@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
You mean to cocking tell me they can pull together such a proposal in a day, or else already had it in their back pockets?! We might have gone for that! But it's obviously too late to offer it to us now, even if there were so inclined. So others will reap the benefits.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
Amazing how quick Germany and France can cobble something together when they need to.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
You mean to cocking tell me they can pull together such a proposal in a day, or else already had it in their back pockets?! We might have gone for that! But it's obviously too late to offer it to us now, even if there were so inclined. So others will reap the benefits.
I'd be interested to know why Remain underperformed expectations in Newham, Hounslow, Greenwich, Slough.
My guess is that a) the class-dimension trumped the London-dimension and b) the difference between the BAME population and the white population wasn't as great as people had speculated
People from Asia, West Indies and Africa resent being discriminated against by the EU rules on immigration.
FWIW this was summary of the day that I've just received from my broker. Mu bold
Following a largely unexpected result in the EU referendum, the FTSE 100 opened the day down 8 per cent. By the end of trading markets had regained some composure with the FTSE 100 ending the day down 2.5 per cent. Europe saw heavier falls particularly in the periphery with Spanish and Italian equities down 11 per cent. In terms of sectors, banks have universally underperformed but encouragingly the Bank of England and European Central Bank have publicly committed to ensuring liquidity to the financial systems. Though there is still a lot of uncertainty and whilst we have next week to navigate, the worst fears of many do not (so far) seem to have been realised. Whilst sterling has fallen 7 per cent against the dollar this is well short of the consensus forecast which predicted a 15 per cent drop on a vote to leave. We have been well positioned for this outcome having previously taken an allocation to the US Dollar. Our existing UK Gilts exposure has also provided diversification. Over the next days, weeks and months we can now focus on the investment opportunities that this outcome has provided.
How does it follow from the information given here that "many voted for LEAVE because they thought it wouldn’t happen"? I suspect most Leavers did the same as me: voted for the result they wanted, but expected others to lose their nerve in the booth. It just happens that the public as a whole is more staunch than we expected.
exactly.
I hope 'experts' will stop spouting crap and be a bit more humble. not holding my breath though
You might be wise to wait to see whether they were right or not before tell;ing them to shut up.
We had an "expert currency trader" on here, can't remember his name, who was adamant that Sterling would fall to parity levels with EUR and hit 1.05 with USD. Cicero of this parish also has given some outlandish views of market movements that didn't materialise today, yet he is still her trying to spread doom and gloom.
It will be a bumpy ride, but this nation has been through worse and we will come out stronger and with a better democracy for it. The centre of power has moved one step closer to voters for a very large number of issues and we're no longer under ECJ jurisdiction. That is worth whatever comes out way IMO.
And that is a very fair view. Hopefully, a majority will continue to see it that way too. We are, of course, still under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, though, and will be for several more years. If you get the EEA/EFTA deal you want we will be after that as well.
How do we make our democracy better?
We wouldn't be under ECJ jurisdiction. We would instead be under the EFTA court and only for issues relating to trade, not anything else. The ECJ would no longer apply their worldview on our own and we would be able to judge ECHR rulings in our own courts again according to our laws, not the EU/ECJ's fundamental charter.
That was one of the biggest victories last night, we have reclaimed our own laws which suit our way of life.
The EFTA court applies ECJ case law.
Not all the time and only for trade. It's a big win.
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
Who though? Are the Three Quid Army going to abandon Corbyn? Is the EU a bigger prize than socialism? Or are the EU and socialism one and the same? In which case, forget the election win....
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
You mean to cocking tell me they can pull together such a proposal in a day, or else already had it in their back pockets?! We might have gone for that! But it's obviously too late to offer it to us now, even if there were so inclined. So others will reap the benefits.
Britain saves Europe once again .
It just confirms my suspicion - they didn't really want us to remain. They obviously made the same assessment I did, which was it was not good for the EU to have us inside and constantly bickering, even as an associate member, so a crap deal was presented as all that could be had, and we were to be grateful to get it, in the hope we'd leave.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Yes, well we were the main nation standing against EU integration, we took all the heat for it while Poland reaped the benefits while not standing in our corner. With friends like them who needs enemies?
Poland didn't just get benefits. Losing a chunk of your educated working age population has negative effects.
Yes, but that's a different argument, Poland now looks very lonely as a nation against integration.
Well they can do what we just did if they want to.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
You mean to cocking tell me they can pull together such a proposal in a day, or else already had it in their back pockets?! We might have gone for that! But it's obviously too late to offer it to us now, even if there were so inclined. So others will reap the benefits.
"suggesting" covers a multitude of sins.
But it shows a willingness to bend that was entirely absent until it was too late for us.
I'd be interested to know why Remain underperformed expectations in Newham, Hounslow, Greenwich, Slough.
My guess is that a) the class-dimension trumped the London-dimension and b) the difference between the BAME population and the white population wasn't as great as people had speculated
People from Asia, West Indies and Africa resent being discriminated against by the EU rules on immigration.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Astonishing. If Remain had won today, I would have been gutted. However, I would have ACCEPTED it. These nutters do not even want a democracy, let alone public referenda.
If that petition were implemented, we could end up with an actual neverendum. There's no escape clause if the referendums repeatedly throw up results which don't match the criteria.
But I guess from the date it only went up yesterday or today?
There would have been an equivalent petition by now had the result been reversed, so Brexiters are just as determined or whingey depending on how you see it.
Markets behave like sheep, they startle easily but soon go back to where they started.
The initial shock has been so much weaker than some were predicting that it is hard to see there will be any long term impact. And of course, that will heavily undermine any future Project Fears.
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
They really, really wouldn't.
Deja vu of Labour's GE loss.
They really are irredeemable.
This London groupthink of "Labour should ignore the will of the people" is coming from exactly the same people who thought it was inconceivable that Leave would win in the first place.
Very few Labour Leave voters would vote for such a Labour party, while atleast half of the very wealthy Remain vote would prioritise their pocketbooks and still vote Tory even if they agreed with Labour more on the EU.
Shocking vox pops from Hartlepool on radio 5. Leave voters blaming 'the immigrants ruining the nhs', 'I don't know why I voted leave' etc. To hell with the political correctness here, and I'm happy saying this as I'm from a similar background and know it well, but these people are thick, self destructive, intolerant. I escaped and I never want anything to do with them again; that they can spread that destruction nationally is a sick, sick joke. I don't want them pandered to, I want them to suffer. Not PC I know, but the nice comfy middle class here don't have to deal with them, just needing to use their ignorance from the other end of the country. Shame on you. Get out there and see what you have wrought.
There is a curious element of sudden appropriation of a kind of politically correct version of "working class solidarity" by essentially middle class regional and rural england, only since the start of this campaign. Very odd. It doesn't permit discussion of the kind of sentiment you've mentioned.
I'd be interested to know why Remain underperformed expectations in Newham, Hounslow, Greenwich, Slough.
My guess is that a) the class-dimension trumped the London-dimension and b) the difference between the BAME population and the white population wasn't as great as people had speculated
People from Asia, West Indies and Africa resent being discriminated against by the EU rules on immigration.
Cameron offered a referendum to placate his right-wing and win the 2015 general election. In return it bought him another 12 months of power and a place in the pantheon of Prime Minsters alongside Eden.
Good call.
Yeah but it wasn't supposed to go like that... Wasn't a distraught Downing St, source quoted as saying "This wasn't supposed to happen" at 5am?
PMs - after a while they start believing their own bullshit. It always gets them in the end. Cameron was just quicker than most.
Oh, I don't know, Blair just beat him with the Iraq invasion in 2003.
European stock exchanges - AEX (Amsterdam), DAX MDAX SDAX TECDAX (Frankfurt), CAC40 (Paris), BEL20 (Brussels), IBEX (Madrid), SMI SPI (Zurich).. have all lost more than the FTSE100 today
It's a bit more complicated than that; you need to look at constant currency changes. I.e. if you had a pound in the CAC and a pound in the FTSE, you gained back everything you lost in the Euro's appreciation versus Sterling.
I know, and we have fallen by over 5% against almost every currency in the world today. But a fair bit of that is a correction to the pound getting pumped up overnight by traders who thought we were nailed on to remain.
err - the £ was 1.40 to the euro last summer - the slide began pretty well as soon as the referendum was announced. I would not be sanguine we've reached the bottom today.
Err - it was 1.23 in April. So What?
If you can't spot it I can't be bothered to explain it. Enjoy your victory.
And it was 1.14 in Aug 2013, and 1.24 in Aug 2014. Are you sure the 'slide' was just down to the referendum?
All the commentators linked it to the uncertainty just as they are now saying the £ has some way down to go as we face maybe 2 years or more of further uncertainty - that is the key word which drives the currency markets especially when your currency is not the dollar or the yen!
How does it follow from the information given here that "many voted for LEAVE because they thought it wouldn’t happen"? I suspect most Leavers did the same as me: voted for the result they wanted, but expected others to lose their nerve in the booth. It just happens that the public as a whole is more staunch than we expected.
exactly.
I hope 'experts' will stop spouting crap and be a bit more humble. not holding my breath though
You might be wise to wait to see whether they were right or not before tell;ing them to shut up.
We had an "expert currency trader" on here, can't remember his name, who was adamant that Sterling would fall to parity levels with EUR and hit 1.05 with USD. Cicero of this parish also has given some outlandish views of market movements that didn't materialise today, yet he is still her trying to spread doom and gloom.
It will be a bumpy ride, but this nation has been through worse and we will come out stronger and with a better democracy for it. The centre of power has moved one step closer to voters for a very large number of issues and we're no longer under ECJ jurisdiction. That is worth whatever comes out way IMO.
And that is a very fair view. Hopefully, a majority will continue to see it that way too. We are, of course, still under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, though, and will be for several more years. If you get the EEA/EFTA deal you want we will be after that as well.
How do we make our democracy better?
We wouldn't be under ECJ jurisdiction. We would instead be under the EFTA court and only for issues relating to trade, not anything else. The ECJ would no longer apply their worldview on our own and we would be able to judge ECHR rulings in our own courts again according to our laws, not the EU/ECJ's fundamental charter.
That was one of the biggest victories last night, we have reclaimed our own laws which suit our way of life.
The EFTA court applies ECJ case law.
Not all the time and only for trade. It's a big win.
For anything that impacts on the Single Market. That can be anything from employment law to intellectual property.
As someone who voted Leave I have no buyer's remorse whatsoever. My primary reason for voting Leave was because not only could I not name the 28 commissioners nor 5 Presidents but if I didn't like what direction they were taking us in, I could not vote to remove them.
Immigration for me is a minor concern but only because of the impact on Housing, the NHS (especially GP's appointments and Dentist availability), Schools etc. As a middle class, reasonably well off person with offspring who have flown the nest immigration doesn't impact me in the way that it would impact a low-paid or unskilled out of work person and I think that appears to be a significant factor in Leave winning.
Name calling people who have rarely or never voted before because they felt, finally, to get to the polling station shows a total lack of empathy of the feelings of many people in this country. As an ex-Chairman of a Conservative Association I find it incredible that I understand this better than Jezza!
I am an eternal optimist and I believe once the hooha has died down life will go on. The pound will hit about $1.20 before heading in an upward trajectory; we will strike a deal with the EU on trade; an Aussie style points based system will be introduced and the UK will not break up
One last point: The Leave lead was about one million - approximately the same number as voted Leave in Scotland I believe. They may not be at the Euro's but they certainly won this tournament
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Just think of the SNP seats in Scotland
If Boris denies the SNP a second referendum they will win every single seat at the next GE, whenever that is held.
Out of interest, can the Scottish government call an early Scottish Parliament election?
@SkyNewsBreak: German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
Anyone trying to understand why London is different must take account of the fact that nearly 40% of the population was born abroad.
Yep, the most dynamic and economically successful part of the UK is the part in which there are most immigrants.
We have semantically overloaded the word 'immigrant' until it's become completely useless as a signifier.
I know your contention is that those Leavers who are dead set on a dramatic reduction in immigration will be furious, but I think we're just going to have to accept that. Assuming we're not envisaging armed insurrection, the only consequence I can think of is a series of one-term, possible short-lived administrations.
It is unrealistic to expect immigration to come down quickly. I'm not even convinced its desirable in the short term. There's just too much heat and light. We can certainly do much more along the lines of the Tech City model to make sure that London gets what it needs in terms of skills/experience.
We also need to make sure the Migration Impact fund (or whatever they're calling it these days) is beefed up and employed appropriately.
Maybe we need a Minister for Integration or somesuch. Apologies for being a bit incoherent. It's been a long couple of days .
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Then they should have offered it three months ago. Too late now.
@SkyNewsBreak: German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
Basically what Cameron could have got without the whole docking malarky. We'll have to see what the costs will be, and what they propose about free movement.
just got off the phone to my daughter who works in Republic of Ireland.
Big fear is the North asking for a unity referendum and nobody in the Republic wants the North
Not even the SInn Feinners?
I saw a poll once where 25% of Sinn Féin voters in the North preferred to be in the UK. And also polls where a remarkably small percentage of southerners wanted the North to join them. Another titbit is that there is surprisingly little cross-border trade - sorry no numbers, but Irish politicians were commenting on it. It doesn't seem to be very straightforward.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
Apart from a few in the City of London, they wouldn't. They just wouldn't. The true blue shire Tories care FAR more about keeping their tax bill as low as possible (an issue on which Labour will never outbid the Tories) than they care about staying in the EU.
@SkyNewsBreak: German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
Make it senior associate partner country and we've got a deal. Oh, and throw in a company car as well.
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
They really, really wouldn't.
Deja vu of Labour's GE loss.
They really are irredeemable.
This London groupthink of "Labour should ignore the will of the people" is coming from exactly the same people who thought it was inconceivable that Leave would win in the first place.
Very few Labour Leave voters would vote for such a Labour party, while atleast half of the very wealthy Remain vote would prioritise their pocketbooks and still vote Tory even if they agreed with Labour more on the EU.
The divide in Labour between the traditionalist eurosceptic left and the pro-business europhile right is irreparable anyway now. The referendum and Corbynistas have seen to that.
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
They really, really wouldn't.
Deja vu of Labour's GE loss.
They really are irredeemable.
This London groupthink of "Labour should ignore the will of the people" is coming from exactly the same people who thought it was inconceivable that Leave would win in the first place.
Very few Labour Leave voters would vote for such a Labour party, while atleast half of the very wealthy Remain vote would prioritise their pocketbooks and still vote Tory even if they agreed with Labour more on the EU.
You really don't think there are Tory votes for grabs after all this? I don't even think Labour would need to go down the New Labour route to attract Tory voters, just someone safe, inoffensive and competent could be seen as an antidote to a possible Boris led government.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Then they should have offered it three months ago. Too late now.
Was Cameron asking for it? It seems unsporting to criticise the EU for not offering much at the same time as saying that Cameron's renegotiation was a sham.
@SkyNewsBreak: German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
Sounds pretty nice, I wonder what it would entail - wouldn't be enough to stop the SNP going for a referendum, but enough to prevent Scotland breaking away from rUK? A fine line between retaining enough to please Remainers and not pissing off Leavers.
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
They really, really wouldn't.
Deja vu of Labour's GE loss.
They really are irredeemable.
This London groupthink of "Labour should ignore the will of the people" is coming from exactly the same people who thought it was inconceivable that Leave would win in the first place.
Very few Labour Leave voters would vote for such a Labour party, while atleast half of the very wealthy Remain vote would prioritise their pocketbooks and still vote Tory even if they agreed with Labour more on the EU.
You really don't think there are Tory votes for grabs after all this? I don't even think Labour would need to go down the New Labour route to attract Tory voters, just someone safe, inoffensive and competent could be seen as an antidote to a possible Boris led government.
Exactly... pro-business europhile like Chuka.........
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
Apart from a few in the City of London, they wouldn't. They just wouldn't. The true blue shire Tories care FAR more about keeping their tax bill as low as possible (an issue on which Labour will never outbid the Tories) than they care about staying in the EU.
Shocking vox pops from Hartlepool on radio 5. Leave voters blaming 'the immigrants ruining the nhs', 'I don't know why I voted leave' etc. To hell with the political correctness here, and I'm happy saying this as I'm from a similar background and know it well, but these people are thick, self destructive, intolerant. I escaped and I never want anything to do with them again; that they can spread that destruction nationally is a sick, sick joke. I don't want them pandered to, I want them to suffer. Not PC I know, but the nice comfy middle class here don't have to deal with them, just needing to use their ignorance from the other end of the country. Shame on you. Get out there and see what you have wrought.
There is a curious element of sudden appropriation of a kind of politically correct version of "working class solidarity" by essentially middle class regional and rural england, only since the start of this campaign. Very odd. It doesn't permit discussion of the kind of sentiment you've mentioned.
I do love the "nhs is full of immigrants" line. The bit of the NHS that is full of immigrants is the staff. Walkround a hospital, you will see the the vast majority of patients are old British people often being cared for by immigrants. The Leave campaign was of course happy to not challange this idea. I still can't get over Farage's interview this morning regarding the £350 million line. I think this will stop either Gove or Boris becoming PM. They will be challenged on it all the time. The picture of the bus will be diaplayed all the time and the question will be "how can we trust you?"
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
No. The Leave vote must be respected not overturned as one promise in an election manifesto.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
Apart from a few in the City of London, they wouldn't. They just wouldn't. The true blue shire Tories care FAR more about keeping their tax bill as low as possible (an issue on which Labour will never outbid the Tories) than they care about staying in the EU.
All the Shire Tories would have voted Leave.
I was surprised at how lukewarm the Leave vote was in at least some of the Tory Shires - beat Remain by only a few points, below the expected level even herein Wiltshire. Apparently due to middle classness.
@SkyNewsBreak: German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
Sounds good. Hopefully we'll have some smart negotiators on our side that can get a good deal (unlike what Cameron actually brought to the table). If Boris is leading the negotiations though....ugh.
Also I would have thought that George Osborne's political career has also died alongside Cameron's today. It'll be one of the biggest miracles in British politics if this result can kill off Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party as well.
I've just been looking at some details. The North voted more heavily to Leave than the South (excluding London) by 57% to 52%.
The Conservative-voting Stockbroker Belt around London, and down the M3 and M4 favoured Remain.
And just look at how many Labour heartland authorities voted to Leave, sometimes by huge margins; Sheffield, Wigan, Rotherham, Barnsley, South Tyneside, Luton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesborough, Warrington, Wolverhampton, Doncaster, Sandwell, Wakefield, Kirklees, Durham, Mansfield (70%!), the South Wales Valleys. Places that have been voting Labour since the 1920's often.
I wouldn't be surprised if most Labour supporters outside Greater London and Scotland voted Leave. I suspect that while Conservatives favoured Leave more than Labour supporters, the differential was smaller than polls were showing. I think Labour Leave won this.
And, that goes to show how daft Blairite MPs are to wish to overthrow Corbyn on the one issue where he's closer to public opinion than they are.
@SkyNewsBreak: German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
Make it senior associate partner country and we've got a deal. Oh, and throw in a company car as well.
We'll even take a cut in our number of MEP's by half. We'll halve our membership fees and reduce the funding that comes back to us by half. That should stop those who are net beneficiaries from going down the Associate membership route.
All existing trade arrangements stay in place.
Of course, Senior Associate members are not signed up to the free movement of labour. We choose our borders, who comes through them, who gets expelled out of them. The judicary of the Senior Associate members get precedence over any EU laws and judgments. And we can leave the ECHR if our national politicians so decide.
Oh, and we get the use of your wife at weekends....
@SkyNewsBreak: German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref
Make it senior associate partner country and we've got a deal. Oh, and throw in a company car as well.
A second Scottish independence referendum looks inevitable now. It would surely be impossible for Boris to deny one.
Why? They had one less than two years ago.
The devolution deal is to be implemented and then there would of course be the UK's new, EU blinkers off, global relationship to factor in.
Circumstances can reasonably be argued to have changed. If the stories of true of yet another rush of SNP supporters, it's already too late to save the Union
a) Increase exports and close the trade deficit, and
b) Increase inflation to the 2% target specified to the B of E by the Government
And c) put up prices, especially those relating to fuel.
Oil was down 5% on the day and Sterling is down about about 8% on the day, oil prices won't go up a lot, and we've yet to see what the deal is going to be, if it is EFTA with some restrictions on free movement I expect most of that loss to reverse, some of it has already unwound because the shock has worn off.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
I'd strongly consider it and he'd win a landslide of my Facebook friends.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
Apart from a few in the City of London, they wouldn't. They just wouldn't. The true blue shire Tories care FAR more about keeping their tax bill as low as possible (an issue on which Labour will never outbid the Tories) than they care about staying in the EU.
All the Shire Tories would have voted Leave.
I was surprised at how lukewarm the Leave vote was in at least some of the Tory Shires - beat Remain by only a few points, below the expected level even herein Wiltshire. Apparently due to middle classness.
Monmouthshire voted Remain - 50.4%. It's probably the wealthiest area in Wales bar Cardiff. Most people round here aren't ideologically anti-EU, it was the Remain campaign that pissed people off, rightly or wrongly.
I've just been looking at some details. The North voted more heavily to Leave than the South (excluding London) by 57% to 52%.
The Conservative-voting Stockbroker Belt around London, and down the M3 and M4 favoured Remain.
And just look at how many Labour heartland authorities voted to Leave, sometimes by huge margins; Sheffield, Wigan, Rotherham, Barnsley, South Tyneside, Luton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesborough, Warrington, Wolverhampton, Doncaster, Sandwell, Wakefield, Kirklees, Durham, Mansfield (70%!), the South Wales Valleys. Places that have been voting Labour since the 1920's often.
I wouldn't be surprised if most Labour supporters outside Greater London and Scotland voted Leave. I suspect that while Conservatives favoured Leave more than Labour supporters, the differential was smaller than polls were showing. I think Labour Leave won this.
And, that goes to show how daft Blairite MPs are to wish to overthrow Corbyn on the one issue where he's closer to public opinion than they are.
Labour rightwingers completely lost their heads months ago. The last time they plotted a coup was over Syria, where they neglected to notice that most party members supported Jeremy Corbyn on that topic to the hilt.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
That could be an inspired move. They'd surely get 96% of all the Remainers plus Tribal Labour. We'd be in Blair landslide territory and beyond.
Big question for the Tory Remainers: Would you vote for a Chuka-led centrist Labour party standing on such a ticket?*
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
No. The Leave vote must be respected not overturned as one promise in an election manifesto.
I've just been looking at some details. The North voted more heavily to Leave than the South (excluding London) by 57% to 52%.
The Conservative-voting Stockbroker Belt around London, and down the M3 and M4 favoured Remain.
And just look at how many Labour heartland authorities voted to Leave, sometimes by huge margins; Sheffield, Wigan, Rotherham, Barnsley, South Tyneside, Luton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesborough, Warrington, Wolverhampton, Doncaster, Sandwell, Wakefield, Kirklees, Durham, Mansfield (70%!), the South Wales Valleys. Places that have been voting Labour since the 1920's often.
I wouldn't be surprised if most Labour supporters outside Greater London and Scotland voted Leave. I suspect that while Conservatives favoured Leave more than Labour supporters, the differential was smaller than polls were showing. I think Labour Leave won this.
And, that goes to show how daft Blairite MPs are to wish to overthrow Corbyn on the one issue where he's closer to public opinion than they are.
The only council area in the West Midlands with more than 35% graduates was the only one to vote Remain: Warwick. I was banking on qualifications being one of the main determinants with my spreadsheet so pleased to see it confirmed. Pretty much the same thing with Rushcliffe in the East Midlands.
Shocking vox pops from Hartlepool on radio 5. Leave voters blaming 'the immigrants ruining the nhs', 'I don't know why I voted leave' etc. To hell with the political correctness here, and I'm happy saying this as I'm from a similar background and know it well, but these people are thick, self destructive, intolerant. I escaped and I never want anything to do with them again; that they can spread that destruction nationally is a sick, sick joke. I don't want them pandered to, I want them to suffer. Not PC I know, but the nice comfy middle class here don't have to deal with them, just needing to use their ignorance from the other end of the country. Shame on you. Get out there and see what you have wrought.
There is a curious element of sudden appropriation of a kind of politically correct version of "working class solidarity" by essentially middle class regional and rural england, only since the start of this campaign. Very odd. It doesn't permit discussion of the kind of sentiment you've mentioned.
It is a minority and those from such areas knew who they were (much less so now with our atomised society compared to 20/30 years ago). Often along the old divide between the working poor and what would become the underclass. Those supposedly cuddly grandmothers now, in the seventies would be regularly heard berating the blacks and Pakis, the phrase ' Enoch was right' being particularly common. Strangely intiolerant of some 'scroungers' who were to others who were just 'on the dole' (I think the difference was to do with entitlement). When they'd had a few drinks, well, steer clear. Dark times, best forgotten.
a) Increase exports and close the trade deficit, and
b) Increase inflation to the 2% target specified to the B of E by the Government
And c) put up prices, especially those relating to fuel.
Oil was down 5% on the day and Sterling is down about about 8% on the day, oil prices won't go up a lot, and we've yet to see what the deal is going to be, if it is EFTA with some restrictions on free movement I expect most of that loss to reverse, some of it has already unwound because the shock has worn off.
@Louiseaileen70: BBG head: "GERMAN & FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS TO PRESENT PAPER TO COLLEAGUES FROM 6 FOUNDING EU MEMBERS ON SAT SUGGESTING A FLEXIBLE EU"
@RupertMyers: Many people would vote for and campaign for a new Labour leader to win a general election on a platform of keeping Britain in the EU.
You mean to cocking tell me they can pull together such a proposal in a day, or else already had it in their back pockets?! We might have gone for that! But it's obviously too late to offer it to us now, even if there were so inclined. So others will reap the benefits.
They're winging it now, shitting themselves that democracy and self-determination might start spreading around the other 27 countries.
It's clear that no-one in the EU or our own govt saw this coming.
Comments
Following a largely unexpected result in the EU referendum, the FTSE 100 opened the day down 8 per cent. By the end of trading markets had regained some composure with the FTSE 100 ending the day down 2.5 per cent. Europe saw heavier falls particularly in the periphery with Spanish and Italian equities down 11 per cent. In terms of sectors, banks have universally underperformed but encouragingly the Bank of England and European Central Bank have publicly committed to ensuring liquidity to the financial systems. Though there is still a lot of uncertainty and whilst we have next week to navigate, the worst fears of many do not (so far) seem to have been realised. Whilst sterling has fallen 7 per cent against the dollar this is well short of the consensus forecast which predicted a 15 per cent drop on a vote to leave. We have been well positioned for this outcome having previously taken an allocation to the US Dollar. Our existing UK Gilts exposure has also provided diversification. Over the next days, weeks and months we can now focus on the investment opportunities that this outcome has provided.
They really are irredeemable.
just got off the phone to my daughter who works in Republic of Ireland.
Big fear is the North asking for a unity referendum and nobody in the Republic wants the North
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/remember-that-time-nigel-farage-said-52-48-votes-should-lead-to-second-referendum-5963900/
The initial shock has been so much weaker than some were predicting that it is hard to see there will be any long term impact. And of course, that will heavily undermine any future Project Fears.
Very few Labour Leave voters would vote for such a Labour party, while atleast half of the very wealthy Remain vote would prioritise their pocketbooks and still vote Tory even if they agreed with Labour more on the EU.
Immigration for me is a minor concern but only because of the impact on Housing, the NHS (especially GP's appointments and Dentist availability), Schools etc. As a middle class, reasonably well off person with offspring who have flown the nest immigration doesn't impact me in the way that it would impact a low-paid or unskilled out of work person and I think that appears to be a significant factor in Leave winning.
Name calling people who have rarely or never voted before because they felt, finally, to get to the polling station shows a total lack of empathy of the feelings of many people in this country. As an ex-Chairman of a Conservative Association I find it incredible that I understand this better than Jezza!
I am an eternal optimist and I believe once the hooha has died down life will go on. The pound will hit about $1.20 before heading in an upward trajectory; we will strike a deal with the EU on trade; an Aussie style points based system will be introduced and the UK will not break up
One last point: The Leave lead was about one million - approximately the same number as voted Leave in Scotland I believe. They may not be at the Euro's but they certainly won this tournament
His snivelling mug has been noticeably absent since yesterday
Out of interest, can the Scottish government call an early Scottish Parliament election?
I know your contention is that those Leavers who are dead set on a dramatic reduction in immigration will be furious, but I think we're just going to have to accept that. Assuming we're not envisaging armed insurrection, the only consequence I can think of is a series of one-term, possible short-lived administrations.
It is unrealistic to expect immigration to come down quickly. I'm not even convinced its desirable in the short term. There's just too much heat and light. We can certainly do much more along the lines of the Tech City model to make sure that London gets what it needs in terms of skills/experience.
We also need to make sure the Migration Impact fund (or whatever they're calling it these days) is beefed up and employed appropriately.
Maybe we need a Minister for Integration or somesuch. Apologies for being a bit incoherent. It's been a long couple of days
*You can safely assume in such a scenario that the Corbynites and Momentum group will have been exorcised from anywhere near the leadership
They moved the timing after the FTPA
What are the odds on:
* EU suddenly putting new flexible deal together.
* Tory MPs asking Cameron to stay for now.
* New EU offering goes to public and Remain wins this time.
* Cameron continues as PM...
?
And well done to all of those with winning bets on the referendum.
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy
Aha.... Interesting that the GQ political editor is promoting this very idea on Twitter...
The devolution deal is to be implemented and then there would of course be the UK's new, EU blinkers off, global relationship to factor in.
Also I would have thought that George Osborne's political career has also died alongside Cameron's today. It'll be one of the biggest miracles in British politics if this result can kill off Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party as well.
I've just been looking at some details. The North voted more heavily to Leave than the South (excluding London) by 57% to 52%.
The Conservative-voting Stockbroker Belt around London, and down the M3 and M4 favoured Remain.
And just look at how many Labour heartland authorities voted to Leave, sometimes by huge margins; Sheffield, Wigan, Rotherham, Barnsley, South Tyneside, Luton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesborough, Warrington, Wolverhampton, Doncaster, Sandwell, Wakefield, Kirklees, Durham, Mansfield (70%!), the South Wales Valleys. Places that have been voting Labour since the 1920's often.
I wouldn't be surprised if most Labour supporters outside Greater London and Scotland voted Leave. I suspect that while Conservatives favoured Leave more than Labour supporters, the differential was smaller than polls were showing. I think Labour Leave won this.
And, that goes to show how daft Blairite MPs are to wish to overthrow Corbyn on the one issue where he's closer to public opinion than they are.
All existing trade arrangements stay in place.
Of course, Senior Associate members are not signed up to the free movement of labour. We choose our borders, who comes through them, who gets expelled out of them. The judicary of the Senior Associate members get precedence over any EU laws and judgments. And we can leave the ECHR if our national politicians so decide.
Oh, and we get the use of your wife at weekends....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb4gC-dDnU0
some kind of disruption at the start...
@SophieWarnes: Bank source not holding back here https://t.co/XGe6q3Qpum
He'd be marmalised by Boris however.
My granddad was Irish - maybe I should join the queue.
Continent Cut Off.
It's clear that no-one in the EU or our own govt saw this coming.