@SkyNewsBreak: A women who is accusing Donald Trump of inappropriate sexual conduct has announced she is filing a lawsuit today against the President-Elect
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
Can I just ask....is there anyone out there who feels a modicum of sympathy for migrants, thinks Pope Francis is a good man, understands that Putin is not particularly good.....and still stands for Brexit and Trump...I'd love to know how you reconcile the two.....
The PM delivered today. Quite what she delivered is no doubt tricky to decipher, but she has set out a reasonably clear framework, and has faced up to some big issues.
I have every sympathy with those that don't like the plan. I'm quite sure that Farron has gone completely over the top.
I've no idea where this will finish up and I'm still pondering what May said. For her though I think this has been a good speech, and that she is starting to show a good degree of character, and perhaps, just perhaps, showing the sort of mettle that might lead us through the minefield of Brexit.
The better May does the worse it is for Sturgeon (Perhaps for Corbyn too, but I can't be bothered with also rans). An independent Scotland within the EU when the rest of the UK is outside the EU doesn't work - and it doesn't work on toast. It might work if the SNP could somehow create a Gallic area of Ireland (all of it) and Scotland. Then they'd be big enough to count.
Why doesn't an independent Scotland within the EU when the rest of the UK is outside the EU work ? Do you think Ireland will leave the EU because of our Brexit ?
About 2/3rds of Scotland's trade is with rUK. Is it massively different from Ireland's ? Over time trade with other EU countries will increase.
It's simply geography. And no I don't think Ireland will leave, but the cost of their membership will rise for the rest of the EU.
It's not really credible that the departure of a great big piece of land in your trade routes makes life easier, nor is it credible that the departure of the bulk of the speakers of your language from your trade block make it easier. If Scotland was an independent nation now it'd be facing the same factors that Ireland does now, and minus the benefits that Ireland gets from the UK.
Both Scotland and Ireland are totally dependent on the UK. So an Independent Scotland doesn't work, and post Brexit the EU will have to support Ireland in a big way. I think these are Rumsfeld's known-knowns.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
We ended up in a stalemate and negotiated settlement the last time when we had a Cold War military and a much more unified sense of Britishness. Which isn't to say a resumption of violence is likely. It's to ask if it's now more likely ? Or less unlikely if you prefer. The Border issue in Brexit and in republican mythology is a real one.
Anyway as you've reached straight for Ad Hominem rather than engage in any of my specific points you can shove your opinion of my post where the sun don't shine !
Not that I really care to argue the point, but on the counter-terrorism issue things have changed a great deal since the heyday of the IRA as I am sure they are well aware. It wouldn't be a rerun of what happened in the 1970s. Not even close.
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
I don't know how to put this without sounding rude but since the Referendum your posts have steadily gotten worse. You are verging on Icke like rambling now.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
The EU customs union is inherently protectionist. If the external tariff is non-zero, then the union itself presents a barrier to total free trade. If the external tariff is zero, the customs union basically ceases to exist. You can dismiss agriculture as a small part - but Ed Miliband disagrees... https://fullfact.org/europe/does-eu-spend-40-its-budget-farm-subsidies/
Chris Leslie suggesting Merkel is bluffing over red lines on the single market on BBC News ...
Doubtless constructing a fantasy scenario. in which May could've got complete tariff-free single market access *and* complete control over the borders at the same time, if only she had negotiated skilfully enough. The fact that this will not be achieved is to be framed as being the product of her incompetence, rather than the task being, in fact, impossible. Because Merkel is not bluffing.
How many people will actually fall for this rubbish remains to be seen...
It's enterprising for Leavers to push this line, given that most of them spent all of 2016 arguing that Britain could have its cake and eat it in exactly this way. But no doubt they will forget this, 1984 style, as they celebrate their own definitive failure on this front.
The PM delivered today. Quite what she delivered is no doubt tricky to decipher, but she has set out a reasonably clear framework, and has faced up to some big issues.
I have every sympathy with those that don't like the plan. I'm quite sure that Farron has gone completely over the top.
I've no idea where this will finish up and I'm still pondering what May said. For her though I think this has been a good speech, and that she is starting to show a good degree of character, and perhaps, just perhaps, showing the sort of mettle that might lead us through the minefield of Brexit.
The better May does the worse it is for Sturgeon (Perhaps for Corbyn too, but I can't be bothered with also rans). An independent Scotland within the EU when the rest of the UK is outside the EU doesn't work - and it doesn't work on toast. It might work if the SNP could somehow create a Gallic area of Ireland (all of it) and Scotland. Then they'd be big enough to count.
Why doesn't an independent Scotland within the EU when the rest of the UK is outside the EU work ? Do you think Ireland will leave the EU because of our Brexit ?
About 2/3rds of Scotland's trade is with rUK. Is it massively different from Ireland's ? Over time trade with other EU countries will increase.
It's simply geography. And no I don't think Ireland will leave, but the cost of their membership will rise for the rest of the EU.
It's not really credible that the departure of a great big piece of land in your trade routes makes life easier, nor is it credible that the departure of the bulk of the speakers of your language from your trade block make it easier. If Scotland was an independent nation now it'd be facing the same factors that Ireland does now, and minus the benefits that Ireland gets from the UK.
Both Scotland and Ireland are totally dependent on the UK. So an Independent Scotland doesn't work, and post Brexit the EU will have to support Ireland in a big way. I think these are Rumsfeld's known-knowns.
What we also know is that people see things through a wider prism than economics. It is clear that Scotland and England are drifting apart, just as England and the EU were. It's time for us to go our separate ways. I never thought I'd say that, but we are just not the Union we were.
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
Your tongue reaches so far up the rectum of Theresa May.. I think similarly Plato's would like to dig under Trump's prostate unaided....
@iankatz1000: Italian Europe minister @sandrogozi tells us UK threats to cut taxes if no Brex deal "totally useless, won't affect negotiation" More, 22.30
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
The EU customs union is inherently protectionist. If the external tariff is non-zero, then the union itself presents a barrier to total free trade. If the external tariff is zero, the customs union basically ceases to exist.
And in a world where the EU is an increasingly minor player.
In 1980, it was 30% of the global economy. Post expansion and Brexit it is just 12%.
Can I just ask....is there anyone out there who feels a modicum of sympathy for migrants, thinks Pope Francis is a good man, understands that Putin is not particularly good.....and still stands for Brexit and Trump...I'd love to know how you reconcile the two.....
I agree with all of your positions (immigrants, Pope and Putin) and am strongly pro Brexit. I fall down on the Trump view as I do not view him with any pleasure at all.
We ended up in a stalemate and negotiated settlement the last time when we had a Cold War military and a much more unified sense of Britishness. Which isn't to say a resumption of violence is likely. It's to ask if it's now more likely ? Or less unlikely if you prefer. The Border issue in Brexit and in republican mythology is a real one.
Anyway as you've reached straight for Ad Hominem rather than engage in any of my specific points you can shove your opinion of my post where the sun don't shine !
Not that I really care to argue the point, but on the counter-terrorism issue things have changed a great deal since the heyday of the IRA as I am sure they are well aware. It wouldn't be a rerun of what happened in the 1970s. Not even close.
No, but the English have decided to reject one of the fundamental tenets of the Good Friday agreement that was overwhelmingly endorsed by voters in both parts of Ireland.
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
Oh my goodness, we're back to war, pestilence and famine. All after one speech from the PM
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
I watched that. And I've been reading A Bridge Too Far (Cornelius Ryan), a fantastic book which I'd recommend to everyone. WW2 does put EVERYTHING into perspective. I certainly count my lucky stars every day.
I wonder what that British soldier who, out of ammunition, charged a Panzer tank with just an umbrella in Arnhem, would make of the histrionics. Those guys were unbelievably, UNBELIEVABLY bloody brave. I feel humbled reading it.
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
It is certainly reassuring that both Donald Trump and Marine le Pen have been inspired by the PM's speech!
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
The EU regularly puts up protectionist barriers against places like China and India. They are indeed very protectionist.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to be impaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
The EU is anti-democratic. I don't see how that can be defined as 'free'.
The EU could be a great thing. It isn't. That's the tragedy of all this. That something that could and should be great is run to the dissatisfaction of most EU citizens.
In a perfect world I'd love the EU to change imto something great and for the UK to be part of it. It won't, so we've done the right thing.
How any freedom loving liberal can see good in the Eastern European states being brain-drained of their young talent so they can emigrate here and work for pittance (I worked with a Polish teacber who spoke five languages and she was working in a menial job for minimum wage) is beyond me. The freedom of movement issue should and could've been handled far better.
I suspect "freedom loving liberals" would say the young talent are capable of deciding what is best for themselves and it's not our job to stop them - on the grounds that they are in our opinion wasting those talents.
I wonder what that British soldier who, out of ammunition, charged a Panzer tank with just an umbrella in Arnhem, would make of the histrionics.
A guy who flew into occupied Holland (along with Polish reinforcements) to liberate them, would think of walking away because some of his neighbours didn't like hearing foreign voices on a train...
@iankatz1000: Italian Europe minister @sandrogozi tells us UK threats to cut taxes if no Brex deal "totally useless, won't affect negotiation" More, 22.30
Seems a very odd statement.If it won't affect the negotiation why mention it or else let us think we have a bargaining chip when we don't.
Can I just ask....is there anyone out there who feels a modicum of sympathy for migrants, thinks Pope Francis is a good man, understands that Putin is not particularly good.....and still stands for Brexit and Trump...I'd love to know how you reconcile the two.....
I don't see how you can fail to have sympathy for migrants. Pope Francis may well be good in some respects, holding an outdated restrictive symbolistic position makes him look pointless and useless. Putin is exceptionally good. At doing things that cause trouble and bolster his personal position. I wouldn't recommend crossing him. The EU is destined to fail ultimately. Any free nation should be and to prosper within or outside a political Union. Trump? He an odd ball. Bound to do some idiotic things, the law of unintended consequences says some will work out well.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to be impaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
The EU is anti-democratic. I don't see how that can be defined as 'free'.
The EU could be a great thing. It isn't. That's the tragedy of all this. That something that could and should be great is run to the dissatisfaction of most EU citizens.
In a perfect world I'd love the EU to change imto something great and for the UK to be part of it. It won't, so we've done the right thing.
How any freedom loving liberal can see good in the Eastern European states being brain-drained of their young talent so they can emigrate here and work for pittance (I worked with a Polish teacber who spoke five languages and she was working in a menial job for minimum wage) is beyond me. The freedom of movement issue should and could've been handled far better.
Quite. Leave is about the EU being absolute crap and run by self serving, self important, un-elected bureaucrats. It is an opportunity missed and it's irretrievable. We're quite capable of fucking up our recovered independence but we should give it our best shot collectively.
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
Oh my goodness, we're back to war, pestilence and famine. All after one speech from the PM
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
I watched that. And I've been reading A Bridge Too Far (Cornelius Ryan), a fantastic book which I'd recommend to everyone. WW2 does put EVERYTHING into perspective. I certainly count my lucky stars every day.
I wonder what that British soldier who, out of ammunition, charged a Panzer tank with just an umbrella in Arnhem, would make of the histrionics. Those guys were unbelievably, UNBELIEVABLY bloody brave. I feel humbled reading it.
Agreed.
Best thing about it for me is the testimony of some key players and officials. And Larry's voiceover, of course!
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
Your tongue reaches so far up the rectum of Theresa May.. I think similarly Plato's would like to dig under Trump's prostate unaided....
Tyson to be fair BigG supports all conservative leaders in power.He was very complimentary about Cameron before the referendum.He seems a dedicated Conservative cheer leader every party needs them.
Curiously I'm listening to ' Five Days in London, May 1940 ' by John Luckas at the moment ( an audio book ). I'm afraid meditating on WW2 and quite how close western civilisation came to the abyss doesn't make the week of May's speech and Trump's inauguration any better for me.
@iankatz1000: Italian Europe minister @sandrogozi tells us UK threats to cut taxes if no Brex deal "totally useless, won't affect negotiation" More, 22.30
Seems a very odd statement.If it won't affect the negotiation why mention it or else let us think we have a bargaining chip when we don't.
Yeah, if it really is useless the last thing you want to do is let the other side know how useless a strategy it is!
I wonder what that British soldier who, out of ammunition, charged a Panzer tank with just an umbrella in Arnhem, would make of the histrionics.
A guy who flew into occupied Holland (along with Polish reinforcements) to liberate them, would think of walking away because some of his neighbours didn't like hearing foreign voices on a train...
Yes, it would be interesting.
The point is, whether left, right, anti-Trump, anti-Brexit or Brexiteer, people these days do go over the top a wee bit.
I'm confident Brexit will be a good thing. But then I'm gung ho about everything.
Curiously I'm listening to ' Five Days in London, May 1940 ' by John Luckas at the moment ( an audio book ). I'm afraid meditating on WW2 and quite how close western civilisation came to the abyss doesn't make the week of May's speech and Trump's inauguration any better for me.
Just finished watching The Man in the High Castle. One of the interesting aspects commented on by the actors is how quickly the American's adjusted and accepted a totalitarian fascist state in the story
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
I am increasingly sceptical that leaving the EU really is the end of the union. In 2014 defence of the realm was in many voters minds not an issue. With Trump and Putin it is now a much bigger issue and the idea of an independent Scotland much more vulnerable and less appealing. It might still happen, but my instinct is that if Scotland is going to go independent it would have happened anyway, even if had we stayed in the EU. The mandate for the EU in Scotland, at 62% is hardly definitive. To some extent Brexit was a fuck you from english voters to the scots. It may have worked in terms of deflating the Scottish independence bubble.
As for NI I have no idea but I think that in the end there is no appetite to return to hostilities. There have been two decades of peace and a generation has come of age since the peace process started. But who knows really.
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
We ended up in a stalemate and negotiated settlement the last time when we had a Cold War military and a much more unified sense of Britishness. Which isn't to say a resumption of violence is likely. It's to ask if it's now more likely ? Or less unlikely if you prefer. The Border issue in Brexit and in republican mythology is a real one.
Anyway as you've reached straight for Ad Hominem rather than engage in any of my specific points you can shove your opinion of my post where the sun don't shine !
Not that I really care to argue the point, but on the counter-terrorism issue things have changed a great deal since the heyday of the IRA as I am sure they are well aware. It wouldn't be a rerun of what happened in the 1970s. Not even close.
No, but the English have decided to reject one of the fundamental tenets of the Good Friday agreement that was overwhelmingly endorsed by voters in both parts of Ireland.
The English have voted for poverty and dismemberment of the union. Because they are fed up with immigration.
Theresa May's speech today basically confirms that she and we understand the choice, and will indeed visit self-harm upon ourselves which may be moderated by agreement with the 27.
Probably it's the only option she had, short of renouncing this whole farrago.
When Nigel Farage pronounces himself pleased with events, you know something has gone terribly wrong.
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
Oh my goodness, we're back to war, pestilence and famine. All after one speech from the PM
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
That's what Brexit needs. A narration by Laurence Olivier in an earnest clipped style with lots of dramatic pauses..
"There was no way of knowing how the EU would respond. All May could do was stand up and voice her policy. ..... For the millions listening, Brexit was coming."
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
Your tongue reaches so far up the rectum of Theresa May.. I think similarly Plato's would like to dig under Trump's prostate unaided....
As primarily a medievalist I don't mind asking a possibly acile question on modern history. What happened to cities that the Nazis bombed and then captured. Were they rebuilt?
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
Your tongue reaches so far up the rectum of Theresa May.. I think similarly Plato's would like to dig under Trump's prostate unaided....
Tyson to be fair BigG supports all conservative leaders in power.He was very complimentary about Cameron before the referendum.He seems a dedicated Conservative cheer leader every party needs them.
What about being critical?......I am a lefty Labour Party member who has found fundamental problems with....Corbyn (obviously); Ed Miliband (bellend), Brown (weirdo); Blair (started off well but became deranged); Kinnock (Welsh Windbag); Foot (obviously); Callaghan...now you're talking I Like Sunny Jim and Wilson, but Jeez I have to go back a long way....
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
The EU regularly puts up protectionist barriers against places like China and India. They are indeed very protectionist.
The EU is FAR less protectionist than China and India*. Do you want to take up the challenge of naming countries and trading blocs that are significantly less protectionist than the EU (excepting agriculture and for reference EFTA countries are even more protectionist on agriculture)?
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
@iankatz1000: Italian Europe minister @sandrogozi tells us UK threats to cut taxes if no Brex deal "totally useless, won't affect negotiation" More, 22.30
perhaps that's because tax is a little understood concept to an Italian
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
Oh my goodness, we're back to war, pestilence and famine. All after one speech from the PM
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
That's what Brexit needs. A narration by Laurence Olivier in an earnest clipped style with lots of dramatic pauses..
"There was no way of knowing how the EU would respond. All May could do was stand up and voice her policy. ..... For the millions listening, Brexit was coming."
The World At War remains quite stunning television. And Olivier.......he made it nigh on impossible to listen to any other narration in the many imitations and variations of this series or any other historical ones that have followed.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
A good percentage of my business is export, and over the past 6 months it has seemed to me that known times of expected volatility have been far less volatile than times where an unknown or unexpected factor has occurred. Not that I can often do much about it, mind!
@iankatz1000: Italian Europe minister @sandrogozi tells us UK threats to cut taxes if no Brex deal "totally useless, won't affect negotiation" More, 22.30
perhaps that's because tax is a little understood concept to an Italian
Not fair .There is always one set of books for the taxman in an Italian company.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?
Not necessarily more so than individual countries.
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
Oh my goodness, we're back to war, pestilence and famine. All after one speech from the PM
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
That's what Brexit needs. A narration by Laurence Olivier in an earnest clipped style with lots of dramatic pauses..
"There was no way of knowing how the EU would respond. All May could do was stand up and voice her policy. ..... For the millions listening, Brexit was coming."
His pronunciation of 'You-cray-n' has always stayed with me...
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Good points. It will put out some people quite badly though, and doubtless there will be some winners in the mix somewhere too. But I think the reason it makes so many people so angry is that it is to do with a very primal sense of belonging to a group. Leavers feel that remainers are betraying us to outsiders. Remainers feel they are being pulled out of their tribe and cast adrift. It's deep gut feelings we are talking about really, not details of trade deals. If you can keep detached you are doing well.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
As primarily a medievalist I don't mind asking a possibly acile question on modern history. What happened to cities that the Nazis bombed and then captured. Were they rebuilt?
Warsaw is an interesting example. It was effectively destroyed three times. First during the invasion of Poland in 1939 when it was heavily bombed in the Blitzkrieg, again during the suppression of the Jewish ghetto in 1943 and finally during the Polish uprising in 1944.
In both the East and West cities were rebuilt after the war. Some attempts were made during the war but not to any great extent.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Is that the new Brexit argument?
"Less harmful than an influenza pandemic".
No, it's called putting it into perspective, something known as "reality".
The PM delivered today. Quite what she delivered is no doubt tricky to decipher, but she has set out a reasonably clear framework, and has faced up to some big issues.
The better May does the worse it is for Sturgeon (Perhaps for Corbyn too, but I can't be bothered with also rans). An independent Scotland within the EU when the rest of the UK is outside the EU doesn't work - and it doesn't work on toast. It might work if the SNP could somehow create a Gallic area of Ireland (all of it) and Scotland. Then they'd be big enough to count.
Why doesn't an independent Scotland within the EU when the rest of the UK is outside the EU work ? Do you think Ireland will leave the EU because of our Brexit ?
About 2/3rds of Scotland's trade is with rUK. Is it massively different from Ireland's ? Over time trade with other EU countries will increase.
It's simply geography. And no I don't think Ireland will leave, but the cost of their membership will rise for the rest of the EU.
It's not really credible that the departure of a great big piece of land in your trade routes makes life easier, nor is it credible that the departure of the bulk of the speakers of your language from your trade block make it easier. If Scotland was an independent nation now it'd be facing the same factors that Ireland does now, and minus the benefits that Ireland gets from the UK.
Both Scotland and Ireland are totally dependent on the UK. So an Independent Scotland doesn't work, and post Brexit the EU will have to support Ireland in a big way. I think these are Rumsfeld's known-knowns.
What we also know is that people see things through a wider prism than economics. It is clear that Scotland and England are drifting apart, just as England and the EU were. It's time for us to go our separate ways. I never thought I'd say that, but we are just not the Union we were.
Yes I agree emotionally. (Although I'm actually not convinced at all that the apparent Scottish wish is their actual wish). Practically I can't see any way it works though, no matter how good the intentions are. However that's not the rUK's problem if the EU wanted to take on an independent Scotland as a member. My view is that they'd be sacrificing a small union where they have a disproportionately loud voice for a big union where they had no voice at all.
I'm not at all sure though that I don't want the Scots to go off to their EU wonderland though. My blood is in part Scottish, but I don't believe that my ancestors would have in any way approved of the SNP. Their argument is (at core) about Kings and Queens that died hundreds of years ago.
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
Your tongue reaches so far up the rectum of Theresa May.. I think similarly Plato's would like to dig under Trump's prostate unaided....
Tyson to be fair BigG supports all conservative leaders in power.He was very complimentary about Cameron before the referendum.He seems a dedicated Conservative cheer leader every party needs them.
What about being critical?......I am a lefty Labour Party member who has found fundamental problems with....Corbyn (obviously); Ed Miliband (bellend), Brown (weirdo); Blair (started off well but became deranged); Kinnock (Welsh Windbag); Foot (obviously); Callaghan...now you're talking I Like Sunny Jim and Wilson, but Jeez I have to go back a long way....
Tyson yes I prefer critical.I would totally agree with your assessment of previous labour leaders and the current one.I did like John Smith he could be really witty in the house of commons.
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
The left will fight back and win because ultimately fairness, equality and human rights are part of human evolution.
Deary me. It's exactly this sort of tripe which people are thankfully starting to see through.
The Left doesn't own these things.
And the Left should not think that it alone can define what those things actually mean.
Give me one example of how right wing ideological governments have achieved progressive change for the masses, the poor and minorities?
I can give plenty of examples of left-wing ideological governments... and they ALL have been detrimental for the masses.
Indeed most left-wing governments are at their core 'ideological'... right-wing governments (and this is why you had to add 'ideological' to your sentence) rarely are ideological.
Right-wing PRAGMATIC governments have helped the masses for they seek to lift the prosperity of all, rich and poor.
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
It does make you wonder how people of this era would cope with a real crisis. Not well seems to be the answer.
The snowflakes
I'm honestly not being snarky but some people — not people here who generally have a good sense of perspective — seem to have little grasp of how relatively unimportant leaving the EU is in the grand scheme of things. Compared to real crisis in living memory it is not a big deal, and yet we get endless hyperbole about it. The doomsday scenario is that the economy might grow marginally more slowly than it otherwise would. Leaving the EU is not on a par with a world war, or any war, it's not the Cold War with the threat of imminent global destruction, it's not Spanish flu, or any number of other lesser crises. I find it hard to be more than mildly concerned about the whole business.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Great to leave the whole undemocratic technocrats of Brussels far behind
Except when we want to trade with the EU, in which case the undemocratic technocrats will be making the rules.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Hilarious.
It is great to leave an organisation that we have been a reluctant member of for at least a couple of decades now. I dare say that in private quite a few member countries of the EU are happy that we are going.
I do wonder if today will mark a change throughout the EU as peoples throughout Europe hear an inspirational speech, the like of which has not been delivered to the EU before.
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
Your tongue reaches so far up the rectum of Theresa May.. I think similarly Plato's would like to dig under Trump's prostate unaided....
Tyson to be fair BigG supports all conservative leaders in power.He was very complimentary about Cameron before the referendum.He seems a dedicated Conservative cheer leader every party needs them.
What about being critical?......I am a lefty Labour Party member who has found fundamental problems with....Corbyn (obviously); Ed Miliband (bellend), Brown (weirdo); Blair (started off well but became deranged); Kinnock (Welsh Windbag); Foot (obviously); Callaghan...now you're talking I Like Sunny Jim and Wilson, but Jeez I have to go back a long way....
So, basically you've remained loyal to a concept of a party where leaders have been selected that you think are essentially unfit to lead. You need to go back about 50 years before there's a leader you respect. In addition, IIRC, you're not even resident in the U.K. so are not willing to fight on the ground to return the party to your ideal.
A dark dark day for the Union. It's the worst of all possible worlds. Actual Brexit makes Scottish Independence harder in practice. But Hard Brexit will increase the real and percieved grievance in Scotland at the democratic deficit. Assuming Sturgeon doesn't cut and run before the window slams shut we're in for over a decade of increasingly bitter quasi separatism.
For the first time in my life, and this breaks my heart, I think the Scots should go. Though with the proviso not being honest at the start it would be a lengthy and painful process not the SNP's fairyland. As someone who thinks of my Britishness as my primary identity the is hugely painful. But can I honestly ask non English Britons to pay the price for English exceptionalism ?
As for Northern Ireland.... It's in limbo with neither unification, the status quo or independence being viable. What I would say though is unionism is a two way street. If Northern Ireland Unionists have help strip me of my European rights, identity and citizenship why should I give a flying f**k about their British ones ? Why should I support the huge fiscal and political transfers needed to keep their statelet afloat ?
They should pray renegade republicans don't decide to roll the dice on a post crash nativist England with a shrivelled defence budget not having the will for another war.
Oh my goodness, we're back to war, pestilence and famine. All after one speech from the PM
It's laughable isn't it. I've been watching the World at War recently. Actual War, not a few lattes less each week. Some people need some perspective.
I watched that. And I've been reading A Bridge Too Far (Cornelius Ryan), a fantastic book which I'd recommend to everyone. WW2 does put EVERYTHING into perspective. I certainly count my lucky stars every day.
I wonder what that British soldier who, out of ammunition, charged a Panzer tank with just an umbrella in Arnhem, would make of the histrionics. Those guys were unbelievably, UNBELIEVABLY bloody brave. I feel humbled reading it.
Digby Tatham-Warter. His 2nd in Command was Captain Tony Frank who left the Commandos to join the Paras because he wanted to see more action. I worked for many years with his son and have read his private memoirs. Captured then escaped from hospital at Arnhem. Amazing men.
Isn't great to leave the anti-British, anti-democratic Brussels Jackboot that was determined to snuff out the rights of true born Britons behind? :-D
Hilarious.
It is great to leave an organisation that we have been a reluctant member of for at least a couple of decades now. I dare say that in private quite a few member countries of the EU are happy that we are going.
Brexit: In private, some of them didn't want us anyway.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
The EU regularly puts up protectionist barriers against places like China and India. They are indeed very protectionist.
The EU is FAR less protectionist than China and India*. Do you want to take up the challenge of naming countries and trading blocs that are significantly less protectionist than the EU (excepting agriculture and for reference EFTA countries are even more protectionist on agriculture)?
*Edit
Never mind the degree, if it's protectionist (which it is by your definition) then it isn't free trade. It's not called the Single Market, it's called the Internal Market.
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to be impaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
The EU is anti-democratic. I don't see how that can be defined as 'free'.
The EU could be a great thing. It isn't. That's the tragedy of all this. That something that could and should be great is run to the dissatisfaction of most EU citizens.
In a perfect world I'd love the EU to change imto something great and for the UK to be part of it. It won't, so we've done the right thing.
How any freedom loving liberal can see good in the Eastern European states being brain-drained of their young talent so they can emigrate here and work for pittance (I worked with a Polish teacber who spoke five languages and she was working in a menial job for minimum wage) is beyond me. The freedom of movement issue should and could've been handled far better.
I suspect "freedom loving liberals" would say the young talent are capable of deciding what is best for themselves and it's not our job to stop them - on the grounds that they are in our opinion wasting those talents.
It is worth noting that many such migrants move quickly up the career ladder, as do their children. Intelligence, ambition and hard work tend to put such people and their familes ahead. Last week in interviewd a couple of prospective medical students whose parents came from the EU 12 years ago into menial jobs.
Indeed, It often seems that migrants are often disliked for getting ahead while native Britons moan about how unfair it all is.
But I think the reason it makes so many people so angry is that it is to do with a very primal sense of belonging to a group. Leavers feel that remainers are betraying us to outsiders. Remainers feel they are being pulled out of their tribe and cast adrift. It's deep gut feelings we are talking about really, not details of trade deals. If you can keep detached you are doing well.
I agree there's a lot of emotion tied up in membership, but I don't think leaving the EU will amount to all that much in the end. Most people will cope, maybe not Tim Farron, but normal people will be alright.
Did they actually ask if men felt more entitled to treat women as sexual objects? That graphic asks if men think women feel objectified, and I couldn't see any mention of it in the article.
As primarily a medievalist I don't mind asking a possibly acile question on modern history. What happened to cities that the Nazis bombed and then captured. Were they rebuilt?
Warsaw is an interesting example. It was effectively destroyed three times. First during the invasion of Poland in 1939 when it was heavily bombed in the Blitzkrieg, again during the suppression of the Jewish ghetto in 1943 and finally during the Polish uprising in 1944.
In both the East and West cities were rebuilt after the war. Some attempts were made during the war but not to any great extent.
Thanks Richard. The speed with which the war ebbed and flowed is mind boggling. Grandad was in two theatres of war and had 13 postings during only 5 years in the army. He was due to land in singapore on the day before it unexpectedly fell. He had a tough jungle war instead, but was always grateful for having avoided capture and the camps.
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.
My original prediction, which I guess I now recant, is that May would announce a hard as fuck Brexit and then call an election (this spring).
This would give her a big enough majority to pivot toward a softer Brexit during the Euro-fudge stage.
I recant because she just seems a bit frit.
Which is a shame because she and we are being held hostage by the Brextard gang, cheered on by the slavering proto-fascists in the Mail, and enabled by the equivocating self-hatred of the Corbynistas.
Brexit: In private, some of them didn't want us anyway.
Politics for people with low self esteem.
Countries that want to integrate further will certainly be pleased that the UK no longer has its foot on the brake. That seems quite blindingly obvious to me, your mileage may vary.
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.
You and me both. My obituary will not proclaim me as the 21st centuries greatest pundit - I thought the Yanks would never elect Trump, that Remain would win and we'd be under PM Miliband, to name but three .
It just makes sense to get an early GE under her belt, if only to shut the 'no mandate' folk up.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
The EU regularly puts up protectionist barriers against places like China and India. They are indeed very protectionist.
The EU is FAR less protectionist than China and India*. Do you want to take up the challenge of naming countries and trading blocs that are significantly less protectionist than the EU (excepting agriculture and for reference EFTA countries are even more protectionist on agriculture)?
*Edit
Never mind the degree, if it's protectionist (which it is by your definition) then it isn't free trade. It's not called the Single Market, it's called the Internal Market.
But degree does matter in terms of our prosperity and our jobs when we go from a world where we face LESS protectionism overall to one where face MORE.
The left will fight back and win because ultimately fairness, equality and human rights are part of human evolution.
Deary me. It's exactly this sort of tripe which people are thankfully starting to see through.
The Left doesn't own these things.
And the Left should not think that it alone can define what those things actually mean.
Give me one example of how right wing ideological governments have achieved progressive change for the masses, the poor and minorities?
Thatcher's monetarism has brought inflation under control. Lifting the price controls so the government no longer sets the price of bread. Allowing competition on broadcast TV, while many on the left thought ITV & the BBC couldn't be improved - they got complacent. Raising the personal allowance so those on low wages don't pay income tax.
Mind you, it is pretty parky out. Who'd want to catch cold?
What is a Twitterstorm meant to do? Does Theresa even use Twitter? Can she not close the app if she does use it? It sounds a bit like shouting at the TV.
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.
My original prediction, which I guess I now recant, is that May would announce a hard as fuck Brexit and then call an election (this spring).
This would give her a big enough majority to pivot toward a softer Brexit during the Euro-fudge stage.
I recant because she just seems a bit frit.
Which is a shame because she and we are being held hostage by the Brextard gang, cheered on by the slavering proto-fascists in the Mail, and enabled by the equivocating self-hatred of the Corbynistas.
Charming.
I remember the old days, when 'vapid bilge' was the strongest sentiment ever expressed!
While I thought May's speech was excellent as a speech, and very good as a positioning statement for the rEU, it's not the Brexit I was hoping to see unfold.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
I've been famously wrong about everything recently but I can't believe she's not planning #Mayday. It's a Golden window of oppertunity. All the populist wave of invocation but none of the grinding coverage of Parsnip Tarrifs and xenophobic graffiti on corner shops we'll be arguing about for years. She's mad if she doesn't go for it.
You and me both. My obituary will not proclaim me as the 21st centuries greatest pundit - I thought the Yanks would never elect Trump, that Remain would win and we'd be under PM Miliband, to name but three .
It just makes sense to get an early GE under her belt, if only to shut the 'no mandate' folk up.
Trouble is she's already stated that she doesn't need to have an election before 2020, so it'd be a U turn. The only way I think it would happen is if Parliament tries to block A50.
A dark day for human freedom and progress. While May only told us what we already new words are magic. For a sitting British PM, a Conservative one at that, to say out loud we are withdrawing from the Single Market is epochal. The Single Market is the biggest and best free trade agreement on the planet. There is no upside to leaving in trade terms. The damage from leaving can be mitigated in other ways but it's a bad thing for a free trading nation to do. And Britain is defined by Free Trade. The Four Freedoms are going to beimpaired in both directions. All the evidence of human history is less freedom means less wealth, less health and less happiness. She didn't tell us anything we didn't already know but words are magic. It's a dark day.
It's a free market inside a protectionist curtain.
Not really. Apart from agriculture, the EU is one of the least protectionist trading blocs . Leaving aside the fact we will be moving from inside to outside it. Brexit will certainly impose all sorts of barriers we don't experience now.
a trading bloc isn't by definition protectionist?
Not necessarily more so than individual countries.
a trading bloc of countries is in effect a large country for the purposes of trade, and should be judged as you would judge a sovereign country like China or India. The EU is by definition protectionist.
Comments
While I have noted that Marine Le Pen is delighted with the content and the move to regain sovereignty it has also been commented on and endorsed this evening by the US in Davos who seem to be starting a campaign of endorsement of the UK's actions and it is likely the US EU ambassador will continue this narrative for the next 4 years
Change is all around us and you can 1) ignore change and become obsolete 2) go along with change reluctantly and ultimately fail or 3) accept change, adapt and improve to a successful future.
The EU is at 1 and needs to get to 3 quickly
It's not really credible that the departure of a great big piece of land in your trade routes makes life easier, nor is it credible that the departure of the bulk of the speakers of your language from your trade block make it easier. If Scotland was an independent nation now it'd be facing the same factors that Ireland does now, and minus the benefits that Ireland gets from the UK.
Both Scotland and Ireland are totally dependent on the UK. So an Independent Scotland doesn't work, and post Brexit the EU will have to support Ireland in a big way. I think these are Rumsfeld's known-knowns.
You can dismiss agriculture as a small part - but Ed Miliband disagrees...
https://fullfact.org/europe/does-eu-spend-40-its-budget-farm-subsidies/
In 1980, it was 30% of the global economy. Post expansion and Brexit it is just 12%.
It hasn't worked for us for a decade.
I wonder what that British soldier who, out of ammunition, charged a Panzer tank with just an umbrella in Arnhem, would make of the histrionics. Those guys were unbelievably, UNBELIEVABLY bloody brave. I feel humbled reading it.
The Left doesn't own these things.
And the Left should not think that it alone can define what those things actually mean.
Yes, it would be interesting.
Best thing about it for me is the testimony of some key players and officials. And Larry's voiceover, of course!
I'm confident Brexit will be a good thing. But then I'm gung ho about everything.
As for NI I have no idea but I think that in the end there is no appetite to return to hostilities. There have been two decades of peace and a generation has come of age since the peace process started. But who knows really.
Theresa May's speech today basically confirms that she and we understand the choice, and will indeed visit self-harm upon ourselves which may be moderated by agreement with the 27.
Probably it's the only option she had, short of renouncing this whole farrago.
When Nigel Farage pronounces himself pleased with events, you know something has gone terribly wrong.
"There was no way of knowing how the EU would respond. All May could do was stand up and voice her policy. ..... For the millions listening, Brexit was coming."
Well this poll commissioned has a whole host of interesting findings....
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money"
*Edit
Did they actually ask that question, or are they implying it from the 2/3rds of male republicans not being upset by the comments?
"Less harmful than an influenza pandemic".
A good percentage of my business is export, and over the past 6 months it has seemed to me that known times of expected volatility have been far less volatile than times where an unknown or unexpected factor has occurred. Not that I can often do much about it, mind!
In both the East and West cities were rebuilt after the war. Some attempts were made during the war but not to any great extent.
I'm not at all sure though that I don't want the Scots to go off to their EU wonderland though. My blood is in part Scottish, but I don't believe that my ancestors would have in any way approved of the SNP. Their argument is (at core) about Kings and Queens that died hundreds of years ago.
I wonder if she'll go to the country after the A50 invocation? I appreciate that there's the FTPA, but exceptional times demand exceptional measures. It would make sense, as I don't believe there's much chance of wrapping everything up by April 2019.
Indeed most left-wing governments are at their core 'ideological'... right-wing governments (and this is why you had to add 'ideological' to your sentence) rarely are ideological.
Right-wing PRAGMATIC governments have helped the masses for they seek to lift the prosperity of all, rich and poor.
Unless you're advocating full on North Korean autarchy. Perhaps you are.
It is great to leave an organisation that we have been a reluctant member of for at least a couple of decades now. I dare say that in private quite a few member countries of the EU are happy that we are going.
Politics for people with low self esteem.
https://twitter.com/tshep42/status/821456815233896449
Mind you, it is pretty parky out. Who'd want to catch cold?
https://twitter.com/PerryUndem/status/821400304285601794
Here's NY times article on the poll which also reports the same as Reuters - in fact the article is a bit more detailed: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/upshot/republican-men-say-its-a-better-time-to-be-a-woman-than-a-man.html?smid=tw-upshotnyt&smtyp=cur
Indeed, It often seems that migrants are often disliked for getting ahead while native Britons moan about how unfair it all is.
This would give her a big enough majority to pivot toward a softer Brexit during the Euro-fudge stage.
I recant because she just seems a bit frit.
Which is a shame because she and we are being held hostage by the Brextard gang, cheered on by the slavering proto-fascists in the Mail, and enabled by the equivocating self-hatred of the Corbynistas.
It just makes sense to get an early GE under her belt, if only to shut the 'no mandate' folk up.
Lifting the price controls so the government no longer sets the price of bread.
Allowing competition on broadcast TV, while many on the left thought ITV & the BBC couldn't be improved - they got complacent.
Raising the personal allowance so those on low wages don't pay income tax.
I remember the old days, when 'vapid bilge' was the strongest sentiment ever expressed!