Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
I can see a rush to set up in the most business unfriendly place of any major economy
As of last week, we are the most business unfriendly place of any major economy.
I think there's a little bit more to business friendliness than 'being in the EU'.....
The World Bank (I know, I know 'experts in the pay of the EU') ranks the UK at number 6, the EU at 31. (Germany is 15, France 27.....) in terms of 'Ease of doing business':
From a lot of what I've read over the last few weeks, the EU is a secular church and an article of faith for many. That applies both here and on the continent. It's like a giant, equally totemic NHS. Apostasy is unforgivable.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
I can see a rush to set up in the most business unfriendly place of any major economy
As of last week, we are the most business unfriendly place of any major economy.
I think there's a little bit more to business friendliness than 'being in the EU'.....
The World Bank (I know, I know 'experts in the pay of the EU') ranks the UK at number 6, the EU at 31. (Germany is 15, France 27.....) in terms of 'Ease of doing business':
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
I can see a rush to set up in the most business unfriendly place of any major economy
Pah! I'm sure all businesses will be reassured by the CGT and
Court Finds Kerviel, Whose Bets Lost Bank Billions, Was Fired Unfairly Société Générale ordered to pay trader $511,000; French court says bank ‘could not pretend it hadn’t long been aware of the unauthorized trades’
No, it is. When did you last drive on an English motorway? You have to go many miles up the M1 before you get the first chance to hit the speed limit. There is heavy traffic, always, everywhere.
England has the highest population density in Europe, for a large country. The only other EU country which is higher is Malta.
Have you been to Malta? It's horrible on the main island. Too many towns, too many people. That's where we're headed.
I drove on an English motorway last Autumn. It wasn't particularly busy. You may not be able to do 70 in many places but you spend a lot of time over 50.
But the other striking thing about it is that you're driving for miles through virtually nothing. You could add more lanes without a lot of serious logistical difficulties. There's very little of the kind of infrastructure you see in genuinely heavily populated areas like extended sections in tunnels or multiple decks stacked on top of each other. The limiting factor for doing this is cost, and that scales great when spread over more users.
The other thing you notice about England if you only drive there once a year, that might get lost to gradualism if you do it all the time, is that the roads are gradually getting better: Bypasses built, single-lane roads getting upgraded to two, etc. So I don't think the process of turning new people into taxes, and taxes into infrastructure, is particularly broken.
I drive up and down to Portugal and Italy and other parts of Europe several times a year and without doubt the driving in the UK is without fail the most miserable, slow and stressful section of every journey by a country mile.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
I can see a rush to set up in the most business unfriendly place of any major economy
As of last week, we are the most business unfriendly place of any major economy.
I think there's a little bit more to business friendliness than 'being in the EU'.....
The World Bank (I know, I know 'experts in the pay of the EU') ranks the UK at number 6, the EU at 31. (Germany is 15, France 27.....) in terms of 'Ease of doing business':
That's interesting, particularly Denmark being above us. The other thing to note is how small all of those above us are.
From what I’ve seen, there’s often an “ease" in small countries, both in business and government. I’ve always suspected it was because the circle of those involved was much smaller than in the bigger ones. People “doing business” wererelated to each other, had been to the same Uni’s, had friends in common and so on.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
Japanese senate election update: When polled a large proportion of Japanese voters usually reply "I do not support any party". So a couple of enterprising candidates are running in the proportional section as a party called "I do not support any party".
Is there not a Japanese Electoral Commission to clamp down on such silliness?
No, it is. When did you last drive on an English motorway? You have to go many miles up the M1 before you get the first chance to hit the speed limit. There is heavy traffic, always, everywhere.
England has the highest population density in Europe, for a large country. The only other EU country which is higher is Malta.
Have you been to Malta? It's horrible on the main island. Too many towns, too many people. That's where we're headed.
I drove on an English motorway last Autumn. It wasn't particularly busy. You may not be able to do 70 in many places but you spend a lot of time over 50.
But the other striking thing about it is that you're driving for miles through virtually nothing. You could add more lanes without a lot of serious logistical difficulties. There's very little of the kind of infrastructure you see in genuinely heavily populated areas like extended sections in tunnels or multiple decks stacked on top of each other. The limiting factor for doing this is cost, and that scales great when spread over more users.
The other thing you notice about England if you only drive there once a year, that might get lost to gradualism if you do it all the time, is that the roads are gradually getting better: Bypasses built, single-lane roads getting upgraded to two, etc. So I don't think the process of turning new people into taxes, and taxes into infrastructure, is particularly broken.
I drive up and down to Portugal and Italy and other parts of Europe several times a year and without doubt the driving in the UK is without fail the most miserable, slow and stressful section of every journey by a country mile.
I think that congestion is true of the SE of England, and around Birmingham and Manchester. Otherwise it’s not too bad.
Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.
52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious
Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.
What's not to like?
Those trade deals are going to take a minimum of four years to get off the ground and as @rcs1000 has pointed out on a number of occasions, we need to negotiate from a position of strength. A year long recession followed by rising unemployment isn't the position we want to be looking for trade deals from because other nations will know how desperate we are to sign. Like it or not, 35-38% of our exports go to the EU. We can't face barriers to that trade and lose the income on the hopes of signing non-EU deals in the meantime. It is a fantastical policy position.
The real
It needs to be more than a fig leaf. People care more about outcomes than abstracts. Reduce unskilled immigration and people will be fine with FoM I think.
I think we could do a few things ourselves. We need to axe in working benefits, add English language requirements for certain industries, make benefits contributory. On the EU side we could ask for an EU wide increase in waiting days to a year and have them start only once working status is achieved, or for self employed the first invoice date. I think those two moves alone would drastically reduce unskilled and low paid migration.
Agree with much of that but would have a basic minimum for benefits with higher benefits dependent on NI contribution like Germany
Why? People should be encouraged to save and to work. If they have nothing assistance should be provided in the form of food vouchers until they get back into work.
Food vouchers are benefits by another name and what about heating bills, electricity, rental costs etc? In a civilised country I believe everyone should have enough to survive on but to live in any form of comfort requires effort
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
The whole trouble with Cameron was that very few of statements bear examination. He was the biggest liar to hold the post of PM since Harold Wilson.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
I can see a rush to set up in the most business unfriendly place of any major economy
As of last week, we are the most business unfriendly place of any major economy.
I think there's a little bit more to business friendliness than 'being in the EU'.....
The World Bank (I know, I know 'experts in the pay of the EU') ranks the UK at number 6, the EU at 31. (Germany is 15, France 27.....) in terms of 'Ease of doing business':
That's interesting, particularly Denmark being above us. The other thing to note is how small all of those above us are.
From what I’ve seen, there’s often an “ease" in small countries, both in business and government. I’ve always suspected it was because the circle of those involved was much smaller than in the bigger ones. People “doing business” wererelated to each other, had been to the same Uni’s, had friends in common and so on.
Complexity of inter-related components increases exponentially. Smaller systems are way simpler in all aspects, including navigating them. Complexity is s to the n minus 1, where n is the number of components, s is the number of potential states for each component.
So for n=1, s=1, complexity is 0 For n =2, with each component having 5 states (corrupt, a little iffy, neutral, somewhat helpful, very helpful), complexity is 25 For n = 10, s = 5, you are already at around complexity of 10 million
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
It needs to be more than a fig leaf. People care more about outcomes than abstracts. Reduce unskilled immigration and people will be fine with FoM I think.
As SeanT keeps pointing out, crashing our economy was a really stupid way of reducing immigration, but it will undoubtedly be effective
The migration problem will sort itself in the short term. Someone who knows how to count will need to sort the economy.
that rules out Andrea (£350m) Leadsom
It also rules out George '£200bn of over-borrowing' Osborne.
And BTW there was approximately 350,000 net immigrants to the UK over 2008 and 2009.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
I think Remain would have won comfortably on such a platform which is more relevant. About 35% of the country may oppose an EFTA deal and free movement, compared to the 52% who wanted to leave the EU
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
The whole trouble with Cameron was that very few of statements bear examination. He was the biggest liar to hold the post of PM since Harold Wilson.
There are an awful lot of people registered as self-employed to get them off Job Centres books who aren’t doing very well, financially.
Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.
52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious
Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.
What's not to like?
Those trade deals are going to take a minimum of four years to get off the ground and as @rcs1000 has pointed out on a number of occasions, we need to negotiate from a position of strength. A year long recession followed by rising unemployment isn't the position we want to be looking for trade deals from because other nations will know how desperate we are to sign. Like it or not, 35-38% of our exports go to the EU. We can't face barriers to that trade and lose the income on the hopes of signing non-EU deals in the meantime. It is a fantastical policy position.
The real world solution is to stay in the single market, get a fig leaf on free movement and then reform the benefits system so people can't come here and after 90 days claim housing benefits, tax credits and other welfare without having paid into the system. We also need to do that for our own citizens, the work incentive in this country is awful compared to other European countries. Let's fix what we can rather than restrict the markets. Supply side reforms are the answer, not restrictions on the markets, as a Tory or someone on the right I'm amazed you can't see it.
You've no idea and just guessing. As are most other PBers.
No, he's just part of the "City caucus" I think its called "Well off libertarians with nice jobs, expensive houses and good pensions for EEA/EFTA" or something
That's exactly what it is and, although I was a Remainer, I will be furious if they get away with it. A breathtaking and cynical con.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
Yeah but we are talking about salaries in finance not industry
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
I can see a rush to set up in the most business unfriendly place of any major economy
As of last week, we are the most business unfriendly place of any major economy.
I think there's a little bit more to business friendliness than 'being in the EU'.....
The World Bank (I know, I know 'experts in the pay of the EU') ranks the UK at number 6, the EU at 31. (Germany is 15, France 27.....) in terms of 'Ease of doing business':
From a lot of what I've read over the last few weeks, the EU is a secular church and an article of faith for many. That applies both here and on the continent. It's like a giant, equally totemic NHS. Apostasy is unforgivable.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
The whole trouble with Cameron was that very few of statements bear examination. He was the biggest liar to hold the post of PM since Harold Wilson.
Amazing, how people who appear to have achieved nothing of note in their lives are happy to call people liars and criticise them.
What have you achieved that we can asses and comment on?
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
"May has said BREXIT means BREXIT" is not a lot to rely on. She has to say that or she can write off her chances. Whether she means it is another matter.
Of course she means it, most Tory voters voted Leave, she cannot ignore that
Cobblers. She can deliver an EEA version that suits most Remainers and hurts most Leavers trust.
That's a giant electoral raspberry in the making.
Many Home Counties areas voted Remain, those that voted Leave only did so relatively narrowly. Most Middle class Tories will be happy with the EEA on the whole, add them to the 48% who voted Remain you have a clear EEA majority. The white working class Leave voters may not be happy with free movement, nor will some lower middle class Tories but they comprise about a third of the country, enough for a significant UKIP protest vote but nothing more
Only Brighton and St Albans had more than 60% Remain whereas Leave were over 60% in Dartford, Medway, Swale, Dover, Shepway, Thanet, Gravesham, Basildon, Thurrock, Castle Point, Rochford, Maldon, Tendring, Braintree, Harlow, Epping Forrest, Broxbourne and Arun.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
The whole trouble with Cameron was that very few of statements bear examination. He was the biggest liar to hold the post of PM since Harold Wilson.
But he failed to copy Harold Wilson on the way the PM should campaign at the referendum. Someone wrote a little article about that.
No, it is. When did you last drive on an English motorway? You have to go many miles up the M1 before you get the first chance to hit the speed limit. There is heavy traffic, always, everywhere.
England has the highest population density in Europe, for a large country. The only other EU country which is higher is Malta.
Have you been to Malta? It's horrible on the main island. Too many towns, too many people. That's where we're headed.
I drove on an English motorway last Autumn. It wasn't particularly busy. You may not be able to do 70 in many places but you spend a lot of time over 50.
But the other striking thing about it is that you're driving for miles through virtually nothing. You could add more lanes without a lot of serious logistical difficulties. There's very little of the kind of infrastructure you see in genuinely heavily populated areas like extended sections in tunnels or multiple decks stacked on top of each other. The limiting factor for doing this is cost, and that scales great when spread over more users.
The other thing you notice about England if you only drive there once a year, that might get lost to gradualism if you do it all the time, is that the roads are gradually getting better: Bypasses built, single-lane roads getting upgraded to two, etc. So I don't think the process of turning new people into taxes, and taxes into infrastructure, is particularly broken.
I drive up and down to Portugal and Italy and other parts of Europe several times a year and without doubt the driving in the UK is without fail the most miserable, slow and stressful section of every journey by a country mile.
I think that congestion is true of the SE of England, and around Birmingham and Manchester. Otherwise it’s not too bad.
Possibly but you need the motorways to do any major journey in the UK and they are invariably badly congested even before you begin to factor in accidents and road works. Most of the continent is a dream in comparison
Food vouchers are benefits by another name and what about heating bills, electricity, rental costs etc? In a civilised country I believe everyone should have enough to survive on but to live in any form of comfort requires effort
And food vouchers are an extremely inefficient form of welfare. Practice in the US Appalachia, for example, is for many recipients to sell the food vouchers to brokers at cents on the dollar to purchase what is really wanted (often drugs, but also things like sneakers for the kids). If you want a simple, low cost to operate system, dole out money. If you don't trust recipients to spend the money wisely, give them what you want them to have (meals). But as soon as scrip is involved, secondary markets evolve ensuring that the welfare recipient ends up with less than 100 cents on the dollar and some shady operators make big profits.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
France is the only country in the world where degree educated woman have TFRs near replacement.
Food vouchers are benefits by another name and what about heating bills, electricity, rental costs etc? In a civilised country I believe everyone should have enough to survive on but to live in any form of comfort requires effort
And food vouchers are an extremely inefficient form of welfare. Practice in the US Appalachia, for example, is for many recipients to sell the food vouchers to brokers at cents on the dollar to purchase what is really wanted (often drugs, but also things like sneakers for the kids). If you want a simple, low cost to operate system, dole out money. If you don't trust recipients to spend the money wisely, give them what you want them to have (meals). But as soon as scrip is involved, secondary markets evolve ensuring that the welfare recipient ends up with less than 100 cents on the dollar and some shady operators make big profits.
The whole point is to make being unemployed unattractive and for migrants to not be able to take advantage of a broken system.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
The whole trouble with Cameron was that very few of statements bear examination. He was the biggest liar to hold the post of PM since Harold Wilson.
But he failed to copy Harold Wilson on the way the PM should campaign at the referendum. Someone wrote a little article about that.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
If Theresa May moves into No.10 next week, she will find her first month in office "invaluable" for future battles too. Brown was waved into No. 10 by the entire media mindlessly spewing out the "Granita pact" narrative. May's coronation wouldn't be anything like Brown's. As for Tory leaders who've been in and out of the leadership while the party has been in opposition, that's not analogous.
If Leadsome pulls out, all May's other rivals will too. "We need a Leaver as PM" is a stupid line. "Unity" trumps it. There can't be a "Brexit government", because Brexit isn't a party. Tories in office are all "Leavers" now. Why would a "Leaver" be better in negotiations with the EU anyway? I laid Boris and I'm considering backing Theresa even though I don't like backing favourites.
Meanwhile Penny Mordaunt, the most famous "cock" fan in the House of Commons, is supporting Leadsome. Has Leadsome got any other role than whacking Gove out and putting May in next week?
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
Not a priority - but far better than penalising it.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Food vouchers are benefits by another name and what about heating bills, electricity, rental costs etc? In a civilised country I believe everyone should have enough to survive on but to live in any form of comfort requires effort
And food vouchers are an extremely inefficient form of welfare. Practice in the US Appalachia, for example, is for many recipients to sell the food vouchers to brokers at cents on the dollar to purchase what is really wanted (often drugs, but also things like sneakers for the kids). If you want a simple, low cost to operate system, dole out money. If you don't trust recipients to spend the money wisely, give them what you want them to have (meals). But as soon as scrip is involved, secondary markets evolve ensuring that the welfare recipient ends up with less than 100 cents on the dollar and some shady operators make big profits.
The whole point is to make being unemployed unattractive and for migrants to not be able to take advantage of a broken system.
So change the system, rather than make it inefficient. We are now going to be out of the EU, so can say that you have to have had a record of 2, 3, 4, 5 years employment as a non-citizen before you become eligible for benefits.
Food vouchers are benefits by another name and what about heating bills, electricity, rental costs etc? In a civilised country I believe everyone should have enough to survive on but to live in any form of comfort requires effort
And food vouchers are an extremely inefficient form of welfare. Practice in the US Appalachia, for example, is for many recipients to sell the food vouchers to brokers at cents on the dollar to purchase what is really wanted (often drugs, but also things like sneakers for the kids). If you want a simple, low cost to operate system, dole out money. If you don't trust recipients to spend the money wisely, give them what you want them to have (meals). But as soon as scrip is involved, secondary markets evolve ensuring that the welfare recipient ends up with less than 100 cents on the dollar and some shady operators make big profits.
You're thinking about this the wrong way. Food stamps encourage people to learn about discounting and trading. It helps people really understand money. Many a Goldman trader started by buying food stamps at 25 cents in the the dollar.
Food vouchers are benefits by another name and what about heating bills, electricity, rental costs etc? In a civilised country I believe everyone should have enough to survive on but to live in any form of comfort requires effort
And food vouchers are an extremely inefficient form of welfare. Practice in the US Appalachia, for example, is for many recipients to sell the food vouchers to brokers at cents on the dollar to purchase what is really wanted (often drugs, but also things like sneakers for the kids). If you want a simple, low cost to operate system, dole out money. If you don't trust recipients to spend the money wisely, give them what you want them to have (meals). But as soon as scrip is involved, secondary markets evolve ensuring that the welfare recipient ends up with less than 100 cents on the dollar and some shady operators make big profits.
You're thinking about this the wrong way. Food stamps encourage people to learn about discounting and trading. It helps people really understand money. Many a Goldman trader started by buying food stamps at 25 cents in the the dollar.
Labour will soon be 500,000 strong,a true mass membership party.None of the party's servants in Westminster can ignore that.The Tory party looks to have well it stitch-up to avoid their membership.
Yes, Corbynism *is* popular with parts of the population.
Currently mainly younger people of course, with well known voting drawbacks etc.
Mcdonnell however seems to have spotted a mass appeal way forward
If Corby continues to show Will-to-Power, clears out the RedTories via Boundary change 2018-9, he could end with maybe a million members and a party reunited with the poor.
Facing him will be May&Remainiacs with 50k members, who have just finished redefining LEAVE to include being a full member of the EU with 500,000 immigrants pa.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I'm not sure that anyone here is objecting to immigration or reproduction among those on six figure salaries.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I'm not sure that anyone here is objecting to immigration or reproduction among those on six figure salaries.
I see. So in fact Britain is not at breaking point this week, having been there two weeks ago. I'm sure it was just an oversight on Leavers' parts not to have been clearer about that in the heat of the referendum campaign.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
"May has said BREXIT means BREXIT" is not a lot to rely on. She has to say that or she can write off her chances. Whether she means it is another matter.
Of course she means it, most Tory voters voted Leave, she cannot ignore that
Cobblers. She can deliver an EEA version that suits most Remainers and hurts most Leavers trust.
That's a giant electoral raspberry in the making.
Many Home Counties areas voted Remain, those that voted Leave only did so relatively narrowly. Most Middle class Tories will be happy with the EEA on the whole, add them to the 48% who voted Remain you have a clear EEA majority. The white working class Leave voters may not be happy with free movement, nor will some lower middle class Tories but they comprise about a third of the country, enough for a significant UKIP protest vote but nothing more
Only Brighton and St Albans had more than 60% Remain whereas Leave were over 60% in Dartford, Medway, Swale, Dover, Shepway, Thanet, Gravesham, Basildon, Thurrock, Castle Point, Rochford, Maldon, Tendring, Braintree, Harlow, Epping Forrest, Broxbourne and Arun.
Labour will soon be 500,000 strong,a true mass membership party.None of the party's servants in Westminster can ignore that.The Tory party looks to have well it stitch-up to avoid their membership.
Yes, Corbynism *is* popular with parts of the population.
Currently mainly younger people of course, with well known voting drawbacks etc.
Mcdonnell however seems to have spotted a mass appeal way forward
If Corby continues to show Will-to-Power, clears out the RedTories via Boundary change 2018-9, he could end with maybe a million members and a party reunited with the poor.
Facing him will be May&Remainiacs with 50k members, who have just finished redefining LEAVE to include being a full member of the EU with 500,000 immigrants pa.
ps has anyone asked Mr McDonnell if he voted out?
VOTE LABOUR
Comrades!
I voted Labour at the election last year, and LEAVE at EURef
Mike Smithson's original point is sound. As a long-time member of the Conservative Party I would have cause to be aggrieved if there were to be a contrived outcome of the MPs eliminating ballots denying the rank-and-file membership the final say. The Michael Howard situation in 2003 is no precedent to follow - the circumstances are entirely different.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Do feel free to return to it. And I shall continue to feel free to keep pointing out that Leave was dishonest and pandered to xenophobia.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Do feel free to return to it. And I shall continue to feel free to keep pointing out that Leave was dishonest and pandered to xenophobia.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Do feel free to return to it. And I shall continue to feel free to keep pointing out that Leave was dishonest and pandered to xenophobia.
Yep, every single one of the 17,400,000 LEAVERS are Xenophobes, even the Labour-voting BME ones (like yours truly!).
Anyone else checked out Leadsom's voting record? I don't like her based on that alone.
What part of her record in particular? I didn't find anything that might be thought interesting other than that she abstained on legitimising men walking each other up the aisle.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Your usual level of disingenuity I see, you should be a lawyer
As a Conservative member, I would be absolutely incensed if I didn't get to vote on the Leadership/PM. My membership card is "highly likely" to be cut into small pieces and I will take it back in person and a refund asked for.
These "senior tories" should remember we put them in Parliament and we can take that privilege away.
Provided she unfucks the economy and stabilizes GBP, she can do rude things with swine for all I care. We've just had months of the clown act of Boris & Gove pratting around promising contradictory things and Screaming At Migrants. Now I'd like an adult running the country please
Yup
That is what most Tory MPs want, and what most Tory members with jobs and mortgages want.
The Nutters and Fruitcakes won't be happy, but they never are.
What most sensible people in the country want too, Scott.
My fb feed and these self indulgent marches (and my favourite, the planned picnic against Brexit) suggest that being on the losing side of a referendum makes many unable to see the wood for the trees; an inability to understand that the world does not revolve around a) Remainers and also b) the EUref.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Do feel free to return to it. And I shall continue to feel free to keep pointing out that Leave was dishonest and pandered to xenophobia.
hey Remain was dishonest and pandered to greed and fear
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I'm not sure that anyone here is objecting to immigration or reproduction among those on six figure salaries.
I see. So in fact Britain is not at breaking point this week, having been there two weeks ago. I'm sure it was just an oversight on Leavers' parts not to have been clearer about that in the heat of the referendum campaign.
Can we agree that immigration of higher rate taxpayers is generally a good thing, whereas immigration of unskilled Big Issue sellers claiming housing benefit and tax credits is generally a bad thing?
If Corby continues to show Will-to-Power, clears out the RedTories via Boundary change 2018-9, he could end with maybe a million members and a party reunited with the poor.
Facing him will be May&Remainiacs with 50k members, who have just finished redefining LEAVE to include being a full member of the EU with 500,000 immigrants pa.
Theresa May's dream outcome. A Corbyn led Labour party of 1 million members and, errr , 1 million voters.
My fb feed and these self indulgent marches (and my favourite, the planned picnic against Brexit) suggest that being on the losing side of a referendum makes many unable to see the wood for the trees; an inability to understand that the world does not revolve around a) Remainers and also b) the EUref.
That's why on point two you're opposing Theresa May? Nothing to do with the referendum? Donnez moi a break, you're obsessed by the subject.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Do feel free to return to it. And I shall continue to feel free to keep pointing out that Leave was dishonest and pandered to xenophobia.
Yep, every single one of the 17,400,000 LEAVERS are Xenophobes, even the Labour-voting BME ones (like yours truly!).
My main objection to xenophobia as a term, apart from it being the middle-class term for 'racist' is the way it obliterates the target, and renders them animal-like in their irrational fear of the 'other'. -Phobia is just overused.
For example, some people might dislike transgender folk on the basis that we're mentally ill and delusional, consume NHS resources better used elsewhere, suspect MtF transexuals are yet another manifestation of the patriarchy trying undermine the very concept of womanhood, or simply consider us an abomination in the sight of the Lord.
I've no particular objection to that. It's wrong, but not "transphobic", but that's the term that'll be tossed around.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I'm not sure that anyone here is objecting to immigration or reproduction among those on six figure salaries.
I see. So in fact Britain is not at breaking point this week, having been there two weeks ago. I'm sure it was just an oversight on Leavers' parts not to have been clearer about that in the heat of the referendum campaign.
There was more than one Leave campaign, as you well know.
My fb feed and these self indulgent marches (and my favourite, the planned picnic against Brexit) suggest that being on the losing side of a referendum makes many unable to see the wood for the trees; an inability to understand that the world does not revolve around a) Remainers and also b) the EUref.
That's why on point two you're opposing Theresa May? Nothing to do with the referendum? Donnez moi a break, you're obsessed by the subject.
Happy with Theresa - but would prefer Leadsom or Gove.
Definitely not obsessed. As you saw - I'm happy to talk about issues without relating them to the referendum. Which of us was it that brought it back into play?
Incidentally, just won another ton betting on Querrey. Wimbledon champers paid for.
Anyone else checked out Leadsom's voting record? I don't like her based on that alone.
What part of her record in particular? I didn't find anything that might be thought interesting other than that she abstained on legitimising men walking each other up the aisle.
Her record on illness/disability/youth unemployment when compared to her record on taxation on the wealthy. Could just be the way that theyworkforyou present it of course.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Do feel free to return to it. And I shall continue to feel free to keep pointing out that Leave was dishonest and pandered to xenophobia.
hey Remain was dishonest and pandered to greed and fear
And hatred of a strata of British society. Which it continues to feed off. Very nasty people, disappointed Remainers.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
Is this a priority? For the last 6 months Leavers have been telling us that Britain is becoming unsustainably overpopulated. Or is that just the wrong sort of population growth?
I think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation. Not every comment has to pertain to Brexit, surely?
Intriguing non-response to a simple question. Obviously worrying about overpopulation is so last week.
Alastair, stop being so...you. I live in one of the least densely populated areas in the UK. You can stack people like cordwood in the SE if that's what pleases y'all.
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
Do feel free to return to it. And I shall continue to feel free to keep pointing out that Leave was dishonest and pandered to xenophobia.
Yep, every single one of the 17,400,000 LEAVERS are Xenophobes, even the Labour-voting BME ones (like yours truly!).
My main objection to xenophobia as a term, apart from it being the middle-class term for 'racist' is the way it obliterates the target, and renders them animal-like in their irrational fear of the 'other'. -Phobia is just overused.
For example, some people might dislike transgender folk on the basis that we're mentally ill and delusional, consume NHS resources better used elsewhere, suspect MtF transexuals are yet another manifestation of the patriarchy trying undermine the very concept of womanhood, or simply consider us an abomination in the sight of the Lord.
I've no particular objection to that. It's wrong, but not "transphobic", but that's the term that'll be tossed around.
"Homophobia" is a propaganda term if ever there was one.
Labour will soon be 500,000 strong,a true mass membership party.None of the party's servants in Westminster can ignore that.The Tory party looks to have well it stitch-up to avoid their membership.
Yes, Corbynism *is* popular with parts of the population.
Currently mainly younger people of course, with well known voting drawbacks etc.
Mcdonnell however seems to have spotted a mass appeal way forward
If Corby continues to show Will-to-Power, clears out the RedTories via Boundary change 2018-9, he could end with maybe a million members and a party reunited with the poor.
Facing him will be May&Remainiacs with 50k members, who have just finished redefining LEAVE to include being a full member of the EU with 500,000 immigrants pa.
ps has anyone asked Mr McDonnell if he voted out?
VOTE LABOUR
Comrades!
I voted Labour at the election last year, and LEAVE at EURef
I pushed out a *lot* of LABOUR LEAVE leaflets this time, altho obviously not a lab voter. If Corbyn Labour stood on a Platform of reversing a Brexit Betrayal I can see a career as a lab activist.
The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.
What's not to like?
Those trade deals are going to take a minimum of four years to get off the ground and as @rcs1000 has pointed out on a number of occasions, we need to negotiate from a position of strength. A year long recession followed by rising unemployment isn't the position we want to be looking for trade deals from because other nations will know how desperate we are to sign. Like it or not, 35-38% of our exports go to the EU. We can't face barriers to that trade and lose the income on the hopes of signing non-EU deals in the meantime. It is a fantastical policy position.
The real
It needs to be more than a fig leaf. People care more about outcomes than abstracts. Reduce unskilled immigration and people will be fine with FoM I think.
I think we could do a few things ourselves. We need to axe in working benefits, add English language requirements for certain industries, make benefits contributory. On the EU side we could ask for an EU wide increase in waiting days to a year and have them start only once working status is achieved, or for self employed the first invoice date. I think those two moves alone would drastically reduce unskilled and low paid migration.
Agree with much of that but would have a basic minimum for benefits with higher benefits dependent on NI contribution like Germany
Why? People should be encouraged to save and to work. If they have nothing assistance should be provided in the form of food vouchers until they get back into work.
Food vouchers are benefits by another name and what about heating bills, electricity, rental costs etc? In a civilised country I believe everyone should have enough to survive on but to live in any form of comfort requires effort
I resent the idea of "reforming" our benefits system because the EU is wedded to an ideal that was dreamt up in the 1950s.
On 17 Mar 2009: Theresa May voted against requiring public communications providers retain certain categories of communications data, which they generate or process, for a minimum period of 12 months.
On 15 Jul 2014: Theresa May voted in favour of requiring the mass retention of information about communications, (but not the content of those communications); in favour of arrangements to limit access to such information;
Snoopers charters are okay as long as they are not Labour snoopers charters.
Labour will soon be 500,000 strong,a true mass membership party.None of the party's servants in Westminster can ignore that.The Tory party looks to have well it stitch-up to avoid their membership.
Yes, Corbynism *is* popular with parts of the population.
Currently mainly younger people of course, with well known voting drawbacks etc.
Mcdonnell however seems to have spotted a mass appeal way forward
If Corby continues to show Will-to-Power, clears out the RedTories via Boundary change 2018-9, he could end with maybe a million members and a party reunited with the poor.
Facing him will be May&Remainiacs with 50k members, who have just finished redefining LEAVE to include being a full member of the EU with 500,000 immigrants pa.
ps has anyone asked Mr McDonnell if he voted out?
VOTE LABOUR
If you can't get my Mum to return to the Labour fold, you're going to win bugger all. Sorry.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
The whole trouble with Cameron was that very few of statements bear examination. He was the biggest liar to hold the post of PM since Harold Wilson.
But he failed to copy Harold Wilson on the way the PM should campaign at the referendum. Someone wrote a little article about that.
Give some examples of Cameron's "lies" please.........
@DPJHodges: British politics genuinely isn't a fight between Left and Right any more. It's a fight between sensible moderates, and cultists.
in both parties
This is just a pathetic centrist liberal who lives comfortably, who pretends that liberals have solutions to all the world's problems and anyone who disagrees is a cultist/racist/nationalist/etc. etc.
Andrea Leadsom is looking more interesting the more I look at her. Her sister Carolynne Hayley de Putron, who is married to her Guernsey-based funder, banker Peter de Putron, is a director of the Prince's Foundation. I don't think I'll back May after all.
On 17 Mar 2009: Theresa May voted against requiring public communications providers retain certain categories of communications data, which they generate or process, for a minimum period of 12 months.
On 15 Jul 2014: Theresa May voted in favour of requiring the mass retention of information about communications, (but not the content of those communications); in favour of arrangements to limit access to such information;
Snoopers charters are okay as long as they are not Labour snoopers charters. One of the advantages of the government having a tiny majority, is that this sort of illiberal crap is very difficult to get passed!
Labour will soon be 500,000 strong,a true mass membership party.None of the party's servants in Westminster can ignore that.The Tory party looks to have well it stitch-up to avoid their membership.
Yes, Corbynism *is* popular with parts of the population.
Currently mainly younger people of course, with well known voting drawbacks etc.
Mcdonnell however seems to have spotted a mass appeal way forward
If Corby continues to show Will-to-Power, clears out the RedTories via Boundary change 2018-9, he could end with maybe a million members and a party reunited with the poor.
Facing him will be May&Remainiacs with 50k members, who have just finished redefining LEAVE to include being a full member of the EU with 500,000 immigrants pa.
ps has anyone asked Mr McDonnell if he voted out?
VOTE LABOUR
If you can't get my Mum to return to the Labour fold, you're going to win bugger all. Sorry.
Oh! So they are changing the basis of their legal system, massively slashing their top rates of tax, making it considerably easier to sack people, who knew!
France's income tax is nowhere near as bad as we think as every family member adds to your tax threshold. So, someone earning £100,000 with three kids is paying well under 30%.
That is, incidentally, an eminently sensible way of incentivising middle class reproduction....
France is the only country in the world where degree educated woman have TFRs near replacement.
That is something we should look at, however our metropolitan elites do not seem to like engineering nuclear families.
No, it is. When did you last drive on an English motorway? You have to go many miles up the M1 before you get the first chance to hit the speed limit. There is heavy traffic, always, everywhere.
England has the highest population density in Europe, for a large country. The only other EU country which is higher is Malta.
Have you been to Malta? It's horrible on the main island. Too many towns, too many people. That's where we're headed.
I drove on an English motorway last Autumn. It wasn't particularly busy. You may not be able to do 70 in many places but you spend a lot of time over 50.
But the other striking thing about it is that you're driving for miles through virtually nothing. You could add more lanes without a lot of serious logistical difficulties. There's very little of the kind of infrastructure you see in genuinely heavily populated areas like extended sections in tunnels or multiple decks stacked on top of each other. The limiting factor for doing this is cost, and that scales great when spread over more users.
The other thing you notice about England if you only drive there once a year, that might get lost to gradualism if you do it all the time, is that the roads are gradually getting better: Bypasses built, single-lane roads getting upgraded to two, etc. So I don't think the process of turning new people into taxes, and taxes into infrastructure, is particularly broken.
I drive up and down to Portugal and Italy and other parts of Europe several times a year and without doubt the driving in the UK is without fail the most miserable, slow and stressful section of every journey by a country mile.
I think that congestion is true of the SE of England, and around Birmingham and Manchester. Otherwise it’s not too bad.
Possibly but you need the motorways to do any major journey in the UK and they are invariably badly congested even before you begin to factor in accidents and road works. Most of the continent is a dream in comparison
Motorways are invariably badly congested? No, they are not. This is a similar claim to we need more railway capacity because the trains are always full.
Some trains at some times are overfull, in the same way that some parts of some motorways at some times are generally congested. Change your travel behaviour and you can enjoy empty trains and free flowing, if not damn, nearly empty motorways.
P.S. The M11 and A1 route to and from London is a lot nicer drive than the M1
On 17 Mar 2009: Theresa May voted against requiring public communications providers retain certain categories of communications data, which they generate or process, for a minimum period of 12 months.
On 15 Jul 2014: Theresa May voted in favour of requiring the mass retention of information about communications, (but not the content of those communications); in favour of arrangements to limit access to such information;
Snoopers charters are okay as long as they are not Labour snoopers charters. One of the advantages of the government having a tiny majority, is that this sort of illiberal crap is very difficult to get passed!
Agreed. When stupid bills like this are proposed it is a very good think that David Davis et al are in Parliament.
Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
Tell me honestly if you think Leave would have won had they campaigned on joining EFTA and leaving FOM pretty much as it is now?
What will happen in practice is that the slowdown in the UK economy, combined with a recovering EU economy will probably cause immigration to drop in the short term, almost irrespective of what the UK government actually does.
It's ironic that Cameron & Osborne's stewardship of the economy, with record employment has created the increase in immigration that has brought about their demise.....
As Cameron himself put it, 2010-2015, the UK created more jobs than the rest of the EU put together. Of course, the figures don't actually bear much examination, but it's a superb soundbite.
The whole trouble with Cameron was that very few of statements bear examination. He was the biggest liar to hold the post of PM since Harold Wilson.
But he failed to copy Harold Wilson on the way the PM should campaign at the referendum. Someone wrote a little article about that.
Give some examples of Cameron's "lies" please.........
Comments
Court Finds Kerviel, Whose Bets Lost Bank Billions, Was Fired Unfairly
Société Générale ordered to pay trader $511,000; French court says bank ‘could not pretend it hadn’t long been aware of the unauthorized trades’
"Court Finds Kerviel, Whose Bets Lost Bank Billions, Was Fired Unfairly
So for n=1, s=1, complexity is 0
For n =2, with each component having 5 states (corrupt, a little iffy, neutral, somewhat helpful, very helpful), complexity is 25
For n = 10, s = 5, you are already at around complexity of 10 million
And BTW there was approximately 350,000 net immigrants to the UK over 2008 and 2009.
What have you achieved that we can asses and comment on?
The Grim Reaper has had an unfortunately busy 2016 so far.
Using the Wikipedia definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_counties
Only Brighton and St Albans had more than 60% Remain whereas Leave were over 60% in Dartford, Medway, Swale, Dover, Shepway, Thanet, Gravesham, Basildon, Thurrock, Castle Point, Rochford, Maldon, Tendring, Braintree, Harlow, Epping Forrest, Broxbourne and Arun.
Do wish they'd announce the Hulkenberg decision soon.
Does anyone believe Cameron would have said no.
If Leadsome pulls out, all May's other rivals will too. "We need a Leaver as PM" is a stupid line. "Unity" trumps it. There can't be a "Brexit government", because Brexit isn't a party. Tories in office are all "Leavers" now. Why would a "Leaver" be better in negotiations with the EU anyway? I laid Boris and I'm considering backing Theresa even though I don't like backing favourites.
Meanwhile Penny Mordaunt, the most famous "cock" fan in the House of Commons, is supporting Leadsome. Has Leadsome got any other role than whacking Gove out and putting May in next week?
Currently mainly younger people of course, with well known voting drawbacks etc.
Mcdonnell however seems to have spotted a mass appeal way forward
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/01/john-mcdonnell-brexit-will-end-free-movement-of-people
If Corby continues to show Will-to-Power, clears out the RedTories via Boundary change 2018-9, he could end with maybe a million members and a party reunited with the poor.
Facing him will be May&Remainiacs with 50k members, who have just finished redefining LEAVE to include being a full member of the EU with 500,000 immigrants pa.
ps has anyone asked Mr McDonnell if he voted out?
VOTE LABOUR
My view on mass immigration has been based on logistics rather than considering all people unlike me to be untermenschen.
I shall now return to the interesting phenomenon of low fertility in Western countries.
I voted Labour at the election last year, and LEAVE at EURef
his is cool, but so, so wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUoe-9bKa0
Interesting the money she has received from her brother-in-law Peter de Putron, a Guernsey-based banker.
What is is with Osborne and his discredited cronies still thinking they can stitch up the democratic process?
For example, some people might dislike transgender folk on the basis that we're mentally ill and delusional, consume NHS resources better used elsewhere, suspect MtF transexuals are yet another manifestation of the patriarchy trying undermine the very concept of womanhood, or simply consider us an abomination in the sight of the Lord.
I've no particular objection to that. It's wrong, but not "transphobic", but that's the term that'll be tossed around.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/eurokrise/griechenland/die-talente-gehen-400-000-griechen-wegen-finanzkrise-ausgewandert-14320548.html
Definitely not obsessed. As you saw - I'm happy to talk about issues without relating them to the referendum. Which of us was it that brought it back into play?
Incidentally, just won another ton betting on Querrey. Wimbledon champers paid for.
I pushed out a *lot* of LABOUR LEAVE leaflets this time, altho obviously not a lab voter. If Corbyn Labour stood on a Platform of reversing a Brexit Betrayal I can see a career as a lab activist.
in both parties
One of the advantages of the government having a tiny majority, is that this sort of illiberal crap is very difficult to get passed!
Some trains at some times are overfull, in the same way that some parts of some motorways at some times are generally congested. Change your travel behaviour and you can enjoy empty trains and free flowing, if not damn, nearly empty motorways.
P.S. The M11 and A1 route to and from London is a lot nicer drive than the M1
One of the advantages of the government having a tiny majority, is that this sort of illiberal crap is very difficult to get passed!
Agreed. When stupid bills like this are proposed it is a very good think that David Davis et al are in Parliament.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nine-lies-david-cameron-told-6211553