politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn the early favourite in the Labour leadership contest
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ToryJim said:
@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Agree - Boris can add to the Gaiety of the Nation - and the international community - while others get on with the serious work - and if BREXIT goes tits up, he'll be up to his oxters in it.....(even though he likely won't have much to do with the nitty gritty....)0 -
There are 3 back doors ....etcydoethur said:
Because he's the second most hated politician in Britain behind Jez?DecrepitJohnL said:No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
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He's Minister for Glad Handing and Champagne Receptions, I am sure he will be excellent at it.ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.0 -
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)SouthamObserver said:
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
Yep, fair comment. The other side of the coin is that this could make Boris and propel him into Number 10 as May's successor. If he's as clever as some say, he'll see this job as a huge opportunity and act accordingly.IanB2 said:
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...
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Where does that leave you if the principles you want to stand for will never command enough support in the country to win a majority ?Polruan said:
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)SouthamObserver said:
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
Hammond on Sky in 5 mins.0
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I thought the whole point is that he wasn't an arch-leaver: at heart he's a Europhile who used the vote to try to position himself for the top job. As it turns out, incompetently.SimonStClare said:
I think Theresa May has been rather clever bringing arch Leaver, Boris back into the fold. The much pared down roll of foreign secretary is enough rope to limit the damage he could do abroad, and enough to hang himself if he does.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.0 -
Given the need to get rid of the deficit, or at least reduce it, all our budgets should be punishment ones for some time. But I predict in 2025 we will still have a deficit.ThreeQuidder said:
On Boris, he's bright and be a charmer, but he seems a poor fit for delicate matters. Maybe he'll stick to making small talk around the cucumber sandwiches0 -
While the hasbara trolls never sleep, do they?SouthamObserver said:
Ah, the Jew baiter of Merseyside is up early today.RodCrosby said:
In the eyes of a chosen few...ThreeQuidder said:
Because he's a completely unsuitable leader.RodCrosby said:
Has everyone joined up the dots yet, why all this is happening to Corbyn?Scott_P said:@LOS_Fisher: EXCL: Major Labour donor Michael Foster launches legal action against Labour NEC for ruling that Corbyn is on ballot
https://t.co/rTF6akpVDt0 -
Not sure if this has been posted but fans of popcorn need to order in fresh supplies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36791782
"Labour leadership: Donor to challenge Corbyn ballot ruling"0 -
The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/0 -
Movement, yes; party, no. In a Parliamentary party no leader can lead without the confidence of his/her MPs. You are sensible enough to concede that those 172 MPs (plus others, it is now clear) are not all right wing Blairites; they encompass all strands of thought outside the hard left. If members vote for Corbyn once more despite knowing that, then they are making a very clear decision about what they believe Labour's priority should be. And mass deselection of MPs will have to follow, along with new rules on annual reselection of all Labour candidates from thereon in.Polruan said:
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)SouthamObserver said:
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
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Here's Politics Homes spreadsheet of the state of announcementsPlatoSaid said:Just checked Chris Grayling's wiki entry and he's still waiting for a job - thought I read here yesterday that he'd got one.
Anyone remember? It was a blizzard of announcements and rumours yesterday.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/dods-people/77259/updating-live-theresa-mays
Anyone keep track of how reliable yesterday's 'sources' were?0 -
Sadly it is true. Owen Smith is not an Oxford man so will be held in contempt by all the Oxbridge types in the media and wider Establishment. Jim Callaghan, John Major -- not Oxford, not cut from the right cloth. Hmm. Where did Andrea Leadsom go to school? Wikipedia says Warwick. Well, then.daodao said:
Sadly, Owen Smith has 1 attribute that will ensure that he will never be PM, even if he wins the Labour leadership - remember the contempt in which Neil Kinnock was held east of Offa's Dyke.Polruan said:
My gut feeling is that the Labour right is now desperate enough for a candidate with what they call leadership that they will swing behind him even if he sticks to a policy agenda that will be left enough for many of Corbyn's supporters who are looking for something more distinctive than simply "not the Tories". This is a big change from last summer when any policy pronouncements with a hint of socialism about them were seen as too dangerous for a credible leader.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
What a load of claptrap.. If they hadn't published and delayed it, they would have been accused of hiding the truth. its Daily Mail type journalism./Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/0 -
Not often people complain a report like that has not been delayed.Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Last time (this week) I'll mention it, but my mid-season review, including spread betting suggestions for the latter half of the season, is up here: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/the-2016-mid-season-review.html0 -
When's that going to be, exactly?Moses_ said:
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
If they'd delayed publication they'd have been accused of 'suppressing it'......
You'd think there was enough stuff in the world to get genuinely upset about!0 -
Much appreciated. The DT IIRC said Greening was For Sec...CarlottaVance said:
Here's Politics Homes spreadsheet of the state of announcementsPlatoSaid said:Just checked Chris Grayling's wiki entry and he's still waiting for a job - thought I read here yesterday that he'd got one.
Anyone remember? It was a blizzard of announcements and rumours yesterday.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/dods-people/77259/updating-live-theresa-mays
Anyone keep track of how reliable yesterday's 'sources' were?0 -
Was that on her CV.....?DecrepitJohnL said:
Where did Andrea Leadsom go to school? Wikipedia says Warwick. Well, then.daodao said:
Sadly, Owen Smith has 1 attribute that will ensure that he will never be PM, even if he wins the Labour leadership - remember the contempt in which Neil Kinnock was held east of Offa's Dyke.Polruan said:
My gut feeling is that the Labour right is now desperate enough for a candidate with what they call leadership that they will swing behind him even if he sticks to a policy agenda that will be left enough for many of Corbyn's supporters who are looking for something more distinctive than simply "not the Tories". This is a big change from last summer when any policy pronouncements with a hint of socialism about them were seen as too dangerous for a credible leader.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
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People seem to assume that Out v In is a black and white thing. Obviously the choice is binary, but the likelihood is that both May and Boris are fairly evenly balanced on the issue, with May leaning marginally to In and Boris to Out. Their views on the matter may be a lot closer than is assumed.JosiasJessop said:
I thought the whole point is that he wasn't an arch-leaver: at heart he's a Europhile who used the vote to try to position himself for the top job. As it turns out, incompetently.SimonStClare said:
I think Theresa May has been rather clever bringing arch Leaver, Boris back into the fold. The much pared down roll of foreign secretary is enough rope to limit the damage he could do abroad, and enough to hang himself if he does.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.0 -
Its already been delayed by 30 years.kle4 said:
Not often people complain a report like that has not been delayed.Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/
Another example of systematic abuse under the guise of religion. No doubt an old man in funny clothes will issue an apologetic statement and talk of forgiveness.0 -
I thought it was the Labour Party view that women are For Secs but certainly not for leading the party.PlatoSaid said:
Much appreciated. The DT IIRC said Greening was For Sec...CarlottaVance said:
Here's Politics Homes spreadsheet of the state of announcementsPlatoSaid said:Just checked Chris Grayling's wiki entry and he's still waiting for a job - thought I read here yesterday that he'd got one.
Anyone remember? It was a blizzard of announcements and rumours yesterday.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/dods-people/77259/updating-live-theresa-mays
Anyone keep track of how reliable yesterday's 'sources' were?0 -
Mmmmm.... If you say so then you must be right.SquareRoot said:
What a load of claptrap.. If they hadn't published and delayed it, they would have been accused of hiding the truth. its Daily Mail type journalism./Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/0 -
One wonders whether over breakfast Michael Gove is enjoying his toast as he is about to become some.
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LauraK
Morning - next reshuffle appointments likely to start again at about half ten....still lots of politicians waiting by the phone!0 -
So quick to judge. You cannot blame the A of C for what happened 30 yrs ago and not on his watch so to speak. Terrible things have happened and its to the church's credit that its not trying to hide what some awful people did.blackburn63 said:
Its already been delayed by 30 years.kle4 said:
Not often people complain a report like that has not been delayed.Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/
Another example of systematic abuse under the guise of religion. No doubt an old man in funny clothes will issue an apologetic statement and talk of forgiveness.0 -
Smith looks a good bet to me. Firmly anti austerity and anti Iraq War like Corbyn and unlike Eagle he could appeal to the membership without being as hard left as Corbyn, for example he has said he would not vote to hold Blair in contempt of Parliament and backs Trident. By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal0
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@bbclauraK: Morning - next reshuffle appointments likely to start again at about half ten....still lots of politicians waiting by the phone!0
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Actually this CofE case seems different because of the drugs (at "chemical cosh" levels) -- psychiatry rather than sex.blackburn63 said:
Its already been delayed by 30 years.kle4 said:
Not often people complain a report like that has not been delayed.Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/
Another example of systematic abuse under the guise of religion. No doubt an old man in funny clothes will issue an apologetic statement and talk of forgiveness.0 -
Incidentally, worth noting our new Foreign Secretary won the Spectator poem contest for obscene limericks about the Turkish President. Hmm.0
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I will put in an order in.SquareRoot said:Not sure if this has been posted but fans of popcorn need to order in fresh supplies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36791782
"Labour leadership: Donor to challenge Corbyn ballot ruling"
Although I think highly likely court will say NEC has the power to make such decisions and that's the end of it.0 -
Great day to publish. When everyone is looking the other way. Opportunistic.CarlottaVance said:
When's that going to be, exactly?Moses_ said:
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
If they'd delayed publication they'd have been accused of 'suppressing it'......
You'd think there was enough stuff in the world to get genuinely upset about!
Shouldn't delay a report like that of course but certainly a convenient "coincidence"
If a political party had done this then PB would be awash with indignation.0 -
Tonbridge Grammar then Warwick (David Davis also went to Warwick as did Tim Loughton before doing an MA at Cambridge, he and Leadsom were once an item apparently)CarlottaVance said:
Was that on her CV.....?DecrepitJohnL said:
Where did Andrea Leadsom go to school? Wikipedia says Warwick. Well, then.daodao said:
Sadly, Owen Smith has 1 attribute that will ensure that he will never be PM, even if he wins the Labour leadership - remember the contempt in which Neil Kinnock was held east of Offa's Dyke.Polruan said:
My gut feeling is that the Labour right is now desperate enough for a candidate with what they call leadership that they will swing behind him even if he sticks to a policy agenda that will be left enough for many of Corbyn's supporters who are looking for something more distinctive than simply "not the Tories". This is a big change from last summer when any policy pronouncements with a hint of socialism about them were seen as too dangerous for a credible leader.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
A quick look at the earlier thread finds this Sky tweet: Reliable Tory MP: Philip Hammond Chanc, Justine Greening For Sec, Amber Rudd Home Sec, Anne Milton Ch Whip, Chris Grayling Brexit Minister.CarlottaVance said:
Here's Politics Homes spreadsheet of the state of announcementsPlatoSaid said:Just checked Chris Grayling's wiki entry and he's still waiting for a job - thought I read here yesterday that he'd got one.
Anyone remember? It was a blizzard of announcements and rumours yesterday.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/dods-people/77259/updating-live-theresa-mays
Anyone keep track of how reliable yesterday's 'sources' were?
A mixed bag so far.0 -
@mattholehouse: school of thought that Boris/Fox/DD's job is selling low fat EU deal to their own party, in exchange for jobs they never dreamt of getting0
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If you went to a major public school you can get away with being non-Oxbridge with the establishment as most went to a top public school before Oxbridge, Churchill was a non graduate but he went to Harrow for example. May is the first state educated Tory PM since Major but she did go to Oxford unlike himDecrepitJohnL said:
Sadly it is true. Owen Smith is not an Oxford man so will be held in contempt by all the Oxbridge types in the media and wider Establishment. Jim Callaghan, John Major -- not Oxford, not cut from the right cloth. Hmm. Where did Andrea Leadsom go to school? Wikipedia says Warwick. Well, then.daodao said:
Sadly, Owen Smith has 1 attribute that will ensure that he will never be PM, even if he wins the Labour leadership - remember the contempt in which Neil Kinnock was held east of Offa's Dyke.Polruan said:
My gut feeling is that the Labour right is now desperate enough for a candidate with what they call leadership that they will swing behind him even if he sticks to a policy agenda that will be left enough for many of Corbyn's supporters who are looking for something more distinctive than simply "not the Tories". This is a big change from last summer when any policy pronouncements with a hint of socialism about them were seen as too dangerous for a credible leader.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
But it's nonsense. The EU can't be bound by the result of a UK referendum, the choice will be accept whatever the deal is, or don't and leave without a deal, which means WTO MFN.HYUFD said:By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
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If any European head of state deserves making fun of its Erdogan - him, or his near cousin Putin:Morris_Dancer said:Incidentally, worth noting our new Foreign Secretary won the Spectator poem contest for obscene limericks about the Turkish President. Hmm.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/boris-johnson-wins-the-spectators-president-erdogan-offensive-poetry-competition/0 -
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JackW said:
One wonders whether over breakfast Michael Gove is enjoying his toast as he is about to become some.
There is no greater punishment than being forced to watch your friends succeed. By the end of the day he will have suffered enough whether he gets sacked or not.
If she really wants to rub it in, she should leave Gove with a seat at cabinet, one where he is close enough to taste Boris's aura of smug satisfaction.0 -
I think the whole point about Johnson is that he is an arch Johnsonian.JosiasJessop said:
I thought the whole point is that he wasn't an arch-leaver: at heart he's a Europhile who used the vote to try to position himself for the top job. As it turns out, incompetently.SimonStClare said:
I think Theresa May has been rather clever bringing arch Leaver, Boris back into the fold. The much pared down roll of foreign secretary is enough rope to limit the damage he could do abroad, and enough to hang himself if he does.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.0 -
Owen Smith has the advantage of not being female in the Labour party.
https://www.the-pool.com/news-views/politics/2016/28/caroline-criado-perez-on-labour-women-abuse-and-death-threats0 -
30 years on they've decided not to hide what went on for years. I'm more interested in child welfare than the opinion of a bloke who believes in mediaeval nonsense.SquareRoot said:
So quick to judge. You cannot blame the A of C for what happened 30 yrs ago and not on his watch so to speak. Terrible things have happened and its to the church's credit that its not trying to hide what some awful people did.blackburn63 said:
Its already been delayed by 30 years.kle4 said:
Not often people complain a report like that has not been delayed.Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/
Another example of systematic abuse under the guise of religion. No doubt an old man in funny clothes will issue an apologetic statement and talk of forgiveness.0 -
To be fair, any time during the past fortnight was a good day to bury bad news. Ask Angela Eagle, whose launch got about 10 seconds on the news because Leadsom withdrew the same morning.Moses_ said:
Great day to publish. When everyone is looking the other way. Opportunistic.CarlottaVance said:
When's that going to be, exactly?Moses_ said:
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
If they'd delayed publication they'd have been accused of 'suppressing it'......
You'd think there was enough stuff in the world to get genuinely upset about!
Shouldn't delay a report like that of course but certainly a convenient "coincidence"
If a political party had done this then PB would be awash with indignation.0 -
It's not suppressing it if you pre-announce it and give a definite release date. Announce that the report is ready but that to give it the coverage it deserves it will be released in X days time, copies will be available at Y o'clock on Z day. As long as X is a reasonable number shouldn't be any drama.CarlottaVance said:
When's that going to be, exactly?Moses_ said:
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
If they'd delayed publication they'd have been accused of 'suppressing it'......
You'd think there was enough stuff in the world to get genuinely upset about!0 -
What a turnipScott_P said:
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JohnLilburne said:
I thought it was the Labour Party view that women are For Secs but certainly not for leading the party.PlatoSaid said:
Much appreciated. The DT IIRC said Greening was For Sec...CarlottaVance said:
Here's Politics Homes spreadsheet of the state of announcementsPlatoSaid said:Just checked Chris Grayling's wiki entry and he's still waiting for a job - thought I read here yesterday that he'd got one.
Anyone remember? It was a blizzard of announcements and rumours yesterday.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/dods-people/77259/updating-live-theresa-mays
Anyone keep track of how reliable yesterday's 'sources' were? 0 -
Miss Vance, indeed, Erdogan's dragging his country backwards.0
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I see Malcolm was up very early this morning.Scott_P said:0 -
I agree with you that the PLP is fairly broad-based, though the proportion that seems to be marginally to the right of May's professed position in yesterday's speech remains a concern. But it's a big step from "Labour should pursue power through Parliamentary means" to "Labour should undertake this through a system of representative democracy whereby the parliamentary party treats the views of its membership as purely advisory". I dont buy the Kinnock line that Labour's parliamentary focus gives the MPs a veto over the leadership, although I'd agree that in most circumstances the leader should recognise that it's time to look for a compromise way out if the level of confidence is so low.SouthamObserver said:
Movement, yes; party, no. In a Parliamentary party no leader can lead without the confidence of his/her MPs. You are sensible enough to concede that those 172 MPs (plus others, it is now clear) are not all right wing Blairites; they encompass all strands of thought outside the hard left. If members vote for Corbyn once more despite knowing that, then they are making a very clear decision about what they believe Labour's priority should be. And mass deselection of MPs will have to follow, along with new rules on annual reselection of all Labour candidates from thereon in.Polruan said:
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)SouthamObserver said:
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
In this case a leadership election (which I think Corbyn will lose) is the right outcome as we aren't in normal circumstances. Effectively the MPs are asking the membership "now that you know how strongly we object to the policies and personalities you voted for last year, do you *still* want us to follow them?" If the answer is "yes" then I agree, it's going to get messy.0 -
May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membershipIndigo said:
But it's nonsense. The EU can't be bound by the result of a UK referendum, the choice will be accept whatever the deal is, or don't and leave without a deal, which means WTO MFN.HYUFD said:By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
0 -
As you are nowMoses_ said:
Great day to publish. When everyone is looking the other way. Opportunistic.CarlottaVance said:
When's that going to be, exactly?Moses_ said:
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
If they'd delayed publication they'd have been accused of 'suppressing it'......
You'd think there was enough stuff in the world to get genuinely upset about!
Shouldn't delay a report like that of course but certainly a convenient "coincidence"
If a political party had done this then PB would be awash with indignation.0 -
Even Churchill was looked on with deep suspicion, and for the first years of the war got a better reception from Labour MPs than Conservatives.HYUFD said:
If you went to a major public school you can get away with being non-Oxbridge with the establishment as most went to a top public school before Oxbridge, Churchill was a non graduate but he went to Harrow for example. May is the first state educated Tory PM since Major but she did go to Oxford unlike himDecrepitJohnL said:
Sadly it is true. Owen Smith is not an Oxford man so will be held in contempt by all the Oxbridge types in the media and wider Establishment. Jim Callaghan, John Major -- not Oxford, not cut from the right cloth. Hmm. Where did Andrea Leadsom go to school? Wikipedia says Warwick. Well, then.daodao said:
Sadly, Owen Smith has 1 attribute that will ensure that he will never be PM, even if he wins the Labour leadership - remember the contempt in which Neil Kinnock was held east of Offa's Dyke.Polruan said:
My gut feeling is that the Labour right is now desperate enough for a candidate with what they call leadership that they will swing behind him even if he sticks to a policy agenda that will be left enough for many of Corbyn's supporters who are looking for something more distinctive than simply "not the Tories". This is a big change from last summer when any policy pronouncements with a hint of socialism about them were seen as too dangerous for a credible leader.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
The unpopular face of governmentDecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Clear break with the past
Internal loyalty: no cliques will be tolerated.
Need I go on?0 -
@dominicoc: Hammond on @BBCr4today "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." Big nod to the City
So when the Three Brexiteers come back with no access???0 -
that was covered on bbc radio news bulletins yesterday so it wasnt buried that well.kle4 said:
Not often people complain a report like that has not been delayed.Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/0 -
Only membership stupid enough to not see that its complete hot air. Look at the damage Lisbon did to Cast Iron Dave for promising to do something he was subsequently unable to do, and had a reasonable expectation at the time he said it of knowing this was the case.HYUFD said:
May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membershipIndigo said:
But it's nonsense. The EU can't be bound by the result of a UK referendum, the choice will be accept whatever the deal is, or don't and leave without a deal, which means WTO MFN.HYUFD said:By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
0 -
-
@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"0
-
He isMorris_Dancer said:Miss Vance, indeed, Erdogan's dragging his country backwards.
The trident vote is next Monday - and I really don't know how it will play out with Labour members. It may be absolutely nothing, it could be another 15,000 votes to Corbyn (who is the only one likely to vote No)..HYUFD said:Smith looks a good bet to me. Firmly anti austerity and anti Iraq War like Corbyn and unlike Eagle he could appeal to the membership without being as hard left as Corbyn, for example he has said he would not vote to hold Blair in contempt of Parliament and backs Trident. By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
0 -
And you shouldn't read anything into the "back door" - it's SOP: a common courtesy so that the sacked minister doesn't have to put on a brave face for the press.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
It's why it was so controversial in 1990 when Heseltine left via the front door after resigning rather than the back...0 -
Maybe we should wait and see ?Scott_P said:@dominicoc: Hammond on @BBCr4today "we need to ensure access to the single market for our financial services industry." Big nod to the City
So when the Three Brexiteers come back with no access???0 -
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.IanB2 said:
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...0 -
It'll certainly provoke a big demo as always - and lots of megaphone chanting. I wish they'd ban those on College Green. It makes TV intvs inaudible.eek said:
He isMorris_Dancer said:Miss Vance, indeed, Erdogan's dragging his country backwards.
The trident vote is next Monday - and I really don't know how it will play out with Labour members. It may be absolutely nothing, it could be another 15,000 votes to Corbyn (who is the only one likely to vote No)..HYUFD said:Smith looks a good bet to me. Firmly anti austerity and anti Iraq War like Corbyn and unlike Eagle he could appeal to the membership without being as hard left as Corbyn, for example he has said he would not vote to hold Blair in contempt of Parliament and backs Trident. By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
0 -
Its still showboating. May will enact A50 somewhen early next year, after that the choices come down to the negotiated deal or WTO MFN, no amount of referenda will change that. It is of course entirely respectable to campaign for rejoining, but with the proviso that it would be full fat no opt-out EU.PClipp said:
Smith is afraid that Tim Farron and the Lib Dems are running away with that particular issue. Itis a good one. Lib Dem membership is rising fast.HYUFD said:May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membership
0 -
In the sense that Boris actually wanted to stay in the EU but thought it was in his interest to campaign for leave, and May actually wanted to leave the EU but thought it in her interest to stick with Cameron.JohnLilburne said:
People seem to assume that Out v In is a black and white thing. Obviously the choice is binary, but the likelihood is that both May and Boris are fairly evenly balanced on the issue, with May leaning marginally to In and Boris to Out. Their views on the matter may be a lot closer than is assumed.JosiasJessop said:
I thought the whole point is that he wasn't an arch-leaver: at heart he's a Europhile who used the vote to try to position himself for the top job. As it turns out, incompetently.SimonStClare said:
I think Theresa May has been rather clever bringing arch Leaver, Boris back into the fold. The much pared down roll of foreign secretary is enough rope to limit the damage he could do abroad, and enough to hang himself if he does.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.0 -
Which is what federasts have always wanted.Indigo said:
Its still showboating. May will enact A50 somewhen early next year, after that the choices come down to the negotiated deal or WTO MFN, no amount of referenda will change that. It is of course entirely respectable to campaign for rejoining, but with the proviso that it would be full fat no opt-out EU.PClipp said:
Smith is afraid that Tim Farron and the Lib Dems are running away with that particular issue. Itis a good one. Lib Dem membership is rising fast.HYUFD said:May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membership
0 -
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
0 -
Do you ever actually leave the house and engage with people? You ought to give it a try.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
0 -
In which case they would have been criticised for covering things up.Moses_ said:The Church of England has been accused of attempting to “bury bad news” after publishing a damning report into abuse at a children’s home on the same day the new Prime Minister was appointed.
An independent review into activities in Kendall House in Gravesend, Kent described how vulnerable girls were regularly drugged, raped and physically abused for almost 20-years between 1967 and 1986.
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/church-of-england-accused-of-burying-bad-news-over-timing-of-abu/
I dislike the "critics say" style of reporting. You can always find a critic to say anything. If necessary you get one of the admin team to make a comment.0 -
Smith winning the next election on a pact with LDs and Nats to put an "accept this Leave deal or revoke/don't invoke A50 referendum" ticket is eminently achievable. Given that the election in question will be after a few years of a divided Tory party with a slim majority arguing about how to deal with Europe.HYUFD said:
May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membershipIndigo said:
But it's nonsense. The EU can't be bound by the result of a UK referendum, the choice will be accept whatever the deal is, or don't and leave without a deal, which means WTO MFN.HYUFD said:By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
0 -
Who says they hadn't already pre-announced the release date? If the scheduled release date was set more than a week or two ago, then there's no way they could have known there was going to be a clash.Indigo said:
It's not suppressing it if you pre-announce it and give a definite release date. Announce that the report is ready but that to give it the coverage it deserves it will be released in X days time, copies will be available at Y o'clock on Z day. As long as X is a reasonable number shouldn't be any drama.CarlottaVance said:
When's that going to be, exactly?Moses_ said:
But critics said the publication of the findings should have been delayed until after the momentous events as Westminster had calmed down
If they'd delayed publication they'd have been accused of 'suppressing it'......
You'd think there was enough stuff in the world to get genuinely upset about!
If that was the case, then they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.0 -
Well worth reading the David Davis ConHome piece - can't help feeling that was a job application...Indigo said:
Its still showboating. May will enact A50 somewhen early next year, after that the choices come down to the negotiated deal or WTO MFN, no amount of referenda will change that. It is of course entirely respectable to campaign for rejoining, but with the proviso that it would be full fat no opt-out EU.PClipp said:
Smith is afraid that Tim Farron and the Lib Dems are running away with that particular issue. Itis a good one. Lib Dem membership is rising fast.HYUFD said:May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membership
http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/david-davis-trade-deals-tax-cuts-and-taking-time-before-triggering-article-50-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html0 -
Cliff Richard?blackburn63 said:No doubt an old man in funny clothes will issue an apologetic statement and talk of forgiveness.
Though he doesn't seem in a very forgiving mood currently.0 -
But don't have the faintest chance of selling to the country, the Euro is electoral poison. Also its a little odd to have lost a referendum on the EU and then say to the electorate, "we want to campaign for putting all that back, but much more of it, and in ways that will really annoy you."grabcocque said:
Which is what federasts have always wanted.Indigo said:
Its still showboating. May will enact A50 somewhen early next year, after that the choices come down to the negotiated deal or WTO MFN, no amount of referenda will change that. It is of course entirely respectable to campaign for rejoining, but with the proviso that it would be full fat no opt-out EU.PClipp said:
Smith is afraid that Tim Farron and the Lib Dems are running away with that particular issue. Itis a good one. Lib Dem membership is rising fast.HYUFD said:May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membership
0 -
Fair enough. I do see Corbyn as the impediment. Except at the edges - as is the case with all parties - there is clearly a programme and plan that all could unite around. As you observe, the differences policies wise between Smith and JC are minimal (except Trident). I suspect they will go head to head, but that Corbyn will win. Looks like we agree on what that will lead to.Polruan said:
I agree with you that the PLP is fairly broad-based, though the proportion that seems to be marginally to the right of May's professed position in yesterday's speech remains a concern. But it's a big step from "Labour should pursue power through Parliamentary means" to "Labour should undertake this through a system of representative democracy whereby the parliamentary party treats the views of its membership as purely advisory". I dont buy the Kinnock line that Labour's parliamentary focus gives the MPs a veto over the leadership, although I'd agree that in most circumstances the leader should recognise that it's time to look for a compromise way out if the level of confidence is so low.SouthamObserver said:
Movement, yes; party, no. In a Parliamentary partyLabour candidates from thereon in.Polruan said:
It doesn't get any truer no matter how often you assert it. Labour is keen to govern as a Parliamentary movement with an authentic left-of-centre social democratic agenda. It doesn't aspire to govern regardless of what principles must be abandoned in order to claw its way to power. This is not the paradigmatic difference that it suits the right to allege: no (decent) person would aspire to govern at all costs, and the differences within the movement are simply quantitative (what cost to our principles is acceptable?) rather that qualitative (do we even want to prioritise governing?)SouthamObserver said:
And wishful thinking. Corbyn will walk the vote. Labour is keen now to be a political movement rather than a Parliamentary party that aspires to govern.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
I would suggest the market prediction for Owen Smith (who he? ed) is based on early punters snapping him up at decent odds, rather than any realistic hope that he’d beat Jeremy Corbyn.
In this case a leadership election (which I think Corbyn will lose) is the right outcome as we aren't in normal circumstances. Effectively the MPs are asking the membership "now that you know how strongly we object to the policies and personalities you voted for last year, do you *still* want us to follow them?" If the answer is "yes" then I agree, it's going to get messy.
As for May, it's always best to judge politicians on what they do, not what they say!
0 -
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
0 -
He may be smarter and more calculating than people think: that does not mean that he's in any way competent or suitable for the job he's been given.Charles said:
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.IanB2 said:
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...0 -
Long-running performers sometimes find it difficult to leave their act behind. We shall see.Charles said:
Boris is far smarter and more calculating than people think. The 'hail, well met, good fellow' persona is all an act.IanB2 said:
Yes, these are thoughtful comments. Whilst I expect quite a few FCO staff have woken up with headaches this morning, this is a job where Boris's faux comedian style will prove particularly inappropriate. He will need to master the brief and put in some work, for a change. And if he does mess up with some ill chosen gag that offends abroad, he is basically in 'one chance saloon' - because his job self evidently requires diplomacy, it will be obvious he has to be sacked and there will be no coming back, even for him.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.
Given the character and temperament he has displayed throughout his political career, it could almost be an exquisite form of torture...0 -
Hmm. If the French are annoyed by Boris' appointment that suggests it may have been a good move.0
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Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.AndrewSpencer said:
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
0 -
If your view is "I want the be in the EU, but a different one" then it is a moot point whether you are an inny or an outy.IanB2 said:
In the sense that Boris actually wanted to stay in the EU but thought it was in his interest to campaign for leave, and May actually wanted to leave the EU but thought it in her interest to stick with Cameron.JohnLilburne said:
People seem to assume that Out v In is a black and white thing. Obviously the choice is binary, but the likelihood is that both May and Boris are fairly evenly balanced on the issue, with May leaning marginally to In and Boris to Out. Their views on the matter may be a lot closer than is assumed.JosiasJessop said:
I thought the whole point is that he wasn't an arch-leaver: at heart he's a Europhile who used the vote to try to position himself for the top job. As it turns out, incompetently.SimonStClare said:
I think Theresa May has been rather clever bringing arch Leaver, Boris back into the fold. The much pared down roll of foreign secretary is enough rope to limit the damage he could do abroad, and enough to hang himself if he does.Charles said:
That was my immediate reaction. I very much doubt we are going to do that much on the world scene in the next 2-3 years except negotiate Brexit and develop trade links. Any security crises, of course, May will be all over and Fallon will be in the room as well (as well as BoJo)ToryJim said:@SouthamObserver
May is very thoughtful which is why before giving Boris the job she carved most of it away into other departments. Boris will find most of the traditional job of FS being done by Davis and Fox. It was an appointment that puzzled me to start with until I realised how cunning she had been.0 -
Commentators on Sky suggesting Osborne & Co hoped he'd get ForSec.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....0 -
Quite likely, not exactly a novelty in politics is it ? Similarly there was no reason for Osborne to participate in the theatre unless there was a quid-pro-quo, so expect to see him quietly appointed to some nice little job (US Ambassador ?) once the fuss has died down.DecrepitJohnL said:May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.
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I must have missed us leaving the EU....PClipp said:
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.AndrewSpencer said:
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
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I don't know if this has been seen before, but in view of the position now held by Davis, this view of how he sees Brexit process progressing has some relevance.
http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/david-davis-trade-deals-tax-cuts-and-taking-time-before-triggering-article-50-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html
Edit: I see Plato linked to it a while ago0 -
I think you need to ask the Health Secretary or the Chancellor, not much the Foreign Secretary can do about the NHS budget.PClipp said:
Yes, he was. Where`s our first 350,000,000 for the NHS? The first week is nearly up.AndrewSpencer said:
Given that Boris was the face of the most significant foreign policy decision this country has made in forty years then they really shouldn't regard it as unbelievable that he has a high profile role in its implementation. After all, it was only two weeks ago that he was favourite to be the new PM.Scott_P said:@AlbertoNardelli: Senior French government source on BoJo as foreign secretary: the word used by colleagues at Quai d'Orsay yesterday evening was "incredible"
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It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....0 -
Good morning all,
Boris will need all his expertise and luck to succeed at the FO. Will he? Well in my fashion I liken Boris to Emperor Claudius, who in his day was likened to a buffoon, and he turned out to be one of the greats.0 -
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)blackburn63 said:
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....0 -
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?0 -
Smiley facegrabcocque said:
Little fucker had it coming (observer headline)blackburn63 said:
It speaks volumes of what May thinks of Osborne, the Sundays will have the inside story, I suspect there'll be little sympathy for Osborne.DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....0 -
Can't agree with your headbanger view of Cameron and the Lisbon Treaty. Cameron had every expectation that he would win an imminent election and that Lisbon would not be ratified at that time. His main mistake was not to qualify his promise. But William Hague did at the Tory Conference.Indigo said:
Only membership stupid enough to not see that its complete hot air. Look at the damage Lisbon did to Cast Iron Dave for promising to do something he was subsequently unable to do, and had a reasonable expectation at the time he said it of knowing this was the case.HYUFD said:
May will not do a referendum on it, Smith will not win the next election it is an appeal to the membershipIndigo said:
But it's nonsense. The EU can't be bound by the result of a UK referendum, the choice will be accept whatever the deal is, or don't and leave without a deal, which means WTO MFN.HYUFD said:By promising a referendum on the BREXIT deal he avoids a direct reverse of the EU referendum but still appeals to Remainers by holding a vote on the actual terms of departure and any Leavers who dislike the deal
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Mr. K, Claudius, from fuzzy memory, was pretty good but he also benefited by having Caligula as predecessor and Nero as successor. Not hard to look good when both the chaps either side of you are off their heads.0
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There was no way back for Osborne when May repeated her 'some people in Westminster don't understand what it's like as a normal everyday family' (paraphrasing) shtick.0
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There was a discussion here last night about Boris' US citizen status/conflict with being ForSec - apparently he relinquished it last year.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/johnson-returns-to-limelight-as-reshuffle-reveals-the-brexit-pack-f6cfwmpjb0 -
My thesis is that May and Osborne arranged this stunt for reasons that are as yet unclear.CarlottaVance said:
I am deeply touched (if a trifle mystified) over your sudden concern for Osborne's feelings - something I haven't noticed in the past 6 years.....DecrepitJohnL said:
May had ample time to sack Osborne face-to-face: at the House for PMQs, or at Cabinet that morning, or at any time in the days since Leadsom withdrew. The signs are this was pre-arranged theatre.CarlottaVance said:
If she'd done it by phone she would have been 'rude, not showing him the courtesy of a personal interview for such a senior government colleague.'DecrepitJohnL said:
That it happened at Number 10 with all the cameras outside. There was no need for Osborne to be there: he could have been sacked by phone, or May could have had a quiet word after Cabinet or in the House after PMQs. Similarly, there was no need even to present it as sacking: Osborne could have put out a statement saying he'd decided to step back from the front line. Oh, and if Osborne really had been brutally sacked, where is his case for the defence?CarlottaVance said:
What was remotely theatrical about Osborne's sacking?DecrepitJohnL said:
There are lots of jobs left. The papers are saying Theresa May's speech borrowed from Ed Miliband but really it was classic one nation Toryism of the sort associated with Michael Gove.blackburn63 said:Has Gove got a job?
If not not it seems May is sending out a message about gossip, backstabbing and cliques. Good for her.
The trouble with Gove is that he is not awfully good at politics. He antagonises people who would naturally be on his side, and in case he is ever too busy to offend people in person, he pays Dominic Cummings to do it for him.
Jeremy Hunt seems like a less bright version.
And the unnecessarily theatrical sacking of Osborne had spin written all over it.
No, the whole affair seemed designed for public consumption. The question is why.
Its not like she frog marched him out the front door into the press pack.
May is a traditionalist - these things are best done face to face.....not by phone, or text.....
However, if, as you suggest, May had sacked him in the HoC (at Cabinet, after Leadsom resigned) before she became PM she would have been, quite rightly, criticised for presumptuousness.......and handed news management to him.
Why would she want to do that?0
