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Do you think Mr Farage would have adopted that argument had the shout been 'Allah Akbar"?rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
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He was badly positioned.weejonnie said:
Hart yes - but the English Goal - well you don't have much time to react from that distance - it was hit pretty well.ThreeQuidder said:So that's one goal each that should have been kept out.
(That was a VERY good decision by the ref/ linesman for the English equaliser though)0 -
Two seperate witness say he did...SeanT said:
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.0 -
I thought the arrest was some distance from the incident - I might be mistaken.RealBritain said:Graeme Howard, 38, who lives in nearby Bond Street, told the Guardian he heard the man shout “Britain First” before the shooting and during the arrest.
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The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)Richard_Tyndall said:
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.RobD said:
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.John_N4 said:
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?weejonnie said:
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...Scott_P said:@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.0 -
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.0
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If he did shout it, he's dumber than even the average BF supporter.SeanT said:
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
After all, we're not exactly short on ethnic minority MPs.0 -
Awful news about Jo Cox. I hope she recovers.
From the news of the attack it's amazing she survived at all.
Keep fighting girl!0 -
Didn't something similar happen when there was the Swedish vote on the Euro?
I think motive does matter but can be left for a later time. Hope for the best.0 -
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.SeanT said:
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.0 -
Off topic, I really hope that Sir Cliff Richard can sue the hell out of Soutth Yorkshire police and the BBC. The most massive invasion of privacy imaginable.
Oh, and SY Police, again. They should have been disbanded after Rotherham and Hillsborough, now they certainly should be. Does anyone have any confidence in them any more?0 -
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
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Do you think people would be making this kind of statement if he was bearded and shouting Allah Aqbar?rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
This is a terrible tragedy, and probably reflects more that people with severe psychiatric issues are not given appropriate treatment.0 -
We've had MPs murdered by the IRA as well, but most people had the sense not to blame moderate Irish Nationalists.MyBurningEars said:
The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)Richard_Tyndall said:
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.RobD said:
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.John_N4 said:
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?weejonnie said:
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...Scott_P said:@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.0 -
Yes, that more than anything.tyson said:
Do you think people would be making this kind of statement if he was bearded and shouting Allah Aqbar?rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
This is a terrible tragedy, and probably reflects more that people with severe psychiatric issues are not given appropriate treatment.0 -
Mr. Sandpit, hard to disagree with that. South Yorkshire Police do not exactly inspire confidence.0
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Pim Fortuyn is another example.Sean_F said:
We've had MPs murdered by the IRA as well, but most people had the sense not to blame moderate Irish Nationalists.MyBurningEars said:
The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)Richard_Tyndall said:
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.RobD said:
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.John_N4 said:
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?weejonnie said:
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...Scott_P said:@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.0 -
First of all. I've been in tears this afternoon. Then heard about Jo Cox and then more tears. A "man" did this to a defenceless woman. Makes me ashamed of my sex. I pray she recovers.
But we can't ignore "Britain First". Had it been "Allahu Akbar" we know the Shock and Outrage that it would have generated in the Daily Hurrah-For-The-Blackshirts. This appears to be - multiple witnesses - a person allying himself with white power fascists.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the impact on this referendum. But aside from that, what is wrong with our society. "Men" who think manhood is shirt off drunken assault on police and foreigners at a football tournament shaming the entire nation. And now this.0 -
We don't know what he looks like. There is a picture of a shaven headed man who might either be being detained or treated. There was one other victim.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
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There will be a time to consider why this attack took place, whether there are any wider points for consideration or whether this was just a one-off attack by a madman.
This is not that time. TSE says it perfectly.0 -
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I give up.
I've just seen on twitter people claiming it was a false flag attack by Remain to stop Brexit.0 -
To be fair to them, the Mail and the Telegraph were the first to report that he did say it.RochdalePioneers said:First of all. I've been in tears this afternoon. Then heard about Jo Cox and then more tears. A "man" did this to a defenceless woman. Makes me ashamed of my sex. I pray she recovers.
But we can't ignore "Britain First". Had it been "Allahu Akbar" we know the Shock and Outrage that it would have generated in the Daily Hurrah-For-The-Blackshirts. This appears to be - multiple witnesses - a person allying himself with white power fascists.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the impact on this referendum. But aside from that, what is wrong with our society. "Men" who think manhood is shirt off drunken assault on police and foreigners at a football tournament shaming the entire nation. And now this.0 -
Of course they didn't. But they did blame extreme Irish Nationalists.Sean_F said:
We've had MPs murdered by the IRA as well, but most people had the sense not to blame moderate Irish Nationalists.MyBurningEars said:
The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)Richard_Tyndall said:
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.RobD said:
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.John_N4 said:
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?weejonnie said:
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...Scott_P said:@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.0 -
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?0 -
I think this is a key point. Most people can distinguish between the actions of a few and the views of the many. For example, 7/7 was carried out by Muslims. This does not mean anything with respect to how I view Muslims. They weren't representative. Fred and Rosemary West were British. Only a fool would think less of the British in light of their actions.rcs1000 said:
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.SeanT said:
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
While I love the Internet dearly, I think it has debased our political intercourse - it's an endless stream of "apologise for this", "distance yourself from that", "don't associate with them" together with endless variants of 'no true Scotsman'. It really does smack of playground politics in the very worst sense.
I'm going to be so disappointed if people link the actions of this miscreant in any way with the current referendum campaign. Let the countdown begin....0 -
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...0 -
I presume you're being ironic.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
There are, however, already multiple 'False Flag Operation' tweets - no doubt you'll enjoy being quoted as 'proof'......-1 -
Gosh my thoughts are with the family. My wife has the same pair of shoes, and I have taken photos of her with the Shard in the background. I love that building. It says something about his character that he has posted such a wonderful photo, at this moment.Danny565 said:Her husband has tweeted in the last 15 mins....
https://twitter.com/MrBrendanCox/status/743455646197096449
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W.Yorks Police press briefing at 17:00
Britain First a far right political party have condemned the attack on Jo Cox and say it's nothing to do with them0 -
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?0 -
Time to take a deep breath and wait for the facts.nunu said:0 -
John, I think you should lay off trying to make this point. I am prepared to opine that Juncker is not capitalising.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I posted on here almost the exactly same 'thoughts and prayers' line on here; it is a human thing to do.0 -
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."0 -
Don't forget Putin's plot to send his most dangerous hooligans to France to provoke the English into fighting them, thus getting England thrown out of the tournament and disqualified and, in the ensuing anger against Europe for the injustice, virtually guaranteeing Brexit.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
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You are making a tit of yourself dude. Not for now.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?0 -
Chortle.rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."0 -
Maybe Dave just wanted to go somewhere where he could be sure that people were pleased to see him. He's had a pretty brutal few weeks, it can't be easy being vilified morning, noon and night.rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
I'm sure he's having a number of difficult phone conversations with our European friends to boot.0 -
There is another witness in the Telegraph I gave above.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?0 -
Well said. A short period of reflection by everyone is desparately overdue.John_M said:
I think this is a key point. Most people can distinguish between the actions of a few and the views of the many. For example, 7/7 was carried out by Muslims. This does not mean anything with respect to how I view Muslims. They weren't representative. Fred and Rosemary West were British. Only a fool would think less of the British in light of their actions.rcs1000 said:
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.SeanT said:
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
While I love the Internet dearly, I think it has debased our political intercourse - it's an endless stream of "apologise for this", "distance yourself from that", "don't associate with them" together with endless variants of 'no true Scotsman'. It really does smack of playground politics in the very worst sense.
I'm going to be so disappointed if people link the actions of this miscreant in any way with the current referendum campaign. Let the countdown begin....
Laters.0 -
Shhh. That's supposed to be a secret.Casino_Royale said:
Don't forget Putin's plot to send his most dangerous hooligans to France to provoke the English into fighting them, thus getting England thrown out of the tournament and disqualified and, in the ensuing anger against Europe for the injustice, virtually guaranteeing Brexit.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
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Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
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If another report is correct and the police heard him say it while being pinned to the ground, it will be immaterial anyway. What they will want is any more detailed sense of his full motivation. Until then ,any rush to completely disassociate from current political activities is as inadvisable as automatic linkage.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?0 -
I don't think Juncker is capitalising on it at all - a fellow professional has been seriously injured in the line of duty - if he'd said nothing you'd be claiming 'See - Juncker doesn't care what happens in Britain, even when an MP is attacked'.John_N4 said:Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
IF Juncker had used the opportunity to make a political point 'which is why Britain is Stronger in the EU', then yes, that would be capitalising - but he didn't, so he isn't.0 -
I think (or at least I hope) Robert was being rather ironic.TOPPING said:
We don't know what he looks like. There is a picture of a shaven headed man who might either be being detained or treated. There was one other victim.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
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I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?0 -
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.0
-
Since the footie is done, we could switch the discussion to trains?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
0 -
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
0 -
I'm going to see if I can dig out some commentary from other areas of Europe on Brexit. Of course, this is going to challenge my monolingual skills quite significantly. Later all.RobD said:
Since the footie is done, we could switch the discussion to trains?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
0 -
What an awful thing. Like Rochdale, I have been dealing with something very bad on the personal front recently. I've never been one for getting upset when something bad happens to someone I don't know but because I am a bit on the edge at the moment I find myself fighting tears about Jo Cox even though I admit I had never heard of her until today.0
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How did I forget about that as a possible discussion topic?TheScreamingEagles said:
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
0 -
Well he's just so trusted on European matters...rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."0 -
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html0 -
I have a pet hate on here which is when people attack the honest outright federalists in Europe (and in the UK for that matter). We see it a lot with the false claims about Jean Monnet (who never at any time said that the peoples of Europe should be tricked into federalism which is a favourite claim by some). The fact that I share a different vision for Britain and Europe based on my own political views doesn't mean I can't understand or admire those with whom I disagree.RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
The thing I really hate about UK Europhiles is the examples who try to claim nothing is changing or mislead about the objectives of the EU or their own beliefs in an attempt to con the public.
I don't know much about Juncker but I have never seen him claiming to be anything other than a firm and forthright believer in the EU project.0 -
Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.0 -
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?SeanT said:
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Charming
0 -
I thought that was elected dictatorships ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
( Especially rigged elections )0 -
One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
0 -
I think he's being naughty...felix said:
One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
0 -
Whoever did this is a nutter and not representative of anyone but himself.
What we should always do is avoid jumping to conclusions. It turns out, for instance, that the murderer in Orlando may have had some very deep-seated issues around his own homosexuality and that he may not be just a common or garden Isis warrior butcher.
There is a reason that some media outlets do not immediately report that a person is this or that or the other. Just because it is on the Internet, just because it appears plausible, does not make it true. With killings, attempted murders and other attacks the responsible thing to do is to wait. And to pray for the victim(s).0 -
Thanks for this. I didn't see that. This is the Clarke Rothwell who runs a nearby cafe and is described in the Telegraph as believing (sic) that the gunman shot Mrs Cox three times while "in the meantime" stabbing her, and alternatively as stating that he shot her three times before stabbing her (so which is it?), and that as he stabbed her he shouted "Britain First, Britain First, Britain First". He also said that he "understood" that the altercation was "always between the guy carrying the gun and the lady that got shot".RobD said:
There is another witness in the Telegraph I gave above.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
Some of this is clearly secondhand.
Any idea what Mr Rothwell actually claims that he himself saw or heard, firsthand?
0 -
It's the view in Gibraltar.....Charles said:
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?SeanT said:
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Charming
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit
But what would they know......0 -
Who said "The Lord sometimes finds it necessary to do things in his public capacity that in his private capacity he abhors".kjohnw said:
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html0 -
I think an Ed is crap thread is in order. We haven't had one for absolutely ages.TheScreamingEagles said:
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
0 -
Sounds like he was talking about Eurozone discussions. Anyway, I was talking on a personal level.kjohnw said:
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html0 -
Am sorry to hear about Jo Cox. We shouldn't also forget what happened to Gabrielle Giffords in the US.
As to motivation, I wonder whether the Orlando shooting may also have had some impact in giving the perpetrator the idea.0 -
Jack W is unwell.tyson said:Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Any private polling should mirror public polling - if it's being done properly.0 -
He's of an age...tyson said:Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.0 -
Tyson, we had a post a week or so ago, I think from his son, saying that Jack W had been rushed into hospital and nothing more would be heard from him at least for a while. I think OGH has been in touch, but I havn’t seen an update, although as I don’t have this on permananet view I could well have missed something.tyson said:Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.0 -
Why are you so desperate to discredit the eyewitnesses? The whole "understood" business is probably about the witness missing the first moments,..John_N4 said:
Thanks for this. I didn't see that. This is the Clarke Rothwell who runs a nearby cafe and is described in the Telegraph as believing (sic) that the gunman shot Mrs Cox three times while "in the meantime" stabbing her, and alternatively as stating that he shot her three times before stabbing her (so which is it?), and that as he stabbed her he shouted "Britain First, Britain First, Britain First". He also said that he "understood" that the altercation was "always between the guy carrying the gun and the lady that got shot".RobD said:
There is another witness in the Telegraph I gave above.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
Some of this is clearly secondhand.
Any idea what Mr Rothwell actually claims that he himself saw or heard, firsthand?0 -
Was it Jesus?weejonnie said:
Who said "The Lord sometimes finds it necessary to do things in his public capacity that in his private capacity he abhors".kjohnw said:
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html0 -
Sad to hear.Sean_F said:
Jack W is unwell.tyson said:Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Any private polling should mirror public polling - if it's being done properly.0 -
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.CarlottaVance said:
It's the view in Gibraltar.....Charles said:
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?SeanT said:
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Charming
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit
But what would they know......0 -
Well yes.Alanbrooke said:
I thought that was elected dictatorships ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
( Especially rigged elections )0 -
Superb post.SouthamObserver said:Whoever did this is a nutter and not representative of anyone but himself.
What we should always do is avoid jumping to conclusions. It turns out, for instance, that the murderer in Orlando may have had some very deep-seated issues around his own homosexuality and that he may not be just a common or garden Isis warrior butcher.
There is a reason that some media outlets do not immediately report that a person is this or that or the other. Just because it is on the Internet, just because it appears plausible, does not make it true. With killings, attempted murders and other attacks the responsible thing to do is to wait. And to pray for the victim(s).0 -
Yes rereading it I think he was.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think (or at least I hope) Robert was being rather ironic.TOPPING said:
We don't know what he looks like. There is a picture of a shaven headed man who might either be being detained or treated. There was one other victim.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
0 -
My sympathies and prayers go out to Jo Cox and her family.0
-
I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.felix said:
One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.rcs1000 said:
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.RealBritain said:Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
This is a tragedy, for Jo herself, and for her family and friends. My making a bad joke does not diminish that.0 -
@paul__johnson: Jo Cox's maiden speech to Parliament - on the benefits of immigration. 'We celebrate our diversity.'
https://t.co/4U8Dhv9XdC0 -
No, Jesus said "Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and listen to the lamentations of their women."rcs1000 said:
Was it Jesus?weejonnie said:
Who said "The Lord sometimes finds it necessary to do things in his public capacity that in his private capacity he abhors".kjohnw said:
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html0 -
I don't think Farage is racist either. I think UKIP was looking for a picture that conveys immigrants as an invasion. They came across this one that seemed to fit the bill.. It wouldn't work if the picture was of someone who looked like your hard working cornershop owner or the cheery cleaner in your office.SeanT said:
I'm not frightened to call out Islamist nuttery when I see it. Equally I accept the possibility that the far right can be violent, here and elsewhere. Breivik did his hideous killings in peaceable Norway, ffsrcs1000 said:
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.SeanT said:
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.rcs1000 said:Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
It's difficult not to see this as a pivotal moment in the campaign. If it had been a Syrian refugee we know it would have won it for OUT. We discussed these black swans many times. If it turns out it is some eurosceptic madman, eesh.
Today was the first day I was really uncomfortable with the LEAVE campaign. That UKIP poster. It's potent, but... No. If you go on Twitter you'll find it exactly mirrors stills from a nazi propaganda movie. Exactly.
I don't think Farage is a racist. I rather like him. But this was a definite error.
Which is the problem when you treat people as concepts rather than individuals.0 -
Nowhere nears as good as your guide to drugs.SeanT said:If anyone needs cheering up, I'm in the most exquisite boutique hotel. Just divine. With its own private chunk of the Ionian Sea.
The Praia Art Resort. They just brought me wine and cakes with my name written on the plate in raspberry flavored sugar.
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/743438422661021697
I still laugh at your description of Qat as like chewing a privet hedge for the hit of a double espresso.0 -
0
-
Sounds like Abraham Lincoln.rcs1000 said:
Was it Jesus?weejonnie said:
Who said "The Lord sometimes finds it necessary to do things in his public capacity that in his private capacity he abhors".kjohnw said:
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html0 -
I wish the Spanish would read the Treaty of Utrecht.OldKingCole said:
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.CarlottaVance said:
It's the view in Gibraltar.....Charles said:
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?SeanT said:
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Charming
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit
But what would they know......0 -
West Yorkshire Police to make statement at 5pm.0
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Police news conference at 5pm0
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"It's dangerous and probably people will die – and they'll know that. And then they'll pave the way, and ultimately it will be very safe to go to Mars, and it will be very comfortable. But that will be many years in the future,"rcs1000 said:
I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.
What do you think of Musk's comments here ?0 -
Charles said:
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?SeanT said:
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Charming
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
Spain will remember the Falklands.
Cameron would love to send a task force to save his reputation.
Boris would lead the task force.0 -
Farage has just demonstrated his naval abilities....David_Evershed said:Charles said:
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?SeanT said:
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Charming
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
Spain will remember the Falklands.
Cameron would love to send a task force to save his reputation.
Boris would lead the task force.0 -
AFP: French police arrest man who was planning attack on American and Russian tourists...0
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I didn't laugh. Really, he's just not good at jokes.Pulpstar said:
"It's dangerous and probably people will die – and they'll know that. And then they'll pave the way, and ultimately it will be very safe to go to Mars, and it will be very comfortable. But that will be many years in the future,"rcs1000 said:
I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.
What do you think of Musk's comments here ?0 -
It’ll take a task force to save Cameron’s reputation.David_Evershed said:Charles said:
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?SeanT said:
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."rcs1000 said:
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:Charles said:
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?Moses_ said:FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Charming
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
Spain will remember the Falklands.
Cameron would love to send a task force to save his reputation.
Boris would lead the task force.0 -
That is quite honest actually. Leaders hwve.to do unpleasant things like send troops to cause death and be killed.weejonnie said:
Who said "The Lord sometimes finds it necessary to do things in his public capacity that in his private capacity he abhors".kjohnw said:
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html
Leaders have to lie too - especially in war, for the greater good.
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What a disgusting piece of shit, that man !Scott_P said:@paul__johnson: Jo Cox's maiden speech to Parliament - on the benefits of immigration. 'We celebrate our diversity.'
https://t.co/4U8Dhv9XdC0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?rottenborough said:Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Surely the finest system is the D'Hondt system used in our European elections?
European elections would go if we LEAVE the EU.
REMAIN should campaign to save the D'Hondt.
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I think it was in connection about the doctrine of infant damnation or something like that - the point is: A man might oppose you and not be a ruthless enemy, devoid of emotion and utterly pitiless.rcs1000 said:
Was it Jesus?weejonnie said:
Who said "The Lord sometimes finds it necessary to do things in his public capacity that in his private capacity he abhors".kjohnw said:
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"RobD said:
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.Richard_Tyndall said:
Me too.rcs1000 said:
I am.John_N4 said:At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html0 -
Have you read Frayn's Skios, Sean - for some reason I imagined an identity swap farce to be something that you might have encountered on your travels!SeanT said:If anyone needs cheering up, I'm in the most exquisite boutique hotel. Just divine. With its own private chunk of the Ionian Sea.
The Praia Art Resort. They just brought me wine and cakes with my name written on the plate in raspberry flavored sugar.
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/7434384226610216970 -
Why does a newspaper quote what someone who was nearby says about what he didn't see himself and that directly conflicts with what one or more other witnesses say they did see, namely an altercation between two men before Jo Cox got involved?RobD said:
Why are you so desperate to discredit the eyewitnesses? The whole "understood" business is probably about the witness missing the first moments,..
That's absolutely shit journalism, unless someone is quoted as saying "everyone round here believes X, but people are too scared to come forward", which isn't what they're saying here.
There's no need to ask me leading questions.
I am questioning the reports because I know that lies often get put out right at the beginning, nice easy ones to remember - the speedometer in the Princess Diana car stuck at 125mph; Jean-Charles de Menezes wearing a thick jacket with wires sticking out.
What's wrong with the method of questioning something and trying to debunk it before deciding whether to accept it?0
