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  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2016
    john_zims said:

    @Chameleon

    'Lol, Farron.'


    Who ?

    MP for Sevenoaks and Secretary of State for Defence
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,255
    If we leave the EU, people from the EU could still come to work for the NHS if the government deemed it suitable. Isn't that the point? Why isn't anyone saying this?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Why haven't LEAVE used Dan Hannan on the big stage?

    He is a first class communicator.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Chameleon said:

    Shit.. That was horrific from Andrea.

    Not good, I agree.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376
    Oh no !

    Not a donation !
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,024
    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a fly buzzing round Sadiq ?

    Did he swallow it?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a fly buzzing round Sadiq ?

    Its because he is talking SHIT
    I find his clever dick manner rather annoying. I can't tell if he's any good or not.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    For all the hype, I don't find Andrea Leadsom particularly impressive. Not quite as robotic and scripted as Patel, but close.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Based on this site Leave should be 1/20
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,579

    Frances O' Grady stinger about BNP donation to Vote leave

    Difficult one. It doesn't further their position for staying in the EU.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    How hard is it to atfq? Say that if we leave the EU we'll be able to pick people that we need (i.e. just because we leave doesn't mean that we have to turn down nurses and doctors all of a sudden.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    I honestly think Jez has done his best to throw this election and so it continues with small things like this.
    He is transparently for Leave, in just the same way that his friend Kelvin Hopkins is. Jez hasnt changed his mind about anything since puberty.
    The suprising thing is that he has effectively shut up the Labour establishment on their only big cause left. The man is in danger of becoming a legend.

    Labour Leave has been great. Corbyn probably wishes he was leading it.
    But if he had, Mr Rising, it probably would not have been great.
  • Project Hate from Khan to Boris - Boris knocked over

    A terrible word to use. Dismisses any concern on immigration as racist. That is what backfires with many voters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735
    Fenster said:

    Why haven't LEAVE used Dan Hannan on the big stage?

    He is a first class communicator.

    He's always seemed decent in the things i've seen him, but he's been pretty invisible. Now, maybe he's putting in the hard yards I'm not seeing, but it's odd.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376
    Danny565 said:

    For all the hype, I don't find Andrea Leadsom particularly impressive. Not quite as robotic and scripted as Patel, but close.

    Definitely a touch to the right...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107

    Just took herself, who was watching the debate, a cup of tea and caught sight of Ruth Davidson doing finger pointing and being very shouty. Total turn-off for me, cannot abide that sort of behaviour. As I left the room Herself was changing channels to watch something else.

    I am sure I have been told that Davidson was a good and engaging politician, a potential Conservative leader at Westminster. Well, you only get one chance to make a first impression and that was her's for me. Shouty, bossy, woman who likes to point fingers and cannot engage in reasonable debate - file under forget.

    British politics as we once knew it died during this campaign. We now have this reheated US tripe.
  • SeanT said:

    Zingers from Farron and Wollaston - better than the main Remain speakers so far.

    Wollaston is a traitor.
    And we all know what happens to them.....

    Careful what you say Sean.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,040
    Danny565 said:

    For all the hype, I don't find Andrea Leadsom particularly impressive. Not quite as robotic and scripted as Patel, but close.

    No, she is pretty poor.

  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,918
    tlg86 said:

    FCUK the cultural and social benefits, Sadiq!

    The sort of bollocks that only appeals to North Londoners, generally in big mansions (with gated drives).
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    This " a points system means more migration " rebuttal is weak.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,687
    Project Hate and the ex-BNP donation both strong lines - Leadsom wittering evasively in reply. Khan praising Cameron nonplussed the audience and I don't think that worked.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,122
    Chameleon said:

    How hard is it to atfq? Say that if we leave the EU we'll be able to pick people that we need (i.e. just because we leave doesn't mean that we have to turn down nurses and doctors all of a sudden.

    Would you trust the government to make individual decisions about anything else? Why do you think they they'd do a good job on this?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,026
    Vox pop from my (undecided, and probably-not-voting) wife: Leave were more convincing than remain. Liked the two leave women (neither of whom she'd heard of). The 'belligerent Scottish woman' annoyed her.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,202
    Andrea is not performing as well this time as in the studio.

    Gisella, meanwhile, is knocking things out of the park.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735
    I see Boris has a running gag going - even though it is going personal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,371
    SeanT said:

    Zingers from Farron and Wollaston - better than the main Remain speakers so far.

    Wollaston is a traitor.
    Not sure that using the same word that the (alleged) MP murderer used in court is that wise right now...
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Project Hate from Khan to Boris - Boris knocked over

    A terrible word to use. Dismisses any concern on immigration as racist. That is what backfires with many voters.
    It's not going to win any favour with the WWC on which the referendum may hang. Moreover it drives turnout of them.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    I know what Remain were trying to do with O'Grady. They've got the characterisation and script right but the casting horribly wrong.

    She's terribly wet. You're spot on re the casting choice.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Why is Sadiq advertising Vote Leave material?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376
    Boris seems prepped with a bumper book of Khan quotes lol
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,202
    edited June 2016
    One tactical fail for Remain is to keep referencing the first name of one of the most trusted figures on the Leave side.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    Just took herself, who was watching the debate, a cup of tea and caught sight of Ruth Davidson doing finger pointing and being very shouty. Total turn-off for me, cannot abide that sort of behaviour. As I left the room Herself was changing channels to watch something else.

    I am sure I have been told that Davidson was a good and engaging politician, a potential Conservative leader at Westminster. Well, you only get one chance to make a first impression and that was her's for me. Shouty, bossy, woman who likes to point fingers and cannot engage in reasonable debate - file under forget.

    My thoughts exactly.
    Gisela Stuart the best performer, in my opinion.

  • Fenster said:

    Why haven't LEAVE used Dan Hannan on the big stage?

    He is a first class communicator.

    Probably becuase they would attack him over something he said 10 years before that had nothing to do with the EU. It is how project fear (and hate) works. Just a bunch of snarling attack dogs unable to present a positive image of the EU.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376

    Why is Sadiq advertising Vote Leave material?

    Close up of the £350 million figure lol
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    I'm 90% sure that Leave are doing rather well. I suspect that that is my bias.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Have you got BBC1 on? https://youtu.be/JX2ziMnm2tw
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735

    Shouty, bossy, woman who likes to point fingers and cannot engage in reasonable debate .

    Works for plenty of men, including one on the stage.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Boris much more confident tonight. Wouldn't go so far as to say Prime Ministerial, but not a million miles away.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,024
    I'm a Scottish Conservative, but I've had enough of Ruth.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,284
    Mortimer said:

    Andrea is not performing as well this time as in the studio.

    Gisella, meanwhile, is knocking things out of the park.

    Gisella is totally wasted in the Labour Party. They don't appreciate her and she is a gem. I'd love to see her in a Gove government in charge of something like welfare. She has so much to offer.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,255
    Gisela is class
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    It's clear that Remain has lost the argument and audience.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited June 2016
    It is appropriate that one of the 3 on the REMAIN side have in Frances O'Grady someone "selected" as the only candidate nominated by unions – with 32 of the 54 affiliated unions putting her name forward to be General Secretary of the TUC.

    Just like the EU Presidents.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Cookie said:

    Vox pop from my (undecided, and probably-not-voting) wife: Leave were more convincing than remain. Liked the two leave women (neither of whom she'd heard of). The 'belligerent Scottish woman' annoyed her.

    All Scottish women are belligerent. Hence why I married a foreign bride.

    From Hampshire.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,040
    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735
    Dimbleby finding it hard to stop Boris.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376
    Chameleon said:

    I'm 90% sure that Leave are doing rather well. I suspect that that is my bias.

    Leave doing quite well, Leadsom just needs to watch out a bit and not appear overly right wing. This isn't an internal Tory matter ^^;
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    kle4 said:

    Shouty, bossy, woman who likes to point fingers and cannot engage in reasonable debate .

    Works for plenty of men, including one on the stage.
    Pulpstar said:

    Why is Sadiq advertising Vote Leave material?

    Close up of the £350 million figure lol
    If only Sadiq was playing for Slovakia last night, we'd be up by rather a lot judging by how many own goals he's scoring.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Fenster said:

    Why haven't LEAVE used Dan Hannan on the big stage?

    He is a first class communicator.

    Probably not best to use a figure who the opposition an reply "He wants to destroy the NHS" at everything he says.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,371
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    SeanT said:

    Zingers from Farron and Wollaston - better than the main Remain speakers so far.

    Wollaston is a traitor.
    Not sure that using the same word that the (alleged) MP murderer used in court is that wise right now...
    She is a traitor to herself. She just IS.
    I suspect she is amongst the top 10% of Tory MPs in terms of cross-party respect. I wouldn't dismiss her views quite so readily.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,202
    Leave not doing well enough yet on immigration.

    Come on with the answer to the WC man.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    It's the Leave tactic I'm least happy with, to be honest. But it will work, as you probably agree.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    LOL, bless Dimbleby's naivete, thinking a crowd of thousands at Wembley will be content to just applaud politely.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,918
    edited June 2016

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    I know, they're half-decent. 1-0 up v Czech and could still go through.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Mortimer said:

    Andrea is not performing as well this time as in the studio.

    Gisella, meanwhile, is knocking things out of the park.

    She is. The endless use of Boris' name a la Ed Balls sounds very playground.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553

    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a fly buzzing round Sadiq ?

    Its because he is talking SHIT
    But it's nutritious. 50.1% of flies can't be wrong!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,907
    What was that thing about the BNP donation all about? Rather strange moment...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,040

    Boris much more confident tonight. Wouldn't go so far as to say Prime Ministerial, but not a million miles away.

    I'd say 10 million :-)

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735
    SeanT said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    F*ck off, old bean. It is the EU's established policy that Turkey join. Again, it just is.
    It's not imminent. Other things involving Turkey may well be. Them joining is not.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,579

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    Merkel has got Cameron by the short and curlies and the Leave side know it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,202
    I'm really standing by the Turkey issue - until and unless the British government stop supporting Turkish entry, it says the British government want Turkey in the EU.
  • Jonathan said:

    Traitor should not be used in this debate to describe anyone.

    Agreed.

    Can we make an exception for the late Edward Heath though?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,579
    Bankers again from Frances!
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Is Frances related to Hattie - she's remarkably like her.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    Well Sadiq brought up the leaflet !

    I think people in the audience are just applauding 'their' side regardless of the merits of the arguments.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    kle4 said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    It's the Leave tactic I'm least happy with, to be honest. But it will work, as you probably agree.
    TBH, Turkey is an accession state & it is the Govt.'s position that they should join. Those two facts are fair game imo.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Jonathan said:

    Just took herself, who was watching the debate, a cup of tea and caught sight of Ruth Davidson doing finger pointing and being very shouty. Total turn-off for me, cannot abide that sort of behaviour. As I left the room Herself was changing channels to watch something else.

    I am sure I have been told that Davidson was a good and engaging politician, a potential Conservative leader at Westminster. Well, you only get one chance to make a first impression and that was her's for me. Shouty, bossy, woman who likes to point fingers and cannot engage in reasonable debate - file under forget.

    British politics as we once knew it died during this campaign. We now have this reheated US tripe.
    I fear you are correct, Mr. Jonathon, though the illness as contracted a good ways back. God only knows what the next GE will be like.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,202
    "Greedy bankers" says FOG - would those be the bankers who are bankrolling Remain?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735
    Argh, Grady's voice.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Ruth not getting much air time??
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    Andrea is not performing as well this time as in the studio.

    Gisella, meanwhile, is knocking things out of the park.

    Gisella is totally wasted in the Labour Party. They don't appreciate her and she is a gem. I'd love to see her in a Gove government in charge of something like welfare. She has so much to offer.
    In the event of leave I would like to see a Leave cabinet of national unity... or similar.

    It should not be an opportunity for a stitch up.

    Before anyone panics about a certain person, I would only include MPs in that.

    On another note, why does Alistair Meeks seem to think it's nailed on for leave?

    There is only one poll that counts and all we are getting from the opinion polls is noise...
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    F*ck off, old bean. It is the EU's established policy that Turkey join. Again, it just is.
    It's not imminent. Other things involving Turkey may well be. Them joining is not.
    But if it's realistic that they may join in the next 46 years then it is likely that this is our last say on the matter directly.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2016
    I might be biased (since she was probably my favourite coming in), but I think Frances O'Grady is doing rather well. Not as polished as a professional politician, but she's making arguments which I think people can relate to, rather than just endless streams of tractor stats.

    Gisela and Davidson also doing very well. Khan and Leadsom are not.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,040
    SeanT said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    F*ck off, old bean. It is the EU's established policy that Turkey join. Again, it just is.

    It is a lie that Turkish membership is in any way imminent. It just is.

  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Frances going a bit off piste there... let Westminster deal with workers' rights, blame those nasty bankers (the ones proudly named as Remain supporters). Keep talking.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Free advice to PBers. Get the footie on. Thrilling finish to Spain's group and as such Norn Iron hanging on to the dream.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Ruth not getting much air time??

    Probably a good thing for her side.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553
    It's Cameron who has been dishonest about Turkey, saying they've only met a few of the criteria and at this rate it will take them until the year 3000 to join, while at the same time refusing to commit himself to opposing their membership.

    Twisty bastard.

    Does he want Turkey to join or not? If they meet the criteria, of course.
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Frances O'Grady is just absolutely dire.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,255
    Gisela doing classical working class Labour proud. Tony Benn would be happy.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    Andrea is not performing as well this time as in the studio.

    Gisella, meanwhile, is knocking things out of the park.

    Gisella is totally wasted in the Labour Party. They don't appreciate her and she is a gem. I'd love to see her in a Gove government in charge of something like welfare. She has so much to offer.
    In the event of leave I would like to see a Leave cabinet of national unity... or similar.

    It should not be an opportunity for a stitch up.

    Before anyone panics about a certain person, I would only include MPs in that.

    On another note, why does Alistair Meeks seem to think it's nailed on for leave?

    There is only one poll that counts and all we are getting from the opinion polls is noise...
    Get Farage in the House of Lords and make him.Foreign Secretary LOL
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,202
    We're going to do this. We really are. Bring on INDEPENDENCE DAY*

    * The film. I don't actually want us to have another bleeding bank holiday.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    SeanT said:

    Good answers from Ruth. She's class.

    This is basically Tories v Tories.

    Whatever happened to Labour???

    Stuart's good.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,284

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    It's great. Few other things demonstrate the lying hypocrisy of the EU better. It is EU and UK policy that they join but no one really means it. It's just a convenient lie for the stupid people. Who can believe anything these scum say about anything?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735
    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    It's the Leave tactic I'm least happy with, to be honest. But it will work, as you probably agree.
    TBH, Turkey is an accession state & it is the Govt.'s position that they should join. Those two facts are fair game imo.
    It is very common politics to say something that is factually true while communicating another point which is not. The implication of the immediate prospect of Turkey joining is communicated loud and clear.

    Leave have so many good points that are better than Remain's, it's a shame, for me personally, that Immigration is the key for most people and implications on it so useful.
  • DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    Andrea is not performing as well this time as in the studio.

    Gisella, meanwhile, is knocking things out of the park.

    Gisella is totally wasted in the Labour Party. They don't appreciate her and she is a gem. I'd love to see her in a Gove government in charge of something like welfare. She has so much to offer.
    In the event of leave I would like to see a Leave cabinet of national unity... or similar.

    It should not be an opportunity for a stitch up.

    Before anyone panics about a certain person, I would only include MPs in that.

    On another note, why does Alistair Meeks seem to think it's nailed on for leave?

    There is only one poll that counts and all we are getting from the opinion polls is noise...
    I agree with Alistair after doing the maths - see previous thread for details.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,376
    edited June 2016

    SeanT said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    F*ck off, old bean. It is the EU's established policy that Turkey join. Again, it just is.

    It is a lie that Turkish membership is in any way imminent. It just is.

    With respect Southam this is a 40-70 year question at the minimum - so in the long term Turkey is relevant I think. Personally I'm not looking ahead 70 years as I might be dead but long term I think Turkey is joining.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Oh, Sadiq. What are you doing.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,088
    Mortimer said:

    I'm really standing by the Turkey issue - until and unless the British government stop supporting Turkish entry, it says the British government want Turkey in the EU.

    A country has to adopt and enforce all the current EU rules before it can be admitted to the bloc. EU rules are divided into 35 policy areas and in 10 years Turkey only managed to adopt the rules on one: science and research. In most other areas it has not even made a start.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,202
    That, ladies and gents, is going to be the clip on the news.

    'Immigration may be a problem, but Leaving the EU is not the answer'
    "It is" (laughing)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,255
    I haven't had a pay rise in 3 years. *shrug*
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,121
    This is the first program of any kind I have watched on this dreadful referendum. I'm going to give an objective view, if that is possible.

    Gisela Stuart- never heard of her- is the star of the show. Dimbleby is doing OK. Khan isn't too bad, And Boris has his usual appeal. The trade union women appears to be a bad pick. I like Ruth Davisdon a lot....so it is difficult for me to be objective, but she appears fine.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553
    DavidL said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    It's great. Few other things demonstrate the lying hypocrisy of the EU better. It is EU and UK policy that they join but no one really means it. It's just a convenient lie for the stupid people. Who can believe anything these scum say about anything?
    Which stupid people is the lie for?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,735
    Honestly, immigration is such an open goal for Leave, I'm not sure how Remain are even supposed to get through these sections without damage. Just refuse to say anything for 15 minutes?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    What lies would those be?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Fenster said:

    Why haven't LEAVE used Dan Hannan on the big stage?

    He is a first class communicator.

    Surprised not to have him on one of the big TV events. He has done a few TV interviews and a couple of lower profile debates, but judging from his Twitter feed has been running round every town in the country rallying the troops and getting the vote out for Leave.

    He also wins the prize for the best opening line of a speech, at the Spectator debate:
    "Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm inviting you to make me redundant!" Brilliant!
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,918

    SeanT said:

    These lies about Turkey from Leave are contemptible.

    F*ck off, old bean. It is the EU's established policy that Turkey join. Again, it just is.

    It is a lie that Turkish membership is in any way imminent. It just is.

    What do you mean by "imminent"? Frankly, if you told many people Turkey would not be in the EU until 2030 it would still be too early for them - because they want them NEVER to join. Racism or whatever, call it what you like, but it's the grim truth.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,402
    "Take back control" is getting painfully repetitive.
  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 171
    SOUTHAM OBS what on earth is contemptable about mentioning the probability of Turkey joining theEU?
    The lead Remain campaigner has pledged to pave the road from Ankara to Brussels to get them in.
    Like you, I take Mr Cameronat his word.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Polling Info Alert

    Poster on another forum got phone polled today they said

    There was one question about if Leave happened, who would be best to negotiate withdrawal: Cameron, Osborne, Johnson, Gove or May.


    Interesting.
This discussion has been closed.