politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The EURef might be more like the AV referendum and not the

nunu said:

Wow. I didn't expect so many people to respond to me about having mental illness, thank you all for the support. Tbh I kinda expected people on here to suffer or to have suffered from mental illness, that is not a putdown but in my experience the "thinkers" seem to suffer more. That is just (yet another!) anecdote though.

What I'd recommend from my own experience is to adjust expectations. Look for tiny steps forward. Look at "6 months ago I couldn't manage ..... and now I can", however small a thing it is.

MyBurningEars said:

rottenborough said:

Fenster said:

Jobabob said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

tyson said:

.It was released in 1980. That's when we first got to see it. Next...

Other 80s classics, film-wise include:

The Breakfast Club- shit
Die Hard- shit, but kinda of fun
Aliens- shit- but passes 2 and a half hours
Beverley Hills Cop- really shit, and dated
Escape from New York-shit, and crap
Terminator-not bad, perhaps
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan-shit
Superman II-OK(ish)
Blade Runner- I'll give you this one- but ahead of it's time by at least 15 years
E.T.- mawkish shit
Back to the Future- shit
Predator- shit
Footloose- shit, shit
Dirty Dancing- fucking shit
Tootsie- sort of alright
Ghostbuster-juvenile shit

Um... to name a few

Local Hero!!!- sentimental shit


@above

I have just objectively critiqued the above 80's classics for you

Utterly deluded, just like your politics1

Was there a single film released between 1980 and 1989 that wasn't some variant of shit?

Planes Trains and Automobiles

Blimey, no one has mentioned Letter to Brezhnev or Gregory's Girl.

Get a grip folks...

You can tell how male-dominated PB is, by the fact that nobody has mentioned The Princess Bride yet!

For reasons that are far beyond my ken, the fairer sex seem to lap that one up. Even the young'uns - a good portion of my female students could quote much of that movie word for word. (In that respect, it seems to have lasted better than that other female favourite, Dirty Dancing.)

Aladdin (early 90s, in fact it is a shocking 24 years old now!) seems to have the same effect, and that one's even further beyond me - I can't even recall it being a particularly female-centric film. Suspect Frozen will fill the same niche in the equivalent year of 2037 (=2013+24, and that really does make the early 90s seem a long time ago).

K

I have never even seen The Princess Bride.

Jobabob said:

tyson said:

HYUFD said:

Forgot Chariots of Fire 1982 and Gandhi 1983 and the Last Emperor 1988 just to finish off

I'm finishing now
Chariots is fucking shit, dated and crap. Watch it now- the editing is appalling. Embarrassing. Compare and contrast to Goodfellas which is flawless.
Gandhi is well made, but virtuous and sanctimonious

The Last Emperor is ponderous and up it's own arse

Deadly Pursuit is on now. 1988. BBC1

Yes, watching the beginning but about to head to bed

MyBurningEars said:

rottenborough said:

Fenster said:

Jobabob said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

tyson said:

.It was released in 1980. That's when we first got to see it. Next...

Other 80s classics, film-wise include:

The Breakfast Club- shit
Die Hard- shit, but kinda of fun
Aliens- shit- but passes 2 and a half hours
Beverley Hills Cop- really shit, and dated
Escape from New York-shit, and crap
Terminator-not bad, perhaps
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan-shit
Superman II-OK(ish)
Blade Runner- I'll give you this one- but ahead of it's time by at least 15 years
E.T.- mawkish shit
Back to the Future- shit
Predator- shit
Footloose- shit, shit
Dirty Dancing- fucking shit
Tootsie- sort of alright
Ghostbuster-juvenile shit

Um... to name a few

Local Hero!!!- sentimental shit


@above

I have just objectively critiqued the above 80's classics for you

Utterly deluded, just like your politics1

Was there a single film released between 1980 and 1989 that wasn't some variant of shit?

Planes Trains and Automobiles

Blimey, no one has mentioned Letter to Brezhnev or Gregory's Girl.

Get a grip folks...

You can tell how male-dominated PB is, by the fact that nobody has mentioned The Princess Bride yet!

For reasons that are far beyond my ken, the fairer sex seem to lap that one up. Even the young'uns - a good portion of my female students could quote much of that movie word for word. (In that respect, it seems to have lasted better than that other female favourite, Dirty Dancing.)

Aladdin (early 90s, in fact it is a shocking 24 years old now!) seems to have the same effect, and that one's even further beyond me - I can't even recall it being a particularly female-centric film. Suspect Frozen will fill the same niche in the equivalent year of 2037 (=2013+24, and that really does make the early 90s seem a long time ago).

Watched Aladdin last Sunday for the first time since I think I saw it at the cinema as a child, Robbie Williams' Genie is the best thing about it

@above

I have just objectively critiqued the above 80's classics for you




Utterly deluded, just like your politics1

Was there a single film released between 1980 and 1989 that wasn't some variant of shit?


Planes Trains and Automobiles

Blimey, no one has mentioned Letter to Brezhnev or Gregory's Girl.

Get a grip folks...

You can tell how male-dominated PB is, by the fact that nobody has mentioned The Princess Bride yet!

For reasons that are far beyond my ken, the fairer sex seem to lap that one up. Even the young'uns - a good portion of my female students could quote much of that movie word for word. (In that respect, it seems to have lasted better than that other female favourite, Dirty Dancing.)

Aladdin (early 90s, in fact it is a shocking 24 years old now!) seems to have the same effect, and that one's even further beyond me - I can't even recall it being a particularly female-centric film. Suspect Frozen will fill the same niche in the equivalent year of 2037 (=2013+24, and that really does make the early 90s seem a long time ago).

I'm sorry, I really must take issue with your sweeping statement about the Princess Bride. I am female and I'm here to tell you that it is shit.
And so is Flashdance.

Dirty Dancing however, is a work of staggering genius.

Can someone do this with music as well? Will save me some time when selecting albums to listen to:
e.g. much of Sting's solo work - dull hippy shit
Tin Machine - boring and shit

@Moonbeam

It is great to see someone speaking the same lingo. 80's music is on a different plateau than cinema because so much of it was not shit, and even though I thought alot of it was shit at the time, on revisiting it, it is not actually not that shit.

I really cannot watch 80's films- inevitably they are shitter than you remember. Even the ones you think were good have been tarnished by shitness over time.

foxinsoxuk said:

HYUFD said:

tyson said:

HYUFD said:

Forgot Chariots of Fire 1982 and Gandhi 1983 and the Last Emperor 1988 just to finish off

I'm finishing now
Chariots is fucking shit, dated and crap. Watch it now- the editing is appalling. Embarrassing. Compare and contrast to Goodfellas which is flawless.
Gandhi is well made, but virtuous and sanctimonious

The Last Emperor is ponderous and up it's own arse

The best bit about Chariots was the Vangelis score, Gandhi was good but too long

Dated films and TV have an interest of their own, as they are very illustrative of the attitudes and assumptions.

The original Star Trek for example is quite dated now, but a fascinating study of how Americans in the Sixties saw their place in the world and its future.

Yes it is all about context

Another poll by BMG carried out at the same time, this time online, found Leave on 55.5 per cent, with Remain on 44.5 per cent, once so-called ‘don’t knows’ were excluded.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Another poll by BMG carried out at the same time, this time online, found Leave on 55.5 per cent, with Remain on 44.5 per cent, once so-called ‘don’t knows’ were excluded.

Back to Telephone v. Internet.
Presumably if BMG had only conducted an internet poll, the narrative would be Leave's momentum continues.

TheScreamingEagles said:

BMG

The campaign to keep the UK in the European Union has a clear lead with just days to go before the vote, according to a new poll.

The exclusive UK-wide BMG telephone poll for The Herald found Remain ahead by almost 7 points.

The results show that ‘shy Remainers’, similar to the 'shy Nos' who were crucial to the outcome of 2014’s independence vote, could help keep the UK in the EU.

But the poll also suggests that ‘lazy Labour’ voters could change the result and deliver a Brexit just by sitting at home.

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14565424.EXC__Poll_shows_campaign_to_stay_in_EU_almost_7_points_ahead/

What is interesting about that is the way it is reported and it isn't clear what the underlying numbers are.

It appears to be 53ish to 47 ish once you apportion the don't knows. What it doesn't say is what they are without the don't knows.

I also think that the lazy Labour voters are more likely to be leavers than remainers.

It gets worse though as the IMF is now saying #Brexit will be OK...

http://news.sky.com/story/1713684/imf-brexit-may-not-mean-a-british-recession

We can safely say that Amanda Donohoe kept the British film industry going in the mid/late 80's ?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Another poll by BMG carried out at the same time, this time online, found Leave on 55.5 per cent, with Remain on 44.5 per cent, once so-called ‘don’t knows’ were excluded.

So ... is BMG owned by Rupert Murdoch?

BMG EU referendum poll: (All before yesterday's news)
Remain: 53%
Leave: 47%

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/743951344894156802?lang=en-gb

Tykejohnno said:

We can safely say that Amanda Donohoe kept the British film industry going in the mid/late 80's ?

Omigod! "Lair of the White Worm"! h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqe2brJTEFU

foxinsoxuk said:

HYUFD said:

foxinsoxuk said:

HYUFD said:

tyson said:

HYUFD said:

Forgot Chariots of Fire 1982 and Gandhi 1983 and the Last Emperor 1988 just to finish off

I'm finishing now
Chariots is fucking shit, dated and crap. Watch it now- the editing is appalling. Embarrassing. Compare and contrast to Goodfellas which is flawless.
Gandhi is well made, but virtuous and sanctimonious

The Last Emperor is ponderous and up it's own arse

The best bit about Chariots was the Vangelis score, Gandhi was good but too long

Dated films and TV have an interest of their own, as they are very illustrative of the attitudes and assumptions.

The original Star Trek for example is quite dated now, but a fascinating study of how Americans in the Sixties saw their place in the world and its future.

Yes it is all about context

It is interesting to compare films made in the period to later films concerning the period. Life on Mars got some of the gritty Manchester of its time right, but if you compare with A Clockwork Orange (filmed in the early seventies but set in the future) you see very different ideas explored. We project both past and future from our present.

Yes cinema when done well makes you think, goodnight

BenedictWhite said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BMG

The campaign to keep the UK in the European Union has a clear lead with just days to go before the vote, according to a new poll.

The exclusive UK-wide BMG telephone poll for The Herald found Remain ahead by almost 7 points.

The results show that ‘shy Remainers’, similar to the 'shy Nos' who were crucial to the outcome of 2014’s independence vote, could help keep the UK in the EU.

But the poll also suggests that ‘lazy Labour’ voters could change the result and deliver a Brexit just by sitting at home.

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14565424.EXC__Poll_shows_campaign_to_stay_in_EU_almost_7_points_ahead/

What is interesting about that is the way it is reported and it isn't clear what the underlying numbers are.

It appears to be 53ish to 47 ish once you apportion the don't knows. What it doesn't say is what they are without the don't knows.

I also think that the lazy Labour voters are more likely to be leavers than remainers.

It gets worse though as the IMF is now saying #Brexit will be OK...

http://news.sky.com/story/1713684/imf-brexit-may-not-mean-a-british-recession

53 47 is without Don't Knows, it suggests undecideds will break two to one for Remain. The IMF says 'comparatively weaker' under a limited scenario, a recession under an adverse scenario not really a glowing assessment either

AnneJGP said:

nunu said:

Wow. I didn't expect so many people to respond to me about having mental illness, thank you all for the support. Tbh I kinda expected people on here to suffer or to have suffered from mental illness, that is not a putdown but in my experience the "thinkers" seem to suffer more. That is just (yet another!) anecdote though.

What I'd recommend from my own experience is to adjust expectations. Look for tiny steps forward. Look at "6 months ago I couldn't manage ..... and now I can", however small a thing it is.

I agree. These things take a long time to develop and are rarely quick to go. Every small slice of progress is valuble, not just in itself but also as a sign that progress is possible.

Keep going. It gets better.

tyson said:

RodCrosby said:

tyson said:

Tykejohnno said:

tyson said:

American werewolf in london- dated shit, but Jenny Agutter gets her kit off, which is a plus


@above

So what was your best film of the 80's ?

Blade Runner I think- though it was ahead of it's time. Then possibly Hannah and Her Sisters at a push.

But, the 70's- the Godfathers, Annie Hall, Manhattan, Last Detail, Dog Day Afternoon. Apocalypse Now, Serpico, French Connection, Klute, Nashville, Jaws, Deer Hunter, Bad Company, Chinatown, All the President's Men, Lenny, Caberet, All that Jazz, Parallax View, Marathon Man,...I'm just brainstorming for a starters.

American Cinema of the 70's is one of the most creative periods in human history...

A lot of good stuff there, admittedly. Chinatown is sublime.

I'd add "Farewell My Lovely" with Robert Mitchum, as a close second to Chinatown.
'This past spring was the first that I felt tired and realized I was growing old. Maybe it was the rotten weather we'd had in L.A. Maybe the rotten cases I'd had. Mostly chasing a few missing husbands and then chasing their wives once I found them, in order to get paid. Or maybe it was just the plain fact that I am tired and growing old.'

Nicholson in "Five Easy Pieces", and "Cuckoo's Nest" also.

The French and Brits can be proud of "The Day of The Jackal" too.

Man- I could go on and on with 70's cinema- Straw Dogs, the Exorcist, the Omen, Little Big Man, Coming Home, Oh Lucky Man, Straight Time, The Passenger, The Fortune, Heaven Can Wait, Harry and Tonto, Harold and Maude, Being There, Rocky, Close Encounters, Duel, Solent Green, The Omega Man, The Lat Picture Show, Jeremiah Johnson, The Sting.....

I have posted this before, but I think 70's cinema is up there with Renaissance Florence as one of human kinds most creative periods.

The Devils. The Parallax View. The Conversation. The Terminal Man. The Andromeda Strain...

BenedictWhite said:

HYUFD said:

BenedictWhite said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BMG

The campaign to keep the UK in the European Union has a clear lead with just days to go before the vote, according to a new poll.

The exclusive UK-wide BMG telephone poll for The Herald found Remain ahead by almost 7 points.

The results show that ‘shy Remainers’, similar to the 'shy Nos' who were crucial to the outcome of 2014’s independence vote, could help keep the UK in the EU.

But the poll also suggests that ‘lazy Labour’ voters could change the result and deliver a Brexit just by sitting at home.

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14565424.EXC__Poll_shows_campaign_to_stay_in_EU_almost_7_points_ahead/

What is interesting about that is the way it is reported and it isn't clear what the underlying numbers are.

It appears to be 53ish to 47 ish once you apportion the don't knows. What it doesn't say is what they are without the don't knows.

I also think that the lazy Labour voters are more likely to be leavers than remainers.

It gets worse though as the IMF is now saying #Brexit will be OK...

http://news.sky.com/story/1713684/imf-brexit-may-not-mean-a-british-recession

53 47 is without Don't Knows. The IMF says 'comparatively weaker' under a limited scenario, a recession under an adverse scenario not really a glowing assessment either

It isn't without don't knows it is with don't knows apportioned apparently.

And in any case here is the anti Brexit doom and gloom Fisked here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-why-the-economic-consensus-on-brexit-is-flawed-a7057306.html

Britain Elects says it is excluding don't knows but either way it is clear the undecideds lean Remain according to this poll, goodnight

Hmm. The Herald hasn't really helped with the way it's written that up.

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/743958211380785152

The BMG write up is here

http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmgherald-final-eu-referendum-poll/

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/743958211380785152

So we know nothing much from this other than phone polls are better for remain and online better for leave whilst there appears to be a drift to leave?

asjohnstone said:

rottenborough said:

Where is Daily Mail going with this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3647525/Kate-Harry-s-special-bond-watching-Games-Thrones-advising-love-life-future-Queen-sister-young-prince-never-had.html

I think it's clear if William wasn't heir to the throne, she'd not be with him. There is no sexual chemistry at all apparent. Natural that she flirts with the better looking younger brother

William is more classically good looking, Harry more charismatic. Before he married Kate I once read William had a fling with Britney Spears so he clearly had something going for him

Bob__Sykes said:

I see The Times has, probably predictably, come out for Remain - albeit it seems to want it to be a narrow win for Remain with a big Leave vote sending a "thunderous rebuke" rightly to Brussels.

It's, as you would expect from The Times, a measured and well-reasoned piece, and as in 99% of cases with a Times editorial, it is hard to argue against it.

As I suspected throughout that in what was always going to be a knife-edge decision for me I would very possibly let the verdict of The Times decide it for me, like a coin toss, I read it with a degree of disappointment as it ticked off all the very good reasons why Leave would be too much of a leap in the dark and carry so much unnecessary risk for limited tangible benefits. But it finishes off with a plea for a Remain win to signal a new age of reform in Europe and Britain and those of like mind to stand at the forefront of the push for a New Europe, and a new assault on waste, red tape and anti democratic interference. Absolutely essential that would be of course if Remain wins.

A week ago I was very much in the "what the hell, i'm voting Leave" mindset. With a few days to go my thoughts are in clearer focus now.

It is going to be REMAIN for me.

A measured and thoughtful decision by the sounds of it.

@Bob_Sykes


' But it finishes off with a plea for a Remain win to signal a new age of reform in Europe and Britain and those of like mind to stand at the forefront of the push for a New Europe, and a new assault on waste, red tape and anti democratic interference.'


That's what we've been hearing for at least 20 years and we know won't happen..

I see that Harry's thatch is also beginning to thin quite significantly now.

The other interesting part of that piece was how Harry seems to be quite close to the Yorks - while his brother and father apparently are not. Mind you, I think Charles has been relatively open in his desire to cut down the 'core' Royal Family to his own branch once he is on the throne.

KentRising said:

asjohnstone said:

rottenborough said:

Where is Daily Mail going with this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3647525/Kate-Harry-s-special-bond-watching-Games-Thrones-advising-love-life-future-Queen-sister-young-prince-never-had.html

I think it's clear if William wasn't heir to the throne, she'd not be with him. There is no sexual chemistry at all apparent. Natural that she flirts with the better looking younger brother

Out of interest, what would they need to be doing - or not doing - in public to make you think there was sexual chemistry between Will and Kate? Will at the rope-line with his non-handshake hand on his wife's bottom?!

Oh dear, I wish hadn't started this. My main interest is why has the Daily Mail started ephemeral rabbits running like this on the final weekend of EU referendum?

asjohnstone said:

rottenborough said:

Where is Daily Mail going with this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3647525/Kate-Harry-s-special-bond-watching-Games-Thrones-advising-love-life-future-Queen-sister-young-prince-never-had.html

I think it's clear if William wasn't heir to the throne, she'd not be with him. There is no sexual chemistry at all apparent. Natural that she flirts with the better looking younger brother

Plus, managed to get Game of Thrones in URI - clickbait alert.

Bob__Sykes said:

I see The Times has, probably predictably, come out for Remain - albeit it seems to want it to be a narrow win for Remain with a big Leave vote sending a "thunderous rebuke" rightly to Brussels.

It's, as you would expect from The Times, a measured and well-reasoned piece, and as in 99% of cases with a Times editorial, it is hard to argue against it.

As I suspected throughout that in what was always going to be a knife-edge decision for me I would very possibly let the verdict of The Times decide it for me, like a coin toss, I read it with a degree of disappointment as it ticked off all the very good reasons why Leave would be too much of a leap in the dark and carry so much unnecessary risk for limited tangible benefits. But it finishes off with a plea for a Remain win to signal a new age of reform in Europe and Britain and those of like mind to stand at the forefront of the push for a New Europe, and a new assault on waste, red tape and anti democratic interference. Absolutely essential that would be of course if Remain wins.

A week ago I was very much in the "what the hell, i'm voting Leave" mindset. With a few days to go my thoughts are in clearer focus now.

It is going to be REMAIN for me.

And you think any massive reform in the EU like freedom of movement if remain wins, thats what is worrying most people when it comes to EU reforms ?

OUT said:

Bob__Sykes said:

I see The Times has, probably predictably, come out for Remain - albeit it seems to want it to be a narrow win for Remain with a big Leave vote sending a "thunderous rebuke" rightly to Brussels.

It's, as you would expect from The Times, a measured and well-reasoned piece, and as in 99% of cases with a Times editorial, it is hard to argue against it.

As I suspected throughout that in what was always going to be a knife-edge decision for me I would very possibly let the verdict of The Times decide it for me, like a coin toss, I read it with a degree of disappointment as it ticked off all the very good reasons why Leave would be too much of a leap in the dark and carry so much unnecessary risk for limited tangible benefits. But it finishes off with a plea for a Remain win to signal a new age of reform in Europe and Britain and those of like mind to stand at the forefront of the push for a New Europe, and a new assault on waste, red tape and anti democratic interference. Absolutely essential that would be of course if Remain wins.

A week ago I was very much in the "what the hell, i'm voting Leave" mindset. With a few days to go my thoughts are in clearer focus now.

It is going to be REMAIN for me.

Good luck getting that reform.
Hello EU we had a vote, and decided to remain. Can we have some more reform?
No more
No Mas
Pas Plus
Nicht Mehr
Non Piu.

Yep,what ever happened to britains self confidence.

YellowSubmarine said:

Though as things stand I think it's very small and marginal impacts are as follows. #1 Those like myself who see the killing on the same day as the Farage poster as a synchronicity. That the referendum rather than helping us integrate our national Shadow has simply inflamed it. #2 Centre Right Remainders who have quite bought Cameron's economic chaos argument in sufficient numbers. They'll now fear political chaos. I think these are very marginal in Electoral terms, < 1% but they'll be there.

Absolutely agree.

Dougie said:

The other interesting part of that piece was how Harry seems to be quite close to the Yorks - while his brother and father apparently are not. Mind you, I think Charles has been relatively open in his desire to cut down the 'core' Royal Family to his own branch once he is on the throne.

But doesn't that happen automatically as otherwise the numbers would escalate too much.

What role do the Queen's sister's children (ie Margaret's children) play now?

I doubt 99% of people would have a clue who they are.

Yet they are in the identical position today that Andrew's children will be in when Charles becomes King.

It's a bit odd - in the Royal family people are in a prominent position in the early part of their life - but unless they are in direct line to the throne they then drop out of things as they get older.

So when Charles becomes King it'll be Charles and Camilla, William and Kate + their children, Harry and his wife + their children - that'll total about 10 people - they'll be the main 10 and everyone else will fade into the distant background.

Bob__Sykes said:

But it finishes off with a plea for a Remain win to signal a new age of reform in Europe and Britain and those of like mind to stand at the forefront of the push for a New Europe, and a new assault on waste, red tape and anti democratic interference. Absolutely essential that would be of course if Remain wins..

What in the last few decades or years has made you think the E.U is capable of reform? As soon as we vote to stay, Europe will be OK another crisis averted NEXT, look how wonderful and great we are. There will be no reform, no comprimise no "New Europe". Only an ever closer union. If Cameron could not acheive anything during his renegotiation than what makes you think that a Britain that has just voted to stay will get any reform. The Euro member states dominate, and remember every E.U member MUST join the currency apart from us and Denmark eventually meaning we will be in an ever diminishing minority.


Make no mistake the closeness of the result will be ignored by bureaucrats who don't have to worry about elections.

This might be are only chance to leave by the time politicians agree to another vote we will be so intergrated into the system that it will be too diffucult to leave.

Cyclefree said:

TOPPING said:

BenedictWhite said:

geoffw said:

What are we going to do with all that sovereignty when we win?
I propose banishing the FT to Frankfurt.

I think you will find that they need access to our money markets more than our money markets need access to them. That is why London trade more $s than New York and China came to London as well.

You do not understand why leaving the EU would be so damaging to The City.

Having explained it here a thousand times, and to save every other poster's sanity, I am not going to tell you why it would be. You can google stuff.

Here's a hint ( @Cyclefree look away now).

I know all about this stuff. I deal with it every day at work. You have to measure this risk against the risks to the City of staying in and, of course, of all the other advantages/disadvantages of staying or going.

Still, vote Remain to save the City has a certain ring to it, no? And will go down well with many outside London, I'm sure.

No, but I think vote Remain for economic stability and national security has a certain ring to it for many ordinary voters living outside London who have just struggled their way through the last recession and are just getting back on their feet or not! Just look at Scotland, we are currently struggling with the huge down turn in the Oil and Gas Industry, along with other other job losses in steel etc. So not surprisingly, and for the first time in a long time, cross party political consensus has broken out in my family! Despite the divisions that were caused by the Indy Ref, we are all going to vote to remain in.

Scott_P said:

SouthamObserver said:

Happy to join you in the Local Hero appreciation society. A wonderful film. So beautifully shot.

My erstwhile colleague worked on it. Pennan is a magical place. Well worth a visit if you are in the area

That whole area of coastline is really worth a visit on a nice sunny weekend, have spent a few weekends doing just that.

nunu said:

Make no mistake the closeness of the result will be ignored by bureaucrats who don't have to worry about elections.

When it comes to EU treaty change there are no key decision-makers who don't have to worry about elections. All the leaders of the member states worry about elections, MEPs worry about elections and thanks to Cameron's defeat over the Commission leadership, the president of the European Commission also has to worry about elections. The only possible exception would be Donald Tusk who heads the Council, but the organization he heads is a collection of heads of member states, so he only has any clout if the various heads of government are simultaneously undecided and ready to be led.

nunu said:

edmundintokyo said:

nunu said:

Make no mistake the closeness of the result will be ignored by bureaucrats who don't have to worry about elections.

When it comes to EU treaty change there are no key decision-makers who don't have to worry about elections. All the leaders of the member states worry about elections, MEPs worry about elections and thanks to Cameron's defeat over the Commission leadership, the president of the European Commission also has to worry about elections. The only possible exception would be Donald Tusk who heads the Council, but the organization he heads is a collection of heads of member states, so he only has any clout if the various heads of government are simultaneously undecided and ready to be led.

Leaders of the member states have to worry about elections, but their internal politics and economics are often vastly different to ours. We will always be out voted in future because we don't share the same currency.

Well, that's a very different claim to the thing about unelected bureaucrats. Of course it's true in any democracy that uses constituencies that the representatives of other constituencies will be worrying about their voters not yours, and often they'll want radically different things.

I re

Estobar said:

asjohnstone said:

They aren't members of the British Polling Council to the best of my knowledge, they have no record of polling on this topic, we can't draw a trend from their previous work. Ignore is my advice

Be a bit careful there though. They are US based. The poll was conducted for USA today.

We tend to 'ignore' polls we don't like ...

I really like the result this poll suggests, but i'm ignoring it.

As i understand it, it's all gathered from questions displayed in mobile apps.

I doubt the validity of this approach.