If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)
Realitye Ms May: Sorry George but I have to make a clean break with th past. So no choice but you have to go. There will be a job in a couple of years when it's all died down. George: Thanks Theresa.. I need a break.
@SouthamObserver May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.
He may be smarter and more calculating than people think: that does not mean that he's in any way competent or suitable for the job he's been given.
If he puts his mind to it he will do absolutely fine.
These days Foreign Secretary is basically an sinecure anyway. Being the public face of things while the real work gets done behind the scenes and in bilaterals at the PM level.
Owen Smith's (Who he?) 'Back To The Future' line for the EU will be popular in London and as that's where half the members reside, it may help him against Jezza. Not so sure with the Northern heartlands (or Wales) when it comes to GE 2017.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)
Movement, yes; party, no. In a Parliamentary party no leader can lead without the confidence of his/her MPs. You are sensible enough to concede that those 172 MPs (plus others, it is now clear) are not all right wing Blairites; they encompass all strands of thought outside the hard left. If members vote for Corbyn once more despite knowing that, then they are making a very clear decision about what they believe Labour's priority should be. And mass deselection of MPs will have to follow, along with new rules on annual reselection of all Labour candidates from thereon in.
I agree with you that the PLP is fairly broad-based, though the proportion that seems to be marginally to the right of May's professed position in yesterday's speech remains a concern. But it's a big step from "Labour should pursue power through Parliamentary means" to "Labour should undertake this through a system of representative democracy whereby the parliamentary party treats the views of its membership as purely advisory". I dont buy the Kinnock line that Labour's parliamentary focus gives the MPs a veto over the leadership, although I'd agree that in most circumstances the leader should recognise that it's time to look for a compromise way out if the level of confidence is so low.
In this case a leadership election (which I think Corbyn will lose) is the right outcome as we aren't in normal circumstances. Effectively the MPs are asking the membership "now that you know how strongly we object to the policies and personalities you voted for last year, do you *still* want us to follow them?" If the answer is "yes" then I agree, it's going to get messy.
@dominicoc: Hammond on @BBCr4today "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." Big nod to the City
So when the Three Brexiteers come back with no access???
You should read David Davis's application essay on conhome... As he states now is a time for researching and asking people what they need... When we've done that and know what we want then we can start serious negotiation..
Reading a few comments from researchers in Universities it seems that being attached to Europe isn't actually what most of them want. All decent research is funded via other routes and you only go to Europe when all other funding routes have been exhausted. You then have to combine with other countries who may not actually bother to do that much for the money. The best example I saw was the one week cruise round Greek Islands on a boat that the Greek's had spent their share of the research budget on. That was all the Greeks provided as they didn't actually do any research...
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
snip
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)
Realitye Ms May: Sorry George but I have to make a clean break with th past. So no choice but you have to go. There will be a job in a couple of years when it's all died down. George: Thanks Theresa.. I need a break.
Any job would have been a demotion. Even remaining as CoE. This is because Osborne was also the chief strategist of Cam's government, spending as much time if not more in meetings at No.10 guiding the whole thing, than at No.11.
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.
Mr. K, Claudius, from fuzzy memory, was pretty good but he also benefited by having Caligula as predecessor and Nero as successor. Not hard to look good when both the chaps either side of you are off their heads.
He also took Britain into the European Union, so I don't think he ranks that highly!
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?
My thesis is that May and Osborne arranged this stunt for reasons that are as yet unclear.
I was contemplating that earlier, seemed like he was in on it to a certain extent. He knew his time was up once Cameron went.
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
Commentators on Sky suggesting Osborne & Co hoped he'd get ForSec.
It was mooted that Osborne would replace Hague as Foreign Secretary in 2013 or thereabouts. Presumably, if Osborne still had his heart set on the job, Cameron would have appointed him after GE2015.
I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?
My thesis is that May and Osborne arranged this stunt for reasons that are as yet unclear.
It does give a backup plan if things go wrong. But I suspect its more clean break, give Osbourne the chance to make money elsewhere and possibly comeback down the line if:-
We'll see if Owen Smith turns out to be a serious contender. IF, and it's a big if, he is able to topple Corbyn, the Conservatives would be wise to take him very seriously.
Nonetheless, the Conservatives are having their own fun it would seem. With the cool light of day, I realise Boris's appointment as FS is part of the "outward, positive, confident" image May is looking to portray during and after the process of leaving the EU.
Not so much Gunboat diplomacy as Funboat diplomacy as we imagine Boris showboating round Latin America eating something interesting here, getting stuck on a wire somewhere else. His punishment will be to smile endlessly for Britain and take whatever humiliation and photo ops come this way while the adults get on with the real work elsewhere.
The promotion of Amber Rudd is noteworthy - I'm supposing she will be Continuity May at the Home Office. Labour might think she could be a big prize at the next election - I think they need a 4 or maybe 4.5% swing which isn't inconceivable.
A much more radical upheaval than 1990 in terms of the top jobs and, one suspects, the next level down and it will be interesting to see who the winners and losers will be.
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?
My thesis is that May and Osborne arranged this stunt for reasons that are as yet unclear.
Osborne was 'the power behind the (Cameron) throne'.
May had to be clear that was no longer the case.
He may well be back in a couple of years - but his shadow PM-ship needs to be dissolved before that happens..
Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
Do you ever actually leave the house and engage with people? You ought to give it a try.
I'm always somewhat amused by critical views of @Scott_P
PB isn't an echo chamber for any one view. He fights his corner and other are free to do the same. The site is much richer for such diversity.
Good lord, we even allow turnip farmers on PB and the odd, very odd peer of the realm too.
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.
You need to wait for us to leave the EU and then ask the chancellor. He can spend the money we save on whatever priorities the government decided upon and you can then approve or disapprove of it at the ballot box rather than having no say on it.
I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
That, my friend, is the circle David Davis and his team will be attempting to square during the forthcoming negotiations.
I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
That is the presumption, but since we haven't really had an consultations yet we don't know how much room for fudge there is, the suggestion is that it might become more a "fettered" freedom of movement (need a job, NHS insurance or whatever) in exchange for more money, or other favours. Lots of other countries are not to wild about unlimited people arriving looking for jobs so there is certainly room for agreement there.
Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.
If you want conflations, I am reading Wolf Hall and identifying Henry VIII as an accidental Brexiter egged on by UKIPy Boleyns. Doesn't repeat itself, sometimes rhymes.
Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.
You're right. One was a pan-continental monolithic entity with unelected leaders who showed little understanding of or interest in the people of Britain. The other was the Roman Empire.
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
Do you ever actually leave the house and engage with people? You ought to give it a try.
I'm always somewhat amused by critical views of @Scott_P
PB isn't an echo chamber for any one view. He fights his corner and other are free to do the same. The site is much richer for such diversity.
Good lord, we even allow turnip farmers on PB and the odd, very odd peer of the realm too.
Agreed. I have very much warmed to Scott these past few months – he makes some good points at times, often pointing out the ridiculousness of certain politicians with a well placed tweet or reference.
@SouthamObserver May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.
He may be smarter and more calculating than people think: that does not mean that he's in any way competent or suitable for the job he's been given.
If he puts his mind to it he will do absolutely fine.
These days Foreign Secretary is basically an sinecure anyway. Being the public face of things while the real work gets done behind the scenes and in bilaterals at the PM level.
Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.
You need to wait for us to leave the EU and then ask the chancellor. He can spend the money we save on whatever priorities the government decided upon and you can then approve or disapprove of it at the ballot box rather than having no say on it.
These sour bitter old remainers really need to get over it. I empathise. I remember what it was like in 1997, when every negative economic outlook or social problem immediately became the fault of the labour government. "Leave" was not a government. It could not make commitments, people did not vote to endorse the "leave" campaign we voted to whether or not we leave the EU.
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
May wasn't in a position to sack Osborne until she became PM late yesterday afternoon and then did so in short measure.
Owen Smith appears to change his opinion / stance on things as and when it suits his ambitions.
I am not so sure he is of the 'soft left'.
In 2006 he was fairly open that the Iraq war was not wrong and some sort of socialist crusade, sold himself as a blairite and worked lobbying government for Pfizier.
Now he is putting himself forward as the anti austerity and anti Iraq man?
Said he only challenged Corbyn because of recent events but supposedly had been trying to gather signatures for last six months.
He appears quite slippery, his chances depend on how much this comes across in my opinion.
Mr. Charles, for conflating the Roman Empire with the EU I hereby sentence you to perpetual exile in ConHome.
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.
The six original members are much more Charlemagne's Holy Roman Empire than the original one. There's even a Charlemagne prize given out by the city of Aachen and a youth one organised jointly with the EP.
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.
We haven't left the EU
Were are in the divorce phase, lots of nasty things yet to be said . costing billions, before an unamicable settlement is reached that satisfies neither party.
Hmm. If the French are annoyed by Boris' appointment that suggests it may have been a good move.
Why? Why have you got this obsession with 'The French'? They are nice folk and our allies. This idea that upsetting colleagues and allies from other countries is mad, and it is not limited to you, I'm sad to say.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
My gut feeling is that the Labour right is now desperate enough for a candidate with what they call leadership that they will swing behind him even if he sticks to a policy agenda that will be left enough for many of Corbyn's supporters who are looking for something more distinctive than simply "not the Tories". This is a big change from last summer when any policy pronouncements with a hint of socialism about them were seen as too dangerous for a credible leader.
Sadly, Owen Smith has 1 attribute that will ensure that he will never be PM, even if he wins the Labour leadership - remember the contempt in which Neil Kinnock was held east of Offa's Dyke.
Sadly it is true. Owen Smith is not an Oxford man so will be held in contempt by all the Oxbridge types in the media and wider Establishment. Jim Callaghan, John Major -- not Oxford, not cut from the right cloth. Hmm. Where did Andrea Leadsom go to school? Wikipedia says Warwick. Well, then.
If you went to a major public school you can get away with being non-Oxbridge with the establishment as most went to a top public school before Oxbridge, Churchill was a non graduate but he went to Harrow for example. May is the first state educated Tory PM since Major but she did go to Oxford unlike him
Even Churchill was looked on with deep suspicion, and for the first years of the war got a better reception from Labour MPs than Conservatives.
Chamberlain was also non Oxbridge, he went to Birmingham but he also went to Rugby first
I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
That is the presumption, but since we haven't really had an consultations yet we don't know how much room for fudge there is, the suggestion is that it might become more a "fettered" freedom of movement (need a job, NHS insurance or whatever) in exchange for more money, or other favours. Lots of other countries are not to wild about unlimited people arriving looking for jobs so there is certainly room for agreement there.
On a practical negotiating level - the faster we're out of the blocks wooing non-EU trade, the greater the pressure on Brussels to respond positively.
Looking forward to more detail on the division of labour between Fox and Davis.
@SouthamObserver May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.
He may be smarter and more calculating than people think: that does not mean that he's in any way competent or suitable for the job he's been given.
If he puts his mind to it he will do absolutely fine.
These days Foreign Secretary is basically an sinecure anyway. Being the public face of things while the real work gets done behind the scenes and in bilaterals at the PM level.
Sorry Charles, but I fear you're wrong.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
edit: I believe if it's not finished by the end of 2017 then it't can't be built until 2024 (or something) due to the Thames Tideway work meaning nothing else can be built over the river.
Hmm. If the French are annoyed by Boris' appointment that suggests it may have been a good move.
Why? Why have you got this obsession with 'The French'? They are nice folk and our allies. This idea that upsetting colleagues and allies from other countries is mad, and it is not limited to you, I'm sad to say.
I would find it amazing if they were actually upset about Boris' appointment. If they are they need to get a grip.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)
Movement, yes; party, no. In a Parliamentary partyLabour candidates from thereon in.
SNIP
Fair enough. I do see Corbyn as the impediment. Except at the edges - as is the case with all parties - there is clearly a programme and plan that all could unite around. As you observe, the differences policies wise between Smith and JC are minimal (except Trident). I suspect they will go head to head, but that Corbyn will win. Looks like we agree on what that will lead to.
As for May, it's always best to judge politicians on what they do, not what they say!
Corbyn will win. The simple truth is look at the worst possible outcome for the party, and back that. The Labour Party will always choose the path that is to its greatest disadvantage.
Owen Smith appears to change his opinion / stance on things as and when it suits his ambitions.
I am not so sure he is of the 'soft left'.
In 2006 he was fairly open that the Iraq war was not wrong and some sort of socialist crusade, sold himself as a blairite and worked lobbying government for Pfizier.
Re Osborne and US ambassador; I can think of one previous high ranking Conservative who might have been PM and was sent to the US to keep him out of UK political affairs and to bat for Britain - Lord Halifax.
I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
No May said she would 'control' freedom of movement, only Leadsom promised to end it
@guardian: 'Maybe the Brits are just having us on': the world reacts to Boris Johnson as foreign minister https://t.co/632vBzNFlJ
Yes, it has been clear for sometime that this entire Brexit opera is a very well-delivered, elaborate spoof. The flaw in the plan is that even the light entertainment loving British cannot suspend their disbelief for much longer. I suspect we've got a few more days left, before the curtain comes down and we go back to normal. I was taken in for a while.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
The French have an election next year, anything said publicly is with an ear to domestic consumption, and not necessarily to be taken at face value.
I don't get it. May is quoted as saying we must end freedom of movement of EU citizens. Hammond says, "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." These two positions are incompatible aren't they?
No May said she would 'control' freedom of movement, only Leadsom promised to end it
OK. I did try to find a quote. "End freedom of movement" came from a Daily Mail headline.
Re Osborne and US ambassador; I can think of one previous high ranking Conservative who might have been PM and was sent to the US to keep him out of UK political affairs and to bat for Britain - Lord Halifax.
Halifax turned down the role of PM several months before heading to Washington. He was removed from the Foreign Office as soon as Chamberlain's death removed his key protector and allowed Churchill to promote Eden instead.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.
Re Osborne and US ambassador; I can think of one previous high ranking Conservative who might have been PM and was sent to the US to keep him out of UK political affairs and to bat for Britain - Lord Halifax.
But he might have to wait a bit for that job, Sir Kim Darroch only presented his credentials this January.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
But it's nonsense. The EU can't be bound by the result of a UK referendum, the choice will be accept whatever the deal is, or don't and leave without a deal, which means WTO MFN.
May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membership
Only membership stupid enough to not see that its complete hot air. Look at the damage Lisbon did to Cast Iron Dave for promising to do something he was subsequently unable to do, and had a reasonable expectation at the time he said it of knowing this was the case.
Can't agree with your headbanger view of Cameron and the Lisbon Treaty. Cameron had every expectation that he would win an imminent election and that Lisbon would not be ratified at that time. His main mistake was not to qualify his promise. But William Hague did at the Tory Conference.
I think it might have cost him his majority in 2010....
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Oh FFS don't take yourself so seriously, or do you get this uptight every time a Frenchman refers to les rosbif. In the dictionary it is labeled "(Humourous)" but that necessitates a sense of humour. It's no more than good natured joshing, there are far more virulent things to call people you actually don't like.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.
I hadn't realise it did not allow cyclists. Kill it if so.
It really doesn't matter what the French think about Boris, or the anyone else for that matter. The job is there as a sop to the Brexit right, the important parts of it have been given to more serious politicians, Davis and Fox. Boris is there to go and speak French and Latin to the rest of the world and do what Boris did so well for London. Drum up business and show that we are still an open country. Like him or hate him, he is cultured, educated and can turn a phrase. His reputation may be a little bit bruised, but once the next major international event takes place he will be back to doing what he does best. Boris will Boris his way through the world, and that's no bad thing.
Hmm. If the French are annoyed by Boris' appointment that suggests it may have been a good move.
Why? Why have you got this obsession with 'The French'? They are nice folk and our allies. This idea that upsetting colleagues and allies from other countries is mad, and it is not limited to you, I'm sad to say.
I would find it amazing if they were actually upset about Boris' appointment. If they are they need to get a grip.
I think they find it farcical rather than upsetting!
BoJo as FS is interesting. Probably the most senior post you could realistically give him. But also perhaps the post where a faux pas would be a big deal and you can then sack him?
TM's position is not all that strong... she has a narrow majority and if we go into recession, then Tory MPs may start grumbling about how long it is taking to leave/get a trade deal etc... we should have gone for a Brexiteer all along....
Liam Fox has played his hand very well. To get a new senior position just five years after resigning in scandal is impressive.
Monsieur le Bob, je ne deteste pas la France, mais j'aime les rosbifs.
Afraid that's as far as my memory of French takes me. Frogs and rosbifs is just gentle teasing not some sort of vile slur. It's the same as mutual mockery of poms and convicts between the UK and Oz. For that matter, I enjoy two-way insults about who understands classical history [spoiler: the answer is me] on this site.
Not everything has to be scrupulously polite, and nor should it be.
BoJo as FS is interesting. Probably the most senior post you could realistically give him. But also perhaps the post where a faux pas would be a big deal and you can then sack him?
TM's position is not all that strong... she has a narrow majority and if we go into recession, then Tory MPs may start grumbling about how long it is taking to leave/get a trade deal etc... we should have gone for a Brexiteer all along....
Liam Fox has played his hand very well. To get a new senior position just five years after resigning in scandal is impressive.
I can't see Fox lasting. He is a rank incompetent.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Boris does all of those things, regularly. He is the most cultured and open of our politicians. He will be a very good FS, especially now that the hard work parts have been handed to Davis and Fox.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Oh FFS don't take yourself so seriously, or do you get this uptight every time a Frenchman refers to les rosbif. In the dictionary it is labeled "(Humourous)" but that necessitates a sense of humour. It's no more than good natured joshing, there are far more virulent things to call people you actually don't like.
It's dull, to be honest. Bloody frogs. It's the language of the 1970s. Get out there and meet people and cut back on the narrow mindedness.
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)
Do you want to fight to Remain - or do you want a career? (Sunday Telegraph headline)
Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
Read elsewhere that Boris played a backchannel role between May/Leadsom teams in the days before the result. Grayling of course was a big May man in the last few days and a frontman for her.
For a man written off as a complete idiot by many on here for years - if he became DPM, that'd be rather entertaining.
Hunt's also been out and about before the cameras. He's previously said he didn't want another portfolio after Health - but who knows anything anymore. We've shaken the political kaleidoscope.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.
I hadn't realise it did not allow cyclists. Kill it if so.
They'll have to push their bikes over, with steps and a lift up (I think due to the restricted space on the northern side). That is, they'll be allowed to when it's not closed to the public for 'events'.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Come on, it's just a bit of fun that gets even more hilarious with repetition. You can also be sure that its practitioners take being called little Englanders with complete equanimity.
Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
Grayling for Chief Whip basically her right hand man ? Is it possible to be Chief Whip and DPM ?
There were suggestions in the papers that there is going to be more restructuring of departments today as well.
Given that Fox is now effectively trade secretary, what's the need for BIS, she might just get rid of it altogether and hand out the work to other departments, though she is said to favour an "industrial strategy" so she may remake it.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Boris does all of those things, regularly. He is the most cultured and open of our politicians. He will be a very good FS, especially now that the hard work parts have been handed to Davis and Fox.
I said last night that to his credit he is a cultured guy who speaks fluent French and Italian and is a francophile and lover of Europe, its food, wine and women. That's good. But he is also very accident prone and he will make an embarrassing mistake at some point and yet again will require sacking. He is also bone idle and – as he has a young family – probably not suited to spending most of his time out of the country!
It really doesn't matter what the French think about Boris, or the anyone else for that matter. The job is there as a sop to the Brexit right, the important parts of it have been given to more serious politicians, Davis and Fox. Boris is there to go and speak French and Latin to the rest of the world and do what Boris did so well for London. Drum up business and show that we are still an open country. Like him or hate him, he is cultured, educated and can turn a phrase. His reputation may be a little bit bruised, but once the next major international event takes place he will be back to doing what he does best. Boris will Boris his way through the world, and that's no bad thing.
Exactly - The voice of reason in a town of buttermilk minds.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Come on, it's just a bit of fun that gets even more hilarious with repetition. You can also be sure that its practitioners take being called little Englanders with complete equanimity.
Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
Chairman of the Con Party was being suggested for Mr Grayling yesterday. (I think everyone is just assuming he's going to get something!)
Ms May seems to want to pursue a policy of cheap energy, rather than (expensive) green energy. I'm not sure Ms Leadsom would be the person for that. She seems to be onboard with the green agenda.
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Come on, it's just a bit of fun that gets even more hilarious with repetition. You can also be sure that its practitioners take being called little Englanders with complete equanimity.
Strangely one is described as "Humorous" and the other as "Showing Disapproval" can't think why people might view them differently.
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
No need to apologise for disagreeing with me.
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
But it wasn't going to be a 'treasure': it was a rich mans' plaything, an idea that was scrabbling around for a purpose.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.
I hadn't realise it did not allow cyclists. Kill it if so.
They'll have to push their bikes over, with steps and a lift up (I think due to the restricted space on the northern side). That is, they'll be allowed to when it's not closed to the public for 'events'.
Another shambles, then. A living, breathing manifestation of the oppressive "cyclists dismount" sign. I don't, by the way.
Your comparison is as flawed as SNP MPs whining about not being allowed to clap all the time in the Commons, then refusing to do so when Cameron left on the basis they couldn't do it every day.
Of course, one realises your desire for an Auld Alliance to be reborn may be colouring your judgement of jesting about the French
Monsieur le Bob, je ne deteste pas la France, mais j'aime les rosbifs.
Afraid that's as far as my memory of French takes me. Frogs and rosbifs is just gentle teasing not some sort of vile slur. It's the same as mutual mockery of poms and convicts between the UK and Oz. For that matter, I enjoy two-way insults about who understands classical history [spoiler: the answer is me] on this site.
Not everything has to be scrupulously polite, and nor should it be.
Have you ever actually been to France? Spent any time there? At all?
Mr. Bob, my French comment was wry and not intended for serious consumption.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
So you are calling them frogs now? I normally enjoy your posts but to be honest this francophobic thing you have going on does you no credit.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
Boris does all of those things, regularly. He is the most cultured and open of our politicians. He will be a very good FS, especially now that the hard work parts have been handed to Davis and Fox.
I said last night that to his credit he is a cultured guy who speaks fluent French and Italian and is a francophile and lover of Europe, its food, wine and women. That's good. But he is also very accident prone and he will make an embarrassing mistake at some point and yet again will require sacking. He is also bone idle and – as he has a young family – probably not suited to spending most of his time out of the country!
Which is why Mrs May has been very shrewd and handed the actual work off to those more likely to do it. Unless he has an affair with the Chinese Premier's wife then I think he'll be fine!
Sky News speculating that Leadsom will be bumped up from MoS at Energy to SoS. Also Grayling to Deputy PM role.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
Grayling for Chief Whip basically her right hand man ? Is it possible to be Chief Whip and DPM ?
There were suggestions in the papers that there is going to be more restructuring of departments today as well.
Given that Fox is now effectively trade secretary, what's the need for BIS, she might just get rid of it altogether and hand out the work to other departments, though she is said to favour an "industrial strategy" so she may remake it.
Aren't universities going back to Education? Or was that another rumour? We do need a DTI type role for domestic stuff/infrastructure
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
Wow, English is the lingua franca at the Quai these days?
Comments
Ms May: Sorry George but I have to make a clean break with th past. So no choice but you have to go.
There will be a job in a couple of years when it's all died down.
George: Thanks Theresa.. I need a break.
These days Foreign Secretary is basically an sinecure anyway. Being the public face of things while the real work gets done behind the scenes and in bilaterals at the PM level.
Owen Smith's (Who he?) 'Back To The Future' line for the EU will be popular in London and as that's where half the members reside, it may help him against Jezza. Not so sure with the Northern heartlands (or Wales) when it comes to GE 2017.
The split is developing.
Reading a few comments from researchers in Universities it seems that being attached to Europe isn't actually what most of them want. All decent research is funded via other routes and you only go to Europe when all other funding routes have been exhausted. You then have to combine with other countries who may not actually bother to do that much for the money. The best example I saw was the one week cruise round Greek Islands on a boat that the Greek's had spent their share of the research budget on. That was all the Greeks provided as they didn't actually do any research...
That role ended on 24th June.
a) he wants to
or
b) needs must...
We'll see if Owen Smith turns out to be a serious contender. IF, and it's a big if, he is able to topple Corbyn, the Conservatives would be wise to take him very seriously.
Nonetheless, the Conservatives are having their own fun it would seem. With the cool light of day, I realise Boris's appointment as FS is part of the "outward, positive, confident" image May is looking to portray during and after the process of leaving the EU.
Not so much Gunboat diplomacy as Funboat diplomacy as we imagine Boris showboating round Latin America eating something interesting here, getting stuck on a wire somewhere else. His punishment will be to smile endlessly for Britain and take whatever humiliation and photo ops come this way while the adults get on with the real work elsewhere.
The promotion of Amber Rudd is noteworthy - I'm supposing she will be Continuity May at the Home Office. Labour might think she could be a big prize at the next election - I think they need a 4 or maybe 4.5% swing which isn't inconceivable.
A much more radical upheaval than 1990 in terms of the top jobs and, one suspects, the next level down and it will be interesting to see who the winners and losers will be.
May had to be clear that was no longer the case.
He may well be back in a couple of years - but his shadow PM-ship needs to be dissolved before that happens..
Mr. D, be fair. Everyone knows without the UK in the EU Western Civilisation will end. Edited extra bit: no wonder the EU are paying such close attention to how we're doing things.
PB isn't an echo chamber for any one view. He fights his corner and other are free to do the same. The site is much richer for such diversity.
Good lord, we even allow turnip farmers on PB and the odd, very odd peer of the realm too.
Which he isn't.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/revealed-the-17m-holland-park-townhouse-where-david-cameron-and-his-family-now-live-a3295436.html
How long since Lib Dems in 3rd place?
If it is a sinecure as you claim (and I really think you're wrong on that), then the post should be abolished. In the meantime he could do enormous damage in his usual charming manner.
BTW, are you still supporting the Garden Bridge?
And for those who really don't want to read anything I post, there is a handy feature they can use. My name appears directly before every post...
I am not so sure he is of the 'soft left'.
In 2006 he was fairly open that the Iraq war was not wrong and some sort of socialist crusade, sold himself as a blairite and worked lobbying government for Pfizier.
Now he is putting himself forward as the anti austerity and anti Iraq man?
Said he only challenged Corbyn because of recent events but supposedly had been trying to gather signatures for last six months.
He appears quite slippery, his chances depend on how much this comes across in my opinion.
Chortle
Mr. X, indeed, it's hardly the first time we've opted out of a European ideology
Looking forward to more detail on the division of labour between Fox and Davis.
I'm a fan of the Garden Bridge - we need to leave treasures behind to improve London rather than just focusing on the utilitarian. But Khan's killed it, I think.
edit: I believe if it's not finished by the end of 2017 then it't can't be built until 2024 (or something) due to the Thames Tideway work meaning nothing else can be built over the river.
On the 'allies' point, we do co-operate closely on military matters but it's worth noting the frogs are very much against achieving a good deal with the UK.
Back Corbyn.
Apart from anything else, it could just be a giant magic trick.
Watch what Boris is doing over there so you don't notice what is really happening over here...
It might be an act of genius. Or not.
Things that have a defined and required purpose do not need to be 'utilitarian': they can also be beautiful. London is filled with things that were built for a defined purpose and yet are also beautiful. Sometimes the purpose enhances the beauty. Function enhancing form.
The Garden Bridge's beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but it's purpose is non-existent. A new bridge in London that would not allow cyclists seems broken at the beginning. And that leaves out the extortionate cost.
If Khan has killed it, then he's already done the London taxpayers a favour.
Learn a bit of French, go to France on holiday, chat to the people, bask in the sunshine, drink the wine, enjoy the food. You'll soon learn. Visit London while you are at it. There are 200,000 French people in our city and its much the richer for them.
The former is plausible but I'm not sure about the later, although Grayling has missed a top job.
May is certainly going for an older guard. The average age of Cabinet so far has risen from 50 > 58 according to Sky.
"So you are calling them frogs now?"
Along with 99% of the British population. Although I don't count Londoners in that grouping. I assume you must live there?
I think they find it farcical rather than upsetting!
Probably the most senior post you could realistically give him. But also perhaps the post where a faux pas would be a big deal and you can then sack him?
TM's position is not all that strong... she has a narrow majority and if we go into recession, then Tory MPs may start grumbling about how long it is taking to leave/get a trade deal etc... we should have gone for a Brexiteer all along....
Liam Fox has played his hand very well. To get a new senior position just five years after resigning in scandal is impressive.
Afraid that's as far as my memory of French takes me. Frogs and rosbifs is just gentle teasing not some sort of vile slur. It's the same as mutual mockery of poms and convicts between the UK and Oz. For that matter, I enjoy two-way insults about who understands classical history [spoiler: the answer is me] on this site.
Not everything has to be scrupulously polite, and nor should it be.
There were suggestions in the papers that there is going to be more restructuring of departments today as well.
For a man written off as a complete idiot by many on here for years - if he became DPM, that'd be rather entertaining.
Hunt's also been out and about before the cameras. He's previously said he didn't want another portfolio after Health - but who knows anything anymore. We've shaken the political kaleidoscope.
You can also be sure that its practitioners take being called little Englanders with complete equanimity.
Ms May seems to want to pursue a policy of cheap energy, rather than (expensive) green energy. I'm not sure Ms Leadsom would be the person for that. She seems to be onboard with the green agenda.
'Smith is afraid that Tim Farron and the Lib Dems are running away with that particular issue. Itis a good one. Lib Dem membership is rising fast.'
The only policy that differentiates them from Labour.
Your comparison is as flawed as SNP MPs whining about not being allowed to clap all the time in the Commons, then refusing to do so when Cameron left on the basis they couldn't do it every day.
Of course, one realises your desire for an Auld Alliance to be reborn may be colouring your judgement of jesting about the French
Have you ever actually been to France? Spent any time there? At all?
I've also never had the chance to meet Aurelian, not Zhuge Liang, nor even Hannibal, though I'll still pontificate on them if I want to.
For that matter, I've never even been to an F1 race
"It's dull, to be honest."
Pretentious? Moi? From Fawlty Towers circa 1970s.