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Sadiq saying that size matters? Might lose the insecure male votes
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What like the EU?KentRising said:
I don't get that line at all. It makes me think of a runaway train or a car crash in slow motion.Casino_Royale said:Remain going for the "no turning back" line again and again.
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Not just that. Even in '97, there were 165 Cons seats. Even in '83, there were over 200 Lab seats. That's a lot of seats that are only vulnerable to a Tatton 1997 scenario. This isn't a Coting system point as such (phew!) but the direct control voters have over MPs only goes so far.kle4 said:
That is, on very rare occasions.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
They did in 1945, 1983 and 1997, not to mention 2015 in Scotland.IanB2 said:
And the majority of listeners will live in safe seats where their MP has effectively a job for life, every GE campaign will pass them by, and they have no control over anything...Chameleon said:Bloody hell. 'Take back control' being repeated constantly. It's driving me insane.
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Well yes. I honestly don't know how Remain could win a public debate - the case for the EU requires quite a bit of nuance, of give and take. The case for Leave is complain about the things you don't like, it's bloody easy.SeanT said:This is a shoo-in for LEAVE, but I think that's because they have all the soundbites and all the emotions.
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Sadiq rolling out the right-wing arguments for Remain again. "Big business wants this, therefore you must vote the way they want"0
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Suggests turnout is seen as the no.1 objective?DavidL said:
Well don't then. QED.Concanvasser said:I have just had an email from the Labour party (i paid 3 quid to vote for Jez) reminding me there is an election on Thursday.
It says the election is important. It allows me help to find my polling station and suggests I make a plan for when I vote.
NO WHERE does it suggest I vote Remain.0 -
Wow, Ruth is annoying.0
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Davidson is quite good, although her constant "Boris.... Boris...." is irritating.0
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Leave side again more collegial.0
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I'm 15 minutes behind watching, O' Grady seems to have dropped the first bollock though.0
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They're saying things a lot of people believe - Khan, Davidson and Grady pointing out they are wrong, even if they are correct to point that out, won't stop people thinking that.SouthamObserver said:I think we are seeing this in a partisan light. I think the Leave side is coming across as thoroughly mendacious.
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I honestly think Jez has done his best to throw this election and so it continues with small things like this.
He is transparently for Leave, in just the same way that his friend Kelvin Hopkins is. Jez hasnt changed his mind about anything since puberty.
The suprising thing is that he has effectively shut up the Labour establishment on their only big cause left. The man is in danger of becoming a legend.0 -
Sadiq seems to think everyone should know better,
Whilst shitting himself that most working class Labour voters actually do.0 -
This is like a US Republican primary, without the grounded good sense.0
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Priti Patel still really needs to work on her warmth.0
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Now interval commentary0
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New banner ads coming up:
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Labour Leave has been great. Corbyn probably wishes he was leading it.Concanvasser said:I honestly think Jez has done his best to throw this election and so it continues with small things like this.
He is transparently for Leave, in just the same way that his friend Kelvin Hopkins is. Jez hasnt changed his mind about anything since puberty.
The suprising thing is that he has effectively shut up the Labour establishment on their only big cause left. The man is in danger of becoming a legend.0 -
I'm beginning to think she's trying to piss him off - she's saying it in a calm tone so, she'd hope, won't come off as too irritating to the audience, she's not trying to shout him down, and for someone who talks over people all the time, he sounded annoyed during his 'Haggis!' line.Danny565 said:Davidson is quite good, although her constant "Boris.... Boris...." is irritating.
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As a Leaver, I find that quite reassuring, tbh. I'm more worries that some pretext to keep us in the EU will be found even in the event of a Brexit vote.Casino_Royale said:Remain going for the "no turning back" line again and again.
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Or they don't really give a damn as long as the Tories tear themselves apart.IanB2 said:
Suggests turnout is seen as the no.1 objective?DavidL said:
Well don't then. QED.Concanvasser said:I have just had an email from the Labour party (i paid 3 quid to vote for Jez) reminding me there is an election on Thursday.
It says the election is important. It allows me help to find my polling station and suggests I make a plan for when I vote.
NO WHERE does it suggest I vote Remain.0 -
Lol, Farron.0
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Sure - but they are lying. That's how it comes across to me. Hence my point about us all watching through partisan eyes.kle4 said:
They're saying things a lot of people believe - Khan, Davidson and Grady pointing out they are wrong, even if they are correct to point that out, won't stop people thinking that.SouthamObserver said:I think we are seeing this in a partisan light. I think the Leave side is coming across as thoroughly mendacious.
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Just a thought.. The economy is supposed to be Remain's strong card.0
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Interesting clash and we'll all react according to our prejudices. The Leavers in the audience are much more vocal than the Remainers. Boris is the biggest figure but totally Marmite - powerful speaker but shambolic. Davidson is much the most forceful Remainer. Khan and Stuart fairly evenly matched on the Labour side.
Leadsom has an irritating mock-posh voice (apologies to those who disagree!), O'Grady not used to contested debate - they're both weaker than the others and seem marginalised.
But what's striking if one takes a step back is how both sides keep circling round one slogan. The Leavers on Take back control and the Remainers on Don't risk it.
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The nerve of Sarah Wollaston to turn up to this.0
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A post that is 100% about your prejudices and 0% about the debate.SeanT said:
No, FREEDOM!!! - will always win emotional debates.SouthamObserver said:I think we are seeing this in a partisan light. I think the Leave side is coming across as thoroughly mendacious.
STAY IN AN ANNOYING TRADING BLOC CUM SUPERSTATE!!! - not so good.
As a citizen I don't see that I will be any more or less 'free' inside or outside the EU. The only people who will gain some freedom from leaving the EU appear to be mostly right-wing politicians, which I don't think is going to make me personally feel any more free...0 -
Wait what? Is this only the start? I'm not sure that I can bare much more.Casino_Royale said:Just a thought.. The economy is supposed to be Remain's strong card.
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Given the last week, immigration could be dangerous for Leave tonight. Then again, any reference to Cox by Remain is a potential banana skin.Casino_Royale said:Just a thought.. The economy is supposed to be Remain's strong card.
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I think you will be wrong about a low turnout in Scotland, but I think you will be proved correct about women voters breaking for Remain just as they did in the Indy Ref because of the economic risks.Paristonda said:I think middle class will break heavily for remain, and very high turnout - the B group (there will be more people in the A group willing to vote leave as they are less worried about short term economic risks or may gain more from Brexit than typical PAYE professionals)
The working class will indeed break for Brexit but I don't think turnout will be massively up from GE. Once you make a habit of not voting it's hard to get out of.
Youth will turnout for remain at a slightly higher level than GE, cancelling out the working class effect.
Scots turnout strong remain but low turnout.
Oldies will stick with leave but may see a swing back to status quo dampening the leave margin (risk averse lends is going to kick in)
The key group is women, I think women will win it for remain. Risk averse and more likely to focus on details like economic risk, house prices, etc. anecdote alert: My mum is very typical Tory voter - right wing, wants low taxes, voted for thatcher. She's voting remain because she does not either love nor hate the EU and doesn't want to take the risk. My father is the same profile but wants to take the risk regardless for immigration and sovereignty. Women will swing it for remain, 52-48.0 -
Bahaha at this "Women for Britain" person straight-up ignoring the presenter's question and not even trying to hide it.0
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I'm not finding this very watchable. Too panto from Remain interrupting - is it all too shouty.0
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Tim F. really is a bystander now, isn't he.0
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I'm just waiting for 'Vote to stay, it's what Jo would have wanted'.*tlg86 said:
Given the last week, immigration could be dangerous for Leave tonight. Then again, any reference to Cox by Remain is a potential banana skin.Casino_Royale said:Just a thought.. The economy is supposed to be Remain's strong card.
*(Yes, I've actually been told this)0 -
Farron bless him scores a hit on Gove. He really should be up there.0
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But that's my point too - they come across as lying to you. They won't to people who are already Leave, even if they are lying. If someone is a waverer they don't like the EU much (if they did, they'd already be for Remain_ - now obviously I cannot put myself entirely in their shoes, but if someone does not like the EU, they might perceive them as lying, but I think playing to their prejudices about the EU is more likely.SouthamObserver said:
Sure - but they are lying. That's how it comes across to me. Hence my point about us all watching through partisan eyes.kle4 said:
They're saying things a lot of people believe - Khan, Davidson and Grady pointing out they are wrong, even if they are correct to point that out, won't stop people thinking that.SouthamObserver said:I think we are seeing this in a partisan light. I think the Leave side is coming across as thoroughly mendacious.
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Boom. Zinger by Farron.0
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Prepare for a Remain bloodbath, we're on to Immigration.0
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Agree. The acoustics are awful. And the Panto style reminds me of Crackerjack.PlatoSaid said:I'm not finding this very watchable. Too panto from Remain interrupting - is it all too shouty.
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An attention seeker as always. Has she seen a bumper sticker that has changed her political philosophy?Artist said:The nerve of Sarah Wollaston to turn up to this.
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Zingers from Farron and Wollaston - better than the main Remain speakers so far.0
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Presumably both slogans have been focus-grouped to death.NickPalmer said:Interesting clash and we'll all react according to our prejudices. The Leavers in the audience are much more vocal than the Remainers. Boris is the biggest figure but totally Marmite - powerful speaker but shambolic. Davidson is much the most forceful Remainer. Khan and Stuart fairly evenly matched on the Labour side.
Leadsom has an irritating mock-posh voice (apologies to those who disagree!), O'Grady not used to contested debate - they're both weaker than the others and seem marginalised.
But what's striking if one takes a step back is how both sides keep circling round one slogan. The Leavers on Take back control and the Remainers on Don't risk it.
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Interesting these 'voxfacts' on the EU being given inbetween breaks0
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Tim Farron from something called the Liberal Demorcrats??????0
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Agreed.NickPalmer said:Zingers from Farron and Wollaston - better than the main Remain speakers so far.
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Anyone know the latest football scores?
PS - the football channels is where you will find the electorate.
So long as no one says something incendiarily dreadful that the press pick up on it dosent really matter much what happens in this debate.0 -
Don't like the audience cheers, like it's some sort of football match.PlatoSaid said:I'm not finding this very watchable. Too panto from Remain interrupting - is it all too shouty.
Just watching some mid-debate BBC explanation about the EU. Good grief! Did they use Newsround to produce it or something? .0 -
Good idea Boris. Very good idea.0
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@georgeeaton: Sincere contempt for Boris from Ruth Davidson. #BBCDebate
@chrisdeerin: So everyone's clear, it's not synthetic https://t.co/f00Z2uAzFw0 -
If there is a Cox effect, and the latest polls moving to Leave prove there probably isn't, it would only work I suspect as a subtle influencer - any attempt to bring her up in such a way would be seen as linking the Leavers on the stage with her death, and even if some Remainer somewhere would do that, the one's on the stage would be suicide.tlg86 said:
Given the last week, immigration could be dangerous for Leave tonight. Then again, any reference to Cox by Remain is a potential banana skin.Casino_Royale said:Just a thought.. The economy is supposed to be Remain's strong card.
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Which is why they went 2/3 socialist of course....Casino_Royale said:Just a thought.. The economy is supposed to be Remain's strong card.
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I've been sent good news from ratesetter:
"In short, we are confident that it will be business as usual - the RateSetter market is well positioned to thrive whatever the outcome of the referendum."0 -
Any crushed grapes and gunge on stage?YellowSubmarine said:
Agree. The acoustics are awful. And the Panto style reminds me of Crackerjack.PlatoSaid said:I'm not finding this very watchable. Too panto from Remain interrupting - is it all too shouty.
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Yep. My only point is that we are all watching through partisan eyes.kle4 said:
But that's my point too - they come across as lying to you. They won't to people who are already Leave, even if they are lying. If someone is a waverer they don't like the EU much (if they did, they'd already be for Remain_ - now obviously I cannot put myself entirely in their shoes, but if someone does not like the EU, they might perceive them as lying, but I think playing to their prejudices about the EU is more likely.SouthamObserver said:
Sure - but they are lying. That's how it comes across to me. Hence my point about us all watching through partisan eyes.kle4 said:
They're saying things a lot of people believe - Khan, Davidson and Grady pointing out they are wrong, even if they are correct to point that out, won't stop people thinking that.SouthamObserver said:I think we are seeing this in a partisan light. I think the Leave side is coming across as thoroughly mendacious.
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Me too. I've been critical of both sides and done the intellectual crap. Finally I think fuck it. This is the right thing to do. (And this is a cracking wine by the way).SeanT said:
Yes. In the last couple of days I've finally, terminally decided. It's LEAVE.DavidL said:
What you need to ask yourself is, do you believe? Finally I believe.SeanT said:This is a shoo-in for LEAVE, but I think that's because they have all the soundbites and all the emotions.
Will they win?
No.
Probably.
I cannot look at myself in the mirror if I vote REMAIN.
I'm slightly surprised. I thought I would waver and haver, but essentially I've gone from 60/40 LEAVE to 100/0 LEAVE0 -
CBeebies I believe.LucyJones said:
Don't like the audience cheers, like it's some sort of football match.PlatoSaid said:I'm not finding this very watchable. Too panto from Remain interrupting - is it all too shouty.
Just watching some mid-debate BBC explanation about the EU. Good grief! Did they use Newsround to produce it or something? .0 -
Aw, I was getting a cuppa and missed his moment!Gallowgate said:Boom. Zinger by Farron.
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My thoughts exactly.LucyJones said:
Don't like the audience cheers, like it's some sort of football match.PlatoSaid said:I'm not finding this very watchable. Too panto from Remain interrupting - is it all too shouty.
Just watching some mid-debate BBC explanation about the EU. Good grief! Did they use Newsround to produce it or something? .0 -
To be honest, I don't listen to either - think our partisan eyes are right. Farron makes me concentrate on his head wobbling, Wollaston makes me wonder when Harriet Harman mk II will leave the Tory party.NickPalmer said:Zingers from Farron and Wollaston - better than the main Remain speakers so far.
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Surely the easy answer here is, "we want to have the ability to decide who comes into this country."0
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FCUK the cultural and social benefits, Sadiq!0
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What time does this go on until?0
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Killer blow from Sadiq0
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They need the Labour vote more than they do the Tory vote - they never had a chance of 50% of that.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Which is why they went 2/3 socialist of course....Casino_Royale said:Just a thought.. The economy is supposed to be Remain's strong card.
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ooh "Project Hate" from Sadiq.0
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I'm very relaxed about my Leave vote.SeanT said:
Yes. In the last couple of days I've finally, terminally decided. It's LEAVE.DavidL said:
What you need to ask yourself is, do you believe? Finally I believe.SeanT said:This is a shoo-in for LEAVE, but I think that's because they have all the soundbites and all the emotions.
Will they win?
No.
Probably.
I cannot look at myself in the mirror if I vote REMAIN.
I'm slightly surprised. I thought I would waver and haver, but essentially I've gone from 60/40 LEAVE to 100/0 LEAVE0 -
If Leave wins, the whip should be withdrawn from her before she decides to move camps again.SeanT said:
Yeah. To hell with her. GET RIDArtist said:The nerve of Sarah Wollaston to turn up to this.
It's one thing *changing your mind*, but then suddenly turning up at a TV debate to argue against your prior position. UGH
Ugh. Horrible. UGH.0 -
Me too. I've been committed to voting Leave for a couple of weeks. I was tilting towards Remain a few months back but now 100% Leave.DavidL said:
Me too. I've been critical of both sides and done the intellectual crap. Finally I think fuck it. This is the right thing to do. (And this is a cracking wine by the way).SeanT said:
Yes. In the last couple of days I've finally, terminally decided. It's LEAVE.DavidL said:
What you need to ask yourself is, do you believe? Finally I believe.SeanT said:This is a shoo-in for LEAVE, but I think that's because they have all the soundbites and all the emotions.
Will they win?
No.
Probably.
I cannot look at myself in the mirror if I vote REMAIN.
I'm slightly surprised. I thought I would waver and haver, but essentially I've gone from 60/40 LEAVE to 100/0 LEAVE
I've found the Remain campaign pathetic. No inspiration; no positivity. Just shite and sneering, like the EU.0 -
Non stop until polls open 7am ThursdayPaul_Bedfordshire said:What time does this go on until?
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Until 10pmPaul_Bedfordshire said:What time does this go on until?
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Is there a fly buzzing round Sadiq ?0
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Lol.IanB2 said:
Non stop until polls open 7am ThursdayPaul_Bedfordshire said:What time does this go on until?
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Project Hate from Khan to Boris - Boris knocked over0
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Oh, another '"I'm a mother" spiel.
Stuart comes across as very plausible though.0 -
I thought it was in the room with me.Pulpstar said:Is there a fly buzzing round Sadiq ?
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So does the last viewer get to choose who wins?PlatoSaid said:Paul_Bedfordshire said:What time does this go on until?
Until 10pmIanB2 said:Killer blow from Sadiq
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Its because he is talking SHITPulpstar said:Is there a fly buzzing round Sadiq ?
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Just took herself, who was watching the debate, a cup of tea and caught sight of Ruth Davidson doing finger pointing and being very shouty. Total turn-off for me, cannot abide that sort of behaviour. As I left the room Herself was changing channels to watch something else.
I am sure I have been told that Davidson was a good and engaging politician, a potential Conservative leader at Westminster. Well, you only get one chance to make a first impression and that was her's for me. Shouty, bossy, woman who likes to point fingers and cannot engage in reasonable debate - file under forget.0 -
Frances O' Grady stinger about BNP donation to Vote leave0
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I know what Remain were trying to do with O'Grady. They've got the characterisation and script right but the casting horribly wrong.0
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Traitor should not be used in this debate to describe anyone.0
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Leave went on the ropes and waited for Remain to go to far on immigration.
The dope on the ropes strategy on immigration neutralises negative accusations.0 -
Funny thing was my one moment of doubt was after those polls last week showed leave well ahead.
I thought, s*** this isnt a game anymore it might actually happen. Am I doing the right thing.
100% leave by the next day.0 -
I've been tipping back toward remain in the last few days. But partisan stuff like "project hate" from Sadiq Khan just seems to bat away people's legitimate concerns regarding immigration. Tips me back towards leave.0
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Shit.. That was horrific from Andrea.0
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Public performances can be so rough on people - Grady looks panicked. Now, that's my hated word of this campaign, everything a side does is a sign of their 'panic' apparently, and I don't know that she is, but she just looks worried.
Leadsom looks emotionless, (Oh, and another 'I'm a mum' moment, I was forgetting) which can seem more rational.
I note though that disdain for experts doesn't apply for Leave when an expert is on their side, how curious.0
