further fuel to the fire. We'll find out as the week progresses.
As an aside, I wonder if anyone would like a bet with me:
I would like to bet that in 2022 (i.e. five years from now), the UK will not have Free Trade Agreements with countries with more people than they would have had in the EU.
Notwithstanding the supposed early visit by Mrs May to Washington DC to meet the new President, "England" (NB not the UK) appears decent value at 16/1 in Paddy Power's "Trump's First Overseas Visit" market, compared with the other main contenders. Current prices are as follows:
Russia (Ha ha!) ...... 4/6 Canada ................. 5/1 Mexico ................. 5/1 China ................... 7/1 Israel .................... 8/1 England .............. 16/1 France ................ 22/1 Germany ............ 33/1 etc., etc.
It will surely be a country deemed especially friendly towards the U.S. and if not Canada (which should logically be the favourite at somewhere around evens and therefore offering good value also), then good old Blighty England should surely feature large. As ever, DYOR.
Notwithstanding the supposed early visit by Mrs May to Washington DC to meet the new President, "England" (NB not the UK) appears decent value at 16/1 in Paddy Power's "Trump's First Overseas Visit" market, compared with the other main contenders. Current prices are as follows:
Russia (Ha ha!) ...... 4/6 Canada ................. 5/1 Mexico ................. 5/1 China ................... 7/1 Israel .................... 8/1 England .............. 16/1 France ................ 22/1 Germany ............ 33/1 etc., etc.
It will surely be a country deemed especially friendly towards the U.S. and if not Canada (which should logically be the favourite at somewhere around evens and therefore offering good value also), then good old Blighty England should surely feature large. As ever, DYOR.
I've seen press briefing that Trump visiting the UK ( Inc the Queen at Windsor ) is booked for March. The fact May's Vogue cover is the April edition ( goes on sale in March ) suggests it's coordinated with the visit and A50 invocation that month. Though DYOR.
The other possible fly in the ointment is Trump's Scottish Ancestry and Golf Course in Scotland. Even if the UK was his first overseas visit he'd screw the PP bet if he landed in Scotland not England first. Though are any of the Scottish Airports big enough for Airforce One ?
But it was a good speech by May. She may turn out to be better than I'd feared.
My thinking precisely. By taking the Single Market off the table, she has removed much of the EU ammo. Now the only real thing left to discuss is a sensible relationship moving forward.
I don't know if PB has an award for most vulgar and unpleasant posts but if so Tyson's revolting efforts tonight must be candidates. Quite how he thinks they advance his argument is beyond me. Too much grappa tonight?
Thanks...I was actually quite pleased with the imagery......
I've become quite a convert to Caravaggio this last year, but cannot quite draw as well as him.....
I don't think that you got the imagery quite right. May's arse is surely rather scrawny like the rest of her, rather than plump and voluptuous.
I normally have not got a good word about May, but it seems that she has come round to my argument (albeit slowly), having been a Remainer she is now a hard Brexiteer. The only sensible option is a clean and hard Brexit, with a trade deal to follow after some time on WTO terms.
I fear I may be turning into a cut price version of Gabriele D'Annunzio
Heck, there are worse fates.
The SeanT seduction technique is finally revealed.
'testimony reveals that women found him unprepossessing, almost repulsively gnomelike at first — until he began to speak in his enchantingly “soft, supple, velvety” voice.'
If I were May, I'd be working out how to identify and influence no fewer than 376 members of the European Parliament during the negotiations likely to be most sympathetic to the UK. Not just rely on Verhofstadt.
But it was a good speech by May. She may turn out to be better than I'd feared.
My thinking precisely. By taking the Single Market off the table, she has removed much of the EU ammo. Now the only real thing left to discuss is a sensible relationship moving forward.
It's still an unknown how this translates into a formal negotiating position. She's trying to take the single market in name off the table, but in practice she seems to expect EFTA like terms in a bespoke deal minus freedom of movement. That will be tough.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Didn't stop Canada getting a deal outside the single market
And they had to negotiate with your bogeymen to get one.
I don't care who negotiates with the UK as long as we are a sovereign Country making our own laws
We always were, old chap. But perhaps it suited politicians of all flavours to pretend we were not.
The list of idiotic EU regulations is longer than war and peace.
I fear I may be turning into a cut price version of Gabriele D'Annunzio
Heck, there are worse fates.
The SeanT seduction technique is finally revealed.
'testimony reveals that women found him unprepossessing, almost repulsively gnomelike at first — until he began to speak in his enchantingly “soft, supple, velvety” voice.'
SeanT gave me some dating advice the other night, it worked.
As an aside, I wonder if anyone would like a bet with me:
I would like to bet that in 2022 (i.e. five years from now), the UK will not have Free Trade Agreements with countries with more people than they would have had in the EU.
Anyone want to bet fifty quid with me?
No. That seems a quite likely outcome. Low odds for a long term bet.
Comments
This is the first statement from the Reuters link:
Roughly two in five U.S. women think that women are more likely to feel unsafe and men more likely to feel entitled to treat women as sexual objects since Trump was voted into office on Nov. 8,
If you think that they should have asked men 'do you feel more entitled to treat women as sex objects?' Then that's another discussion.
It would be interesting to compare what people perceive to be the case with reality, although things like these are hard to study.
I'm entirely conflicted about it personally. Part of me aches for a 1983 style landslide in May for accelerationist purposes. Another part aches to see her get bogged down in years of A50 negotiations with a tiny majority. Which I think would be best for the country depends on my blood sugar.
I think the issue is that there was so much blether and lying, it all got lost in the overall brouhaha. As we've seen since, politicians keep talking about 'access to the single market', which (to me, at least) is gibberish. It's a club. You're either a member or not.
According to her lawyer, Gloria Allred, Ms Zervos has taken a lie-detector test about her testimony and has passed it.
Pope Francis is clearly a good man. Putin is equally clearly not.
Brexit is a blow for freedom and the greater good. Trump, I can understand when if I wish the Republicans (or the Democrats) had come up with better candidates.
I don't know where leaves me on your despise-o-meter
Despite volatility in Richmond, the overall mood of the country is pretty squarely behind her.
Corbyn is beneath contempt, and UKIP's fox has been shot.
She has immense political capital right now - on a par with Blair in his pomp - but lacks the parliamentary majority needed to exercise it.
She therefore stands there, adamantine but impotent.
What makes you think we will replace them with less idiotic regulations?
If that's protectionist, then every country on earth is protectionist.
Like all Brexitard criticisms, they only make sense in the absence of any comparators.
We voted for governments who signed up to these regulations.
And we never stopped making our own laws.
Of course we've got YEARS to go until we get to the Brexit equivalent of the Fuhrerbunker.
The EU has the best set of FTAs of anyone, which they have built up over many years. I can say with absolute certainty we are not going replicate them in short order. It is highly unlikely we will improve on them at any time, for three very particular reasons:
1. We will be dealing with the same protectionist countries the EU has already negotiated with. The EU has the deals that are worth having.
2. The EU has more commercial clout than we do. It counts.
3. The trend is going away from globalisation and free trade. FTAs were easier to reach when the EU t was doing them.
The government rhetoric around trade deals is simply political cover to maintain the pretence that Brexit is Britain is opening to the world, when it is actually a disconnection.
Although you missed the wonderful opportunity we now have to be humped by Trump.
My chicken is getting all chlorine soaked just thinking about it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/17/theresa-may-britain-prime-minister-speech?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Toughen up man....
On Sunday I moved £3900[2] into USD. Unfortunately that wasn't *quite* at the bottom of the market...but it wasn't far off. Contrary to what people are thinking GBP started to move up at 9:30am today when the inflation figures came out: they were higher than expected and people are now anticipating an interest rate rise. That accounted for the first 2-3cents, with May's speech accounting for the rest (or slowing it down: salt to taste). It closed at a smidgen under £1.24 and I have lost approx £200. Oh bollocks,
Now here's where it gets interesting. Normally I'd close the position, stay in for a couple of weekends and write it off. But (as some of you know) I work away from home and cannot log in remotely during the week. So I'm going to have to ride it out 'til Friday. Problem is, there's the upcoming stats release timetable this week[1], and it looks...uh-oh
Weds is employment stats and earnings, and I don't see those being bad for GBP. But thay's not the end of it. Thursday is the BOE interest rate decision, and if it's up the shit will hit the fan. Friday should bring some relief as traders realise profits and the week unwinds slightly, but - GODDAMMIT - Friday is the Trump inauguration.
So this week may consist of me clenching an increasingly squitty bottom. I shall do a little sign: "WILL DO STATS FOR FOOD". Has anybody got a dog on a string?
Notes
[1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/calendar#
[2] I was also thinking of emptying an ISA. Thankfully I didn't...
There's hard work to come, and I'm not confident that Fox is the right person to forge relationships with people other than lobbyists. But it was a good speech by May. She may turn out to be better than I'd feared.
There again. some really pathetic poster, maybe aged around 50 plus,. who likes to brag about shagging young girls could possibly pop up and spoil my night....
Both are utter horseshit.
Brexiters are on firmer ground when they talk about the undemocratic tendencies of the Commission, and the unhelpful instincts of the ECJ. But since no-one apart from Dan Hannan and @Richard_Tyndall gives a flying one, we are left with the horseshit.
What reactions we are seeing now are for public consumption, which is interesting in itself.
I didn't expect the pound to rise off confirmation of a clean Brexit.
Erghhhhh...you sad pathetic, vile creature....I hope you paid her enough....
Notwithstanding the supposed early visit by Mrs May to Washington DC to meet the new President, "England" (NB not the UK) appears decent value at 16/1 in Paddy Power's "Trump's First Overseas Visit" market, compared with the other main contenders. Current prices are as follows:
Russia (Ha ha!) ...... 4/6
Canada ................. 5/1
Mexico ................. 5/1
China ................... 7/1
Israel .................... 8/1
England .............. 16/1
France ................ 22/1
Germany ............ 33/1
etc., etc.
It will surely be a country deemed especially friendly towards the U.S. and if not Canada (which should logically be the favourite at somewhere around evens and therefore offering good value also), then good old Blighty England should surely feature large.
As ever, DYOR.
Between hard Brexit, Tyson's rimming, and SeanT's deflowering of young Corbynistas - who needs YouPorn?
Thanks...I was actually quite pleased with the imagery......
I've become quite a convert to Caravaggio this last year, but cannot quite draw as well as him.....
Despite what you read in the Daily Mail.
They are the wildcard.
I would like to bet that in 2022 (i.e. five years from now), the UK will not have Free Trade Agreements with countries with more people than they would have had in the EU.
Anyone want to bet fifty quid with me?
The other possible fly in the ointment is Trump's Scottish Ancestry and Golf Course in Scotland. Even if the UK was his first overseas visit he'd screw the PP bet if he landed in Scotland not England first. Though are any of the Scottish Airports big enough for Airforce One ?
I normally have not got a good word about May, but it seems that she has come round to my argument (albeit slowly), having been a Remainer she is now a hard Brexiteer. The only sensible option is a clean and hard Brexit, with a trade deal to follow after some time on WTO terms.
I know,but is schengen a country,that's my point on sovereignty.
But we have joined a freedom of movement of people from the EU inwhich we can't control our borders.
If you want a sovereign nation called the united states of Europe,you might like it then.
'testimony reveals that women found him unprepossessing, almost repulsively gnomelike at first — until he began to speak in his enchantingly “soft, supple, velvety” voice.'
https://twitter.com/mmurraypolitics/status/821477573335117827