politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn the early favourite in the Labour leadership contest
Comments
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Realityegrabcocque said:
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)blackburn63 said:
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
Ms May: Sorry George but I have to make a clean break with th past. So no choice but you have to go.
There will be a job in a couple of years when it's all died down.
George: Thanks Theresa.. I need a break.0 -
If he puts his mind to it he will do absolutely fine.JosiasJessop said:
He may be smarter and more calculating than people think: that does not mean that he's in any way competent or suitable for the job he's been given.Charles said:
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.IanB2 said:
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...
These days Foreign Secretary is basically an sinecure anyway. Being the public face of things while the real work gets done behind the scenes and in bilaterals at the PM level.0 -
Owen Smith's (Who he?) 'Back To The Future' line for the EU will be popular in London and as that's where half the members reside, it may help him against Jezza. Not so sure with the Northern heartlands (or Wales) when it comes to GE 2017.
The split is developing.0 -
@guardian: 'Maybe the Brits are just having us on': the world reacts to Boris Johnson as foreign minister https://t.co/632vBzNFlJ0
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Well said.Polruan said:
I agree with you that the PLP is fairly broad-based, though the proportion that seems to be marginally to the right of May's professed position in yesterday's speech remains a concern. But it's a big step from "Labour should pursue power through Parliamentary means" to "Labour should undertake this through a system of representative democracy whereby the parliamentary party treats the views of its membership as purely advisory". I dont buy the Kinnock line that Labour's parliamentary focus gives the MPs a veto over the leadership, although I'd agree that in most circumstances the leader should recognise that it's time to look for a compromise way out if the level of confidence is so low.SouthamObserver said:
Movement, yes; party, no. In a Parliamentary party no leader can lead without the confidence of his/her MPs. You are sensible enough to concede that those 172 MPs (plus others, it is now clear) are not all right wing Blairites; they encompass all strands of thought outside the hard left. If members vote for Corbyn once more despite knowing that, then they are making a very clear decision about what they believe Labour's priority should be. And mass deselection of MPs will have to follow, along with new rules on annual reselection of all Labour candidates from thereon in.Polruan said:
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)SouthamObserver said:
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
In this case a leadership election (which I think Corbyn will lose) is the right outcome as we aren't in normal circumstances. Effectively the MPs are asking the membership "now that you know how strongly we object to the policies and personalities you voted for last year, do you *still* want us to follow them?" If the answer is "yes" then I agree, it's going to get messy.0 -
You should read David Davis's application essay on conhome... As he states now is a time for researching and asking people what they need... When we've done that and know what we want then we can start serious negotiation..Scott_P said:@dominicoc: Hammond on @BBCr4today "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." Big nod to the City
So when the Three Brexiteers come back with no access???
Reading a few comments from researchers in Universities it seems that being attached to Europe isn't actually what most of them want. All decent research is funded via other routes and you only go to Europe when all other funding routes have been exhausted. You then have to combine with other countries who may not actually bother to do that much for the money. The best example I saw was the one week cruise round Greek Islands on a boat that the Greek's had spent their share of the research budget on. That was all the Greeks provided as they didn't actually do any research...0 -
They are reacting with "panic"? Ridiculous.Scott_P said:@guardian: 'Maybe the Brits are just having us on': the world reacts to Boris Johnson as foreign minister https://t.co/632vBzNFlJ
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Any job would have been a demotion. Even remaining as CoE. This is because Osborne was also the chief strategist of Cam's government, spending as much time if not more in meetings at No.10 guiding the whole thing, than at No.11.madasafish said:
Realityegrabcocque said:
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)blackburn63 said:
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
snipDecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Ms May: Sorry George but I have to make a clean break with th past. So no choice but you have to go.
There will be a job in a couple of years when it's all died down.
George: Thanks Theresa.. I need a break.
That role ended on 24th June.0 -
We haven't left the EUPClipp said:
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.AndrewSpencer said:
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
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He also took Britain into the European Union, so I don't think he ranks that highly!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, Claudius, from fuzzy memory, was pretty good but he also benefited by having Caligula as predecessor and Nero as successor. Not hard to look good when both the chaps either side of you are off their heads.
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@Maomentum_: Please that Corbyn has appointed @RichardBurgon to the vacant Shadow Minister for Placards and Stickers role.0
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I was contemplating that earlier, seemed like he was in on it to a certain extent. He knew his time was up once Cameron went.DecrepitJohnL said:
My thesis is that May and Osborne arranged this stunt for reasons that are as yet unclear.CarlottaVance said:
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?0 -
Cross over on the labour leadership market?0
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It was mooted that Osborne would replace Hague as Foreign Secretary in 2013 or thereabouts. Presumably, if Osborne still had his heart set on the job, Cameron would have appointed him after GE2015.PlatoSaid said:
Commentators on Sky suggesting Osborne & Co hoped he'd get ForSec.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....0 -
I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?0
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It does give a backup plan if things go wrong. But I suspect its more clean break, give Osbourne the chance to make money elsewhere and possibly comeback down the line if:-DecrepitJohnL said:
My thesis is that May and Osborne arranged this stunt for reasons that are as yet unclear.CarlottaVance said:
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?
a) he wants to
or
b) needs must...
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Morning all
We'll see if Owen Smith turns out to be a serious contender. IF, and it's a big if, he is able to topple Corbyn, the Conservatives would be wise to take him very seriously.
Nonetheless, the Conservatives are having their own fun it would seem. With the cool light of day, I realise Boris's appointment as FS is part of the "outward, positive, confident" image May is looking to portray during and after the process of leaving the EU.
Not so much Gunboat diplomacy as Funboat diplomacy as we imagine Boris showboating round Latin America eating something interesting here, getting stuck on a wire somewhere else. His punishment will be to smile endlessly for Britain and take whatever humiliation and photo ops come this way while the adults get on with the real work elsewhere.
The promotion of Amber Rudd is noteworthy - I'm supposing she will be Continuity May at the Home Office. Labour might think she could be a big prize at the next election - I think they need a 4 or maybe 4.5% swing which isn't inconceivable.
A much more radical upheaval than 1990 in terms of the top jobs and, one suspects, the next level down and it will be interesting to see who the winners and losers will be.0 -
Osborne was 'the power behind the (Cameron) throne'.DecrepitJohnL said:
My thesis is that May and Osborne arranged this stunt for reasons that are as yet unclear.CarlottaVance said:
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?
May had to be clear that was no longer the case.
He may well be back in a couple of years - but his shadow PM-ship needs to be dissolved before that happens..0 -
Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.0 -
I'm always somewhat amused by critical views of @Scott_Pblackburn63 said:
Do you ever actually leave the house and engage with people? You ought to give it a try.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
PB isn't an echo chamber for any one view. He fights his corner and other are free to do the same. The site is much richer for such diversity.
Good lord, we even allow turnip farmers on PB and the odd, very odd peer of the realm too.0 -
You need to wait for us to leave the EU and then ask the chancellor. He can spend the money we save on whatever priorities the government decided upon and you can then approve or disapprove of it at the ballot box rather than having no say on it.PClipp said:
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.AndrewSpencer said:
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
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Most of the criticism in that piece relates to people worried he's leading on the Brexit negotiations.Scott_P said:@guardian: 'Maybe the Brits are just having us on': the world reacts to Boris Johnson as foreign minister https://t.co/632vBzNFlJ
Which he isn't.0 -
That, my friend, is the circle David Davis and his team will be attempting to square during the forthcoming negotiations.stjohn said:I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
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That is the presumption, but since we haven't really had an consultations yet we don't know how much room for fudge there is, the suggestion is that it might become more a "fettered" freedom of movement (need a job, NHS insurance or whatever) in exchange for more money, or other favours. Lots of other countries are not to wild about unlimited people arriving looking for jobs so there is certainly room for agreement there.stjohn said:I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
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It seems that Mike, as ever, grasps the politics of Smith's second referendum gambit! Some on here were somewhat slow on the uptake last night!0
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If you want conflations, I am reading Wolf Hall and identifying Henry VIII as an accidental Brexiter egged on by UKIPy Boleyns. Doesn't repeat itself, sometimes rhymes.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.0 -
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You're right. One was a pan-continental monolithic entity with unelected leaders who showed little understanding of or interest in the people of Britain. The other was the Roman Empire.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.0 -
Agreed. I have very much warmed to Scott these past few months – he makes some good points at times, often pointing out the ridiculousness of certain politicians with a well placed tweet or reference.JackW said:
I'm always somewhat amused by critical views of @Scott_Pblackburn63 said:
Do you ever actually leave the house and engage with people? You ought to give it a try.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
PB isn't an echo chamber for any one view. He fights his corner and other are free to do the same. The site is much richer for such diversity.
Good lord, we even allow turnip farmers on PB and the odd, very odd peer of the realm too.0 -
Apparently there is a IPSOS MORI poll taken 8th - 11th July, Lib Dems on 11% and UKIP on 8%.
How long since Lib Dems in 3rd place?0 -
Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.Charles said:
If he puts his mind to it he will do absolutely fine.JosiasJessop said:
He may be smarter and more calculating than people think: that does not mean that he's in any way competent or suitable for the job he's been given.Charles said:
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.IanB2 said:
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...
These days Foreign Secretary is basically an sinecure anyway. Being the public face of things while the real work gets done behind the scenes and in bilaterals at the PM level.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?0 -
Thank you Sir.JackW said:PB isn't an echo chamber for any one view. The site is much richer for such diversity.
Good lord, we even allow turnip farmers on PB and the odd, very odd peer of the realm too.
And for those who really don't want to read anything I post, there is a handy feature they can use. My name appears directly before every post...0 -
These sour bitter old remainers really need to get over it. I empathise. I remember what it was like in 1997, when every negative economic outlook or social problem immediately became the fault of the labour government. "Leave" was not a government. It could not make commitments, people did not vote to endorse the "leave" campaign we voted to whether or not we leave the EU.AndrewSpencer said:
You need to wait for us to leave the EU and then ask the chancellor. He can spend the money we save on whatever priorities the government decided upon and you can then approve or disapprove of it at the ballot box rather than having no say on it.PClipp said:
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.AndrewSpencer said:
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
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May wasn't in a position to sack Osborne until she became PM late yesterday afternoon and then did so in short measure.DecrepitJohnL said:May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
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Owen Smith appears to change his opinion / stance on things as and when it suits his ambitions.
I am not so sure he is of the 'soft left'.
In 2006 he was fairly open that the Iraq war was not wrong and some sort of socialist crusade, sold himself as a blairite and worked lobbying government for Pfizier.
Now he is putting himself forward as the anti austerity and anti Iraq man?
Said he only challenged Corbyn because of recent events but supposedly had been trying to gather signatures for last six months.
He appears quite slippery, his chances depend on how much this comes across in my opinion.0 -
The six original members are much more Charlemagne's Holy Roman Empire than the original one. There's even a Charlemagne prize given out by the city of Aachen and a youth one organised jointly with the EP.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.0 -
Were are in the divorce phase, lots of nasty things yet to be said . costing billions, before an unamicable settlement is reached that satisfies neither party.kjohnw said:
We haven't left the EUPClipp said:
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.AndrewSpencer said:
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
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Why? Why have you got this obsession with 'The French'? They are nice folk and our allies. This idea that upsetting colleagues and allies from other countries is mad, and it is not limited to you, I'm sad to say.Morris_Dancer said:Hmm. If the French are annoyed by Boris' appointment that suggests it may have been a good move.
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Scott_P said:
@Maomentum_: Please that Corbyn has appointed @RichardBurgon to the vacant Shadow Minister for Placards and Stickers role.
Chortle0 -
Chamberlain was also non Oxbridge, he went to Birmingham but he also went to Rugby firstDecrepitJohnL said:
Even Churchill was looked on with deep suspicion, and for the first years of the war got a better reception from Labour MPs than Conservatives.HYUFD said:
If you went to a major public school you can get away with being non-Oxbridge with the establishment as most went to a top public school before Oxbridge, Churchill was a non graduate but he went to Harrow for example. May is the first state educated Tory PM since Major but she did go to Oxford unlike himDecrepitJohnL said:
Sadly it is true. Owen Smith is not an Oxford man so will be held in contempt by all the Oxbridge types in the media and wider Establishment. Jim Callaghan, John Major -- not Oxford, not cut from the right cloth. Hmm. Where did Andrea Leadsom go to school? Wikipedia says Warwick. Well, then.daodao said:
Sadly, Owen Smith has 1 attribute that will ensure that he will never be PM, even if he wins the Labour leadership - remember the contempt in which Neil Kinnock was held east of Offa's Dyke.Polruan said:
My gut feeling is that the Labour right is now desperate enough for a candidate with what they call leadership that they will swing behind him even if he sticks to a policy agenda that will be left enough for many of Corbyn's supporters who are looking for something more distinctive than simply "not the Tories". This is a big change from last summer when any policy pronouncements with a hint of socialism about them were seen as too dangerous for a credible leader.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
Mr. Spencer, aye but there's no Charlemagne. It's froth without beer.
Mr. X, indeed, it's hardly the first time we've opted out of a European ideology
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On a practical negotiating level - the faster we're out of the blocks wooing non-EU trade, the greater the pressure on Brussels to respond positively.Indigo said:
That is the presumption, but since we haven't really had an consultations yet we don't know how much room for fudge there is, the suggestion is that it might become more a "fettered" freedom of movement (need a job, NHS insurance or whatever) in exchange for more money, or other favours. Lots of other countries are not to wild about unlimited people arriving looking for jobs so there is certainly room for agreement there.stjohn said:I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
Looking forward to more detail on the division of labour between Fox and Davis.0 -
It's nine o'clock. Isn't it time our new Prime Minister got to work and made more Cabinet appointments?0
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No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.JosiasJessop said:
Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.Charles said:
If he puts his mind to it he will do absolutely fine.JosiasJessop said:
He may be smarter and more calculating than people think: that does not mean that he's in any way competent or suitable for the job he's been given.Charles said:
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.IanB2 said:
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...
These days Foreign Secretary is basically an sinecure anyway. Being the public face of things while the real work gets done behind the scenes and in bilaterals at the PM level.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
edit: I believe if it's not finished by the end of 2017 then it't can't be built until 2024 (or something) due to the Thames Tideway work meaning nothing else can be built over the river.0 -
I would find it amazing if they were actually upset about Boris' appointment. If they are they need to get a grip.Jobabob said:
Why? Why have you got this obsession with 'The French'? They are nice folk and our allies. This idea that upsetting colleagues and allies from other countries is mad, and it is not limited to you, I'm sad to say.Morris_Dancer said:Hmm. If the French are annoyed by Boris' appointment that suggests it may have been a good move.
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Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.0 -
Corbyn will win. The simple truth is look at the worst possible outcome for the party, and back that. The Labour Party will always choose the path that is to its greatest disadvantage.SouthamObserver said:
Fair enough. I do see Corbyn as the impediment. Except at the edges - as is the case with all parties - there is clearly a programme and plan that all could unite around. As you observe, the differences policies wise between Smith and JC are minimal (except Trident). I suspect they will go head to head, but that Corbyn will win. Looks like we agree on what that will lead to.Polruan said:
SNIPSouthamObserver said:
Movement, yes; party, no. In a Parliamentary partyLabour candidates from thereon in.Polruan said:
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)SouthamObserver said:
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
As for May, it's always best to judge politicians on what they do, not what they say!
Back Corbyn.0 -
@bbclaurak: Owen Smith interview from 2006..... ah the internet https://t.co/t9oRjOw3nhreverend_cat said:Owen Smith appears to change his opinion / stance on things as and when it suits his ambitions.
I am not so sure he is of the 'soft left'.
In 2006 he was fairly open that the Iraq war was not wrong and some sort of socialist crusade, sold himself as a blairite and worked lobbying government for Pfizier.0 -
Re Osborne and US ambassador; I can think of one previous high ranking Conservative who might have been PM and was sent to the US to keep him out of UK political affairs and to bat for Britain - Lord Halifax.0
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May’s new government, I expect to see a huge promotion for Leadsom will appear on her CV.0
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No May said she would 'control' freedom of movement, only Leadsom promised to end itstjohn said:I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
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Yes, it has been clear for sometime that this entire Brexit opera is a very well-delivered, elaborate spoof. The flaw in the plan is that even the light entertainment loving British cannot suspend their disbelief for much longer. I suspect we've got a few more days left, before the curtain comes down and we go back to normal. I was taken in for a while.Scott_P said:@guardian: 'Maybe the Brits are just having us on': the world reacts to Boris Johnson as foreign minister https://t.co/632vBzNFlJ
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fnarrrrrrrrr. Should know a thing or two about stiffening up his support, eh?reverend_cat said:
I am not so sure he is of the 'soft left'.
... he worked lobbying government for Pfizier...
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@MrTCHarris: Have Twitter's political experts figured out yet why Theresa May wanted the country's most popular politician in her cabinet yet?
Apart from anything else, it could just be a giant magic trick.
Watch what Boris is doing over there so you don't notice what is really happening over here...
It might be an act of genius. Or not.0 -
The French have an election next year, anything said publicly is with an ear to domestic consumption, and not necessarily to be taken at face value.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.0 -
OK. I did try to find a quote. "End freedom of movement" came from a Daily Mail headline.HYUFD said:
No May said she would 'control' freedom of movement, only Leadsom promised to end itstjohn said:I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
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Halifax turned down the role of PM several months before heading to Washington. He was removed from the Foreign Office as soon as Chamberlain's death removed his key protector and allowed Churchill to promote Eden instead.Verulamius said:Re Osborne and US ambassador; I can think of one previous high ranking Conservative who might have been PM and was sent to the US to keep him out of UK political affairs and to bat for Britain - Lord Halifax.
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But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.Charles said:
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.JosiasJessop said:Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.0 -
But he might have to wait a bit for that job, Sir Kim Darroch only presented his credentials this January.Verulamius said:Re Osborne and US ambassador; I can think of one previous high ranking Conservative who might have been PM and was sent to the US to keep him out of UK political affairs and to bat for Britain - Lord Halifax.
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So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.0 -
Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.0 -
Of all the surprise appts so far, I honestly never expected to see Fox or Davis back in the Cabinet.
May is certainly going for an older guard. The average age of Cabinet so far has risen from 50 > 58 according to Sky.0 -
Mr Bob,
"So you are calling them frogs now?"
Along with 99% of the British population. Although I don't count Londoners in that grouping. I assume you must live there?0 -
I think it might have cost him his majority in 2010....perdix said:
Can't agree with your headbanger view of Cameron and the Lisbon Treaty. Cameron had every expectation that he would win an imminent election and that Lisbon would not be ratified at that time. His main mistake was not to qualify his promise. But William Hague did at the Tory Conference.Indigo said:
Only membership stupid enough to not see that its complete hot air. Look at the damage Lisbon did to Cast Iron Dave for promising to do something he was subsequently unable to do, and had a reasonable expectation at the time he said it of knowing this was the case.HYUFD said:
May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membershipIndigo said:
But it's nonsense. The EU can't be bound by the result of a UK referendum, the choice will be accept whatever the deal is, or don't and leave without a deal, which means WTO MFN.HYUFD said:By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
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Oh FFS don't take yourself so seriously, or do you get this uptight every time a Frenchman refers to les rosbif. In the dictionary it is labeled "(Humourous)" but that necessitates a sense of humour. It's no more than good natured joshing, there are far more virulent things to call people you actually don't like.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.0 -
I hadn't realise it did not allow cyclists. Kill it if so.JosiasJessop said:
But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.Charles said:
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.JosiasJessop said:Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.0 -
It really doesn't matter what the French think about Boris, or the anyone else for that matter. The job is there as a sop to the Brexit right, the important parts of it have been given to more serious politicians, Davis and Fox. Boris is there to go and speak French and Latin to the rest of the world and do what Boris did so well for London. Drum up business and show that we are still an open country. Like him or hate him, he is cultured, educated and can turn a phrase. His reputation may be a little bit bruised, but once the next major international event takes place he will be back to doing what he does best. Boris will Boris his way through the world, and that's no bad thing.0
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RobD said:
I would find it amazing if they were actually upset about Boris' appointment. If they are they need to get a grip.Jobabob said:
Why? Why have you got this obsession with 'The French'? They are nice folk and our allies. This idea that upsetting colleagues and allies from other countries is mad, and it is not limited to you, I'm sad to say.Morris_Dancer said:Hmm. If the French are annoyed by Boris' appointment that suggests it may have been a good move.
I think they find it farcical rather than upsetting!0 -
BoJo as FS is interesting.
Probably the most senior post you could realistically give him. But also perhaps the post where a faux pas would be a big deal and you can then sack him?
TM's position is not all that strong... she has a narrow majority and if we go into recession, then Tory MPs may start grumbling about how long it is taking to leave/get a trade deal etc... we should have gone for a Brexiteer all along....
Liam Fox has played his hand very well. To get a new senior position just five years after resigning in scandal is impressive.
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Monsieur le Bob, je ne deteste pas la France, mais j'aime les rosbifs.
Afraid that's as far as my memory of French takes me. Frogs and rosbifs is just gentle teasing not some sort of vile slur. It's the same as mutual mockery of poms and convicts between the UK and Oz. For that matter, I enjoy two-way insults about who understands classical history [spoiler: the answer is me] on this site.
Not everything has to be scrupulously polite, and nor should it be.0 -
I can't see Fox lasting. He is a rank incompetent.rkrkrk said:BoJo as FS is interesting.
Probably the most senior post you could realistically give him. But also perhaps the post where a faux pas would be a big deal and you can then sack him?
TM's position is not all that strong... she has a narrow majority and if we go into recession, then Tory MPs may start grumbling about how long it is taking to leave/get a trade deal etc... we should have gone for a Brexiteer all along....
Liam Fox has played his hand very well. To get a new senior position just five years after resigning in scandal is impressive.0 -
Grayling for Chief Whip basically her right hand man ? Is it possible to be Chief Whip and DPM ?JackW said:Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
There were suggestions in the papers that there is going to be more restructuring of departments today as well.0 -
Boris does all of those things, regularly. He is the most cultured and open of our politicians. He will be a very good FS, especially now that the hard work parts have been handed to Davis and Fox.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.0 -
It's dull, to be honest. Bloody frogs. It's the language of the 1970s. Get out there and meet people and cut back on the narrow mindedness.Indigo said:
Oh FFS don't take yourself so seriously, or do you get this uptight every time a Frenchman refers to les rosbif. In the dictionary it is labeled "(Humourous)" but that necessitates a sense of humour. It's no more than good natured joshing, there are far more virulent things to call people you actually don't like.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.0 -
Do you want to fight to Remain - or do you want a career? (Sunday Telegraph headline)grabcocque said:
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)blackburn63 said:
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....0 -
Read elsewhere that Boris played a backchannel role between May/Leadsom teams in the days before the result. Grayling of course was a big May man in the last few days and a frontman for her.JackW said:Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
For a man written off as a complete idiot by many on here for years - if he became DPM, that'd be rather entertaining.
Hunt's also been out and about before the cameras. He's previously said he didn't want another portfolio after Health - but who knows anything anymore. We've shaken the political kaleidoscope.0 -
They'll have to push their bikes over, with steps and a lift up (I think due to the restricted space on the northern side). That is, they'll be allowed to when it's not closed to the public for 'events'.Jobabob said:
I hadn't realise it did not allow cyclists. Kill it if so.JosiasJessop said:
But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.Charles said:
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.JosiasJessop said:Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.0 -
Come on, it's just a bit of fun that gets even more hilarious with repetition.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
You can also be sure that its practitioners take being called little Englanders with complete equanimity.
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Given that Fox is now effectively trade secretary, what's the need for BIS, she might just get rid of it altogether and hand out the work to other departments, though she is said to favour an "industrial strategy" so she may remake it.Indigo said:
Grayling for Chief Whip basically her right hand man ? Is it possible to be Chief Whip and DPM ?JackW said:Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
There were suggestions in the papers that there is going to be more restructuring of departments today as well.0 -
I said last night that to his credit he is a cultured guy who speaks fluent French and Italian and is a francophile and lover of Europe, its food, wine and women. That's good. But he is also very accident prone and he will make an embarrassing mistake at some point and yet again will require sacking. He is also bone idle and – as he has a young family – probably not suited to spending most of his time out of the country!MaxPB said:
Boris does all of those things, regularly. He is the most cultured and open of our politicians. He will be a very good FS, especially now that the hard work parts have been handed to Davis and Fox.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
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Exactly - The voice of reason in a town of buttermilk minds.MaxPB said:It really doesn't matter what the French think about Boris, or the anyone else for that matter. The job is there as a sop to the Brexit right, the important parts of it have been given to more serious politicians, Davis and Fox. Boris is there to go and speak French and Latin to the rest of the world and do what Boris did so well for London. Drum up business and show that we are still an open country. Like him or hate him, he is cultured, educated and can turn a phrase. His reputation may be a little bit bruised, but once the next major international event takes place he will be back to doing what he does best. Boris will Boris his way through the world, and that's no bad thing.
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Arf!!Theuniondivvie said:
Come on, it's just a bit of fun that gets even more hilarious with repetition.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
You can also be sure that its practitioners take being called little Englanders with complete equanimity.0 -
Chairman of the Con Party was being suggested for Mr Grayling yesterday. (I think everyone is just assuming he's going to get something!)JackW said:Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
Ms May seems to want to pursue a policy of cheap energy, rather than (expensive) green energy. I'm not sure Ms Leadsom would be the person for that. She seems to be onboard with the green agenda.
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Very true, thank God! Fortunately the British helped to stop the last two neo-Charlemagnes.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Spencer, aye but there's no Charlemagne. It's froth without beer.
Mr. X, indeed, it's hardly the first time we've opted out of a European ideology0 -
@BethRigby: BREAK: appointments to May's new government will start this morning at 11am0
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Strangely one is described as "Humorous" and the other as "Showing Disapproval" can't think why people might view them differently.Theuniondivvie said:
Come on, it's just a bit of fun that gets even more hilarious with repetition.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
You can also be sure that its practitioners take being called little Englanders with complete equanimity.0 -
Another shambles, then. A living, breathing manifestation of the oppressive "cyclists dismount" sign. I don't, by the way.JosiasJessop said:
They'll have to push their bikes over, with steps and a lift up (I think due to the restricted space on the northern side). That is, they'll be allowed to when it's not closed to the public for 'events'.Jobabob said:
I hadn't realise it did not allow cyclists. Kill it if so.JosiasJessop said:
But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.Charles said:
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.JosiasJessop said:Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.0 -
Mr. Divvie, the equivalent of frog is rosbif.
Your comparison is as flawed as SNP MPs whining about not being allowed to clap all the time in the Commons, then refusing to do so when Cameron left on the basis they couldn't do it every day.
Of course, one realises your desire for an Auld Alliance to be reborn may be colouring your judgement of jesting about the French 0 -
Morris_Dancer said:
Monsieur le Bob, je ne deteste pas la France, mais j'aime les rosbifs.
Afraid that's as far as my memory of French takes me. Frogs and rosbifs is just gentle teasing not some sort of vile slur. It's the same as mutual mockery of poms and convicts between the UK and Oz. For that matter, I enjoy two-way insults about who understands classical history [spoiler: the answer is me] on this site.
Not everything has to be scrupulously polite, and nor should it be.
Have you ever actually been to France? Spent any time there? At all?0 -
Which is why Mrs May has been very shrewd and handed the actual work off to those more likely to do it. Unless he has an affair with the Chinese Premier's wife then I think he'll be fine!Jobabob said:
I said last night that to his credit he is a cultured guy who speaks fluent French and Italian and is a francophile and lover of Europe, its food, wine and women. That's good. But he is also very accident prone and he will make an embarrassing mistake at some point and yet again will require sacking. He is also bone idle and – as he has a young family – probably not suited to spending most of his time out of the country!MaxPB said:
Boris does all of those things, regularly. He is the most cultured and open of our politicians. He will be a very good FS, especially now that the hard work parts have been handed to Davis and Fox.Jobabob said:
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.0 -
Aren't universities going back to Education? Or was that another rumour? We do need a DTI type role for domestic stuff/infrastructureMaxPB said:
Given that Fox is now effectively trade secretary, what's the need for BIS, she might just get rid of it altogether and hand out the work to other departments, though she is said to favour an "industrial strategy" so she may remake it.Indigo said:
Grayling for Chief Whip basically her right hand man ? Is it possible to be Chief Whip and DPM ?JackW said:Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
There were suggestions in the papers that there is going to be more restructuring of departments today as well.0 -
Mr. Bob, no. I've been on remarkably few holidays.
I've also never had the chance to meet Aurelian, not Zhuge Liang, nor even Hannibal, though I'll still pontificate on them if I want to.
For that matter, I've never even been to an F1 race 0 -
Wow, English is the lingua franca at the Quai these days?Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
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Let's hope that next major international event isn't of the major armed conflict type.MaxPB said:once the next major international event takes place he will be back to doing what he does best
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Mr Bob,
"It's dull, to be honest."
Pretentious? Moi? From Fawlty Towers circa 1970s.0 -
Mr. Spencer, to be fair, Charlemagne probably improved things, whereas Napoleon and Hitler were just after conquest.0
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